 That means taking the money from state-owned by forestry which centralise planning to socialise forestry. According to the recent assessment of the forest, you could see the breakdown of the total fund investment for 5 million hectare reforestation programme. So that means that this investment is a key financial source mobilised and used for the 5 million hectare reforestation programme. Finally, the forest sector has been actively involved in employment creation and neighbourhood improvement for nearly 25% of the Vietnamese people who live in the mountain area. Some reason for the achievement is the first, the state has paid more attention to forest protection and development and development policy and life in the nationwide programme. For example, we have policy support for forest production for its new plantation forest. Our government supports about 200 US dollars per hectare. The second is the continuous and sustainable growth of the national economy has created favorable conditions for forestry development. The third is science and technology transfer on plantations as the police techniques have made progress contribute to boost the quality and efficiency of a forest station in the recent year. Finally, forest protection and development and poverty reduction in the rural mountain area have received significant support from the international community. We estimate that we have received support from more than 20 international communities. But we also have some achievements. We have some source coming in which less is included. First, the quality and biodiversity of the natural forest has been continuously reduced. As you know, now we have about 10 million hightar natural forests, but most of them are poor forests. So our biodiversity of the natural forest has reduced and the forest sector growth is low and unsustainable. The third is low in profits and waste in competitiveness and the potential of forest resources has not been properly and comprehensively. Objects and tasks to 2020, we carry out the plan for a protection and development phase from 2011 to 2020. You can understand this is the first second of our 5 million hightar forest station program. Our objective is first to protect forest area and increase forest cover to 42 to 43 percent. A number in 2010, they still have 3.5 million hightar and today they claim they have already implanted 6.5 million hightar. It is still not more than 5 million hightar. I think it is very something that we have to learn the policy. We have to learn how to anticipate the local problem, social conflict and also the transition cost that it stated in this morning. That's all my presentation. Thank you. Thank you. Those are the presentation from the big company. Every percent about 1 percent of total wood-created manufacturers. Indonesia here shares about 2 percent of total wood and furniture. We can see from the graphic here. Indonesia has 2 percent, Malaysia has 3 percent and Vietnam has 5 percent. Actually, what I show you here is closely same with what I have here for this tunnel. Next. Learning from Dibara, in Dibara we have about 12,000 businesses. That's quite big. This is special in furniture but it's not only for the producers but also the sawmill, showroom and also some other small businesses. Estimated about 0.9 million metacubic, many tick processed yearly. We have Mount Vali, we have Mildi, we have Trombi Sea and other woods that we process in Japan. We have also Mango Wood, many alternative wood that we process for furniture. Wood source from Forest and Java and Eastern Java. Food industry represent about 20 percent of Dibara's economy. This is the biggest fresh in pace in other businesses in Dibara. Small-medium enterprises account for 9 percent of productions and debuts of approximately 5 million people depend on furniture industry and exchange. We can see the position of small-scale producers here. That actually the small producers, I mean the orders is driven by buyers. The position of small-scale producers is connected to domestic furniture brokers. Connected with the finishing companies and exporters. But also small producers can connect with domestic retailer and finally they can connect them with domestic and customer. Before process of produce for the small-scale producer, they connected with the wood retailer, they buy from the wood retailer and they connected with the sawmill because they saw the woods to the sawmill before processing. And the wood retailer, they connected with Borbutani. Some of the wood is bought from different places, from Borbutani and from outside Java Forest and also from the community-based agroforestry and also from undocumented source. This is normally from Kanpo, we call it in Java. This is from Village, the people when they need money and then they just sell it and then the small producers buy it. This is without any document that one, they directly process. Next. And we can see the role of producer organizations in Epic AG is small-scale furniture producers and was established in July, 2009 to July 2009. At the moment we have 124 members with 121 mail and 3 female representatives from the classes in the whole sub-historic in Jebara. Why we have 12,000 but the members of Epic AG is only 120. This is a really recent thing of small group in each Felix. And sub-historic also and then they represent to be members of Epic AG. And the role are creating space for sharing information among small-scale producers and voice their aspirations. A multi-level playing field, large-scale furniture association recognizing our knowledge by its bar government because we know that if personal it's not easy. Thank you again. Ladies and gentlemen, this morning you heard from the president he talked about the landscape. Also from the DG of C4 you heard that the landscape approach is a must to sustain and also to improve livelihood of the local community. But the question is how to do it is not what to do. Landscape approach is fine but how to do landscape approach on the ground? Next please. I try to describe the landscape. Landscape is not empty. Also landscape is not unified of land uses. There are variety of land uses on the landscape. You see a forest corn is a national parks bin. This forest margin, planted forest of concession bin but also agriculture state. And many times the funding of agriculture land is higher than the forest land. So there is a, what we call it, there is a present from agriculture to forested area. Wild farm is, people love wild farm more than the forest. But it's not only that, there is a, to me it's like horizontal inequality among the landscape, among the land uses. But also some vertical inequality. Because as Sultan mentioned, the value of forest product, for instance an agricultural product that is value added is enjoyed by actor who is not on the landscape. Actually actors in London, actors in France, actually enjoy a lot, obtain a greater value added rather than actor on the landscape. And then create conflict. We've been operating Indonesia for about five years and looking at the forestry sector for about the same time. So the perspective that we took is a very much project oriented perspective with also an approach to business. We wanted to, we want to finance as a financial institution, financing long term projects. We want to have, of course, a number of projects which can be sustainable both economically, financially, environmentally and of course from a social perspective. I don't know, maybe next, thank you. So the objective is to reconcile economic development and the preservation of public goods and of course implement what the government of Indonesia has chosen to develop in terms of policies. So rent haircut and the forest management unit. The value for which I'm going to deal with are the key elements of that aspect. Next. So we started from findings about the business in Indonesia in the forestry sector. There is very little profitability in natural forest management companies. So the current practices are not sustainable anymore and profit is probably going to be negative and is already negative. So you have a number of options for essentially turning around the businesses who are already engaged in forestry. You can have some niches like TIC with high value and strong demand. You can have rubber also which is part for us of the forestry sector with an access to international markets. You have also fast-going species like Agassia manjong, like Dabong and so on and so forth. Planted in areas which are next to the commercial routes next to the infrastructure and we feel that there's probably options for investors to go into those directions. Next please. So what we see is that plantations require secure lands and we would probably insist on that aspect very much. So it's 30 million hectares of permanent forest with actually cover available. But of course you know about the encouragement, about illegal logging, about also the relationship with communities which were spread by some of our colleagues. And of course these developments require capital and forest journalism. So you have to bring together a lot of factors to make those investment goals. So again we choose to support sustainable project investment models so environmentally sustainable, socially responsible, economically viable as I said and showing controllable and manageable risks. And so the risk mapping and the adequate risk mitigation solutions are key for the investors to come into those projects. That brings us to the next slide, which is actually the means of creating a favorable business environment. And this is very important in Indonesia with the incoming reform which has been actually going on for two years. It's the development of FMUs, forest management units, called KEPA in Indonesia. There is potential for spreading those KEPA across 110 million hectares with 600 KEPA that is managed units by the end of 2019. So what's the interest of having those KEPA from an investment portfolio is to have actually first of all long term planning. That brings us back to the landscape that we're mentioning. So having these landscape management very well devised is probably one of the key risks. Land tender security of course is very important for the investor. Local communities inclusiveness and we will show you what we did in Sulawesi by supporting these communities developing their own plantations. Law enforcement and governance and of course professional forest management. This is key because we find that many investors locally like Jeffrey Blate and with the US Forest Service based in Bangkok on the regional forest advisory. I actually don't have an answer but I do have a few questions. No one actually spoke very much about natural forest in the region although it was well pointed out that sustainable management in natural forest in the region really seems to not be very viable and profitable and also that the resource is mostly exhausted. So I have a few questions in this regard. The first is with the focus on plantations, what is the effect of the focus on plantations for natural forests? Is investment in plantations actually reducing pressure on natural forests which is kind of an assumption about investments in plantations related to that, what is the effect of increased donor attention and investment in plantations? I mean the last speaker was very interesting. There's a simple business model that you're seeking that's quite interesting but I'm just wondering what is the effect of that approach on natural forests? Is it actually reducing pressure on those natural forests? And then one speaker talked about a more mixed model where I guess my question is, is there a role or is there any prospect of having multiple use forest management in a landscape where there are multiple land uses where there might be some multiple use management of natural forests alongside plantations and agroforestry like reading into the mosaic as the professor talked about. Hopefully those questions were clear. Sorry, I don't have an answer to your question. Okay, thank you. We can continue. The conflict between the company and the local community because it's very simple. There is no land in Indonesia where there is everything from actors. There's people already there. So sometimes the government allocates the forest, state forest to the company for Acacia, for instance. But disregard the right of the local community. On the map, you can invest there because there's a state land but actually the local community will travel in our case and it's already there. So it can be a threat to the investment of the plantations to the local community. But we have to boost the plantations as well. So as I think I said with the Kampiha model, it's very, very important to have clean and clear spatial planning where the plantation is, where the natural forest is. Otherwise it's very, very difficult. Now, for instance, if I answer Professor Heman, the national production of planted forest, 19 million cubic meters is increasing sharply and the national production of natural forest decreasing was 9 million cubic meters. It was actually 27 million cubic meters. It was in 90 something. It was 30 million as decreasing to 9 million cubic meters for natural forest. First of all, then we can come all nice to this kind of situation. Yes. Okay. Well, I quite like you. Well, Indonesia, most lands, of course, are good. And the emphasis you put on the Kampiha, I think, is well placed because when you look at the landscape, you start with an inventory of what exists. And based on that, you have an official map today in Indonesia which gives you a very precise allocation of the land between the players. And you can delineate very precisely the natural forest and the secondary forest in existence which has to be protected. So I think it's a very good step forward. And the Kampiha reform is also pushing into this direction. So inventory and long-term planning per Kampiha is probably one of the answers to reduce the pressure on the remaining natural forest. Now, when existing on plantation is also existing, as you said, on replacing or providing rubber to the industry the wood they need to produce. So plantation answers these need which is this mountain pressure for commodities. So in the deal that I tried to present, the deal is to say on a given concession, for instance, to the investor who wants to plant, let's say rubber as another example. I want to develop 10,000 or 50,000 acres of rubber on a concession where you have protection forests, conservation forests and forests to be rehabilitated. Now, this investor doesn't know about sustainable management of timber. So having this mapping and having the right needs and the right agreement with the local Kampiha for preserving this forest patch, which is remaining on the concession, is probably the way forward. You can't prevent people from investing into valuable commodity. It's kind of a legal wise. But you can help mitigate the effects or avoid completely the effects on the remaining natural forest. Within this framework, we will have encroachments like some plantations of other industries striking a deal in the backyard with the concessionaire to use part of the concession for... to just have practical answers to the same question whether the planted timber of the timber plantation can save natural forest. So I just go back to my case in Thailand. When you want to save natural forest, just put it in total organic land, then convert it into a concession forest, then people will go to plant the same forest or low quality timber for the production. That's how we can save the natural forest. And second case, I also got from my village in West Sumatra where agroforestry has been practiced for a long, long time ago. And now when the timber from the natural forest has been stopped, has been declined, and people now start cutting the agroforest like Suryan for their... for their... for nature. So maybe this is my practical question to that. Put an answer to that question. Thank you very much. Okay, thank you. I think we just lost the timber in terms of biodiversity, in terms of market mechanism, in terms of value and everything like that. So the conclusion is to answer this question we need more research, more discussion, more communication. So I probably say as if all would like to add another here to... to develop this research to answer this question. The second one, it seems to be that there are a lot of funding in this timber production. And we should be able to develop a model of public resolution. It means we have to do multi-stakeholder assessment who is going to be participating in that and then multi-stakeholder trade-off to define what everybody has and how much everybody will have. We have this benefit. So we still have that issue. The second issue that we'll be able for our future solution is probably more communication between all stakeholders, not just government with government, but government with private sector together in one room. So they can probably discuss everything together. Usually government talks with the government, private sector talks with private sector. Academic will also talk with the academic and everybody seems to be suggesting something for the other group to do something. So we need a solution to combine model. And that's probably the conclusion. If you agree, we say that we need some more research, more communication. So the last comment, I would like to announce something. There is a very exciting event on the 7 and 8 o'clock in JAPA rooms. If an event, they're talking about global plan of action for the conservation, sustainable use and development of forest genetic resource in Asia. This event will inform participants of the key findings of the first step of the World Forest Genetic Resources which will be released in summer 2014 and be associated with global plan of action for the conservation, sustainable use, etc.