 Angelina Capron, and also Dana Hadley, kind of administrator, and Diane Isabel, town treasurer. We will hear a presentation from the Berlin Fire Department. What you guys could find going on up. Joe had sent me the proposed budget which should be in front of you. They go down and give the highlights and things like that. Okay. So Chief Dufresne sends his apologies. He got called into work with a building emergency at about four o'clock. He doesn't think he'll be able to make it tonight. So instead, I introduce myself and Deputy Chief Keith Reneiderstein for those that don't know me. And thank everybody, that's Jerry. So we've been working since October or so on this budget and completed it, passed it last night at our business meeting. The highlights are, let's see. Communications is up on our expenditures. The primary reason for the communications being up is that section includes our dispatch with Capital West, Montpelier Police Department. They have an across-the-board every department increase of 9% to their dispatching fees for this next coming year. So that brought us from 43.5 up to 47,000 for what we have to pay to them. We also increased our purchase of radio equipment, another $2,000 to $5,000 for our aging equipment there. The line that we started last year when the Budget Committee was working, we had talked about getting a contingency fund last year for unexpected expenditures such as if one of the trucks decides the pump wants to go south on us, that would be $30,000, $40,000, $50,000 repair right there. So we're starting up a contingency fund this year. We're funding it with $5,000 to start with. We have $8,000 in CDs that is already basically our contingency fund, so it's gonna make $13,000 for this next year. We are offsetting that by increasing the previous budget surplus from what we didn't spend in previous years to $20,000 instead of $15,000. So that levels that out. Overall, the total expenditures is $331,400. From the current year, which is the expenditures of $315,350, it's an overall 4.8% increase. The department itself is going from a department portion income of $60,532 in this current year to overall $63,432. What it's that effectively means is the increase to the town portion is 4.9%, instead of 4.8%. I'm probably looking at it, but I don't see the total amount of the town. The total amount to the town. Yeah, last year it was 254,818. And this year it's 267,968. Town and county. I state, okay. That's what that means. So I'm Jerry Diamantidis and I am the town representative on the board. Have been now for two years, I think. If I may, a couple of comments on the budget. One is going back to last year, we spent half the year with the Budget Committee developing the budget that's the precursor to this. And this is a continuation of that previous year's budget process, if you will. It didn't take quite as long this year because we spent so much effort redesigning it last year. But there are a couple of things I'd like to point out. Operationally, day to day, it's an extremely lean budget. I mean, the equipment is well-worn and I wanna make sure that you understand that the folks at the fire department really recognize that this isn't their money and they do a really good job operationally running the fire department from a fiscal perspective, I believe. But there are two things that I wanna point out and they're at the bottom of the expenditures. 20,000 for capital replacement and 5,000 for contingency. The capital replacement, basically the capital that we're looking at replacing is a truck. At some point, it's going to come to pass in the not too distant future. Some folks say two years, some folks say five years, maybe it's six, maybe it's three. One of those trucks is going to need to be replaced. One truck is 1989. Our two primary response engines is a 1993, which we bought new and a 1989, which we bought used. Which have been maintained extremely well all this time. But should it come to pass that one of those trucks needs to be replaced, it depends on how you do it. It could be $300,000, it could be $500,000. It's not gonna be $100,000. So we've started in the past couple of years to identify this capital replacement fund. Now, we're only putting $20,000 into it. And I would make the case here that that might not be enough. Because at some point, there's going to be a quarter of a million dollar need. Now it's not gonna happen where you need it the same day, but it's gonna have to get made up in short order. And it may be prudent to put more money into this fund than we've allocated in this budget. And I just want to bring that to the board's attention so that as you evaluate what you're looking at here, this may be a little bit short-sighted on funding the capital replacement fund that we have. How much is in that? Is available for that kind of fund? We currently have 90,000 in it. And an engine, I was just looking in this past week, a brand new engine, which is the way we use engines, we should get a new one instead of a used one. And a brand new engine for the style and type that we use is around $450,000. The, in your expenditures, loans, is that interest? Is that, what are the loans? The loans are, was it three years ago now? We purchased a brand new suite of the breathing apparatus, the air packs. And we financed it at the credit union across the street. And that is only the repayment of that loan. That's the annual cost of repayment. So that's principally an interest? Yes, yes. How much longer on that? You wouldn't have to ask me that. I was just thinking about that the other day and I believe it's three or four more years anyway. Just thinking about a lot of when that time comes that should be added to the capital reserve. That was our thoughts. Did we ever talk about the bond? Because there's once in a huge number that's flowed past us in other years. Bigger than what you're talking about. Oh, it can be big, yeah. And I thought we talked about a bond of some sort, if that ever came up. Is that just me remembering it wrong? Well, I think we'd have to figure something out. Right. I mean, yes. I mean, you can't go without a fireplace. I mean, hard to obtain a fireplace, that one. And I think we're doing the same thing trying to save money to our equipment. And we're in the same boat. We don't have enough money saved. But we all got it. There's a little bit of that pay me now or pay me later. Exactly, yeah. And to tell you the truth, I'm not sure which is more efficient. If you float a bond for the whole thing and hammer it down with bigger payments because you've already made the purchase or you scroll a little away because maybe someday, maybe we're gonna need this money. And then, you know, it's half of what you need and now you've got a little of both going on instead. And I think that's the road we're taking. We're taking a relatively light amount but in line with the other line item expenditures, if you will. So it's not an annual big ticket item with the idea that it would be half as much of a bond as you might have to take out when the time comes. Apologies if you mentioned this already, but something that we saw last time was Diane looking at the lifespan of all of these equipment and us essentially paying what that would be broken up by year. So that we're essentially paying the same thing every year. The five or 10 year plan, five year plan that you guys are working on, supposes that as well. It's just that as we're, as they're locking down that five year plan, we're at almost at the point where we need to start buying the big thing. So we have to sort of pass that first. And then once we do that, then we can look at budgeting that's going to be sustainable. And we probably, if we do it right, we probably won't have to have this big bite the next time around. Getting started and stuff. But that, but the other engine is going to have to be replaced in six years? Yeah, that's, you notice the numbers in 1989, 1993. The National Fire Protection Agency basically says frontline engine should be used for 20 years. We're past that. We're well past the typical use of life. We've been able, we put off purchasing a brand new one by purchasing a used one six years ago, five years ago. Six or seven. Something like that. And that one served us well, but it's still, it's 1989 is what we purchased. So yeah, we were talking about that Monday night. And my feeling is sooner rather than later. You know, in the two year timeframe, not the five year timeframe. The problem is by, by funding a, by having a capital fund that you can pay for this equipment with, you guys start funding the capital fund the day you buy the new truck. You're right. Well, that would be one way to do it. Of course, it's the opposite of depreciation. You do it from the other end and you're building up for when you need to replace. So tell me a little bit, why is new better than used? Are used just be to death or? They can be pretty beat. The, the cost of, I was just looking at some of the used ones today on the market. 2005 or so used is about $100,000 compared to the 450 that's new. What are we going to get out of an engine that's already 10 to 15 years old? We're going to get another five to 10 years as compared to, we can make a new one last 20, 25, 30 years. So, and the UCI, they could be really beat. You know, we've been lucky and both of what we got, we got our tower used from Hanover and they treated it very well and we got the other one used, I think from Hanover as well and the engine and they treat their equipment well. So when you say used, you're not talking to a three years old, you're talking 10 or 15 years old. Yes, really used. Yeah, they don't have five year old used engines on the market. Yeah, who would sell it? It's not like a car. One of those companies that just went out of business on midwest. But you would know if they were there. I had a question when Joe was here, I was a little while ago. We had talked about the audit and that this is an audit year. And we had also talked about the, maybe the town and the fire department could kind of share resources and we would include it. We're getting ready to release an RFP for audit services. And I think now's the time should I include the fire department in that. We were talking about that the other day at the board meeting for the fire department. And if correct me if I'm wrong, we were, I believe it was pretty unanimous that that would be a good idea. That was a different thing. That was having Dana, Diane handle our reports. No, there was that, but there was, we thought there was also just a follow-up report. We sent out an RFP for the audit and we've got one response at this time out of three. Father Yosef had values, the other one who hasn't given us a number back yet. Okay, well this would be, I think probably for next, starting next year if we do that. And I know you do them every other year on the odd years. Correct. But I just kind of revisit that and refresh my memory of where we were on that. And the other thing I was gonna ask you about is the idea that Diane could do your accounting for you. And I, again, I mean you're not gonna save an awful lot of money, but whatever you say. One of the other things is that goes back to the town and it doesn't go to somebody else, you know. We were, we talked about that Monday night and we were all quite favorable to having Diane do the books instead of an outside source. The question we had was, is it above the board enough? And we thought, some of the people thought maybe we should talk to council and see what they think about that. And we do, one of the things that we were thinking is if she is doing the books, the audits would be included with the town at that time. So we wouldn't have to do an audit or reviews. Would that be the case? I don't think so. I think it would still be separate. But again, you bring a good point that is something I would ask legal to advise me on. And if you recall, the reason that the fire department is doing the audit was because the select board asked them to. I mean, it's best practices anyways, but if all of the books and all the finances are gonna be sitting over here anyways. Yeah, I mean, I guess it would be a separate audit to a certain extent and that would be a separate account. I guess I'm just thinking that really the town shouldn't absorb the additional costs for a fire department audit. However, I think your economies of scale would make it more attractive. That's my opinion, so yeah. I think you have to have a separate audit. And an audit is really, I cringe every time the audit bill comes in because it's just always a lot. However, you're assuring your citizens that you're doing things directly. But even though it could be a separate audit in that case, including it in the same RFP. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, would be, I think you'd see an economy of scale. Exactly, that's what I'm thinking. You'd have a better pricing structure then. I think we should talk about, because you have to send one out. And maybe I'm premature asking you, but I just happen to think that so well. But yes, we're gonna need to send one. I think we should talk about that because we really didn't get satisfactory responses to the RFP as far as we were concerned. We were hoping for three responses. We got one with one saying they're gonna give us a response at this time. So, now who did, was that Father Gil? Father Gil was the one who hasn't given us the response back, that's who we're using at the moment. I think by having a county in-house, it sort of, it links them together. Because sometimes in the past, we've needed information and needed information. We're available anytime you want to talk to us. That's all right, in-house. It would just go from her separately. Right, and rather than going to our outside company, and I think it would be more seamless that way too. I mean, it would be separate. You'd have to have some sort of separate module. But the source would be, I am. Right. It'd be like the water division, the sewer division. Same, same, yes, you're right. But this handled differently obviously because you're private entity. Right. So, let's keep talking and let me know. Yes. Let's let you know. I'd like to help you. I'm not trying to torn you into the end. Thank you. Do you know the deadline for getting the fire department numbers to post-marry so that they can get on the ballot? I don't. It's mid-January, I believe. That would happen at the end of the morning. I can certainly get that date. But I don't anticipate you'd have too much. I remember writing it's January 20th. You think they'd have some numbers. Maybe you should work here. She has to have it so many days in advance that she didn't. Yeah. You said the communications went up 9% but you only went up 70% on the ballot? Yes, that was what we did is it was a little bit rounded on this current year's budget and that changed the number from 9% to 70%. What do you do with the, how does the carryover work? I should know, but in other words, are you saying here that you had 20,000 left over from the operating budget last year? Is that what you're saying? That's the surplus. Yeah, we had a surplus for the last couple of years combined that we're able to apply. We, on a standard, have put 10,000. So we have a baseline in the account. We have a standard of 10,000 that we carry over from one year to the next year to the next year. We call that fine balance. So the $20,000 that was left over in the budget sound like broken record, back to you going back to your loan? If we could have some fund balance left over and pay that loan off, then take the $30,000 and start putting it in the capital budget. So you're actually putting $55,000 a year in. You'd look pretty good in three or four years towards the trunk, because all it's on my mind without increasing your budget. So get rid of all that interest. Right, right. Enroll, but don't reduce your budget, just add it to the capital budget. Add it to the capital budget, correct. Deal with the debt before you start stocking money away that's not earning any interest. Exactly. OK, yeah, that makes sense. So I'm just looking at the saying, if you had a carry or a fine balance again this year, you probably could just about wipe that debt out. That's all. And then you could start stocking away $50,000 a year. Good advice. I've noted down for it. Is this ready to go to Rosemary now, or do you anticipate any other changes? We don't anticipate any other changes. Thank you. Thank you. We'll be in time. All right, thank you. Jeremy, would you please? Thank you. See, are you going to be there at this time? Yeah, and this is for you. Why don't you just, I didn't hear you. No, you're not good to see that, all right? You're just too deposit. Yeah. Thanks, Jeremy. Sure thing, Jeremy. Good night. Good night. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. No, they spent, they spent, it wasn't me. I came out the very last meeting. They spent a lot of time doing, forecasting, like looking at five years. It's not something that they've done in the past. And Joe isn't here, but it was Joe's vision to make sure that that's something that we're doing. And then Jerry actually taking, essentially taking that responsibility for doing that five-year plan. That was just like Joe said, this is what we need to do. Jerry said, I'm on it. Yeah, because we just heard story after story and didn't get information. It didn't get information. Actually, I started to tell them how much nicer it was and thought about it. My first time, I remember they came in basically with no paper. He said, you know, we need to end it up. Dictionary will. What does water mean? Does that make you want to name or no? They did a very nice job. Okay, the administrative budgets. Yes, I guess I'll start with the income or the estimated revenues. And again, this is always something that my autumn is always to kind of try to go low and when it comes in more happy. If I'm too high, then I'm not happy. But we are projecting an additional $18,350 this year. I guess maybe some of the bigger changes. Is the pilot is more than what we had expected in previous years. So we did raise the pilot. And most of that is the pilot increase. I can go over these if you want to listen to me talk or there's nothing other than that that we really have done it too exciting. The pilot this past an FY19 pilot is $193,000. They received the pilot, which is really good. I'm always, you know, always cringing because when you hear what the legislature meets and the governor's saying, you know, pilot's going to go down. But so far, you know, it's been good the last three years. And our revenues were last and at the end of 18. Do you remember what they were as far as increased over what we had projected? It was $192,000, something like that. Something like that. Yeah, so. And this year's $193,000. Yeah, so that was... Did the pilot go to the hospital? No, yes, part of this do the hospital as far as the psychiatric hospital? Yeah. That was the beginning. That's what I was thinking as always. You know, and of course the other buildings that they have here too. And that varies with the state. And they have a formula of what they have. So we now really know what we get. But the last few years have been pretty generous, I will say, with the state. And they've been living up to the contract? Yes, the $25,000. And the contract for the state to the $25,000 they have. Yeah, I do have contact there. And what I do now is I build them in May of each year. And the last two years has worked out well. And does the dispatch part of that agreement ever come into play? I mean, it just sort of bypasses us, right? We don't. It doesn't. They're still doing it for free. And so it's a good benefit for the town. We don't really know about it. 20 years? 20. Yeah. Yeah. And how you looked up, I think it was Barry Towns' dispatch. For the just police, it was about $87,000. But I mean, look at what the fire department said. Yeah, and see what the fire department said. What the fire department said. What the fire department said. Yeah, that was a shock. We got that number on Monday night. Yeah. I mean, that's quite an agreement. And there's not that much that you can do at the fire department level over here to complain about it, but. So the dispatch is really very significant. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Even though we don't see it in our books. Then we had it before for some other reason. That's a dispatch, a free dispatch. Good police. Goods we asked for. I think that was through, yeah. I can remember that. But ambulance, that's their problem. And fire officers, they're wrong. So we really don't have, we never paid for it for quite a while. Well, we've been paid for a fire department. Right. No police, no ambulance. Well, you pay for the ambulance one too because you pay the police. I just said, I just said that. I said it's on us. No. I wonder if that is, isn't that on the budget to talk to Barry Town? That the ambulance contract, yes. We need to talk. We need to have a discussion on that. Well, that's for later tonight. What's the surgeon's zoning revenue? I see 22,000 where we had 225 and we had 7,500 budgeted. Licenses and fees, which page? Yeah, zoning. Are you talking zoning? Where's 10,000 now? No, no, no. I mean, I'm, I see that the budget we just level funded it, or level your market there, but the actual for fiscal year 2018 is almost three times. Well, and, you know, and that's a, that's a good thing in that we got, we received more than what we expected. And he's talking expenses? He's talking that we received 225, 63 rather than the, as compared to we only, well, last year we only anticipated 75. Did they raise your fees a little too? They raised, well, they, that was a couple of years ago, but I think we did not realize we were going to have the activity that we had. Okay. And we are having a lot of activity. And I think we're going to also be able to bring in more than 10,000 and FY19, but again, it's conservative. Sure. Yeah. And we had, I mean, we had several accounts that we brought in more than what we had budgeted for income, which is I think a good thing, rather than the other way around. The expense side of things, the administrative budgets have an increase of $47,000. Again, in these budgets are salaries, which were set at 2%. And I guess I'll point out some of the, the highlights other than the salaries and the fixed costs that we, again, the pension and the insurances, we still do not have the insurance figure from, from Allegiance, from the health insurance. Well, until the fiscal year. And so we will not have that until July. Okay. I'm going to keep asking you that because I never remember that. Okay. They're not a calendar year. The VLCT is a calendar year. Okay. And the health insurance. So we're, we're, we're again, what we're doing, what we always do is just kind of have our best guest in it. We have decreased the telephone line. I'm happy to tell you in that the phones that we have now are paid for. So all we have is the service to pay for. So that's saving us $2,500 for the year. It's the contract. It's the contract. Ends December 18th. And it's just going to, we're going to be per month. I don't think we can do any better. Any other place. So, so we owe the phones now. Yes. Okay. That was the biggest cost. To get a, to go back, several people said to me, can we go back to landlines? And that, the cost to do that was just under $15,000. There's a lot of voice over IP phone providers out there. There's not just this group, which we did not really have a wonderful experience with, at least on the cost side. You know, I think that's improved. The salesman, I would agree it's not, is, but I've kind of bypassed him. And so, I think we've had some good response and getting the phone system so that it does what we want. There is an apartment that would like the phone system to wash the floors, but it just doesn't. Should we put that up to bid again? You know, I don't think I'd recommend it because right now I don't think you're going to do any better financially wise. And it's serving, it really, I think works other than when the internet goes down, which is a pain in the neck. Or our server has a blip or something. That's the problem. You know, but, you know, I don't think that's going to, I just don't think we'd really benefit that much from it, Brad, to do it. I would certainly do it if the board told me to do it, but I don't think I would. Yeah. Basically a powerful license of this program. I mean, yeah, it's the software. It's the monthly fees. Right. Just the monthly, you know, all the little things that it does for us at each individual company. We've jumped through all the hoops that were started. But there's a lot of companies that provide that for us. I think that's what we're doing. Yeah. Let's see, meetings and elections, that has gone down because we only have one election in this budget. You did put in for a computer and you continued to do it. Right. The, the, I'm just thumbing through and make sure I don't. Oh, okay. Well, the ambulance service is up $10,000. We're going to talk about that later, but we have budgeted using the figure for the next fiscal year. The ambulance service is up $10,000. We're going to talk about that later, but we have budgeted it using the figure for the next fiscal year. The ambulance service, I always have to think about this. We have, they're basing it on 2,847 citizens. Seven-eighths of that is assigned to Barrie Town. So 25, 26 times $36, I mean 15 cents. It's about 91,004 of Barrie Town. And then Northfield is the remainder of the citizens. And Dianne, remind me what it was. Yeah. We said, you know, we're making a guess at 28. Yeah. And then Northfield is the remainder of the citizens. And Dianne, remind me what it was. Yeah. We said, you know, we're making a guess at 28. Yeah. We're making a guess at $28. Right. And that's maybe low, but we're hoping that would be out. And I'm hoping to hear a more firm figure from Jeff, one of these days. So right now, we're budgets. So that's up from 90,600 to 101,423, based on our figures. We had put into the capital budget. The capital budget is actually down 85,000. We had put into the capital budget. The capital budget is actually down 85,000. But what we don't know is what you want us to put in highway equipment and structures. We used 172,000 based on Dianne's spreadsheet that she talked about a couple of weeks ago. And that's, but, again, that's not a firm number. That's what we felt was a good number to put in there for now. We had the traffic lights last year of 25,000 this year. We have 10,000 in there. And that is for anticipation of having to replace the server. We've got 15,000 in there. 10,000 that would be for the server. And then the other 5,000 we said would be, was it 15? Yeah, capital budget is 15. Okay. And so 10,000, the server 5,000 was doing a building study that you were talking about. That's right. And again, this is thinking in the future. I don't think any of us would really qualify or I'm not qualified to really plan for the future for the building. The building is going to have to be addressed at some point. It's not going to happen next year or the year after and I'm probably not going to see it. But I think it might behoove us to start thinking about a committee to work on the building and also maybe having some professional help to draft up some plans for the building. That does not have to happen this year. There are obviously we're bursting at the seams but it works such as it is. Over years it's been patches here, patches there and I think it would be make more sense to have someone put it together, it knows what they're doing. So like basically it has to maybe a feasibility study with some sketches and some square footage planning as to what you really need for a building. I agree. That's what I'm thinking. And I'm not even sure if it's going to be this building. No, I understand. How is the mall coming in with their planning on that? The mall, the town center designation is really ramped up now that our plan is approved. And zoning is going to the voters in March, our zoning plan and to be, we're assuming it's going to be approved. I'm also talking about that in a little bit too. So there's a lot of plans going on in the mall and as far as as you know the gentleman came in a couple weeks ago and talked about the assisted living facility that's going there. There are a few other things I think on their plate. I think they're really actively working on the town center designation. It's looking with things in place. Everything's getting more and more in place. We've been meeting every two weeks with my rushman, Tom and I. And I think it's been a lot longer than we thought it was going to be. I think it's starting but I think we're moving forward. And again, that is one idea of having town offices over at that the mall. Having them. The only issue is the vault. Well, I mean you can't move that. Again, and that's why we'd have the feasibility study. The vault. You've tried to move that vault. I mean obviously you need to be able to get into the vault. I mean, yeah, the clerk would have to have somewhere to store records that was met all the requirements. I think what you'd be asking for for NIRP is a space plan. Okay, thank you. And what they do is they figure number of people, number of offices, number of restrooms, and they come up with the total square footage. Then there'll be a few sketches for you showing your different right processes. How much money's in the Equipment Fund now? In the Equipment Fund right now. Okay, we have you're talking like from I see that was the one we budgeted for last year, the first year we budgeted. I gave you something similar today. 157.712 is actual for 2018, so is that what we carried in there? Let me look at that before I can refresh my memory here. That is what we actually have spent. Yeah, that's what we spent on the truck. On that new truck. Yeah, and that was in the 18 budget. You were looking more at the 233.196. Yeah. Okay, out of that 233.196 right now we have 138.7 left, but that is for we have front of the money for the culvert. Right. And so that's where that came from. And we will be getting I anticipate that our total cost for the Merrill Lake Road culvert is in the $35,000 range, which I guess means that we have and we have to talk about the excavator point, but it should mean that we have something like 190,000 left. I would say that after the anticipation but right now for the Merrill Lake culvert we have 144,583 that we spent. We know we're going to spend more. Right. And even just despite the fact that we have a grant on this one, we have Richardson Road to contend with. We're not going to get a grant. So if we've already spent this much on Merrill Lake, what are we going to spend on Richardson Road? Well, you're going to get 90% of that from the grant. How much it going to be in all, do you think? We have we have not gotten the I should know that because we did did the thing and I can't remember what the figure is. Richardson Road is going to be more, right? I'm not sure of that. We haven't gotten the engineering finished on that. So I guess that's my point because I don't know how much of this 233 we should be holding for Richardson Road or obviously we'll be spending $30,000 on this. We have a few things going with that line. Richardson Road and then what that's what's going on in the back of my head. Yeah. So when we're talking about how much we should fund next year. We may have to not do Richardson Road in 19 if we have depending what we do with the excavator. Is that a risk of collapse or failing? Because that's a much bigger problem if that one fails in Merrill Road. Yes. Because you've always can hire if you need an excavator you always can hire one or have someone come and do a move a culvert or something like that. Is it ready to collapse? No. However, it needs attention and the longer we wait the worse it is. And we had talked earlier about slip lining. I was told the other day that they would not allow us to slip line and I will have John Grenier come in to talk to you about that one. He is ready to do that. I guess it is. I'm not thinking it's going to be and maybe I'm a little too optimistic but I don't think it's going to be at the same level that Merrill Lake Road was. It's not big. It's a big culvert. Two culverts or just one? Just one. It's one big one. Yeah. And I can't tell you how big but it's pretty big. And I was there with a hydrologist last fall and he thought that we didn't need one quite that big. Again, that's our look at the engineer. It's not the cost of the culvert. It's putting it in that's expensive. You know? Yeah. If there's a you'll need to put it in there now probably better off just keep it eight because it costs less to You're probably right. But the air in there does put gravel in there. So we have that cost that we don't know what it is and hopefully maybe we'll have a little better idea before we finalize the budget. The excavator was total. We're going to get $37,000 from the insurance. We had talked a little bit about putting an RFP we think maybe a used machine would be the way to go perhaps. Diane found the invoice from the the current excavator that we purchased in 2010. That was $75,000. It had 403 hours on it when we bought it. And then we asked that too. You did and I don't I can't $4,000. I think so. $4,000. So that's $360 hours a year. Yeah. And I think that you had mentioned in the RFP that you were thinking of maybe having an excavator of the $250 hours is that the good figure or is that the reason that 250 came up is the one that Tim won had to $250. Oh, okay. That's where that came from. That's where the 50 came from. Okay, that's why I have it in my head. Yeah. Which is 250 hours a lot of hours? Yeah. I don't think so. Yeah. $34,000. Not that much. Not really. I mean, I'm trying to think one greater when they traded or sold it $14,000 hours a day. So the answer, I mean, Tim had the salesman had this great deal that we could at least purchase and so forth. But again, we're trying to kind of stay away from doing things like that for committing ourselves to five years. It would be nice if we could find a used excavator for the thousand hours and buy it for $80,000 and take the $35,000 with insurance money and pay the rest out of the capital budget. That's all that I was thinking. Yeah. I was trying to see if there was enough money there for that plus the risk of smoking. Maybe not quite, but maybe we can, we do have an equipment fund. I don't know what that has in it. The reserve fund, I'm thinking of, it doesn't have that much in it, does it? You talking about the highway? Yeah. It doesn't have, I don't have that right here. No, I don't. I didn't think to ask you. Sorry. Still, we're talking maybe 20,000 there. We could spend it, obviously. Right. I'm just saying what would help towards, so maybe it might be close, but maybe we could do something. I guess where I was going with all that is should we change this equipment fund at $200,000 so we could enough money to do an excavator or something. That's where I was going with that. So instead of the 172 bring that to 200, which, yeah. The 2018 level. Well, did you want to change the RFP so we can put it up in like more hours? No, that's what I'm saying. I think that we could we could get an RFP for a size machine with up to 1,000 hours on it. Well, again, the question was the warranty too. Right. And I think once you get over 500 hours, you're probably not going to find any warranties, but 250 is, that's just a demo unit. Exactly. And I think that's probably the one that's just a demo unit. Exactly. And I think that's what that John near was, was a demo unit. So we could say less than 500? Yeah. Probably less. Yeah. And see what we get, but if we if we increase that line out into $200,000, we should have enough money after we get reimbursed for Mirror Lake or an old tank set for 200. I'm asking everybody's opinion about that. I think it's I think it's a good idea. Can you put up your RFP for the excavation and it's 500 hours, you can take it and say it has to have a certain warranty with it. Yeah. Then we'll just add that into a possible machine. Correct. It doesn't seem like we spent all that much for as far as repairs for the excavator I mean that really doesn't have that many hours. Well, Donald's got the 390 get it, but there's a commentary I saw about the other day. It's got a 7-year date. I mean the other thing is I think we have money to hire people. They have to tear it apart if we have to. I think I don't think we need it. It'd be hard to get the administrative budget once you have the money that we could answer or any other suggestions. There is one new computer in there it's for me. Otherwise now all the other computers are replaced this is why the building was in the last two years. It might be next to the oldest after that. Right. Yeah, mine's the oldest. Yours is the oldest. Mine's the oldest. Yeah. Yeah. The zoning telephone item went up by quite a lot. It's a 6-mile by a lot. That's why 650 to 1200. That is Tom's phone because I think we're putting more of his cell phone on that. Yes. Yeah. We're putting Tom's cell phone in that. Yeah. Right now I guess our cell phone he's using while I look and see what I'm talking about here. I'm not sure why that's 1200. I'm going to look into that. That seems high. Maybe not. I don't think so. 100. Yeah. Probably not $100 a month. Okay. Yeah. It looks big as you look at it but if you put it over that. Yeah. You're right. You're right. Okay. Is that right? Yeah. We really should bring them on the same plan. I don't know if it would save us money but it would be easier for us because right now it's AT&T. Okay. The AT&T plan we have is for municipalities just to make you aware because when we have to replace the phone we can't just go to AT&T. We have to go through that service and we have to call them because we do get a special price. But the reason that we're with AT&T is that Tim says he doesn't have the service. It was Tim because his service on Verizon at his house which is why. Because Tom doesn't care one way or the other. No. And the police department has Verizon with the state the state recommends everything to them. Yeah. I'm just thinking I mean I have three lines for less than a hundred. I mean obviously it's a different sort of the different sort of account. Yeah. Well they have actually three lines there's two for highway and one for Tom but all together it should be less than I mean that's my instinct anyways. Well I think it's because of the data. Well then there's the data. Then there's the data. How much of the data do they use? I mean I guess I could look in the bills right? I could certainly get it for you Jeremy but I don't be a quota. This is Is there an AT&T bill in there? Not in there one. Oh okay. Yeah that's right. Let me I will email it to you Jeremy okay? Okay. Thanks. When you're talking about data you're just talking about files and stuff not just talking. No not talking not texting just any time they download it and you know check the news or look at the internet on their phones. Right that's I was just thinking that was that was what I wanted to look at. Yeah. I don't remember seeing that in any of the bills that it was too terribly but I think that we're paying for a level but maybe we're different at using which is I understand. I was thinking it was $45. Just for that alone? Yeah. They don't all three have it but Jim has it. The main phone it's kind of a plan that the main phone pays more and then the others are less. So that's it for the budget meeting? Yeah. I'll move to the close to that I want you to turn on the budget here. All right. Regularly scheduled select board meeting from the town of Berlin to order for Thursday to December the 6th to my far left is Pete Kelly my left is Wayne Lamberton and my right is Jeremy Hansen Angelina Capron and with us also is Dana Hadley our town administrator and Diane Isabel our town trader and I'm Brad Town and we will start with additions or changes to the agenda data. Yes. I'd like to add a discussion for the Recreation department snowblower in public COVID hearing none Treasurer's report Diane. Okay. The audit is rocking up finally and it's supposed to be done by December 1st but it's not quite done yet. I'm anticipating within the next week or so because after that we do want to have the auditor come in and do the presentation. I haven't heard anything good better or different. I'm sure there will be anything but beyond that I haven't really heard anything. We're not aware of any issues or. Okay. And those little bills so we'll move to the ordinance of abuse of town roads or snow bills and ATVs. Yeah. For the approval. You print out this so they can just read it when they do the policies. I don't know yet. Thank you. I'm going to find this as soon as she gets out there. Okay. And on the ordinance for the town use of town roads I think that you've had a few public hearings. You've had several people that have given you their input on different issues. I have not written the ordinance because I'm waiting for the board to either approve it or not approve it and as far as use of the roads and as far as use of the roads and so I guess that's where I am just waiting the board is going to say yes or no and then what further stipulations would be in the ordinance. Again we'd have to about this all Well, how would you like to do it? No, I mean what you said is right but I think we should have attacked it a little bit differently. Probably. So I guess what comes down to is how does the board feel about allowing use on certain roads in the town so that the ATVers and the snowmobillers can take and get their see if they can get their trail system set up. So I guess what it comes down to is do we want to do this or not or do we want to take in limit use or just have a idea of just what roads were allowed to use. When you say that it means that we'd bypass the ordinance but we would do Well, what we should have done was we should have had put the ordinance in first and then did the roads. What we're doing is the ATV and the clubs wanted to know if we would allow it and we weren't sure one way or the other so we started kind of on the back side of it. So why don't we start it the right way it can be an ordinance that lets us then fill the ordinance. Well, I think what the ATV are looking for is or the snowmobilers the clubs are is will we allow the use of certain roads in the town of Berlin if we do then they can go and get their trail system put in if we don't then they're basically out of luck. So what we're doing I think what we're trying to do here is just to allow the to have a vote to allow to tell the clubs yes allow use or no we will not and that is where we're kind of at right now. But I think just another little input on that when this all came about it was mainly just to get the snowmobil trail back open and then we kind of got attacked by the ATV clubs and they wanted to join in and have like a dual trail going through and I was like I was kind of skeptical with that at first because I knew we were going to run but really mainly just trying to get the snowmobil trail through there and understand that the ATV is a whole different issue that's a whole different issue and vast doesn't really want to have a lot to do with the ATV club but with the snowmobil club it would only really be open that you can only ride the snowmobil trails from December 15th to April 15th and that's weather permitting sometimes you're not on the snowmobil trails until 8th and then you're done in March so it's really only like a couple month time period well it's like everything is weather dependent it's on weather depending and I understand the skepticism on the ATV that I really do it's a whole different situation right there that's more like a year around in the spring when it's muddy out snowmobiles it's only when there's snow on the ground so the other thing I question about we're not going to do it that way I guess but if we were to vote on an ordinance first that would be another 60 days of another so we want to would we revisit that later? well if we take if we we still we still have to go through the ordinance process so basically I think tonight it's just to let the snowmobil clubs know one way or the other they can use the roads specific roads? specific roads in this area in just sections of the roads not going up the whole right what we've talked about there so I guess the motion I'll be looking for is are we going to allow use of some of the roads or are we going to not allow use of some of the roads so I guess one thing that I'd be interested in hearing how everybody feels about is there is a section of road here without it they can't build the trail anywhere and that is from the culvert in the shed road yeah at the end of shed road under the interstate to Berlin Pond Road and if we're not going to give them the ability to use that piece of road they can't have any trails because they can't cross the interstate the other way so I mean I'm in support of allowing that but I think you know they've got some work to do to figure out the rest of their trails but I mean if they knew that they could use that thousand feet approximately of road then they could go out and get to work and see if they could get permission from Lamb Norris to build the trail so we would give them permission to do so to be able to obtain permission from the whomever and that would only have to be the snowmobile but it would only have to be during snowmobiles you could say listen we don't really want ATVs on our roads snowmobiles will be okay from December 15 on these sections but I wouldn't like to be able to ride my ATV over to Mark's house and stuff you know you know that's up to the police I'm with if they're going to enforce anything like that well I I agree with Wayne we should give them where we shouldn't squelch the possibility of them finding trails on private property if we allow them the thousand feet or whatever it is cross town road on the west side I have to the intersection of Pinterbyte South over to Culvert the middle of Culvert it's approximately across directly across from the dry hydrant that's where we get on the road so we'll say from the dry hydrant to the intersection with Pinterbyte South I mean we've got to go through the ordinance process to do that that's going to be too late for this snowmobile season it's too late at this point anyways we know it was going to take place but by passing this ordinance it'll give you guys a year to try to not go on doors not go on doors and try to get a trail basically that's the way I look at it I think that that's without that peace they can't do anything the other thing I wanted to question actually for the snowmobile folks is that if they do get permission from other people does this require a renewal every year they do the forms that past have they have yearly ones and they have until people like the panel could sign one until you don't want to use it anymore it's usually a yearly basis but we try to get permission forms until they say no so it would stay open they want you to leave just not enough to go knock on the doors every year could be 50 property ownership I'm just thinking the ordinance is however you want to word it yeah I would take probably for the town at least that section of road should be yearly I want to make a motion to go forward with the ordinance allowing for use by snowmobiles of town roads specifically I guess I don't know that this is correct but specifically approximately a thousand feet of road on cross down road from the tri-hydrant to turnpike south for snowmobiles only so I guess we'd need to go and do an ordinance before we actually approve that section yeah but basically you're saying you want to take and let them know that we'll do that so it's a signal and with a yearly renewal renewal I'll prepare that for your next meeting but I'll send it to you before because I want to make sure it's worded correctly that would be most clearly defined in the ordinance we can also look back at what we had before and I think there's also model I'm just worried about that I'm just worried about making sure I got the dry-hydrant and the west side of the road and you know you know you can look at other towns but other because it vasts in every town you can look what agreements they have with other towns as well I mean I can do well I can even get some of that information for your day if needed thank you Josh you don't need to I can do it so you probably have enough to do the discussion of I don't think this ruffles anybody's feathers I think you're right I think that if there's going to be any connections between trails it has to happen here I still personally don't think that Brookfield Road and Black Road are good options for a number of reasons but this doesn't consider that any other discussion hearing none all those in favor those opposed portion carries no you just got right the board is dated beautiful all again no I guess you yeah you're going to see a thing in the report form you got a piano or something thank you I got a piano it was left for the price they're trying to get rid of the piano so okay yeah at least you didn't have to worry about it that would be it it was one of the conditions of sale can you renewal of the ambulance contract dated the ambulance contract expires June 30 of 2019 and in the contract we were given an option to extend the contract for an additional two years and we need to notify Berrytown if we're going to do that before January 1st what's the step in the increase that's right we're going from 30 I'm sorry I'm looking at the wrong line 33.79 per capita and that's considering 2,500 people 25.26 to 36.15 per capita for FY 20 and the following year FY 21 goes to 38.68 so this year it's going up a little over $2.50 and the same for the following year so it's about $6,000 a year an increase over the next two years and this decision is for two years it isn't there's no there's no option for just doing one year no I will say that they have given us very good service last time we put this out to bid Berrytown was the only bidder I move that we enter into a contract extension with Berrytown and Bill second any further discussion so as long as we're extending the contract that was here we're not we're not required to follow the RFP process no no because you had we had agreed to the two year extension which we had taken care of that in the last contract yeah okay any other questions all those in favor all right aye those opposed motion carries I will let Berrytown now oh you have three sets of minutes to yeah okay I'm looking at it here did you yeah mine ends mine ends right after the Berrytown ambulance agreement it was I sent you I sent you two packets this time and because I added the Berrytown ambulance so probably should have just redone the whole thing okay Monday good idea at the time right on yeah Monday October 5th earlier alright I'm just looking on the administrator on the October 15th one in the long long narrative with the public hearing just the name spelling correction down in the fourth from the bottom line this is Jerry Diamantidis mm-hmm this is the J thank you rather than the G I'm impressed I can't even say his name let me spell it Jerry yeah yeah motion on those no to approve the minutes for the October 15th 2018 select board meeting with the previously no change second in the other discussion all those in favor I motion carries we'll do a lot of housekeeping tonight yeah the Thursday November 1st minutes another name correction under public hearing third line down this is Shea Miller this is Shea's S-H-E-A thank you I missed that maybe but I I thought you did so let me let me check into it and I will correct the the agenda you're mistaken yeah so you're finished I think it's okay any other changes to that all those and a motion to pass move to approve the November 1st 2018 select board minutes with the previously no to change second any other discussion on those hearing none those in favor those opposed motion carries and the minutes for Thursday November 29th the time is wrong on that one I'll fix that what's that oh yeah yeah motion on those so moved hear a second second still reading any other discussion on those hearing none okay hearing no other discussion all those in favor all right those opposed motion carries and approval of licenses permits and vouchers to approve general fund accounts payable warrant number 19G11 checks 18662 to 18711 in the amount of 224 130 dollars and 98 cents also Northfield savings payment NSN 19-16 in the amount of 5,970 dollars and 53 cents also payroll warrant number 19-11 for payroll from November 11th 2018 through November 24th 2018 in the amount of 49,588 dollars and five cents second any further discussion hearing none those in favor all right those opposed motion carries town administrator for data sure I think I told you what I know about the downtown designation speaking about the zoning approvals the select board is going to need to hold a public hearing on the zoning updates and we have tentatively chosen January 10th to do that which is not irregular meeting night planning board needs to have two you need to have one and so that's Thursday the 10th Washington County has a pre-budget meeting on July for the fiscal 20 budget which will be next Thursday at 10 o'clock at the county clerk's office I mentioned the Christmas party college party we have we're going to be working with the state Vermont towns all their parcels are being mapped by through a state actually it's highway running through the state and it's taken over three years Berlin is on the third year of the project so that will be in 2019 I think it's going to save us some money in our mapping department and that is an expensive thing to keep our maps up to date so that will be happening town center I spoke to you about we still we're still I'm still waiting for some more information on the police department doors and we are going to be putting out an RFP for the hazard funding for that next week I'll be going for training for emergency management for administrators as well as Diane Rosemary and Corinne we had spoken some time ago about rewriting the animal control ordinance and basically it was because of the fines in there of how we can have them as revenue so I will be doing that as well so that's really all I have to thank you your addition my addition is the snowblower that the recreation department uses to clear the snow from the rink is dying of death and needs to be replaced Tom Willard went out and got three quotes on a snow snowblower the money would come out of the recreation fund we have three one from Tucker machines for 1999 1999 and these are all what's that make early this one is a toro power max look at that I don't understand that but I do John Deere has given him one for Honda HS and Tom tells me these are all comparable machines $3,029 and Sears a Sears for $17,9999 I asked him to get three quotes as per our policy for purchases between $1,000 and $5,000 this is the one I used to have the Honda is really nice a lot of power they are so expensive brutal their beauty I have the one the Sears I'm just I'm just going to say that I I would move to approve the machine from doctors only because they can fix it I think Tom also said that to me that he you know they take care of them there's probably nothing wrong with the Sears machine but who are you going to call right so does that stay just here just here yeah they store it they store it out so it should last a while $1,999 I'll make a motion that we buy the Snowblower from the funds from the Tucker machine for $1,999 second thank you for the discussion hey what another one I'm not going to run it it's just a ring I've got one look at my John here so I'll go on thank you all those in favor aye those opposed motion carries and we need to convene the liquor control board those who recess the select order they can do the control board second all those in favor aye I have application for a catering permit for Cornerstone Puffin Kitchen we've approved them many times we know them it's for a party to be held at the Northfield Savings Bank on December 13th we'll approve the catering license for Cornerstone second what's this for anyway it's a Northfield Banks Christmas party at the Northfield Savings Bank I got invited so that's what I wanted we should probably recuse yourself all those in favor aye those opposed motion carries and change the approximate number of persons people expected in 99 convene the select board we need to reconvene the select board to adjourn the liquor control board and reconvene the select board second all those in favor aye motion carries round table P I'm set Wayne I'm set Jeremy he's okay I'm good executive session no thank you move to adjourn second all those in favor aye that's the record