 All right, welcome back. It's time for our very first and only hot topic and the Society of Family Health wants the private sector to partner with them in providing testing to ensure that individuals have access to convenient and confidential testing services that empower them to take control of their health. And I've been joined by Dr. Tuye Mabawondo, Public Health Physician and Publisher, CEO Health Nika. Good morning to you. Good morning, Dr. Tuye Mabawondo. Good morning. Is it appropriate for me to say barricade the salad to you? Oh, well, it's not out of order. That's that the holiday is over already. And we are at work. So you want to tell us more about this roadmap that it's been put in place to facilitate increased private sector involvement? Thank you so much. If we look at our figures, as far as our HIV is concerned, our prevalence rate is about the last sentence on the show that we're about 4.4% prevalence rate of HIV. Over 90 people are still living with the virus and some people have passed the same thing on the day. One of the greatest incentives for the HIV challenge to really beat down HIV and achieve an identity roadmap is actually access to testing, access to testing. Many of your status is the first concrete and most success that I have to deal with HIV. And then, obviously, there are many obstacles to HIV testing, test and form also. The stigma is there that limits the vigour for which it is being tested. Secondly, what are the best kits that are available for them to do those testing? What did they do to make the cost so positive and how did they now escalate their results and get help? The major factor is this. What is the good body doing exactly to help individuals, to build the private sector, to help individuals to do self-testing? Now, the goal, essentially first, is to make people aware that they can do their tests by themselves and know their results. Secondly, is to know the appropriate kit to use to do those tests. Thirdly, is to actually know what makes to do, should it have the positive or negative, what we call interpretation of the test. So it's mostly there, it's most essential, we have to be acquainted because if Nigeria is having about two positions in HIV body worldwide, it means that if this is still with us, we need to do more than what we are doing. So you are saying that HIV is still a pandemic in Nigeria? Yeah, it's a pandemic. Okay, let me clarify. If you say a pandemic, it's good that it still is fair, it's fair to be the nation. If it's a pandemic, it's still a problem worldwide. It's a country, it's also part of the world. People, even the people, do the transmission even as they let us, that's fair. Okay. But for us, we still have the privilege, very high, and that, you know, that even children as well as several other thousand children have it in Nigeria, those are still a big problem that we need to really think about. Yeah, thanks for that correction about between pandemic and entemic. Now you are cutting the private sector. Talk to us about how you are cutting the private sector to synergize with you in making self-testing a reality, because the target here is for people to have convenient and confidential, convenient and confidential testing to be able to, you know, be responsible for their own testing. And the society for family health, which I have never said private health, that we find a way to work with them to ensure that we want to see the private sector investment. What is the idea of investment to develop the road path? One, education, education. Family sectors, either at the level of their own functioning or at the level of their own health or support sector in educating the people about HIV and that part of the system is still involved and we need to do more about it. Secondly, investment. You know, all this indicates to education to provide the access to the population. The first investment, investment in terms of money that can be looked into with the help of the people who support the family health, personal health and education like that, they are there to get to the process of a much-due HIV testing. So, mainly education, investment in which of the kids, you know, these are key areas here, where the sector can be of use. Because at the end of the day, I have the idea, and HIV says that there is a need for business, a need for economy, and a need for the development of the population in the private sector. All right. So, you know, for many people, HIV is, there was a time when all over the place, it was HIV, HIV, HIV and not many people, I'm guessing, not many people understand that it is still a pandemic globally, and that it is such a serous matter, still such a serous matter in Nigeria today. So, is it that enlightenment have reduced in Nigeria, or people have decided to just ignore it and move on with their life? What is really the situation? We would be recognizing money, drugs, investment, to drive the government, to give the best to the government, and to drive the government company. The problem I see in Nigeria is that where you see it with all sorts of, this is actually taking our attention, the need for the government. So, the right to the government is to allow that to continue. Right to the government is right to do, and do this thing with the focus. No flow in Nigeria to complete number two. We think that it's going to play by it, and we think that it's going to happen. Now, part of this will happen with the government, apart from lack of funds to create diseases, we're seeing a lot of corruption. We're talking about HIV by the state system. We're not corruption, but we're driving a lot of humors away from us. We should be able to move further by showing that we're not doing a demand where we're telling ourselves to drive the government. That's why the involvement of public sector is so important. Now, we want to keep talking the talk, we want to keep signaling, we want to keep the life of people the more that HIV is the cause. Because of HIV, HIV could be saved. So, this talk is actually going to be a background and became a big problem. So, for us now, we cannot just leave the thing to chance, because the subject of the violence will be a problem. Good enough, we have jobs. Good enough, we have a proper testing team that are cheaper than before. It's not cause of HIV to run at this age of about 45,000 to 50,000. But now it is free of charge. And then we have to be able to look to that level of sustainability, where we don't have to really depend on the foreign country to give us HIV. What goes to manufacture, we have to put it to the country, and you know, and then, and just to be able to achieve transmission of HIV, 0% of HIV by 2030. So, like we are doing, which is quite right, it's important that media keep the promotion afloat. Okay, talk to us about this self-testing kits. How available is it and how successful have you been with it since you pushed it out, since it was pushed out? Well, self-tested, as the name implies, means that you, as a person, at the comfort of your house, would be right on edge for you to do your tests and you have to do it yourself. Now, first and foremost, what it does is that it eradicates what we call the burden of privacy, privacy, you know, that the privacy to you, once you know that, first and foremost, what you just got, first place. You must have some safe education, because some people can take themselves and become society. They can test themselves and go into depression. So, HIV possibility is not the best set term. That's the first thing we need to do and make it so clear to the people. But that's not about the HIV policy that's right there. So, what will happen is that there's a kit right there, but the things like what we used to do with the sugar level are similar to that thing. There's actually needs to teach people that the kits are available. People need to just understand how to use it and how to adapt it to go and how to then go ahead and interact with the right medical facilities, of the right medical professionals in the next action. But for the kit, they have to be able, what they want to stabilize that. So, the HIV family has two barriers, but for a family partner, it's simply best way to make those kits available to be as free as even the drug for the HIV community. Because by the starting point of using the policies of HIV, once you're ready to start this, you may be able to have some to take and never have some to take. Then, you can then start to think about what will achieve that, you know, transmission. At the point of selling this kit to the people, do they provide counselling? Is there some sort of counselling that precedes this testing? As people are getting the kit, you give them the counselling and then you go home with this, whatever it is, but this is it, this is it, this is it, what, to prepare the advice. Like I said earlier, the computer proper testing is the one that's involved. First of all, you don't call it the council. If you council, this is what it should be. This is something that people do. This is the likely outcome. This is what to do, should we have this or this or that. Now, it's not such, it's not that, after the council was to get before the committee, you go over there, you have to relate to somebody, you call them the result. Now, finally, the importance of the sick, we have to stick with the sick to say, how will sufficiently educate the person on what to do? Okay, then you have to give the person the child to go and do the test. If it's not clear, you don't go through the thing through the person. Because if it's not clear, what's involved and the likely outcome, that's for, okay, it should not be the first thing, you know, they will look in the front of the centre where by take drugs, access to ARV, for that kind of family support, as it is to be. It depends on the negative. You need to keep yourself or yourself negative, it should be on the side. Consistence is at the preventive vector. We do this, we do that, we remain negative. And then, of course, we protect them, and we do them on the window period. It's such a way that if you are negative now, please wait for another three months at the place you are there. It's very, around there. Why wait? I have to do all these preventive, that you don't have to explain yourself on the side. So it's not just calling somebody and finding a test kit to the person without counseling, without proper education, or what the person should do, should the user be piloted, or even the user is piloted, also decisions to take. It's important. You can't just drop tests to somebody, to test it to somebody, to find the person on the lifeguard from... So if there is going to be a pre-counseling before anyone can buy these kits, that means that these kits can only be bought at very special centers then? So what it means essentially is this. As you are involved in the private sector, for instance, close to the your center to become, to the proper education. Okay? That's how the people have a nice number of people that can get to the center. If people provide education, you have counseling, and before they can have any questions, they have a clear understanding. Yeah. They can choose to buy the kits, although they give the kits of that kind to themselves. And they know who to talk to, after the test. Is that... There is some room I have to know to help you in before the picture. If you see somebody having a depression or societal ablation, you don't have to ask them to get to each other. That's important. But if you see that person that actually starts a what it calls societal crisis, or even have an upset or self-harm, and please them. So what it means is that you engage not just about great companies of the education sector, but also about great assets to support that, where they can have proper knowledge and what to do. And then where they can even ask questions, great line, where they can have discussion, what it calls the pressure watch people. So that is how it is done. It's not just that. Because if you look at resources to be able to provide people at all the center, and just to be able to be used, they are part of that you need to do more by providing all of life of counseling center, like physical, private places. I mean, in Kenya, two minutes, two minutes, five minutes, two minutes, two minutes, two minutes. And then people opportunity are there, at least of them too. So these self-testing kits, how readily available are they for people? Where can people find them? Because somebody, I imagine someone is watching right now and wondering, okay, where can one find this kit to buy? I'm sure. Most of the services, you know, we still can actually provide this kit for people to use. And with that, I will get more information from the website, also provide the results. You know, about the idea, about where to get it to go. I'm sure, you know, what to call this, the services. It doesn't be a task to normally to use it in case for you. It would be only free of charge. All right. Talk to us about these unites 95, 95, 95 target by 2030. Exactly. If you can get to ensure that that part of the site would be at least to not have a lot of time to come shop in transmission of the tires by 2030. You say, if it includes initiating part of the people of NPA, some of the people that are supposed to have some of the whereby, you know, 95% of the population have the 95% of the target to move that they are their status and then have that target to send to function. So, only trying to get to get to zero transmission of the tires for one person to remember. And it started being so cruel first and foremost to look at women. In other words, whether to try transmission of the tires and what to do at this point to use the field of pregnancy and delivery to look at women and then take their status to ensure that they get it to be able to do to some kind of sending of the profile of the people that are supposed to be able to to make them to remember whether to try transmission care. And then you still manage to get. That's also a point you're going to be able to change the whether to take and look at whether of the profile of the public there. So, that's actually the starting point of of achieving the that that that that they are going to start. Well, I do know that in 2020 the target was 90, 90, 90 and I understand it wasn't even achieved. So here you have 95, 95, 95 for 2030. It's just a cliche. Are you guys just trying to have fun at your work? Are you just trying to have fun at your work? No, no, no. It's any kind of determination to meet these targets. You see, you must make your goals very audacious, you know. Because in reality it was compelling, it was challenging to make what you do something extra. If you set a main goal at the end of the day you might be free the purpose of putting the A there. You want a very clear step what you do is that you have to do everything. And that initiative allows movement of human resources who met on money, who met on food, even media to achieve such goal. If you set a goal that is low and just down there people will just look at it and say that well, you go with that with that kind of compression, support and then to actually ensure it happens. So it's nice to set up repeat very audacious goal. You cannot just stand down with this with this goal for example. It's time to let it go. All right, let's you go back to this involvement, this involvement that you want the private sector to get involved in this testing. How again should an investor who is listening right now be getting involved in this and just how lucrative would it be for investors the private sector to get involved in this? You see, let's rest it. Health is more of a social service. We can get so-called you know about being you know about profit you know about diet profit. What I mean in that sense is that it's not because it's not like doing no oil or like that potential where somebody can be charged five hundred million or whatever, no. Now what we're looking at is that at the level of private sector can you what can you contribute okay other in terms of finance in my resources whatever it's needed you know purchase of kids to help us tip full HIV knowledge HIV testing okay now can you provide your space also to interact with the with the population with your people with your worker in this regard can you support campaign to help broaden the knowledge and the depth and the knowledge of it and the knowledge of HIV including the testing these are the critical things so how how does this profit you one the notion of HIV in the society generally would help you a lot even your workers okay even the general population the burden of HIV is in the world are a part of the psychological and stigma that in the entity it comes it has been to you know you saw yes of some disease that should not be a part most of the million to that most is where we say most of the the start that process we say k as a result of HIV is that it's a it's a it's a actually an alliance of terror to that person and it's a for instance now you are in the country where a lot of malnutrition is trying on the thing you see the number of the number of the malnourished has gone down to five million of the gay malnourished children now HIV and malnutrition are good facts because malnutrition leads to worst malnutrition of HIV HIV leads to malnutrition so you see the connection and malnutrition also actually lead to brain malfunction of the brain you see the connection between boost boosting productivity boosting investment and reduction of HIV and life diseases now nobody wants for instance to be seen the resistance train of the virus which we know which is the move because more costly look at this also you are going to put to cheat HIV even with a country like you so if the private sectors that they fully in their in boosting and you know are testing of HIV it it helps the private sector it helps the society it helps the economy all right talk to us about the corruption you said had affected funding for that sector now if we get it for the group in every aspect of life there is actually because you see where you seek for resources either internally or externally the key point is that those resources will be boost appropriated and they are counted of the ones have to represent time for the folks everybody is putting in don't forget so a lot of these things are to not for you okay and you remember at the point of time we had a problem where some of you do not know the problem that we had because of this kind of corruption you get your of some of the sectors that you found there and you see a lot of money being used being applied in a way it's still helping it's not even a point very for you to keep your money to change your system and because of that it's it's strictions have to be the play of for the critical health area so and it's an open knowledge that the point is then that the lot of even though civilization people and the Gavi and Co and even you and I that one bit why the bundle of people like that won't happen to it and and it's everywhere we see it everywhere so but again even though that we need to put a lot of governance in place to use inclusion and need to come that level of the substitution is used and the version of thought that we see this in the industry and then some of these things you see there as people find a lot of that that that that that that that that that will buy for you for you to make change and the point is of this best to keep your your family your family your family your family and of course a lot of things that you can place in the research at the level of the best because there are here actually around these activities of the strategy yeah so did that in that corruption apart from diversion of funds and all of that they don't did that also include exaggerating of exaggeration of figures indeed that's what you know over a person where you know no not figures of HIV you know not the privileged straight to no no I'm talking about figures of HIV were they making the same more than it really was so no no no we can get more funds for from those who are donating who are donating money it's difficult it's difficult corruption does not involve those data the process of collecting those data are very ridiculous I was involved in the national strategy which then you know plan two okay I was one of the state's candidates the process of verification and validating results are very very tedious and ridiculous and it's not just anybody's freedom of bringing results you have to you have to bring evidence for those results you have to show data to convey those results it's best to go through about four 30 processes at the local state consultant said that it's a very good when you see a freedom coming from Nagia you tell you that Nagia my nutrition is this number believe it it's not the fact there are data we go on to present that into that so when we say the total prevalence in Nagia is 1.4 when we say that we we tell this people that 1.9 million okay it's right there are figures to show that where you are set that's set in there if you see this is very nice thing okay so we're not talking about we're talking about the form forms the money that come to that how it is used how it is what it is you have to take you know and provide the same and then I cannot say what this is that's what we're talking about we saw the value figures actually yeah I knew that was what you were talking about I just wanted to also establish if part of the corruption included exaggeration of the figure the prevalence of HIV in Nigeria if we see there is no difficulty for me I think it's actually you know on there estimating you know it can be over back because right what do you do in this sentiment you look at the community population and look at testing and look at greater of for for conversion how many people we have in Nigeria you know where they see a lot of people in a huge gap because you look at the youth 15 to 40 50 to 49 that from the huge portion of victim in the HIV what is the test rate about five 60 percent that's pretty low okay so and this was supposed to have the people this number okay of this that I get yesterday I would say the air feed up okay it's not they don't call this a day too many companies it's too helpful because in reality they're not going to tell me about your partners are involved so many cases with connection they are also involved in not a many youth they are involved because it's not sad so your target population again yeah 15 to 49 15 to 39 49 49 49 okay so what have been the barriers to the growth of HIV testing in Nigeria stigma is the number one thing stigma you know secondly I believe in you of those kids and then you you see that this is actually addressing the the rate much addressing this I believe the purpose of of the of the testing and then knowledge gap between barrier you see a lot of this information this information and great pronunciation of information to it all especially in our health system so if you don't have to write information you have to write understanding to embrace testing to solve this problem and if there's a lot of stigma and then sometimes there are cultural impediments are religious impediments which I with testing you know of the worship is made on that this is my portion whose portion is supposed to be so you need to honestly address or this one of the security I guess set the of measurement like that they are able set they are able to set that availability is also limited and that's why that's what we get this group of one of the groups that we think to attend you know to create most I can to create why if you can if you can if you can understand that if you can if you can if you can to go to go to to go to go to go to to marry the the and then you know to a lot of concerns of people well you health professionals now say that HIV is not a death sentence as people used to think it was tell us what has changed from when we we newly heard about it back in the days and when people were told or made to believe or when it seemed like it was a death sentence to now what has changed what are the revolutions that have taken place good enough but I I came but when I was like never made it to trade each time it was always after it took off so I saw the beginning of HIV up to where it is now I am I was one of the first said to the trade on one called the access to the HIV and to the virus that are the public death when it first said we were trying to apply the act through there but so I can actually tell you the opposite of this it came with a lot of misinformation and and the stigmatization initially it was something that they not think it's a fact that it was therefore called to deal with the potentials and and the to say that if I it became a big issue if I do not be it was to do that somehow because of a promise helping with the time then the stigma came became a big issue of the public who then that are always for the sake I remember the figure in Haiti also at Lago and in the late 1980s you know when so it was a lot of people it was a lot of it was a lot of public people of the time it was a lot of public people and it was so in fact it was a future acquisition and remember a lady that was that was a good friend to wanting to know what was in it you said you didn't know what was going on it was very much with and died and people it was used to for each man on the later later it was already had the HIV so a lot of that most diseases a lot of love from children but and then we moved to developing ARP drugs and the Paran drugs that we're very pleased to smooth them because the monotherapy initially to become multiple drugs that were combined together and then you need to deliver the gravity to the people with HIV that working it's a problem to myself this drug of the rest of California and the likes of Istanbul Beijing of South Africa driving the drugs and said you'll be able to do that like the Africa is a lot of stuff and HIV number ballooned because of that singular government policy HIV number ballooned the South Africa and then a big issue in South Africa because government chose to smooth down in adopting the drug of the said the from from Big Pharma it doesn't get to make money decrypting the bios all sort of remote skin but now we must solve that the choice when actually illegitimate because then I remember one of my clients these days was somebody who working with the facility had the virus so the only time we did that they had it also well first they when they were still in safe it's just what we did for the city having the complex systems that we're not sure but of course after for you that that it did be but even if we had to do that that was not didn't pay a billion to get but of course after that you know had one to do that even in the best thing now that negative and you managed to that life so we saw the drugs benefit given life we now chose to look at the concept of a family in a type of care whereby you know once anybody the family is positive between the father with the mother and console them together and apply to go back to everybody and teach them how to live a better life it still expanded to improve testing improve ARV because ARV then in those was like a a lot of things that are for 5,000 of them it got the it came down by the earlier became now free and you know said that it's so free now it's because I I I I I took a it's it's I have to get to come back so we have moved from era of of humans era of more lack of information transformation misinformation and spirituality it's the era where we have the drugs that people can use and then if you guys used to be there that once you have HIV you cannot breastfeed you cannot get pregnant but now you have get pregnant breastfeed live with people and HIV will not get the person so thank you it's a testing journey so far the first thing to do better the ultimate aim is that 5 by 5 by 5 where it's of HIV stop this transformation and we can then think of another that this type of thank you doctor to you member wonder for your time and information on HIV and what the society of family health is doing to help those who have been affected thank you for having me let me say this I'm not I don't work for such a family yes that has been established thank you all right so doctor to you member wonder is of the public health he's a public health physician and publisher CEO health NECA well that's the module we take him from our hot topic we'll be back with sports and mudashiro is standing by for that stay with us