 Boom, what's up everyone? Welcome to Simulation. I'm your host Alan Sakyan. We are still on site in Brooklyn in New York. We are now going to be talking about all things comedy, all things writing, all things how we can learn from rejections. We have Emily Winter joining us. Hi. Thanks for coming on to the show. Yeah. Thanks for having me. I'm really excited for this conversation. I actually found Emily's work. She was on The Today Show last week. This is in January. This is a recording that's happening in January. I noticed how you were speaking about how important it was as a comedian, as a writer, as just anyone going through wanting to pursue their dreams, going through a period of getting rejected, putting yourself out there and getting accepted, getting rejected and all this kind of stuff. Anyway, I found you and I was like, I'm in New York. I want to talk to Emily. We've made this happen. I'm really excited. Here's a bit on Emily's background. Besides just being on The Today Show, her work has also appeared in The New Yorker and The New York Times on NPR, which she also writes for NPR's Ask Me Another. Also, she's been writing for about 15 years, doing comedy for about seven years. She also hosts her own podcast called How to Produce Live Comedy, which is really important because it helps people with understanding how to throw live events, which is so crucial. This is how we gain, build community and we learn. She's a former editorial director of Sparknotes and a bunch of other stuff. She's also at NBC, late night writers, workshop script judge. A bunch of cool background with Emily. I want to jump right into knowing about how you even came to realize writing, but before that, I really like having a big history perspective on things. I want to ask you about this. Humans find themselves now as stewards of Earth and humanity has gotten really complicated over the last 100 years with a massive population increase, massive exponential technologies now in the last couple of decades. Where do you see the current state of humanity? Oh boy. Well, I think it's a mess. I think you're right. Yeah, it's a big mess. I don't feel, I mean, I get really sad when I think about it and I'm like, oh, should I be like telling more jokes that will like turn people vegetarian? Like what is my, like what should, what's my role in this? And it's really hard. Like when you think about where we are and all of the sad things, like to just function in the world. So it's probably why I got into comedy because like it's just too sad. Sorry, was I supposed to be more upbeat? No, no, you're being realistic because it is, it's a little, it's a lot messy. It's a lot. Yeah, I mean, I'm engaged right now and I'm planning a wedding and like a very important part of, congrats. Oh, thank you. Nice. A very important part of like, you sure? 70 years? I hope so. But like, I don't want to have kids for this very reason. And I just, I feel like bringing another person into an overpopulated world is like, I'm lucky that I don't have the strong mommy feelings. And I think I understand people fighting that. But like, I definitely feel like it's not really the responsible thing to do. Now, maybe I'll get the feelings that my friends have that like, oh, I have to have a kid and I'll just say, I don't care if it's not responsible. I'm doing it anyway, because I just have to. But right now I just, I don't want to do that, you know, it just feels wrong. Damn, that's a really profound message because I feel very similarly that we have so many pressing issues that society's got to kind of like grow up from kindergarten. In many ways, ethically, morally, we have to figure out the resource flows amongst one another to raise the baseline of living for everyone more effectively. There's just not really space and time for people to be dedicating energy and resources towards procreating with. There's so many babies that need homes. Yeah. And this is like, there's different colors on the color rail. So there's certain people having six kids still in developing arts with certain people that have no kids. So there's different colors. But I'm glad that you're aware enough to be like, yo, I need to lay off. I need to see what I can do about mimetics or disseminating ideas to more people through comedy and through writing. I mean, I definitely don't feel like a good person. Like, I'm not like, oh my god, I'm like, out here doing the work trying to make the world a better place. My sister is an anthropologist and she really is trying to make the world a better place. So I'm like, eh, my parents did okay. One of the kids is doing the work and the other one's just kind of fucking around. But wait, can I swear on this? Okay. So, but I, yeah, I mean, I try where I can, but I don't compost. I'm not vegan. So I really cannot. I really can't say. Those are the two measurements. I don't do any, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then the, well, at least if we are potentially, you know, conscious of even even doing something like smiling when you walk down the street or not punching down when you're talking to people on the internet, right? These things also cascade big waves just like eating, not eating tons of meat or composting, things like that. Okay. We'll get more big history along the way. Emily, how does one even find themselves, you know, a decade and a half ago really enjoying writing and wanting to get deeper into it? How'd you find yourself there? I think I always liked writing. I was just, I kind of had a natural knack for it and I don't have a natural knack for many things. So that was like, oh, I'm going to pursue this. But I grew up in the Midwest and I didn't really know anything about like entertainment industry or comedy. And I don't know. I just, I majored in journalism and my first job out of college was writing for a newspaper in Wisconsin. And I just like didn't really, I couldn't really figure out beyond that how to be a writer beyond just like being a newspaper reporter or an author. And that seemed scary. So yeah. So I mean, I think I had to learn after college and like as college was ending, like it's actually being funny, doing funny writing that is your passion, which was scary because I had prepared for a job in that news. Yeah. Yeah. And it's good that you also realize that there's like writing has is evolved a lot more from books to, to newspapers to now the digital publications are there's so many and there's so many options of diverse writing can write about specific sciences or you can write about like you were pointing towards like news or comedy. And so that's kind of where you found yourself. And finding a footing is more in like online writing. I would say so. I mean, it's hard. I had so many different writing jobs. Like when I moved to New York, my first job was a Vogue editor's assistant. So it was like Devil Wears Prada and we were writing a script together. I mean, as her writing assistant on a script. And then I gosh, then I was a production assistant, then I worked as a book packager. So coming up with book ideas and then fleshing them out and stuff. So and pitching them to publishers. And then I worked for Sparknotes and ran their blog and just stayed for a really long time. And so I like sort of worked my way up. So I've done kind of everything. And then I worked in TV, a couple different places, now radio. So it everywhere, you know, I think it's all the same. A joke is a, you know, a joke is a joke, whether you read it on paper or hear it on the radio. For those that don't know the nuance differences between what it's like on writing for publication or writing on radio or being on like a television program, tell us a little bit about those differences. Sure. So I mean, writing for television, there's a couple different things. You know, you're either like submitting scripts, like in a script form to try to get jobs on like scripted shows. But here in New York, more of the jobs are like late night. So that's just more like packets where you're writing topical jokes on a really quick turnaround to get considered for those jobs. The radio job that I currently work in is very similar to that because we're writing for, we're writing for things that are happening that week in that month. So they are more like topical jokes. Yeah, I guess obviously we all know what a blog looks like and blog posting looks like in the literary world, putting a book proposal together is a sort of a big deal. You know, there's a lot of research involved. You're really trying to sell both like the writer and the concept to publishers. So that's when I worked in book packaging, that was a whole different type of writing, I guess. And then sometimes ghost writing a book, which is fun and scary and hard and big and yeah. Yeah. And then so now the comedy sort of entering, it likely always has been part of all different aspects of our lives. But now really, we're starting to see it pretty much everywhere we go. There's a version of comedy even in science and science comedy and science communication. It's kind of exciting to see it there because science is also a very funny thing in so many ways. Now tell us a bit about, you know, we see now comedy being something that is like a muscle that you got to train. You got to get really good at being able to be quick on your feet. And when you do that, you can almost like you can liven up crowds. You can liven up your conversation between people. But then there's like people that can sometimes be potentially, you know, they're like, Oh, well, I'm trying to have a serious conversation. So how do you like figure out where to like how do you use humor? Yeah, tell us about that. One thing that I thought that you just said that was so interesting was like the like talking about making that connection. And when you're on stage, so I've been doing stand up for about seven years. And I never thought that I would love it. But I loved it immediately. And when you're on stage and your jokes are working, and everyone is having the same good time, there's like an electricity in the air that is just like it's like, it's so weird, you can feel it. And it's like such a cool feeling. And I just it's like, it's so real, even though it's invisible, and it's amazing. So that is like something that I am always chasing that wonderful feeling. And it's like community, it's something that it's larger than the sum of its parts, you know, it's just beautiful. What are we talking about? Oh, when to be serious? I think it's really actually is a good question. I feel strongly about this. I can't stand I think a lot of people can't stand comedians that are always on, like they're always trying to like be the center of attention. And it's like, dude, you're at a birthday party for your friend, where we're all just like sitting at a dinner, like it's not about you, like stop trying to like win an award for funniest person at the table, you know, so it's just like, I don't know, I think like, you have to turn your joke brain off sometimes to like spare other people and also to spare yourself because it is work, like looking at the world and like taking an object and twisting it in every which way to find every angle on it is like a lot of mental energy. And so I think like we as comedians, you're kind of in a way always trying, you should be, I guess, like looking at the world from different angles, but like you gotta give it a rest and you gotta give everybody else a rest too. You know, it's not nice. I don't know. Those are really good points. First, you mentioned this sort of this this feeling of electricity that comes up in a room that's all laughing. That sort of energy, I think is probably one of the coolest things to feel period is when, you know, you're really connecting with an audience and either their, you know, their jaws are dropped because they're super in awe about what you're saying or they're laughing their asses off and yours having a good time from that, that that feeling of connection with a large group of people, it takes really hard work to learn how to do that really well. And so we'll we'll talk more about that later as well. And then you also mentioned how this is funny because I also think it's really important to look at objects from different angles and the situations and poke fun at them. But I do think it can be crazy sometimes dealing with people that are like, oh my God, give it a rest. Yeah, totally. Coming it to be funny all the time. Just like aren't you you must not be doing well enough in your career if you need like if you need constant attention outside of it. Just like, do you think Seth Meyers goes out to dinner and try and tries to like wow the whole restaurant? No, he does. He leaves his work and his work. I'm sure he's very pleasant to hang out with but just like people at the top of their game don't need to be constantly impressing people with their, you know, by being loud and silly and yeah, just be a person. And this is good. It's like you can be yeah, you can be chill and you can be serious and you can be humorous and you can mix them all in. It's kind of it's funny. There's different strokes for different folks. What's what? Okay, this seems to be something that's now arising more and more in our culture. There's this and it's not just in comedy. It's just political correctness in general. It's people feeling offended, you know, and at times, you know, rightfully so. Also, on the other side of things, it's kind of like a dictating or speech policing a little bit. Like, how do you see that? Yeah, I think it's a little complicated but I tend to air with the people who say be politically correct. Like, if you if what you're saying is offensive, it's offending multiple people. We were talking about this a little before like what, you know, there's always going to be somebody that's offended by everything. There's there are people that are offended by a woman literally being on stage. Like they do not so like you can't not offend somebody. But I think like, as far as political correctness, like try like why we should all be punching up, I think. And I think a lot of the people that are fighting for their right to make fun of minorities. Why? What is the purpose of that? Like, why do you have to put down a group that's already fighting so hard to for equality? You know, so that's that's my big question. What's why is that so important? And if you are doing something offensive and you do feel like you have a good point, maybe you just haven't found the right way to say it yet. Yeah, I mean, I've killed jokes that I thought at the time were totally fine. And now I don't say them anymore, because I just don't feel like it's my place. I, you know, I think we all have a we all have our perspective. And there are certain things that I'm just like, you know what, it's not my place to decide whether or not I get to talk about a certain group or whatever, because it's not my group. I'm just, if they don't, if that makes them uncomfortable, I respect that. You bring up a good point on iterating jokes until they in some sense are that you're just refining your own jokes until, you know, you can get a whole audience laughing at something. There's there's so much material that needs to be joked about. There's like, there's there's real life issues that we face all we're talking about this this complicated mess that is the current state of humanity with exponential technology and what we're doing with the internet and social media. There's so many jokes and wealth and equality. There's so many jokes available in those domains. And yet we use for some reason are targeting other groups or individuals. So there's I would totally sway in the favor of like enriching people's awareness by talking about complex subjects that that are going to again just open people up to a new perspective on on on the world that really needs to happen. It's it can be a little bit weird though, because there's like you know, you were saying also that that someone will always be offended by something and and there's there's there seems to be a little too much like coddling going on like that people can't necessarily like take a joke. Do you see that as an issue as well? That's interesting. I feel like my whole life people have been like, can you take a joke? Can't take a joke when they are just like making fun of women or like throwing stereotypes at me. And I'm like, no, that's a bad joke. It's an old joke. It's a stupid joke. I'm done taking this joke. And so I don't really feel that way. I sure there's always going to be I don't think it's necessarily generational or anything. There's always going to be people who are offended and are crabby. But I know I'm so sick of like the same old thing. And like, I don't want to have to take a joke like I've taken jokes my whole life. I'm sick of it. You know, I don't want people to and also I mean, as a white woman, white women are such a punchline right now in comedy. They are a punchline of every every single group that is not a white woman. So like minorities as well as white straight men are all using white women. Not to say that we have it the hardest. We absolutely do not. But yeah, I don't want to have to laugh at that. I'm sick of it. Everybody's doing the same joke. I'm not going to laugh if it's not funny. If you hit me and you like you get me in an unexpected place, I will laugh and I will laugh at myself. But I'm you know, I just feel like you in comedy here the same thing over and over and over it. I'm not going to laugh if it's not funny. Yeah, ethics are evolving in many ways. And I think one of comedies, if comedy has a goal towards some sort of a truth, I would say that it's comedy has a goal of trying to help people evolve their ethics more towards like an equality of opportunity for all people. And to really see that like we are all one in that we are all need to figure out how to work together on this planet. And so that's like a good goal of comedy. And there's in my opinion, there's so many ways to to help identify the evolution of ethics. This is so big because let's move to kids because kids and children, I don't think necessarily even know that comedy is an option for them. A lot of the time we talk to comedians when they say no, there's like really no real mentorship or indication that you can make a career out of comedy, even writing writing, there is at least a little bit of an indication that you can like make a career out of writing. But so yeah, how can you maybe pass along some advice to young people that might want to get involved in comedy? I think that it's actually really smart to go in if you're like performing comedy to go in with the idea that there is no way to make a living like honestly, because like it will take so long that like you should have a day job like throw some energy into getting a day job that is related or getting a skill that like you enjoy something to enrich your life and also pay your rent while you do this because performing is so crazy and unpredictable. And I'm so lucky that I have writing and I was a writer first. But yeah, I think a lot of people just say oh, I'm going to do comedy and like think that they're going to be rich and famous. But so many of my friends have had half hours on Comedy Central and they're like, hey, can I walk your dog? I can't quite make rent this month. So it's not easy. And it's not glamorous. But I think that if you get another skill, it can only help your comedy. You'll have stuff to talk about like, you know, you can do jokes about your day job and going into an office and it's hard and it's really, really tiring to basically have a double life. But you kind of gotta, you have to do it. Yeah, that's also another part of this like entrepreneurial hustle too is that the self sustaining grind is so crucial. It teaches you a lot. And then to, yeah, I like that piece of advice. There's there's also something about comedy that's like you got to watch a lot of the best and then kind of learn from how they set up jokes and and and you can practice that you're going to fall on your face, you know, you talk about this as well. So you're going to like land you're going to try and land jokes and you're going to you're going to not succeed a bunch. And so you got to be resilient in that sense. Absolutely. Yeah. Let's let's talk a bit about that resilience. You know, you had a you had in 2018 you had a 100 rejections was your goal. And you actually got like 43 acceptances. And so you got and you actually you got you went up a like a level or two and some in some opportunities and you strive for them and you actually got got them, which is also really interesting. And then you got some really hard like rejections, which all like kind of builds you up to, you know, to the story. Tell us about it. Yeah. So my New Year's resolution was 100 rejections for 2018 and I ended up getting 104 and 104 rejections, 43 acceptances. I have a couple still in my pending. I'm not really sure what's happening with this pile. A lot of my rejections were just no response, which I think I wrote about this for the New York Times and a lot of the comments were like, well, are these no response? What are these? People don't even tell me no, like how are you getting all these noses? And like, no, ghosting is a no. Like, if it was dating, you wouldn't be like dating someone and be like, Oh, well, he hasn't responded to my texts for a year, but we're still he's still my boyfriend. You know what I mean? If somebody's ghosting you in a professional setting, it's the same. They don't want you they're not interested. They don't want to buy what you're selling. So it was a lot of that. And it was a it was just an experiment that I did to try to reframe the way I look at rejection and to push myself a little bit farther and see what I could get if I was just being a little bit more of a go-getter. And I considered myself to be an extremely hard worker in a go-getter before that. But what would an extra push do for me? And it did it was it was wonderful. I mean, I got to do things that I never thought I would have been able to do. Yeah. And there's there's also like you were you were you're indicating like 100. This is a great goal. It's a great goal to reach out to over 100, make 100 plus requests to get work and see how your your background sort of tests against what they're looking for in a candidate and get feedback on that. Get these gigs and go through them. And I think there might even be there's like a really deep lesson in this of like perseverance and resilience. What do you think you gained from that side of things? I think that I sort of learned that like it's not bad to ask for things and nobody's really not everyone's thinking about you. So if you want something you have to ask for it and it's just so important. And I had these limitations on myself. Like I always thought that I was like not smart enough to write for the New Yorker. And I always wanted to write chouts and merbers for the New Yorker. I read them all the time. They're so funny. And I submitted two pieces and they got in and I'm like, I put these limitations on myself. No one told me that I was not fit for it. I told myself that. So I mean, I just learned like I need to erase all these things that I had previously thought about myself. Yeah, I think that that's kind of that's kind to just push a little harder. But the other thing is that what I've learned from bouncing the idea off people and telling them what I did, like I reached for things that I was afraid to reach for, but also it's not out of the realm of possibility. I wasn't like, I'm going to try out for the WNBA today and then put that on my rejection list. So I think like if you're like 22 and you've never done comedy, don't be like, hey, can I headline Carolines? Like, you know what I mean? Like you need to like, put in the work of going to those open mics for a couple of years, then start your own bar show, ask for other similar shows, like ask for things that are a step or two above you, but not 20 steps above you. So that's another piece of it. Yeah, those are really good pieces of feedback. So wherever we're at with what we're doing, what we're passionate about, what we mean, what we find most meaningful in life, it's that we really got to stretch ourselves to take more opportunities and seize those doors that are kind of available to us by making a cool resolution. Like I'm going to go and ask these hundred doors. I'm going to go and knock at these doors and the ones that are a level or two above you is also really good to go and try and dig and find these connections and build these networks. And I like your example of like I didn't just go trial for the WNBA and add that to my rejection list. Yep, yep. Okay. Other things that you think are important to address before we get to these last couple of questions? In regards to the rejection project or just any... In general, yeah, comedy, writing. Gosh, I just, I didn't, everyone says like, oh, when you get into this, it's going to be so hard and there's going to be so much rejection. And I was like, yeah, I know. And then when you do an experiment like this or make a resolution where you're actually listing your rejections, it made me really see it differently, see it for the first time in that way, where you're like, wow. And you know, one of my New Year's resolutions this year is to do one item of self-care a week because I realized after looking at all this rejection that I was really putting myself through a lot. And I have to, I don't know, we should just be nice to ourselves. It's so hard to do this. And if you're in a field where you're getting rejected all the time, go and get a massage. Go get your nails done. Do something for yourself. Take yourself out to eat because it's actually really affecting you. And I just didn't realize how much all of this negativity in my life that it was also present. And so now I'm trying to be more mindful of the negativity that I'm bringing into my life as I'm trying to ascend in my career. Yeah. The two points there. First is listing the reason why you get what your rejections are. I've saved a bunch of my rejections and I go and look at them because it's really important for me to motivate myself to want to achieve more. And I motivate myself by doing that. And also like another thing is, you know, you talk about self-care. Self-care is really important. And knowing what brings us to a state of calm and a state of whatever we want to do in the flow and like how do we get there most effectively and like triggering that within ourselves. Okay. We started the conversation talking about how complex and messy civilization has become. What are some of your solutions to the mess? Oh, I don't know. I just hope that somebody else figures it out. I don't know. This is the thing. Like, I don't know how to save the world. Like, I just, I try to vote right and donate money to organizations I believe in and I try not to eat meat. And that's like, I don't know. I'm trying to not buy fast fashion. But I just, all I know are like things that I can do on in my life on my level to try to be responsible. But I don't have like big scale answers. I think we need a different president for sure. Yeah. I think we need more, you know what? We need women. We need more women. There's a lot more now in this freshman class of, but I think more women in politics in general would be really helpful. I think we have all the answers and we can save the world. We're just, we're not, we're, I'm sorry, but men are just inherently slightly more evil, I think. We have to have control. I think there's quite a bit of, of neurodiversity of diversity and thinking that needs to enter the political sphere and into just stewardship sphere in general. Yeah, a lot of the people that are of great like corruption and greed and evil malevolence, et cetera, are in many ways, are men. And that, I always like to run this simulation of what it would have evolved like if it was a matriarchy. Yeah, like how would things have evolved? And then what I do after that is then I take the best of what could have evolved as a matriarchy and the best of what evolves as a patriarchy and I try and smash those things together into like an equality. And I hope that's where, that's where we get. What do you think about, what do you think about? I think the world's gonna blow up before that happens. I'm not very optimistic. I don't know. We're all gonna be living on a moon, on the moon. Yeah, I don't know. I think that's, what is the best case scenario for a matriarchy? Yeah, that's a great question. I'm glad you asked that. I think the amount of nurture that occurs that especially that both in like social relationships and also between children and mothers and parents. But I think that's a really good one is the level of nurture. I do think that women have, we're, I mean I see this, this thing where women are very hard workers because we're told like since we're children that you have to work super hard to get what you want and you have to, you know, you gotta be, get great grades and you have to be pretty and you gotta play sports and you gotta do all these things and I feel like for some reason in my generation, in this like millennial, I'm like on the older side of millennials, but the guys are really not matching. I mean, I'm not saying anything new, the idea of a man-child, but it's really a wild and interesting phenomenon and I just see it across my generation. That's not to say that there aren't millennial men who have worked really hard and are super talented, but like overall, like the women are just like dedicated hard workers and I feel like guys were like, I'm okay with the sea and I just like want to play my video games, you know? Like they're like, I don't really need to be on honor roll, I just need to be happy and like it's just, it's so different how we were raised. Man, I wonder, like we were talking earlier about how like people can't really get offended by facts, like people shouldn't be offended by facts. And you know, it'd be interesting to see what some of the like factual data is here. Men have a voice, have a proclivity to play video games. Girls have a proclivity to talk to each other on social media and stuff like that. And so it's just like trying to figure out where this all comes from. Yeah, part of it. And then also like, yeah, also just again running the actual simulation of what it would be like to have a full fledged matriarchy and take the best from that a full fledged patriarchy have the best from that, or, you know, run a full fledged equal equality of opportunity experiment and then see what that would actually look like. Yeah. Okay, what is a core driving principle of yours? That's so interesting. I used to have my, I would always joke with my sister, my old motto is most people are stupid and suck. It just helps me get through the world. But it's pretty negative, isn't it? I do sort of believe that and I find it very helpful, because I tend, I think also as a woman, to really worry about what people think about me and really get in my head and tell myself that I'm not worthy enough. So when I remind myself that most people are stupid and suck, it helps me be confident, actually. So in a way, it is sort of a positive spin. I think I will hold on to that mantra for a little while longer. In fact, my fiance is like the most positive man in the world and like he would be so horrified to hear this right now. Yeah, and I was thinking as you were saying that, like, I can see how it could potentially, you know, benefit someone, but all this, like, like maybe for you to say, but at the same time, it's like, we like to try and humanize, right? We like to try and find the real good in each other. Right. But I think if you approach it, like if you approach other people with like, I'm not afraid of you, I'm not afraid to be me in front of you. And that's kind of like where most people are stupid and suck really helps me out, you know, and then you're pleasantly surprised by people. Yeah, I don't like the idea that everyone is inherently good is a little condescending to me. I don't know. I think I think it helps me. My brain is broken too. I'm like, yeah, I have comedy brain, I have depression and anxiety and all of that. So for me to, I think I just need more of a negative place to start. It just helps me function. I mean, because you're talking to a girl who, my goal was 100 rejections last year. So I really come from a sad place. A big learning lesson. Yeah, and then I like work from there. But I guess maybe that's part of just what helps me, what helps me move through the world. Now, if you could rebuild civilization from scratch, how would you design it? Pink. I don't know. Oh, God, I would put New York City and Hollywood in the same place. That is one thing that's very annoying. What else? What else? What else? I've never thought about that. That's so interesting. Gosh, if you would have asked me like 10 years ago, I would have been like, dude, I think we should all live with our friends in communal settings and then always each other's babies. And I'm like, I think what I'm describing as a cult. But I always thought that would be really fun. I don't know. I think more sports bras has less high heels. Can we go with that? I'm down. I'm down. Yeah. Yeah. That's comfortability. Yeah. Huge comfortability. How about, do you think this is a simulation? Everything's a simulation. No, I don't understand. Simulation is like a, like a, you know what? It would be kind of nice. Wouldn't it just like take some of the stress off if this was a simulation? Why am I so stressed out? I shouldn't be. I don't have any free will at the end of the day. I kind of hope it's a simulation. It actually makes me feel really happy to think about that. Do you think it's a simulation? There's some good arguments for it. Yeah. Does it make you feel happy when you think about it? I just got so happy. Yeah. Well, I think that we will soon be potentially writing our and computing our own simulation of the evolution of a planet orbiting a star and then we'll see ourselves evolving in that simulation and we'll be like, Oh, so this is just another level. Oh my God. I'm going to have such trouble writing jokes about this. It's too cerebral. It's very exciting though. I think it's a really good thought experiment. And I'm just ready for like the end, the end screen. Like you leveled up 17 times, gained 3400 experience points. Here's all the trash that you use then it just like trucked like dumps trash. Oh my God. So you should have used less trash in your life. Yeah, just funny. Yeah, stuff like that could be funny. Okay. Last question is what do you think is the most beautiful thing in the world? Oh, that's such a sweet question. I mean, this is so hokey, but love. I mean, when I am laying in bed with my fiance and our pit bull, and we are all just snuggled up together. I think it is the most beautiful thing and the best feeling in the world. And it makes me feel like I have a reason to do all the bullshit of living, you know, just get up, do my work, try really hard. It that moment is the perfect moment. Yeah. What about you? Yeah. I like yours a lot. We hear love a lot. Love is a really important one. You make it clear that it's so profound for you that it makes everything else worth living. That's really beautiful. Yeah, probably the fact that we somehow managed to evolve here on earth and you know, we find ourselves here as stewards of the planet and we have to figure out how to work together because, yeah, if we don't be a sad thing, if we don't. So I want to figure out how to do that. And so I think that's the most beautiful thing of the earth and all of its inhabitants, including animals, plants, et cetera. Thanks for asking. Yeah. And thanks for joining us on the show. Thank you for having me on. I really appreciate it. Thanks for coming on. And everyone, check out Emily's work and the links in the bio. Go and check it out. Let us know your thoughts on the episodes we'd love to hear from you in the comments below. Let's get the conversations rolling about how to more easily succeed with our goals and go and launch ourselves out to more opportunities and not be fearful of rejections. Pick up some comedy, pick up some writing, go do your thing. Also, go and build the future, everyone, manifest your destiny into the world. We love you very much and we will see you soon. Peace.