 Welcome back. Welcome back. This is still Y in the morning and today is WCW, which is the hashtag we are using. If you're just joining us, you are on time for the first conversation of the day. And we have a lovely lady with us. She's called Zepora Wanieki. She's a counselor and a teacher. And we, of course, we are celebrating him. But we're doing that by talking about a topic that she is very passionate about. And this is some, you know, domestic violence and how we can curb that. And particularly today, we will be talking about effects of domestic violence on children. So she's here to help us with this topic. How are you? I'm good. I'm also fine. And you're not a first-time visitor. You're part of us. Yes, yes. Right now, you know, everyone knows you. But feel free to introduce yourself again in case there's something I've not mentioned. Yeah, true. Thank you. As I said earlier, my name is Zepora Wanieki. I'm a teacher. I'm a counselor. I'm a trainer. I do all those things. I'm a mentor. I mentor a lot of young people. And I believe that we are going to talk to young people about how to deal with their issues. And why you, before we get into it, why you, because today is all about strength of a woman and also celebrating women like you who are out there advocating for such, you know, negative things in the society to, you know, to seize from being. So why, why are you passionate about fighting against domestic violence? I'm passionate about it because I know that the nitty-gritty behaviors that you see with these young ones, they can be explained if you look back at where they came from. If you want to shape a child behavior, you first of all have to give this child a safe environment. So if they grow up in some environment where they are seeing chaos, they are seeing crime, and we want to shape a generation, we are losing it. So we need to give them a very secure environment for them to be so that we can even nurture their talent and make them go to the society and become themselves. Okay. All right. So let's talk about domestic violence. People have a different understanding of it. So what is a domestic violence? Stephanie, the easiest way to explain domestic violence, one that will be understood by anybody in the society, it is any form of violence or aggression for that matter that is subjected towards you within your family, within your circles, say a family member or someone who is close to you. That is basically what is domestic violence. Okay. Yeah. And when we talk about it, it can be in many forms. So domestic violence can be, it can take the form of maybe emotional, physical. So we are going to look at maybe the forms that are there so that somebody knows exactly what we are talking about. But it is anything that is against your wish, something that intimidates you, it doesn't even have to be physical. It can be emotional. It can be something else. So what are the forms of domestic violence that we have? Thank you. One common one that we know of is the physical one. Physical type of violence is if somebody comes and beats you up, a slap on your face. You know, when you're doing it, it looks very harmless. But looking at it, if somebody slaps you at your age and you don't understand it, it could result in better terms. So somebody who slaps you. And let us picture this, because we are talking of domestic, think of partners as spouse, a husband and a wife. I mean, there are better ways of solving problems instead of slapping, beating, you know, punching, strangling, that is physical. Other than that, and it is very bad because it has also even resulted to chopping of hands. The other day you saw it on media, a lady who waited in her marriage and her hands were chopped off. Others will chop even the private parts. You know, it's chaotic. Other than physical, we can have now what you call the emotional violence. There's emotional violence. Oh yes, psychological one. Now this one will come in the form of insult. Somebody abuses you verbally, calling you all domestic and wild animals. I mean, it becomes very hurtful. Something body shaming, for example. You're too fat, you're too old. Maybe let's talk to Kenyans. There are things we can control and there are those that we cannot control. So don't insult, don't talk to somebody based on their body appearance. Some people are very sensitive, especially ladies. Ladies are very sensitive with whatever it is, how they appear. Don't look for a better way of telling them you're big. Don't say you are as fat as a pig. That's too harsh. And maybe she's struggling with her body fat. So it can be body shaming, it can be verbal abuse. And did you know, Stephanie, that even rejection is part of emotional abuse? Rejection? Yes. How so? Imagine this child who is so innocent and she feels rejected in a family. The parent doesn't want her. Your mother doesn't want you. Your father doesn't want you. Nobody wants you. That's psychological torture. Enough to this child. Enough to cause you to commit suicide, for example. So most people... So that's why we see cases of children committing suicide. Someone is seven years old, you wonder what has been going through their mind for them to think of suicide as their offender. Okay. There could be many other factors that maybe can lead to that. But if you find out well, it's not common for everybody to wake up and decide to end their life. Honestly, who doesn't want to live? So if you see something like that, children who feel rejected. And you don't have to tell them that to reject them. Your action shows. And do you know, even babies, babies, small babies, they have a way of knowing whether they are loved or not. You try making faces and they feel like, this one doesn't love me. They cry out. Try making something. So there is no home that is safe and one that is chaotic. So that is psychological form of torture. And I was telling another group somewhere that the nerve in the brain that receives physical pain is the same nerve that receives psychological pain. That's how you see people had broken. So he's crying. You wonder what you're going to find out. The same nerve that gets that pain. That's why you see somebody, you know, manifesting and crying and all those things. That is a psychological form of torture. There are other forms that we can talk about. For example, early marriage. Early marriages. It's a form of abuse. You denying this person the opportunity to go and be in school. Other than early marriages, you can talk about FGM, what you call the female genital moderation. It's a form of abuse. It's a form of violence. It's against this trend. And sometimes you hear it in the society and you hear the grandmother say it has to be done. And it is done in a very crude way, using some very weird objects that even pose harm to this young girl. It's a form of violence. It was against your will. You get it? There are others that can come in the form of financial, for example, these husband who denies the wife opportunity to go and work. You sit down like the others simply because he's afraid this wife might go out there and is beautiful and will be seen by other people. All those insecurities, you can really manage them. The others that say that you're not supposed to own property. Women are supposed to be seen and not to be heard. Women are counted as children. So that's a form of violence. It is intriguing into your rights. You suppose, I mean Kenya, who does it own property? So when somebody says you cannot because of your gender and then you start fighting about it, it's a form of violence. So there are so many other forms of violence that we can talk about, but basically maybe we can characterize them in those. Even these people who force abortion, a young girl gets married and then the husband says, no, so this person forces an abortion to the girl. It's a form of violence. It was against, the girl was willing to keep the baby. These other person decides no, you terminate it. They manipulate. When you feel manipulated, it's a form of violence. Okay. So all these are forms of domestic violence. Yes, they are forms of domestic violence because this person has not allowed you to be. It is either physical or emotional. Wow. All right. And now we want to look at the aspect of how children are affected by that. And there's a research that said that early relationships, whether abuse or neglect, neglect have a long, long-term impact on children, a brain that has adopted to survive. Oh, yeah, sure. So how does it affect the child? Okay, fine. When we were doing research, we found that in Nairobi alone, it accounts for 41% of children who are victims of domestic violence. Nairobi alone. 41% is very high. Very high. 41 out of 100. So out of 100 children, 41 of them, they are victims. So they have grown in dysfunctional homes where they see the mother and the father fight and such. And so you would want to know what happens when these, or how does it manifest in these children? One of the effects that it has, maybe we can characterize these children, we can give them into levels. We have the preschoolers. These are the toddlers that are going to join school or maybe they haven't joined school, the baby class, those children. How it manifests to them when they can go to, there's a behavior, there's a defense mechanism we call regression. Regression is sleeping back to an earlier stage you had already outgrown. For example, bedwetting. So a child, maybe by two, by three years, maybe depending on how the baby grows has outgrown that is no longer bedwetting. But now has started seeing this type of violence at home, mother fighting and punching and screaming at night. So this child, because of stress, goes back to bedwetting. You're the reason. Other than that, they can also go to them sucking. They start sucking their thumbs. So if you are a caregiver, you notice that a child has already outgrown a stage and is slowly coming back to it, find out the levels of stress with that child. They cry a lot. You know, they have anxiety. They are afraid. They feel something bad might happen. I'm going to school. My mom might be killed. My dad, all vice versa. It doesn't have to be mom. So they're always ready, prepared for danger. There's a looming danger. Yes. And they cry a lot. Other than that, they have trouble sleeping, by the way. When they sleep, you find they wake up in the middle of the night and they are talking things because they are afraid. They have nightmares and such stuff. They also have trouble eating. Therefore, this child will not concentrate. Those are preschoolers. You come to now these children that are in school. Let's talk of preteens. Preteens, it's a duration between nine to 12 years. They are not yet teenagers. They are they are preparing, but they have started showing signs of becoming teenagers nine to 12. You notice the preteens, they blame themselves for it. I think and the reason my parents are fighting. So what do they do? They start saying something like, I'll quit this home and I'll go and I'll never come back. So as a teacher, if you hear that kind of a statement, you're supposed to know because they take the blame. And when we were teaching people about laws, I told people that this age group, they always feel like they're the reason why their mom or their dad died. They blame everything on themselves. Why? Is it a stage? Yeah, it's a stage. Even when I was a good child, my mother would not have died. My father would not have died. They feel like they were the cause of that death. If not well monitored, you can go to depression and all there is such things. So these children have trouble concentrating. In class, they will not. Why? They are disturbed. They have trouble forming relationships. Okay. Yeah, because these children, they have seen struggles at home. So they are building something you're building. I always say that children, it's like the formative years of a child is like wet cement. Now, whatever you place on it, will last forever. Yeah, it is thick. That is what we are told. And you notice that between around seven years to twelve years, they listen a lot, observe a lot, but they are quiet. You might be tempted to think that these children are making it too often. They are recording. The brain is recording. When God said that in years, they start acting out. They act out what they have been recording previous years. So what has this child been recording, violence? What will act out in their teenage stage? They'll start now becoming violent. So that's why we have bullies in school. Oh, yes. So when we come now to teenagers, that is where we are now. Teenagers, how they deal or how they manifest because of the violence they see at home. One, they can become bullies. Bullies, it means, you know, it's a projection of a behavior. When I am bitter and you come in and you do something on me, I'll slap you. Why? Because I'm bitter. Because that is your normal. Because that is what was inside me. That is what is peeling over to you. You come and you look at somebody, you make a comment and this person abuses you. Why? That was what was inside them. So when you see a bully, in as much as they are characterized with what you call maladjusted behaviors, there is a good reason behind bullying. A good reason. And no more child will not go bullying. Why? For what reason? So you notice that they can bully. If they don't bully, they become victims of bullying. So they are either the bully. Oh, yes. Or they are the victims of bullying. You notice, for example, girls, they have this personality that is not very aggressive. So they could be victims of a bully. If it's a boy, he will go physical. He wants to, you know, power out, project whatever is inside him to other people. Are you getting it? Yeah. Other than becoming bullies or victims of bully, there's something that is very whirling. And everybody, every parent who is parenting a teenager should be cautious about that. What we call engaging in dangerous behaviors. What are they doing that? This is what I saw at home. Some of these dangerous behavior are unprotected sex. They know very well. At teenage, we've taught a lot of HIV and AIDS stuff and they know what can happen and what can cause, what can spread HIV. But they still go ahead as a way of punishing their parents. They have emotions that are, they want to vent out these emotions. So what do they do? These misbehaves. One of them is unprotected sex. Another one, they engage in drugs. Drugs, either alcohol, banging, they could even be smoking, shisha, all those things. They want to do that so that the parents can feel the pinch. Unfortunately, some parents are not there. If you grew up in a home where both parents are alcoholic, serious drunkards, you think they know whether you smoked or you did not. They were not there to monitor you. They are absent parents. So these chad harms themselves. Because if you go asking, when they come for counseling and we ask them, you said, you started an healthy relationship. Why was that? And somebody says, I was stressed. And you're like, so why? What was your cause of stress? You'd expect them to say books, nini, come be a knock at home. My dad, they were always fighting. And that is why I was doing that. So you notice that they engage in dangerous behavior. So they can get into addictions that they are not able to come out of them. Because once you learn a behavior, it will take time before you and learn that behavior. So some of these things can be irreversible. For example, you engage in this kind of sex. And then you get the HIV virus. And could that be one of the reasons why many teenagers, according to the recent statistics, we have a high number of teenagers who are HIV positive and even pregnant? Did you notice the other day that the media was hearing that about the high number of teenagers and either teenage pregnancy or HIV. And HIV infections. And there's a slogan that goes around the youth. I interact with them so much. So I get to listen to what they say. This is something like, well, after that, I mean, after that HIV, cancer, cancer is deadly. So people actually, oh, people are afraid of cancer instead of HIV. And they have their own reasons and they reason and you almost believe in them. But come to think of, yeah, sure. They tell you, well, why don't I'm going to work cancer? Cancer is deadly. Cancer will kill you. HIV, you can't take your visa and you're leaving. So they see it as an option that it's okay now. And people fear pregnancy more than HIV, by the way. You go asking these young girls in town and they fear pregnancy than HIV. So the other day, people were in Varsha and you could request to hear those who went there. What they were afraid of more than HIV was pregnancy. So because of this, during our times, I remember when HIV came, we were taken for these, we used to call those videos, what to talk about, and they would bring the videos and we would watch and we were afraid of seeing a sick person dying. I think people really need to be, you know, that awareness need to be created once more so that they know that HIV is also not a joke. Yeah, I know you eat well. If you find yourself there, then we give you coping mechanism. But before, if we can prevent you from going there, the better. Yes. So these children, you will find them engaging in that kind of behavior. Other than that, they also have difficulties in concentrating in class. So this is one of the ways maybe a teacher can identify. A disturbed child has difficulty concentrating. Why? Your mind is away. I'm sure you kept on hearing teachers saying, so picture this, my mom came at night, my dad came at night and they were fighting and I could hear them screaming. Do you want, and I left that morning for school and left my mom at home, what makes you think I will be concentrating, not thinking that my mom will be killed? So another thing that they do, they play what you call truancy. Truancy is running away from school without the right reason, without permission and you are not permitted, you don't have the right reason to be away. So why are they playing truancy? It is because they feel like, if I leave my parents at home, what I want. So they feel, if I'm there, probably I can control something. Yeah. Another thing that happens to these people in future, that is why I'm very passionate about telling them, we want to form a healthy generation. If this person was a victim of violence, also parents fighting at home, what will happen? In future, he could also initiate the same. What is good for dad is also good for me. So dad was fighting mom, I am a boy, I marry, I'll also fight my wife. So you feel like this is my mentor. If my mentor smokes, I smoke. If my mentor battles wives, I also battle mine because you feel like this is the right thing. So you may never end that cycle if it starts with people, because it's something that they saw it happening and they also want to continue with it. If it's a girl, she might also become a victim of domestic violence in her marriage. She saw her mom being beaten so it's okay for her to continue. And she felt like it's normal to be beaten, it's normal to experience this kind of violence. So she might stomach too much, she doesn't know that she has her own rights. So she might also go there and become a victim. And I have never known, maybe I'm doing research, why I'm sure you've heard of people we call narcissists, people who control and manipulate others. I have never known why if you grew up in a narcissistic home, you are likely to get married off to a narcissist. I've never known why. Is it because like at rats, like you are looking for solace, then you find yourself again in the simplest, I have never known. Maybe we need to do research about that. Yes, we will do research. When you get it, please come back and tell us. I will definitely. So now, and what about mental health issues? You know, children who have experienced this, are they at a higher risk of experiencing mental health issues when they grow up? True, true. They are. And one of them is what we call depression. And when we are explaining depression, we say that extreme stress leads to depression. So depression is a state of hopelessness because you have tried to be strong for too long, but now you've become hopeless. So that person is depressed. You feel empty from inside. So this child has grown seeing violence and feels like life is worthless. I don't want it. So these children, they are mentally disturbed a lot. So they'll have a lot of stress. They'll have depression. And all those other, for example, they are likely to suffer from what we call phobia, phobia and anxiety. They suffer from anxiety disorders. I'm sure you have heard what you call PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder. So they also have PTSD. Yes, they're likely to have one. For example, if you are at a mall and then there was explosion, you will be afraid of going back to the mall again, isn't it? Now, if you are in an accident and maybe you are saved, you will fear maybe using cars. Travelling in a car. Yes. Now, if you were in a kind of a home where there was chaos, you will be afraid to get married or to marry and even to be to find yourself in such kind of a home. So these people, you hear them getting panic attacks and you want to say they form because of such. All right. Before we get to how we can help them, we mentioned about preschoolers, preteens and teenagers. But what about infants? Do they also take this in once they're small? Maybe someone, maybe three months old, are they also affected? Yes. Leave alone infants. Let's talk about fetus, the ones that are in the womb. Oh, okay. Oh yes. The first thing when a woman conceives, the first thing to form is the heart, isn't it? The heart forms and then these are the organs of the body forms. The brain is the last one to mature towards the lungs, towards the ninth man. If something happens, because as at around five, six, seven months, if you're speaking to this baby inside the womb, the baby hears. We even told that they see light inside there. So if you're speaking to this baby, they hear. So they know that the mother today is happy. If the mother is sad, they also know the mother is sad. What about if the mother is screaming? They know it's bad. So when you are experiencing chaos from outside here, and let me let's talk to people and tell them the leaders of that. When a mother is pregnant, is expectant, she needs total peace because that is the time you're forming the character and the personality and everything of this baby. Even the personality. Everything about this baby, everything about you. It can be shaped by environment, but they don't tell you. You come with it. You come packaged. So you realize that if you temper with this mother, if there are things we used to call teratogens, teratogens are those things that can affect the mother so that you don't get a healthy baby. Depending on when the teratogen happened, it will depend on what deformity you get. Maybe it happened when your eyes are being formed. So you're born blind. Your ears. So you're born without hearing. So whatever. So maternal stress is one of the teratogens we are talking about. A mother being stressed, malnutrition amongst some of the others. So if you are stressing this mother when a certain the baby was being formed, chances of this baby being born with some issues are very high. So these children in the womb, they can be affected by stress. And now when they are born, I've just told you babies know how to look at you. I know this is a happy face. This is a sad face. This is a dangerous face. And they look at you and they cry. And they feel, you know, they are human beings and the brain is fully operational. So they have a feeling. It's only that they are limited in movement, but they have a feeling of being insecure and being okay. So if they grow up in chaotic homes, if you try banging the door or dropping something with the baby, they are. Oh yeah, you see them. Why? It's because they know this is a flight moment. That is what happens. Right. So they're also affected. Now, how can we help, you know, the society, even the teachers, the caregivers, these children that have been in homes where they've experienced domestic violence. Thank you. There are many ways that we can help them, one of them being reassuring them. If this child, you see what I say, mama, jyaki mwagika haia zuleki. So if something has happened and they find themselves with a lot of panic and anxiety and all those fears, you reassure them. That all is well. When they come for counseling, we try to tell them separate issues. Those are mom and dad issues. You have your own life to live. So let them not start taking side. Oh, let them be individualized. So other than reassuring them, there's something we call support system. You can get support system and by support system, talk to counselor, talk to therapist. They'll take you through. They'll be able to tell you now this is not a healthy relationship because I've come to realize most people do not draw a line, a clear line, a clear boundary between a healthy relationship and a toxic one. Somebody calls you 16 times and you interpret that for love. I mean, why are you monitoring? Who gave you death? Why are you monitoring me throughout? I mean, one call two times is enough. Once I get it, I'll call you. Most of these people, they are monitoring what you're doing. They are feeling insecure for them wherever they are. That's why they are calling 16 times. You interpret that for love. But if you are that kind of person, you'll know these are red light. One time is enough. I'll get back to you once I'm done. So you can now help. Therapist will help you to know that in as much as you want to stay strong for these children, sometimes being away is better for them because why stay in a marriage where these kids are seeing Baba and Kujah and our chapeau water, where we have our children, we have our children, I'm screaming the whole night, you are at panic. Do you know sleeping means you are peaceful? For you to get enough sleep, you must be peaceful. If you have something disturbing, you know that these children cannot sleep, they cannot develop, they cannot do what? Why be strong for them and you're injuring them? You want to retain this marriage because of them, but you're doing them a lot of harm than good. So you'd rather be away, look at your children while you're at a distance. So we have not come to tell people to go and divorce, but we are saying assess your situation and realize, can I stay or is it doing us good or harm? And you separate yourself and these children will thank you later. They'll notice it was the best decision. Okay, and doesn't the relocation affect these children at some point? We talk about what we call the lesser evil, which is the lesser evil that they sit there every day not sleeping and not doing and not doing or you take them. Yeah, they might feel and sometimes they are so bitter even with this father or mother, for example, whoever is mistreating them, they are so bitter with them that they say, ah, thank God, we want you. Yeah, because now because your peace of mind comes first, before you can even love, you have to be peaceful. So you want me to love somebody who has been beating my mother? Not really. So they would rather you and what would have happened if the mother died, for example? They would blame themselves. Exactly, or the father because domestic violence doesn't have to be once a day. It can also be the mother abusing the father. The father. Yeah, so if one of them dies, they'll blame themselves forever. So let them at least be somewhere that they can be helped. So you can form support system. There's something we call cognitive behavioural therapy, CBT. Now, this is a talk therapy. If you visit a cancer or a therapist, they'll take you through that. They're able to assess your negative emotions, your positive emotions and the way the damage these domestic violence has had on you and they tell you the way forward. You're able to pave a way forward. And how do we help them build relationships? Because now you've said they have trouble forming relationships and even trusting people. I think maybe when someone is being kind to them, it's something that is not common. I don't know. So how do we help them form relationships? You can help these people form relationships. Number one, I always say that they have to move on. Life has to move on. So let them forgive themselves because they feel very bitter. After they forgive themselves, let them forgive their parents. And then let them, you know, when you want to, you model good behaviour. When you want somebody to be well behaved. So let them now know that in society, it's only these ones who are fighting, not everybody is fighting. So, I mean, give them or expose them to positive role models. It can be in church, it can be in a school setup or everywhere else. So when you expose them to positive role models, they'll notice. So when they get their esteem back, they can form a relationship. People are not able to nurture their relationship because of their self esteem. So they have a bruised ego. Either they have a bloated ego. It can be, it can be either way. A bloated ego will not nurture friendship. A bruised one will equally not nurture friendship. So if they can have a balanced self esteem that they know, yeah, I know these ones did this, but I can. We teach learners about assertiveness and self awareness. You know your strength and your weakness. Then you can, you can manoeuvre in life. Okay. All right. And now, once I give maybe a teacher identifies that this child is going through is in our toxic environment where there's domestic violence. So now, does it mean that the person should be more lenient to them such that there's, they give them lighter, there's no consequence or, you know, you're treating them in a way to, you know, to show them love. But does it mean that there's no consequence to actions? No. For example, you notice that this person has become a bully and you ask them, why are you bullying your friend? It's because I found it at home. My mother fights my dad. We don't take that. You will correct behavior. But now after you correct behavior, because we already say, before you can take somebody for counseling, first of all, this person go through the, the consequence of that behavior. After this person has gone through the concept, for example, you did something wrong, you will be punished. After you undergo punishment, then you'll go to see the guidance and counseling department, they'll be able to help you so that you can now come to terms. So we still, we still, punish or we still give consequences to the crime committed. If you don't, you'll be rewarding bad behavior. Okay. And something rewarded is likely to repeat itself. So they'll feel like bullying. So we continue to become more bullies. So who's at home inside here? What about that child who's now the one being bullied because of what they've experienced? So now they're fearful and they're silent. So how do you treat them? Now that one, you nurture them, you take them through the counseling process, want to heal, to forgive themselves, to forgive their parents. Then you teach them coping skills, coping mechanism. You teach them assertiveness. You know, if you are assertive, a bully will not be able to deal with you. Assertive means when I say no, I mean no. And I'm not guilty about it. That is assertive behavior. So this person, this bully who comes and wants to manipulate you and you want to be like, no, I know my rights. You see, he will not do anything else. And they manipulate you so that you don't report on me and I will report you. So they know you cannot just have your way out. So we teach them assertiveness. And is there any difference in terms of proximity, you know, for a child who is always witnessing the violence and a child who is usually in the room or told to go to the room once the violence is going on? There is not much difference because I told you that now that receives pain is the same, physical or emotional. Now, I think it is more torturing. This one who is within the vicinity might come out to bruise them injured because somehow you're trying to separate. So it is very stressful and very traumatic. But picture now these are the person who was locked in their bedroom. But as hearing the mother say, you are more stressed while you're there. You have more torture when you're there. You are not sure what to do and you feel locked up. So not much that you can do. So it is doing them a lot of damage, a lot of damage in terms of their self esteem, in terms of their personality, in terms of everything. And parents shape the personality of children. That one never, nobody should even discuss anything about that. They shape their personality. You want this child to become aggressive. They will expose them to aggression. They will become very aggressive. I didn't tell you that these teenagers who have found themselves in this kind of domestic various relationship, they are not empathetic. They are as hard as a rock. How are their feelings? They have seen it all in life. I've seen somebody holding a knife. I've seen a gun. I've had gunshots in my neighborhood. In what? They have seen nothing scares them. They are, and these are the people, you would find that even in future, kua is not an issue. Stabbing somebody is not an issue. You've been exposed to too much violence. So that is a norm, it's a norm to you. Oh yeah, it's a norm to you. So when you find somebody is not empathetic, you should be worried. That person is inhuman, can do anything. So it is as a result of domestic violence at home. Okay. And we've spoken mostly about the physical violence and how it affects the children. Yes. What about these other forms of violence, the abusive violence, the financial violence, how does it affect the children? It equally affects. Okay, the physical ones affect them because now it's what they are seeing. Somebody could be going through emotional violence, like maybe the mother, verbal insults and everything. They will also be affected, but not as much as these other, you know, you know, you're an insult and you couldn't do anything. But sometimes you find that the victim goes through them silently. You are told to terminate a baby. So maybe the society is not even aware that that is happening. So it is more. But once the mother is sharing this, all the children are seeing the mother being abused and what they can also pick something from it. I told you what is good for that is also good for me. So they could also pick like, okay, women are supposed to be insulted. So they'll pick some insult. And you wonder at your age. Had they had that at home, what they had is actually what they are repeating. So it also affects children. And is there a role that the society, you know, is to play in ensuring that these children are shielded from this situation? Maybe, you know, they're already in that family and you can't force the parents to divorce at this point. So is there a role that society can play? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Number one, we talk of, there's what we call agents of socialization. One of them is school. As a school, is there enough personnel in the guidance and counseling department? Is there a counseling department that can handle these children? Because if you empower them from school, they can handle the issues at home. Other than school, the church, because this 80% of Kenyans are Christian. So these 80% that are Christian, we assume that they fight at home and they also go to church. In church, preach to them. In as much as you tell them there is heaven, let them know that we're supposed to create that heaven here on earth. So you teach them the effects of battling, effects of domestic violence and everything at a church setup. We also talk about now the society. There is law. The chief and everyone, today I think when people having issues about parenting and what one can share with the chief, isn't it? So the chief can't mean handy. They know that they are suffering because the parents are fighting. And most people who fight unakuta, maybe they even under the influence of drugs. The alcoholics, so the mother fights, the father fights, they break things and everything. So the chief and the society, they look and come in and see how to rescue those children and maybe rehabilitate the parents if it need be. Okay, finally, as we come to an end of this conversation, my co-host had asked a question earlier. Are there communities or ethnic groups that are more prone to domestic violence than others? Yes, sure. It's only that time do not allow us to go through now what we call gender-based violence so that we can ask what causes that. There are things we call gender stereotypes, some issues. You must have heard some people say men are better drivers than women. It's a stereotype, it's not true. It's something, it's a rumor that is neither here nor there. We have women drivers who are very good, isn't it? Now we have stereotypes and you find that some stereotypes will want the woman to be inferior, the woman to be at home and what. So you find that their cultures that have elevated the man to be the king up there and the woman to be down there. So the woman is there to be had and not to be seen. So if such a woman tries to fight for her right or to communicate to be had, they are intimidated and put down. So there are cultures that you'll find that domestic violence is higher than others. Talk about financial, financially. People who are financially empowered and people who are not financially empowered, these people who are battling poverty are likely to fight more. How do you fight when you have money? And even when you have money and you're fighting, your fight is on another level. But these ones, they are physical, you punch, you do what you call on the insults that you know in this world. So in terms of financial capability, you find that there are some regions that are disadvantaged, there are some families that are disadvantaged. They are fighting because of the some issues, because they are fighting maybe they are poor, they didn't get quality education, they didn't get to do much about family planning. So they have 10 children, they don't have enough food to feed them. How do you think that home will look like? Very chaotic. Very chaotic. The rate of crime will be very high. You're struggling to survive. So you expect some regions to have that kind of the rate to be higher than others. Talk of even people who know God, people who don't know God. So a place where people are more into drugs. For example, alcohol is in the wife drinks, the husband drinks, and this is not the common social drink that we know of. Alcohol when taken in small amount is a stimulant drug. When taken in huge amounts, it becomes depressant. So I'm talking of these people who are into that kind of alcoholism, they will fight a lot. But sober people, people who are now not into drugs, they are sober. So there are areas that you expect these violence to be higher as compared to others based on some factors. Thank you very much. It's been an incredible incredible discussion. Always a pleasure having you. So now tell people where they can find it. This is your camera and your final one as we close. All right. All right. Thank you so much. My final word is to say this. We want to bring up a generation. And I always say that things don't go wrong. They start wrong. So if you want to nurture your child, start it early enough so that you'll be able to help them. So you can find me for more content on FB, Facebook, that is Zipi Wanieki. You can follow me on YouTube. My YouTube channel is Zipora Wanieki. On Instagram, you can find me at Wanieki1Zipora. And be blessed. Thank you very much. That has been Zipora Wanieki, a counselor and a teacher and a trainer talking to us about effects of domestic violence on children. And she's an advocate for, you know, mental health, for peaceful living. And of course, talking against domestic violence is what she came to do today. And we celebrate, we celebrate her and other women who are doing such incredible things in our society. So now we're going to take a short break and then we'll be back with Valentine for WCW. Don't go too far.