 Okay, it is four o'clock and so we will call the meeting to order We are not usually in this room. So we'll all get used to our microphones feel very official My name is Jennifer Taub and I'm the chair of the local historic district commission We're very excited that this is our first official meeting with a full commission. We've had some vacancies. So I'm delighted. I think we'll go around and introduce ourselves as you may know Nate Malloy is also He's the senior planner who began working with the Commission on a staff Last month. So we're thrilled to have Nate here and then we'll go around and introduce ourselves and our affiliation I'm Bruce Caldum. I'm Phil position of the architect on the commission And again, I'm Jennifer Taub. I live in the North Prospect Lincoln Sunset local historic district Morian Adams. I'm in the same logo historic district I'm just going to mention that if the meeting runs over I have to leave at six So I don't want anybody to feel personally insulted Okay, so we have three items on the agenda today and with each one We will ask that the applicant come and make a presentation on their application and then the commissioners will have questions that we will ask of the applicant and Then we will open it up to public comment and ask any members of the public that are here to come forward and then with for each application after the public comment we will Close the evidentiary what we call phase of the meeting and while you're still here the commissioners will Discuss the application amongst ourselves and during the discussion we may have additional questions of the applicants and then we will you know Hopefully be able to reach a decision on each application if for some reason The discussion on as with the last item on the application We probably won't have the time by when we close at 6 30 to Act on perhaps the third application then we just keep the hearing open and continue at our next regularly scheduled meeting and we'll before I ask each applicant to come up Nate will would you like to Summarize the applications sure so the first application is 24 North Prospect Street. It's for a window replacement Have to keep holding the button. That's interesting the Yeah, so that you know they're redoing the windows some of the windows are replacing in kind so it looks similar and I think it's just one window on the north-facing side that they're changing the Appearance of the window so I can pull up an image of that on the computer And I'm not sure if there's an applicant here for 24 North Prospect. Oh, okay David Litvec, okay, please come and present With a arrow That is currently a pair of double-hunges and we're gonna change we want to change that to a Larger window same configuration two over two each double-hunges, but they'll be it'll be a sliding window And the other two windows they look the same, but neither Okay, oh you do a photo there's another an additional one So that's what you can see from the road you go around the corner a little bit and you'll see a sliding glass door And that that window doesn't appear to be visible from the street, so it wasn't captured in the images, okay The slider Yeah, but if it's not visible, it's not under the purview of the commission So do you have a picture of so? The window that you're replacing will look the same it will just be different material It will be a different style window and be upgraded glass Right will it be would double the size of the opening You're doubling the side, you know Defends in a double-hung it opens halfway It's Just to clarify so the right now the window right here that's with the red arrow You're not enlarging the framing part of it A little a little different size, but otherwise it's very similar in appearance with a with a central Yes, okay, so you're saying that the rough opening is staying the same size more or less And the wind But the sashes will be twice the size because there are two sliding sashes and not for double-hung session Now I understand and will it be wood paint or No question so I notice I Can't point Second window the I understand but The size and the symmetry between what you're doing in what will be the bathroom and the current kitchen window Will they be similar size or Yes, okay And I don't think so. I just want to be so we've established there are two sashes They're sliding but the muntin arrangement in those sliding sashes will reflect the existing situation So basically we'll have a window a pair of windows which will be Have the casing material around as is currently So essentially From an appearance standpoint, it's going to be hard to tell the difference Yeah Accepting that it's going to have a still height slightly higher because it wants to be a bathroom So I think I can understand that I don't want to have a shower with Right like to have a high still. Yeah, cool. Okay. Okay. I think we got it. Thank you And are there any members of the public that have any questions or comments on this application? Okay, thank you. So with that Can we move to do? Move to close the public hearing public hearing all in favor Okay, we can we can still push our buttons, right? Nice pushing Staff recommends to you know approve the certificate of appropriateness because it is substantially similar in appearance and size to what's existing I Agree, so I could move that we approve a certificate of appropriateness for the Property at it's twenty twenty four North Prospect North Prospect Street to replace a window in view We find that the proposed Alteration meets the criteria found in section eight point one and eight point two of the Hammond's local historic district bylaw And number two that the proposed alteration Will have No apparent change in appearance And we'll have no negative impact to the Local historic district Dickinson local historic district Yes, okay That's it Second Jim. Okay all in favor. Yes, okay Congratulations on your window. Okay. Thank you very much Okay, so With that we'll move to the next application and Nate would you like to Summarize that Yes, so what's viewable now is the site plan And Sure, so, you know this application is for At seven piece place is for the removal of a one-car garage with replacement of a new You know two-family home that's In roughly the same location as the garage The you know this application came before the it's a new application a similar project came before the Commission earlier with You know very similar proposal the house was actually a little bit bigger slightly different with the front entry porch The applicant after the zoning board process made modifications and it's coming back now with a new application So what's before the Commission now is a design that's responded to the concerns of The neighbors by pulling the house forward it's slightly smaller in terms of its width and height and the front entry porch has been Removed and there's a side entry porch the you know Greek revival style so You know the architecture the treatment You know staff sees that it You know matches and is similar to what's in the surroundings and the you know the size and scale of the property of the proposed You know single duplex meets you know or similar to what's in the district as well the You know, I think the Commission's first role is to look at you know Whether or not you know the removal of the garage has an impact to the district and then you know to look at The new new unit that's being proposed and I think with that we can have the applicant provide a presentation Right more detail and if you could say your name before you speak that would be we'd appreciate that I just wanted to introduce the three of us. This is the property owner Joel Greenbaum My name is Chris Farley. I'm the architect with Cune riddle architects, and this is Bucky sparkle. He's the civil engineer so Nate, I think you gave a pretty good description of the overall project I think what we'd like to do is do a quick review have bucky do a quick review of the site and the improvements and a Few of the changes that were made from the previous application And then I'll talk a little bit about the proposed duplex structure. That sounds good Thank you, Chris Again, my name is bucky and I'm gonna talk about the site. I see we have the proposed site here. So before getting into this more deeply. I'll just sort of sketch in the Existing conditions, so I think we're okay here Thank you, and we saw photos of the garage earlier But the the main difference between the proposed site plan the existing conditions plan is that there is a garage where I have the big magenta marker on the screen and We can talk about that more in detail from a civil site plan I've got the easy part of this job here. We're we're taking down the garage and At least that is the intention replacing it with a two-family dwelling and From the last time we were here, I just want to point out the changes to the site plan So as Nate pointed out the building is a little more narrow the front porch is removed So it's a lot shorter and that was done primarily to save the spruce trees that were in the back This is some of the feedback we got from the planning board So in order to get out of the root zone for these trees the building had to get used to go Right up to the back lot or setback line So this entire area has been opened up by removal of the porch and changing dimensions of the structure the other change that has a degree of significance here is that we have Currently two four parking spaces between the buildings We used to have four parking spaces over here as you can see we now have two. So these have been eliminated Additionally, we are adding some screening for headlights through this section and through this section In addition to the stormwater management and utility construction, which is all sort of site plan planning board stuff Those are the changes to the site of significance. I think I don't think I Miss anything on that This is true yet getting into access there were other questions through the planning board process where we've we've added a little more pavement over here to create a wider swing radius Out of consideration for the occasional pedestrians that come through this area. We're also adding Some pedestrian safety signs on the street Again, that's you know, mostly site plan stuff, but at least you should be aware of those changes Thank you So I think what I'd like to do is just to talk a little bit about the garage first since the part of this proposal is to Remove this one car garage There's some conflicting information From the research that's been done about the date of the garage We're prepared next week to go before the historical commission for a demolition delay hearing on on this garage so I I think it's my understanding that that that the Decision about how old the garage is and and and whether it's significant has been moved to the historical commission for that hearing but as I said, it is the intention to to remove this and And to replace it with the with the duplex So the proposed Building this is the the first floor plan here This is the the front of the building in plan, which is this elevation in the upper left When we previously came became before the board there was a front porch So across the front of the building and then it wrapped around to the side As Bucky said in order to shorten the building and to save the trees in the back. We eliminated the front porch Maintained the side porch so that both entries the entries to both units are off of this side porch this entry here Goes into the first floor unit and the entry here Goes inside up a set of stairs and then comes out essentially in the same spot The style of the building is a Greek revival It has a simple enclosed pediment that faces peace place. This is this is the elevation If you were to be walking or driving into peace place off of Halleck Street. This is what you would see the The first floor windows are a little bit taller than the second floor windows Which is typical of many Greek revival buildings and in fact you can see that in some of the neighboring buildings as well We intend on the side porch to have the support columns be dork columns that would support a very simple and tablature and and roof edge and Then this there would be a historically accurate cornice and small and tablature in the main building There's a little a little bit of a cross gable here on the west side, which is what This piece is here the two bedrooms From the previous application we've reduced the height of the building by two feet We've reduced the width of the building by two feet and we've removed the front porch and Thus reduced the length of the building by about six feet. So it's okay. I'm sorry Joel just reminded me that we also Reduce the overall size of the building by two feet So the old the footprint has been reduced by eight feet in order to save the trees At the back of the property here behind the behind the building The Proposal is that the materials the siding materials and the trim materials will be painted wood The colors here are meant To represent the the currently proposed colors the body of the house would be kind of a Rose color the the pediment On the gable ends would be a slightly lighter shade The windows would be black. They'd be clad wood. So they'd be aluminum clad on the outside Wood on the inside, but the cladding would be black The trim would all be white painted wood trim The the porch would have a most likely a composite deck gray decking material Asphalt shingle roof most likely medium gray color On the on the east side of the building right here and plan it's right here There'll be a three-sided enclosure of two containers one for trash one for recycling There'll be screened from the public on this face and and certainly from the back from any views that might come through the The properties on McClellan Street There are a couple of exterior lighting fixtures There's a fixture here on the west side of the building This fixture is intended to illuminate this part The west part of the site, which is where the four parking spaces are would be on a motion sensor So if somebody drove up and wanted to come into the building the light would go on And then after a couple of minutes it would go off On the back of the building. There's a second means of egress coming from this staircase here And there's a wall-mounted sconce Downcast which is meant to illuminate that second means of egress The only other fixture lighting fixture proposed is that here Just off the porch there would be a six-foot high Downcast freestanding post-mounted light It would match in style the light on the back of the building All the lights would be would be shielded and downcasts per regulations And I think that's it that's the that's the basics of the building Bucky anything to add from your end or Joel? Okay, that's that's the overview. Right. Thank you Yeah, I just wanted to respond mate would regarding the garage that Whether or not the garage is over 50 years old or built within the last 50 years we will still vote on whether sure so that you know, there's in the town the Demolition delays in the zoning so the historical commission looks at things that could be potentially historic Over 50 years the local historic district if it's in the district looks at any removal or demolition whether or not It's an older or newer building so, you know So for this they're looking at both the demolition or removal the garage and then also the new structure So, you know the certificate would encompass both of those pieces so it is under the purview of the Commission So even if you were proposing a new structure taking down the garage would have to come before the Commission Just as its own project and so my thought just quickly if we went back to the site plan We we had a site visit today And it looks like just for reference that the newer structure is actually out quite a bit Compared to the existing porch in front steps of the existing house and it looks like the roadway is being made narrower So right now it's pretty peace place the pavement is somewhat wise You can almost have parallel parking on the north side And so it looks like what you're doing is you're actually going to create more lawn in front of the existing house with a Longer walkway to the to the pavement. Who's that? Is that accurate so where I'd be curious where they exist where the proposed house is Where is the existing garage located if you if if someone were to say, okay, where is the front of the garage? That'd be fine Just to clarify three questions about the the pavement right in the existing garage Just so we get a sense of the location of the proposed structure, right? Well, all right, so the the existing garage You'll see this line continues on the proposed plan as well. This is Considered the setback right front setback So you'll see that the garage is over the side setback by a little bit and a couple of feet short of the front setback And you'll also notice that the hatched area is everything. Oh, I'm sorry. Yes I'll speak the same way just bring this in All right, so that the hatched area is Proposed removal of both the building and existing pavement so we are looking to diminish the width of the pavement all through this area and basically take this existing parking and Make it a safer condition really and turn it this way so there won't be parking there No, not through here. That parking is being turned and you'll see it resides Yeah resides in this area exactly, okay And the front walk instead of coming out and then sort of connecting to this little corner of asphalt is being extended straight to the proposed Pavement line. Yeah, it's it's the same this existing line here Is where the the new walk will come to? So that's that's the change The up the new curve to widen the Radiance or the a piece of the elbow in these place will that follow the crosshatching? Yes, yes, you'll see that we're actually going to add a little bit of pavement Just a sliver of a triangle over here But in terms of removals then we're arching through and we can go to the next sheet to show that you receive more Um street for cars because those cars are in park there Yes, and it's a safer turning radius better for emergency vehicles allows the cars who are parking other parking parallel which is a little awkward but also then they have to do a funky You know, especially without the they can back up now Several car lengths and and do a t-turn in the existing garage driveway But that's going away So the the existing parallel parking would create a nightmare to try and turn around It was concerned for safety for the other houses that act that turn there, correct The the safety concern had to do with pedestrians walking in the pavement in the street Okay So but if you go if we jump from here to the proposed conditions, yeah, how this works It's not that okay There we go So here's that front setback line and I spoke of and the side setback runs Along this line here the building's actually In set it's a couple of feet. So we're moving the whole building to the west by maybe four feet and The old garage the corner and the face of it was around here And for the purpose of saving the spruce trees in the back We're dragging not only have we shortened the building by eight feet But we're dragging it a little further forward as well Mostly at the request of the residents to the rear Which came out of the planning board process But you can see the there's a little bit of pavement through here that we're adding and Then effectively this is Existing pavement and we're gonna add a curb through here to control this with the water to keep it from going because right now Which is it drains right through here? so we're gonna grab it and Make sure it's controlled and sent to the rain garden because we do have some stormwater controls for all the new impervious area There's anything else on the site plan No, thanks. I just wanted you know the commission when we were there just to get a reference for you know with the Existing house, you know where the porch is and the steps and the relationship of what's being proposed just you know They can get a sense for its location on the site. So that that was helpful Okay, so I had a question with the four cars that would be parking between the two houses Do they all is it one in front of the other? Yeah, I have a couple of vehicles sort of sketched in you know, it's a real size. Oh, I see there They are yeah, so there is stacking right for for two of the vehicles They're gonna have to know each other right, but they're all living in the same space I mean there's two units, but I'm expecting that you know as part of the lease Jill would probably have one aligned being one unit and one alignment being the other unit It wouldn't make sense to have separate units parking each other in So that's the that's the situation for parking I'm not sure oh I'm new to these meetings so if the question is not applicable here just let me know let me know Is this geared of the bedroom is the same size or is there a master bedroom unit in each of the units is it is that not Information that we can ask yeah the interior the interior is not really part of the review here So we're not but the commission is not looking at use at all. It's really the architectural View from the exterior and what house viewed from the street So, you know, I I wouldn't I would recommend that unless you want to answer it They don't they don't need to answer it for this part of this review it's really about you know if if for instance if there was a master bedroom and it was punching out of the side of the house and there was you Know some some funny angle to the house because now they have this big master bedroom Then the commission could say what's happening in that space, but for here, you know, it's not apparent that That's happening. So the the interior use isn't really guiding the exterior design I'm I'm I'm happy I'm happy to answer the question even even though it's not yeah really part of part of your purview The intention is that these are apartments They'd be rentals The three bedrooms on each level are really intended to be the same size so that there isn't really a hierarchy They're all pretty much the same size and it isn't None of them have attached to bathrooms. There's a common bathroom for all three bedrooms Well, the concern is then that potentially six cars to park if you if it's if three if it's If it's not if it's you hear my question. I know I understand completely and the way Jules Rentals would go is that each apartment would have access to only two spaces There's a parking sticker that would be required which is checked on a regular basis And and so any any cars that would be parking here In addition to the four spaces for the for the two apartments would be towed And it's anticipated it would you know be unrelated people living yeah, thank you. Thank you There's a couple of questions But first I'm I know that you all have been before and You're coming back again because you've made changes and generally speaking. I think we understand that those changes are all Well, you could call them de minimis if they were But they're they're minimizing The impacts that we might have been concerned about In most respects, but since you're back And You're taking your life in your hands once again, and since we did the site visits and I parked on North Pleasant Street and walked up What is he had a Couple of things I noticed that I thought I just want to find out about first of all your your you mentioned the clues gable Are you cladding that in clabbins the same way as? You are cladding the rest of the house The the intention is that the main block of the house the first two floors would be Horizontal clappards painted the enclosed gables would be most likely a flush wood condition of wider boards As represented in thoroughly excellent That's what I noticed as I was walking down the street And I thought wouldn't it be nice if that happened there too because that seems to be the pattern in the neighborhood Second question really is a confirmation. I've looked I've got your previous Submission here as well. So I have additional material It looked as though you're your Cornerboards are wide at least because I put my hand across the cornerboards going down the street and most of them are Essentially eight inches wide I don't suppose they are eight inches, but I hope they're at least six or are they indeed eight I'm thinking of the actual corner for it's dull not the inside corners the outside corner the Intention especially on the porch is that the the the plasters or cornerboards related to the door columns would be sized Similarly to the column so they would probably be ten inch But the intention is to be is to have the cornerboards around the building to be at least a full six inches Or maybe possibly seven and a quarter to be a full one by eight Okay, once again, that feels very good to me anyway, and the The only question that I had which is perhaps now a comment I did notice that the building seemed to be even a foot or two further Away from the drive than last time and last time There was a porch there. So in fact the One change that I know that's not not minimizing is the impact at As you come down the driveway because that massive the building is closer to you and I understand that you're doing that to Make a better shot at keeping those trees alive on the back boundary and I understand I think now that that was a cause for concern By the neighbors and a previous hearing and another body From our point of view though It feels I mean I can see that site plan there It looks like you've got about three feet between the curb and the face of the building right at that point there And I'm wondering whether that could be made to be five. It just feels The next every foot there is is going to be noticed I I guess the if I can just digress for only a moment the new building that's been built The five-story building or whatever it is just down the road from that has got a remarkably invasive Impingement upon the sidewalk and I suspect that Residents now are probably rather sensitive to big buildings Relatively larger buildings than the garage anyway coming up close to the pavement. So I'm feeling that that You've made a judgment here about the trees the the Forces that are reigned at a previous hearing were pushing the morning forward. I'm feeling that it's our job to try and push it back and I Guess the question would be could we could we push it back to feet? without injuring the aspirations of the Have the neighborhood well, I think Excuse me just to just to clarify the the approximate dimensions. We're talking about so the depth of the side porch Is about six feet Maybe six and a half feet So from the from the proposed curb to the front is about the same dimensions six or six and a half feet Pardon Are you saying it's already what I'm asking for? Well, I just I know you're asking for it to to be increased I just wanted to be clear about what the approximate dimensions are Since there were a couple of avenues available to us to try to reduce the depth of the building to save the trees behind We looked at a number of things Taking all of the all of that eight feet out of the building really was not practical For a variety of reasons and so the front porch was the was the the candidate on the chopping block We are we are Trying to strike that balance between the distance from from the paving And and saving the trees behind we would certainly Be open to looking at trying to inch it back a bit We're a little bit between a rock and a hard place here with that in the respect to that I will say one thing that that that makes this really quite different from the building on on North Pleasant Street Is that this is a private way? this is in a public street and so the really the the people that are Most often going to be either driving or walking along the street are the immediate residents They're just a handful so it's not quite the same as as as building right up to the pavement on a public street But but having said that I I certainly understand your your comment and your concern I I think I can speak for Joel We would be happy to look at whether or not we can push that back a little more and still save the trees at the rear So thanks. I just want to say that Right the commission can look at how the building is cited in terms of the other you know The context of other buildings the setback is something the zoning board is being asked to look at too. So there is As Bucky pointed out the dash line show showing what would be a typical setback And the zoning board is allowed to you know to reduce that or waive that and so when they're going before the zoning board In a week or so You know they're asking to have that be reduced so the building can can you know fit on the property and then not damage the trees so I Agree as a balancing act of how do you? You know respect the site and the neighbor's concerns and then also have the ability to have this design on the site so the commission You know to Bruce's point was can there be some You know how can that balance work and so the commission can look at that But I also want to let you know that the zoning board is going to be looking at that So the commission may say we like the way it is now And then I'll let the zoning board know and then they have their purview and they may have some other opinion But for now, it's really how does this building fit on the site? Contextually with the other buildings and really the setback issue is something the zoning board is going to pick up I have a couple of questions one is the dotted line area to the left of the four cars and to the right of the Existing seven-piece place. Is that a wall or is that a green area? There right there. Yes. What what does that represent, please? That represents a con on-site concrete walkway Which is which is existing? Portions of it will likely have to be removed in order to construct the new Driveway, but the intention is to put a concrete walkway back Pretty much exactly where it is now. So that's what that represents So that means that the existing Even though this isn't exactly in our purview the existing lawn To the left of the new building will become parking area with lawn to the rear of that. Is that your plan? So so yes this Under the car these four cars would be new paving that would be replacing existing lawn Beyond that toward the back of the property all of that lawn would remain With the one exception of this rain garden. This would also be a Pervious area it would be new plantings, but it wouldn't be lawn per se. It's a it's a catchment for for runoff In an effort to try to keep water running from the site Into the backyards of the properties to the north and McClellan We're trying to capture some of that runoff in these two rain gardens here, which are depressions To to try to catch that water. So it's still green, but it's not lawn So a further question and again, I'm stretching boundaries a bit Clearly the garage had been the garage for what is currently seven P's place and So that's why you have those two cars to the left of seven P's And although our focus has to be on structures You know that I'm also interested in historical streetscape and That is one lovely beautifully Cared for a garden at the moment, which is an amenity for the entire neighborhood I think, you know still green balance done a beautiful job with that. I'm wondering what will remain Once the parking area is built Yeah, there was some grass before the garden started. I could see from what you did. Yeah, it's beautiful There any Further questions No, so, you know the few things I heard was that there's also a freestanding lamp and there'll be pedestrian signs I wasn't sure if you had any images or anything showing those few items and even the possible lighting on the building You know the plans we had didn't have some of those details. I just want to make sure that the commission Sees what some of those elements are It's easier to see So so we have three I'm sorry. We have three cuts for lighting fixtures on the sheet This fixture right here is the fixture that would be on the side of the building It's essentially a floodlight fixture and that would illuminate the parking area The motion sensor yes, that's on on the new building that will be on the West side on the west side facing the four four new parking spaces It so it would it would be a motion sensor it stays on for one minute And if it doesn't sense or it goes off after one minute if it doesn't sense motion It's a shielded light even though it is a floodlight and it meets the guidelines for downcast and dark sky fixtures That Amherst has guidelines for and then the other two fixtures They're a copper a metal copper type fixture This is the six the fixture on top of the six foot post That's right between the new the new porch entry porch and the parking space So there would be a six foot. This would sit atop a six foot post And then this is the fixture at the rear of the building Which is a sconce a building mounted fixture to illuminate the area directly outside of the second means of egress the back door of the building And let me just scroll back here So this right here is the six foot post fixture Right here is the motion sensor floodlight with shielded light and Right here is the building mounted sconce right beside the rear exit door second means of egress And My question may be more a zoning board question because I was concerned about the safety of peace place of two-way traffic there now that we're a number of residents before the elbow and You have seven P's be going either That could be going other direction I'm wondering are you thinking about putting any kind of Reflective mirror or something that would ease two-way So so the people coming in could see traffic that was headed the other direction Because I think there is more traffic added now and although it's a zoning board concern I'm concerned Sorry, I just I think I'd like to ask Bucky to address that because he we did discuss and worked on some safety features and Bucky you want to talk to that? Yeah those reflective mirrors are far more effective in When you're pulling out into traffic and you can take a moment to stop your motion list you look at a Con I always have to do it on my head come vex surface Which means your brain's got to like really home in on this and distorted image if you're driving and you're in motion The opportunity for you to be driving and look at a weird mirror to try and see what's coming around the corner is Far more distracting than just paying attention to the corner that you're about to take So that kind of mirror doesn't add to safety. In fact, it variable may detract from it we are installing as Chris brought up a pedestrian warning sign Because there will be two new residences Because there are currently five properties that are accessed off of this road So we are we are adding two new residences. I'm not sure how many residences are there now So there is an increase in in the traffic to a degree So we're trying to keep people mindful of What's going on and we have adjusted the pavement width as well to try and create more room than is the current condition So we're we're making a little bit better in the ways that we can Thank you. So I'm Nate. We're bumping up against The next agenda item, right? So I think the you know, we could You know Amherst media was scheduled to begin a hearing at 445 and I think we can you know the commission can We could you know, so we've announced that that hearing is happening if we think we can You know wrap this up and in the five minutes we could ask everyone to wait If not, then we'd you know, I would ask that we continue it if we think we're gonna have another you know Half an hour discussion on the yeah, well, we haven't gotten to public Yeah, so it's up. You know, it's it's your call. I think we could ask Amherst media to wait till you know You'd say, you know, five, you know, five or five ten or something and then we'd open the hearing then if that's Yeah, so I think we can if Wait till 510. Yeah. Well, you think might be appropriate. How many people are here to address the seven piece place? Would like to make public comments. Oh Two of you. Okay So if the commission do you have so Oh, let's see We know we haven't had that no, no, yeah, yeah, we haven't had the public meeting. Yeah, I was trying to sense whether any of us I don't I don't either but then we don't quote. Yeah, we just so Should we say till Yeah, yeah, keep going. Okay. We may I mean I would say like, you know, we could try to say it by you know Five or five oh five. Yeah, okay. So we ask you to bear with us So you might want to say, well, yeah, I guess to yeah, if one of you You could go there may be some you may be called back for questions We'll be in the wings. Okay. Thank you And we will so we're gonna move now to the public comment portion of the second agenda item at seven piece place and That we asked those of you who are here for the third agenda item on Gray Street to bear with us. We will should wrap this up in the next 15 or 20 minutes Okay, if you could say your name and oh you're here together great. Okay Your name and address in Amherst. My name is Richard Gordon. I'm Nancy Gordon's son who is resident at 27 piece place Which is the abutting property to number seven and Hi So you're Nancy. I'm Nancy Gordon And I've lived on P's place for 60 years Contemplate that for a minute 60 years the problem with P's place is That it is not a public road It is a private road and it cannot become Four Wide enough to become a public road it is gonna have to always be a private road What this has meant is been among other things that we have always had to pay for snow removal ourselves I have been the one who has been arranging that because I've been there for the longest time 60 years is a long time And then I asked my neighbors to contribute a portion that relates to the length of road that they use when they go in and out But essentially P's place is a private road And It can never be a public road because the what where it comes out onto Halleck Street is not 40 feet wide So it can never be a public road which has to be 40 feet wide so that the Center part which is 20 feet wide can be a public road Which can be driven on by anybody and then on either side. There's 10 feet on either side of the road Which is used for putting signs on and other things like that So whatever you decide to do and what you what has been presented here is quite different from what we've been Presented with before I assume you're gonna let us have another say or something Can I um what I need I think to respond to though is Your Concerns really fall within the zoning Board of Appeals that the local Historic District Commission It's only within our purview really. Yeah, I know except that it's been there for 60 years Excuse me, maybe I can elaborate if I could so what I think specifically what we want to hone in on is section 8.2 of the Historical Commission and to quote in the case of new construction or additions to existing buildings the Commission shall consider the scale shape and Proportions of the building or structure both in relation to the land area upon which the building or structure is Situated and in relation to the buildings or structures in the vicinity. I think there are two relevant points that I'd like to touch on One is that because the existing garage for I believe it's number 44 Halleck Street is non-conforming and this structure would also be essentially non-conforming that your This would not be appropriate use because if you think about it from a historical perspective This private driveway was designed to accommodate very limited traffic And it's now being asked to take on a considerable additional amount of traffic Secondarily if you look at the other homes in the vicinity in terms of the relationship of the size of those structures to the lots upon Which they're placed There is significantly more landmass Associated with those lots and the buildings then would be the case with what mr. Greenbaum is proposing So I would argue that both of those would be Inappropriate uses relating to the surrounding structures in vicinity Thank you Can I say yes just a little bit more I? Am the one who has erased the snow clearing on this road because this road can never be a public road So the public cars go by on the town road you got that right? Yes. Yes. Thank you, and we There are now four plus Let's put it that way Houses that use us to get in and out one of which is the house You know, I appreciate, you know Your concerns and all the points that you're raising but Traffic just does not fall within we traffic doesn't not within the local just for whom does it fall zoning the zoning board and the zoning board would would have to look at this the this local historic district is really looking at the You know the architecture and the massing scale and proportion of the house Yeah, not necessarily the traffic or the use of it or Things of that nature so it What the zoning board isn't it's meeting next week, so that would be the appropriate? Yeah, I realize that but what happens to the house bears a Relevant thing to the what happens on the roadway, right? But our purview actually is not the roadway Okay, tell me what is who is in charge of the roadway. They've said that mom It's okay. It would be address the zoning. Okay, and so you Yeah, I just want to ask you I mean, I'm assuming you've received a notice for the zoning board You know, yeah, okay. We'll make sure of that. They're meeting on August 22nd. Yes We go is that right? I Just want to add that we can either as a board or as individuals Represent that concern to the zoning board of appeals. Okay. It just is not inside our own regulatory Purview, but that doesn't mean we're not concerned about it Okay, so that we could represent that concern to the other board on the behalf of the neighbors Thank you. We actually did do that after the last meeting And so you see some of those changes reflected in a fewer number parking spaces the elbow being increased The parking No longer having curb parking one point. You know, we we All of your concerns this this garage that goes with the house that is out on Halleck Street is right close to the boundaries and You can't see you have to turn The in the order to the end of safety concern again. It's outside of there. Okay, okay, but we thank you very much We thank you. We appreciate it and again If whatever this Determination that this commission makes we can still share your concerns with the zoning board appeal Thank you, right. Thank you very much Okay, so are there any other public or other public comments for this application Yes I I just like to address one of the concerns about size and density if I if I may We we do have a Plan of the neighborhood that shows The proposed structure which is right here The dark outline is the Is the lot of seven piece place The this is the square footage of the lot here And then the other yellow shapes are the the buildings in the neighborhood And I just like to say that in terms of the building size itself. It's a the footprint is about a thousand 742 feet If you look around at some of the other sizes, they're Really quite similar Some of them are smaller some of them are larger The size of the lot is actually quite a bit bigger There's more open space certainly than many of the of the houses on on McClellan our contention is is that the The open space of the lot and the size of the building is really quite in keeping with many of the other Properties in the neighborhood. Okay. Thank you. That's very helpful information. It's actually a question I had so thank you So I think with that. Yeah, we can entertain a motion to close the Evidentry portion of the meeting so moved. I can't as the chair. I can't make the motion Okay, all in favor. Yes. Okay. Thank you. So we can Now we will deliberate amongst ourselves I for one appreciate the changes that have been made After the earlier Representation I think that the scaling back and the greater safety of the peace place And the safety of the trees in the garden in terms of the integrity of that little neighborhood with a little Pocket neighborhood, which is really quite beautiful Is really in the spirit of the local historic district For myself, I support what has now been proposed But I either as an individual or want to urge the commission to make a representation to The zoning board of appeals about any continued safety issues We might have about two-way traffic on what is now a one lane driveway and how to make that safer So I don't know whether my fellow commissioners would want to join that or whether we would just do this as individuals I would be comfortable doing that. You know, we can discuss that. I think we should probably First move to actually, you know addressing. So I think the first well, I could move to remove the garage. Yes Second or do you want to discuss the so we can Yeah, Marianne just made a motion That we would approve the removal of the garage all in favor Yes, okay, so that's the first order business the garage can be removed and then you will go before the historical Commission so now the construction of So I would have separate the issue of the of the new construction from the issue of the Of any concerns that we have that are outside our jurisdiction of the safety of please please place And so speaking just to the proposed new construction. I do support that Yes, I I agree I do too. I I think when we were at our last deliberation, I think I might have mentioned that This is a way in which the town is trying to add housing To our you know into to the to the town and It's a way that generally speaking I support. I think that using the existing Areas and increasing density in those areas where possible and where practical is a really nice way to go For many years our town has been expanding Incremently the bylaw to support and encourage this and so this is the result and I think it's a very good result. I Speaking then as a commissioner, I would Recognize that in supporting this project. We're also supporting other aspirations of the town. I think that the Changes that have been made. I understand that they've been driven by Consultations with other bodies. I think this is an example of a successful town-wide process and I think I congratulate the applicants to on being Respectful and talented in the way in which they're going about this and despite my concern that maybe the building is too close I think I'm I would be inclined to frame a motion that did not address that and left that in their hands Without having heard us, but I don't think there's any conditioned requirements so I'm Inclined to support the proposal of the application as submitted Is that the second any Bruce? Was that a was that a was that a I think we still need a formal motion Wasn't ready to make the motion right and I wanted to ask if there were any, you know from the new commissioners if you had any You know questions or Yeah, Jim I Would agree I think it was I really appreciate the change of reducing the number of parking spaces and and leaving that yes I'm leaving the trees in the back. So Yeah, I would agree that it was That there were Two commissions bodies that had concerns and that the applicant really took those to heart and came back with um, you know a proposal We could live with Before I move right that We grant the applicant a certificate of appropriateness for the new duplex building at the address space place I'm not going to add any conditions There may be friendly amendments to do so and we can we can Can add to that But simply registering that the findings That the proposed structure meets the review criteria found in eight point two and eight point eight of the Ames local historic bylaw That the building has been designed to blend with the overall appearance of the district and that the architectural design features and Scale of the structure will be in harmony with the existing properties and no negative impact to the district Will be occurring Second Before I second I just want to ask if we can then have either a motion or a consensus To write as a group to the zoning board of appeals about the safety issue that we've separated those issues There's a motion Yes, have seconded be seconded or if you know it fails and we have to have another motion So if we support the motion Bruce made to issue a certificate at seven piece place with no conditions Finding that you know the structure meets the review criteria and the buildings designed to blend in and that you know There's no negative impacts Then you know we need a second on that motion before we discuss anything else But that would not rule out than making another motion. Oh, it doesn't right okay when that case I second it all in favor I did not add the condition that the Changes made by the zoning board shall be reviewed Because I thought that that would be an automatic It is an auto it is an automatic so we can support that so you know outside this motion is that if The zoning board requires a change that you need to then change the site plan or the building It has to come back to the local sort district So it's it's implicit in in the in the process of the zoning board says You know we we want to see a front porch on there Or you have to move the building back 10 feet and do something that changes this then it has to come back here And we would work with the applicant on that. Okay, so that's why that's not there. Yeah, what okay? All in favor ready to vote Yes, so it's unanimous so we approve the application Thank you, and would I would be in favor of I guess framing a letter or It can be a it can be just a simple memo. Yeah the zoning board saying that we would like to take the Butters concerns in terms of traffic Into concern. I'd simply like to add that we share the concerns Is Yes, but we can do that I mean that we we have heard the butters concerns we share the concerns and It'll be to the the owner and the ZBA to figure out how to meet those safety concerns but that we are proposing the The structure as it's been the new house as it's been proposed and situated on the property If someone wants to make a motion or if we want to have just have an agreement by consensus on that I think Yeah, I think we could do that by consensus. Yeah, as we did last time. Okay. Yeah, okay Thank you, and we appreciate those of you who are here for the next agenda item for being so patient. Thank you Thank you very much, and thank you for your time. Yeah, thank you for your presentation Flexibility Should we do introductions again Yeah okay, so um Then the meeting did officially was called to order at four o'clock, but since so many of you came in for the Gray Street application and we have new we have Three new commission before new I think since since we last met four new commissioners that we would just like to take a Moment and introduce ourselves again. I'm Jennifer Taub, and I'm a resident of the North Prospect Lincoln Sunset Local Historic District neighborhood, and we'll maybe start Can you press your button? Yeah Greeter Wilcox also a resident Morian Adams I'm a resident of the Lincoln Prospect and I just want to say looking at the clock that I'm going to have to slip out at Six o'clock and it it won't I hope that nobody takes offense if I do so if the discussion runs on Bruce cold and I'm the architect that the The Require there's a requirement to have a architect on the committee and I'm here. I'm Karen winter I'm also a resident of the Lincoln Prospect historical district Jim Lombly from real estate Coini Thank you. I just want to say quickly. I'm Nate Malloy I'm staff liaison to the commission and I'm going to be passing around a sign-in sheet I just like everyone to sign it you don't have to provide anything other than your name But it's nice to have a record of who's here. Thanks and I would like so the way the You know the meeting will proceed is we will invite the applicant to make a presentation and I think that will be bill Gillan will be The architect on the project will be presenting for Amherst media company And then members of the commission will have the opportunity to ask questions of the applicant and then we will open it up to public comment and Can I just ask by show of hands about how many people would came here to to make public comment would like to be called to speak? Okay, so in the I just kind of want to put this out there that we will be Looking to wrap up this meeting at 6 30 so we will not actually be closing the meeting today and We will not be we might be closing the hearing and so the commission will not actually be voting to approve or disapprove The certificate of appropriateness today that in the interest of time and we you know certainly want to give this We want everyone to have a chance who wants to speak to speak And we want to give this the full you know due diligence that this important project deserves So we will keep the hearing open and continue it at our next regularly scheduled meeting On September 9th, so we would usually meet on the second Monday of the month and There's if for some reason you know somebody can't be at that meeting Again, you should have an opportunity to speak today, but you can always You know submit comments to the commission which will be part of our permanent record So I just wanted to if that even eases some of the Tension of what's going to happen today that we will not be Making a determination at this meeting Okay, and with that I would like to I guess invite Bill Gillen and Okay Or Amherst media to make its presentation. Thank you. And if you yeah, of course introduce yourself. Yeah Good evening My name is Jim Lusco. I'm the executive director of Amherst Community Television, Inc Commonly refer to doing business as Amherst media We are the proud owners of this parcel of land on gray and Main Street. That's before you tonight We are back before you having been here in March when we were denied a certificate of appropriateness Before I continue to introduce the next speakers I'd like to very briefly address a concern that many people in the community have voiced about the appearance of the property in Question mainly the lack of mowing. This is very quick. So please bear with me. We have two words to explain our decision ecological restoration This is a process of assisting Recovery of our ecosystem that has been degraded The man damaged or destroyed The native plants that grew are naturally adapted to the climate soils and pollinators of the area to establish They required no fertilizers and little to no watering In our case the current water encroachment, which is still awaiting remediation assisted this non-cutting mowing approach by helping to absorb the abundance of water Spilling onto the pedestrian walkway While aiding the critically needed pollinators This was Amherst media's attempt to utilize the open land for the good of our environment for all before we constructed our new facility In our March hearing we listened to the Express concerns of this committee and residents and went forward to address the issue cited To assist us we reached out to area architects and selected one who we felt knew the historic district area Intimately so much. So his firm is in a butter Is our pleasure to introduce Bill Gillan of Gillan collaborative architects will present our revised plans for you. Thank you Bill Gillan and with me is my colleague John Krifka We're the collaborative I Like to have the first slide to be our model and this is the way we started the project The discussion at the at your last meeting Regardless project seemed to folk focused on where the building was situated and whether or not it was compatible with the architecture of the surroundings So to be sure people understood We made this model and the building that has the two cars in a parking lot in the upper right Is the building that's proposed? we have invited the neighbors and Over three successive nights to come to our office and Give us their comments. We also had a meeting at the Amherst media office and did the same It was a lot of fun. They were very few The only negative comment I heard was that I should cut the grass which I did then it be full-last With my tractor We have not completed or even begun Construction documents it's appropriate for us to come to you and be sure that we've got The right shape building in the right place and the parking lot hidden behind it Before we want my clients want to invest in the detailed drawings Similarly, we haven't bucky bucky still here bucky has not Done the engineering to totally engineer the water drainage issue but he's met with the public works commissioner and they have He's given a good sense that there would be no problem or he it can be done The and which was a major issue at your last meeting Let me Now go to the next plan Floor plan. Yeah building consists consists basically of two wings the east wing and the west wing the east wing is offer our offices and the left wing are studios and Things associated with production in the center is a exhibition entry area all glass Which has two vestibules? One on the south side there and one on the north side Pursuant to a meeting we had yesterday with the building commissioner Robert Moorer and Nate it was Suggested that we might put a door where the arrow is right now a front door there and I realized that would be no problem. It would be great to do I Had somehow got hung up with the idea that I had to have vestibules and really that door is a rather ceremonial Thing people are going to come from the other side the door faces south And so I think that to make it More compatible and look like it is the front of the building which Nate suggested that it didn't look like we We think that's a great idea and we'd like to explore that The building is about four thousand square feet It's all one story It's one story in a two-story neighborhood so we didn't We were glad to have the excuse to put a an attic over the right side and an attic over the left left wing the Attica over the West Wing includes room to have the very high studio was it 14 feet? Yeah, it's a 14 foot high studio So that's good it pushed the roof up so that would look more like a two-story building and on the right side We'll have an attic for mechanical equipment There's no basement. So the rest of it is storage Another major feature of the the plan is that The street elevation the sidewalk elevation at the main entrance right there That is The main entrance and within a few inches of that is The finished floor level throughout and then you go on through that and go out to the parking lot at that point It's also the elevation there. So there's no need for any ramps So that was a major for me very important. Secondly to hide the cars behind the building and To move the building over to corner of Gray Street, which Which then gave the complete view from Main Street of the big long Maybe we should go to the elevations Just want to go to the site first. Okay site plan. Yeah site plan shows the 15 car parking lot which includes an accessible lot and up in the left hand corner upper left corner is a Utility yard where there will be no dumpsters, but there are Compressors for the AC system and a tank for the gas system, of course, you can't use Gas that's in the ground anymore. You have to put propane in Around the around the lot. There is a low retaining wall That's to take into account the fact that the lot stays stays down on the main It's not a slope parking lot And the and the retaining wall will vary depending on the slope on the other side anywhere from two feet to four feet in height the purpose of the Reach the fence above the retaining wall Which I didn't realize till a meeting yesterday with Robert Moore was not to keep people from seeing the parking lot Which I always thought it was it isn't it's to keep the lights from the car from hitting my neighbor's House, which I think is a great idea We also Don't show any lighting because We intend to put the lighting in that wall now with no poles required using LED lighting and Put it in the overhang of the entry porch so that there's So there will be no need for any pole lighting Which would get in people's eyes or Into the neighbors So am I done with that one John? Yeah, I think we're the advantageous Location of the parking in addition to the community Probably wanting early on the building in the southeast corner of the site And also possibly parking behind it is gray street slopes up as in this direction to the north We've taken advantage of the actual pitch of the land at this point We're required to have no more than a five percent slope once we leave the driveway For the cars in both directions and we have that without a lot of earth movement it also allows us entry into the The main portion of the building the receiving hall here at the same elevation as most of the parking and It gets a little higher at the enclosure back here Let me add about that The structure over at the corner The oh Yes, yeah We had a structure there because Bucky thought that he might need it as a place to bury another Tank associated with drainage But Bucky said the other day that he does he won't need that so we're going to be removing That plant what we thought was a planting bed will actually was a Burry tank, but we'll have neither there So the the building east wall It would be here. This would be all one and landscape there in the front. We have a planting plan that to the elevations You can see that where the cursor is now that brick wall won't be there This is the elevation that you see from Gray Street There's a canopy over the sidewalk mostly because I was concerned with Snow slides Because the sidewalk is up against the building and That's where the lighting would be underneath there and on the upper right side there is the the fence and the And the fence would maybe made to match the building So the building is white wood clabbered the fence really white wood clabbered faced on both sides Now before we leave that the outline that's shown here is the actual grade on the other side of The the fence and when we get to the next when we get to the salvation you could see We're down. This is the west elevation so Our floor elevation is the same throughout at 267 and when you're standing Looking to the east from triangle Street Our existing building floor is going to be below grade this represents The backside of what we just saw in the earlier slide elevation of the east and this is This is the line of the parking down here below This is the retaining wall here running east west and this further over here is the first property on Gray Street Yeah, okay We need a new elevation John This this is facing Main Street and you can see why it looks like it'd be a good idea to put the front door in the link between the two buildings There'd be a sign Amherst media we'd like that to be back lit so that there's a no lights on the ground that are lighting that there's a Windows for the offices on the right-hand side and There are then the other side is the business part of the of the business here, and there are computer rooms and studios as Well as the grade down So that we can't put windows going down to the ground Looking like a residential so it it's meant to be to look different from the residential side of it it is a Building that is Commercial it's in a commercial zone and here we are trying to marry the residential Gray Street idiom with the commercial Main Street idiom which I own across the street This will look better than mine This is if you're in the parking lot. This is what you'd be Looking at the double doors over there go into the big studio this Before we leave the mention of studio the studio is tucked into this Northwest corner here, and it requires a full 14-foot clear height Here you could see when we're on this side of the building on the north side. We're pretty much at floor grade so it represents Up to this point pretty much up to here. What is the interior of the working studio? And from here to here. It's pretty much the width. We could go back to the plan and show the area of it a lot of that predicates In addition to the neighbor and in the neighborhood in addition to the style It predicates this possibly being a one and a half story building element even though it's a one-story building Maybe the other option is to Break out the studio as a separate yet again a separate element and make it busier, but we didn't feel that was necessary And down here on the backside This is again the office function the in-house office function and right here are Utility spaces that are toilet rooms and their storage of equipment that gets rental and Again Not wanting to mimic Area windows that now exist But wanting to pick up maybe the the definition of what is across the street at the lumberyard restaurant where there are these kind of bandings of of Horizontal spaces and maybe putting in what might be a more Rural type of window, which again is reflected on the front because we have to get high enough So that those front windows over here on this side are more clear story because the computer activity does not want bright daylight inside that room Also, we that shows also the the planting bed on the left that Will be gone. We expect it that We would come back Not because your agenda is crowded, but because right there It's reasonable as as Bruce mentioned last time You shouldn't come here with in my opinion and I'm thinking should be yours with completed drawings Well, we can show you exactly what windows we're going to use that we'll know that next time in a month, but if we get The encouragement to proceed, right? We otherwise we're going to stop and I don't know what we'll do So our path Before we leave that the lighting we talked about Bill talked about would be embedded inside the retaining wall that's running That separates the property from the Gray Street house that's running east west and then on the opposite side there would be lights under the canopy that Is here this would be lit Below and then opposite where the retaining wall is there'd be lighting for the for that side of the parking lot So there'll be what we call tweaks. There'll be mutations Because nothing stands still and as we go through and we'd be happy to love it to come back and get some more encouragement from you Okay, before we leave the model the the map pins, which maybe you can are a little hard to see here Designate the entire property, right? So here is 401 Main Street across the street and here is the commercial properties with elements hot tubs And and what was the lumbar yard restaurant? so the area well in front of the historic houses up the hill Remains open There might be discussion about whether it's open enough That's something we could easily discuss and those trees where the curse Those trees are there now yeah And right now there's a there's a neighbor fence that runs Just to clarify can you say the existing fence right you just mentioned John Is that at the same location where the retaining wall will be located or whether retaining wall actually be pushed into the hillside? Well, here is the the existing fence or a tending wall seemed to overlap here So let me at the same location there seems to be discussion between Both both where the property line is about what's going to be done with that because there might be There might be an incursion The new owner's property But you could see the new owner has built The property steps up here. There's a stone retaining wall. There's a shed Then there's the wooden fence here So this isn't all that easy to solve right now without negotiating between Also, what we what we plan to do with the water issues is Bucky sparkle is Pretty convinced that we can put two tanks below the parking area here underground To handle all the water runoff This would be a shelf Hopefully a shelf that gets built up starting with the elevation 270 here and it continues up to 278 here But he needs a certain elevation here to handle the runoff of the roof water And we don't want to put any aqueduct pipe or anything. He's not going to be any hump there It's going to be a shelf. Yeah, but we'll show you that it appears as a hump right now But most likely we can work the grade so it's a shelf that continues up with the natural slope Not most likely it will be Okay So planning plan, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Thank you very much We really appreciate that Yes, yeah, I guess we'll have some questions asked for some clarification We appreciate that, you know detailed presentation and as Maureen said to the last applicant who Went a bit back to the drawing board that we the commission does really appreciate Your hearing all our you know suggestions and concerns last time and taking you know Many of them into account speaking of hearing I gotta tell you that if you're sitting in the audience you can't hear You can't hear it's very woofy and fluffy. Sorry and especially in the back even with the microphones Can you hear me now? Oh, I can hear you know, but can they hear me? Can you hear me? Yeah, so we I just expressed our appreciation For the applicant having taken the commission's Comments and concerns from last time into consideration and you know bringing back plans that incorporate those we appreciate that Yeah so Now the you know commissioners will ask questions of the applicants, so Should I I can go through my staff yeah, go to the staff report first. I'm sorry Yeah, Nate will go through the staff report first my apologies So the you know, there's a development application report. There's copies in the back table the you know It goes through the different criteria of the bylaw, you know first and foremost there was that you know the Existing, you know lawn is important as part of the historic view shed and landscape of the Hills Mansions And so, you know, I just want to make sure that that's you know recognized the That the front lawn, you know for of this property, you know You know for the Hills Mansions and the woman's club It's this this was all part of the historic landscape and so the the view shed and the treatment of the landscape is important So, you know one of my notes was what's happening with that mound and that's something the Commission can can can rule on so You know the question is if there's infrastructure there is there a way to use it to minimize any impact to that that view shed The you know in terms of the architecture, you know It there's a balancing act of how the structure can relate to Gray Street Which is more residential and then Main Street, which is more commercial and so in my report, you know I note that the the These two buildings are talking about an essential atrium doesn't have a nice treatment along Main Street So the the appearance of the structure right now is not similar to other structures along Main Street or the streets And so I included images of the different, you know properties up up and down Main Street and on Gray Street and Triangle Street in the application To look at you know, the size of the building isn't an issue in terms of the square foot So, you know, they're trying to break down the mass by having a single-story building I think you know the Commission can really look at what's the proportions of the building the siting of the building on the Site do the roof lines the window shape in size and pattern all those things to me need to be examined in terms of are they compatible and similar to the district I Had a number of design points on the last page You know, I also recommended that there could be an alternative design that's presented as part of this process So Bill studies willing to have tweaks and changes and so, you know, if the Commission has enough questions The hearing can stay open and there can be modifications made to the design submitted And so I think that's something that is reasonable So for for for me for the Commission to make a decision I recommend that we need to know the exact height of the retaining walls You know, the planting bed in the southeast corner has said that's going to be removed There was a sign on that corner. So, you know, is the lettering on that sign going to be placed somewhere else on the building? Again, this to you in writing. Yeah, the facade treatment along Main Street, you know, it's very important So how how does that work in terms of the relationship of the neighborhood? You know, the window patterns can seem a little odd with different size shapes so there's square windows and then there's double-hung windows and so You know, that's something the Commission needs to look at is the placement and pattern in size of windows similar and compatible to the style in the in the district The you know, there's the large roof on the western mass So it's a it's a the proportion is a square piece and so the roof is quite high So although it's one and a half stories, it's 32 feet high And so the ridge line is quite high in that building. And so again, that's something the Commission You know needs to look at in terms of is that slope and pitch and proportion and keeping with the rest of it So although the gable end faces Main Street is that proportionality and the slope and pitch appropriate Again the entry on Main Street, I think can be revised There needs to be more information on all the details. So what's happening with the window trim the doors? The fascia the pediment treatment, you know, those are all details that people will notice that aren't really Shown on these renderings and bill admitted that so although we're not necessarily asking for Construction drawings, you know, I would like to see whether it's catalog cut sheets or something explain the detail So, you know on the last one on peace place. We asked about what's the width of the corner boards? I mean all those things are the visual treatment of the building and that's important that isn't you know They may be shown in the renderings, but it's not for me The Commission can't make a decision based on that they would have to have Detail enough to say that you know, they're approving a plan showing this type of corner board or this type of treatment So it sounds like you know, they've addressed the outside lighting and railings it seems like there's minimal exterior features I just want to make sure that if there's any other signs or lighting that the Commission You know gets to be made aware of it so any anything, you know I don't want the applicant to come back again or have to go through the process and say oh, yeah By the way, we're having an entry gate to the parking lot and so, you know, if as long as we're satisfied that there's nothing being added You know the drainage infrastructure was really important last time so Again, that's something the Commission if there is infrastructure that's visible it can be regulated And so it sounds like it's all gonna be buried if that can be confirmed. That's great You know again that the assess the view shed the impact of the structure So we know we had a site visit today. So how how is the siting of the house? How does that work within the view shed of the of the district in the context of it? You know the entry doors are really important The ones on Main Street are important and the ones facing Gray Street in the parking lot are important So in the renderings, you know, it says that they look more like back doors and not front entry ways So if you looked at the homes along Gray Street, they have a nice treatment of front entries in terms of whether it's panel doors or side lights or window treatment and the doors and the renderings look like slab doors with not a lot of Ornamentation so that's something the Commission can look at I Think, you know, I think that's about it. I think there's a lot to consider as a new structure new building new site. So You know, I'd like to encourage the public as Jennifer said if the hearing will be continued If you have questions or comments feel free to email or call me I'm available and you know everything can be run through bill or through myself But you know if you want to send something in writing or call me feel free to do so and then it can get into the record And that way it can also be read At the next hearing if someone can't attend So that'd be great. Sure Sure That's really I guess that's a call for you. Usually we'd ask that the you know Commission ask questions What's the time is it's quarter to six so it's really it's really a you know how the Commission if would like to We'll do is Yeah, is will We can have more questions, but I just throw this out to the to the rest of commissioners if we Try and keep our questions for the till six o'clock so that we can be sure that Members of the public that are here that we don't want to get to 630 or 615 before you've had a chance to Deliver your comments. So Yeah, so yeah, so then my recommendation might be then John and Bill is that you know the Commission can ask questions and we'll take note of them But I wouldn't expect an answer tonight. We have that at least we can get those air and when it comes back That's good. Well, okay, that I have comments and questions the first I Really appreciate your having moved the building to the corner It makes a huge difference because it opens up the sight lines to the two Hills houses in what is a very Sensitive historical area So I really do appreciate that and I'm thrilled that Bucky and the engineer feel they can solve the drainage problem there And that you've put the parking to the north along Gray Street It's I really wanted to acknowledge that that's a major change and that Architecturally, this is a major change that really does At least in my view Fit the area in a way that the earlier one didn't So I'm very appreciative. I'm also very glad you're using white clabbered red brick gray Shingle roof because that's really what you see on Gray Street and when you cross the railroad tracks and kind of head East on Main Street you see although professional buildings. They're still in that farmhouse Colonial revival style, so I appreciate that So I'm just gonna report my questions and you'll take note of them and then we'll talk about them another time. I Really feel that the I Wish there were some way to make the two roof lines symmetrical the one looks to me like a Gable with a pen with a kind of little window in it, which really does fit the gray street architecture Whereas the hip roof is if that is the correct term is really very large very dark and very massive and The two to me do not look as if they belong to the same building I think that my own preference would be to veer toward the vernacular Residential style rather than to veer toward the business style which in that particular neighborhood is not as attractive as it might be in other neighborhoods So that's just one thought a second kind of thought or question is to Really urge a significant Main Street entry The bus look runs along there and so people won't be just coming in from the parking area. They'll be walking You know, they'll be walking east from downtown They'll be coming off the bus and It's a rather forbidding uninviting exterior at the moment So I would urge not just kind of slipping a doorway in there But really making an inviting looking entrance. It's as a question of the mound May very well interrupt the watershed and I think you're saying it won't be a mound mr. Gillan, but We'll hear more about that. I'm sure when you come back I was concerned about the retaining wall to the north I hear you saying that that's a negotiation ongoing negotiation with neighbors and I can appreciate the difficulty there because when we looked at the Fence we really weren't sure what was on whose property There is the issue of bicycle racks because people will be biking in as well. Maybe are we putting them in the parking lot, but That's an issue And that's it for me I Appreciate the comment about the entrance that was one of the first things that struck me is that there's such majestic entrances on the other the two houses That exist you want something that catches that a sense of place so that would that would be one thought and and the For the doorway address that More windows and the windows look sort of like almost like an afterthought And just to be more inviting to a public eye even Just one comment actually our intention was the existing Owner now has a carter and they're building on College Street where they display art and it's intended to be You know a place to be for the public Our intention although the maybe it's the fault of the drawing I think more than anything else our intention is that this link in between would have led in a lot of light And that's central space would also accommodate things like on Thursdays art walk and Rather than have the carter somewhere through the building that you had to find so you're absolutely right He's talking about the design We'll make we'll fix that and we'll make a major and one of the comments does to Relying on two large propane tanks, I live in the neighborhood the thought of two large propane tanks right there is a little bit overwhelming actually Propane tank isn't bigger than this table and it's something that you have to do these days because you're not allowed to Use the gas in the street. There's no hooking into the gas Now maybe in 20 years or so, but None because there was there was a lot of work done on triangle Street a few years back when gas came into the neighborhood But I'm assuming you it's a whole regional thing the gas company is shut us off from any new connections Oh, I would have thought that something like this might have been exempt that that would have been for private residences I know that it's been shut off Everything everything okay Can it be screened so of course you won't we won't see it it be that's why we have the fence around there Those were my main concerns Thank you I'll be quick. I guess we've got seven minutes. Yeah, so a couple of things I think Probably the best thing to start with is the we made four suggestions and I'm talking to my colleagues as much as to and as everybody else And it seems that three of those suggestions have been taken care of Completely and one of them perhaps more completely Number three and I'll read it an alternative building. These were recommendations We made at our last meeting. I mean the last meeting that we met with them as media an alternative building design should be examined Reforms that reflect its position between the urban context on the south side of Main Street and the pastoral historic setting on the north side You've gone with the the north side with the the residential Field the residential image the residential Not in my my Intention Well, I'm not saying this is bad. I'm just I'm just observing that that's what I see here Okay, and I didn't want to go to residential for the business part of the building I wanted that to not look like a residence, which is why I didn't put Residential windows looking into the studio. I guess it's the big pediment and the residential forms of pitch roofs and things like that it's that and Some of the observations that staff have made that Nate reported Talk about scale and so forth and when I look at the at the building the Pediment because you've made a two-story Basically, it's a one-story building and we understand that from last time why that is and Which is why I thought that we could make the building Shorter and in fact in some respects, it's looks it's too short because the the pediment is overwhelming what's underneath it and so I'm thinking how can you make that less of a Crushing appearance of the pediment is big not all not only on the west side we we have a concept which we discussed yesterday with native of Making that building that section a little narrower and putting some of the things that are in it in the other side So so it could be squeezed it will be a little maybe five or six feet narrower Anyway, without trying to solve the problem. Just that's my observation would make me More supportive. I'm generally supportive. I I respect the huge difference The huge huge distance I should say that's been traveled since we last saw you Some details And they're not drawn yet, but I'll just say what I think I Think that that pediment would probably look better if it were But I guess I call an ashlar of a flat not Clabbered but a flat We had the same conversation actually with the peace place folk and the these pediments tend to be Smooth surface and not not clabbered. I think it would be better to if we keep that to have a big Freezeboard down there so that you're diminishing the basically Make me articulating the pediment your photograph that you show has that I can't put my finger on Here this freeze piece here I think if that were 10 inches or a foot a foot it would be big and it would tend Make the the pediment look less brutal. I think yeah Clabbered's I think the clabbered's for a and the clabbered something about in the corner boards could be really wide I mean you could even make double wide. I mean sometimes you see these You've got two 10 inch corner boards separated by two inches and it that will that will compress the Elevation as well all those kind of things seem to be Things that could be done that would for my point of view make it more appealing And I think that it might be helpful for this group and probably everybody if you can make it 3d visual Because what we're looking at are these? Elevations and we're not seeing it as a mass or a volume and I Know from my time when we first started getting electronic digital stuff And you could fly people round three-dimensional models I think that will diminish the apparent impact of the scale of all of what I've been talking about and Make it easier for us to perhaps appreciate how these things work together It's probably enough for me from now and Thank you. So people know there is this the model is actually there People want to just quickly. I mean at Bruce's point. I think a 3d model You know, it's more than a massing model right is really helpful so that we can I agree You know these renderings are flat So when you look at you know, like for instance the elevation from Gray Street You see a big roof behind it But if you see a 3d model of it it helps provide the context and depth that isn't shown in these elevations It's a that is a nice comment Okay, thank you Any other Jim oh Yeah, if you could press your Yeah, thank you many excellent changes made from the previous proposal and I like the idea that it from Gray Street it looks like the Front of a house as the gable end of the house as well as from Main Street. It's a very large Somehow and I Guess I agree with many of the comments that have other people have already made that I had made some notes on and also Please do when you come back keep in touch with pay the items on page four of the Staff report was all that most of us have gone over and Yeah, thank you current Yeah, I understand you're balancing the commercial and the residential and I really like the way it looks from Gray Street, but The difficulty of that all is you don't want it visually to look like a commercial thing is hanging on the side of a residential thing and aesthetically That's That's the difficulty So Basically, I'm very pleased with where you're putting it and the whole idea. I'm sure you're gonna come up with a great solution What we what I thought of was that the very very traditional relationship between the little house and the barn and that the windows look like stalls and I thought that was fun Huh Could the atrium be what would that do anything if the atrium was wider you had more of the glass it might as Bruce was saying if if the West Gable Would that whole section were shorter? Maybe some of the plan building went into the middle Right, you know, it would seem to get would it be a squat part of the problem, too is that on the other side She talking to the mic I guess on the other side You know, it's not a squat because you're down here at grade where the floor is But when you go back to to this side, you're going uphill and you lose the height of what was on the other side You know, but maybe if the dimension were from here to maybe only here You know and it became sort of a different same form, but different proportions Right, it might be more presentable As well as maybe doing something with by bringing this glass around Into this point maybe introducing some more brick like across the street Yeah, I mean we had thought about all those things trying to marry the commercial. Okay. Yeah, I Appreciate all that it still feels to me as if the hip roof and the roof over the atrium feel very massive and heavy and I Hope you can do something to lighten it. We're gonna solve that. Okay. Thank you so I think with that we will conclude our questions for now and Turn to the you know public comment portion of the meeting and you have to Okay, terrific Okay, so we could Ask you thank you and return to your seats because we'll let members of the public will come But thank you very much for that thorough thoughtful presentation So I guess by show of hands of who is it and Well, you know try and get to as many of you as we can tonight so maybe I'll just start right with you the first if you could Come up and you know tell us your name and if you're a resident your address in Amherst Sure, my name is Felicity hardy. I am a resident of Amherst. I live at 574 station road but I'm actually here in my capacity as Counsel to the owners of Henry Hills house which is harm's way LLC Tony bracket and Robert Spicer who are also here and they will also have some additional comments I wanted to Identify some questions for the commission that maybe you could Put to the applicant because obviously there are a lot of details that we don't have information about and The commission has raised some of those but I wanted to Rearticulate some of those I also wanted to Provide some feedback about the facade Specifically for Main Street and then finally I want to bring to the commission's attention some problems with the site plan which Probably will also be dealt with by the planning board, but about which you should be aware First of all the questions I'm I don't quite understand what's going on with that half story on the west side it seems as if It is contemplated at some point to be public space because there is a Central staircase going from the west side on the first floor up to the second floor And that's quite important because Obviously it Speaks to some of the issues that the commission has regarding the mass of the west side of the building But it's also important because If that seconds if that half story is going to be used as public space It's going to dramatically change the parking requirements for the plan. Obviously, that's not Specifically within your purview, but I do think more inquiry about what the plan is for that Second story or half story or whatever we're calling it what that is I also have a question about this mound It was just touched on briefly tonight. I have really no idea what that's doing on this site and its function it's Hard to see because when we see it in two dimensions all we see is some topographic lines But it seemed to me that that could Significantly affect the visual Presentation of this site from Main Street and I go up and down Main Street all the time So I'm very fond of the view for Main Street to the two beautiful Victorians that are really the crown jewel of that of that District before you get to the Dickinson house So those are some of my questions My critique I think is much along the lines the Commission has already identified The fenestration on Main Street just makes no sense to me at all. I I don't know what that's doing I don't know what it's quoting. It just doesn't really make a lot of sense and as you travel up I understand that it's a very challenging Project because it's in this zone where you have some Residences you have some commercial and then you have these Amazing historic buildings at the crest of the hill, but this building doesn't quote any of the the two Victorians that everybody looks at when they travel up and down Main Street and I think that's a shame And I'm hoping that maybe with Whatever the applicant comes back with that we can see something that reflects that beautiful historic Viewshed that we all enjoy in Amherst So those are my questions and critiques I think that the discussion about the door is also very important But I just think that the facade from Main Street just really doesn't make a lot of sense and then finally an Observation and that is that from my review of the site plan It looks like the applicant is proposing a 10-foot setback from the front Property line that's going to be a problem because My reading of the Amherst zoning by-law is that a 20-foot setback is going to be required for this property and the reason for that is because this property and this applicant wants to Have the benefit of Having this youth treated as an educational use But the Amherst zoning by-law requires that in this zoning district if you are going to Propose an educational use the setback for that zone is twice What is contained in the Amherst zoning by-law? So if this weren't an educational use there would only be a 10-foot setback But because my understanding is that it is going to be an educational use There's a 20-foot setback and again, that's really not within your purview except to the extent that you have the jurisdiction to to Gather information about the site plan and in my view that's going to be a very significant problem Thank you for your time. Okay. Thank you Yeah, thank you So I think we'll move down the row Did you have comments? Okay So yeah Again if you could say your name and address we appreciate that. Thank you. I'm Robert Spicer I live at 38 Grace Street, which is the Henry Hills house And I I concur with what I gather the sense of the commission then what we're seeing tonight Is a big improvement? Providing much better answers to what remains as far as I'm concerned a very bad set of questions Amherst media has Persuasively demonstrated its disregard for the Dickinson Historic District and its neighbors By not maintaining its property at Gray and Main Street throughout the summer of 2019 until the evening of August 12 When Bill Gillan their architect got onto a tractor and moated himself in preparation for this meeting The organization has offered various explanation Ranging from Mr. Gillan's explanation that they couldn't afford to move the property to this evening's explanation that it was an ecological reason Regardless of the real reason the Gray Street sidewalk had become all but impassable and the approach to the district and the center of Amherst had become an overgrown trash strewn vacant lot Now Amherst media proposes to construct the first contemporary building On the Hills family's former property in over 150 years This raises grave questions about the station's Intentions for its property and the project's aesthetic appropriateness and its impact on the character of the surrounding district In addition to the visual impact of a contemporary structure and the undetermined effects on vehicular traffic There is concern about what will happen to the area in the future particularly of Amherst media vacates the property The proposal relies on waivers available to educational not-for-profit organizations The resulting structure though could be transferred to another entity that would never be granted such waivers on its own This is not just a remote contingency on March 17th 2019 the Boston Globe reported that community television stations are facing an existential threat The article explained that as the number of cable viewers declines So does the funding to public television the fees the cable vision pays the town which in turn pays Amherst cable television Are declining This situation may well be why Amherst media has been forced to lay off employees Despite financial concerns the Amherst media proposal for gray and main streets entails building a custom design structure as opposed To a renovating part of the high school and has been reported that the cost differential of building a freestanding structure is Over $500,000 well over 50% of the cost of renovation Despite Amherst media's stated intention to build it gray and main streets without paying prevailing wages for labor i.e. not using union labor Such profligacy cannot sit well with the donors who are asked to contribute the funds We are concerned about Amherst media's financial prospects, but more concerned by the integrity of the Dickinson historic district Conceivably the financial problems can be resolved over time But if this building is built it will create problems that cannot be undone. Thank you Thank you. Hello. I'm a Matt massing I just have a question for the board and also to get some clarification Can you state your Matt massing I live at 1277 South East Street. I'm here in the my capacity of representing Robert Spicer and Anthony Brackett So I have one question. Is it you and attorney? Yes attorney Matt massing. So one question and I think I may need one of the either bill or yet to Just one quick question for the board If he could help me with the slides If we could go to the first slide that shows The I guess the elevations My question yet again the one that shows those Okay, so there's a pin Yeah Maybe I can do it not that pin, but this pin right here and that's a that's a property line pin Yeah, okay. Now if we could go to the first the first Schematic maybe a one Yeah, okay. Oh, no you go go down one. Okay, so right here is the pin Okay, and right and if you move it down the corner of the building is right now The corner closest to the pin. Yeah, right right there Now it may be easier to show right here It seems that the building is pressed to the west a lot more. I don't know how many feet Okay, so that's just a question I have for the board It doesn't have to be it doesn't have to be answered tonight. The second thing is as to As to the encroachments And the drainage issue Amherst media's attorney Michael pill Contacted me last week and asked me to commence the work that need to be done. There is a Permit to get the work done Chris Gader the butter is here He is Communicated with grassroots and they're going to start but I just want to make sure that everybody understands that We're not holding back on the work Amherst media told us lawyer last week told us to start the work I can immediately communicate it with Chris Gader and Chris Gader is Communicated with grassroots and it will start pretty soon. Thank you Thank you. Can you just clarify what you mean by what works commencing on the site? the They're going to move the wall and They're going to install drainage Yeah, and they're going to move it I just have a question for our staff member my understanding was from other situations that work that was begun before Permission was given had to be stopped or undone until permission was given Yeah, I think you know, I'd have to confer with colleagues about this before Christine Steve Good evening. I'm Chris Brestra planning director What I understand Mr. Massengill to say is that the Butter to the north of the Amherst media site is willing to start work on removing Items that have been built on Amherst media's property That is correct. Okay. Okay. We will we will drainage question. I used to say drainage. That's all Oh, yeah, there's also a drainage issue that Amherst media has requested. We correct But it seems like the board may need more information. So I will go back to attorney pill and not doing it and Instruct mr. Gader and not to do any work until we come back. You're representing mr. Guadera No, I represent mr. Spicer. I thought so. Okay. Okay, but I have to work in conjunction with Mr. Guadera because he's the a butter that needs to start work Yes Again, this is a question for staff either this breast jumper mr. Malloy It's one issue if The current owner of the neighboring property on Gray Street Makes a decision to move his or her own fence It seems to me another issue To deal with drainage on the proposed Building are those two Separate issues the first one of which would not need Commission permission With the second one of which would Your question raises the point right so if there's any changes to Something on the neighboring property it may need commission approval first So you just can't take down a fence or move something if it's I guess the question is is it what property is it on? But you know the the commission needs to review changes removal of features So if there's taking out of a fence or erecting a new structure taking down a wall that typically needs commission approval Okay, so what I'll do is I'll get back with the Amherst media's attorney Will not do any work until we come back in front of the commission to discuss the work We're doing my hope would be that all lawyers concerned would be in touch with mr. Malloy Yes, ma'am Okay Thank you That was a is there anyone else on this side of the room that wanted to speak and then I'll go I'll move to this Yes, but we should get to everyone Yeah Good evening madam chair members of the committee. My name is Eric Wilkinson. I live at 20 Grace Street Okay, and I am here to urge you To again deny the certification of appropriateness for this project And I'm here for several reasons to support that first I've served on commissions like you all are on now before in the past and I realized that some of these decisions are Difficult I think they're especially difficult when you're dealing with an applicant Who sort of makes a specialty of the good old-fashioned bait and switch? They told town meeting for example that they were going to build a 2700 square foot building Their application before you today says 3,600, but we heard 4,000 just a few minutes ago So what's the real size of this building? No one really knows The developer said that the lot Where it was in fact undevelopable, but here they are trying to develop it They said that no other properties in the town were suitable for development for their purposes That can't hardly be true They said That they're engaged in ecological restoration Which hardly passes the laugh test especially when they're going to cover one of the sites with impervious surfaces They said it's a one-story building, but it's 32 feet tall So there's a lot of Problems and concerns I think with the nature of this development all together and finally I would like to remind you About the purpose of the local historic bylaws here in this town And those and I'm going to read for a second if you'll indulge me The purpose of this bylaw is to aid in the preservation and protection of the distinctive Characteristics and architecture of the buildings and places significant to the history of the town of Amherst and The encouragement of new building designs compatible with the existing architecture So I see that you're trying to work on the second part there making this Compatible, but there's still the first part. I don't understand how this project at all Will aid aids the preservation and protection of the distinctive characteristics and architecture the building of places in this town Thank you very much. Thank you I Just I think I said this last time kind of as a caveat to this is it Just kind of a reminder. It's not within this commission's purview. We can't Become involved in the kind of activity that happens. So if So it did zone for non Residential activity and we can't get involved in in usage. That's just you know not within our purview, but thank you I'm going to go to mr. Guadera because you haven't had a chance to speak did you want to you still want to speak? Okay, my name is Chris. Good era. I live at 219 Strong Street I'm also owner of The abutting property to the north and the property to the east as well to the west as well to the east the the first thing I'd like to say is that I I could probably answer most of the questions regarding neighboring properties because of that but The I have an issue with the I would like the the board to note that the model that's being presented and the slide That's remaining on the screen Actually presents a Multiscale illusion that the buildings are not at equal scale. The positioning is not at equal scale And so to piggyback on what attorney massingill was saying It's a it's actually an illusion of being smaller and less obtrusive than it really is The I'll move on to well without repeating what others have said regarding the height of the roof and all that It is a one-story building with a two-story height So I'm not sure how to call that one a one-story building, but I have some questions that I would like To be asked at some point or presented. I'll just read them off rather than take up time and and one is I have concerns about this Building or structure at the northwest corner of the property. That's not in the models, but was in the drawings discussing compressors For for the air system. I mean, it's the HVAC system is what's probably being spoken of there I So my issue is that my questions that I would like presented are Are there noise studies that will describe how much noise Those are gonna put into the bedrooms in my house, which are right there The they've done a the drawings show them pretty well separated from the Amherst media proposed building But they certainly don't separate them from my building, which is right there Just to the north Correct. Yeah, actually the the fence Well, it's hard to tell with these drawings, but the fence doesn't reach the end of the property the fence is only a partial length fence I'm sorry. Thank you Yeah, sorry the another comment. I'd like to make Moving on is that Although the the colors seem to be appropriate when they pick a white brick gray, etc but Basically as somebody else said there's no there's basically no structural matching of the of the neighboring historic buildings then The other last point that I'll present now is that There's Mention repeated mention of fence of a fence that there will be a white fence or a gray fence along the side of the building in the other slides that will fence off That this property from the other properties, however, I'm not sure how a fence can hold up The ground that's going to be behind it I think that might not be realistic, but it's a question to ask or to to be reviewed in my mind at least The elevation is quite a bit higher on your on the both north side and the Westside so a fence I don't believe would hold up what's I Believe it needs to be held up wall wise of the the ground elevation there and as far as the actual property lines and the negotiation of With neighbors I Could say that I would hardly call it negotiations, but that's Some people just plain call it a lawsuit instead to be honest That would take more resolution That is taking more resolution than it easily could if you want to know right now I can tell you all that before immersed media bought the property and before we bought the 14-grade property to the north we already owned at the 446th of the west to the east But when we bought the property to north it already came with structures that were actually over the line Okay, and So those structures are there a fence a shed part of the driveway and and drainage stuff Material that's draining wherever it's draining, but those were already there before and those are Some could be minor offense that may or may not need some approval that I don't know about but and some are more major but Those are long been in existence Not just a new thing Oh that a neighbor just put a fence where it doesn't belong and just pick it up and move it either So it might be more complicated than that. I won't take any more of your time. Okay. Thank you We've written down all your questions Is there anybody who hasn't spoken that would like to yes you have it, okay? Tony Brackett. I'm at 38 Gray street. I would just two observations if I could If you're traveling from the east over the train tracks towards the center of town on Main Street and You see this proposed structure And you think aesthetically how does it fit into the neighborhood? What was proposed today is very sad Because just beyond that up Gray Street are some beautiful homes historic homes that were moved there because It was an historic property and we have historic homes on it on the historic property But you've got a modern building that just looks very sad to me very misplaced and You get past that you see these two really glorious mansions and This structure has nothing to do with anything on that parcel that you see it reflects None of the aesthetics that you see there I Appreciate that you're speaking to how you can make the structure fit in and look more residential But there's nothing commercial on that block the commercial buildings. You're across the street And it's okay to have those buildings across the street all look commercial But why would you want to have something on this side of the street look commercial? From this because it's nothing else commercial on that side of the street. That's my My first observation and then the second if you're walking Down Gray Street to Main Street If you look at the three homes Starting far left middle in the next There's an enormous setback From the sidewalk and then you get to this new structure that abuts the sidewalk Not only on Gray Street, but on Main Street and that's something you see in a city The buildings are right on the sidewalk But I will argue also in the city the sidewalks are much wider than what we've got here and I find it grossly inappropriate to have this structure it makes it look Much much larger than it really is you have to take that into consideration And if they move that structure West then it's going to impede on the view of the Hills House. I don't see a solution here Other than finding another location. I Just I'm disappointed. I appreciate the effort to make it look better than the other proposal But if you actually walk down the sidewalk or you drive from the east It's completely misplaced everything about it. Not only The aesthetic of it, but just having anything there is just totally misplaced. Thank you for your time Thank you Yeah, and again that just In response when we did our site visit We did notice that the setback was different again, we have to kind of take that up with it the Planning and zoning board as to what how we can weigh in on that that's Yeah, I know but yeah, no, we know but it gets There sometimes gets to be a fine line, but we are addressing that we We noted that and I share that concern Thank you. Is there any we well, it's we're running right up against 630 But if there's one we could probably take one more comment. I don't want anyone to have come and felt it Would this be the last? Yeah, okay, so we will take these two Yeah, can you keep it to a couple of minutes? Yeah, okay. Thank you Hi, I'm Katie Lezdowski and There is a bias, but I don't live on Gray Street. I live up in North Amherst 20 overlook Drive I came here today just to kind of see how this process works see what's going on and Just to hear the public comments around the issue and I think some people are Contesting it and questioning You know the viability or longevity perhaps of Amherst media and the appropriateness of This building for Amherst media's purposes and I just want to say I think it's What better location than the historical district should our Amherst media be placed? You know as someone who cannot often make it out to meetings such as these given family and such I make great use of streaming the meetings and staying abreast of all the things that are going on in our town And so to be able to host a building that are rather to Constructed building that hosts Amherst media in the historic district that is capturing history in the making if you will seems So appropriate to me. I want to thank you all for putting the attention to detail into the design of the building But quite frankly again making that drive-up Main Street Again not being aware of the conversations that are happening I'm kind of astounded to see the level of detail we're discussing because when I drive through and see, you know Bruno's pizza and everything else. I'm not really thinking more. This is an aesthetic place So I think the way it looks again That's just my eye, but thank you for all the effort you're putting forward. Thank you And one more. Yeah Hello, Jessica Wilkinson. I'm a resident of 20 Gray Street and thank you again for this opportunity to speak to you about this project I spoke at the previous meeting about this project and greatly appreciated the attention that you all provided to the first design and The four recommendations that you made at the time Which at least one of the members Referred back to Greatly appreciate the fact that there have been a lot of changes to the project first and foremost moving it closer to the corner very much appreciate that there I think still some significantly Concerning issues related to the other recommendations you made that have been raised today about number one lowering the height of the building considerably Yes, it is a one-story building, but as many people have noted the height of the roof is pretty extreme and Overwhelming and it does not read like a one-story building particularly when you're facing it from some of those angles It is massive as some of you have noted. So Although there's fewer stories the height is still very significant Also that the forms as many people have noted also remain significant concern to me as well as the last recommendation you made about Ensuring that the building is designed in such a way that it's consistent with the Pestoral landscape of the district. I just wanted to note that you know There have been a lot of I think great concerns outlined by staff, which I really appreciated the thoroughness of that and I urge this board to Really take those seriously and make sure that those issues are all addressed Both the issue of the mound and the architectural form and then the list of issues that are outlined there Those remain big concerns to me and I hope that they are they're all resolved and addressed before we're done with this and The other two things that really concerned me today were whether or not this is actually to scale and whether we are getting a real sense of How far this building impedes on the view of the Hills House and the historic District that whole landscape from the Hills House up to family Dickinson house You know the models to me seem to inaccurate in terms of scale and then the last issue I would just raise is related to that the Question of I guess a 3d model much or if that would resolve this But really to be able to much before anything is moves forward on this property to really understand the long-term implications of having this massive structure on the corner that would impede this Incredibly value valuable you skate that is such a Cornerstone of this town's historic character. So thank you very much. Yeah. Thank you Can we take one more yeah, yeah You can yes Hello, my name is Demetrius Shabazz. I am a resident here in Amherst 29 Chapel Road. I'm also the president of the board of Amherst Media and So I'm speaking From both of those positions When we think of history I Really appreciate the what was given last time in terms of guidance. I think we've tried to Take that into consideration. Obviously, there are more details to work out. I don't think they're major I have Lots of confidence and Bill Gillan and his group They have really worked with us and tried to consider the neighborhood and the aesthetics. I Simply want to urge you all in terms of your bylaws to consider Your task I remember coming before you a different group but before you a little over a year ago and Being very excited at the possibility of creating a new construction And we would be the first and we understand that and it's a difficult task and we're really trying our best to adhere to The council and the guidelines and I asked you all to work with us We're still very excited about trying to build in this area. Of course it suits our needs which is very desperate at this point being that we are renting and Ever source has basically given us this time in which to work out where we're going to be we purchase this property in 2013 with the hopes and with the knowledge of knowing it's a historic area So we are trying to work with you and I just would ask that as a place that also regards history We are 43 years old. We are the oldest not just in the state But we might be the oldest Cable access station in the nation that is still operating and I ask you to regard that history as you consider What council and guidance to give us? I think that's very important and the service that we of course bring to the community so again, I'm asking you to look at your bylaws and We are the very first as I understand a new construction and just simply work with us and be patient Yeah, thank you. We appreciate that Thank you Okay, so Yes, so I want to thank everyone for their comments and We will continue. I think we probably start the next meeting if We'll have other of other cases of other cases So I would say we can still start at 445 just I think we're gonna have two or three other cases that that night This is on September 9th. So we'll schedule again for 445 Could we confirm with mr. Gillan that that the 9th is feasible or that that possibly you want more time? Sure. Yeah, and even if you don't have new drawings, we would still You know if you don't have new information We would continue this meeting which if there's in terms of public comment and then we haven't had a chance to deliberate among ourselves So I do have to ask this for point of order if the meeting is continuing. Do we adjourn or not? You know, we need a motion to continue. You need a motion to continue. Okay Hey all in favor, okay. Yeah, so thank you all Thank you for coming in you are welcome to submit any comments to Nate Malloy between now and the next meeting on September 9th. Thank you