 Hello, Psych2Go viewers. Our guest for today's live stream is Jasmine, who's passionate about spreading autism awareness. Jasmine was featured in a video for the YouTube channel, Special Books by Special Kids, where she first told her inspiring story to the world. You guys can see that video linked in the description. Jasmine is based in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and here at Psych2Go, we're so happy to have her join us. Welcome, Jasmine. Thank you so much for being here today. Thank you so much for having me. Absolutely. So just for starters, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your background? Well, I'm from Philly. I've lived here my entire life. I am a wife of 16 years, and I am a mother of two really wonderful children who are also on the autism spectrum. I have siblings who are also been diagnosed and a lot of autistic people in my family from elderly all the way down to very young children. So while they're sort of like to live your life surrounded by people on the spectrum, and it's very fun. So it's generational. Well, we're almost 100% sure that my grandmother was the first one in the family that was on the spectrum. And my cousins and I also have children who are on the spectrum and are people on my father's side of the family as well as my husband's family. Oh, OK. Wow, that's super interesting. It's good that you know your history, right? Your background. So when were you diagnosed with autism? I was diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder level two with that presented itself with severe OCD symptoms. Oh, wow. And how old were you again? Sorry. I actually wasn't diagnosed until I was 32 years old. Both of my children were diagnosed first. So after my youngest was diagnosed when she was two years old, and we already saw so many similarities between me and the children, especially stories that we heard from my mother and saw from when my little sister was a child as well. We kind of came to the conclusion that after two children, it was probably a good ideal for me to be seen as well. And did someone recommend that too? Did the doctors you were seeing for your children recommend that to you? Like, hey, maybe you could be on the spectrum too. Yeah, the doctor did. Because after both of the children were diagnosed, they suggested that we do genetic testing. And all the genetic testing came back okay and all, but they did talk, they told me for the first time about the genetic traits that cause autism. And they said that, you know, you have a history of rigid behavior that it might be really good for you to go and see if this is something going on as well. And my mom would bring up how I lined the toys. And there were certain things about myself that were just pretty much well on. Like my mother used to have to grind up food for me until I was about eight years old due to textural reasons. So we realized that there were some things that were just extremely similar to all the younger people in our family. And how did you react when you first heard that diagnosis that you too had, you know, autism? Oh man, I was like, there's a name for this. Other people like me, there's stories, there are people that understand. It felt like a weight that had been dragging me down and the ocean was finally like lifted. And here I am just like floating. I love it. So it was like a relief, like finally. Yes, it really was because it had been years of figuring out what it exactly was. And I was misdiagnosed over and over and over again. And I was dismissed a lot, you know, once you're given one diagnosis, it's whatever. But once I got the correct diagnosis, I was able to finally come to peace with what had been going on my entire life. That makes total sense. And that is amazing. It takes a lot of courage to go in and, you know, try to get that diagnosis and seek treatment. So I commend you for that. That's really amazing. And what were the misdiagnoses if I may ask? I was misdiagnosed with bipolar disorder type 2, borderline personality disorder, borderline personality disorder. And I was also misdiagnosed. Yeah, I believe that those were the two big misdiagnoses that I was given. Those are huge misdiagnoses. Were you diagnosed with that as like a teenager? Yes, I was diagnosed with that as a teenager, because what they took as a meltdown was actually, they thought that it was like, you know, anger outbursts. So then it was less medicate you for your anger, less medicate you for this. And it was a roller coaster of taking 10, 12 different medications. And I finally was able to come off of that terrible cycle of getting sick coming off, getting sick coming off. And I haven't really taken anything since and I haven't been as healthy in my life. That makes total sense and that's amazing. And I think that's maybe the danger of diagnosing people too much like early on, like when they're teenagers. Your brain isn't even fully developed yet and they're telling you you have this, this and that. So, well, that's amazing that you shared that with us. And I just want to know how did autism like impact your worldview growing up? Or at least like once you were diagnosed. Well, I always knew growing up that I was different. There was just a barrier between me and other people. And that barrier has existed since I was in kindergarten. I mean, as far as I can remember, I realized that I was just not the same as other people. So I have gone through my entire life just trying to figure out why can't I connect with in two people in the same way that they seem to easily just have this thing together. But once I was diagnosed, I was able to see that, you know, this is just a different neural type. That's what it is. It's not that I'm not connecting with people. I have people who love me. I have people in my life who love and support me. Is that because my neural type is different, there was a lot of miscommunication and a lot of mischances and opportunities for me and my loved ones to learn to be closer because I didn't understand myself completely at that point. Absolutely. That's very powerful. And Deep, what you just said, like, if you don't even understand what you're going through, how can other people, right? Yeah. It's tough for people to support you when they don't know what to support you in. Yeah. And do you feel like school helped out? Were teachers or school officials helpful at all? I know that you weren't diagnosed while you were in school, but do you think they helped or was it like they made the struggle worse? Well, because I was a really... Well, I did really good as a school's kid, like until I got to like high school where social became like overwhelming. A lot of my teachers just pushed me through. It was like, oh, she's a nice girl, you know? She's quiet. She's in her own world. She's not giving us any problems. So it was more as though I was just pushed along. Oh, wow. And did you ever feel like you experienced bullying either from teachers or from students? Because I mean, I definitely feel like teachers can sometimes bully students. But I mean, did you ever experience bullying due to this or... Unfortunately, I dealt with bullying a lot. I think that my worst bullying was from the ages of eight years old till about 16. I actually left the high school I was at due to bullying and was transferred. And had a really lovely experience for the second half of my high school, my 11th and 12th grade years. But yes, when you're different, sometimes it's very easy to be the... When you're the lowest person on the social totem pole and when people don't know... People know that you're not going to fight back. It's easy to become the target of other hurt people. Yeah, and could you like... I mean, if you don't mind, could you tell me what occurred when it came to the bullying? Like what people would say to you or what it was like? Well, my nickname growing up until I was about 15, 16 was spaz. Because obviously it wasn't very nice thing to say and excuse me for saying it, but I had been called that so much in life that I didn't even realize that I was being teased. But I was called that in school and by other people in my neighborhood. I was always very in the clouds, very into the fantasy world. So I was just kind of known as like a bit of a space cadet. So yes, I was bullied a lot. I've had my hands slammed into school grade doors. I've been beat up. I've had things stolen from me and I was emotionally abused very badly, especially in my middle school and high school years. However, as I've become an adult, nobody has been more supportive of me than the people that I've gone to middle school and high school with. Oh, that's amazing. Wow. And I mean, it's amazing that you like... it made you stronger, right? It sounds like it really made you stronger. Like now you're an advocate and you... it makes you... the bullying helped you understand other people better in a way? I feel that I wouldn't be myself about the experiences that I went through. Can I say that I'm stronger, maybe without such traumatic experiences? Yeah. It might have been a little bit nicer to not have to, but you know what? I turned that into something. I wouldn't allow that to keep me down. Nothing was going to say, I was going to stay at the bottom. I was going to be who I wanted to be, no matter what. If you're not going to like me for who I am, then I might as well be that person anyhow, because you can't be anybody else, right? I love that. Yeah, you can't please everyone. And at the end of the day, you just have to live your truth, right? But honestly, I don't think that people... like you mentioned that they called you a spaz. I don't think that people realize like the impact of their words and how it can... like they think that it's just like teasing and a reality. It is abusive. And so I'm sorry you went through that. And I was going to ask... Yeah, I imagine. I think we've all been through some form of bullying one way or another, right? So what do you feel like people need to understand about how autism impacts women? Well, I think that autism impacts women just... at least in the women that I know, autism is slightly different in the boys than I know because the boys that I know with autism tend to act out for items to get their needs met. Where the girls that I have known, especially the children in my life now, tend to act out for the attention and things they need. As women, we're taught from very, very tiny age where we're given dolls. We're taught how to replicate older women. So it was like I was given a script to mess with from a tiny age. I was taught this is how you're supposed to be. And I learned from a tiny age, the way that I was was not the correct way to be. So as a really small child, I learned that I had to pretend and act different in order to fulfill society's standards of what they had from it. Wow. And that must be a really difficult thing like you can't be yourself. Yeah. So what would you say are the main differences between autism and women and men? And why is it so often underdiagnosed? Because it really is, I mean, I think that there's just a lack of our presentation. So what would you say are the differences? I would definitely say that the differences are, is that it's okay. The women that I know of autism are more fantasy based, more into like things that created things. I think that the men aren't creative and all, but like the adult men that I know of autism in my life, they're very obsessed with like their special interests as far as like trains or wrestling or video games. And it's like a one track thing where the women I know also have the special interests that they are in and are just as fervent about it, but we're taught to mask at even a higher level. So we're undiagnosed on a higher level because the quietness and the timid nature sometimes or even like the fanciful fairy nature of some of us is just seen as acceptable female behavior. Therefore it's overlooked. Yeah, and that must be really difficult and invalidating. And I mean, because it's not, people think that like the way it impacts men is the same way it's going to impact women. And that's not necessarily the case. I mean, have you seen some parallels or similarities at least or? I've seen some. I definitely, as I said, women, people have, when doctors are diagnosed in autism, they, at this point, you're still diagnosed in autism off of middle class, upper class, white male children. And that is a very small like part of our population for everyone with autism. There's so many people who are falling through the cracks and not be a diagnosed, especially black and brown folks, people on the LGBTQ plus. And we're just, it's a lot of people who don't fit standard of what autism is in the DSM are being overlooked. It's just a lot of us are falling through the cracks. Absolutely. Even more than we probably were a lot. The way we diagnose autism needs to be reformed because I love what you said that. Can you repeat that? A lot of doctors diagnose it through the lens of like rich, white, you know, people, right? Or like upper, not rich, but, you know, upper middle class. Yeah. The people who in the 80s and the 90s who could afford to get diagnosed. Yeah. Because unfortunately, even in Philadelphia, there's places to get diagnosed with autism and it's called $5,000. Who, who, who has that in their pockets just to be able to go and afford and just be like, okay, here's this, let me have my diagnosis. So there's only a small portion that they based all of these criteria off of. And it's not the whole community. And I think that often we don't talk about the intersection between autism and race. It does make a difference. Like the way autism may affect a person of color can be different than the way it might impact someone who's Caucasian, right? Yeah. I know for myself it's African-Americans, we do a lot of code switching, especially when I'm at a home setting compared to a more formal setting. But it's, I have to not only code switch between a formal setting and home, but now I have to code switch between autistic and not autistic, between all the communities that I'm in. It's exhausting. No, I completely understand. And so you feel like there should be like reform in the way we diagnose autism in a lot of ways? Oh, yes. I believe that there needs to be a lot more, there's a lot of, let's cure autism. And I'm so glad that we're in acceptance stage because it's like, we're here. I'm not a child. I'm an adult, almost 40 years old with autism. And we need to figure out how to make life easier and more bearable for the people and adults who are already dealing with this throughout their lives, through all stages of their lives. Most of the diagnosis criteria is for children. What about the 60-year-olds? Like most of the guy that plays violence in the lands, he was just diagnosed. Wow, that's insane. He was just diagnosed. So, I mean, there's so many people out here that experiences are just being looked over, mostly because of money. Absolutely. I mean, I think that's a whole other conversation, but I definitely think there needs to be reform in our healthcare system, especially when it comes to mental health, when it comes to all of that, because so many people are being under diagnosed, people are dying, people aren't getting the treatment that they need, and it's ruining lives. So I definitely agree with you. Thank you for bringing that up. That's amazing. And I just wanted to know, what are some of the stereotypes you've noticed about women with autism or misconceptions? You're like, yes. The stereotypes. Everyone expects me to be the female Sheldon, or they expect me to be like Sheldon's girlfriend. And I mean, if you get me talking about history, I'll never stop. I mean, I can talk for hours. However, I feel like the stereotypes are almost just dangerous in a way, because if you've met one person with autism, you've met one person with autism. We're so vastly different. Myself, I've heard stereotypes saying that people with autism don't care about the way that they look. Myself and my closest friends, because both of my best friends, my male and female best friend are also on the spectrum. We care about the way we dress. We care about, we love those things. We love our colorful things. My best friend wears chicken wing headbands and stuff like that. We have our own little style and our own way of living our lives. And we do care about these things, but in our own unique way. You look fabulous, by the way. Oh, thank you. We're told that, you know, the biggest one I've heard is that people with autism don't have empathy, or that some shouldn't get into relationships, or that we shouldn't marry. I've heard terrible things, things under my previous video about eugenics with comments and people with autism shouldn't have children. And my children are straight A students are happy and well loved in our community. And I think that the misconception that just autistic people in general, you know, have a lack of empathy is extremely dangerous and stigmatizing. I think that we completely need to, we need to eliminate every stereotype, but that one's the worst of the worst, honestly, in my opinion, but what do you think? To me, it is as well because it's like, just because we show it differently doesn't mean we feel it, don't feel it. Actually, most of the people I know in my life that have autism, we feel empathy so much that it hurts. Like we can literally take your pain into ourselves as if it's our own pain. That's not just being empathetic. That is, we feel you. I feel that most of the time, a lot of us will autism understand the neurodiversity people with, of all people, more than neurotypicals do. And I think that watch in some cases the expression of empathy might be different and that's why people misconstrue it as a lack of empathy, but it's just different. It's just neurodivergence and it's beautiful. And we just have to learn to, you know, educate ourselves on neurodivergence and on our differences, but it's not that, okay, they lack empathy. And so I think that's something that, you know, people need to understand. So thank you for bringing that up. And so that brings me to our audience segment where we answer your viewer questions. I'm super excited. We have so many people in here. So let's begin, Jasmine. Start. Someone said, I just wanted to share this. Someone said preach. I love that, yes. So Lauren asked, why do, so Jasmine, why do you think that autism, people with autism tend to be bullied more than, you know, regular people? I'm not sure if this is true, but what do you think? So answering the question. Say that one more time for me. Lauren asked, why do you think people with autism tend to be bullied more in school than neurotypicals? Which I'm not sure if this is true, but you can answer the question for yourself. Well, I was reading the book, Unmask and Autism by Dr. Devin. I can't remember Dr. Devin's last name. And Dr. Devin was talking about how that we, there's something inside of people sometime when they meet you and you can, they automatically can tell you're different. I do truly believe that when you're different in a way that is like, I don't know how to put it. It's very hard to explain. When you're different, you're automatically a target for people who want to, who want to over somebody. Somebody has to be the other. And just being socially different is enough right there. Children can tell. I can see with little children, them noticing when autistic children are different. This is something that starts from a very young age. And I just wanted to share this comment by Michelle Brown. She said, I get bullied so much for having ADHD and being autistic. Well, Michelle, coming from another Michelle, I just want to say stay strong. You're amazing and you're deserving of love and respect. And I'm sorry you're going through that. So I just wanted to put that out there. Michelle, last year I was bullied as well. When I did the video, I was bullied by someone I knew in real life who decided to make a video and make fun of me. I understand bullying doesn't stop when you're, when you're an adult, you know, and it's just part of the experience of being autistic sometimes. Yeah, absolutely. And then let me find another comment. So some, so let me read this queen just asked, I was just diagnosed at the age of 28 with ADHD and autism. Do you feel my diagnosis will change my life in the way people look at me? I have to say that besides within myself, my diagnosis hasn't changed much about my life. Everyone knew I was different. It was like, what, why is Jasmine so bouncy or why is Jasmine always moving, always talking and specifically going on about Queen Elizabeth or, you know, or something like that. And when they found out everyone in my life, they became, oh, okay, that makes sense. And it was hilarious because here I am afraid. Like, what is everyone going to think of me and everybody was just like, okay, especially for the people in my life. Now I am very wary about telling people outside of my family, such as people who I would work with or people that I meet on the street at first I was. However, I can't be any less autistic than I can be black. Being autistic is as big of my, as big as my identity as being a female and as being a black woman is. So I can't separate myself from that. And in my own personal life, I choose to wear my scarlet A as proud as I can. I love that. Yes. And so then Kenya asks Jasmine tips for managing being autistic in the workplace. I think this is a great question. Well, I think it really depends on your coworkers because I know for myself when I was working before I became a homeless then more time with the children that I was a slow to warn person. So basically, everyone was slow to warm up to me. It took a few months for people to realize that I wasn't suspicious or that I wasn't like, you know, I guess my face didn't, my outward expression didn't express how I felt on the inside. And I know a lot of us suffer from that. So I realized that sometimes those first impressions are hard to shake off and jobs. I would just say continue to be you. And if they like you, eventually great. And if they don't, they're not your paycheck. They're not your what your paycheck. Do you say they're not your paycheck? I love absolutely tree. They're to get a paycheck. So at the end of the day, if they don't like you, that's their loss, right? That's what with being autistic, it all comes down to us really feeding ourselves that love that we need because we have to be our own biggest self-validators. Absolutely. Self-love is paramount. And at the end of the day, you have to be your own advocate sometimes, unfortunately. Well, not unfortunately, but I think it's a point that we are our own advocates, right? Yeah. And then like Lexi asked, what made you think in adulthood that you were struggling with autism? Well, good question. After I had the children, I really struggled with the sensory issues of the children wanting to touch me, the loudness of it, the things being moved, the schedule was off. And I would find that I was stemming a lot. So then it became, oh no, it was his mother dealing with postpartum psychosis because I'm stemming. I'm doing all these things that they're not understanding what's going on. And when my son was diagnosed and everybody, we do the testing when they're 18 months. And the doctor, we told our family. And my father-in-law was like, oh, I don't think your son has autism. He's just very reserved like you. And then I went and I just looked at him. My father-in-law, I stared at him and I was just like, no, yes, he is just like me, but no, he's autistic. And then it was like the Spider-Man me, me and my son pointing back at work with each other. Because it's like, he is, that means I am. And I had to sit on it for a bit. Wow. It's like an aha moment. And then it's Snowy Owl asked, how can a narrow, narrow typical person best support someone on the autism spectrum? The best way you can support them is having good communication with them. What is it that they need? What do they need from you? Since we're so different, the person you know may need to have their headphones on for an hour or two every day and sit and be quiet. Somebody else, like my son, may need you to sit there for 45 minutes and truthfully just listen to him talk about Minecraft. You know, like not to be dismissed as, oh, a second class citizen, to be seen as a person with 100% equal rights and not as, oh, you're disabled. No, you're a person with a different neural type who deserves the same respect and love. That's the treatment like you would treat everyone else with that dignity. It's the best and first thing you can do. Yes, I agree 100%. Everyone deserves respect. Oh. And then let's see. Oh, did you read the comment? She said her story is so inspiring. Oh, thank you so much. Let's... How can you support, so someone, let me see who asked this. Jax asked, how can you support your children if they're being bullied in school due to autism? Truthfully, I've thought about this question a lot. One, just in case it happened to my children, because unfortunately, I don't know anyone with autism who doesn't have some level of trauma when it comes to bullying. The best way to support them would to be to ask them what options, and to work with your child on what options are the best. Sometimes it's talking to the principal. Sometimes it's going back and back and back to that principal. My friend has their child's home school because the bullying became too much, and her child is doing Boelle home school, even playing an instrument. You know, like there's different options now in this new world for children who are being bullied because the bullying... The bullying stays. The 40-year-olds I know in the spectrum, they still feel it. We feel amazingly strong feelings, and that does not lead. And then Sarah, and I agree with you, Jasmine, thank you. And then Sarah asked, should kids with autism be separated in schools from children who are not neurodivergent? Should they be put in separate classrooms, or do you feel like they should all be in the same classroom? Will that affect them in any way? What do you think? I don't know. I want you to answer this. That's a good question. I believe it's case-to-case basis. For instance, with my children, both of them have different cases with that. Both spend all day in a regular education class, and then my son in the afternoons goes to social skills class. And my daughter does social skills three times a week in the special needs classroom, and then we'll get the support. Schools are, for the most part, at least my children's school here in Philadelphia, has been amazing with making sure that you're getting the exact support that they need as far as in and out of the class. So it really is on a case-to-case basis as far as what the child needs. But my son has known these children since he was four or five years old, and they look out for him. So I think that younger children have autism acceptance already in them. Absolutely. And then, let's see. Michael asked, do you think that TikToks about autistic women can be insensitive sometimes in mocking? That's a good question. Oh, goodness. I stay from TikTok, autism, TikTok, because there's a lot of misinformation. I find some of them very funny. I saw one about autistic twerking, and I'm like... I feel like that's going to affect you, I don't know. Maybe this is just me, but I feel like I've seen a lot of TikToks sexualizing them with autism. How do you feel about that? Because I feel like it's rude or degrading in a way. What do you think? Well, I think that it's good that people are realizing that autistic people are sexual beings as well. Yeah. And autism can be sexy. I think it's very sexy on myself. No, of course. But the TikToks that over-sexualize women with autism, I'm not sure about that, but I get what you're saying. You can be sexy no matter, neurotypical, neurodivergent, sexy no matter what. I think it's a nice turn from considering us sexless creatures who don't deserve relationships and being married. A lot of people feel that way. So I think that there needs to be a good and who can I sit in the middle with that, you know? Jasmine, from personal experience, has someone told you that you shouldn't date because you have autism? Because if that's the case, that person is out of their mind. But has that happened to you? Well, since I've met my husband before, I was diagnosed. No one has told me that. But I know people as of right now who are told that they shouldn't date because of their autism and people who are not encouraged to live their life to the fullest and having relationships, friends, growing and developing as a person in all ways is important, even to us. Absolutely. And then Mermaid Queen asked, by the way, I love that name, but anyways, it was always hard for me to communicate with people because they would correct me all the time and I would be embarrassed. How was it for you when you, you know, try to communicate with people? I'm a... That's the way to put it. I'm so overly blunt that I wind up with foot in my mouth syndrome a lot because the way I would talk to my best friend is the way I'm talking to y'all right now. It's the same way that I'll talk to someone at church or a job interview. So I wind up with foot in my mouth syndrome because unlike how neurotypicals know how to switch a little bit better for situations, you're going to get straight up jasmine every time you talk to me. I love that. And so that concludes our audience segment. Thank you guys so much for participating. It's very much appreciated. And so my last question for you, Jasmine, I just want to know how can our society at large support women with autism better and more effectively? They need to ask us. There needs to be researched. There needs to be studies. There needs to be money that's putting into autism, not the walks on. Find the cure because the cases are going up. We need to figure out how to live in this society and make this society more successful for people with autism. A lot of us have such special interests and talents that are have been so dynamic to this world. And if these were like, you know, if these were harvested and more people, who knows how much autistic people would even be able to add to our society. But this is not going to happen until there is more asking of us, more correct diagnosis and more research so we can really get the information we need. The focus needs to change from cure to living because we're here. You can't cure me. I'm already grown. I'm trying to be cured. You're accepting of who you are and you love the way you are. That's amazing. I wouldn't change a thing. That's amazing. We need to allocate more resources and funding to underfunded communities and communities of color. Absolutely. I definitely agree. Thank you so much, Jasmine for joining us today. It was amazing. We were able to watch it and record it afterwards. Thank you so much, Jasmine. Your story is inspiring and helping so many people. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. It was awesome. Absolutely. This concludes our episode of Psychology Roundtable. Thank you for joining us. Until the next one. Bye.