 Good afternoon everybody Welcome to US Institute of Peace. My name is Nancy Lindborg I'm the president here, and I'm delighted to welcome you this afternoon. We have a truly overflow crowd We're not only jammed in this room, but there's a whole nother room that is filled Which I think is a testimony to the importance of this topic I heard several people say great to see you here in the States, so I'm also glad to be able to bring all these Mali Fans together USIP for those who haven't been here before it was tasked by Congress 30 years ago to develop practical approaches to resolving preventing and managing conflict and we do that by bringing together practical tools field work research training and policy recommendations And I think the reason that there's so many people here in this room Is the eager and enthusiastic hope that we can bring to bear practical peace-building tools in a place like Mali And the fact that Mali is in this very specific transition period Which is when we really want to pay very close attention. I was just Talking with Ambassador Leonard who I last saw in Mali in 2012, which she tells me is the longest year Mali's ever had And I was there at a time when there was still a lot of head scratching going on as to how did this Model democracy of West Africa suddenly just implode with the coup and then everything that happened in the north and We also have going on today day three of the World Bank Fragility Forum And I see some of you here who we were wandering around there earlier this week You know and I think Mali really represents the classic challenge of understanding how fragility is Both a national security threat for a country and it's a global security threat And we need to understand how these forces of democracy development and security really work together And take deep and clear-eyed Looks at how to support countries and Regions as they seek to move out of fragility and some miscalculations that were done in Mali that are still being thought about and People are seeking to understand So we're here today in part because we have the transition of the OTI program And I'm pleased to see some of my former OTI colleagues here And AID colleagues It's and and it's an interesting time because we do have the peace deal We had elections the OTI program was very much focused on Trying to create positive conditions for both of those to happen. So congratulations on the contribution to that We also know that peace deals often fail in the first five years And we're just coming up on the first year So now is really the time that we need to be fully focused on What's next for Mali? How can Mali continue to steer itself forward at a time where there is still conflict? It's in a really tough neighborhood And there's a lot of of hope and a lot of need to help Mali succeed in a positive transition so I'm delighted that we're able to be here today for this conversation and I'm also very delighted to now introduce the moderator for today's panel who is a Good friend and close colleague both from USIP and AID and USIP before that Beth Cole who is our special advisor on countering violent extremism and conflict Here at USIP previously ran the USAID office on civil military cooperation and has a very long career in thinking and Writing and working on these issues. So please join me in welcoming Beth Cole Well, thank you Nancy and who said we couldn't fill this room on Mali. I don't know we're gonna have to talk to them So I just want you to know that we're not the only people that are watching this event We have many people in an overall flow room and many people that are streaming this as well And for those of you in the Twitter universe, please join us at hashtag USIP Mali You know, we don't often stop and pause to think about Places like Mali that are going through some very difficult transitions and to really Try to bring on board some of the lessons and some of the things that we might have done Well to build peace but also to examine some of the challenges and opportunities That lie ahead and so today we're very fortunate to have really an all-star cast up here To help us both look at the lessons, but also to look ahead to challenges and opportunities I want to just start with Camisa Kamara I've practiced Camisa is the senior program officer for West and Central Africa at the Ned She also started the program for Mali at the Ned And what something that I just learned is that she's the founder and co-chair of this health strategy forum Which brings together a wide array of stakeholders to look at Look at issues in the Sahel Ambassador Mary Beth Leonard who Nancy kind of just also introduced Was the ambassador in Mali during these very difficult years of transition from November? 2011 to September 2014 and Because of that work she received the State Department's Diplomacy for Human Rights Award in 2013 And when I asked her yesterday if that goes to a bunch of ambassadors. She said no actually just one one per year So that really says something about her service Joel Hurst Joel Hurst was the USCID OTI country representative in Mali He just left in December and he was there from 2013 to 2016 previous he was the country representative for OTI in Uganda And acting in Venezuela, and if you think you don't get rewarded for these assignments Just take a look because Joel's headed to northern Nigeria To be that acting representative or the representative for OTI So we we're gonna start with a Camisa and we're gonna roll through and then we're gonna open it up To invite all of you to join our conversation Camisa. All right. Well, good afternoon everyone and thank you to USIP for having me here I was asked to summarize what has happened in Mali since 2012 and it is quite a difficult task to do that Because every single step that has been taken in Mali since 2012 Every single event that has occurred in the country has had huge impacts in Mali, but also in the entire Sahel region Back in 2012 the National Endowment for Democracy realized that it had not had a program in Mali for a very long time And that may be because the military coup which took place that same year was a surprise A funding program to civil society organizations could be helpful in addressing some of the underlying governance issues That not many outside of Mali were aware of So Ned along with some other international organizations and the international community Were shocked that a beacon of democracy such as Mali could have problems Well, it did and Mali remains a democracy nonetheless What is important to recognize here is that Mali has come a very long way since 2012 well 2012 was an eventful year There was a military coup at the same time. There was a rebellion raging in the northern part of the country In early 2013 the French slash a coas military intervention Was able to liberate northern Mali from the jihadists who had temporarily sidelined the separatist rebels and the same year Mali held successful legislative elections and elected Ibrahim Buba Karkita as president of the country in 2015 I think that the most important event that occurred at least from an international perspective is The signature of the alger's accord the alger's peace agreement That officially put an end to the fourth twilight rebellion that Mali has known Since it gained independence from the French in 1960 the alger's peace agreement came after very long month of tense negotiations between the Malian government and Some Arab and Toric factions who were having some I would say difficulties in in Agreeing on a negotiation strategy Some were adamant that they wanted an independent state in northern Mali Some were not at the end of the day It didn't really matter because the malin government wasn't even willing to entertain the idea of an independent state in the north so about the peace agreement I think that Looking at Mali's issues in 2012 it is important to remember that Mali's security and political Crisis are multi-dimensional which makes the implementation of the alger's accord extremely difficult not impossible, but extremely difficult So I would like to maybe highlight a few points here that could help us really get the whole picture of what has been happening in the country Since 2012 so the 2012 target rebellion took place in a context of constantly evolving power struggles between more and more powerful non-state actors in northern Mali and One of the reasons why the rebels were able to take over two-thirds of Northern Mali was because they had received top-notch military training in Gaddafi's Libya and they had come back to Mali with sophisticated weapons which they owned and Which they could use One other thing that I would like to highlight and sometimes This is totally overlooked some of the toareg fighters who came back from Libya were joined by other Rebels that were not necessarily toaregs who had deserted the malian army several times So they were basically fighting a military or an army Of which they were a part of a few months earlier And this is very important to to remember What is worrying after all of this money that has been poured into Mali since 2012 is the The fact that there was this small armed survey that came out Last year that came up with the conclusion that the jihadists and some of the rebel factions in northern Mali Were more armed than the malian military still today, which is very worrying I want to believe that this is not true But if it is then we have a serious problem that we have to deal with So this brings me to my main point I think it is important to know how much President Ibeqa spent when he bought that plane But what is more important? I think is to figure out how Mali as a country will implement that huge clause, which is I think key central to Mali stability within the next 20 years and that is the demobilization demilitarization and reintegration process when we're talking about combatants or Former rebels, how do you reintegrate them into? Malian society do you reintegrate them in the malian civil service? Do you reintegrate them into the army? Mali has had a series of failed attempts since the 1990s and I've met a few malian officials over the past three years who've told me that well if Without the DDR process or without reintegration. There is no peace possible well Okay, but how do you deal with these rebels who have deserted the malian army multiple times who are not? necessarily loyal to the malian government and who? Have an allegiance to this virtual state called Azawad. I think that's a big question. I'm asking everybody here so while a successful DDR process will Ensure the long-term stability of Mali will ensure the state's Monopoly of force it is also important to recognize that illicit trafficking and organized crime in northern Mali and in the Sahel have provided a stable income to some Rebel factions or jihadists in northern Mali. So what does that provide them? It gives them prestige. It gives them power It gives them money which are perks that I don't believe that the malian government could Rival and this is this is a problem For this reason Mali's challenges to integrate Former rebels into the civil service and into the military has never been as complex as it is as it is today It was complex in the 1990s, but it is extremely complex today because of the reasons I just mentioned as a Consequence the signing of the peace agreement last year is one very small step toward National reconciliation and long-term peace in Mali who's which is a country I think whose stability will really determine the stability of the entire Sahel region In my opinion peace prospects in Mali offer a very limited number of possibilities and that is because of the radically opposed expectations of the northern rebels From those of the malian government when it comes to the issue of autonomy or an independent state In northern Mali, and I'm using this platform to this platform to remind Everybody that this issue of an independent state or this issue of as I was did not start in 2012 even before Mali gained independence from France the Idea of an independent state in northern Mali this idea of an as I was state was mentioned In the 1950s, I can't remember the year by a historian called Mohammed el-Midi ag-Atahir So even before Mali gained independence from the French this idea of an independent state was already there So again this it wasn't the first time that we've heard of it in 2012 And it is important to look back at Mali's history to really understand where we've come also one other complication around this issue of autonomy and In dealing with with rebels in northern Mali is that the rebels who took up arms against the malian government are a Minority within a minority. They do not represent the entire Trier community They do not represent the entire Arab community. They do not certainly represent the malian community They only represent themselves and this is very important to keep in mind To conclude on a positive note most Civil society organizations that we the net have been supporting over the the the past three years Have had very innovative approaches in in dealing with some of the governance issues that I've just Mentioned some are engaging the military by building Civil military platforms some are engaging the media in training them in ICTs to monitor public policies and parliament sessions Some women's groups are training other women in northern Mali in public speaking In how to run political campaigns Some dynamic very active youth groups are Engaging the elders on accountability issues and on how to manage public accounts or our budgets So as a conclusion I would say that if the the 2012 military coup did anything in Mali and also In in terms of the diaspora the malian diaspora that are here in the us or in france Is that it really managed for for for mali to Make malians again both in mali and in the diaspora Play closer attention to what is happening at the highest levels Of the state and I think that this provides hope for for the future Thank you very much ambassador Thank you And thank you camisa for a great overview as a backdrop to our discussion I would before going into my presentation Which is going to try to talk about what the united states had been doing in mali and then how that changed because of events and Some of the tools that we used through 2013 2014 and in particular the oti program as one member of a very engaged international community To help mali come back from crisis and the abyss And to re-establish itself as a partner not only for us, but for its partners in the region The one thing I think I would add to camisa's remarks is that when we talk about discussions of Tuareg independence It is not merely the government of mali who refused that as a condition that is actually Was wholly embraced by the international community and obviously as a founding principle of the organization of african unity and a very fondly held african principle But that was never particularly on the table and I think that If you look at the substance of tuareg grievances over time many of them Mount to a governance issue of service delivery as opposed to necessarily an attachment to an independent state That's a long and contentious and complicated conversation You know, it is True to say that Governance also fails in northern mali which in southern mali which has a great deal of needs It is also true that segu and sikaso look very different from qidal and and gao And there is a difference to what has been accomplished in the north as opposed to the south but at any rate So pre the coup in mali, uh, what was the united states doing there? What was going on there? I'm going to need those glasses. I'm going to take them So we had this very agreeable place, uh, you know mali was the uh, had the freest press in africa according to freedom house It was the only organization of the islamic conference country certified as politically free It was on the verge of having elections to have a second president in a row depart nicely after his constitutional two terms Very rigid the religiously tolerant with really rich social mechanisms for conflict resolution Um, and so it was this very agreeable place. It also had a very significant number of challenges Along with its sahelian neighbors was has traditionally been in the bottom slots of the human development index So very very poor A period of drought As serial toireg rebellion over the course of its independent history and encroaching extremism Um into the north of mali So a very agreeable place with some very significant challenges Attracted a lot of interest and attention not only from the united states but from the entire donor community And what we were doing there were things in health and education not only to bring services to the people of mali But also with an emphasis on decentralization to sort of help reinforce the contract between a democratically elected government It's people military capacity building, you know generally the things that go along with the u.s Goals in africa as expressed generally in terms of reinforcing democratic institutions peace and security economic growth opportunity for people You come to 2012 and you have three unbelievably interwoven crises happening at the same time And it's it's governance And rebellion and extremism A nice little mantra Covenants and rebellion extremism. Oh my and they were all very linked to each other in mali's downward spiral If you look at that series of events you have resurgence of rebellion in the north Which mali's military was unable to counter which led to incredible frustration on By people by family members first of the military Who who objected To the difficult conditions that their loved ones were enduring that led to a mutiny in bombaco Now we have the crisis of governance where political forces glommed on to that and it became a coup And then you had with the disarray in bombaco people in the north taking advantage and moving into more cities And a faction of toareg rebellion that allied itself with extremism To take over the north as a malian military that was not supported when there was a government Slipped away In the face of no one able to support them in the midst of the the political uncertainty that was there The as the extremists took over to the north. I think that 2012 the longest year of my life. I think Was it was also characterized by extraordinary fluidity quick silver shifting of alliances It was a very very confused time in the north And then at one point and one can argue about what the intentions were or what drove them to that There was the intolerable southward push by the extremists Towards the south towards bombaco or towards the airport in moctey. Well, whatever But that was what triggered the french intervention It was what triggered the eventual entry of a fisma that became a new sma an international intervention to restore The territorial integrity of molly so if Molly if the if if governance and rebellion and extremism were very interwoven in the downward spiral It was equally true and it was a very firmly held consensus within the international community That unraveling that spiral would need to do fix those three things as well. So the very first Emphasis was on getting through a transition, which was devised by ecowas To get back to an elected government. You've got to solve the rebellion, but you can't Why would rebels negotiate with a government that would not be the entity to implement what it was that they Would agree to So that was the the first cornerstone in that and you'll hear a bit later about how the US interagency and through some oti programs that in lockstep with the international community Helped to get back to that point I think one of the points that reminds you how interlinked these crises were Was the fact that the french intervention as that began to regain territory in molly's north Really set the the the preparations for elections on fire People were just so ready to be through this transition and to do that. Let's get to elections So the international community sat there and under the leadership of minouzma said, okay You know if these people are really going to have elections on july 28th The following 28 things had better happened which of you can sign up for which parts And there was a very close coordination to make that happen And then you have an elected government And that can have a negotiation with its discontinental members and that was a Although 2013 was a very fast year in my life It was also a year and through 2014 in which the international community was very closely supporting not only the individual pre discussions and the pre pre discussions and the sort of almost pre discussions and then And and multiple parts of the of the embassy and including some programs From oti worked on a variety of supports to that process Which brings you to the third part of the spiral which is that essential questions like counterterrorism and and And counter rebellion or counter narcotics are not things that any one country does in isolation so that you know with uh A molly that has sorted itself out and can be a partner to its neighbors a partner to the international community to the longer term Inherently regional work of those issues. That is the general Framework if you will um on which we approached This construct to you know, you talk about the unhelpful actors in the north and and pernicious liaisons I think a big part of the peace process in particular its implementation goes very much to the essential question of Not only reuniting molly as a whole But also delineating between the people who support the state from people who spurn it Which is basically the difference between someone who chooses to participate in a construct of a molly in state and those who You know are are doing Pernicious activities that in fact would prefer for there not to be a greater control of a space So that's that's a very that's a very important winnowing out As you go forward into the implementation And now Joel you'll be talking a lot about some of our oti programs And I would caution you all that although we are very proud of some of the of the contributions that we made Towards helping molly get back towards elections toward doing some very grassroots kinds of efforts as well as some Larger overarching efforts to provide fodder to support this process We are not here to say, you know, um, there's no banner behind us that says victory or you know game game over Once you have a peace process indeed you still have to implement it So molly still has an awful lot of work to do and it is not a time for complacency Because the the great gains Uh and governance the great gains and return of stability are not There forever They are they are it is possible to threaten them and it is only in continuing on that road That that that you you can have a prayer of of of counteracting that and it's something although the Implementation of the peace process is very certainly a matter between mollions The experience of these last three years reminds us that the security of molly has more to do With just molly and their relationships with each other It was something that threatened the largest stability of the sahel and by implication international security So that is the basis on which we all besides the fact that You know, there are many faces in here that i've also seen in molly Anyone who has been there immediately falls in love with the place and so wants it to succeed But this is not only about a story of mollions. This is a story about larger regional security Thank you so much So we're very pleased to be here, uh to talk about the molly program And we're very grateful to usip for hosting this event. I think it's a fantastic good one Uh, I used to be a fellow. I myself used to be a fellow at the council of correlations in the bush institute I used to you know, I attended a lot of these events and I I think they're very important I think they they help improve the transparency of our policymaking and they deepen our democracy These are the things that we have that are great to have um As far as for for me here, I'm here to talk about our program And what we did in molly from the period of 2013 until uh ending right now in 2016 OTI's uh vision statement says we We strive to be the preeminent u.s. Government response to you to complex political crises We want to be called upon in the hard places where difficult things are happening Where we can bring our unique set of skills as a small but important part of the whole of government response to tackle these challenges um And I don't think political crisis often get as complex as the crisis that happened in molly That both the ambassador and commissive summed up so well coup counter coup rebellion civil war al-qaeda Things went back quick To help put the pieces back together. OTI was called and we responded um ambassador Leonard laid out excellently our policy responses Of what we were trying to achieve What we in the international community felt needed to happen? to Help her resume her place among the community democracies So as we said we first set our own elections So helping the mollion people get elected government back in place that we could interact with and that we could work with Just all the issues of security as well as the issues of the civil war So through 19 activities, we did things like sending 16 million text messages to every mollion self on multiple times Informing people how to find their voting booth Deployed technicians to the bigger voting centers helping people Guide guide the voters to their to where they were going to vote we organized We work with youth organizations and huge get out the vote efforts to add energy and momentum to the election process Meetings and villages civil society networks defending their votes And there were good elections for national level elections Two rounds of both in the period of few months And then we put that To bed and we focused on local and national reconciliation Working to help communities in the north to overcome conflicts in areas that have been controlled by al-qaeda Showing momentum to recovery and peace through activities like community meetings Cash work programs small infrastructure activities Working extensively with culture Groups from from groups such as the the timbuktu renaissance Organization to local groups like theater organizations musicians griots At the national level a sophisticated youth network began to find their voice And we formed a great partnership with the ministry of national reconciliation We worked with hundreds of remarkable partners to help make the case for peace and reconciliation heard nationwide Um, and we worked to support the al-juice police process Translating and printing all of the documents from the wagadugu initial ones all the way through the ceasefire all the way through The roadmap and to the final al-juice Final signed agreement forums and communities discussing the contents of the accord and how they impacted the lives of private citizens in villages From gao timbuktu all the way through sikasa all the way down multi um Raider debates television programs sms blasts Working with radio partners to send journalists to al-jiirs To cover the peace process in local languages and inform the communities and the populations of what was being discussed on their behalf And finally we worked to challenge the toxic ideas presented by al-qaeda during the time that they controlled the north Specifically we did a pilot program in gao where certain communities have been enthusiastic about the arrival of al-qaeda We worked to help them reconcile to come to terms with what had happened Think about why it was wrong and help reinsert them into the fabric of maliant society that makes that country naturally resistant to violent extremism Over the three-year period We did 238 activities or grants for more than 10 million dollars and the average grant size is about 45 thousand dollars Um our partner our remarkable partner in this endeavor Was the the contractor who managed the task board was acorn international development and they're here to see it today That had three offices. We had an office in timbuktu and gao and in bama co And 60 more than 60 staff working closely in the villages in areas where it was hard for us to get to areas of timbuktu Of gao working in the villages with the communities as we tried to deliver peace Uh, it was a remarkable three years And we were so very privileged to also have hundreds of incredible maliant counterparts from the very grassroots levels councils and youth organizations all the way through ministries, um, and it was uh And and to work alongside them and help them defend their freedoms They brought up a little bit also To address some of the lessons that we learned because we always try to learn we're actually here on an after action review Internalizing some of the lessons we learned there for the last three years So I think that there's uh, i'm gonna say i'm gonna talk about three um, first of all We were policy guidance from the state department and the inter aid and the inter agency coming from the embassy From ambassador lennard as well as ambassador foamesman. Um, and we figured out together what needs to be done And then go and then figuring out how to go about and advance those policy imperatives in the villages and in the communities The lesson there is in policy vacuums or where things are unclear otf programs struggle The second And we talk about this all the time at otf you have to have Programs that are quick enough to seize windows of opportunity as they emerge something is happening. You must respond In molly the quickest grant that we did was I think it was about three hours The quickest cluster of activities that you'll see here Responding to a return of conflict when the prime minister visited p dot was in about a week and a half And and you have to be quick And flexible to pivot the program when political imperatives change And third when I can't stress this enough because this is hard you have to be willing to take risks Political transition programs are complex. They're tricky And being successful requires you to take hard issues Sometimes with imperfect information Then you have to be willing to fail if you're going to be able to succeed And that's not easy Um, this is one of the reasons we do small grants if something doesn't work The risks are reduced because individual projects they can be changed They can be terminated and we can find out what does work and power forward without affecting the initiative as a whole Um, so those are the few things that I that I think that we've learned from the molly program Thank you all for coming. This is great turnout as we have a discussion about our policy in a in a far away We all love All right. Well Jeez There's so many questions and so much to work with here. So I wanted us to open it up We have some folks that have mics That can Thank you Could you could you wait for the mic for one second? Thank you Yeah Thank you. Yeah. Um, good afternoon everyone I'm current that guy head out human art touches work in west africa and it's been to molly many times most recently in december So my question is when looking at the issues that gave rise to I guess what we could refer to as molly spectacular and very painful collapse in 2013 We and I'm sure many of you recognize a few of them Key issues corruption and bad economic governance being one the other one impunity and the other one The criminalization of the state notably in drug trafficking. My question is really If you think that a molly has recognized those issues enough and whether the international community including the u.s. Government is Addressing those issues both programmatically rhetorically and otherwise I mentioned this because I was just in molly in december doing research on the spread of war the very unfortunate spread of violence at least and the growth of Of extremist groups into central and southern molly and I spoke with a lot of leaders from the poll community Particularly and they mentioned again and again and again that their boys were joining these groups Particularly because of the lack of justice the security vacuum And ongoing abuses that that that these extremist groups were were exploiting in order to recruit. So Thank you very much. Let's hear from the panel I can quickly begin. I just maybe one one quick answer is that well, it's Well has molly recognized these issues of course. I think that's uh, that's a given However, I think it's important as the international community to understand that you can't really deal with these issues in three days and then set a report saying well, we've been successful. I think that A long-term approach is really What needs to happen and it's really unfair to ask for results. I think within you know, very short period of time but I think that I mean the issues are quite well understood and um Really what has happened in in 2012 has contributed to Malians within malian outside of malia to really spend time and in understanding what what is happening in the country I I would say that um, you know, what I think of how did this all go so very wrong? There are three categories of things for me The three sort of fatal elements and the biggest one that is specific to molly is opposed to perhaps coming in from elsewhere Uh, would be you know, these delightful people who took their best characteristics To too far of an extreme to an extent that became corrosive and I mean in particular You know, but malians are the nicest most consensual people on the planet and all those wonderful mechanisms for diffusing conflicts uh became um an unwillingness to Engage in the constructive criticism that is so important to a democracy And I think that part of it was not a matter of policy, but a side product of policy You know at te te coming to power after What was then viewed in molly? Of course, they had not seen a more recent american standard of a very sharp domestic political discourse um a shoot Membership in a political party because the the the atmosphere had become so poisonous But that's you know in looking at the former imf representative. That's like saying in economics Okay, if you're going to intervene in your currency, you can lean against the wind, but you can't push with it um and by By stressing consensus that turned out to be ultimately corrosive and allowed corruption to creep in allowed the hollowing out of institutions Which made a lot of malians mad, but in fine malian fashion rather than Talking about that or confronting that People would just sort of grumbling about it when the coup finally happened everybody could say yeah And i'm really mad about that and i'm really mad about that too And one of the things that I love so much now seeing in mali, but I think drives our our consensual consensually Bent malians a bit to distraction Is a very critical debate about what is happening? And you know, I'm no longer the ambassador to mali and I'm not here to either defend or condemn any malian leader But I think it's great that people are asking hard questions and bringing their government to account And that's exactly what mali needed and did not have that was a big part Of bringing it to where it was today The other two fyi I You know also a victim of a Victim you know the the Post libya the the toireis who came back to mali where people who were either born there or left mali in the 1970s So therefore significantly had never reconciled themselves to any of the intervening Peace agreements with the toireis and so came back as a well-oiled fighting force Looking for something to do and finding a ready new generation of toirei descent to glom onto And then I think the other factor that absolutely cannot be underestimated is that the encroaching extremism in mali Created another power dynamic beyond Sort of rebellion or traditional hierarchy as paths to success and prominence and power So the idea of toirei extremists is making that deal with the devil to allow a qi m to come in And furthermore those two streams of toirei rebellion Not necessarily cooperating with each other but kind of happening at the same time Was all the more difficult for a hollow Outset of institutions to counter and has an odd of explanatory Value in this context and all the more reason to go back up that spiral to be able to address those problems in turn Um, I think I just sort of reiterate exactly what what was already said I mean the the point of the peace deal is you have to figure out what to do With these armies that are standing against the government. They have to there has to be a ddr process They have to figure out a way to weed out the the political fighting from the extremism And then you can focus and the mali military and the and the international forces can focus specifically on improving themselves and Reorganizing themselves and addressing these challenges. They're not new challenges and they're not going anywhere. So It's it's part of this is this is the next phase and they and it's gonna it's gonna be a lot of work And it's not easy. It's gonna be slow, but um, but there is you know, they're slowly but surely baby steps Okay, I have a gentleman in the back I'm chris iskiro from the center for international relations um Now there are certain things that that have changed in the narrative of the conflict over time and one of the tendencies that we see is the understatement of the role of the uh, of the jihadists in what happened in in 2012 now the uh, the tori were not defeated by the french Or the malin army that were defeated by the answer dean The jihadists in the battle of gao and that's something to remember not only that but also uh, since then The torix have been good allies to the french force In pursuing the war against terrorism against the jihadists. So these are interesting dynamics that we need to remember so Why is this important? because The al-Qaeda of the maharib as you very well mentioned as ambassador Have been playing that role of steering ethnic groups against the south against bamako and this is not just With the uh, duareg. It's with the fulani It's with other groups that have been marginalized because of the drought because of the corruption and all the other problems in mali and so The uh, the question here is because we talked about disarmament of the rebels before we start the process Why is this so important? We haven't done it in colombia. We haven't done it in northern ireland. The political process began Far after far before the rebel groups disarmed And if you like with the example of the elections in 2013 Well, the duareg pretty did a pretty good job in withdrawing to allow the elections to take place Even though they held their arms. So why are we stuck with this issue? while As we procrastinate in the peace process. We have this Continuous bleeding of former um, duareg and arab and other uh, insurgents Towards the jihadist movements that are increasingly becoming connected Not to the al-qaeda of the maharib, but to isis and other intruders in the region, you know connecting through boko haram In i gary and so on why is it such an important issue to disarm the the rebels before the political process takes off Thank you wants to know because i've had some Very long discussions with that I would say simply clearly it isn't that important because that process has gone It is ultimately important to accomplish But I think that what we have just described is the fact that the process has gone a very long way without that yet Being fully accomplished. Um, so it is one of the things that needs to happen And I think that the contested status of of qidal and the complications that that brings on so many levels for for governance and security and surface delivery How do you have you know the disagreement about moving to Lower forms of elections shows that ultimately has to be accomplished And at the end of the day as I said earlier you have to get the people who are willing to be with the state Not spurn the state And and act together so that you can tackle these longer term issues. I think that's where I would go with that comment and I would also say that Nobody really People didn't necessarily defeat anybody in the north of mali, you know people sort of maybe walked in after Movement of people but it is it is striking to think about the change how Small the loss of life was to change control of that vast of a territory I mean, I think that uh, you know fair enough, uh, the I think the issue is so we were all I mean a lot of us were there when uh, the prime minister musamar went to qidal On a trip and uh, we saw just how quickly the situation degenerated back into What we thought was actually going to be a lot worse than it was and thankfully things were calmed down And I think that that's just an example when you have different when you have armies that are holding guns against each other They're not one or the same not even it's it's just as has been mentioned here before It the likely of going back into conflict within five years is is Exponential when there's not a process and it's not about you know, there there's all sorts of great ways to do this And like you mentioned a bunch of examples. There's a whole bunch There's you know, there's local police groups or there's local protection organizations or there's reintegration into the malian military There's a whole and these are discussions and that the malians need to have And figure this out But they have to figure out how to how to bring together one chain of command so that they can then go after the bad guys Because it's getting the security situation. We all saw the radison the the the terrorist situation is getting worse And and it needs to be addressed in short order Okay, please Can we have a mic? My name is chanat livali and i'm the ambassador of mali to the united states Okay Well, I cannot but start by thanking the american people for All what you're doing for my country. I want to thank president barack obama for his decision to Have the american forces help the french forces during the operation servile and the american forces are today again Helping the barkan helping munisma to help mali get out of the crisis we have and Well, since I have been In office here I have been really very very much impressed Of the generosity of the american people just look at all of those people who come here And just because that you all love mali and mali loves you I think nobody expects me Of saying Many things bad about the way the government is doing things today And I will not say that What I will say is that Well, the the job is not is not totally done yet We are very grateful to the international community for all what has been done On the multilateral basis on the bilateral basis um The mismar which was african became munisma and Like what I just said the french government the american government All the world Has helped mali and he's going keeping doing it. Just I heard in the news just a few days ago that the 600 German soldiers will go to to mali. So a lot has been done, but a lot Remains You know that the peace agreement was signed in may and june of last year And that there is an implementation procedure Which is In which the government is held the government and the former rebels are helped by the international community Exactly those who were with us in algea. That is all the neighbors of mali african union european union united nations The french and the u.s government said that they are not member of the committee, but still were there as observers and We need We need that system continue that this system continues during the negotiations At many times the negotiations have started in july of 2014 and Well, they did not end before the 20th of 28th of february 2015. So it's from july to february Has been very long and it has been necessary many times to put pressure I think That there has been much more pressure on the government than on the rebels and that is But I think that is a normal way of doing things when there is a rebellion and there are peace talks Then well the party which is supposed to be the the strongest Which was not the case this time. But anyway, the government is always considered as stronger than the rebels So the government is the one Which have suffered more pressure from the international community And I think president by hibwa harketa did accept the pressures that he did accept the peace agreement He accepted into the negotiation things With which everybody not everybody in mali agreed that the reason why The president had to send his ministers out in the country to explain the peace agreement when you say negotiations you mean That you have to give up something to get something else and the president did accept many many many things A few days ago Because the implementation of the peace process was slowing down The the president the prime minister first and the president have Had talks with the leaders of the rebellions And I think things are back again On track they have decided that a meeting Will be held in qidal by the end of this month A two month Action plan has been Decided so I think the the peace process will really Come back on track and things will go now about all the Governments issues the the corruption issues Nobody Refuses that those things exist. I think president attete before he he was Overthrown Has decided to appoint a special High officer in against the corruption and the man he had to organize a conference national conference against corruption was The man who is prime minister today And the president ibrahim bobakar keita Has decided has decreed it that year the year 2014 was the year against corruption. I'm not saying that Neither one of them has succeeded, but I'm saying that Yes, they are aware That corruption is one of the worst things happening today in mali and they that the president know that Things will not work with the corruption going on is but then Well A time has happened in the past Where there existed much much much less corruption in mali than there is it is today So it means that if the peace agreement is correctly implemented Then The the management of the country I think will come back into a normal way My Conclusion then is But by what I started with that is a lot has been done But the job is not over So please help us Thank you Just I just have to say one short thing which is that it is a A fondly held tenet of mali and culture to tease those who are very close to you So I just cannot resist Mr. Ambassador to say that uh when I spoke with mali and rebel groups Me of only pressuring them too Okay, we have one in the back. Yes, thank you. My name is mojibo damele. I'm a journalist at America Originally I'm from mali, but I'm here today as a journalist So before I ask my question, I just have a general observation about what's going on right now in mali And we know this since the signing of the peace deal Timble to gao, you know, the malian government has full control over those region And but we notice one thing that they spread out of insecurity almost from the north to everywhere in the country We have killing on a daily basis And uh right now the most dangerous stuff is the rise of religious extremism And also a lot of people many many people left mali and they went to the neighboring countries And my question is Yes, I know the u.s. Embassy in mali have translated the peace agreement in bambara And many other languages But what is happening in mali? We have three major issues illiteracy poverty and the youth unemployment You can translate for instance a text in toareg or in bambara And it is not easy for people who have not learned like the alphabet to read it So my question is what u.s. Is doing to help Especially like the return of those million of refugees Right now also we know we notice that we have a lot of people especially Discussing like those tribal leaders We have signed a piece but it's like the real authors. They were not there So what u.s. Is planning to help like the return of those refugees and also To fully implement the malian government because still now the malian government is not present in qidal And we have like The uh those rebel groups mna you can name all of them every day that is killing And the most dangerous things mali is almost 80 to 95 percent in muslim countries And we notice like the rise of the intolerance among christians Muslim So what you what what is there the course of action that u.s. Is planning to do in order to tackle All of those issues because somebody who doesn't have a job if you don't even you don't want to join Like those religious groups sometimes they give them money So what is u.s. Planning to do thank you I would love for jul to talk about some of the particular reconciliation activities, but going back to I don't want to repeat the same thing all over but Going back to my point about reversing the spiral You know when there was a coup in mali the u.s. Government as a matter of legislation as well as policy is is forced to Stop certain types of assistance Among which education among which that was non humanitarian in nature And so indeed as as we talk about we talked about the need to get back to an democratically elected government It's because many governments and not only mine Find it difficult to work with the government in that circumstances on the full range of issues that we have been working to address Some of the very pressing needs of education and services to which you referred So I think that that's part of the reversal of the spiral story I think that the implementation of the peace process is also a huge part of the story about Fixing the anomaly of the the kadal outlier because that is the most contentious place For for those discussions because of its demographic profile But I would love to hear joel talking about some of the reconciliation activities that we were doing and for which There are some follow-on Programs through us a id to continue Yeah, so good questions One, you know, you're absolutely right about literacy, which is a huge problem. We actually put the we used extensively radio understanding this issue Extensively radio across the country in local languages Including reading the accord in local languages on the radio to be able to reach folks so I think that there's a couple a couple of issues here The first is that you know OTI was Is a as an office that responds to political crises a lot of the issues that you have rightly addressed are chronic problems of poverty And so on the first hand, I'd like to you know, I like to think with peace if you look at the the malian economy in end of 2012 2013 Was down to about 10 billion dollars It it grew by 30 percent over the next couple of years because of stability Peace and stability bring economic growth and there's where the malian economy is going to be able to then Create the the windfalls necessary to be able to invest in education and invest in literacy as a country Without depending on the donors, but we know that's a long ways away. The the second issue is The usaid program and unfortunately the usaid mission director could not be here today with us But the usaid mission is it is a large mission with with large offices of education economic growth That Have been working in the south and that require a certain amount of Security of stability to be able to implement long-term development programs in the north Which is why we need a peace deal and which is then why we need to be able to challenge some of these Some of these terrorist organizations too. So it's all a bit of a you know, it's it's like a it's like dominoes But they're still there there and they will and the u.s. Government will remain committed to development in in mali, you know for you know generation the But specifically as far as the the implementation of the peace deals one of the ways that That that oti works in missions with embassies and with usaid missions is we We are there for to be catalytic at a particular moment in time We worked very closely with the mission to design a mechanism that the mission will be running to help with the countering extremism And implementing the peace deal and that's going to be run out of the democracy office in the mission And it's actually going to be implemented as well by a common international development So we're not losing the dna as our director likes to say the dna of what we did Over the last three years will remain impregnated in the follow-on program that will continue to challenge these issues But my final point is We love to help, you know, this is it's we believe in this work But at the end of the day these are malian issues and we will help as much as we possibly can But it's for the malian government and the malian people to to to fix these things in the long term Maybe just to piggyback on what you just said Yes, these are malian issues and because these are malian issues, what we at the net do is really support Initiatives that come from malians. We're not an implementer We fund programs that civil society groups present to us. So there are a few that are currently working in northern mali, but also throughout the country to explain The content of the peace agreement in in different languages Barbara Songhai Bobo all of these Languages to local groups, but our financial capabilities are not comparable to that of us aid or oti. So I guess we will probably yeah achieve some results over the next few years, but we don't have as much money as you Okay, um, let's see. Let's go back here Thank you Hi, everyone. Thank you so much for your elaboration and sharing what you know about mali. My name is amadu maiga I'm from mali I was born in mali and I grew up in mali. I just came in us on march As a huber hamfrey fellow. I'm a student at the emory university Atlanta, georgia So thank you so much as over Official mali and so official said They need help I'm talking about Mali my experience is the hardship That we experienced in 2012 in mali as mali and talking malian citizens simply What normal at grassroot level people Think the perception that Normal malian have nowadays is that There is kind of a cohabitation because this crisis is a kind of a result of failure of international policy because the crisis in mali Causes we have internal causes and external causes So what people think like now is like Peace agreement signing it doesn't mean peace real peace real peace is what we build as community when I look at During my work experiences as a humanitarian worker and peace builder There is kind of a Challenges that this 2012 crisis rising in mali We have extreme violences that we are talking about today Is due to extreme poverty if really this country need real peace we need to invest in real economical growth and economical economical production activities to keep young men Expecting to have to have hope Uh such as Some part I'm talking about a big challenge is rising since the 2012 crisis happened in mali is like we are community we are we are as malian we are Old civilization Our society is built like you diversity is real diversity, but Today, uh, it's like Some part of population is feeling as victims We have a kind of victimization of a part of ethnic groups and Some are this can be really an intended Consequences of international police intervention. So thank you and and welcome to america Do you would you like to pose a question? Yes Now what's What is the effectiveness of? Of international intervention for building peace because we have so many challenges that Is looks like people are more focusing on political process than not tackling the deep root causes of this crisis. Okay. Thank you I can take that. Okay. So um And this is where the ambassador mentioned some of our reconciliation activities actually one We um and and it will continue and it needs to continue You know mali created the ministry of national reconciliation a new ministry to to address exactly these issues and the realization that there had been Ethnic conflicts that were exacerbated during the during during this during this this period that need to be addressed And they're doing work as a new ministry and we worked a lot with them very closely And it was a great relationship. Um, but at the at the grassroots level we did i mean Dozens if not hundreds of local level discussions and every and as you know, every every challenge was different At one point it's the poll community that had a had a conflict with the twig Sometimes it was the white twig against the black twig Sometimes it was the bozo against and every and every situation was unique when al-qaeda came through They they identified very quickly what the conflicts were and made them worse So when we got there the this this rich fabric of of society, which makes mali resilient for as you mentioned a thousand years um Was fraying or was frayed by this by this occupation that that the the especially the northerners considered unprecedented strangers foreigners came in so we um We began to work and like I said through a bunch of our activities And we're not you know, we just did we did it for to demonstrate the possibility of doing it and then to show That it was that that there was a way using and collaborating with malian culture to to To jump start this process and it continues today when you look at the discussions that happened in anifes When you look at all of these different local level the room the ministry of reconciliations tour along the Niger Where they stopped village by village by village and talk to the local leader this this is something that um that You know the usa will continue to support but that the malians themselves are are beginning the process of doing and I think that it's It's healthy and it's it's important I've won up here My name is jordan ryan. I'm the vice president of peace program at the carter center, and I want to thank usa ip and i'm very glad that The ambassador from mali here as minister of health is coming to atlanta In part to talk about the guinea worm program as many of you know President carter has said that his fondest hope is to stay along alive long enough to see The last guinea worm died the five cases in 2015 in mali And we all know with conflict Comes the the inability to really get to some of the villages where those last remaining guinea worms are And it's in that context that i'd like to ask Both these you know, I think a tremendous discussion here um From those that really been on the ground and looking at at how to Both sort of kick start peace the lessons learned about speed and effectiveness about bringing people involved But then to hear the ambassador say Well the end of the month we hope to have a conference and we're working on the peace Implementation over the next couple of months. It would be interesting to hear both from those Sort of outside observers as well as perhaps the ambassador Where are the real impediments? What really has to be done in terms of Both the very short-term action of the next couple of months that can really step up the implementation Of the peace accord Obviously it will be the long term that matters of changing the dynamics of making sure involvement But are there things that need to be done quickly? To make sure that there's a continued momentum Of implementation of the peace agreement and we certainly see the link between peace and health and look forward to see you in Atlanta next week Because we want to make sure that last anymore dies very quickly So the the the peace agreement says that All the combatants Should go into Contourment And then that that is a gdr the demobilization The The decrees have been taken and all the the armed groups actually Have given the lease of their their soldiers to the munisma So what had to be done in the coming days is to to implement that So the the munisma should give be a given Either the the the the means or the instructions To go to go ahead Another thing that has to be done and that is the most important today is to stop the terrorism You know that after the the french operation Serval We thought that the terrorists are out of the country that the after the wagadou The 18th of june 2013 agreement was signed the elections were Undertaken and the next was just to To go ahead with the negotiations and then The jihadists came and they started attacking at the beginning. They were only attacking in the north, but then Now every other day you would hear that they have made an attack in the north in the center in the south in the north in the center In the south and then they attacked in bamako what they want What they want the terrorists is that While mali's partners would be afraid to go to mali they don't want you to like mali I hope they won't convince you you will keep on loving mali, right? right and yeah, there's so The the fight against terrorism is today the The the priority of the priorities and like I was Saying a lot has been done the the united states government The president has decided to be to have mali into the sji the security government initiative Just a few days ago. I was at the state department. I have heard Much more good news from from them And I know that the implementation of all of that will help us get rid of the terrorism once we that is done Then the three billion heroes that have been pledged at the October 22nd conference in ocd in paris. That is enough money When it is all invested in in the north the usa id has a five-year program very a lot of money And most of it will be invested in the north so the the The commitment of president cater To implement the peace process and to have the peace process the implementation will Help the north of the mali catch up on the The the development Delay that the north has On the south everybody agrees on that No, but then what do we do so that the north will catch up. So once the terrorism is out The peace will be in and the corruption will stop and the governance of governance will be good and mali Will become the paradise It has been right Okay, we have time for a few more questions. I'm gonna take this loving woman here and then go to the back And in the first the yellow Oh, no right behind you. Can we just do this person? Thank you. She's been waiting for me We'll hand it to you next. Hi. My name is isa tatiam. I'm From mali and I'm really thankful. I feel the love in this room. I want to thank everybody for Showing so much interest in in mali and our problems I do have a comment and a question the comment is about the globalization of this thing I know we have problems in mali because the the dea Uh Fight against drugs in the united states and elsewhere Made it so that we became the leak the weakest link For the drug traffickers to come in the north of mali and do their things So I do think that all of us should feel responsible for what's happening right now in mali The second question or comment that I have is that uh, the diaspora's role is very important I know most of the time USAID and most of the international partner are talking directly to the government But I do know that we as diaspora we love our country. We have resources. We have expertise We have competencies and we love all of the people here to see how we can build together strategic partnership and Coalitions so that all of the things that are happening are coordinated the resources are there You just need to make sure they're well coordinated and then make some impact in mali. Thank you again Her question was much better than mine, but Just a follow-up about other issues. Did you introduce yourself, please? Uh, Redalia Murray. I'm a mali lover. Um, I'm an independent consultant on the Sahel and especially mali Uh, so my question is in regard to Instability in the north and the reasons why peace accord doesn't succeed When when I follow mali and I see the names Sign in the accord It makes me upset especially what that I follow the country That's why the accord doesn't exceed succeed When we talk about the NFE's discussions when I see the accord who signed the accord Names are that have been involved in illicit activities not known to be involved in illicit activities Yet to do still they they have participated in previous accords in 2000s in the 90s and yet to do still being involved Despite the failure of the accord. So what are what the malian government and its partners doing to pressure? Pressure does personalize those individuals or other communities to sideline them and To move forward and prevent from falling from the same same problem Uh, second question to Joel directly about the we know that north one of the issues is division among communities Between the twaric herbs on guy pearl So what otai has done some of the success stories that you have you can share with us about to to bring those communities together Thank you. Okay, so i'm going to ask our panel to take this opportunity perhaps to provide An answer to this gentleman's questions, but also to give some concluding comments and we'll end with we'll end with Joel Thank you So maybe my concluding comments will address the issue of the diaspora which I consider myself a part of the malian diaspora because I do have a malian passport in addition to an american passport And i'm also the vice president of the associate l'association des maliens de washington dc The malian association of washington dc and i think that And i think i mentioned that in my comments The contribution that the diaspora the malian diaspora Has currently in in mali is is much bigger than it has been before And that is because we are paying attention to what is happening. We want to be involved in solving The problems of mali we want to be on panels and we want to talk about What we think are the main issues in mali, so We're really hoping That this trend continues that the the mali program at voa will continue to come to events as it as they relate to to mali and the and the sahel and I work with the net at the net. I started the mali program at the net But for example, um, I this is my first time to meet joel in dc. We've only met in bamako before So we do we are coordinating efforts. I'm doing it because it is my job but i'm also doing it because mali is very close to my heart and Because it is my country I would say that um As a as a as a top line thing to finish with that Democracy secede the best with when their citizens are active When they are requiring of their government when they are committed and when they are engaged And that stands for malians, whether they be within mali or or here in the united states And I think that uh, you know malians as a people have great tools to succeed in this endeavor And there is an enormous. Yes It is a crisis that had both internal and external elements to it There is also an enormous international community commitment to help malian succeed And we want them to not only for themselves, but for the larger security of all their neighbors Thank you Yeah, so just to answer that question real quick You know one of the one of the things we worked a lot on was was this reconciliation because you're right There was just one of it's one of the things that that comes to the fore whenever you talk to anybody And every it's all context-specific, but you know a lot of there's a lot of good examples And i'll give you a couple of stories, but um watching Watching a We supported a rally or a gathering in gao Filled the stadium three four thousand people in gao. This is when the rebels had refused to initial the peace deal and a Torek a tamashic leader From a different clan stood up and gave this an on or tm this first time to be able to address the nation Probably and stood up on or tm talked directly to the rebel leadership and said we're the same People or that we have the same history. We have the same past. We have the same future. We have the same blood We need you to come on to return to us and to stop Stop opposing this and this wasn't from a minister and this wasn't from this was from someone who probably never had an opportunity Giving people at the at the very the people who were affected by the conflict who lived the crisis the opportunity to speak out That's where oti. That's right. That's that's the work that we do and that's the powerful Ability that we have to to give people to give voice to the voiceless and I think that another example We did a big concert It was a theater competition in in timbuk too and one of the participants said the french gave me back my country but this competition gave me back my town And those types of things they say now I can stand beside an arab and I can stand beside a and and when we can be together Again, um, and there's a lot of examples because we did so many activities But you're absolutely right and we hope our idea is to be catalytic So we hope that it continues. We hope that we've we've worked with great malian local Folks to demonstrate that it can be done and show them that that there's people who care about this And now it's it's upon them to continue and so just for my last, um, you know, I really It was remarkable to watch how mali recovered This you look at other countries that that fall into these deep deep Ditches these deep and they can't they can't crawl themselves. They can't pull themselves out. They get stuck And mali did not get stuck. It has decided that it is going to overcome this And now we have terrorism. We have, you know, the radison and we have And implementation of in one step, but one step, you know This the african adage you eat an elephant one bite at a time And it was a remarkable opportunity for us to participate at least in a small way in that Thank you And thank you to us. Yes. So ladies and gentlemen, I want to thank you I want to thank USAID OTI for coming to us with an idea To hold this event And I think that we're very happy that we were able to partner with them I want to thank our our amazing panel and I want to thank all of you who I hope will continue to help You must continue actually to help mali. So thank you so much