 Okay, so the recording is on. Welcome everyone to our class on BC212, Christian apologetics. This is our final week, so it's going to be our final two lectures. We've got a little bit of ground to cover, and hopefully we should be able to cover that. Just wanted to request somebody in the class to lead us in prayer, and then we will get started, please. Jesus, we thank you for this beautiful morning that you've blessed us with, Lord. And thank you for this opportunity and for this time that we can come together and learn more of your word. And Lord Jesus, I pray that you will help Pastor Ashes as he teaches us more about the truth and that we will be able to gain the knowledge as well as apply it. Thank you, Father, that we submit this time into your hands. Jesus, I pray, amen. Amen. Thank you. Alright, so we were in our second last chapter, which is we're trying to get a biblical understanding of suffering. We've covered quite a bit of portions on that. We've got a few more, maybe two more thoughts to cover, which we will do right now. We'll quickly review what we have been looking at. So lesson number 15, we're talking about a biblical understanding of suffering. Why is there suffering and so on? How do we understand it? Theologically. So we said we have to begin with God's heart, understand the heart of God. It is not His intent to cause pain and sorrow and tears. We don't see it in the garden of Eden and we don't see it in the new happens and the new up. It's taken up. So that's the heart of God and we need to look at things from that perspective. Secondly, then we said, okay, yeah, it is a present reality. We are now in between those two here, between the fall and the glorious redemption that's there. And so it is a present reality. We are the people that there is suffering and there is suffering in all realms, spiritual, emotional and physical. So why is there suffering? What are the different reasons? And then what is our response? How do we look at it? How do we endure it? So we are looking at six reasons, biblical theological reasons that we can give for suffering by it's there. So we said first there is suffering due to the bondage of corruption, which Paul shares with us in Romans and also in 2 Corinthians. There is a suffering due to one's own actions. So we make mistakes, we do wrong things. There's the consequences of that. What about a man's soul? He will also read. There is suffering due to satanic oppression, meaning the devil is out to steal, kill and destroy. And so there is an enemy that's doing these things, causing these things. And so we must be aware of it. God has given us weapons to counter those things, to stand against those things. Then there is suffering due to other people's actions, including persecution. That means people do evil things. There is sin, wickedness and all kinds of jealousy and hatred and all these things. So people do things and there is suffering because of the actions of people. And we as believers may face that in different contexts. It could be the workplace, it could be in other situations where we will face it. But we must submit to God and trust God that he will bring us up. Now, in that context, there's this whole issue of divine protection versus persecution. Will God always protect us from what people do to us? And we see that we can and we should believe God for divine protection. But we also see that there are people who will face the actions of people. Almost all the disciples and Jesus, the apostles were martyred. That means God didn't protect them or God didn't prevent them from being killed. And God killed for the sake of the gospel and for the name of Jesus Christ. So there is both. There are times when you're experiencing divine protection. There will be times when the actions of people affect believers. Now, we don't always understand the dynamic. Why is it that some people suffer persecution, are killed, lose their lives? We don't always understand that, but we know that we can believe God for protection. But we do not love our lives even to the point of death. And if that's what's going to be required, we are committed to that. That means we will hold on to our faith and Jesus till that point. Why doesn't God always prevent people, his people from being martyred, protected, etc. We don't understand. We believe that to God. That's a mystery that we definitely don't have a clear answer for. So our response is we believe that God will protect us, deliver us from every evil work. And if we need to die, we would be ready to do that. Number five, there is suffering because of divine discipline and judgment. So divine discipline is when God is correcting us as believers. We are walking with Him, we are sincere, but in areas that we need correction, God will correct us. And He will correct us primarily through His Word, through the Scriptures, through the promptings of the Spirit, and through other people. So three ways that God lovingly corrects us. He brings the discipline into our lives. And even that discipline may not be easy to receive. Because we have the flesh to deal with and we need to be willing to yield to that discipline. So that itself is a process of suffering or yielding to it. In some situations it will be wonderful, easy to do. In some situations where the flesh is in the way, it's going to be difficult, painful. But that's part of God's loving correction for those of us who are walking in line with God. Now there is the other side where if people are out of the will of God. I mean they're wandering away from God, wandering in sin and so on. There we do see divine judgment in order to draw people to Himself. It's not judgment to push people away when God draws people to Himself. So even in judgment there is mercy. So this judgment could take place where God may use human elements to do this or get people's attention. And the whole thing is to draw people to Himself and not to push people away. But this is in the case when people have gone away from God. So there is mercy, there is grace. But then when we walk away from that place of mercy and grace, there are times when we see in scripture God will, there is divine judgment. And God brings people and we see that even taking place in the house of God in the church. We see an anise in Sapphira. We see the end man at Corinth at Paul says you've got to take action against him. Paul writes about Hymenius and Alexander. People who once were in the faith, they've gone away from the faith and now they're disturbing the people who are in faith. And so Paul says you know I give them up to Satan. So that means he's saying look now they're outside. You know I'm not here to protect them. God will just give them up and they're going to face the consequences of what they're doing. Hopefully they will turn back to God. That's how they respond to it is different. It's entirely up to people. But then we see that in scripture, divine judgment. So that's something we must keep in mind. The last reason is also suffering due to willing sacrifice. That means we are willingly taking this on. Jesus said you must take up our cross and follow him. The cross symbolizes or represents a place of suffering. It's a place of separation from the world. It's a place of sacrifice. That's the cross. So you take it on willingly. You carry your cross. I mean you're willingly saying Lord I'm willing to suffer. I'm willing to separate myself from the world. I'm willing to make sacrifices. So this is something we do willingly. And then we may suffer for it. So what do you mean? That means we give up certain pleasures. We face certain consequences of choosing to serve the Lord. Of choosing to pursue God's plan for our lives. So there is that suffering that comes in there. Discomfort maybe. Maybe even the displeasure of people or the disapproval of people so on and so forth. Suffering can come in those in those manner. So we see for example Abraham. He left his family left his own country. He went away. Moses. He gave up his privileges that he could have enjoyed in Egypt in order to step out and be with the people of God. Paul. He travels so much. He endured so much hardship, physical hardship in order to bring the gospel to people. That was something he chose willingly. And yes, there was demonic opposition. People attacked him. And there were things he did willingly saying I'm willing to take up this sacrifice in order to take the gospel to people. So these are willing sacrifices. They put us in a place of hardship. But we do it for the glory of God, for the purpose of God. Now, of course we must keep in mind that we need to do our sacrifices led by the Holy Spirit rather than our own fleshly sacrifices. What do we mean by fleshly sacrifice? It means things that I do just to make myself feel good and God really doesn't want me to do that. Example. Just given as an example. Some of us God may say, I want you to give your entire life to the preaching of the gospel. Some of us God may say, I want you to work a job and serve me. Now, if that's the call of God, and somebody God has called somebody to do that, but that person just gives up their job. They don't want to work. And they say, no, I'm going to serve God. And then they face the consequences of that decision, which is maybe they don't have enough money, they're struggling financially, et cetera. That kind of suffering is a fleshly sacrifice because that is not what God wanted them to do, but they did it themselves, their own choice. And they can think that they're suffering for the sake of Christ, but actually it's a choice they made out of the will of God. God's will was for them to work, earn and serve. But they chose not to do it. Now that's a fleshly sacrifice because that's not the will of God. Now would God help them in spite of it? Yeah, there's mercy. So in spite of those wrong choices, God would be merciful, help them through it. But that is a fleshly sacrifice because it's not something God wanted them to do for themselves. So we must understand that it's important for us and whatever we do, we understand God's will. Now there is suffering according to the will of God, which means that when we are doing righteousness or we're standing for the name of Christ, people will do things against us. That is what we would say suffering according to the will of God. That means God says, look, that's part of your life on earth. Just stand. Don't give up. People will persecute us for righteousness sake. People will persecute us for standing up for our faith in Christ. That's suffering according to the will of God. And it's God's will that we stand through that suffering. We don't give up on it. Then there is suffering that's not according to the will of God. What is it? Our own wrong doing, right? We do wrong things. That's not the will of God. Or suffering because of demonic opposition, oppression. The devil does things. God says, look, I've given you the weapons. You fight those things. Don't accept it. You fight those things. So understand the distinction. What is suffering according to the will of God and suffering not according to the will of God? This is not God's will for us as believers. So these are things we can correct ourselves. These are things we endure joyfully, knowing that it brings glory to God. And God is glorified through that kind of suffering. I'll cover the rest of this chapter and then we'll take questions. So this leads us to this part. Why? What is the benefit of experiencing or enduring suffering? Why does God love that? Why couldn't God have said, if you believe in Jesus, you will not suffer. You will have no pain, no sorrow for the rest of your life. Why does He allow us to go through this? Why does He allow us to endure? What is the good that's coming out of this? Well, we need to keep in mind that, this is what the scriptures teach us that first of all, enduring hardship is going to help build character. And that is one of the important ways by which character is developed in our lives. That's the way we can prove our character. Of course, character is developed in us through the word of God, through the work of the Holy Spirit. The character of praise is formed in us. But how can you prove it? How can you show that you have that in you? The only way you can show it is by living it out and living it out through adversity. It's easy to say, oh, praise the Lord and everything is going good. That's easy. But can we still praise the Lord when things are tough, things are difficult, we've got challenges, we've got pressure. Can we still say praise the Lord? So that's where we actually prove our character. And we're able to do that, that reinforces or strengthens our character and we keep going from glory to glory. And the scriptures teach us about that. Secondly, this why does God allow us to go through these things? Because through these, God actually carries out the pruning that's needed for us to be more fruitful. What is pruning? Pruning is taking away the unnecessary things. So Jesus used the analogy of the vine and the branches and he said, you know, if any branch in me is bearing fruit, what am I going to do? What is the Father going to do? He's going to prune it so that it can be more fruitful. So your bearing fruit, the way to become more fruitful is to let God prune us. What is pruning? The unnecessary things. So how would God do that? Of course, he would do it by his word, by speaking towards by his spirit, through the influence of Godly people and also through the adversity, the pressure we face. Things will be taken out. The unnecessary things taken out, but it's always bringing us to a place of greater fruitfulness so we can look at the positive effects of going through adversity or suffering that it's actually going to lead us to a place of greater fruitfulness. And number three, what is a good that comes out of it? That somehow through that, what we endure, the kingdom of God is advanced through our lives. That we endure hardship, but God's kingdom is advanced. We may make the sacrifices, but God's kingdoms are God's. Other people are blessed. His word goes forth. Other believers are encouraged. So that's the good that comes out of it. We may face the hardship, but his kingdom is extended. His kingdom is furthered through our lives. So these are three things we should just remember. Look, if and when we suffer, according to the will of God, remember these three things, our characters being strengthened, we are going to be more fruitful in our lives, and the kingdom of God is going to be furthered or extended through our lives, through the sacrifices that we make. The last point, the last two points that we want to consider here, and then we'll take questions, is what should our posture be when we face them? How should we go through it? Well, some thoughts here. One, the scriptures teach us to maintain our joy. You know, count it all joy, brethren. James says, when you endure temptations, trials, tribulations, count it all joy because the trying of your faith produces patience or endurance, and when endurance has completed its work, you will come out perfect, lacking in nothing. So while we're going through it, through the hardship, we need to maintain our joy, stay joyful. Is there going to be, is it going to be discomforting? Yeah, of course. We press down. We feel crushed. Do we feel persecuted? Do we feel perplexed? Yeah, all those things will come, as Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians chapter 4. Those emotions will be there, but we can choose to maintain our joy. You still choose to look to God and praise them and say, God, I know that these afflictions are temporary. I'm looking at what is eternal. I'm living for what is eternal. Therefore, I can be joyful going through what I'm going through. Second is, we consider the good that is happening and we pray. Is any among you afflicted that can pray? That's what James says. I mean, you're going through some afflictions, hardships, trials. What do you do? Pray. And you give thanks to God. You're many, sing songs. So think about the good that's coming out of it. And you just pray and say, God, give me the strength to stay faithful. Give me the strength to go joyfully through this. Unwavering in my faith as I go through this. And as Paul wrote, point number three is, we look at what is eternal. So Paul says, while we do not look at what is temporal, what is unseen, what is seen is temporal, what is not seen is eternal. So that's how we go through it. Our eyes are what is eternal. Our eyes are looking unto Jesus. Our eyes are looking unto the glory that God has for us. So we keep our eyes on that. So then we know that even as we go through these things, we can stay firm, stand strong, and endure it. So maintain your joy, pray, keep looking at what's eternal. Three things we do when we endure these hardships. Now, we talk a little bit about persecution. Persecution is when people are attacking us specifically for our faith and for righteousness' sake. That means because we believers in Jesus, and because we do what's right, we want to stand for the truth. We want to stand for integrity. We want to stand for uprightness. We don't want to compromise on those things. And we be persecuted. They might speak mean things against us. They might try to harm us. They might try to attack us in one way or another. That's persecution. For righteousness' sake or for the gospel's sake. What do we do? One, take needed precaution. So let's start here. Support those who are being persecuted. So sometimes we may not ourselves face it, but others may be facing it. Do what we can to help them. Now, of course, we can't help everybody that people being persecuted all over the world. We don't even know. But at least in situations where you know somebody is being affected, do what you can to help them. Support those who are being persecuted. Secondly, take needed precaution. Right? So Jesus said in Matthew 10, if they're persecuted in one city, you go to another. He didn't say stay there and get killed. No. If they're persecuted in one, you go to a safer place. Go to another city. Why? Because if you're alive, you can serve the purpose of God. You know. So it's not that we're afraid to die, but we want to take precaution. So that we can continue serving God, continue standing for the truth, continue proclaiming the truth as long as possible on the earth. So take needed precaution. It's not wrong to take needed precaution. Third, we are not terrified. Just, and that means there's no fear. Yes, there will be persecution. Those who are godly, Paul wrote in the Philippines 128, he says, those who are godly will suffer persecution. He says, know that you're called to suffer for his name's sake. So it's part of our calling. We know those who are godly, Paul wrote in Timothy, he said, those who are godly will suffer persecution. So it's part of our calling. We are not afraid. We stand firm. Be protection minded. That means don't say, oh, sorry spelling mistake here. Be protection minded. Be conscious of God protecting you, rather than, oh, I'm going to suffer. Be protection minded, not persecution minded. Don't keep talking about persecution all the time. It's there. We know it's part of our calling, but we are going to believe in God who protects us. And endure to the end. That means you say, you're committed to the Lord. No matter what's going to happen, I'm going to stand to this the end of time. One other point I will add is if needed, we can take legal action. Do whatever is permissible within civil law for your own safety, for your protection. And we see Paul the Apostle doing this. When he was apprehended attacked by the Jews and handed it to the Romans, his simple question was, hey, he told them. He said, hey, I am a Roman citizen. Immediately, they had to treat him differently because you cannot arrest and put a Roman citizen in the flesh. Paul said, I'm a Roman citizen. I was born in Tarsus. Though he was a Jew, because he was born in the city of Tarsus, those who were born there were given the privilege of being a Roman citizen. So he said, I'm a Roman citizen. Immediately, they took their hands off. They said, hey, we can't do this. So they released him and then he said, I'm appealing to Caesar. He had a right to appeal to Caesar. So they said, okay, if you appeal to Caesar, we have to bring you to Caesar. That means at their expense, at the expense of the Roman government, they had to take him all the way to Rome so that he could appeal to Caesar, which is like the Supreme Court, if you want to look at it. In other words, he was exercising his civil rights as a Roman citizen and Paul did that. So we also must understand that we can, whatever is permitted within the law we can exercise our rights as citizens of the country for our own protection and the exercise of our religious freedom. So that's perfectly fine. So these are some things to keep in mind all in the context of suffering and persecution. How do we look at it? What should our response be? And so on. Let me pause here and take questions from the subject. I know it's a big topic, but feel free to please ask your questions at this time. Any questions? Were you all following me? Or okay. Fine. Shall we move forward? Are there any questions? We can take them now. If not, we will move forward. Okay. I'm going to move forward and please feel free to ask any questions so that things can be clear. Okay. So let's go to the next chapter. I don't hesitate to ask questions. Just give me a minute. There's somebody at the door. I just need to answer. Just give me a minute. I'll be right back. Okay. Thank you. So there's a question here on the chat with friends saying can death also be counted as suffering? Where we may face many loss in our lives. So the subject of death can it be counted as suffering? So I mean one, how will that build our character? One Yes. Okay. Let's look at it from different angles. One is if a person is going to be martyred for Christ that is suffering for the sake of Jesus and how will that build character of obviously it will build character in the leading up to that as a obviously when we die we are no longer on this side of heaven but in leading up to the point of being martyred it's going to build our character. That means it's going to strengthen our resolve it's going to strengthen our commitment to Christ and it's going to increase our love for Jesus. I love you so much I'm willing to die for you and we stand that test until a person as we live as you're martyred. So in that sense that is a suffering for Christ we face the loss of our own lives what good has it done it has strengthened our resolve, increased our love for Christ and it has enabled us to demonstrate Jesus said it like this in John 15 greater love has no man than this that a man laid down his life for his friend and this is the highest expression of love and so in leading up to that our expression of love our commitment to Jesus is strengthened. So in that sense it builds our character. Now if you look at that as in a natural process meaning every person is appointed to die once so in that sense we would not look at it as a suffering but we would look at it as a natural process. Every person has to die. It is appointed unto man once to die. Now although that takes place could be not only different base but different people that itself just like the life on earth ends it will end for every person. So that itself we won't consider suffering for the person who died. Now obviously for the people who are alive they go through grief they go through loss it's part of our life here on earth for everyone. So again wouldn't it for that our response to the loss of a loved one is entirely it's variable and how people respond to it varies so and some look at suffering because there's so much of grief and so much of pain in it some are able to handle it more positively so that varies that experience varies but should we always say it's suffering I don't think so because we know it's part of life it's happened to everyone and it is appointed unto us once to die. So there's a follow-up question what about losing a loved one so some people they say it has a lot of meaning because you wanted to teach me something well the fact is when we lose a loved one there's always grief and it happens to everybody believer on believer on there is grief when you lose a loved one and and we all face it it's all part of life so I don't we find our comfort and strength in God but I don't think it's to say God took that person away in order to teach me something it's part of our part of our life on earth and I think it's wrong to say God took that person away to teach me something no what we should say is I'm learning something about God as I go through this loss right so we do learn more about God as we journey through life through all of life situations one of which is the loss of a loved one but we don't attribute that loss to God but we say I am learning it depends on God to my comfort my strength I think that's the right way to state it rather than saying God took that person away in order to teach me something so I think our perspective needs to change, it needs to be more biblical if we speak of it and yes we will learn sometimes learning to trust in God and depend on God as we go through loss and other situations in life is that okay alright let's move to our next chapter and then we will take some questions as well on that so the last chapter we want to talk about is social challenges no so there's a lot of things happening in society the world around us right so the question is how should the church respond to this and then different challenges and there probably are going to be new things coming up in days to come how do we respond to it how should we respond to these challenges as believers so what we want to do in this chapter rather than trying to address every situation we want to give a framework by which we can guide our thought in days to come if there are going to be new challenges different challenges at least we will know how to think about those challenges from a biblical framework right so what is the church's responsibility first Timothy chapter 3 verse 15 the apostle Paul tells us that the church is the pillar and ground of truth pillar representing upholding ground meaning foundation so the church must be the upholder and the foundation of truth in this world so while there's a lot of things happening in the world in society the church must stand strong it must uphold truth it must be the foundation of truth so if people want to know what is truth what is right the church must stand that way so the question is how do we uphold truth and still be a voice in all of these complex things that are happening around us the social challenges how do we uphold truth and still relate to people in a healthy way so that we can draw them to faith in Christ rather than push them away right and then it leads us to several questions meaning should the church be involved in trying to pass legislature make sure all the laws are biblical etc or is the church called to be engaged in the spiritual realm or should the church to vote so we need to think about those things and find a preferred answer so we'll give a framework for this a biblical framework look at how God is dealing with sinners so that how does God deal with the world that has gone away from him does he keep on draining fire and brimstone every day saying you people have left me so I'm mad at you and angry with you and every day there's fire and brimstone on every person or how does God deal with us as sinners we have wandered away from God how does it relate to us here are some things first he never overrides our human will from the time Adam and Eve were in the garden God didn't control human will he respected choice he respected choice you have the freedom to choose so when God put Adam and Eve in the garden and he said look here's a tree of knowledge of good and evil, here's a tree of life don't eat of the tree of knowledge he respected the freedom he gave them so when Adam and Eve chose to eat of the tree he said they shouldn't eat he didn't fire and brimstone or he didn't manipulate their will no he respected their choice and the outcome of the choice he let it unfold so God respects human will and so we must also be respectful of other people's freedom to choose then how does God work with people he communicates to us what's right and wrong then he invites us to choose what's right in Deuteronomy 30 verse 19 God says I have said before you life and death, blessing and cursing choose life and God is saying look I'll tell you what's right I'll tell you what's wrong and I'm inviting you to do what's right but the choice is yours so he expresses that he communicates it but he doesn't force us he doesn't condemn us he tells us what's right then he says you make the choice God is willing to reason with us so we are sinners but he says okay let's reason together you bring your reasons why you're doing what you're doing come let's reason together he says you bring your reasons so God is willing to even reason with us both even while we are sinners God treats us with love and fairness and Jesus put it like this he said look what God does look at your heavenly Father he gives rain, he gives sun to the righteous and to the unrighteous to the just and to the unjust so he says be like your Father that means he treats everybody with love and fairness even the sinners he treats them with love and fairness that's God and number five while God is doing all these things he does not compromise truth he himself is truthful, holy, just love that doesn't change right so this is a framework to say let's be meditators of God this is of God is dealing with people who have broken his heart who have gone away from him they're doing all kinds of people and yet this is how God works with them he does not override their will he tells what's right and wrong he invites us to make the choice he's willing to reason with us he treats us with love and fairness but he does not compromise himself he is who he is he doesn't change so you and I must now take that same approach and then we are dealing with people who disagree with us and we're dealing with people who they want to fight or they want to do all kinds of things they communicate truth and love be willing to reason treat them with love and fairness don't compromise you don't personally compromise your conviction of truth and you stand by truth but don't force it on them don't try to override their will because God respects their will God respects their choice whatever it may be He still respects it that's our frame now there are many areas for the Bible assignment so what do we do we can't point to a chapter in words specifically and say this is what the Bible is saying about gene modification of gene editing there was no technology in those days to go and edit the genes but people are doing it and the Bible doesn't say there's no chapter in words we can speak from the nature of God we can speak from the general revelation of scripture and we can also speak from this biblical framework that we have how does God deal with people this how he deals with it so that's how we're going to respond to these things so we're going to address certain common social challenges we cover whatever we can but remember there will be other things coming up and dished come and we just have to keep this framework in mind and from that basis we approach various situations so think about marriage homosexuality and same-sex marriage now this is just increasing all over the world we've even tried in our own country in India they tried made an attempt to legalize same-sex marriage of course as of now that's not come through in our country so but in other parts of the world it's legally okay the civil government standing behind these kinds of things so how do we respond to it so one we know God created marriage to be one between one man and woman the Bible does not approve of this same-sex marriage homosexuality sin there will be several scriptures on it so we know it's wrong with a girl so that's our stand right but yet we love the people who may be involved in a homosexual lifestyle or in a same-sex marriage we love the people we do not approve of the sin and yet we don't compromise our stand so that's how we have to maintain the balance but then there are practical situations for example if you're a business owner and you're running a bakery and somebody, a gay couple comes and says hey it's our wedding can you make a cake for us now you're happy to make a cake every month but in this case you're making a cake which is going which is going to be used in a wedding of a gay couple or two of that how are you going to respond to it what are you going to do now we can take one of two approaches I'll just make the cake what you do with a cake is your problem I'm not involved in it and that's perfectly fine because we're not going to control people's choices you're the baker you bake the cake whether people go and take the cake and smash it on somebody else's head or if they take the cake whatever you say well that's not my responsibility that's one way of doing it or you could say well I do not stand for such matters therefore I will not make a cake that is going to be used in that context that's also a perfect decision so I think that decision should come from the individual's conviction in this case that person as a believer is free to make the decision and I feel that either way is fine it's between you and God the Bible says that each man be fully persuaded in his own mind and in one case you can say well look I honor these people they want to eat cake but they may be in the same sex marriage that is their choice I cannot dictate their choice police them in their marriage so I'm staying out of it I make cake I'll give them the cake they want that's one way of looking at it another person may say I don't want to be involved because I know that this is going to be used in the same sex marriage I don't want to be a part of it another believer may take that position each one stand by their conviction and we can't say this is right that's wrong you stand by your conviction and you handle that situation the way you feel it's right before God but your conscience is clear before God but a situation like this has gone up to legally it went to because this is one refuse to do it it went into this is in the United States again the civil court had to decide what they do want to do like this there are other situations what if you are the HR in an organization where you have to hire people regardless of their sexual orientation so obviously working the HR of an organization you're hiring people not because of their sexual orientation you're hiring people because of the skill they bring so let me pause here coming to a break we'll pick up after the break on this and we'll take this forward so let's go for a 10 minute break and we'll come back to this and I see some questions coming up in the chat we'll answer them as well okay let's be back in 10 minutes thank you