 Welcome to another show of Celebrate Life. My name is Gary DeCarlas and I am your host. The inspiration for this series is to show the amazing lives that people live. Key word here is live. I hope to capture through interviewing many wonderful Vermonters and even a few people outside Vermont, some stories of their lives and experiences for our audience while they are still very much alive. Over the years I have read too many obituaries that left me pondering why did I not have a chance to meet this wonderful person while they were alive. The goal of this program is to celebrate the lives of everyday Vermonters while they are still very much with us. Some people will be recognized by many viewers and lots of people I plan to interview will be known only by a few close, intimate friends and family. I will guarantee you that all the people who are interviewed will have fascinating stories to share with you. See I'm of the notion that everyone has a story to tell. If you would like to be interviewed or know someone that you think would thank for a great interview please contact me at Celebrate Life 0747 at gmail.com. Also if you have a question for the interviewee after the show and would like to send me a little email that I can get to the interviewee please do again it's at Celebrate Life 0747 at gmail.com. Leave your name and phone number or email address and I'll get back in touch with you and we'll go from there. Well today I am very honored to have as our guest Joan Lennis. Welcome Joan. Thank you and you have led an amazing life Joan of public service and let me just tick off a few of these things for the audience so that they can appreciate all the things that you've done. You're a Vermont legislator for 12 years. You're the chair of your local PTO school board member. This is Shelburne Vermont founder of the Robbins Nest Children's Center board chair of Emerge Vermont and I want to talk more about that later. That's an incredibly important piece to Vermont. Also board chair of age well and one time an owner of Climb High is that correct? That is amazing. Now and it's also led to you having a number of awards the Community Service Award at Shelburne Community School, the Champlain Housing Trust Hilton Wick given to the Hertz Award and the Vermont Democratic Party Hertz Hoff Award. Just amazing and I want to thank you for all of your community service over the years. So I want to go back if you will to Joan as a young girl and what were some of the foundational pieces of your early life that led you to be the amazing woman that you are today? Well Gary when you invited me on this I thought a lot about it and I as I said earlier to you before we started you know got nervous like what is this all about or who am I and and it's really quite an honor because I think all of us need that time to reflect and see who we are and what impact we've made. I don't think about the impact I don't think about the connections but for me relationships are really everything and I was born in Connecticut in New Britain Connecticut. My ancestry is as I'm a Syrian so Persian my father immigrated my mother's parents immigrated they met it wasn't quite a matched marriage but but it kind of was and they were married in 1939 and lived in Connecticut my father passed away when I was two so in 1953 and my mother was a 36 year old woman with four children and my grandmother his mother lived with us so those are the beginnings I remember and hearing a lot about my father from people who loved him and admired him and we were a family of the four kids my mother grandmother till I was eight or nine and she remarried and and life changed my grandmother passed away and we moved to Florida and Florida was very different for me I knew I didn't fit that well in the south there were experiences with me getting spoken with at school because I said yes please or no thank you and I didn't use ma'am so I didn't understand that but you really needed to say yes ma'am and no sir and and so I wondered if I fit and I wasn't sure and I knew well for those who don't know I'm 411 at my highest I in shrinking and there was a water there were two water fountains in the grocery store one was shorter one was taller and I drank from the shorter one it was third or fourth grade and the store manager really he grabbed me and said where's your mother so I was reprimanded for drinking out of the one that I didn't see the sign that said colored oh and I said ma right you know so it was yeah that that not quite fitting trying to figure out life my we were we were close family we didn't accept my stepfather right away but certainly now in our life we're very close my mother passed away like 20 years ago so and he's still you know in in our lives and very close so so I think that the solid base of the Assyrian community in Connecticut and then uprooting and going to Florida was a was an adjustment that that I didn't quite realize I've got dear friends in Florida that were you know still in touch with kids I grow up with but but it was different and trying to fit in yeah how did so given that going from a kind of a wonderfully supportive environment in Connecticut to environment that you just wasn't sure if this worked for you where did you find solace what did you do to to you know think life better for yourself I mean how did how did you navigate that I think I tried to make friends with people that I could talk with that I connected with there were a group of five of us girls that would spend the night in each other's homes and and kind of looked for things it wasn't like I wasn't happy or fitting in but it was it was a huge adjustment and and looking for friendships and and I like to do things our neighbors were were a funny couple from Kentucky they had moved they had a son who was my brother's age and I just kind of went over there and I'd make myself at home I they you would tease me because I'd look through their mail and whatever and I thought that was kind of normal I just I just kind of didn't bulldoze but just was comfortable and sure and the the joke was they'd say what would you have for supper and I'd say oh steak it didn't matter what we had I called it steak and they were having you know corned beef hash they had come from Kentucky taking every penny that they could to get down to Florida so I just I just kind of yeah you know got myself in different in different situations I liked babysitting I I did that a lot and and the one of the things I don't know if this goes into a question for you but I I like to do things more than sit and you know I wasn't the student in the classroom but in President Kennedy's era he did the athletic the health uh the fitness the fitness program yes yes yes and and our our phys ed coach asked me to help him so the students would do you know 10 sit-ups or whatever and I had the clipboard and I would would write down Gary DeCarlo's 10 or you know whatever and so the next week we'd say Gary you did 10 let's do 12 and and I didn't even know what that meant but it was it was me getting involved I I don't know if my teacher wanted me I'm in the classroom we won't go down that road please so but but I I I like to do things that were active as opposed to passive right which is very much you today yeah absolutely yeah as a little girl did you have people that you look up to you know I mean sounds like your mom was very special in your life no question about that yes yes and then but outside you know people that you look to for how they lived their lives or things that you imagine yourself someday being like I think my brother was someone who that so there are three girls and and one boy and I used to think a top being a tomboy was fun and cool and so I learned how to change oil on his cars wash the car do things like that and I liked his way he he could be loud but not I mean I knew the the sensitive part of him and I think we were we were kindred spirits in in that way um there in Florida there was a teacher that I I liked how she maneuvered like I almost was watching how people were with others and this teacher was sensitive to others who couldn't learn in the same way um so so that and then college I went to the University of Florida and there was a sociology professor that had a stew community work and it was the first time I understood what experiential learning was or being involved and you know I can't remember his name but but I I have thought of him often that him pushing us to do that and I I think I've have felt better about myself in those situations than I did in a classroom with a test um I think uh that that's a bit of who I am so when things have to be um done I I like doing that you know people say oh you're always involved but it's it's it's not a selfish thing but it's really because I enjoy it I'd rather and and when you know what's going on it you have a chance to play a role rather than waiting for the news yes absolutely yeah you engage in life I guess so my mother used to tease me that the phone would ring I'd get a shower and be ready to go but I didn't know who called her where I was going but I think that was her for not so so welcoming way of telling me but yeah I I do I do like that I didn't think of it as engaging in life but it is yeah yeah anything about your mom that you want to share oh you know she was we always said you wanted to be her friend and not somebody who she didn't want to be around but but she had a way of connecting and I think that connection is what what I know is the most important thing in life I mean Gary yours and my relationship how we met years ago with your your former ed position at turning point and then the the connections she our home was welcoming that group of five of us even if I was not home any of them would go over and talk to ma and and so I think I think that I didn't realize how important her way was to keep us all together and we tease our stepfather now saying we weren't very nice and I said why did you stay he said you know I loved your mother and I knew how important you kids were to her so I took I took a back seat to to that so yeah that's wonderful yeah yeah when you were a young girl did you have thoughts about what you wanted to do when you grew up I figured I would be in human serve in human resources and personnel there was Jordan Marsh in Florida and I liked being with people I didn't I figured business that's what what I might do but working with people you know the kind of I always knew healthcare was important that that or benefits you know time off things like that were important so so I thought I'd go that way and I think Jordan Marsh had a program for business that they may have done collaboratively with a junior college and actually my first year of college I stayed home and went to the junior college and and it wasn't it wasn't right it wasn't good I didn't want to live at home and other friends had gone on to the university as freshmen so I transferred to Gainesville to the University of Florida and and I knew the people things but business wasn't making sense and I don't remember I think an advisor was talking to me about a major in sociology um was something and I thought Margaret Mead was you know she she explained things well and I loved the past and then how it played into the the present and the future so and and I remember I didn't need a lot of statistics and things like that for a sociology degree as opposed to I looked at education and things so so um again the classroom was not where I loved to be or thrive but I did understand the connection between theoretical and practical and that that has helped you know there is all the stuff we talk about research based and all that it's it's important to know it's important to have that balance of yes you can do it hands-on but there are things you don't need to recreate and let's do things that are proven that you know whether it's scientific from our our past 18 months with COVID or or you know the theoretical that makes sense in in in addiction in corrections um so so I liked understanding that balance between theory and practice must have helped you as a legislator yes yes yeah and you know I I remember applying to graduate school it didn't I had moved up here in in um 73 after college my sister had married a burlingtonian and and so I would come every summer and loved Vermont Vermont fit um so after college in Florida I came back up here and and it made a difference and I was working I worked retail and then I worked at the University of Vermont in the Center for Service Learning back then and they placed interns so I would develop placements for students help students with that and then um the the um seminars that we put together for for credit for them as well but bringing together theoretical and practical so how they functioned in their internships and how they brought that back to um you know their their degree um endeavors and I took the GREs one morning one Saturday morning and it was it was not easy for me and I then I I came home I went for a run I think there were probably tears in there thinking I'll never get into graduate school and and it hit me that I needed to do the running and the the stuff I couldn't really do the testing but I knew what it was about so I think for me that that run in that day was wait a minute there is a place for me there is and um I did get into graduate school I worked at the same time and and was very very appreciative of the university's um tuition remission for employees and and they still carry that forward and and such a valuable program um and what did you get your what did you get your degree in graduate it was a it it masters of education um and interdisciplinary so um um um counseling and um coordination of things oh my god that's my degree um it's not administration but a lot of that so you can run programs um uh yep did you find that master's degree opened up a whole new uh world in terms of employment for you well I loved the center for service learning and that helping students put all the together and and I I would say it might be the most important thing if you learn you don't want to do something um you know the Howard center way back then had the ease program and and we would play students to work with with um some of the clients at Howard and I knew um that was so important and at the same time that my husband he had climb high and I would work weekends or evenings after UBM you know with him there and then we married in 80 and started a family in 82 and um Keith Meiser was dean of students at the university and I was I took a year off to have my daughter Sarah and um Keith Meiser called me and said all right we're looking at restructuring I want to know what you're doing when you you know come back in a year you know a year was almost up I said oh and I I loved being home I I had the luxury of that I could go to climb high and work when I wanted but I could be with Sarah and um so I said well Keith you you designed the program and it might not have my position in it and then I don't have to come back I don't have to make that decision so you know I was home but but um Sarah was nine months old when when a dear friend and colleague son was killed in a car accident and I um I was with her a lot and then I needed care for Sarah so the Lund home then had a drop-in center for child care and you didn't have to have a full or part-time slot and I knew of that and got her enrolled in that as a nine month old so I could be with my friend and about a year or so later the the Lund home then the now the Lund Center didn't um again child care wasn't a financially feasible thing and they didn't want to go that route so they told us we had to get out and or they were closing it but there were a few of us and our director that said no we want to stay together and we we scoured chicken and county and found space at st. joseph school um enrollment wasn't really declining quite then for for the catholic school but there was a room we could rent and so we did that and that was fulfilling and yet I had the schedule of flexibility so I was the founding mother there with others not on my own but but certainly there were like three or four of us and Luanne Beninotti the um woman who had been the director at the Lund was we all came together and so board work started really at at robin's nest um September 11th of 85 we opened the doors wow so you saw a gap in a need in the community and a gap and um personally as well as for other families and they're in robin's nest yeah yeah still thriving still thriving still amazing program and um and we Luanne and I are still friends and we'll say my god we had no clue what we were doing but it was the right thing and I think I think maybe that's what I've done along my path is just do whatever and hopefully it's it's right with the right intention scary I think yes things things work it's not like there's no bumps or no wrong turns but but hopefully that that persistence is is a good thing yes and the willingness to step into the void you know one of the key pieces of leadership is that leader needing to take that risk because it could fail so I mean there's no guarantees when you do that yeah and you were able to step into that void and you and friends make that work it's great yeah that's great yeah and I think that's what set me off on the path then when the kids were in public school you know PTO was was an important piece then this is the early 80s and did that and then um I I think of it as as a ripple effect in in the body of water and you know robin's nest was small PTO next then folks said why don't you run for school board and I said well that's an elected thing I'm not going on any ballot I'm not that well you know back then school board members you didn't need to to compete at all so I ran for Shelburne and um and actually wasn't on Shelburne's board very long a gentleman who really was in opposition to the math program um ran a campaign and said I was so connected to the math and the way the principal wanted to go and it was horrible and I lost a reelection by 11 votes oh my god but but yeah oh it was devastating but then we needed fundraising for the um Shelburne community school playground the Snelling Park and and I did that so so one thing you know yeah you rolls into another you can't I try not to be devastated or take things so personally you know so I lost but then then a position opened up on CBU on Champlain Valley Union High School board so and I love policy it it's important where did you get that that you love policy where did that come from not everyone does I know well I think it's that seat at the table that I like so design there you go you know if if you believe in um all right we'll go to your world if you believe um addiction is a disease then you design policy policy to solve it if you believe it's a horrible thing and people are bad and stupid because they're addicts then you you design policy like that so it's putting your your thoughts out there to make things how you want them to be how you might dream but but even more reality than a dream what what you want to offer you know experiential learning again a piece of who I am so you offer it in high school that that students can learn outside of a of a classroom and and benefit from that so so I think I think some of that I understood what policy design and and you get to work finance now I'm not a financial whiz but but I know when you put dollars into areas you put attention there and and that I think is important to understand and and design that way yeah well okay thank you yeah yeah um so tell me about if we can we'll switch a little bit tell me about your family and you've been married for a quite a long time you have a wonderful family um yes what's family mean to you uh you know family is um it's the core it's where you learn your your values and hopefully your support system and you know my we do um uh the um when we go to school for reviews or whatever and then Shelburne the kids participated as well and and so the three of us and then the teacher and um they would be talking and and uh about how amazing the kids are or or each individual and and um my husband especially would say oh at home they they challenge us a bit or whatever and he's from Austria and and the Germanic you know behavior of of being more strict is what he knew as a student and growing up in Austria and um and they I would say you know let them lose it at home let them challenge us or come back at us not that it was easy but but you know know how to be with people um and I think those are the things um I remember if either my husband or I were were you know mad at one of the kids the other one who might not agree with them in most of the situations but would defend their sibling and the other you know our daughter is older and then our son and um interesting to watch that happen but I can I can yell at you but don't somebody else I'm going to defend you that's right and um you know my my siblings my brother has passed away almost 20 years now and and so my sister's you know it's important and and I'm close with with my sister's children too so um family is is all that the the bad the good and what you know about each other what you can tease about but what you what you support um I think family to me is bigger than my household and I'm lucky both of our kids live locally now so that's that's amazing yeah I got to spend a couple hours with you and your sister your husband and your your um yeah brother in law and it was a wonderful I could see the love all over the place yeah yeah that was fun I told Jenny you and I were were talking today she's oh my god I I still have another tour all right yes you're you're your historical knowledge of the Burlington area I I love that was that was me oh thanks yeah um yeah go on yeah go ahead no go ahead well I'm I wanted I want the audience to know more about emerge from I think what you're doing there is phenomenal and so important if you would spend some time talking about that how you got involved what it means to you and what it means to Vermont okay yeah thank you um that and and a bit of the legislative things that I did earlier too we can touch on briefly um emerge um Madeline Cunin was speaking in California at an emerge event California was the first emerged state and she came back here and said well my goodness what do you think about it being in Vermont and um she was teaching at UVM so there were some students she was connected with and and Jill Kroinski our current speaker of the house was in that small group of women and they said let's do it so they got the charter whatever they needed to do with emerge America um and brought that here and I knew that I had benefited by some of the democratic training to run for office and also back then um secretary of state that markowitz brought Emily's list to Vermont and it was a one-shot training but Emily's list is early money is like yeast so the more you have the the bigger your capabilities are whether financial or or uh whatever capacity so I knew training was important and camaraderie in that training and um there was an announcement that Madeline was going to um launch emerge Vermont and I went to that and then just just they connected from from a distance and um in my last session so 2016 um the then ed asked if I would like to be on the advisory committee of emerge and I said yeah that that could work and then I decided to not seek reelection so I had more time and got on the board of emerge Vermont and then um not too long after that once again I was asked if I could share it and you know that that and oh word is well it's not that I don't use it it's like oh this is too good to pass up this is really neat so so um started sharing it then and um it it our our logo our motto is we we recruit train and support democratic women to run for office because the when you have a seat at the table it it matters and I just bought a card it said if you don't have a seat at the table grab a folding chair so I just maybe maybe some of the silliness of being nosy you know I want to know what's going on I'm the last of four kids I I want to be there um and so you you figure out where your where your place is or what you can add and you started it I I have heard you before but everybody has a story and every story is valuable it's not it's not oh you've done nothing you don't know what people have done you don't know the background um or what makes somebody do something um sometimes I say it's amazing people are as successful as they are with the backgrounds they have or with the tragedies or the traumas or or whatever so I I think the stories are fun and important and and bringing women together and and sharing that or and you know the most accomplished women say oh my god I can't run for office you know I need this or that and and and and men are I don't know if internally they have the confidence but we see it that externally oh yeah well wait I don't need to run for select board I can run for governor I mean it and that's kind of a joke but it's not so just just showing people what their story is and what value they have coming to the table but but my my thing is don't have an agenda don't come with anything but let's see what we can improve I mean we all have agendas with who we are in our experiences but but um you know that is a setup for for not much success in my mind mm-hmm mm-hmm I think what you're doing is so important because like you said there are many women that if you look at them and know who they are you say my goodness they could be tremendous leaders yeah government and yet they don't see that themselves they have a different mirror but by having an organization like this and women coming together in this way supporting each other just them the courage and and the hoodspot a little bit of getting out there and doing it yeah yeah and you know I I have a friend a republican friend and she said well why can't I do it and I said you know there's something about setting agendas and being in the majority and and there are other things you can do for training but but I want in in my mind a democratic open minded caring agenda setter and and you've got to be in the majority to do that and and you still need to listen I'm not saying it's the only right way is the democratic with the capital D way but but I like the agenda setting and the the for me the belief system and the values is just just it fits for who I am I'm not judging others I am saying this fits for who I am and and why I want more democratic women and and women juggle things and we understand you know if you say oh child cares of women's issue it isn't it's an economic issue you can't get staff working if there's no support and and and help you know I said earlier my grandmother lived with us when my mother had to go to work after my father died my grandmother was there that was my child's care that's right and we don't have multi generations in a household anymore the way we did that's right yeah that's a good point yeah um and and I always joke with some of the training at at emerge because they are a little intimidated and scared and whatever and I say alright use me as the example it took me three runs to win my legislative seat and it's like uh why do I keep mentioning that but but you know the first time I ran I lost by by only a hundred votes in a very secure incumbent district and then I thought oh um I I could never run again and and gay simington was recruiting people we wanted to um the the equal marriage um civil unions had passed and the democrats lost the majority in the vermont legislature and um so I was one of the recruits that they had known about or whatever and um so I lost and I said well that's I never run again that's horrible and um she said no no and then the incumbent decided um uh to not run the second the second round so this would have been oh four so I thought okay I'm putting my name in you know and gay kept saying you can do it and so I did and then he changed his mind at the last minute and put his petition in and and I lost I lost by 50 votes and I was oh embarrassed devastated and then he stepped down and the governor got to a point in his placement replacement and I I was livid for two years I was so mad and I I ran a third time a great campaign one by a couple hundred votes and um and so I'm a good example to emerge um yes you know it it's not always uh easy but but I knew I knew that wasn't right to have done that the way the way it happened so um so you have had you know uh we'll call I don't know failure is the wrong word but tough times in your life when things didn't work out the way you would hope but what did you call on within yourself to get through those times uh I just said this to somebody yesterday and I hadn't thought about it in a long long time um and I don't dwell on the past but you know my my father passing away and moving to Florida and those changes I made him my guardian angel on my shoulder so um if girls were mean to me I would say daddy make them trip or I kind of whatever a little thing so I think I I think I didn't feel alone Gary I think I created him I don't know I was only two I you know I I know the stories of him so I think not feeling alone um made made a difference um certainly reaching out to friends and people um I wouldn't say you know I was like devastated or whatever when when growing up but I think I I made things work however they they could and and that was a way that's a wonderful yeah I I I don't know I haven't I mean I guess I just set it out in real public now but but it's funny how how that was and and um always talking I mean I talked to myself I talked to whoever so so I think that fit with with who who I am and and uh yeah none of us need to be alone I mean alone time is good but but you know when we crossed on the bike path of just hello and the connections that that's just too important yeah yeah when we um we uh talking a couple weeks ago you mentioned that in your legislative days you spend 12 years in the legislature that's six terms that's a lot of time five terms five yeah okay yeah yeah a decade a decade okay and you talked about the one of the roles you played in that role was to connect people and ideas to to move to solution you're all about let's get this solved somehow you talk a little bit more about that ideas again at the table or wherever ideas are shared and rather than saying well that's stupid or I might mumble that under my own breath or in my head but you know okay I hadn't thought of that idea or or you have had this experience and you bring that so trying to figure out um there's a saying we always use don't get don't let excellence get in the way of good inch inch your way forward you know I was not in the legislature for civil unions and I was for equal marriage that was 10 years of inching our way and then now it's like what what that wasn't acceptable you know it just so so I think the solutions are are important um the the path is is what's important to focus on and and I say sometimes it's not what happens or what gets said it's how when you have a a a person who's a a a collaborator you can get more done I mean my way my way might be right but I better listen to you or we're not going to get anywhere and and and certainly every one of us I hope has an ego but it doesn't have my my ego is in the process the the the building of robin's nest I had a big part but it was us the the building of of anything is is teamwork you know the turning point centered dinners watching everybody come together from different avenues was it was you know inspiring um so I think you have to learn from others um and and listen to why they're saying that or you know somebody comes in so angry it's like what is that all about well I don't know what happened an hour ago or a year ago in that person's life right so try and find out and and I mean that it's it's not um I I do try it I I don't always but but I I try to understand why and the the the newer stuff in education is not to ask a child um why'd you do that but what's going on um you know there is example after example of that um the transition situation rather than the words you're hearing yep yep yep is there anything from your syrian culture that has informed you to be the person you are today well I think there was pride in in the persian culture my and and I'm a syrian so so from from um iran that's where where they came from and I think I think um my father's father was a man who wasn't educated but could speak seven languages and could write many of those so he was a go between you know in the in the early 1900s when he came he could sign people's um work permits so if you were still in in iran you had a document that said there was a job waiting for you so you could get a immigration paper and I'm not sure there was always jobs but there was a network and I think the pride the pride of that um is is something um that that we felt um involvement and and maybe um you know caring for others mm-hmm so we had a beach house down in old sabre connecticut for you know I was probably only seven or eight when we didn't have it anymore but it was such a part of what I loved and saturdays and sundays the beach house was mobbed with all the assyrians coming and we had shiskabab and you know so food and family and all that yeah it's important it must have been wonderful yeah i'm gonna tell you that it was too much my mother said it was I liked it I didn't know that's right yeah that's great thank you so um if you had a magic wand dome what when you think about the future what anything you want to accomplish or do that is out there for you I think the environment is something we have to pay so much attention to you know a more people person but the people won't have a world if we do this um destruction so I think that's important I think paths are paved and being open to what what is next or what comes um what I could help with or learn from um those things I I never thought oh I want to be a legislator oh I want to do this it was more as it as it offered itself I mean I think the biggest thing was policy I knew I liked that because again making decisions that put things in place and in direction that that are helpful but but um yeah get through this pandemic right yeah well I think it seems like doors are opening finally a little bit I'm hoping we can continue getting people vaccinated but it's it's a relief to go outside and not have masks on all the time I know what I know yeah so I try to say what have we learned from this what what important things and you know some of the the um uh virtual meetings or this opportunity um you know it still works it might be different if we were in person but it still works and I think we've got to look at the the the pluses of these things that's right I mean when you think about it in terms of the environment by meeting over zoom sometimes you save well 15 cars from having to drive hundreds of miles to go to a meeting yeah yeah turn around and go home yeah early on that there are yeah early on did you read that um you could see the fish in the canals of Venice and in China you could see stars that they haven't seen for they didn't even remember um so things were were opening up um that that were maybe subtle but oh my yes absolutely yes fog was lifted from cities that had been that's right exactly yeah yeah yeah well I want to turn if we can to some of the maybe more fun things of life here you have I know you like to walk because I've seen you on the bike path you have other applications that you enjoy doing well I always say that if I don't get my two weeks of beach rental in Ogunquit Maine that I will fall apart and I will need a lot of help if I don't get that so the ocean to me is is so replenishing so rejuvenating and and that's that's important I love that I I say I don't like to make dinner but I love to cook so as you know you have people over deciding what you want for dinner and there's just the two of us eating is not that fun but but you know organizing for for gathering is is always fun and and the walks I love them alone and I love them with people both both ways um yeah gardening my garden looks beautiful my flowers are are both my husband and I tease that you know he's the gardener no I am the gardener we both we both love it but um the peonies right now the lilacs before I mean the the cycle of life Gary is is interesting it sounds a little schmaltzy but it's it's really neat you know the crocus come then the daffodils and the tulips and looking forward to everything and I love fall I I don't love knowing I love winter but I don't love knowing it's coming right right and it stays for a long time yes yep after after june 21st I say oh the days are getting shorter I know after december I'm thrilled I I think it was a minute longer today so yeah yeah uh did you have any special birthdays in your life that you remember my birthday should be a national holiday I drive my family crazy just crazy yes I have had good birthdays oh good the last one was was February and my seventh and and I didn't know what I wanted I just I didn't know and I I just said you know what believe it or not I'm letting my birthday go this year we can't get together yeah it won't I just and my daughter who was very much my kindred spirit got her brother and father together and anyway we had a drive by people came a friend said let's go for a walk so I said okay come it so what time you come and she tells me and we start walking down the driveway and I see commotion I'm on a dead end street so no come on figure that out oh my god well it was it was just perfect it was you know and and we laughed and and again my husband is is not so social and I always say we balance each other but he loved it people waving and going by they didn't have to come in the house we didn't eat it we Sarah had had little party favors for them but you know it was oh we laughed and laughed and it was a 25 degree sunny Sunday that that's we did this on and and I was totally surprised so that's that one was a big one yeah yeah Bravo to Sarah she's amazing she's yeah both my kids you know Peter Peter as well in his world and business and I think you take who they are and and you know maybe pride in in what they've done but but when they screw up I go well that wasn't because of me I didn't you have to look at balance it a little very good they're patient with me that's important they're paying well is there anything we've missed that you would like to share I can't thank you enough for the opportunity not not for this that you know recorded but the the thoughts I mean I think my 70th birthday was was a bit of that as well but you know it matters what we do it matters and and so I I thank you for that and in a humbling way I love that you've recreated who you are with with this and you know I I didn't put into words what you did but you read the bitch where he's and said why didn't I know these people you know it so I I am humbled and honored that that you called and and and what it's done is help me see that you've got to you've got to participate in life would you say I engage I didn't think of it that way but yeah so thank you no no I look forward to your your other people and you know seeing what it's all about oh good but how about last words of wisdom to the audience perspective oh maybe back to that it's not what you do but how you do it with a little a little grace a little fun a little you know you can do hard hard things but when you do them respectfully um it matters I and and that's not easy it's not easy that's right um but but but try to take a deep breath and remember that I guess thank you John Linus thank you very dear Carlos you have led a wonderful life and I look forward to the future see what you do thank you very much thank you thank you yes you're your future too Gary we'll stay connected we'll stay connected absolutely all right take care yep