 And welcome to Work Reimagine, streaming live on ThinkTech Hawaii and brought to you from Honolulu, Hawaii. Why do we need to reimagine work? Well, as we know, we're facing massive disruptions in our labor markets due to automation and now the pandemic. What is work going to look like as we return to some type of normal after the pandemic? And how will automation affect the kinds of skills we're going to need for the jobs of the future? On Work Reimagine, I talked to innovators and entrepreneurs who are creating innovative solutions that help us navigate the effects of these disruptions while making a positive social impact in people's lives. I'm Ruby Menon, your host. And my guest today is Sasha Plutitsa, the CEO and founder of Former, and that's spelled F-O-R-M-R. And Sasha is truly a social entrepreneur. His mission is to give second chances and a fresh start to formerly incarcerated men and women to create his furniture designs that are built from recycled construction waste. Did you get them? His vision tackles two very important social challenges and inspires his mission to create clever designs with a purpose, objects with conviction. I just love that. Sasha, so I'm so excited to have you on the show. Aloha and welcome. Aloha, thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. Well, you know, it's so interesting how I found you, an avid reader of Fast Company Magazine, and of course they did an article on you. And when I saw that you were working with people who were transitioning from prison to our communities, I felt like I had to reach out because as you know, I also have an inmate art project that I work with. I've been, I've launched it about five or six years ago. And what we do is we work with artists who are transitioning from prison to the community, and we help them market and sell their artwork so that they can earn some money for their transition back to their communities. So I felt like there was a kindred spirit in terms of, you know, what you're doing and what we were doing. And so I'm super excited to just be talking to you about this amazing social enterprise that you have. I know it's a business at the same time, though, you are really tackling two huge, huge problems. And so I'm excited to learn a little bit more about the company, but I'd like to start with you. If you could give us a sense of your career trajectory. What led you to create former and to create this, this amazing concept that you have with former So I, I've always had a passion for design. So I, as a kid, I used to draw a lot. I drew, I came from Russia when I was seven years old. So during the Cold War era. So I experienced a lot of A lot of name calling, let's say, and so I would get away, just kind of get away from that through my art. And so I would draw up all the time and draw my family members and So I kind of developed that passion for for art initially, and as a kid, and then I knew I was going to go into the arts as a, as a career. And so I studied industrial design in college. And for those that don't know what that is, that's the design of objects. So When I was in college, I remember thinking, okay, I'm going to design the first cool looking computer. Because back then they were all just kind of gray beige beige boxes that you know with nobody focused on design is more about the performance. And then Apple came out came out with the iMac. I don't know if you remember that that translucent iMac. Yeah, they kind of they kind of start putting design on the map, you could say for the delay person. But anyway, so I kind of after college I went off and I did everything from graphic design to web design to industrial design. I did. I had a signage company. All of these ventures were for myself I did I started all these businesses and so I like to explore into into different different directions. And so one of those experiences was a cannabis dispensary and I learned a lot there. And another those another one of those experiences was an interior design and and I think that's kind of where things kind of stemmed from there from those experiences that connect that I connected into a former. But that's kind of how I got you know that my background a little bit about my background. So, I mean you could have stayed with interior design or some type of you know in terms of your career trajectory. It seems like you took a little bit of a turn if something happened or something inspire you to make that that shift and especially because you came, I guess from the cannabis dispensary world, which is actually a little bit different yeah from your original path so you kind of took a little zig and zag there. But what how did that how did you make that transition into this formalizing former and creating this this business. So, and the cannabis world I was involved in. I never thought it would be involved in that just kind of was an opportunity that came across my lab so to speak and so I did that for about 10 years and through very tumultuous times on the federal level, the federal government ended up closing down the dispensary that we had opened and even though we were completely legal on a city and state level. But they went after us because it was not cannabis was, as we all know is still not federally legal. So we basically that experience I saw how how incarceration affects affects people and you know a lot of people had their legal businesses taken away from them at that time. Ours was ours was one of them. And so people all of a sudden now have records and they are in prison and you know for different things you know even across the country people get imprisoned for just non violent drug offenses and then they have come out of prison and they have to start over. And with the record it's it's the frequently very hard to start over because as you're trying to find a job and start you know find a place to live and it's as you're looking for a job specifically you're filling out that application and they ask you know do you have a history. And with the incarceration and so they so you know people have to check that box and so it prevents a lot of people from getting employment and so I was going through this time we were closed down and I was going through a little bit of a midlife crisis, you could say, and I was trying to figure out a new career path and I really, you know, as you mentioned they kind of stepped away from design for a while. And I really want to get back to it and I wasn't sure what what that would look like but I knew I want to do design and I wanted to have it be socially responsible venture. And so I had no idea how to connect those two together. So I kind of was I was doing these crazy searches on Google for the 10 worst problems in the world and trying to find the connection between the design and these problems and I couldn't find anything and but I was in that strange mode trying to figure out a some some some opportunity or some something that came with come together and I remember I was an Instagram and I was just looking on Instagram and that I came across a post of a coffee table I think, and it kind of stuck with me and I thought, maybe I can make furniture. And I just kind of thought well, maybe there's something there but how do I make it a socially responsible venture. And that's kind of when I started putting the pieces together and I thought back to my time in interior design and I would go to the job site every few days and and I would see these big piles of waste that would be hauled away every couple days and I could not believe it and I remember, because my father's contractor I was working with him at the time. And I remember asking him, what happens to all this construction waste and he said, No, I just goes to landfill is you know, you can't do anything about it you're always going to have cut off materials when you're building, you know, when construction so that's just the nature of construction and I kind of he had been doing this for decades so he didn't even give it another thought at the time but it kind of stuck with me. Obviously, at this point when I was thinking, well, maybe I can connect with contractors and access their, their, their construction waste and repurpose it into building material into furniture materials and use that to build the furniture out of. And so I thought about that and I thought okay that sounds good how do but how do I make it even more impactful. And so that's kind of when I turned to the workforce and I thought about how who can I provide an opportunity to that is a group of segment that is underserved and that's again thinking back to my experiences in in cannabis and seeing people coming out of prison and trying to start over and so I thought maybe I can connect with people that in the reentry world that are trying to come back and and have a fresh start and they need opportunities and a lot of them get taught to use a wood shop as a trade. Learn how to use tools so I thought that there would be you know kind of made sense to connect that with my mission. And so that's kind of how I put those two pieces together and and then you know started from there and it took me more than two years of very it was a heavy lift. Let's let's just say that it was a lot of work to put make the connections on on both sides on the reentry world and on the in the materials world. But finally decided OK I'm ready to do this and I'm going to launch and I launched last year March 11 actually a day from tomorrow is going to be the birthday. Oh yeah so that's the timing was not ideal is as we all know now but that's how it came to be. You know that's super. I mean I really hats off to you because I've worked with the prison population and it is really really really tough. And I think what what's so fascinating to me is that you you're you're you're really looking at two humongous social challenges that where you know we've been grappling with for years and hardly make a dent in. And the the the connecting point for me is that you're working with materials that are discarded. But in a sense inmates you know people were transitioning from prison are also being discarded by society where they're not being given an opportunity or a chance and what people don't realize is that there is so much untapped talent in our prisons and I know this for a fact just from working with the artists that are coming out of prison. I'm sure you've probably seen the same thing in terms of the types of skill sets and a lot of people have like those hardcore skill sets like you know welding and carpentry and you know those types of things and they do learn those things in the prisons actually if they're you know they get lucky enough to get into a program. So what's so inspiring to me is the fact that you have taken to you know the human side and the and the material side that are both being discarded and somehow you're not a way of putting it together and I that is just brilliant. And I'm quite sure that it is probably been really really tough with you know launching during coven because that's not a normal business cycle obviously. So I was curious as to find out what has that trajectory been like for you this past year. In terms of any success stories that you can talk about or even like how is the market responding to your products, and you know I'd love to be able to show a photo of one of your workers. So in your wood shops and then there's, you know I really wanted to show our listeners also some of the design pieces because what's really striking about your design line is the, they're very. I don't know if it's minimalist is that the right word or how would you describe your stuff. I would say geometric. Yeah, I think a lot of the designs are limited by, by the materials. And so when I design, you know, when I try to come up with a design that's always around the limitations or the constraints of the materials that we're working with. So that's kind of, I guess I could say another challenge to designing and coming up with these solutions and typically I, I look at the design. I kind of look explore the, I redefine the concept. So when I, when I look at the design I think about how do I re approach the the object from a different perspective. And so a lot of these designs end up having multiple functionalities to them, like that table that we just looked at. That's got a little vase in the center of the table that that hold that you can put a plants in. Yeah, that's one of my favorite. So yeah, so it's, but as far as the the workforce. You hit the nail on the head I think there's a psychological barrier there. People are coming out. And then a lot of them have had a pretty rough childhood, growing up and in poverty or have had other challenges. And so they have kind of low self worth, what just throughout life, and, and especially coming out now they feel like I think you put it nicely, feeling discarded, they, they, they're starting over. And they, you know, society doesn't necessarily accept them. And so we, that's one of the challenges is, is giving them a support system and helping. Besides the job itself is, I also try to, you know, talk to them and say, you know, I, my door is open to you if you have any challenges or issues that you're dealing with. Because as you know, there are plenty. There are plenty of challenges for us. That are that have not dealt with incarceration but on top of, on top of that, they're starting over and trying to find a new place to live and in the frequently. One of the differences I've had is because when people are released from prison they end up on parole and typically in some kind of a shelter or halfway house and so they have to stay there for a period of time so maybe six months or or longer. So they, but they're released, not necessarily where they're from. And so, for example, there might be somebody working a living in San Francisco, but they're originally from Southern California. And so when their parole is, is, is finished, they'll typically want to move on to, you know, go back home. So, on top of the fact that it's extremely expensive to live here in the Bay Area, as you know, it's, it's there, they want to go back and so on top of the, you know, finding a place to live and and staying sober and staying out of crime and and having good job and the support system there's so many things that that are there confronted with that. It's, it takes a lot of focus and determination to to get through it all. And so I, my, I've had a bit like I said I've been, it's been a year it's going to be a year tomorrow and gone through about five or six employees already that have just for one reason or another have not worked out. And COVID definitely was was one of those reasons. I had to furlough my second employee and then when I brought him invited him back, he got it had gotten another job. So, COVID definitely did not help the situation, but they're resilient, you know, these guys are resilient and they're, they're, they're powering through and one of these one of my employees Gary. He's actually found his passion for art while while in prison. And I kind of got him through. He, he had been there for over 40 years, I think. And he got out and now he's got to show it. He's part of a show at the Museum of Modern Art in New York. He's doing a lot of good stuff and he's now he's starting over but it's he's doing well and there, there are a lot of stories like that. Yeah, and I can attest to some of those stories to we had a similar story where we hired one of our one of the inmates that we were working with while he was in prison. He's now doing artwork for our nonprofit work net, and he does phenomenal work. And, you know, I've been able to help him put his work in art galleries and every time we go to different shows and things like that is stuff always sells out so you know there's there's so if people are willing to help them and give them a chance. It's just amazing, you know, what a little bit of that empathy and some heart into that situation can really transform somebody's life so I completely know what you're talking about and you know and it is it is a little you've got to put a lot more of your skin in the game as an employer most definitely you know because it does mean that there are, you know, they're in general life, life situations hit all of us right but for this population it's that much more difficult because of all the things that you were talking about, you know, we take a lot of things for granted like ID documents, for example, you know, we think, oh yeah, you know we've got our birth certificate we've got our license, you know, driver's license all that. Well these people they come out they don't have anything now imagine trying to do anything in the world without any of your ID documents you can't, you know your hamstrung. So, it does take a little bit more effort, but to me, when you see somebody's life transform like that and you feel like you've been able to help and nurture that it's such a rewarding feeling so you know we want to give them a hand out that's off to you for putting that that you know that part into it. Thank you and some of these guys have been in prison, literally for 20, 30, 40 years. Yeah. You can you can imagine how many how much change we've gone through in that period of time, I mean, let alone last 1010 years you know it's so they're coming out and starting over at this time is not easy. And but they're you know powering through and they're appreciative of the mission and giving them out of the employees that have been here I think four of them have come out and this is their first first job. And you could say, you know, 3040 years. And so they're appreciative of that opportunity. I'm wondering a little bit more on the business side. How, how's the market been responding to your products and how do you get the word out there in terms of you know, the fact that not only you're selling these products but then also about the socially conscious mission that you're spearheading you touched on fast company. There, people have been very excited about the story. I've always felt like this story was. There's a not, there's a lot of a lot of good content behind the story and and it's people, you know, writers have taken on the story and they've done a good job of representing the brand. And, you know, and customers and whether their customers are just people who read the stories are reaching out to me and saying, Hey, you know, completely support what you're doing, what you're doing. Keep at it and a lot of positive, a lot of positive positive responses and feedback has been coming forward since since there's been more, more and more press over the last couple months. So people have been very receptive to it. I was wondering also you know when I'm thinking about the future of work. A lot of the research is showing that you know, everybody's going to have to deal with learning digital skills computer skills and the unfortunate thing about it is that the prisons are really not training. They're ex inmates to come out with any of those types of technical skills. It's truly unfortunate I mean I've heard so many stories of they walked in maybe with a flip phone and then they come out and they look at these iPhones and they don't know what the heck to do with them you know because they're so far into them right because they don't they don't get a chance to work with any of this technology. In terms of training your people. Do you find that they already have a lot of the skill sets or do you have to do a lot of training in order to get them up to speed to be able to create the the designs that you're doing and are you utilizing any type of computer technology that you have to train them on. So, for the most part I look for people with some skill set and and some experience with fabrication in the workshop. And I, in the future I'd love to be able to train people as well and give that kind of give them a jumpstart to their new life and and their career. Or just too small to sustain that to sustain a training process and starting from scratch. So at this point I'm definitely looking for people with experience. Whether it's while being in prison while in prison or prior to prison. They ideally have experience with the tools and the equipment. So far as computers, you're right that's definitely one of the challenges is that they're not comfortable with with computers and and and smartphones. So you have a CNC machine, which I don't know if you know about that but basically it you put in a program you a CAD program let's say, oh yeah, design something and you, you put the file into the into the CNC machine and then it cuts out the shape automatically by itself. But basically, it, it does the work for you and so that's something that we're trying to introduce right now. And it's, we're not quite there yet, but for myself as well, you know, I need to brush up on it, but, but hopefully we'll get to a point where we teach that skill as well. Because that's as, you know, as we progress technologically that's going to be more and more common to be able to use that kind of machine. Now you're using 3d printing at all is that something that you're thinking or you haven't you're not using it. Are you thinking about it at some point. In the cards at the moment. I don't know that I'm not that familiar with it but I think when you're working with that you're limited to that material that runs through the printer, which is plastic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that would be your purpose. Right, right. Yeah. There's nothing that can be that would work within our material, but I'd like to expand our technology down the road and work with besides would work with tile and concrete and other things as well, but that's, you know, that's a little bit ways down the road. Wow. I would love to talk to you for another hour about this because it's such a this is so fascinating and truly, I just admire so much of what you've done to to, I mean just the fact that you put these two social challenges together and found a name making it to work is is truly creative so my book you're like social entrepreneur on steroids. Usually people, you know they they choose one thing or the other it's either sustainability or social justice but you married the two so that that's super creative. Yeah, so we're very welcome and thank you for you know giving these folks an opportunity to make some really really cool stuff and for such a great story as well so really want to say thanks for you to put all that skin in the game in the art that you have. Now I just wanted to direct our listeners to your website which is the former.com. So that's T h e f o r m r.com. Now where else can people find you. Social media or anything. Yeah, there's an Instagram. It's the former. The former. And again there's no e former. So what are the typical paths to to former. Okay, well your Instagram account is cool I follow you so whoever's doing it is doing some great stuff. What's that. We're trying to keep it interesting. It's not easy. Well, good stuff out there but we're trying. You are you are. Thank you so much Sasha for joining me today and telling us more about the former and your story and just keep up the good work I know it's hard but you're you're doing it and I'm hoping that you know people will take some interest in the work and then you know be able to purchase some of your products because at the end of the day you got to sell product right so that's what matters to keep the doors open. Yeah, so thank you Sasha for joining me and thank you all for being here. Please check back for our next show on Wednesday, March 24 at 3pm. Until next time, be safe and take care of one another. Allah.