 Our next caller is Chase from Kansas. Chase, what's happening, man? How can we help you? Hey guys. So I found you guys recently. I started lifting again after a long hiatus since high school joined for the fitness, stayed for the entertainment. So I appreciate all you guys do. I was an athlete in high school. I played rugby year round, played football, ended up hurting my knees my senior year kind of kicked me off the athlete stuff. I met a girl in college. We had a kid. I put on a whole lot of sympathy weight during that time. And then I kind of just accepted that I was fat. About two months ago when I started lifting again, I stepped on the scale. I was about 345. I'm now down to 307 as of this week. But my question is, I've heard a lot that it's impossible to build muscle really when you're in a cut. I was just curious how that works with being obese. I'm eating about 2,000 calories a day, aiming for about 200 grams of protein. I just want to do the best that I can to make sure that once I lose all the weight that I have a strong body underneath. Yeah. No, no. Great question because you're right. You will hear that a lot that while you're dropping, it's impossible to gain muscle. You're also going to love listening to this episode because I think this is beginning themed right now. We have two questions before you, very, very similar. And I know that advice is going to sound very similar. Yeah. Now, you know, here's the deal. There's definitely exceptions to that. Now, here's the exceptions. When people first start working out, that's the biggest one. Like when I get a new client or somebody who just kind of started working out and they start to, they'll start to burn body fat while building muscle. When it starts to get really hard is if you've been building for a while and you're hitting that kind of, you know, you're starting to tap up to that limit of how much muscle you can build. And then you're trying to cut. Well, in that point, then it becomes very difficult. But if you're just kind of getting the ball rolling and you're really starting to get into resistance training, you can definitely build muscle while you burn body fat. Now, here's what I would recommend to you. Somebody who's eating only 2000 calories a day. Who's already lost weight. Got a bulk. I would go on a very slow or light bulk. I would bump your calories by maybe 300 calories. And I would focus on getting stronger and building muscle. And I would do that for a good two or three months. And here's what you'll probably find at the end of that. What you'll find is that you did build some muscle and some strength and you'll probably simultaneously burn some body fat. And then of course, here's the bonus. You'll end up with a faster metabolism. 2000 calories for a guy your size is very low. I'd like to see your calories well over 3000 before you really try to burn the rest of that body fat off. And the biggest challenge here is going to be the mental challenge is going to be, you know, oh my God, my goal is to lean out, lose weight. And these guys are telling me to add calories to my weight. So do not let the scale fuck with your head. I mean, normally the advice we give it throw the scale away or put it away for months. Focus on building strength, focus on the movement and the exercises in the program. But do not get hung up on the scale. And it's and you're going to probably see it potentially go up a couple of pounds. That's okay though. I mean, as long as we kind of hover around closely to the weight where you're at right now. Now, obviously, if I saw you adding 10 pounds a week, I would need to adjust something, but that's not going to happen from a 300 calorie surplus, not even a 500 calorie surplus a day is going to put on a ton of weight on you. And in a perfect world, you actually kind of hover around the weight that you are, but you see yourself getting stronger in the gym and you're able to maintain that calorie intake without really going up. So if you are hanging around the same weight, but yet eating three to 400 more calories every day, then I know, I know good things are happening. I know that your body is actually starting to build muscle and it may be potentially losing body fat at the same time. And so we are putting you in a much better position. Now, Sal recommended to do that for a couple of months and cut. I may run like a three to four week calorie surplus, and then a couple days in the deficit and then go back to, you know, three weeks or so in a surplus, then do a two to three day calorie deficit. And so breaking up the bulk every couple of weeks for a few reasons just for sanity, kind of reset a little bit, see how you feel, see what happens with energy strength. But I would do that over the course of a program and then kind of get back with us and let us know where you're going. Are you following any maps programs right now? So I've, I'm not, I've looked at anabolic to build weight right now. I'm running five, three, one. I was kind of trying to make sure I stuck with it this time because I've tried multiple times in the past, but anabolic is kind of the one I was looking at. What would you guys recommend there? Maps anabolic, I would do maps anabolic do do three found so pick the option where you do three foundational workouts a week and then do the trigger sessions. I cannot stress enough how effective the trigger sessions are as a turbo for especially with the calorie surplus. Absolutely. And so you're going to do two or three of those a day on the off days with bands. You're just trying to get a pump. It's low intensity and do that consistently. It's a three month program. So it'll be perfect for what we're talking about. And if you don't have maps anabolic, we'll send that right over to you. Awesome. I appreciate that guys. No problem, man. Thanks for calling in. Yeah, thank you guys. Definitely a theme shaping up today. Yeah, whether that was intentional by Jerry or not. But great, great questions. Interesting too. Everyone's kind of a little bit different place that they're at, but all very similar advice, you know, like he's all the way down to 2000 calories. Well, I know I was wanted to get into that, but I didn't get a chance. But in terms of being able to find maintenance and just like obviously, like the goal is to lose weight. So a lot of times like, you know, clients will just keep going and keep like kind of scaling it down, bringing those calories down. But did we ever stop, right? Do we ever stop and find where that sort of meets where you're at in terms of like body weight and what you're doing in the gym and kind of find that. So then you can sort of scale up like your 300 increments or, you know, kind of gradually bring that surplus back for people that are in this place. I want to make this clear. And this, I think every time I've said this, I get pushed back or get people go, what, but you wrap your, your brain around this when if we were trained, if I was coaching you and training you and 30 days go by and situation one with you is we've lost 10 pounds after those 30 days, that's situation one. Situation two is you've gained two pounds of weight, but you're eating four or 500 more calories a day. As a coach, I want situation two. I'm actually disappointed in you situation one, which sounds absurd for somebody who has tons of weight, they want to lose. Totally counter. Totally counter. And the opposite of what most clients would think, they would think, oh, 10 pounds I lost this month, we're doing great. No, if we're at 2000 calories and you're dropping like that still, my goal is to get your metabolism built up right now. Because if we want to lose this weight and keep it off forever, I know that a guy this size is not going to be able to eat 2000 calories for the rest of his life. It's just not sustainable. And so we need to get that, not only do we need to address that first, but it's also going to make this whole process easier if we can get the metabolism up by increasing the calories. That's right. And building muscle, it's going to be way easier to lose that total goal, but you have to first switch the mentality to that 100%. Look, we do not have a weight loss problem. That's not the issue. Millions of people lose weight every single year. That's not the problem. The problem is sustainability, keeping the weight off. There's like a 90% plus fail rate with that. So if you don't think sustainability, you're giving yourself 90 plus percent odds of failing. So you have to approach this from a sustainability mindset. And when you do it in a sustainable way, your success rate goes through the roof. So unless you're looking to lose weight and gain it back and then some and end up with a slower metabolism, you got to do it the right way. And that's the way that we're explaining right now.