 So it's like, I can't dunk, but I'm a really good shooter. Some people are saying I can't dunk or shoot, but I deserve an NBA contract. And those people tend to be women, yes. Those people tend to be women, yes. And I only bring that up because that's where Kevin Samuels comes in. Listen, it's the message right here. Black boy tell me how you really feel. Cause I just wanna build with you. Black girl tell me how you really feel. I wanna keep it real with you. I wanna live better, eat better. I wanna love better, sleep better. Yeah, I wanna feel so aligned. Safety and security is important for women. You know, feeling solid. And if your partner is kind of that safety and security for you, then when they are off, then that can be scary. So it's really just about learning, you gotta get with yourself and figure it out. Because I think it is important to be able to create that space. But again, I don't think it's something that we talk about. And I don't think that most women would feel comfortable admitting that it's uncomfortable for their man to be vulnerable with them. I think you just single-handedly validated 30,000 men. Like I'm serious. I think, you know, especially nowadays, the message is that men, going back to what you said, you're not enough. The main one now is you're not expressive enough. You're not emotional enough. You're not in touch with your inner psychology enough. And men are saying, or sometimes just thinking or saying amongst themselves in barbershops, like, you're not ready for that. Because for all intents and purposes, we have been led to believe for millennia that part of our utility is our ability to hold it together even when things are falling apart. And if I fall apart, or if I'm falling apart, how can you dialogue with that as a woman? Because you look to me when you're falling apart. Yeah. You know, so even if I am, I have to pretend. What do you think women could be doing better to make space for that? That dilemma, I guess. Creating their own safety and security within themselves. So I think a lot of relationships are codependent. And they're either codependent or there's two people maybe that are like hyper-independent. And I think that what needs to happen is interdependence. And interdependence is really when two independent people, which you have to first be independent people before this can happen. So when two independent people come together in a mutually beneficial way, like there is a sense of dependence there, you do rely on each other, but you both have your own independence. What that can look like is you don't depend on the other person for your happiness. I think that in and of itself, just that understanding of not depending on another person for your happiness is very freeing. Because I think when a man is in a relationship with a woman, on some level, he wants to make her happy. And I feel like it would relieve y'all of a lot of stress and makes more space for vulnerability if you knew that even if you weren't doing okay at the moment, she would still be able to maintain her own happiness and she would still be good as you're like processing and figuring whatever out. Or that she can help you process and figure it out without making it about her. Yeah, without making it about her, without crumbling, without freaking out. Again, I think it takes a certain amount of strength, it takes a certain amount of self-awareness, takes a certain amount of self-love, fortitude. Like you have to be confident and comfortable in yourself and who you are. And you have to be making sure you're doing the things necessary to take care of yourself as a woman so that you have space to take care of other people that you care about or hold space for other people that you care about. I think a lot of times women do things from a place of lack, you know. I'm gonna do this for you because I'm hoping that you're gonna do something for me in return and that's gonna make me feel good as opposed to I feel so good and I'm so overflowing that I can flow over into you. I think that when a woman is so good within herself that she is just like constantly overflowing, it makes it a lot easier to be there for someone else. Like to put it in a concrete way. Me, when I'm happy and when I've been taking care of myself and when I've been working out and I've been eating healthy and I've been, you know, doing whatever it is that I need to do I've been meditating like whatever it is that I need to do to take care of me, it doesn't matter if somebody cuts me off in traffic, it doesn't matter if somebody cusses me out to my face, it doesn't matter if somebody, my family member, somebody has a stank attitude and they're taking it out on me because I'm happy, I'm good. Like when you're in a good mood, when you're in a good place, there's not a lot that somebody else can do that's going to shake that, that's gonna rock that because you're good. But when you haven't been doing those things or even worse, you've been like depending on somebody else to make you feel that way. And they're only human so they're probably not doing everything that you would want them to have especially since you're probably not happy and you're nitpicking or whatever. Then anything somebody does is gonna get on your nerves. Anything somebody does is gonna be like an earth-shattering experience. Anything someone does you're not gonna be able to hold space or listen or whatever, like you're just gonna snap. So I think that people underestimate the importance of a woman taking care of herself and like being her own peace. Yeah. So let's transition to the namesake of this series, Gavin Sandoz. Hello, sorry. So some of the things he talks about, some of the ways he says men should evaluate women fit feminine and friendly, that's how he puts it. I think he calls it FBI CIA but I think CIA is men, FBI is women. I can't remember what FBI stands for. But anyway, you're saying essentially some of the same things that he says. What are your thoughts on the Kevin Samuels phenomenon? What do you mean by that? You can take it wherever you want. I personally don't care for Kevin Samuels. I don't love his delivery. I think that there are times where he says things that make sense but the thing is I also think that he slides in things that are not healthy. And sometimes that's more dangerous than someone who's just like flat out all the way. Like you know that everything they're saying is bullshit. When it's like bullshit, like a little bit of bullshit mixed in with truth, that's usually when it's most dangerous in my opinion. And I feel like he does that. I mean, and I don't feel like the conversations that he's having, let me preface this by saying, I do not, I am not a Kevin Samuels follower. So anything that I'm talking about will be from a few videos maybe I've seen here and there in some clips. There's been very few full videos that I've seen of him. So my opinion is on a limited, like his view of his work. But I don't feel like his conversations are productive. I feel like he is furthering to the divide. And that's the problem that I have with him. I don't think he's helping. Why do you think so many men feel validated by his ministry? I hate to even use that word for him. You know, his ministry? Okay. Because I feel like he says things that makes sense. It's true. He speaks to y'all's experiences and you're not used to that. It's understandable. And I feel like the reason that there's so many angry men like let's say goes, riot is the language of the unheard and y'all have not been heard for a long time. So y'all are lashing the up out right now. That's how I feel. Every black man is a podcaster. And every black man that's a podcaster got some shit to say. You know, go for it. That's cool. So I hear the tone thing a lot. And I think part of the reason I empathize is my tone has improved over the years. I mean, obviously I'm nowhere near Kevin Samuels in age wisdom experience, whatever. But I didn't always have the tone that I have now. I didn't always have the patience, the delivery, the grace that I do now. So I empathize. I see him as the black man's anger translator. And I think that's why I'm not as quick to throw him away. Because I think what he speaks to, and this is gonna segue into my question for you, is the main thing I get from his ministry is that, look, they don't actually want what they say they want. So from the woman who, according to her, was couldn't respect the man unless he made just as much money as her, he was literally saying, are you attractive to the type of man who does make the type of money that you say you can respect? And a lot of times that's not a message of black women get. Women in general get, because you can have anything you want. So what are your thoughts on that? Is there a disconnect between what some women feel deserving of and what they actually qualify for? I know that's a crass term, but do you think there's a disconnect at all? I don't know. The reason that I say I don't know is because who says or who determines what someone qualifies for? I think there's a lot of people who are with someone that the outside world would say they're not qualified for. So I feel like that's tough to say in that respect. Can you ask that again? Maybe in a different way. I want to piggyback off to that point. One of the things that I think is pretty consistent in male nature and in female nature, men tend to deal with probability. Women tend to deal with possibility. So to your point, there are people who the outside world might say are with people they don't qualify for. Do you believe those are the exceptions or the rule? I'll say the rule. They're the rule. I mean, I'm sorry, the exception. The exception, okay, okay, okay. It's the rule that people are generally with people that they qualify for. And I think part of the reason, like Kevin Samuels aside, some of the conversation between men and women doesn't go well is because going back to your point about media not liking black men, going back to your point about black men feeling not good enough, there is a effort. There is a branding effort, marketing effort to tell people that they're not good enough for different reasons, right? To buy things, to make them good enough, whatever the case may be. In our community in particular, there's this idea, and I believe it's born of trauma. It's like a backlash to I'm not good enough, so now I'm the best thing ever, right? And nobody can tell me otherwise I can be whatever weight, whatever mental disposition, and I deserve the best. But what tends to happen is that individual who is quote unquote not good enough will talk down on disrespect people that are actually in their sphere. So with the average of best girl, it wasn't as she said she wants a six-figure man, she said that she can't respect a man who makes $40,000 a year, $50,000 a year, when technically that's what she qualifies for. So why do you think there's this disconnect between the whole qualifying for who you, who is in your league conversation? Because again, who determines what someone's qualified for and what that actually looks like? Like who has the score sheet that says this is what you qualify for? I feel like it is the role that people are with, people that they qualify for, just based off of universal principles, right? I can't tell you, I couldn't take couples that are qualified for each other and tell you why they're qualified for each other necessarily. I can tell you why, maybe I feel like they're compatible, why I feel like they're interested in each other, but like I can't look at myself and be like, Dasha, this is what you qualify for. I think the score sheets are kept by both sides. I think women have a score sheet and I think men have a score sheet. And typically men of means have more access to higher quality women. Quality based on how we assess quality looks, aesthetics, right? And typically, attractive women tend to have more access to high quality men, men of means, men in intelligence, the old nine, right? Do you agree with that? Makes sense, yeah. It seems like that's not the understanding or people are like, no, that's not true. I mean, there are very wealthy men who are with women, who are not the most attractive women because of things like their feminine energy, I feel like, or the kinds of mothers that they are. So I... And to your point, I think that is the more important conversation because if you are willing to make concessions for, if you're willing to strengthen your other offerings, that's one thing. But what tends to happen is I'm not willing to be more nurturing and improve the other auxiliary traits that could make me competitive. I'm just competitive, just off top. So it's like, I can't dunk, but I'm a really good shooter. Some people are saying, I can't dunk or shoot, but I deserve an NBA contract. And those people tend to be women, yes. Those people tend to be women, yes. And I only bring that up because that's where Kevin Sambos comes in. I won't just say those people just tend to be women because men are bold, men are bold. They'll be like, yeah, you know, I just, they'll be, I literally saw this video with this woman. She's a nurse. And this man had just been admitted to the hospital for an overdose. He tells her that he just got out of prison and then proceeds to ask her on a date. Hey, listen, she's so shy. She's so shy. Men, y'all are bold too. Let's not get that twisted. I love y'all, y'all are bold too. I've had some very kind, like, thank you. I think what's tough though, right? I think the main difference is like, our bravery is very quickly challenged and very quickly shut down. So it's like, I can think I'm the fastest dude on my football team, but I gotta line up and race. Yeah. Women, on the other hand, fortunately or unfortunately, you could thank you, that bitch. And you could get lucky enough to fuck that nigga, that guy, that apex guy. Now, he's not gonna wife you. He's not gonna commit to you. He's not gonna, but you can still like, you can still feel and be validated by some of the things that men literally like, if you're not that guy, you're not getting that girl. It's literally cut and dry like that. But for women, you could finesse your way into his VIP section, his bedroom the whole night. So your delusion can be perpetual. And I think that's part of the reason why it's hard for women, for instance, to hear a Kevin Samuels or to hear any pushback for men, even in their lives, like, you're not even working on your jumper, but you still want to be in the league. Like God didn't bless you with hops. Cool. No, I can jump. I go dunk the basketball, I don't have to. But you're not working on your jumper. I just feel like women don't know the metrics. I find maybe they just don't know the metrics. I mean, we talked about the bad bitch mentality and stuff earlier, a little bit, you know, they think not smiling is gonna get somebody to come up with them, up to them. So maybe women just, I mean, I wouldn't say I know the scores. Yeah, what the formula is. I think you have an advantage. What's my advantage? You could dunk. You could dunk. So whereas, you know, another basketball player is gonna have to work on their fundamentals and their shooting. You could come in the gym and boom, you know what I'm saying? So you have an advantage. Now, if you, with that advantage, if you also develop a jump shot, you might be the next MJ, you know? So how do we, because men listen to y'all, like if women say a man in a Birkin bag is sexy, I guarantee you, every hood dude is gonna have a Birkin bag tomorrow. They gonna wear proudly, right? But on the flip side, men's wants and men's asks tend to not be validated. We want y'all to just take me as I am. Yeah, accept whatever we give you. That's tough. I mean, I just feel like there's a reason women feel that way though. Sure. And I feel like, I don't know what it is, I do feel like y'all are playing into it a little bit. Don't face, don't face. I feel like y'all are playing into it a little bit. Absolutely. If y'all chose the kinds of people, or how about this, if y'all completely left alone, what that, completely left alone, the women that go against what you actually want, then women will stop doing that stuff. I really do think that they would. I think it's confusing for women, because you say like, oh, you can sleep with them, or you can get in their VIP section or whatever. It doesn't, so you're gonna let me into your home and you're gonna sleep with me, but you wouldn't be with me. I don't think a woman, even if she understands that on a like an intellectual level, like it doesn't make sense. Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't make sense to us, because that's not how we function. That's not, and so you can tell a woman you're not looking for nothing serious, and proceed to take her out on dates, and hang out with her, and do this, that, and a third. That's confusing for a woman, because you're saying one thing, but you're showing me something different. And a woman who doesn't know what to look for, or doesn't like, is not, no one's put her on game, she's gonna think she's the baddest, because you made her think that she's the baddest, because you literally inserted her body. You literally gave her your time, and you gave her your money, but you wouldn't date her, you wouldn't wife her. What's this, does that make? That you gave her all the resources, you gave her all of the things that are like, freaking sacred to a man, I would think.