 Hello everyone, and welcome to the program, Agriculture on the Move. I am Philip Sydney, your host. Today with me is Mr. Pires Haines, who is the Acting Assistant Chief Forest Officer. That's a long, long designation, and he's attached to the Department of Forestry and of course in the Ministry of Agriculture. Welcome to the program, Mr. Haines. Thank you very much, Mr. Sydney. I appreciate the opportunity to be here. Great, thank you. Mr. Haines, tell us who you are. Who is Mr. Haines? Okay, so as you've said, currently I serve in the capacity of Acting Assistant Chief Forestry Officer with responsibility for wildlife management as one of my key designations. Okay. So, tell us what is wildlife management and conservation? Right. So, simply put, we could say that wildlife management in its true essence is really the, it's an art and also the science of manipulating and also maintaining wildlife habitat and the population and balancing the needs of wildlife with the needs of people. Okay, so it's more or less trying to find a balance between nature and humans. So humans, you know, we live in a world that is filled with nature and wildlife is part of it. So now we have to try and maintain a certain balance, you know, or more or less a coexistence between animals and humans because believe it or not, human beings need those, we need the biodiversity. In order for us to survive. So how are you getting involved in that? Was it a liking? Because a number of people out there who have nothing to do with wildlife, especially with those animals that can probably cause harm. So how are you getting involved in this? Yes, well, I work in forestry. Okay, forestry. So forestry more or less is the agency of government that is responsible for managing, conserving and also protecting wildlife. And, but of course I was given the duty of wildlife officer back in 2014 and I have been involved in the work of wildlife management from since. And also, I mean, I have gone through, you know, the study of wildlife in some of my courses at school, you know, university and so on. So really and truly it just became my portfolio really at Forestry. At least something that you like? Well, yes, I mean, we enjoy the work of wildlife. In fact, the work of wildlife in St. Lucia takes us all around the country. It is not one that is, but that will keep you, you know, stationed at one place or in an office. So you have to go to various communities. You have to go to various forest types and also different habitats, meet different people and so on. And so it's diverse. And, you know, it's also very dynamic. So it's exciting indeed. So when you talk about conservation, let us look less the species that you are concerned about. Let us start with the birds. What is so important as far as wildlife is concerned with birds and the contribution to the biodiversity? Right. So you asked the question, which, more or less, which classes are most important? Generally, I mean, all our biodiversity in St. Lucia is important. Traditionally, when we look at the typical wildlife that we manage in St. Lucia, we are looking at classes of wildlife like, you know, the birds, the reptiles, mammals, amphibians. We have also beetles, even flies, morphs and butterflies. So we have a huge array of these different classes. And amazingly, even if St. Lucia is a small island state, in the eastern Caribbean, we have one of the highest levels of endemic fauna within the eastern Caribbean. So we have an impressively high number of endemic species of birds in particular and reptiles. But of course, I mean, all of these that I mentioned, the avi fauna, the reptiles and so on, and the others, they just help to condition and they just help to enhance the ecosystem functioning and, you know, help to maintain nature, the balance in nature and so on. So believe it or not, wildlife play, in fact, they play a very important and a key role in our very existence, really. So we may want to discount their importance, but then they are actually very important. Let's go back to the birds. What do you think is really important role the birds play? I mean, really? Right. So we have different types of birds, really. Let me just say that St. Lucia has five endemic bird species. And by endemic, I mean, these are creatures that really naturally exist all in St. Lucia. So you wouldn't find these species in other areas in the world existing naturally in the wild, but St. Lucia, so it's endemic to us. It belongs to us. We have five that are endemic and we have 13 that are endemic subspecies. So they're just a lower level, a subgroup of a species. So we have five endemic and 13 endemic subspecies. Birds play a key role in our existence, biodiversity in the ecological processes in nature. For example, some birds help with pollination. For example, the hummingbirds, they help with pollination. Other birds help in nutrient cycling. For example, they would eat in one spot and defecate in other spots and so on. So they help with the whole ecological process. Propagation. I mean, they just form part of the whole framework of both flora and fauna. Now, not only do they play a very key role in the ecology and the different ecological processes, they also play a very key role in our cultural values and also our economy. Because, of course, tourists come here for bird watching and bird watching is a key feature in ecotourism and so on. And so, persons would actually earn or gain a livelihood by bird watching tours and so on. So, I mean, not only birds but in our reptiles and all the others, they play a key role in this whole process. It enhances our economic value, our cultural value and also our ecological processes. I mean, yes, of course, as a little boy, we went hunting birds using catapults and using daisy guns and whatever it is. Is there an open season or a closed season for the hunting of birds in St. Lucia? Okay, well, the whole process of managing reptiles, in fact, managing wildlife generally in St. Lucia is guided by the St. Lucia Wildlife Protection Act. So, we have a piece of legislation, the St. Lucia Wildlife Protection Act that was more or less instituted in 1980. So, from 1980, we have this piece of legislation. Now, back in the days, you know, persons would have gone out and used catapults and all the devices in the forest yourself. And, you know, they would hunt and do all kinds of things. But this has changed, really. So, you would actually need a permit to be able to undertake such activities. And so, we would have to be guided by the Wildlife Protection Act. Animals in the Wildlife Protection Act are subdivided into groups. So, you have fully protected wildlife under Schedule 1, you have partially protected wildlife under Schedule 2, and then you have unprotected wildlife in Schedule 3. And currently, we more or less have a moratorium on the hunting. But then, there is also a need for us to do some legislative review as it relates to the Wildlife Act. So, we can update it so we can, you know, make it more modern. And, you know, we could help it to, we could more or less adopt it to suit our current needs. Okay, so the aspect of an open and a closed season, it's already there for partially protected wildlife. And so, we would have to, you know, re-institute it, you know, so that we could have, you know, help support livelihoods and we could help, you know, manage some of our animals and so on. So, there are specific species of birds that can be hunted for? If and when the season is open, is it something that is a public knowledge? The majority of our birds are listed as protected wildlife. So, the majority of them are listed on the Schedule 1, the vast majority of them. But provisions could be made for even case, for instance, if we have a certain species of bird that is, you know, you know, the population is extremely large and it's out of control and so on. Then provisions could be made for a certain approach for management in that regard. So, I know there are some time during the year, your migration of birds are coming in this country. Can they be hunted? I mean, I know there are ducks coming in, am I right? Yes, so we have birds coming in from North America more or less. During the winter times, you know, they escape the winter and they come here, they forage, you know, they. And these birds, these are, well, we refer to them as migratory bird species. But of course, they would form part of the AV fauna of St. Lucia. They would be part of the birds that actually use St. Lucia as, you know, as part of their range as a habitat. Okay. So, we have birds like, you know, the teals, like orange, sorry, we have blue-winged teals, we have the green-winged teals. We have ducks and so on, especially coming down at the bright pond and so on. And in order for persons to, it is not legal for persons to just go ahead and hunt these birds. Okay. They would need a permit from forestry in order to do so. Okay. Okay. Because, I mean, those birds are coming here for a specific reason. They are coming here to escape the winter. They are coming here to forage. Some other countries, you know, they actually reproduce and so on. So, if you were to go about hunting those birds indiscriminately, then we more or less, you know, destroy the species. Okay. I know there are quite a few other animals that you will speak about as far as hunting is concerned, as far as those animals that are not supposed to be hunted, not supposed to be killed, but we'll do for our first break. You're watching agriculture in the move. Stay tuned. We'll be back soon. Hey, but that was... Bio means life. Biodiversity is a variety of life all around us. All plants, animals, and microbes, and the places where they live. We need to protect biodiversity so that we can continue to enjoy all the resources it provides. Fresh air, clean water, food, clothing, shelter, and recreation. Biosafety ensures that we protect biodiversity against any negative impacts of GMOs while using it safely for national development. For more information on the biosafety project and how you can be involved, call 451-8746 or 722-9252. Log on to lc.biosafetycleringhouse.net or join the mailing list, slubiosafety, at govt.lc. Welcome back to the program, agriculture in the move, and with me is Mr. Paz Jens from the Department of Forestry. Paz, there are so many other species that we should be discussing, but one of the main ones I think that has come to the fore recently are the reptiles. I see people posting a number of reptiles, the non-venomous ones and others. So tell us about the various types of reptiles we have in St. Lucia. Okay, so in St. Lucia we have approximately 19 different species of reptiles, believe it or not. Seven of these reptiles are endemic and five are endemic subspecies. So we have more than 12 of our reptiles that are endemic. So in terms of the different classes, we have anoles, like those three lizards. We have geckos, we have ground lizards, like in the case of the whiptail lizards and the womb lizard. We also have iguanas and we have the snakes. Okay, so the ones that seem to be causing most fear to the public more or less are the snakes. Okay, so we have four different snakes species. We have the St. Lucia boa or the tetria, which is the largest snake that we have on island. Well, the boas typically grow up to about eight feet long on average. Then we have the second largest, which is the fedelus. And I must say that the fedelus is the only venomous snake that we have on island. And then we have the St. Lucia racer. And the St. Lucia racer is the snake that you find. It is only found on Maria Major in Vifor. That is the only place in the world where you go to find a snake. It is, in fact, labeled as the rarest snake in the world. And then we have the Thread Snake, which is a very small snake. It is the second smallest snake in the world. And it is more or less the size of an earthworm. Okay, now the majority of these reptiles, believe it or not, we find them on Maria Major. That is why Maria Major is such, in fact, the Maria Islands. That is why they are of such great importance for biodiversity conservation. In fact, we even have some reptiles that are endemic even to Maria Islands. Like in the case of the St. Lucia pygmy gecko. St. Lucia racer as well. I mean, initially you'd have found a racer on the mainland, but because of the introduction of invasive predators, like for example the mongoose and so on, we have a lot of them. The racers on the mainland were more or less extinct or extirpated. And now they're only on Maria Major. What are the challenges of conservation of these reptiles? Right, so, I mean, the challenges are many. The list is long. But if we had to prioritize, if you would ask me which are the biggest threats or the challenges that we face with regards to conservation of reptiles in particular and generally wildlife on a whole in St. Lucia. The number one species, in fact, the number one factor I'd say would be the invasive alien species. Okay, and by this I mean these are exotic animals. Animals that do not naturally exist in St. Lucia. They were more or less introduced for one reason or the other. And with regards to reptiles, invasive predators play a very, very, very devastating role as it relates to the loss of our reptiles. So we find that there are a number of predators that actually attack our local reptiles. For example, you have the first one I'd say is a mongoose. Mongoose is a really formidable predator that really attacks iguanas, it attacks even baby snakes and so on, lizards, whatever mongooses get, they will eat. In fact, mongooses are implicated for the loss of the St. Lucia racer on the mainland because we initially had racers on St. Lucia's mainland. And because of the introduction of mongooses, you know, then they are confined to Maria. Apart from mongooses, we have rats. Okay, rats also can devastate our reptiles, in particular, birds and so on. And this is why on the offshore islands like Maria Island, Praline Island, Rat Island, we have established a biosecurity mechanism where we have bitstations that actually do three functions. They would actually prevent the entry of rats and so on onto these offshore islands and they would actually do eradication one time. So we have bit that will take care of any rats that would come on these offshore islands. So going back to the threats, so apart from mongooses and the rats, then we have a lot of problems with stray dogs, stray dogs and cats, especially within this St. Lucia iguana habitat. So stray dogs, they actually attack the female iguanas when they come to nest because they nest in the sand on the beaches, like for example the beaches on the northeast coast and so on. And so even before the iguana lays its egg or burrow into its nest, the dogs would attack and kill it. And so generations of iguanas have been lost. We lose a lot of genetic diversity in that way. Cats as well do the same. Cats would eat lizards, they would eat the baby iguanas. And so we have to control these invasive species. So I've mentioned the mongooses, the rats, the cats, the dogs. And we have a number of others. We have feral pigs as well. And so in fact these are some of the major challenges that we face. The other major challenge apart from the invasive species and the predation is one of habitat displacement. Also you have the threat of hybridization. For example, we have the green iguana that is an invasive species in the Souffre Basin. That green iguana can compete with our native St. Lucia iguana. And they could even cause hybridization because if you have the invasive green iguana mating with the St. Lucia iguana you have a hybrid and that would change the genes and change the whole species. And we don't want that because that has implications for conservation, for funding and so on. I notice, well history correct me if I'm wrong, they brought in the mongols to take care of the snakes. But if you notice the population of snakes, especially the venomous one, is increasing. So is that so? And if it is so, I also know maybe again you can guide me in that direction. Some years ago in our books, the laws, you could go in and kill a snake and of course you bring the head to the police station and you are compensated. Where is that law now and whether in fact there is a prolification of snakes on island? Right, so with regards to the introduction of those mongols, those mongols as well, these invasive species were introduced during the times of the transatlantic slave trade. The Europeans brought these in. They thought that the mongols would have taken care of the snakes. Currently we have not done any survey, population survey to really ascertain or determine the true population of the St. Lucia fedelus or even the boa. It is something that we are yet to do. We need to get down to the true. Because once we may be seeing that there are increased sightings of either the boa or the fedelus, then there may be factors within the habitat that might be causing that. And we need to do the research to determine whether it is as a result of a population increase or is it because of something else. The reason why I am saying that is because in our forests we have feral pigs and those feral pigs are known to predate or eat snakes. So even if they were to get a fedelus they would eat, if they were to get a boa they would also eat and so on. And so we find that in areas within the forest reserve where we see the presence or we see signs of feral pigs, we had to get snakes there. So that could be one of the factors that causes the snakes to go into the forest reserve then they are pushed out in the periphery. And as a result you might see them more in the communities and so on. Also going back to your question, the snakes in particular, like in the case of the fedelus, as I have said we have not really done much of the research into the population. But currently the fedelus is listed as unprotected wildlife. The fedelus by law, based on our law it is not regarded as a protected species. All the other snakes like the boa is protected, the racer is protected, the thread snake is also protected. And back in the day before we knew more and so on or before we were perhaps less sensitive to conservation, then yes there was this bounty that was placed on the head of the fedelus. So cousins would be paid a few cents. So is that still in our books? The books more or less need to be updated or amended. That is why I am saying that there is a call for legislative review. I mean that thing is so archaic now because just a few cents. I am not quite sure how much in particular but it is only a few cents for that purpose. So as it stands the fedelus is still listed as unprotected wildlife. And it is the only venomous snake that we have. In terms of public sensitization, in terms of knowing the difference, and you have a container there. How do you know the difference between the thread snake and the venomous snake? Right, so as I have said the thread snake and the fedelus, there are two biggest snakes that we have. The thread snake is the biggest one and the fedelus is the second biggest. There are three criteria that I would say we could use to broadly distinguish between one from the other. Looking at the head features on both the fedelus and the boa. Looking at the general coloration of the skin and the skin pattern is another one. And the other key one is the tail, the tail features. So looking at the head, the head of the fedelus is more or less rectangular. And it resembles that of a spear. That is why they call it a spear. It is more like a lance head. And then the boa, the head of the boa is more resembling that of a dog head. That is why they call it a tetria. In terms of time, can you show us? Yes, and in the skin pattern the boa has those black and the brown. And then the fedelus has more or less one full color on the skin. And then the scales on the fedelus are rougher. So the fedelus skin seems to be a rougher skin. And the tail in particular I'm going to show you. The fedelus still resembles that of a rat tail. It is thin like a rat, but that of the boa is more or less tippering. So it tippers. I can show you. This was a boa that we rescued this morning in the Denui area. It doesn't stand up too much. Right. So the boa, I mean, it would hiss like this. I mean, more or less because it feels threatened, it feels unprotected. So let me just show you the skin features. I can see it from there. Right. So you could more or less see the tail of the boa. The tail of the boa, it just tippers. But that of the fedelus is different. The fedelus has a thin tail just like that of a rat. And you could see the skin pattern of the boa. It has blackish and brownish coloration. Brownish coloration. And the skin seems to be smooth. But in the fedelus, it's different. The fedelus seems to have a, well, it has more or less a brownish color all over. And the skin seems to be rougher. Beautiful. On the fedelus. Yep. And if you look at the head. Yeah, it looks like a dogged. If you look at the head there. Well, there you have it, people. The boa, as it relates, and of course the difference, we didn't have the fedelus because I think it's a bit difficult to bring the fedelus. Yeah, the fedelus is more challenging. It's more challenging to manage. The fedelus is venomous. So you have to have more stringent protocols to have the fedelus here. Any final words from you as we close? Right. So basically, I just would like to emphasize the importance of our biodiversity, our wildlife in St. Lucia. We have some very unique wildlife in St. Lucia as it relates to reptiles and birds. It's the best for research from all agencies, international agencies all over the place. And so it would be important that we learn to appreciate our wildlife and also to learn more about them. We would have to educate our public more about our wildlife so that they can better understand the wildlife and by so doing they can better coexist in order for us to have a higher and a better quality of life. Thank you, Mr. Piles-Hills. I'm hoping that we'll continue to maintain and to ensure that there can be this coexistence between human beings and our animals on the floor. Thank you for being here. You're welcome. You've been watching Agriculture on the Move. Thank you for viewing the program. And remember, agriculture is our business. Stay tuned. Agriculture on the Move. Agriculture on the Move. Agriculture on the Move. Agriculture on the Move. Agriculture on the Move. Agriculture on the Move. Agriculture on the Move. Agriculture on the Move. Agriculture on the Move. Agriculture on the Move. Agriculture on the Move. Agriculture on the Move.