 Welcome back. You're watching the breakfast on plus TV Africa is our mindset Monday edition and it's time for a very first hot topic and today We'll be taking a look at world press freedom day Our guest is Nick Agulay public affairs analyst resident in the UK. Hello, Nick Good morning, you're welcome Nick. How is King Charles the third? King Charles the third is Already two days into his official Coronation and yesterday they had a mega party Mega musical concert at which our owner Tewa Savage Also performed so today is Is a public holiday in the UK? They call it a bank holiday day. So today is a bank holiday day here to celebrate the correlation So a lot of communities has street parties yesterday Today will be a day of rest and for others going out visiting as part of the coronation So yes, it's going well and Nigirasti was savage represented as wearing that beautiful green colored dress and sing it in Euro bar as well Exactly making a statement. I think making a strong SLA where I love I love the mixture of the the music she brought on but she's well-talented I mean the Nigeria sees these full of talent. There's so much abundance of talent be it in sports be it in music Be it in the literature We just need to unlock these things for for the world to see how much God has blessed us All right, let's go back to our main hot topic, which is the world press freedom day It's 30 years since the United Nations designated me third world press freedom day And before we go into looking at the state of press freedom around the world Let's start with Nigeria charity begins at home. Nigeria has been ranked 123rd out of 288 as for 2023 when it comes to press freedom day, well a press freedom in the country How do you respond to this? to be honest I I really think that that ranking is generous because If we see what's been happening in recent times when the Nigerian forecasting Commission we just charge prosecute convict and Fine broadcast organizations or media houses without even giving them room to defend themselves You realize that the media in Nigeria Is not as free as what I wanted it to be. I mean granted that we've made progress I know that in the days of the military junta It was possible that even as I am on this live TV now There will be certain things that I will say or will be discussed and Security operatives can actually come and surround post TV And be ready to pick me up That was what we used to see during the military junta days. So that now is not there we have A liberalization that took place in the In the media world because before before now Newspapers radio stations TV stations were all owned by the government So it came to a point where This was liberalized Making it possible for the private sector to come in and all media houses And now the the kind of things that we witness during the military era are also not happening But we're not there. We're not yet there. Give me the activities of the Nigerian broadcast broadcasting commission give me the activities of the president minister For information you can see that there is a lot of intolerance That is existing within the government circles They don't want to hear alternative views Alternative views are taking to be a tax on the government. And so there is still work to be done there is still room to allow the press to Actually carry out their duties perform their functions as the fourth estate of the REM in Nigeria No, according to Reporters without borders. That's the media watchdog Nigeria is the worst one of the worst the most difficult countries in West Africa for the press And that's despite the fact that section 22 of the 1999 constitution as amended, you know Empowers the media to hold government accountable to the people without any Incumbent what does that say about our practice and of you know of Democracy in this part of the world and the respect that we have for our constitution the report To me it's a work of course to us that we need to improve We need to improve because Nigeria Nigeria's democracy Will not develop if we don't allow the press to do their work you see and I tell people that This current situation where our young people Are jackpot from Nigeria to go elsewhere They are actually not jackpot to leave Nigeria and go and be recipients of qualitative education go head care 24-7 electricity guru security and all of that. It's not what they're actually going to get what they are going to get is a democracy that has been allowed to work and If our own democracy is also allowed to work We will get these things that our young people are running to go and get in foreign lands in Nigeria and even much more you know, so Democracy will only thrive if there is freedom of the press and if there is freedom of expression Even by the citizens because you see even here in the United Kingdom where I am You will discover that the democracy is participatory the the politicians seek for votes from the citizens and They make promises to the citizens when they are seeking for those votes And when the citizens give them the votes and they become elected and they come into government The citizens are company the politicians through the governance process You know, the citizens are voicing out either by writing letters to their MPs writing to their Counselors writing to ministers in government writing to the prime minister himself the people Demonstrating on the streets. There is no day that you're not going to have People who are protesting in parliament square, which is the seat of government and the press Is allowed to do his work the press. In fact, yesterday. I was watching the BBC Which is the government owns television station here with my wife and the BBC After talking about the coronation and all of that, they now started to talk about how the police arrested those who wanted to go and carry placards and Demonstrates Against the king because they are not members of the king and they allowed the the people The the Republicans those who are protesting to come on BBC and lay their points And I told my wife that this is going to be impossible for NTA to do in Nigeria For NTA to give this kind of freedom to people who are protesting against the government To come on on life and be making their points So this is this are the situations that if we don't put politicians fit to the fire There's no way they are going to deliver good confidence. I tell people that if Joe Biden today Or Sooner here in the UK believe that they can do something and get away with it. They can do it as leaders They can do it. The only reason that they fear to do it is because of the repercussions And those repercussions are led by the press When the minister does if I'm not even a minister prime ministers have been taken down here in the UK even in recent times including Leastrous including Boris Johnson They have been taken down by the press Because the press are the ones that leads the protest and the people follow And the prime ministers know that look if I don't go down then my party is going to go down with me This is what develops democracy. This is what makes democracy The democracy thrives on finance on setting pillars And when those pillars are not there no matter how we try we're not going to get it right And of course one of the pillars is press freedom Then one of the pillars is a freedom of expression by citizens Just like a letter as the sanctity of the electoral law an independent judiciary an independent legislature And the pillars that make democracy to thrive if we don't have them in Nigeria Then our hope that we are going to develop will always remain a pipe dream Well, seven journalists have been killed this year and In 2022 55 journalists and four media workers were killed 568 journalists and media workers are currently in prison This is a very harsh terrain for workers Journalists media people in Nigeria here the Nigerian press organization recently inaugurated the national media complaints commission How far do you think they can go with this ombudsman that they have set up in the wake of this hostility against media practitioners in Nigeria It is a good development to have the ombudsman But uh, when I look at the the the the the setup The ombudsman comes after An event where press freedom is abused happens Which is okay But that is that is reactive I think there has to be efforts to be proactive meaning to stop The abuse of threat of a of a press freedom in the first place And that is what the incoming government Have to set up the incoming government should Should stop this intolerance for opposing views in Nigeria. They should give us a fresh uh A breath of fresh air Because it is when we give room For everybody to have their voice Including the press including the citizens that our democracy is going to to to to strengthen So we we should we should be more on the on the prevention of the abuse of of of press freedom So in agiria We should we should be intolerant We should be intolerant of those who come against journalists for doing their jobs So I expect the the the incoming government at all levels to say look So long as the press are doing their job without Running against or abusing the rights of another person Let us allow them to do their job Let them and and and the president elect himself is is a media house owner So he should he should know this thing if you do come to the seat of government and then begin to Take take out The same organization for which he is a participant as as an owner So if we have this kind of situation where we say it is okay to have an opposing view It is okay. If we're if there is constructive criticism. It's okay if um A government media house even gives room To an opposition to make their point Then the the the the the the number of cases of journalists being arrested or journalists They are being harassed or even Journalists being arrested detained or even uh paying the supreme price Because they want to inform Nigerians will not arise again But if the situations they arise then the ombudsman approach which they have set up now is also good, but then What will happen decisions By the ombudsman Either decision by the ombudsman are not being respected. They were back to square one So the government has to make a commitment that they are going to respect the decisions of the ombudsman And that is the only way we can make a way forward Everything is what a lot of people say is lacking here And we just said that the president-elect is an owner of a media house Well, maybe after the declaration of assets that we have been asked to declare We will find that uh Specifically as him being the owner of any media house because as at this moment I'm not sure he owns up to that Accepting the fact that he owns a media house that we think he owns But that's a side when we're talking about the press A lot of people Want to define press as the mainstream media, you know, and So many people will argue that press nowadays is more embracing and in fact because of that you cannot separate it from freedom of speech For individuals who may not even be journalists What would be your definition of press this press that needs to have freedom? Does it include the social media or it has to just strictly remain with the main mainstream media? The the freedom of the press Should be equally applicable To the conventional or mainstream media And the new media Which is the social media So everybody should be allowed to have a freedom of expression The only thing is that people have to understand That your freedom stops when somebody asses freedom Or rights are being infringed So the fact that you have access to social media You are on whatsapp or twitter or facebook And you can just make all sorts of saturated allegations or cast aspersions or actually Say anything that you can be heard to account Then then then that that that is for you. You know, people have to be responsible Especially on the on the social media aspect You know, don't propagate A story that you have not verified Don't write don't originate a story That you are framed in your head as many people are doing this these these days. Otherwise Already we have laws against defamation We have seen people being sued you can be sued for defamation So that is an advice that we have to give to those who are using the new media that you need to be responsible You know, we have seen cases where New media like a twitter has actually Come to very good use We saw the case of the ensar's protest was basically mobilized on On the new media, which is a twitter and see the success that it brought Up until miscreants Took over I mean Possibly sponsored by By those who wanted the ensar's protest to to be disrupted. So Everybody should be free To say their mind in a responsible way That it will not infringe On the rights and freedoms of others So this should be applicable to both media Yeah, I'm just I'm just sorry Maureen. I'm just concerned about where we draw the line between this freedom and What you're seeing as taking abusing the freedom Now, let me give you an instance of what really confused me at some point. There's an african president That went to a public function He took the salute and then he peed on himself And this story was carried and a lot of people were at arrested reason That the president was being insulted and in so many countries There are laws that you should never insult the president You should never talk bad about the president no matter what but this thing is something that people could see And the story was carried. It constituted an embarrassment for the president and people were arrested So you are between the devil and the blue sea trying to report something that is true But which someone somewhere is judging as being embarrassing to someone in office So how can we marry the two? How can we balance the two when the truth can be defined as an embarrassment? What do we do? My view is that what happened in that african country is tyranny Yes, it's tyranny because People were reporting an actual event in the way it happened You know, so I don't see anything that is wrong with that you know if If a president have suffered a mishap of Maybe it was out of a medical condition or whatever People it is right for it to be reported listen We don't understand that these leaders That we have are like pilots On a plane that we all have boarded and is airborne How are we not going to be interested? In the conditional way being of the pilot It will only be at your query for you not to be interested If the president didn't want to come into the public space He should have sought the votes of the citizens to become a public figure He should have just remained in his house If it's in his house And he peered on himself in his house Who even bothered that he has peered on himself? Even if somebody goes to put it on on the news For instance, somebody goes to put it on the news now that Nicaragula peered on his house. It's not going to trend Because Nicaragula is not a public figure. It's not it's not a public servant It is a private citizen and our known quantity So people have to understand that once You surrender Your what rather once you step forward To seek the people's vote and become their leader at any level you have surrendered your privacy You have surrendered your privacy Because the people you are leading have to be interested in what is happening to you It's only in Nigeria that you or Or elsewhere in Africa like you are saying that a president Or governor or so we take here And he's being shielded away from the citizens that this person is leading As we see in other democracies when presidents are sick the public is told exactly That they are sick in the uk here Boris Johnson nearly died of covid And all through the time Boris Johnson got covid the citizens were being put abreast what was happening Even when Boris Johnson Was put on life support Because they had to put him to sleep they put him into an induced coma Because if they didn't put him into that induced coma covid would have defeated him So they just put him to sleep and see if he was dead so that his body was shut down and Covid will not be able to to switch off his life All that was being put out in the press and we were seeing his pictures on his hospital bed so that country Needs to work up to the realities of the modern times that whatever happens to leaders people need to know about it So long as people are actually say exactly what happened to the leader So longer what they are saying is the truth So I say that that that that that was an act of tyranny And we also see it in agiria. These are the things that need to change Okay. Well, Nicaragula. Thank you so much for Giving us your perspective and insight to this celebration of world press freedom day We do hope That things will get better for the press and for people who break the stories and give the stories as they are Thank you so much for being a part of the show this morning Thank you and a nice day to you and to our viewers. Thank you Okay, that was nick agule a public affairs analyst talking to us from the uk We'll take a short break when we return. We'll be looking at a second hot topic this time is on mental health. Stay with us