 Welcome back to the breakfast and plus TV Africa time for us to look at our second conversation will be focused on the accountant general of the Federation and his fraudulent activities of 80 billion Naira. The Economic and Financial Crimes Commission EFCC has arrested the accountant general of the Federation AGF Ahmed Idris over 80 billion Naira fraud. EFCC spokesman Wilson Wajering confirmed his arrest in a statement issued on Monday. He said Idris was arrested after failing to honor the commission's invitation to respond to issues connected to fraudulent act according to the EFCC. The fraud were laundered via real estate investment in Kano and Abuja. We have Mohammed Abdulahi, a public affairs analyst joining the conversation this morning to make sense of all of this. Mohammed Abdulahi, thank you so much for being part of the breakfast. Good morning my juniors, thank you for having me. It's all right. Let's show your thoughts on these development that we have 80 billion Naira and the accountant general involved in novel of this. What do you make of this incident and do you think it's a plus to the EFCC? I think to start first and foremost we need to give kudos to the EFCC. We all understand what is happening in our country but things are not really well. I can categorically say in most part of almost all the sectors of our economy and even our nation at large things are not going well but we must give kudos to the EFCC for what they've been doing thus far. But again having said that, this latest development actually confirms that if we were to be very honest with ourselves, the anti-corruption drive of this present administration is not something that is really working like they want us to believe because if after seven years of President Muhammad Perry with the change and I mean the corruption mantra that brought anti-corruption mantra, I beg your pardon, that brought this administration apart and we still have after seven years of this administration we still have this kind of monumental incidences I would say. It means I don't think the anti-corruption drive of this administration has been well achieved. So it is really unfortunate even though circumstances at this moment are still very sketchy because the EFCC just said they understand that there is about 80 billion pounds which are learned in properties and so on and so forth. But I think why they went ahead to arrest the attorney general of the federation is the fact that they mentioned that they've been issuing him a kind of invite. They've been asking him, they've been inviting him to their offices and he's been dodging, refusing to honor the invitation. That's why they had to arrest him. So at this moment I would say the circumstances are still, information is still very sketchy about what's actually transpired. But be that as it may, let's give kudos to EFCC for job well done. All right, Mohammed, let's talk about the system and all the loopholes. Don't you think it actually gives way for these crimes to be perpetrated? For instance, now according to the statement the EFCC issued it said their intelligence showed that the AGF raked off the funds through bogus consultancies and other illegal activities using proxies, family members and close associates. Do you think that our systems, financial systems and approaches make it easy for such crimes to be perpetrated? We're talking about 80 billion naira. Yeah, we've had these occurrences every now and then. And let me start by saying that the office of the accountant general of the federation was created in 1988 and you can imagine an office that was created in 1988. If you take your phone now or whatsoever device and you Google office of the accountant general of the federation Nigeria, you will find very sketchy information, very, very scanty, I must say scanty information. In fact, I was trying to find it on that particular office. There is no terms of reference available for the public to understand what this kind of important office is all about. Like I tell you, if you make a search about that office, you only find one single page on that website, one single page with the picture of Mr. Idris Ahmed and a little description reviewed with grammatical errors I must confess. Say the office of the attorney, this is the office of the accountant general of the federation and hello, are you there? Then we can hear you, go ahead. Yes, yes, this is the office of the accountant general of the federation and the functions of this office is that it is this office is actually the administrative head of the treasury of the federation republic of Nigeria and that is it. All other links on that website doesn't work. You can click on anything and they take you anywhere just one page office of the accountant general of the federation of the federation republic of Nigeria. So, you know, be that as it may, like we like you rightly mentioned, the system is so cumbersome, the system is so ambiguous that, you know, it doesn't give room for accountability because it's it it buckles the mind that in this time in this time at age in this age age that you have the accountant general of the federation has the which responsibility of about 80 billion to do what? He's not he's not a he's not a elected officer. So what does he do? Does he does he does he give out contract? Does he sign contract? What does he do? I remember another drama about the same accountant general last year when he was defending the budget for his office. In fact, he has a very he had a very he had a logger head with him called Palake at the house of rest representative when he presented 36 million for communication of the office of the accountant general office nationwide. You know, so, you know, our system makes it so difficult for us to be accountable for public service officers to be accountable. And it's so so unfortunate at this stage. But Mohammed Abdullah in the course of this conversation, you have said that the fight against corruption in the Buhari administration is nothing to write home about. I mean, it's not real. As a matter of fact, after seven years, you still have this. Why such statement? Yes. If you cast your mind back just a month ago, or even less, this administration actually approved the recommendation for presidential pardon of about 162 or so convicted inmate, ranging from in fact, ranging from fraudsters, people who have been convicted for forgery, people who have been convicted for stealing up to hundreds of millions. And notable among these people are people who have been convicted by EFCC for for for public stealing, like like like the ex governor of play two states, Joshua Dariye and the former governor of Tarabas State, Reverend John Inyami. So why do you set up an institution like the EFCC and the ICPC, which was set up actually by former president, Olusheva Mombasanjo, and then after so much effort, it does not only require effort, it requires time and also the resources of the taxpayers of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. Then just at the snap of a finger, people who are sad with the responsibility of, you know, ensuring a corrupt free Nigeria starting from the president, you know, will sit down somewhere and say, okay, we can just give these guys presidential pardon. That is really, really unfortunate. In fact, that singular event, that singular pronouncement by the president and his couples really downplayed the fight against corruption. It really makes it looks very childish that this is what the president has been writing. This is what the president has been clamoring that he's coming to fight corruption in Nigeria. And then why EFCC has secured, you know, conviction of some people for forgery and public stealing. Then the same president is approving the recommendation of presidential pardon for same convicted criminals. I'm sorry. So it is really unfortunate. And let me add, you see, the next statesman, an icon, global icon, Mandela actually mentioned that you judge a nation by the way it treats its elite citizen. Rather, you judge a nation by the way they treat their downtrodden in Nigeria is the other way around. How many of petitives, I'm not encouraging petitive here, please get me right, but how many petitives who have gone to the market to steal one or two products, probably they are hungry or how many of petitives who have stolen probably 10,000, 20,000 from where so ever have been granted presidential pardon. You have people who have stolen billions in publish their community, impoverished Nigeria and Nigerians and their granted presidential pardon. Definitely, this is not how to fight corruption. But just how far do you think this particular investigation would actually go? I hope it will not be swept. Do you think it will just take its full course or it might just be swept under the carpet? I don't think it would be swept under the carpet because, you know, what EFCC are doing is to some extent a media trial. So when they are about to nail any king team, they bring it out here. So, for instance, if you Google about the accountant general of the federation, what you find mostly now is the issue about his arrest. So I am sure the EFCC will not want to sweep this kind of story under the carpet. It's too bogus and too big a story to be swept under the carpet. So I want to give the EFCC the better position without to say they will go ahead. They will try their very possible best to make sure that justice is done. But do you see the justice system? I mean, because the argument that's been put out now is that the justice system, it's okay to see he's been arrested, he's been found, you know, capable of taking 80 billion nair. What would happen? Because all of the reactions right now is that the justice system would actually not serve its purpose. So it's possible that he would actually, you know, be exonerated in all of this. It is very possible. Remember that everywhere all over the world, not only in Nigeria, all over the world, justice is based on evidence and argument. In fact, sometimes even if you have black and you're able to prove to the judge that this is white, you can get away with that offense. So it is very important that the EFCC make sure they have a case, not only a case, they should ensure that it's a case that is very much presentable, and they have all the available evidences to make sure that if the counter-general of the federation is found guilty, that we serve justice accordingly. Remember, the former, if you remember, I think just two months ago, even less, the former group manager, the director of the NMPC, what's his name? It's something Yakubu, I've forgotten his first name, yeah, was exonerated after more than two, three, four years of back and forth with the NMPC. He was accused of stockpiling US dollars, foreign currencies in his hometown in Keduna, but they were unable to mail him due to evidence available. He was able to prove to the court, to the Supreme Court, that these monies were given to him as gifts, and the FCC failed to provide such monies at the court to counter his claim. So the court set him free. So it's very important that the NMPC learns their lessons from so many cases that they won't do over the years. It's not just one case. It's very important that they do their homework very well so that if they have available evidences to nail the counter-general of the federation, the justice and the court will have no option than to serve justice. But just before we'll let you go, just what does he tell of this present dispensations and stands on anti-corruption or anti-graft war? Because before now there were talks of Ibrahim Margo, and eventually he was interested. There was talk of the AGF Marl and me, and buying cars when he's still in office, and no investigation has been done. There are so much, lots of people in this administration being alleged to have committed one crime or the other. It's the same issue that I've been discussing earlier on. I told you that rather than convict people, particularly elite, for their one-ton corruption cases, we have actually rewarded them. One of the reward is presidential pardon, one. And you just reminded me. Just same yesterday, while the story broke out that the counter-general of the federation has been arrested for evading EFTC invitation, blah, blah, blah. Same Ibrahim Margo that was, I want to use the word disgrace out of office that was suspended from the same EFTC that has been pushed aside for so long. We actually don't know, even though he's a police officer, we actually don't know whether he's still active service or not, was elevated to the position of assistant inspector general of police, same yesterday. Despite the clear evidences by the reports that were constituted against him, to say he used this office as the chairman of EFTC to do so many wrongs. But he was virtually rewarded. Even though they are talking about him, it was called retiring soon from the police force. But how do you reward an officer that served the EFTC as chairman and you have damn little reports against such officer? Even though he's not been convicted by the local, but there were independent reports about him to say he's done so much wrong. But again, the Nigerian system that we keep mentioning has just rewarded him with assistant inspector general of police. That's actually the third highest rank in the cadre of the police institution in Nigeria. So that's what we talk about. You can't say you want to fight corruption and you keep rewarding people who are corrupt. You understand? It doesn't work that way. It's not possible. And it's so, so unfortunate that we find ourselves in such a precarious situation in Nigeria. All right, thank you so much, Mr. Mohamed Abdullai. We've been looking at the arrest of the nation's accountant general over 80 billion. We do appreciate your time, Mohamed. Well, thank you so much for being part of the breakfast. We appreciate your thoughts, as always. We wish you the very best today as you proceed in the course of your activities. That's the size of the conversation on the breakfast. We will call it a wrap here and return tomorrow. Now, if you missed out on any part of it, it's all right to follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram and do subscribe to YouTube channel with plus TV Africa and plus TV Africa lifestyle. I am Messi Boko. And I'm Justin Akademi and many things will be in the part of the show.