 So welcome to our meetup on decentralized community internet. I know this is to a few of us, but I want to introduce everybody to, or invite everybody to introduce themselves in the chat. Usually I like to do name a few sentences about what brings you here. What's exciting to you about this talk or as much as little as you'd like to say about that. I know it's a little awkward on a zoom call because you can't really do side channel conversations as easily, but it'd be really nice if we can have this be kind of a community building space rather than just a lecture type space. So feel free at any point to use the chat. We do have etiquette, pretty standard stuff. Zoom please mute yourself while others are speaking. Most of the time Esther is going to be speaking so that's pretty uncomplicated. Although I'll tell you this tip in case you haven't already found it, if you're muted and you hold down space bar you can temporarily unmute yourself walkie-talkie style. And that might be helpful if you have a clarification during Q&A section. We do have a code of conduct and it is here and it's pretty standard in terms of just treating each other well. If you see anything that you feel uncomfortable with, your hosts here are me, Cameron, and Jim and feel free to private message any of us if there's anything you want to flag or talk about. We will have a Q&A session after the presentation. If you write questions in the chat while the presentation is still going we'll actually collect them and then I'll be able to moderate them, try to make it flow a little bit better after the presentation's over. So feel free to put those in at any time. And there will be a couple of minutes at the end if anybody wants to take the floor we're calling this community minute and it would basically be hey I'm working on this or this is a project that I've heard about or an update, something that takes really about one minute to talk about. You're welcome to do it, it's experimental if nobody wants to, that's also fine. But you can flag that in the chat as well if you'd like to. And without further ado I'd like to introduce Esther Zhang. She is a fourth year PhD student in information and communication technologies for development at the Ellen School of Computer Science and Engineering at the University of Washington. She has worked on building community centered wireless and infrastructure in Mexico, Peru, and the Philippines. And her latest work is here in the Puget Sound where she's working on better digital access for Seattle and Tacoma's lower access neighborhoods. All right Esther, I'll get your slides up and you can take it away. Cool, thanks. Hi everyone, I'm Esther. I'm a PhD student at UW. I'm actually in my lab right now and I guess I wanted to introduce this project that I'm working on out of the lab but also the nonprofit that we started like for this project. It's the Seattle Community Cellular Network. So the talk is called Building Decentralized Community LTE Networks. Next slide. So the activities of our lab mostly center around internet access for rural and developing regions. And so kind of our academic home base is in international development. We've worked in small rural villages and we basically developed technology for you know low income kind of what what Google and Facebook would define as emerging markets. And so one of the things that my advisor Curtis Heimerl noticed during his fieldwork were that cellular networks were really kind of a very necessary and basic thing that wasn't present in a lot of these rural village contexts. So while there were already kind of mesh networking and other you know decentralized wireless technologies that you can deploy in these regions he was thinking okay maybe we should work on cellular networks. So this became a strategy for rural remote internet access and here you can see a couple of deployments our lab has been involved in. So on the left is a 2G network that we deployed in the Philippines in 2018. In the middle there's a 4G LTE network that we deployed in Indonesia in 2018. And on the right is another LTE network in Mexico in 2019. And all of these were super successful because really like in some of these lower income areas the primary mode of computing is through your mobile phone. And so people you know had smartphones and didn't necessarily have computers or other Wi-Fi devices. And so the the concept was to bring you know these cellular networks to the urban context that we have here. Next slide. So I guess to review some of the reasons that we would choose cellular networks over some of the current technologies for decentralized networks are that it's possible to get a super wide area coverage in comparison to some of these you know Wi-Fi networks. So you have like higher powered transmitters. These are usually pretty high powered radios that have you know can potentially have miles of coverage. You can see on the in the picture on the right it's a map view of part of the UW campus area and some of the surrounding area. And we were actually able to set up a cellular network that had line of sight to this play field marked by the X here. So that's a distance of 1.3 miles and we had a cellular receiver on the other side. And so using our LTE network this receiver which is called a CPE I'll explain that more later consumer premises equipment. It's basically a fixed wireless receiver for the network and it was able to get 60 megabits down and 8 megabits up from a original connection back at our LTE network of about 150 megabits per second. So it's basically it's pretty good at long distances. You also have per access point you can get a lot of users. So the ones that we use are 96 users and these base stations are designed to handle loads of users at a time and the network is also designed for for mobile phones. So you can get a pretty wide coverage area around each access point of about half a mile using a regular smartphone. But there are also other kind of interesting technological features of cellular networks including the SIM card based authentication where like let's say I'm an organization and I want to have a very strict privacy on my network then I can make sure that you know you can't authenticate to the network without my hardware token. So that's an interesting feature that could potentially be exploited and also it's it's really interesting to study cellular networks because you feel like you're looking into the mouth of the beast like you're you could potentially you know you know more about how like Comcast and AT&T actually probably AT&T, Verizon like those those kinds of carriers work and you're essentially like taking over their functionality you're like taking it back. So these are some of the reasons we like cellular networks for internet access. Next slide. This is just a fun picture of my co-worker Matt holding one of these CPE consumer premises equipment fixed wireless devices and then in the circle there that's actually where our LTE access point is mounted on the roof of this building that I'm in. So it illustrates that also it usually helps to have a second pair of hands involved in any given fieldwork or site visit which is one reason why this kind of networking is fun and it we need more people to help out. Next slide. So for this rural use case that I was talking about we really need these cellular networks to work disconnected from the rest of the internet because in some of these rural remote areas it's really hard to get that connection back like in LTE everything works over IP routing. You don't have like a circuit-based call mechanisms like in previous phone networks or telephony networks but even so you may have like a very slow or unstable connection back to you need to get your packets back to the internet basically and you may have a very slow or unstable connection over a satellite link or over a long-distance wireless hop so if your network becomes disconnected from the wider internet it still needs to work inside of the network like for local calls local you know functionality and in order to do that we really had to decentralize what's called the core network of the cellular stack. So the core network or in the case of LTE the the Evolved Packet Core the EPC keeps track of all the user identity and the authentication credentials it can coordinate between multiple base station radios so you can have two radios pointing in different directions attached to the same core network and basically routes all traffic and so if you can't do any routing without going you know to the internet to some remote cloud EPC then you can't function without that internet connection and so our lab used a built off of an open source LTE stack called Open 5GS which used to be called Next EPC and we like forked and maintained that but that's basically what we deploy which moves the the core network to the edge yeah so this this Open 5GS project is now currently moving towards 5G so it used to be called Next EPC for 4G but now it's sort of re-architected to run 5G but it can also still run 4G so we could run 5G networks as well it's just that for deployments it's better to use off-the-shelf hardware so we'll stick with 4G but future projects might look into also 5G yeah okay next slide so as I said the the principle is for moving the core network to the edge to allow for disconnected access and also this might give you you know other interesting characteristics to play with so in the urban case you know maybe you don't have flaky connectivity back to the internet but what if your organization has privacy needs and wants to keep all the encryption keys for the network on their premises and what if they wanted to put up the network themselves without even having to go through us or give us any trusted information etc etc so this decentralization may still be useful for the urban case so we have a number of projects research projects in the lab around decentralizing LTE so we wrote a paper called DLTE which is more of a concept paper about maybe you could remove authentication entirely from from LTE networks and then we also have a project called D-Auth where we allowed roaming between independent networks essentially distinct EPCs by setting up a federated blockchain between them and sharing one-time use authentication tokens so that users can seamlessly roam between different core networks and this is implemented and we also have an ongoing project called DX2 the X2 is is just the name for the interface between two of the radio base stations or E-node Bs the part in the green box and the DX2 project will hopefully enable handover just as if two of these base stations were in the same network you you can move a phone from one to the other seamlessly even though in our architecture they're on different core networks next slide okay so you know what does this look like in the physical world you can have block diagrams everywhere but you know what does it really mean so we have our deployed network which is it was on the roof I had to actually deconstruct and deploy it but we're going to set up another test network exactly like it so on on the right that's just a large omnidirectional antenna and our radio which is a radio that runs in the citizen band radio service CBRS frequency band of 3.5 to 3.7 gigahertz and I'll explain more about that later but it's it's a very small number of components so we've got our antenna our radio and our mini computer running Ubuntu 1804 which is what the Open5GS software currently runs on and this so in the red box here that's that's what our core network runs on and the the core network software can actually just also run in a Raspberry Pi 4 which was very exciting because it cuts down the cost of our computer a lot so then you know we've got our user access device which is just a smartphone there's actually a caveat where the smartphone also has to use the the you know CBRS frequency spectrum which means that we can only use kind of newer phone models but yeah and that's a limitation of based on our the frequency that we are running our networks on but but this is it this is like the whole network next slide so around last year we we heard that there was a new regulation by the FCC about the ability to run devices in this this frequency band the CBRS citizens band radio service band and normally you can't just run a cellular network like you need a frequency license which is why the telecoms pay billions of dollars to buy these and there's this new open access band where you you can sign up with something called a spectrum allocation service and it dynamically allocates you the spectrum for your particular device based on what else is transmitting and then they have different they have different tiers of access where the telecom can still buy priority access however if they're not actually running a device in a particular you know channel of the spectrum band then then you know general access devices can come in and request the spectrum and use it so we're using google spectrum allocation service and so we basically have to register our devices and like two you know very strict specifications like we have to register you know the device type which has to be approved by the FCC already the serial number all the antenna characteristics so that the spectrum allocation service can actually model everything that's going on and provide this map of what frequency is available and as you can see in this map on the on the side there's quite a bit of spectrum available in Seattle right now because the spectrum has just been auctioned off so in the future it's possible that telecoms might come in and start deploying equipment and then the amount of spectrum available for our devices will diminish and diminish but for the time being we're hoping that that this won't happen super quickly so we decided okay we'll try to start a Seattle community network and maybe like agitate so that once we already have the network maybe this is grounds that hey this is providing an important service for the public like maybe the telecoms you know like shouldn't be able to crowd us out super quickly but in any case we'll cross that bridge when we come to it we founded this nonprofit called the local connectivity lab and we were targeting the the lower income areas of Seattle so kind of south Seattle around the Othello and like Rainier Vista areas and we received a King County digital equity for vulnerable adults grant to do a couple of pilot deployments where we build essentially an open access network serving the public including some of these target populations that they want to serve for the the covid covid relief fund so housing unstable unemployed majority non-english speaking and seniors next slide so for our three first pilot sites this is the diagram of the network structure we're envisioning we want to partner with essentially digital equity organizations that already work with you know low income people and and are in these low income areas and we will set up cellular sites on their organizational buildings so that you can have like the initial the the base station site and then from there we can have our consumer premises equipment the fixed wireless equipment sort of creating an extension site so we have funding for three base stations and then 24 extension sites from there and each of those sites would receive the LTE service you know quite far away up to maybe a mile away as in our tests and and they could each also rebroadcast that as a wi-fi network so here I have the you know consumer premises equipment in blue around the the cellular base station based at the organization you have some coverage area for mobile coverage where you can use a phone and then also wi-fi coverage which is going to be smaller but still can be you know a block or two next slide and the idea is really to use this kind of as an excuse to build community especially between tech workers and and the broader public because you know like I feel that the the core importance of this kind of project is to build community like internet access you know by hook or by crook you can get it somewhere but this is really it's an infrastructure building project and like from owning infrastructure there's a lot of power and and understanding infrastructure so the you know the goal of internet access it's it's important for sure but it's also an opportunity to get you know techies and and users and experts and novices together and work to build something and learn about technology in a really meaningful way that serves the public so the vision for this takes inspiration from the nyc mesh project and other mesh projects where you know in nyc mesh you have uh i think now they've probably surpassed 5 000 users nodes and they have very thorough diy documentation um i actually worked with them a few uh or about a year ago now because i'm from new york city so i volunteered with them a lot when i was there just staying at home for a while and they have a really really active and engaged community of practice where you know you have a ton of tech people and a ton of people who are just like wow this seems cool who are you know learning and being onboarded and um you know neighbors are are truly able to support neighbors via you know in-person like help and also the slack group so you've also got neighborhood-based support channels and you've also got um you know essentially community governments they have a meet-up um they meet every month and they uh you know get funding uh through communal effort and they also have a suggested donation-based um funding model so that people who can't pay don't have to pay um so in my opinion building this community of practice is really going to be the task here um you know you can't just have one type of person involved in this kind of network um you know you really need a a large base of tech workers because otherwise you know one technical problem comes in and like the the network goes down forever but you know without like a large base of users it becomes kind of a circle jerk of of tech like it becomes pointless um and and you also need like active teaching and onboarding of novices which is a good opportunity for community outreach and tech education uh next slide so um you know there are many possible roles for community network contributors and they include but are not limited to climbing on roofs and actually doing the construction of the network which will hopefully happen uh one to do times the next few months as we uh install our our planned three base stations um helping install software configuring equipment um writing useful scripts and utilities so um this is coding and linux sysadmin stuff um so site search and surveying and network planning this is a surprising amount of work um it's like you know every time you um you have like a new possible partner you have to map them and and try to figure out if there's line of sight and uh walk around in the neighborhood and think about you know who could connect to who um yeah there's also helping with um community organization partnership so um you know emailing and calling and figuring out hey like do you want to be part of this do you have you know members who would be interested in participating and you know uh are you able to uh give us access to your roof space things like that there's also eventually going to be teaching of of technical skills and knowledge um especially for kids um you know gotta gotta bring in uh more kids to computing and uh and seniors who have a lot of trouble with particularly using the internet um there's also you know community technical support um which it's not necessarily yet but once we have a lot of users on board it will be and finally donating bandwidth um that is one of our huge pain points right now um we are working with the UW and the city of Seattle to get some donation of bandwidth from there um we're kind of stuck because of it it takes so many uh so many months to organize between all the institutions that are involved in in any kind of UW and city endeavor so um yeah we're basically hurting for bandwidth right now and we're also kind of hurting for roof space so those are the two um big asks that I've been making a lot to community organizations um and it it just requires a lot of uh a lot of work to get them on board so finally um grants and getting funding although we have some initial funding now um that won't you know get us past our first few pilots next slide so um our current partners are um the alt space maker space in central district um Rewa the refugee women's alliance the southeast Seattle tool library um the Filipino community of Seattle and in Tacoma the Tacoma corporate network and Althea so Althea is a mesh routing technology and um that essentially supports the Tacoma cooperative network um and uh that's part of our our efforts in Tacoma if anyone's interested in working there um I focus most of this talk on the work in Seattle but there's also you know an active effort in Tacoma we have our first deployment there which I talked about in the blog post um that was probably shared out earlier um yeah next slide uh and we're we're definitely recruiting more organizations so um if you know anybody who would be interested in such a project uh who are already interested in digital equity I have been getting some emails um and so we're actively recruiting uh next slide oh uh back one slide yeah so uh this is the actual last slide the other slides are backup slides um so this is my contact um lcl at Seattle community network.org is our um the the non-profit email address so please email that um with any you know questions or if you wanted to be if you want to be added to anything my personal email is infrared at cs um we have a slack group a google group's email list and this is the link to my blog post so thank you. Thanks Esther that was really cool um I'm super inspired um I didn't know about the new CBRS band I was wondering about that that's really cool um I haven't yet looked at the questions I was wondering um Jim or Cameron would you maybe want to do moderation of questions? Yes I can I can help with that so um personally I actually have a question for Esther um so this might be explained by some of your later content but I was wondering when you talk about the urban use case for this community network uh if it's driven by things like LTE like in the 4G band would that run interference with others say big telecom uh frequencies? Right um so for now no because um as I mentioned we're using the CBRS 3.5 gigahertz spectrum which currently the telecoms don't seem to be using um so there were licenses I I think um like priority access licenses for CBRS that were sold earlier this year but so far um there haven't been really deployments as you can see from the map on I think slide eight um the uh the the spectrum is basically open right now because it doesn't have high adoption um you can run all sorts of protocols in this band and LTE is only one of them so you know maybe they'll want to run 5G protocols in this spectrum band eventually but for now um for now it's wide open for us yeah we'll see how that changes later um I'm I'm a little bit a little bit pessimistic that maybe they will try to you know encroach upon the space um within the next five years but um it depends on maybe where like in the most dense urban environments there will be um you know other carriers there but in like the low income or sparse or less profitable areas maybe there won't be and that's our target thank you I have a couple questions um just yeah just curious how much does it cost to set up and maintain one of these cellular base stations um so since we're using kind of off-the-shelf base stations um these are you know they're like commercial outdoor equipment the ratings on these like tend to go for you know 25 years expected lifetime like they're hardy devices um the computers that were the mini computers not so much um but those are cheap and the base station is probably our highest cost item it's it's probably around three it's around 3k um so that's and then you've got the antenna cost we shouldn't go for a few hundred dollars so our total install cost for everything is usually around 4k um for a cellular site that can serve you know 96 simultaneous users this is not bad um and like you also get of course the increased range and everything um but it is more costly than like a wi-fi mesh node um so it's really about the kind of engineering trade-offs that you want to make and I think uh for us we were going for okay well like um you know this cbrs band is is interesting and um you know we can cover large swaths of the city so um we're gonna try this out and see how it works for community networking and what's your maximum broadcast power you're allowed to use for the cbrs is a standard to like does similar like handheld cb um so this is a uh we're using one watt base stations this is pretty much um like on the upper end of what you can use because for cbrs the um for this like general access license you um have pretty strict like bounds so the um I think it's total you you have to like including the um the radio plus the antenna you're using it has to be under 47 dbm per like 20 megahertz which I mean it's basically like 47 dbm um yeah and uh so the like the one watt like 30 30 dbm transmitter is is basically the one of the higher powered ones you can use and you mentioned that um bandwidth limitation was an issue um what uh what are the bandwidth requirements you said I guess 96 zers per tower so what what are your bandwidth requirements for one of these uh cellular base stations well so um each user actually has uh a at least with this space station it has a max rate of uh like 112 um megabits per second so um you know it would be nice to have a gigabit basically feeding our our base station um or you know however yeah just like a large pipe it would be nice but of course you can share um a connection with like a lower rate per user so like I would imagine it would perform okay with maybe uh three to five hundred megabits and even 100 megabits like so for context in the um in the rural remote sites that like in Indonesia they're running off of three megabits and they're sharing that amongst their entire network um and that's okay it's not like super but it's okay yeah um and just curious what are your thoughts on the starlink network and I think those are getting like 80 down in rural Washington um any thoughts on the starlink network and possibly sharing that with these cellular base stations yeah I think um I mean that that is the hope because um once you can get starlink everywhere then you know you can get that in the rural areas and it's going to be more affordable however um I I mean a lot of us in the lab like we kind of doubt that starlink will provide coverage everywhere like um yeah most of these projects uh they're like oh yeah we're going to provide coverage everywhere and then they end up covering like a small section like above you know one country um so it like remains to be seen where starlink will be available and that's really kind of like in all of these um you know equity type situations where you've got okay these people are unconnected they're usually unconnected for a reason it's because it's not profitable so yeah that's like a high level I mean I think that it's like satellite uh internet being like much cheaper and much more widely available will be excellent in the future all right one more question and I'll stop by I was just curious if you're familiar with the helium network and you mentioned that um you had two of these networks that were separate uh connection I think believe you call it roaming the connection they had um any thoughts on the helium network and potentially you're creating like a decentralized cellular community service I actually haven't heard of this I just looked it up um it looks like it is a blockchain network there are you know a number of blockchain wireless networks but um yeah do you want to just explain real quick like what's what's special about it um so I think uh I kind of briefly looked into that I was looking at hosting my own node but um basically you uh provide bandwidth uh um it's it's must I think it's a different frequency than this it's pretty low bandwidth connection for uh internet of things devices like you can imagine those uh those little batter powered scooters on the street like they would use a network like this to communicate rather than cell tower but basically you might you mine on the network by providing bandwidth interesting cool um our our partner in Tacoma Alfea is actually also running a um a blockchain based Wi-Fi mesh where um like the the routers pay each other for their mesh traffic um but yeah it's it's definitely more on the home router scale not like it looks like they're using uh one of those low power yeah iot protocols yeah low low raw WAN um yeah so they're they're all kind of different use cases and um yeah this like the cellular side is is just totally different like a totally different you know architecture and hardware and and frequency and everything um so but I think there can be a really interesting like ecosystem of all these types of networks like our project um in Tacoma is going to combine our network with the Alfea network um so we'll have you know the Alfea network providing kind of a billing solution so that um you can set up LTE links like someone can have an LTE base station on their house um but they can also use the Alfea like paying each other structure to pass traffic and like have a LTE in the mesh yeah um okay so there yeah oh sorry not to do we had a question in the chat from a Mitchell Harper asking about where you're sourcing you know these base stations from um we're using the bisels ones um we have a pretty good relationship with bisels because um they have a good relationship with the internet society and the internet society supports us a lot um so yeah the internet society is a nonprofit like global nonprofit that basically supports you know internet access throughout the world and um so we we kind of have uh like contact and sort of lower prices from bisels and like pretty good support from them but um it's also that they are kind of the cheapest option on the market so once there are you know other you know B options we would definitely look into them uh bisels is a Chinese company um and I see another question uh from from me um which is I'm really curious about so you mentioned that the the citizen ban radio or the the citizen cv something cvrs yeah um the citizen ban just opened up um and I'm really curious about the politics around that I'm wondering like I don't know this isn't this isn't a clear or good question so feel free to pick whichever part of this you'd like to answer but I'm curious if you know why it opened up like what the motives were around it and then um if the telecoms are allowed to reserve space just like other folks um if there's anything that would sort of disincentivize them from doing it or if that's just something that might happen like that's that's very interesting and then there's also like the question around um if you're going to start to make an argument that the citizen band is important to protect it seems really important to have public metrics around who's using it and for what purposes but I'm I'm curious if any of that information is publicly measurable or publicly accessible yeah it's it's really interesting so um my understanding is that people have been uh agitating for like yeah uh essentially advocates for this kind of um you know management of spectrum have been agitating for a long time for a dynamically managed spectrum because um the the fact that telecoms are able to have national licenses that cover all these areas that they don't actually provide coverage in is crazy and it's like uh you know it makes the government a lot of money which is why it's been so hard to not do that um but yeah people have been agitating like technologists have been agitating for a dynamic spectrum allocation for a long time um and I'm not sure what actually like galvanized this to you know happen but um the idea is definitely to allow you know more innovation like um and also private LTE networks and um yeah more innovation to allow products to develop in this space um and so yeah it actually has provided a lot of opportunities already for you know this this open source project to become you know a real network in in this case um and like it would be great if spectrum could be you know used as as a natural resource instead of just like sold off in large swaths um so I mean I think that it's a uh it's a result of of a long time of like lobbying essentially of like yeah of advocating um and I think uh ultimately like the the telecoms will probably move in and like deploy other networks in this spectrum but I guess the idea is like if they don't end up using spectrum in a particular area like why not allow open access licenses to um to be given out yeah and I think it is a better solution in terms of of equity like um you know there will be there will always remain areas that are uncovered does that answer your question because I feel like your question was very complicated yeah I mean it does and it is a long question um the only other thing is just sort of getting metrics around the use of it like if I were trying to build an argument that says hey we made we advocated for this and now we're using it and it's amazing and it's enabling all these things like I'd need to actually know that but it seems very likely to be a lot of distributed open source projects that are by themselves already plenty of work to run so I'm worried that that kind of data is just kind of gonna kind of like flip through the cracks and and not not be where it needs to be to be a political argument yeah yeah I think uh this this project could be part of such an argument like if we do end up you know covering um some amount of area of the city we can say hey look we're providing the service like this is actually doing good for the public um yeah it's it's true it is already open to the telecoms like it was um auctioned off just a few months ago I think so um there there's like a tiered access structure like if you have a priority license which you've bought then um you can like you can transmit uh using your device and it all has to be entered into the same like um spectrum database but if my device is on there and it's like a lower tier like general access device then it gets kicked off and it gets hopefully assigned a new channel um but you know the other the the priority devices get priority yeah that's really interesting um hey I realized that uh us as hosts we've been asking a lot of questions um I want to make sure we reserve a little bit of space to make sure that other folks have a chance um if if anyone has a question and they just like to ask it verbally feel free to unmute yourself and ask uh I'll go ahead so you mentioned that right now there's dynamic allocation and I'm curious what the frequency is for turnaround on when uh a license might be um prioritized is that are we talking like on the order of milliseconds on the order of like days just kind of curious uh minutes it's a few minutes yeah I think it's supposed to be four minutes I'm not sure exactly that's what's implemented but yeah um yeah often did those auctions happen um probably once every 10 years for yeah the situation is dire like the longer the the you know the license can be sold for the more money it can go for so yeah for anyone that's interested in those options there's actually great um on NPR I believe was Planet Money or Radio Lab had a really interesting episode the last month or so um on how those auctions work and kind of the history behind them um do you want to like post do you have that link can you post it in the chat I will find it and post it are there any further questions so I really appreciated that that was a fascinating talk and I I'm so glad I had this um this made up to invite you to and have an excuse to have you give that talk where I could listen to it um uh I hope everybody else enjoyed um we will make this available on our youtube channel and we'll link that from the meetup event when that goes out we also um have our next meetup already scheduled although not yet fully announced because we don't have all the details yet but um as some of you likely know um Filecoin had a big launch this fall and their product lead Pooja has agreed to come speak to us on December 17th so uh there's a little stub of an up on meetup and then I'll fill it out with details and properly announce it um later on um any further closing comments from you Jim or Cameron I guess this will be as good as time as any to open up the community minutes to the everybody in the attendance if you have something personal project uh interesting thing that you found that's related to decentralized web uh feel free to proc away I guess I'll go um so uh I again my name is Mitchell Harper um grad school or not grad school but a graduate of the Allen school uh right when it was changed its name to the Allen school and uh I currently do work with a group that's sort of trying to do some organizing around municipal broadband on every front possible um at the city level at the county level um working on um potentially trying to change regulations uh at the state level that might allow for more options for uh publicly owned broadband um and there's an ongoing working group and uh I can probably provide details uh in the slack or here if anyone would like any but um it's we're working on a lot of different fronts um with a lot of different community groups also some engaged in uh you know internet equity right now and getting connected with them um and to try and you know uh you know see what is possible because you know the pandemic has made it really clear that I think it sort of was a wake-up call for a lot of us how you know start with disparities were and uh you know now is sort of the time to sort of capitalize on the on on that need um so uh uh the the name of the working group is uh share the cities um it's there's a you know a twitter there's a lot of organizing that happens under share the cities in seattle um but uh the twitter handle is share the cities and uh I can also give you my personal email address um if you'd like to get connected with that working group any questions on that I'll put my email in the chat thanks michael that's great to hear all right thanks everybody we're coming up to the close of the hour and I'll leave this room open until seven just in case anyone wants to go find links from the chat um I'll put a link in our meetup event to ask your slides so that you all can see and check through there were some links in them and then um there's also if you scroll up I did paste the how to join their slack and everything so um thanks very much for coming I really appreciated the talk and all of your engagement thanks so much for having me