 Hey, so we have the pleasure of speaking with Deirdre Imus, president and founder of the Deirdre Imus Environmental Health Center at Hackensack University Medical Center. She's also the co-founder, co-director of the once Imus cattle ranch for Kids with Cancer. Deirdre, thank you for being here and taking the time out from sunny Texas to talk to us all the way out here in New York. Yeah, thanks, Tracy. So just so people who are listening know, we already had the pleasure of going to the center. It was so cool and so amazing. Your team there is so passionate about what you're doing. But you got to step back for us and tell us, how did this idea even start? This whole notion of greening the cleaning, your cleaning products, changing the world. How did it start? It started with working with all these children that have cancer and going back to my husband raising money for the Tomorrow's Children's Fund, which is an amazing organization at Hackensack University Medical Center that helps all these families and children that are diagnosed with cancer. And by working with these families and these children, I started to notice several things and also what causes cancer, because we do focus in this country on after someone gets cancer, what do we do, but not the root cause or prevention. And being in the hospital and thinking about all these kids that came to our ranch, which we started in 1998, my husband and I founded the Imus Caller Ranch for Kids with Cancer. And there, back in 1998, we were ahead of the curve with knowing that we wanted to eliminate any toxins possible. I just was very interested and really educated myself on a lot of those topics with pesticides and cleaning products and baby products, et cetera, the knowledge that I had back then, because so much has happened since then that we know a lot more. But you were kind of on the forefront of this. Did something happen? Did your son, Wyatt, and we're talking so everyone knows that your husband is Don Imus. Imus in the morning radio show, 770 WABC. But did Wyatt get sick? And you say, what the heck? Or did he have allergies? What was the catalyst that made you even get interested in this stuff? No. And thank God, that's not what happened. And yes, that usually is the story when someone finds an organization or does something. It really was just being aware and then seeing and working with the Tomorrow's Children's Fund and asking myself questions. And one of them was, they're in this hospital environment. Are hospitals, places of healing, are there physical environments, places that they can heal? And I quickly found out that no, they weren't. And this is all hospitals. It's the way they're set up. Frankly, no one had really thought about it. And so I asked about cleaning products, because I was already using non-toxic, which I call green now, that word green wasn't used back then. And I put together a bunch of research about hospital environments and the cleaning products they use. And of course, in hospitals, because of infectious diseases and all the different patients and transfer of different things and how easy it is to spread disease, infections, viruses, et cetera, pathogens, do we really have to be using all those standard toxic cleaning agents that we've been using all these years, especially since the Industrial Revolution with all the chlorine bleaches and really toxic substances that are used in hospitals. And so I asked that question first, and I started doing my homework. And then I presented it really to Hack and Sack with the idea. My idea was, what if we could implement non-toxic or green products into hospitals? Wouldn't that be the highest level in our society to set an example for everyone in their home, businesses, schools, et cetera? If hospitals were saying, yes, it's right, and it's healthy to use these green products, but the key is, do they work as well? So we did this whole evaluation, we had them tested by the Allergy and Immunology Department as well as third-party testing. And of course, now this is 16 years ago or more, 17 years ago, back in 2000, we started this, or I started this with the hospital. And we found that the green products were just as effective and sometimes even better. They worked as well, if not better. And we initially saw a cost reduction. So of course, anyone, bottom line numbers, budget numbers, that's always important for any business. And as soon as we saw that we were willing, we were able to save the hospital money too. So that's where the beginning of the genesis of which we called and we now have the greening, the cleaning program. And that started in 2001, spring of 2001, where we successfully implemented the entire campus at Hackensack. And they were the first. But did you march into, so Bob Garrett was the president at the time, right? Did you like just? I was the president at the time, John. And Bob Garrett was the VP though. And their decision to, and I, Bob Garrett is the president and CEO and co-CEO now, because now they've merged with Meridian Health Systems. So it's an even larger system in hospital. But they, from day one, when I went in and presented the information, totally understood and it totally made common sense. And if we can prove all this, then of course, then it's safe to implement. And that's really the beginnings. I mean, thank God we had leaders. And Bob Garrett's an incredible leader. And as you can see now, there's many, we've won practice green health, you know, for three or four years in a row now, I think it's three years in a row. One of the greenest hospitals, because we've now continued and built an entire environmental health center. And we're unique too, because we're the, one of the first hospital based programs to actually do this, which is very hard to do in a hospital. So out of the greening and the cleaning program came the Deirdre Imus Environmental Health Center. And it was originally called the Deirdre Imus Environmental Pediatric Oncology Center because we're focused specifically just on children with cancer, our mission. But then we realized there are, we have the sickest generation. We have so many children that are so sick with, you know, all these other things that are epidemic too. So, we expanded, but the mission stays the same from day one. And our mission is to identify control and ultimately prevent environmental toxins that may cause our children to be sick. So it just fundamentally makes sense. And how we apply that is through our education system, educational practices, our implementation, starting with greening and the cleaning, which we're successfully doing, not only in our own hospital, but in hundreds of other facilities like hospitals, businesses, schools, restaurants, you name it, you know, any public building, pretty much. And through our research as well. And that's really where it started. And it started with having strong leadership, seeing that vision that Bob Garrett sees and continues to see and how our environmental health center at the hospital is so successful. But I think it's a testament to you too, because look, you got in the door, right? Because of what you and your husband were doing with these kids to begin with. And you use that to your benefit. Because people could be sitting at home saying, I say all the time, sometimes like, you're in restaurants and you feel like things are blowing at you and you come out and you're sick and people don't care, but they listen somehow. I mean, you made them listen. And that's a huge testament to you. Thank you. Again, I ask, you know, be better. People were proactive too. I do advocate that. Don't wait till a family member gets sick or something happens. Cause everyone knows someone around them. Unfortunately now that does have cancer or, you know, ADD, ADHD, autism, obsessive compulsive behavior, Tourette syndrome, you know, seizures now, obesity, diabetes. These are all, the state of our children's health is what I call it. That's all the umbrella. Under the umbrella of where we are with our children. And this truly is the sickest generation because of our modern society really, the way we live and the toxins from everything from our food, our air, our soil, the way we grow food, the way we take care of our land and a lot in everyday products that we buy and bring into our home the way we build our homes and also through medicine, you know, where our children are literally being inundated and bombarded with these toxins, like constant hits, you know, and there comes a tipping point with everyone and it's not a one size fits all. And unfortunately that's the direction of where the solutions have been with medicine is, you know, a one size fits all and it really isn't. And the more I feel our center can focus on our mission with identifying those factors and then doing something about it, whether it's research or implementing a program, that's where I think it's successful because then we prevent our children from being exposed. And I wanna talk like what companies have done and what they're doing. Like we'll talk big picture towards the end but back to the center and the research that you're doing like you put serious white papers out with serious research. I mean, when I was there, there was this chalkboard and I felt like I was in, sorry, a whiteboard and I felt like I was back in physics class. And God bless the delightful young woman who tried to explain it all to me but there's some serious research going on. Can you give us an overview of what you're looking at over there? Yes, and that's really important to us. Erin and I, it was probably Erin and I at our center. She was brilliant. She's our, she is, she's brilliant. She's coordinated and been part of and published all of the research that we've done to date at our center. And it's been significant going back to something as simple as headlice, Tracy. I don't know if your kids ever got it and people don't wanna talk about it. But- My God, my son just had it like six months ago. He said he's almost 17. I want it to die. Well, see it's common. Six to 12 million children in this country get headlights. And it's not a fun or, you know, topic to talk about. And I don't know if you wanna reveal what treatments you did, but they're all toxic pretty much what the doctors recommend and what's out there on the shelves. They're very toxic. They're basically saponified pesticides and insecticides that you shampoo in your kid's head. And that is not good at all. I mean, it's an exposure that is more toxic and more harmful than the lice itself. And that doesn't make sense, right? Right. So potentially those have led to problems with children using these, you know, products. So we did a study that's peer-reviewed publish study that now we're trying to implement throughout all the pediatrics and get into something called the Red Book even, which is what pediatricians look at when they look for different remedies for things. It's kind of a protocol that they go by pretty much. And to get all those toxic products out, we showed with our study that you don't have to use those toxins in the product. We were actually using a product and it's completely benign and non-toxic and we proved that it works 100%. So the efficacy was even better than the extremely toxic products. So it's things like that that are like one little thing it seems like, but those, I call them hits, but those hits that your children receive as they're developing and growing, they end up having an impact. Whether ultimately your child has learning impairments or frankly lower IQ. A lot of these things are linked to this whole generation now with lower IQs, learning impairments, you know, the spectrum with Asperger's and autism and dyslexia. I mean, there's a whole spectrum here. And frankly, a lot of those asthma, allergies, they're in epidemic proportions. We've never seen it in any other generation what we're seeing now. And so that's why these things are so important to address and to get, you know, real change made. And that's really what the core of what we're doing. Well, I think the study she was trying to explain to me was about the BPA, the plastics that we use, right? And the BPAs and how harmful they are to women, especially when you're pregnant and things like that. And she even said the smallest little change, like get rid of the plastic water bottles. That's just one little change. It could make a huge difference. And it does. The thing with that though you bring up, and I'm glad you brought that up because that's an interesting thing that's happened. It's BPAs, BPAs, phenol A. It's an estrogen and hormone mimicar in the plastic. It's a chemical that's used. And it's, you know, ubiquitous in our society with all the, you know, food packaging, plastic wrapping, not just baby bottles or plastic bottles, but it's in so many food items and in products you buy for your home and cosmetics and personal care products, et cetera. So yes, we did that study to identify those levels. But what we found too is there are relatives of this chemical, BPA. And we found that even when the BPA was BPA free, you'll see in that whole movement that we helped educate the public about, they've replaced it with other chemicals that we found, and this is what our study was also helpful with, that are just as toxic. So the other part of this, it's important that when we identify a toxin and we're all saying, you know, let's not expose our children to it or we're trying to ban it or we're trying to change away, you know, a company's working because of the chemicals and we know what they're causing. There has to be a reality of an alternative, a healthier alternative. Otherwise, it really defeats the purpose, right? And that's why we go back to greening the cleaning all the time that's so successful because we did replace it with something that is so much healthier and works and is better than saying with the headlights published study that we did. So that's still something that's a dilemma, frankly, with the BBPA and the other, I call them cousins, chemical cousins are related that really affect our children the same way. But it's cause it's like going on a diet and taking out the chocolate cake by adding ice cream, right? It doesn't make, it's ridiculous, right? But at the same time, we're in this society, we're so busy, everyone's running around and the first thing you do is grab the first thing you see off the shelves and nine times out of 10, they're not really great for you. So then does the onus fall on the food companies, the Pepsi's of the world, the McDonald's, do we, it's up to them now. A big part of this is, and I'll say it, big pharma, big agricultural industry, the big chemical industry. And when you say food, the food industry, the food industry has really been hijacked by the agrochemical industry. So for example, if your diet is just grabbing those things in the grocery store and you have to have everyone's busy and they're not organic and they're not GMO free, meaning they're not, you don't want food that's genetically modified, which has glyphosate in it, which is a whole other subject about a chemical that is doing a lot of harm to all of us and our children, those are huge, huge companies that are driving this. And so we're no longer really eating healthy food. You really have to go to the source of eating as like whole food, fruits and vegetables and nuts and grains and seeds and truly look for the ones that are GMO free, non-GMO and organic. It's so important also to support then those farmers that are taking the time to have healthy practices so that we're not, this damages the soil too. There's soil evaporation, the soil has been ruined where there's so many heavy metals and contaminants in our soil that even to try to grow healthy food, it's very, very difficult now. In this country and around the world, because of these, the bigger picture, like you're saying, it's taken over on us. So that's a big part of this is- You make a great point here because like there's many farmers out there that won't grow healthy food because or corn or potatoes or whatever because they can't sell it, right? They're only growing things that they could turn around and I guess sell to the agri industry because at the end of the day, these farmers are, they're struggling to make ends meet. Yeah, and it goes against them. Don't you find it interesting that government will subsidize all the non-organic food, meaning the food that has poison in it and has grown poison? Don't you find that interesting? This all becomes very political. Food is extremely political and people need to wake up to that and really use their voice because in order to protect your children, you need to know this information in order to properly protect them. And that's a big part of it is these big industries are, they spend a fortune in DC with the lobbying companies. The lobby and that lobby is what drives the market. Those companies, those huge companies are the ones that dominate and it makes it very difficult for the organic farmers. But if they're gonna, why are they subsidizing all this? That's not healthy. Why won't you subsidize organic then? If you look at it, the government doesn't do any of those things, you know? So that's another huge issue, but there are big, big companies out there that it's unfortunate because they are really poisoning a generation of children. I'm not even being melodramatic about this. There's a lot of evidence to back all this up. It's counterintuitive though, isn't it? We're in the middle of a healthcare debate. Where our healthcare costs are through the roof and we can't seem to figure the system out. And yet what we should really be thinking about is the future and how we're going to keep kids, right, preventive medicine. I mean, John Scully, former Apple CEO the other day said, he bets that in 10 years no one's drinking soda anymore. I don't know, do you think that's true? Like do you actually think that it's a mindset? Because it's a mindset, isn't it? It is, and what would be his reason? Like what would they be drinking then? Just that soda has become so taboo and that the word is getting out that it's so bad for you. And this is a man who used to work for Pepsi, by the way. Well, I agree with him, by the way. I don't drink soda at all and I don't advocate anyone drinks soda. So I agree, but I have trouble seeing like how that's going to come true because these companies, the big companies like you just mentioned Pepsi and Coca-Cola and the rest of them, they dominate, they're enormous and what they do is then they morph into like they have water, right? But then they have flavored water and it's interesting that whole connection with soda. Not until the 1980s did they start adding the high fructose corn syrup to sodas. That made a huge difference because high fructose corn syrup also has levels of mercury in it and that obviously is extremely harmful. So there's been big changes in pharmaceuticals, vaccines of course, a huge issue. The food chain because of these huge agrochemical companies that are basically poisoning the food chain, this all has an effect and even something as simple as soda, now that you see they have like not only the diet sodas but then they make it appealing where it's zero calories. Well, you gotta look what's in that even. I mean, then they're adding more chemicals is what they're doing, all those fake sugars which are frankly worse. So there are people- How do we combat this? I mean, we could even talk about the EPA and what's happening in DC now today with that. Do you worry about our next generation? I mean, these kids, I almost feel like the odds are stacked against them. Well, and they are when you look at the statistics of one in 60 children have autism and that's one in four boys, four to one boys ratio. Yeah, four to one boys, one in 60. In New Jersey, by the way, it's one in like 40 to 43 have autism. I know. And no one is, you don't see the government and these health leaders speaking out on that. In fact, there's a level of denial about it that you have controversy, well they'll claim that well autism was always there and it doesn't, no, no, no. I mean, I work with way too many organizations with all these families that have a child with autism. It is absolutely devastating. And when you have an epidemic, we know there are no, there's no such thing as a genetic epidemic. This is directly coming from, and you see the numbers where they've grown and where they are with these one in 60 across the board, across the country, that's a safe number to say, and they're much lower even in certain states, state by state, even county by county. There's something very wrong there because that's an environmental connection and there's a lot of denial going on with people at the top in the medical field. But is that, I mean, I'm in Jersey, right? So I mean, now I worry about my future grandchildren because thank God my kids are beautiful and fantastic but so what does that mean then? Does that mean it's the, is it in stuff in the ground? I mean, because then this is an EPA issue, big time, right? Is it in the ground? Is it in the air? How is this happening? Yeah, we all need to come together. It needs to be the EPA, the CDC, the NIH, even the Department of Defense, frankly. It's all connected, all of Washington, frankly, all the Senate and the House. This should be a priority. When you see numbers like that with autism, when you see a steady increase in pediatric cancer, not a decrease, when you see epidemic proportions with diabetes, obesity, ADD, ADHD, and then all prescriptions in the meds that children are put on at a very young age, that is completely abnormal. That to me is not how you treat a child in a healthy way. There's a certain level to me that it's negligence. And so the parents are left with, they have this beautiful child and then they get a diagnosis and then what do they do? And then they're relying on the system and the system, frankly, isn't coming clean and being honest about how they can prevent and not being a denial about some of these statistics and that we should come up with much healthier ways to help these children. And it's just across the board, it is not being done. There's way more damage being done. So what do we do? Like, I've kept you longer than I wanted to, we could talk all day, but what should people be doing? Other than just going to speak to my congressional leaders, which unfortunately feels like it gets me nowhere. What do we do? I know a lot of people think that, but then if you can join or work with an organization or even with our center, we do a lot of that. There's other organizations that are also down there lobbying health organizations, environmental organizations, children's advocates, but on another level, just as a parent, people need to get educated. They really need to take the time so they know the difference. Know about all the toxins or the pros and cons with your or eating an organic diet, first of all, let's start there. I mean, there's many studies done where children that were taken off a diet with quote conventional diet, which is a diet with pesticides, all the fruits and vegetables and all the food grown with pesticides versus that a child put on for several weeks an organic diet, they saw significant improvement in their cognitive skills, their IQ, their learning. That right there, just going and focusing on food says a lot. You can detox your body much healthier if you're much better if you are being exposed, which our children are, they're being inundated by all these. But the other thing is in your home too, use the non-toxic green cleaning products. When you use pest control, which everybody does, use integrative pest management. Don't let them come in and don't buy those cans of all those sprays that we know, they've been around forever, but I'm telling you they do a lot of harm to use integrative, like I use, we're on this ranch here, Tracy. And our imus ranch on 5,000 acres, all those years for 20 years taking care of those kids, completely green, we built it. We're on 5,000 acres with 40 horses and sheep and buffalo and chickens and donkeys and everything. And we've never sprayed any pesticides or insecticides or fungicides. Here in Texas, we're on this ranch here with 30 horses and cattle and everything else. And don't use any pesticides at all. There's no glyphosate being sprayed anywhere. And if we can do it in these environments, and I've done it in New York City and in an urban environment, it can be done and it is done. And people need to start seeing that they can go to our website too, but they should seek it out because the information is there. And start with yourself and start with your family. Like me sitting here, if I weren't, I can't advocate all these things. I'd feel like a phony if I weren't doing that myself. And I am and I've been doing it for years and I try every day, I learn something new every day and I try to make it healthier every day. But those fundamentals have to, it has to start there with the food and the pest control and the cleaning products in your home. And even if you're building a new home, being aware, like you saw the cotton denim insulation at the hospital when we built one of the first green hospitals there on the campus when you walked through there, all that that was green. Well, I implemented that into my homes too. So, you know, there are those things. We kind of paved the way for a lot of that. So, you know, if you're doing that in a hospital, humongous buildings that can't afford to make mistakes like that. And I think that says a lot. That's huge testimony and huge proof. But I think you said it earlier, it's cost effective now. Like it used, there used to be a time when buying organic was more expensive. It's actually not true. I see it myself firsthand. And you mentioned the hospital and people should really go watch the video because everything is recyclable. All the materials are recyclable. That there's denim in the walls that they're using as insulation, right? And the floor planks. And Kyle, I'm gonna say it's actually wrong. They're non-toxic, you know, with low or no VOCs which are volatile organic compounds that are highly toxic. I mean, and then of course our whole food program that we've been working on all these years, really making it healthy, organic, you know, offering more vegetarian plant-based focus, not frying a bunch of food, not junk food. Even our vending machines, which you have them in depth to reality. So you have these vending machines where we were able to switch. I don't know if you saw it, Tracy. Kyle would have maybe shown you but walking me through everything but he got them to switch over to vending machines where it's all healthy snacks. You know, a lot of organic options in the little snacks that you can get from the vending machines rather than all that junk that you usually see. You know, even when you're visiting a hospital or you have a child in the hospital, you know, and that was the first thing I looked at and we looked at at the center was helping and working with a chef to design a menu for the women's and children's hospital that would truly give these children healthy but yummy, you know, like organic waffles, organic buckwheat pancakes with organic syrup and organic blueberries and strawberries. Something as simple as that versus what they would be eating. You know, that's the difference. It's totaled. Oh my God, of course. Not to mention, you have to watch too. We got to see how they make honey right on the premises and our intrepid camera guy went out there and was like in the middle of the bees, it was the coolest thing. All this stuff is fresh and fabulous and we mentioned Kyle Tefori and he actually was named one of the 30 under 30 people to watch in sustainability, which is so cool. And you mentioned that it's part of them, Hackensack is part of the Meridian Health Services now. A bunch of hospitals, Kyle's out there doing them all this way now. Are you guys eventually gonna take this model on the road and say, try to get Columbia and try to get NYU and other hospitals like in the area or around the country to do what you're doing? Yes, yes, we're open to that. I mean, again, our team is small. Bonnie Eskenazi, who I know you talk with, she's been with me pretty much since day one and I'll tell you, she's exceptional and all the initiatives that we've been rolling out over these last 15 years, she's a huge integral part of why we are successful. And we're a small and Aaron, our researcher, like I told you, Aaron Eyde and Kyle of course and Loray and then Jim and Nadine, I don't know if you met them, they're the ones in charge of the greening the cleaning. They're the ones that the business of our greening the cleaning is successful. I credit the two of them, Jim Rocky and Nadine DeBruggio. So, and that's all what's interesting about our model is it's not for profit, of course. We're a 501c3 under the hospital and we're a department in the hospital. And when we implement, that's one way we sustain our center is through our greening the cleaning program. It pays to run all the whole program itself and then to run the center. So we're a small team, but I always say we're small but mighty. So there's nothing frivolous and each person is maximized at the center. They're focused, they're super smart. They're specialists in what they do at the same time and everyone is completely passionate about what they're doing. And it's a handful of people directly in the center that of course we have, we work with lots of people in the hospital. So that's another thing that, we're not this huge center with this huge budget and this huge, all of these people that you need. And it shows you too, I think by example that you can be that change. You are, you're right. You're a small, little, mighty group, but you are making a lot of noise and a lot of people are listening. Georgia, before I let you go, can you tell us like the website and like where everyone can come to buy products and to get more information? Yes, our website is environment, I'm sorry, imisenvironmentalhelp.org. So it's imis, my name, imisenvironmentalhealth.org. Everything is there. You can get the products there. You can get tons of information there. It comes back up as soon as you Google in imis, you'll see it, it'll come right up imisenvironmentalhealth.org. And then yeah, you're right. It has everything there. It's easy to navigate our website. We have a whole thing with all the latest studies and just the latest articles out. That's a fun part where you just click on that like the green news of the day and we constantly have keep parents and educators up to date on all the different articles that are out there about everything to do with children's health and the environment. Everything from vaccines to food to pesticides to how to build a better green home so your kids can be raised in a healthy environment, which all of those things are really important. But it's actually not that hard Tracy. Nowadays it's not, right? Because it is much harder when I did it because when we founded the ranch I was pregnant with white in 1998. In fact, I feel like he inspired us to do all this really. But it's much easier now because there is more access and there's more available to make that change happen. And like you were saying, the cost is there, it's not. And that's one thing I wanna make a note of. When you say, oh, people go on organics more, it's more to do this or that and they complain and I'm thinking, no, it's not. What's more expensive is if God forbid your child gets sick or has a diagnosis, that's forever a huge expense. So you gotta weigh that, doesn't it make sense? It's preventative, you're right. It's a great, great way to look at it. I hope everybody goes and checks out the site at least by the cleaning products do something. And I think you made the best point is that it just starts at home, starts small. And if you start to raise people who believe this way, then it actually does change the mindset because when they get out into the world, that's the way they'll think and then hopefully they'll spread the good word. Yeah, by example, always. You're great. Thank you so much for taking the time. It's so good to see you. Tracy, thank you so much. Thank you, this is a privilege to be able to do this. I look forward to seeing it, yeah. It was great, thank you so much. Thank you.