 a few seconds. I'm going to call the meeting to order. Here we have the recording thing on here. And we have the select board and Dorenda here. Welcome everyone. Do we have any amendments to the agenda? No, not for me. Okay. Anybody else? Okay. So the first the first item on the agenda is accepting Eric Young's official resignation as Lister and appointing Annette Halls. How do you pronounce it? Pallas. Pallas. Yeah. Okay. To replace him until the March 2020 town meeting action likely. Do you want to give us maybe you could give us Sarah just a little review of what happened after our after our last meeting when you. Okay. So Annette and Shelley Desjardins have been the most active even though Annette knows that she cannot do any official list or duty. She's just been inputting data in the meantime. But Annette is a retired nurse and she lives on Upper Sunnybrook Road and she has been here almost every day doing work on the grand list. The point where they've got all they they're all cut up in the property transfer tax returns and they've taken online courses, free online courses through VLCT about you know various aspects of listing and they've been working with Marla from Nemrack. So Eric's resignation as official was an official as of April 8th and he was able to assign some official documents we needed for tap people's income taxes. So he served his duty and he is now gone. So we need the board to appoint Annette as an official lister so she can sign the grand list and do the official duties and she's been excellent. So just to be clear, Eric had agreed to do training. He now is not doing any training. He's gone and we're just working with Nemrack. I don't know. I mean I'm not he this the Lister's met with him last week. The new Lister's met with him after the select board meeting and they have continued to talk to him. I guess they'll call him and ask him for help. You know that's their business. I can't I don't know what they've decided what they've decided to do. He's he goes back and forth on how available he is. It's it's somewhat complicated. Well in any event in any event we need to appoint Annette. And and why are we not appointing the second person? You've already pointed to that. We did. Sorry. Gary wearing you put a Gary wearing and you pointed Shelley Desjardins at the last meeting and now you need to appoint Annette. If that works. Because Eric is now gone. I'm sorry. Got it. So is there a motion to we should probably do this I guess is two things. First of all a motion to accept Eric Young's official resignation as Lister. Would someone make that motion please? I move that we accept Derek Young's resignation from his position as Lister with regret. Yep. Thank you Phil. We should also do whatever we do to to thank people. He's worked in that job in that position for a long time. Yeah. So I don't know what we I don't know what we usually do. Yes, Steve. Second. Okay, you're seconding. Okay. All those in favor of accepting Eric Young's resignation please say I. Any opposed? Okay. He has officially resigned and now we need a motion to appoint Annette to replace him until the March 2023 town meeting. Would someone make that motion please? I'll move. Okay. Steve is second. Okay. Okay. Thank you, Phil. Okay. All those in favor of appointing Annette please say I. Hi. Any opposed? Okay. There we go. We need to appoint Larry Rooney to fill a vacancy on the zoning board of adjustment effective after April 20th, 2022. Well, as you know, we've had a we've had a vacancy on the ZBA since Sarah Berger stepped down to become the assistant zoning administrator. And I have had not had much luck finding anybody to step up. But Larry, who has gone through a he's gone through a zoning process recently to build a small cannabis farm or change a do a small home home industry at their house on Story Road. And he said during the in the midst of the process, he told Kevin, you know, when this is over, I would like to be on the ZBA. And so he has they kind of had a technical screw up at their last hearing that was hard getting people into zoom. So they're just going to have a quick hearing on the 20th, which I guess is tomorrow to make sure that everybody who wanted to be on zoom can and after that's done, then the board then the ZBA will be done with their proposal. And he wrote to say that it is the 60th birthday tonight, otherwise he would be here. And he already has plans he said if you could pass on to the board that I'm very interested in the position I found my experience applying for a zoning change educational I feel I can help moving forward. I'm sure most of you know but we bought our property in the fall of 2005 and have moved in permanently in the fall of 2006 we love metal six the residents are awesome and friendly and have a great community spirit as I approach retirement in the near future I'd be happy to serve the town in this capacity. Thank you for considering me. Larry is a retired former cop from Massachusetts. Oh, maybe we should have an constable again. I think you don't know how many times I have pressed Larry to do that. I've showed him a shiny badge. I've done now he's not interested in being constable because he has to take the training and he doesn't want to take the training nobody does. Plus, I think we've pretty conclusively proven that we don't really need a constable. So not much. As nice as it was to have somebody lurking around in a uniform at elections. Right. So I'm just sort of notices on junk words. Yeah. Is there a motion to appoint Larry Rooney to fill a vacancy on the zoning Board of Adjustment effective April 20th? I'll move it. Okay, thanks. And a second please. Second. Okay. Thank you, Phil. All those in favor of appointing Larry Rooney to fill a vacancy on the ZBA effective April. It's actually after April 20th, right? So it's effective April 21st. Okay. Please say hi. Hi. Hi. Are you opposed? Okay. Thank you. On here. I don't see him. There he is. Oh, hey. Hi, Todd. Welcome. Hi. I'm a little early. I'm a little early. Is that all right? Yeah. And we're a little ahead on our agenda. So it's actually perfect. Okay. Your timing is perfect. So you want to talk to us about perhaps renting or buying the old fire station behind the town offer uses a wood shop. With a retail owner? Yes. So with that, you're on. Welcome. All right. Thank you. Well, I'm a woodworker. I build cabinetry. Primarily I do furniture components as well. But I bet 80% of what I do is cabinetry such as kitchens and bathrooms and that sort of thing. I'm currently located in Northfield and looking for a bigger space. And I've been looking at the old firehouse for a few years now and thought, gee, hey, this could work. So I would move my whole business into the firehouse and create a retail space on the second floor, which I currently don't have. So it would be actually pretty good for me to have that kind of space upstairs. And yeah, I think the purpose of this meeting is to get a sense from the town if you guys are interested in that or not and go from there. Yeah. So you've been through the building. You know what it is. I've been through it. I've been through it. I want to say two or three years ago and then actually last month I went through it again. Okay. Yeah. So the two things that I'm aware of that could be problematic is there is no heating system in there right now, which you probably know. But the other issue is, and I'm not certain about this, but I believe the fire escape, which was the secondary egress from the second floor is kaput or severely impaired. I'm not sure about that, but before you occupy the second floor, you'd have to make arrangements for a secondary egress, I'm sure. So could you rehab the current egress? Are you saying? I don't know. I haven't looked. I walk by that building and a shiver goes down my spine, so I don't spend a lot of time studying. There used to be a metal fire escape, but I can't remember. Does anybody know if it's still there and if it is still there, is it serviceable? Oh, I do. Because I think it was sort of falling off the side of the building a few years ago. So I don't know about that. And I guess the other question for me is just the issue of, and I know they're all over Vermont, but woodworking shop and a wood frame building is often not a great thing. And I don't know what I don't know what you have or would have for dust collecting systems and saw dust collector, all that stuff. Well, right. I think my vision for the dust collection is actually building a closet, if you want to call it that, to house the dust collection system on the exterior part of the building somewhere. And this would allow for easier transfer of the waste out of the shop into, let's say, a dumpster of some kind. But I could also soundproof it. So the dust collection wood, I'm sorry. I was just going to say, it also needs to be, if it's of wood frame construction, needs to be firewood with a double layer. I mean, I'm not sure what the latest rules are, but there is the opportunity for spontaneous combustion, as you know, especially if it gets wet. So anyway, I think in the past, our position was that we were willing to entertain or think about any reasonable proposal, but it's been a while since we've talked to anybody about this. So I don't know how other board members feel. We certainly have not followed through on our commitment to tear the building down. So right, it's still there. Right. Yes, Dave. Okay. The one thing that I would say first thing that came to mind is that first of all, I'd like to see something done with the building. However, I think we should, from my perspective, I think we should figure out what we're doing with the town hall before we move forward with anything there. Sorry, I'm not very clued into the town hall's news or what am I trying to say? I guess, what are you trying to figure out with the town hall? So we're in the mode of trying to figure out, there's some problems with the existing town hall that need to be resolved. And the question is, are we better off to renovate our existing town hall, sell our existing town hall, and build a new one somewhere else, or move into another building somewhere else? And we're right in the early phases of doing that. That said, I hear what you're saying, Steve. I mean, we could, I suppose, consider entering into some kind of short-term lease, but that probably isn't the best thing for you, Todd. I certainly wouldn't expect you to go in there and do renovations, if you only have. No, I mean, to be honest with you, if I were to do this move, I would eventually like to own the building. So, you know, that's not impossible, I don't think. But the challenge is, we now have a shared septic system and a shared water system. So we'd have to figure that out. And the other concern there, which is a concern, you know, all the time is just how the parking, you know, retail operation, if there were people there on the weekends, parking wouldn't be a problem. But during the week, parking definitely could potentially be a problem. Right. There doesn't have to be retail. There doesn't have to be retail. I just thought that might be something you guys would be interested in myself bringing a business to the town and have a retail component. Well, but I don't have to, I mean, I don't currently do retail at all. Yeah. You know what I mean? I don't need to. But if it as a... Excuse me, do you have employees or is it just you? Yeah, I have two. So there would likely be vehicles potentially? Yeah, there'd be a trailer. I mean, I have a utility trailer and there needs to be some sort of dumpster of some kind. Not huge, not like a roll off one, just a small, you know, sticks, six yards and they hold something like that. Nothing big. And that would be it in the parking lot. I mean, all the time. And then if there are retail hours, I guess we'd have to come to agreement about where they could park and where they couldn't park. I was just going to add my two cents in also just agreeing with Steve that was sort of the first thing that I thought was we're just, I think it's looking kind of hopeful that we're going to get this grant to be able to assess, to do a full assessment of the town hall as well as looking at other options besides sort of refurbishing the town hall to the 2022 standards. And so if we get that grant, all that's going to do is in the next year give us information about our town hall and allow us to make a better decision about what we're going to do. So in terms of like timeframe, it's sort of a funny time for this to come up because, you know, what if we decide, oh, it really makes sense to refurbish the town hall, but then there's suddenly this business next door that's using up parking spaces and now we have that problem. Whereas potentially maybe even one of the things would be, oh, you tear that building down and you turn it into parking. I don't know. I don't know what the value of that parking is, but I would be, I mean, of that building is, but at the same time, I think it's exciting to have the possibility of having a business in town and bringing in more folks and having a retail component to it. So, you know, I just, you know, I would, it's one of these buildings that isn't like the easiest building. It's not like everybody's pounding down our doors to buy this building, right? No, or right. It needs some love. It's going to need some love for sure. But I guess what I was trying to get at is back to the parking issue. If that's a concern, I don't need to do retail at all. It was more out of, okay, I think the town might be interested in having another business. Therefore, I would do retail. If that got me into the building. I mean, I'm just trying to think about this while we're talking about it. But, you know, if you had retail hours, which were not overlapping with the hours when we're open or holding meetings there, which is 99% during the week only, who knows, maybe there's some, maybe there's some mental. Yes, I guess though, unfortunately, I mean, if you had come to us two months ago, we would probably be be salivating to do this. But now that we're trying to make a decision about what we're going to do with that building. And if we're even going to continue to own that building, I'm afraid probably it doesn't make sense to go forward with this now. But I would say, you know, keep in touch with us. Does that make sense to everyone? What timeframe do you have in mind in terms of getting back to you? Six months, a year? How much time do you need? I would think, Liz, I would think whether or not this grant, I'm presuming, and I could be wrong, but I'm presuming if this grant does not come through, that we're going to do some kind of an assessment with the resources we have and make some, I mean, we need to make decisions about this building. So as much as the grant is an attractive option, if that doesn't work, we're going to have to figure out how to do it on our own with our own funds or maybe there's another grant opportunity, I don't know. But I would think, Liz, do you disagree that in a year we should know what direction we're going in? I think six months is too short, but a year I think. Yeah, I think six months is too short because it's, you know, even if we get the grant, we'll know in June, which is fairly soon. And then we would, you know, have a certain timeframe and I would imagine it would start, you know, in the summer to start actually doing the assessment. But again, this is nothing about like making any changes to the building. It's only about reviewing the building and other options for a town hall. And so, you know, even if we decided to like do something, it wouldn't be until probably at the earliest town meeting, we might vote on something as a town. If we're voting on something like, you know, I mean, it's, it would be a couple of years before anything actually happened to the town hall is really what it boils down to. Okay. I would think we would know, we would know in a year if we're renovating the town hall or moving into the state police barracks or building a new town hall somewhere we would know in a year. Okay. I think you're right. That would make sense. So I'm sorry about this, Todd. It's very nice to, very nice to meet you. Yeah, nice to meet you too. Keep in touch with us and keep your eye. I love it. I'm sure whatever, whatever action is that occurs about the town hall, it'll be on the town website and publicly available and you can, you can reach out to us anytime. Like I said, if I don't see any big changes there, I'll be sure to contact you again if I don't find something else. Okay. Great. Thank you. Have a good evening. You too. Bye. So we have a few minutes until the fire department comes. Does that give us time to review and approve the 2022 local emergency management plan? You think? There haven't been that many changes. I mean, we updated, I updated it with, first of all, I think Margaret, our emergency management coordinator is extremely, she's been taking continuing education courses. So I think she's been upping her licensing. So I don't think you have to sign it this time, Peter. I think that, well, maybe you do. But the only thing I changed was the, you know, removing Doug Hansen as fire chief and putting in Eric Metivier. Other than that, the spaces are all the same. The number, most the numbers are the same. Nothing, nothing has really changed. I mean, it says review and approve. Yep. I sent it to you guys. Oh, you did? Yeah. I sent it last week. Do you want to hold off until the next meeting? I'm sorry. No, no, no, no. I'm very happy unless, unless somebody else wants to postpone this knowing that, knowing that those are the only changes. I'm very happy to go ahead and approve it if everyone else agrees. Does that make sense or do you want to wait? No. I'm fine with it. Okay. Is someone willing to make a motion that we approve the updated emergency management plan? So moved. Thank you, fellow second. Second. Second. I'm sorry. Who is the second? Steve. Steve. Okay. Thank you, Steve. Okay. All those in favor of approval of the 2022 local emergency management plan, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay. All right, Peter, I'm going to need you to sign that as a representative from the Select Board unless you want to appoint somebody else to sign on your behalf. No, I'm happy. I purposefully did not come down and sign the orders today in anticipation of having something else to sign. So I'll be down tomorrow. Great. Okay. I see Jeff. Hi, Jeff. Hi. I guess we are, we are ready for you a few minutes early if you're, if you're ready. Yep. I'm, I'm ready. Eric's missing this lovely snow down in Florida. So, as far as calls. Good job. So, I don't have it printed out because I haven't had power all day. As far as calls, we have had four calls, fire calls this month. Average has been a little over three per call. We've had 11 fast quad calls. We haven't had anything unusual to, to purchase a repair in the last month. The next month, all our vehicles will be scheduled in for annual inspection and servicing. We did have our drawing for raffle on Friday evening. And we're still working on the final numbers for what we got from that. We are looking at the, using some of the money to go towards the gas meter that the American Legion has had given us $100 towards. And we're also going to be checking out the prices of a couple of propane meters. So, we have a couple meters that are dedicated solely to propane. And we had, we did some. Excuse me, Jeff, those are leak detectors? Yeah. So, if somebody, you know, if they smell propane, we use those. We can use a multi-gas meter, but there's some math involved with that. So, with the dedicated propane ones, it's a lot easier and firefighter proof. As far as training, we did self-contained breathing apparatus training at the Moortown house with air permission. And that went quite well. People got used to using the air packs again. Sorry we didn't invite you, Liz. I'm sure you would have enjoyed it again. And we have our meeting tonight. That's pretty much all from us other than when we had presented the budget, we talked about turnout gear. We had put that in our budget, and then you guys had taken it out. And I didn't see anything in town report on it. So, I wondered what the status of replacing turnout gear was, our funding for that. Help me, help me out if I'm mistaken, but I think there was hope that we were going to be able to get some kind of a grant. The only thing that the city of Leagues and Towns has is a one-time $1,000 grant, which doesn't even cover one set. I'm sorry, it's the turnout gear again. Is that the, what is that again? The coats and pants. Oh, the coats, okay. Boots are good and helmets good. Gloves are more a, we treat that as a consumable item. When somebody needs new gloves, they get gloves. If my memory serves me correct, I believe it was taken out and there was discussion about potentially borrowing money to to outfit that stuff over time and not just purchase all at once. I don't know if anybody else remembers that conversation or not. I don't. The, the, the discussion was to take it out. The problem with buying over time is all of the, the gear is over 10 years old. So it's already after over its NFPA due date. So remind me what the expected cost was going to be. So we're looking at about $1,300 per set and 10 sets. So 13,000. Was that put in our, in the capital budget? Did, did, does anyone remember? I was just trying to luck. So Liz, am I, am I not wrong that you had a lead on a, on a brand for firefighting equipment? Or is that, am I? They're, Eric applied for one for the breathing apparatus and didn't get it. Yeah. That was a while ago, right, Jeff? Yeah. It was like last year or something. I think it's every year, but you know, I, it's millions of dollars spent, you know, around the country. But I, you know, I don't know what their criteria is. I didn't see the grant. So they have a, they have a, they put this list out and say, oh, you can put towards all these things. However, they have a, they, and they don't say that, but they have a pecking order of what they're going to go for. And pumpers are usually their number one item. And then once the pumpers are done, if there's anything left, then they throw all that kind of stuff out. It's like we had tried for, and this was years ago, we had tried for a tanker. And, and that was like, well, don't even bother. I mean, we put the package in, we did get the driver training software and EV and computer with that grant, but for vehicle wise, unless it's a frontline pumper, you're not getting it. So my memory is that you told us that 10 years was the, was the safe limit on that turnout here. That's what NFPA recommended. That's their recommendation. So do, do we absolutely have to follow that? No, we don't. If you, if we're Montpelier, then different story, but because we're a volunteer department that's the NFPA is a recommend, recommending body, even though they have these, I don't want to say regulations, but they have guidance on all kinds of stuff. And one of those happens to be age and caring of, of turnout gear. And just like for trucks, their recommendation is 25 years to replace trucks. Do we replace them at 25 years? Not if they're in good shape and we're not spending lots on service. Well, I think, I mean, for me, and I'm interested in hearing for other people, I think we need to, we need to, we need to figure this out and I appreciate you bringing it up. I mean, as I've said many times over the years, I mean, the number one priority for me with the fire department is for our firefighters to be safe. So whether it's the breathing apparatus of the turnout gear or whatever, I want to be sure you guys are safe. Exactly what we can do and how we would do it. We need to figure it out, I guess. Is your hand up, Lorenda? Yeah, I think this would fall under government services with ARPA. That's what I was about to ask if potentially we could use some of our ARPA funds to do this because if we could, that would be absolutely, that would be a slam dunk. Yeah. So let us, we were supposed to dedicate tonight's meeting, Jeff, to only talking about how we were going to use the ARPA fund. So this is a great lead into that, but we'll work on that. What's the lead time in terms of getting that stuff if you order it? I don't have that information. We haven't gone that deep because we're waiting to see what the, so we can start working the process. Okay. Well, why don't you, I mean, let us think about this and work on it a little bit and at the same time, why don't you look into what the process would be. With all the supply chain stuff might take a year to get the damn things, heaven forbid. Yeah, one of the places we're looking at is Globe, which is manufactured in New Hampshire. So hopefully they can get the textiles, which I think they use American-made stuff. So, but yeah. Well, all I'm saying is let's get going on it. And I appreciate you bringing it up. Yes, Sarah. I'm just saying that Scottish and Miss Head has his hand up. I don't know if you can see that icon. Oh, I can't. Yeah, I see him. Hey, Peter. Yeah, we were talking, you were talking about, you'd have to put it up to a town vote if you couldn't pay it back in a year. And what you had recommended is buying the turnout gear, all of it, but paying it off when I think a term of like four years, if I remember right at one of the meetings, you were talking about that. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. I mean, the good news is, the good news is that if we're able to use the ARPA funds, they're sitting there in the bank ready to go. So that kind of obviates the need to do that, I think. Thank you for reminding us. Jeff, before we get off this topic, if that stuff has a 10-year lifespan, no matter what happens, we should probably be in touch to start the process of informing the budget committee to add this to the Capital Improvement Plan for 10 years out. Even if we figure out buying something today, let's make sure we get it on the list for this new process that we're doing. I think we put that on the list, didn't we, Liz? Do you have it in front of you, Randy, because I didn't open it up to see. If you tell him, he probably has it on there. I don't have it right in front of me. So I will check, Jeff, and the budget committee has been talking about making sure we reach out through email to all of the departments across the town to talk about this. So you'll probably see something come through to the fire department, and that'll start that process. But by all means, please reach out to the budget committee if you have any questions once we get this moving. Okay, yeah, because there should be the airpacks and a water filtration system on that list as well, because I remember specifically those two things for sure were added on that list. I believe they were on there, but I don't have it in front of me either. I apologize. I'm looking at it right now. Let's see. This is the fire department, right? Yep. So we have protective gear. This says $2,500 a set and five to 10 years useful life. And then it says estimated replacement cost $16,000. So that actually goes closer to what you said, 16 times 10, right? I had said 13 times 10, but yeah. So it's not $2,500 a set? It's that price probably included helmet and boots. So that's where the extra, we're just looking for coats and pants because the helmets and boots are fine. And they get the boots especially get replaced occasionally. Okay. So is that under protective gear? That's right. That would be protective gear. Okay. So I'm going to turn that to $1,300 a set and you said times 10, right? Okay. And then that actually shows as a 2021 like to replace it in 2021. I'll work on getting pricing and see if we're close to that or if inflation has taken us past what we had had. So what do we do? What do we do with our old stuff? Do we keep that as spares or for new people or? Initially, it would be good to keep it as spares because we go to a scene. We're going to have to get gear cleaned or either cleaned or if the gear is soft and wet, which tends to happen in the wintertime, then it needs time to dry out. So it's actually, if the members can have a set just in case we need it before the primary set is either dry or clean. I've been to enough fires where I come back soft and wet or looking like an old people. Right. So we'll move on that. Jeff, as I said, that's where we're going to talk about that very not just yours, but the use of the ARPA money in general tonight and start a serious discussion. So we'll get back to you on that. The other thing I want to do is make sure that we talk about and have a plan for moving forward with our potential, I'm calling it a merger of our of our two organizations. And I guess what my suggestion would be is that we will put together a proposal for how that should work, what exactly is required. And I think it's pretty, it's pretty simple, but to figure out what it is. And at the same time, if you guys would come up with a list of any concerns or issues that you have potentially going forward with how this could work, so we can start walking down the path of figuring this out. Okay. So as time flies, time flies by as you will. I just wanted to say something before I forget, Randy, that I and that workshop that I took about capital planning, they're suggesting that you put in a 4% increase every year. So just when we're thinking about 10 years down the road, $13,000 in 10 years is going to not be $13,000. So the formula, I don't know what that is, but I'd have to. Those trusty old compound interest tables again. Right, exactly. Where's my slide roll when I need it? I know there's an Excel formula for it. Anyway, that's a point well taken. I was actually thinking about that in one of the meetings. I was thinking, you know, if a truck costs this amount of money today, it sure as hell is going to cost more in seven years. So, yes. And I don't know whether, I don't know, I don't necessarily think we just use the same plug number for everything. I think, depending on what it is, we try and do the best projection that we can, even knowing that it's obviously a projection. Anything else for Jeff this evening? Okay, Jeff, thank you very much. Okie doke, and we just got power back on. All your lights come back on, mine are on. They just came back on. There you go. The generator down at the station was working today, so we had power down there. Good, perfect. Alrighty. Okay, thank you very much. Bye. Buying a highway department application for a paving grant from V-Trans and authorizing roads commissioner. Excuse me. I just muted him. Oh, okay. Radifying a highway department application for a paving grant from V-Trans and authorizing road commissioner, Vic Dwyer, a signatory action likely. Victor. Yes, sir. They, yeah, we got, we got, we got the application in last Friday. Really, all we had to do was put it, put the application in and any signing can be later. If you want me to sign it, I'll sign it. And is the amount, not as urgent as once thought. Okay, and the amount is the same as what we were approved for last year? Well, this is, this, I don't, the, the, we're just applying for a grant. We don't have to have all the information in right now. I don't, we haven't, we haven't had, this is for Shady Real. Oh, okay. I thought you were talking about the paving grant that we had already approved for. This is a new one. No one from, from, in Shady Real. Okay. The estimator came over in E.J. Blondin and I think only the increase in price was only $7 of tons. But that may sound like a lot to you, but that was very urgent. And what exact, is it the whole, the whole paved section of Shady Real or the lower section or the upper section or what are we talking about? The upper section. Okay. I'm going to turn the garage up. Yeah. Yes, Sarah. I just need some clarification. So this is a paving grant from BTrans for to finish off where the road crew left off, which would be from the highway department to where the dirt happens at Molly Supple. Is that right? And how much is it for Vic? That hasn't, that's to be determined. To be determined. Okay. And when would you get the grant, you know? It would, sometimes this year we would be told whether we were eligible or not. How many, we can be told that, I mean, the possibility is we won't get it because we just got one. Right. I know. I just want to get into the minutes that it's a grant for a certain amount and when you would be able to use it. But that's okay. It's from the, from the, from that, that part that you guys didn't get to do when you repaved the other part of shady railroad. Okay. Thank you. Potential is a keyword. Potential. Okay. And, and Vic, you guys are, are working on the plan for the paving grant that's already been approved for center road, right? We haven't yet. We haven't got time yet. We haven't found time. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Do you have anything else for us while you're on the hot seat? I see Steve looking at it. Steve and Shane and I were going to meet with is what I thought, but we haven't, we haven't scheduled that yet. We just haven't done it. Okay. Can I ask a question? Sure. Just looking at the warrants and the, the, the invoices, the, like how far off are we in terms of the money we were spending on this road repair, like how much extra do you anticipate that we will have spent this season on mud on just, just this $5,000. Thanks, Vic. I just, I saw how expensive it was. I just wasn't sure how much we normally spend it this time of the year. I don't know the answer to that question. I don't know the answer. But we, whatever is in our budget, it's we're, we're above whatever we norm by 75,000 or that's how much we spent this year. Steve, do you have a sense from past years? I don't, I don't think we're going to be 75,000 above what we normally spend, but it's way above what we normally have. We don't, this hasn't happened in a long, long, long time. I would say, and I, this is just from my memory, but I, I would say typically it's $25,000 to $30,000 this time of year. And sometimes we have stone and, and gravel and material left over and sometimes we use it all up. But I think that's more a typical mud season expenditure. That's ignoring, that's ignoring any, you know, special extra mud season mitigation work, just dealing with a regular, regular springtime Buddha. Right. That's kind of what I'm trying to say. Yeah. Yeah. So we're kind of a, we're in a bit of a hole here. And there's another question when we get to the ARPA discussion, can we possibly use some of those funds for that as well? Maybe we can. I don't know. We'll get some. I still hope, I still hope that the state's going to give, that we're going to get reimbursed some of this because of the severe spring frost or mud season. Yep. We're still trying to try to do that. The other thing is, is there any time frame on that decision, Victor, did that you know of? Not that I know of, no. No. The other thing is we got, I think the best way to say it, we met with, Shane and I met with Jim Ryan from the A&R, the Municipal Road Grant Program. He's the one that oversees the, like the Stonefell and Sadamut Basin and waiting all that stuff to stop the erosion going into the joining Brooks. And somebody turned us in for Baldock Road. And we met, it was a week ago, Monday, last Monday, I think it was the 11th. We walked the entire road and he showed us what he wanted, his wish list. And he wanted us to hydro-seed everything and then go back and make the adjustments, put in Stonefell, put in Matting where we, it would possibly have, lay the slopes back, which most, which the ones he wanted would be out of sight of it right away. Probably not a problem with, because most of that was on Baldock property and it was thought that they wouldn't mind us doing that. But anyways, he didn't, he said that he didn't know whether they were going to find us or not. And then we thought that we could, we were all set, or Shane thought he was all set because of the connected sections were the ones that he did. But in reality, if it's not a connected section, it comes under that standard for highway and bridge projects, our specifications, and that's the document that we signed in at, right after town meeting that we will do. So if one doesn't pick it up, the other does. But due to the weather conditions we've had in the last week, we didn't hydro-seed it. We're all set to do it. But the reason, given that we didn't do it last fall was because the truck that we used ended up down at Bootsies and we couldn't get parts for it. And I think if you remember, or maybe you don't remember, we didn't get it back until like December. And by that time it was too late to hydro-seed. Anyways, we're going to do that just as soon as the snow melts, I guess. Probably if we're negotiating a fine by dealing with air concerns and problems and getting them taken care of might make them more sympathetic towards not finding us. He didn't come out and say that, that that was going to happen. But, you know, he, well, he didn't mention it. He wasn't sure whether it would happen. Yeah, let's hope it's not an issue. Right. Anything else for Victor or anyone? Okay, thank you. So we have, we need to go into executive session for two matters, which are listed on our agenda. Is there a motion to go into executive session? I'll make a motion to go under in the executive session. I guess I need to state that it's the VSA 313 to discuss grievances. Yes. Thank you. And is there a second, please? Okay. Thank you, Phil. In that motion, Randy should specify who should attend who is not on the select board. I would like Victor to attend if everybody's in agreement with that. Okay. What about Sarah and Doris? I don't need to attend. All right. Okay. This is a matter that pertains directly to the highway department. And at this point, I feel like we can start with Victor and move on from there. Okay, before, before anyone talks, I just need to have somebody be able to call me to just say when you're going back in the meeting or else I can actually just, I don't know if I can mute everything. I'll text you. I can call you, Sarah. So I can just holler up. Oh, that's true. All right. That's true. Yeah. All right. So I'm going to just give me a tip. I need to put people in the put in the waiting room. I guess we're ready back to go. So you got out of the executive session at 646. Okay. 645. And we are taking and we are taking no action at this time as a result of the executive session. We did probably trying to be careful and trying to be proper. Get into a discussion about advertising, advertising for the road crew. And we agreed we'd talk about it out of executive session. We want to ramp up our activity, whatever that means. We discuss or we have thoughts of trying to figure out how to use social media. The point is we really need to find a qualified person for the road crew. So I think Flintport, I think we do all the stuff we've been doing and if we can do if we can do something more or somebody has an idea of how to do something more, let's do it. Because this is the time of year when a lot of people who typically take the winter off to do whatever they do in the winter. I always used to call it going into the woods, but they're ready to go back to work. And now's the time. And contractors are out looking for them. Other towns are out looking for them. We've got to we got to get out there and get out there and hunt. I know that they have a big equipment show, heavy equipment show coming up. Probably that's a great time to start looking around or maybe passing out something to because you'll have other people from other road crews from all over the place. When they drive heavy equipment. That sounds like a networking event for Shane and the guys because didn't they just sign up for that? They did, yes. So we sign on bonuses or maybe a possibility. I mean, the other thing that I'd be willing to consider, which I've done a few times over the years is not a huge but a reasonable bonus for an employee who brings us a qualified candidate who we hire, not just bring this up a qualified candidate, but somebody who we hire. Write a matter to do that same thing, Randy. Yeah, we offer $1,000 for an employee referral. They get half of it at the six month mark and half of it at the year mark. Interesting. Well, I'll tell you, as we all know, these guys all know each other to one degree or another and I don't know. I would bet that 25 to 30% of the existing crew technicians in our department have been hired in that manner over the last three years. Wow. And we've had an ongoing ad for all of that three years, if not four that has never been taken down and we're still short staffed. So to have that referral program bring in that many people that are still on staff today was huge. So I don't think that that's a bad idea. Yeah. I think it's a hell of a good idea. I don't know how many who would take it seriously, but that's enough money to motivate someone. That's for sure, I would think. We said the same thing, $1,000 for somebody we hire $500 when they're hired and $500 if they're still working for us in six months. What do you think? Yeah. I would support that. I mean, we need to do something to be creative to stir the pot. Victor will be out there knocking on doors for that $1,000. Right, Victor? I can see him whizzing around in his electric car now. I don't know. I don't mean to be, I don't mean to be facetious. I think we seriously need to think outside the box on this because what we're doing clearly is not working. Seriously speaking, Peter, I think that might happen within a week's time for you. Nothing that I'm going to do, but I bet that that will. Well, somebody taking a town up on that offer. Okay. So we should make sure, and Dorinda would want us to make sure that that was in a minute. So is somebody willing to make a motion that we do that? I would make a motion that we offer a sign-on bonus for an employee referral, offering half of it at the six-month mark and half of it at the year. Or did you say sign-on for when they get hired and half at the six-month mark? I don't know. Whatever the right way to do it is, but I don't want to pay for somebody you. I think that makes sense. You got to put some money in their pocket and say, thank you very much. And hopefully this works. And there's another $500 coming. I like the sound of that. If everybody. I just need you guys to slow down. There's either a sign-on bonus for someone to come in, or are you talking about a referral? It's a referral bonus, not a sign-on bonus. That's the first step. And how much is that for? $1,000 total. So offer a $1,000 referral payment or a bonus referral. Fee, fee, referral fee, referral fee. Okay. I'm just trying to sort, trying to be a mind reader and it would be payable when? 50% when a person is hired and 50% in six months. Okay. Thank you. Okay. That person stays on or no matter what? No, no, no. They have to be still working for us. First, yeah. So the person is still working for us. Yeah. And this referral fee would only qualify to only current employees could get that, right? Not somebody off the street or someone off the street. No, no, no. This is for our employees. Yeah. Okay. All employees, like me? Yeah. Sure. Why not? I mean, I think that's right. I don't think select board members should get it. I would say any town employee. Okay. Yep. Yep. Okay. So we need to make that motion and vote on it. Okay. I will make the motion for the $1,000 employee referral fee with a payment of 50% at the time of hiring a qualified candidate. And 50% as long as that candidate is still employed at the six month mark. I'll second. Randy, that was either see or fail. I don't know who raised that one first. Take your pick. Okay. All those in favor of the motion, please say aye. Raise your hand. Aye. Aye. All right. Anybody opposed? Liz, are you still there? Yeah. Sorry, my generator shut down. So now I'm just on the phone. What were we voting on? The referral. Oh, yes. I'm in favor of it. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Viewer, Steve Martin's email to the board, our re-annual highway department boot compensation procedure, action possible. Steve, you're on. Well, I sent that out after that last meeting. I didn't get it right out when I wanted to, but I finally got it out. Anyway, one comment that I wanted to make was that I applaud Darinda for keeping her eye on these things. I think that first, I wanted to say that I think that's extremely important. And she's always done that. And I've always had faith that, you know, she picks up on any of these things. So that being said, we still had the problem, and then we end up discussing it. And with all the things that we have to do, I think that we need to change how we do this so that that is not a discussion in the future. And that's why I put it, and I believe everybody's had a chance to read it. I don't think we need to spend a half an hour on it. That's my opinion. And that's all I needed to say. Yes, Victor. I just disagree with one part of it, respectfully, is that the wording should be up to $200. You don't just give them $200. In other words, we still want to end up just paying for a pair of boots. Okay, so I went back and looked at what our current revised, updated thing says. And nowhere in there does it say it's one pair of boots. No, but it shouldn't be. Well, I'm just I'm just bringing it up because people keep saying it's one pair of boots. But it says the town of Middlesex offers a boot only allowance. That was to deal with the sock issue up to $200 to a full-time highway department employees on their date of hire and annually thereafter. These boots must meet ASTM, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But it doesn't say it's one pair of boots. I think the key word there is boot, not boots. Well, we're not going to buy only one boot. I mean, anybody with common sense is going to get, is going to know you're not going to get two pairs of boots. Well, then I'm going to say one pair of boots. Yeah, that's why I'm saying one pair of boots up to $200. Unless you want to, unless you want to sell some money. All I'm saying is the chain read the policy and obviously misunderstood. He wasn't deliberately trying to take advantage of us. I am not saying that he is. No, no, no, nor did I. No, I'm not saying he did. I'm not saying he did. But, you know, I don't. I mean, I do think it's a stretch to think you can get two pairs of boots. I mean, it wouldn't be, it wouldn't be in my mind. I mean, of course, I've been, you know, I've been in that where we got boots. We got boots every two years, one pair. The other thing, the voucher system to me seems screwy, but I don't know how you, you know, I think they ought to buy the boots, bring us a receipt for the boots, and we reimburse them if I was doing it yesterday. That's fine. First of all, the voucher should be made out more clearly than it is. The last voucher that was made out, all it said was boots. There was nothing that said it had to be safety boots. There was nothing that said it was a pair of boots. I think if you had the voucher system with that prefilled out stating the criteria that you want according to your policy, when they walk into Lennies with that, it clearly states what they can and can't buy. And if it says one pair of boots on that, that's fine. The problem with Steve's suggestion of just giving them a $200 allowance, we can't do that because that becomes income. It then becomes taxed and we have to pay demers on it and everything else. So we really need to stay with the voucher system or a reimbursement if they bring in the reimbursement. This way, if it's with the voucher, the employee doesn't have to worry about getting it back. But we have to have it for audit purposes and we just can't pay out money in advance. One of the problems that I can see happening with the reimbursement scheme is, I mean, I don't know how picky the town is, but I will tell you right now at my place of employment, we don't pay any tax. And if somebody pays tax and we ask for reimbursement, they are very clear about the fact that they will not pay tax. So the reimbursement piece of that, we just need to be thinking about that and whatever the town stands on that, take that into consideration if you do move away from this voucher system. They wouldn't have any tax on it anyways, would they, Peter? Oh, right. No, it's a pair of... No tax, it's clothing, it's a pair of... Yeah. No, that's a good point. Yeah. That's a good point. The voucher system has worked for several years. And, you know, I think it's easiest, but the problem is, I think we need to pre-fill out that voucher. So then all that has to be done is the employee's name written on it and given it to them at the time. Then it's up to Lenny's to make sure that everything's within that specification. Yeah. I'm fine with that. That sounds like that could work. Yeah. Go ahead, Phil. I'm sorry. Okay. Yeah, I'm fine with the voucher thing. And I was just thinking back to Steve's email, and I think Steve, you brought up the idea that the standards may have changed somewhat from when the policy was written. And I don't know anything about this, but I'm just... I'm saying, I think Steve made a good point there. If in fact there are changes, and we need to look at that, then we ought to think about revising the policy. We should probably make a decision about is it one pair of boots up to 200, or is it 200? And you can get two pair of boots. You pay the difference as long as they meet that standard. So I think we probably need some policy revisions, and then based on that policy revision, Dorinda's suggestion that we kind of have a pre-filled form and go from there. Just I think there's a couple of things going on that we probably need to clarify. That's my two cents. Well, Randy, you did some work on the standard saying that the standard we're currently using is obsolete, or... It's just been updated. So the core standard itself, the 2413, remains the same. The difference is the Dash 11 on the end of the certification, that was put in place back in 2011. Today's standard, it's the same F2413. It's just a Dash 18, because that's the last time that they've actually revisited that certification. The core certification really remains the same with a few slight differences, but not enough where I don't think that that is going to be the deciding factor. The town employee policy or the personnel policy takes it a step further over and above the certification, though, and specifies an eight-inch height requirement on the boot. So that's not part of that specific certification. The certification really deals with the compression of the toe and all that kind of stuff, impact all that. For some reason, and I don't know why, but the town specifically called out eight inches in height, and I don't know if that was because of some other insurance reason that we have with a policy with our insurance company. Who knows? I think it's been there for a long time, and we've just left it there and haven't paid a lot of attention to it, to tell you the truth. Yes, Victor? I called Preston Mayot, Vosha Osha for the State of Vermont, and talked with him. And that eight-inch, it doesn't have to take an either eight-inch, six-inch. The rules have really lessened a lot. You can actually get in the right conditions, you can get a pair of sneakers with a toe in it that meets the specification. So you don't have to have any of that. The idea of the eight-inch is for ankle protection, pushing your ankle, and it has that little guard inside it? Yeah. I'm looking down at my ankle. Six inches is going to cover my ankle, but I have no idea about what the right thing is. Six inches are fine. Six-inch ones are fine, according to the, and it is the same thing as Randy's saying. It was 24, or was it 24-13? Yeah. And then there was a 24-12, which doesn't apply, really. And then there's a 13, which was, that means, and like you said, in 2018, they revised it. These revisions come from 2018. If we're really talking about revising this policy, you know, I think you guys did it just according to this personnel policy, the last time this was approved was September of 2021. So September 21st, to be exact. If we're really going to go about that, I might make another suggestion to alleviate one of the other issues that came about with the whole boot thing. And it has to do with the anniversary date of employees. And I would like the board to think about whether or not it makes more sense to do it on a specific date, you know, like a, maybe it's a July 15th or whatever the date is, you know, coming into a fiscal year. And new employees would be prorated based on their date of hire to that at the time of employment. And then you don't have to spread out this voucher program. Or Shane doesn't have to track, okay, well, this guy was hired on November 1st. This guy was hired on the 27th, you know, whatever. Very specific date. The problem with that is, how do you prorate it? You give it, but let's say the guys that we're going to pay out the money in July and we hire the guy in May gets 25% of a pair of boots. Yeah, whatever that percentage is, they're responsible for the rest. I mean, they've got, and then in, come July, he gets 100% of the value again. That seems a little tough to me to say to somebody, I mean, if it's, I don't know, I don't like that to be honest with you. I think if we get this set up properly and it's on the calendar, I mean, it's not like we have 50 employees, right? We're talking about three people or four people. I don't think it's that big a burden to deal with that. But I think the pre-filled-out voucher with the proper spec and the proper height, and specifically saying one pair of boots at up to $200. So we're clear on that. There's no misunderstanding about that is what makes sense to me. And I guess, in deference to your idea, Steve, I've, having had some chance to think about it and I've been trying to think about how to make this better, my experience with just giving people money is that they'll be wearing their old boots for two years and they'll be spending the money at the bar or wherever they spend their money. And I want them to have new boots and I want them to be in good condition. I mean, we could say, you know, we could say, you know, you go and, like I said, you go buy one pair of boots up to $200, which meets the spec and will reimburse you. But, you know, there are problems with that as well. I don't know, we need to put this to bed. I think we've beaten it up until we're all going crazy and then we have to figure out what we do about, about Shane's situation. Well, isn't Shane's situation already figured out? Didn't we already do that? Well, hasn't been, hasn't been done yet because I put it on hold much to horrendous distress subject to this meeting. So if that still holds, we should do that. Yes. Let's just see if we can wrap up the policy piece first. So are we going to stay with the voucher system? That's fine if everybody agrees. I do not like the idea of just just giving them the money. Giving them the money or having them buy it and then get reimbursed. I don't mind that so much to tell you the truth, especially when the pay raises would give it up. It seems to me they could go out and buy the damn boots, but whatever. There is one other issue and this has probably been dealt with before. What if in the course of performing their duties on our roads, worksites, somebody ruins a pair of boots and they've got three months to go before their anniversary day? Can they get a new pair of boots then three months early? Not so they get another pair. Randy's shaking his head, no. No. The town's providing them with a set that should reasonably last through that year. If you get into that situation, then if I want a new pair, what stops me from just going out and doing something to them? I mean, then I don't want to think bad and I think that's going to happen, but I think it's more than reasonable that the town is providing it on an annual basis. These boots, quite honestly, I wear a bunch of different styles of them and realistically, they last a handful of years with daily use. So going a year should be no problem. I just was raising it. I don't know. Well, the other thing I would say to support that idea is I'm sure, I mean, I don't know this, but I would imagine if it was me and I was going out to work in the woods on the weekend, guess what? I'd put on my work boots. Sure. It's not like they come to the town garage and their sneakers and put their boots on. They put them on at home. So anyway. So I just have one last question and the question revolves around the voucher versus the reimbursement. Would there be a preference from the town standpoint as far as Dorinda or Cheryl and the efforts that you guys have to go through for one application versus the other? Lenny sends us when they turn in a voucher, Lenny's just sends us a bill with a copy of the receipt of what the person bought. And so we're basically writing a check to them. If they're looking for, if we're doing a reimbursement, then we have to write a check to that person for reimbursement for the boots. So one way or the other, we write a check. Guys, I'm sorry. I think Liz is trying to ask a question and she can't. She wants to know she will. Did you have a question? She says she said she does not think that we should do reimbursement. That's what she just texted me. She said having a hard time, I don't know, getting in. That's it. Well, who would like to make a motion on this wonderful subject? I'll make a motion. I'll make a motion to clarify the existing policy to very specifically state one pair of boots up to $200 on an annual basis. The same way that it's currently exists. I believe it says on their anniversary of employment. Doesn't say one pair of boots, though. It should say one pair of boots. That's what I'm saying. I want to very specifically call that out in this policy. And that's the change that I would make to this policy. As long as we're doing it, do we want to change the reference number? To the dash 18. Yeah, I think we said as long as we're doing it. Yes. Okay. And do we say at least six inches high or do we stick with the eight inches? Six minimum. I would be fine with six inches that meets the standard. So I'm fine with changing it to six inches moving forward. This is that's fine. So our motion includes just to just to be clear. Sarah's waving at us. I don't know what the dash means. It's the the certification standard. It's the 2413-18. 2413-18. So 18 refers to the last date that it was revised. Randy. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Okay. It doesn't necessarily refer to their date. It doesn't it refers to a revision, not necessarily a date. Yeah, it was done in 2018. So that's the revision. Yes. Correct, Steve. Okay, I'll second. Okay. Wait, one more thing. You guys want the detail. Do you want what Dorinda said about having a detailed voucher that the voucher states that? Definitely. That the voucher states all of the above. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Are we ready to vote? All those in favor of the motion? Aye. Aye. Liz, if you can hear us, send up a smoke signal. She said sue. I don't know if she means sure or sue. Sure. Sure. Sure. No, that's something different. Okay. She says, she says, aye. Okay. All right. Thank you. So now, Victor, I said I would talk to Shane. Do you still want me to do that? Do you want to do it? How do you want to handle it? It doesn't matter. I mean, I can tell him. I think it's better if you tell him. But since I said I would, I will. If that's what you want. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I read the minutes and it said you or me. So it doesn't matter. I can do it. Okay. That'd be great. I apologize for getting you in hot water if I contributed to that anyway, but I didn't know it at the time. Okay. So Vic will talk to, Vic will talk to Shane. Right. Okay. I'd like to briefly comment on this thing is how my letter to the board prompted all this. And I appreciate what you said, Steve. But I do very take it very seriously what I bring to the board. And it came back to me that I'm dealt with a million dollar budget. I don't know what she's worrying about $45 for. And it just seems to be I get criticized when I bring something to the board. And I just don't feel it's right. My second part of my email, my letter was who, why was this procedure even stopped? Why didn't we go forward with the intent of what was decided by the board in that meeting? And I think, and that is coming from not as the treasurer that is coming as Dorenda Kroll, a citizen in town. And I just, I wait a minute. Let me talk. Okay. I just think this is something that this is not the first time this has happened. And I think this is something that needs to be addressed by the board. There's more than one issue here. And I think that I just don't feel it's right. And I was very upset about this. I still, it still bothers me. And it seems to get brushed under the rug. And that's what I'll say. Okay. So let me just say, let me just say a couple of things. And I don't disagree with anything you're saying, first of all. And I apologize for getting you upset. But after receiving Steve's letter, which we all received, I agreed that I would not talk to Shane until our next board meeting. And this was resolved. And you're probably correct. I shouldn't have, I shouldn't have taken that on myself. And I shouldn't have done that. It isn't that I was saying I wasn't going to do it. I was just saying there was going to be a two week delay. And I did that as a courtesy to Steve, but I didn't mean to not do what we voted on. I get that. But just as a case in point, we did not get Steve's email until after the conversation had already taken place with Victor. No. Okay. So that's just a point. So this was already decided on when you had a conversation with Victor at eight o'clock in the morning. You, well, and we did not get Steve's email to later in the afternoon. Oh, whatever. So I just wanted the story just, that's where these, I think there's definitely not clarity here and or transparency. Yes. Just to follow up a little bit. As this was starting to get discussed, I wrote you all an email that said, I'm concerned that we're going to violate the open meeting law by having a third person enter into this discussion and thereby having, you know, illegal quorum. And I, I'm grateful nobody else responded. I wasn't meaning it to be a lecture. I just wanted to keep us out of hot water. And as I thought about it, it took me quite a while to compose that email. It occurred to me that I think, I think we need some training. We have at times drifted outside of, you know, how we ought to be operating. And I just think it would be a good time for us. We belong to the league. They have resources. We could have somebody come in. We could have an annual retreat day. I did this with many, many boards over the years. And, you know, we have a new member. Randy's hitting the ground running. But still, I think, you know, he would like to hear from some people who are involved in this kind of thing. And just for his own knowledge base. I think he is certainly having the treasurer, the pale clerk, our, to have a director and maybe having a new fire chief as another person who's instrumental as far as I see Vicks position in the fire chief position fairly similar. That it wouldn't be a bad idea for us to have some time, you know, not have any other pressing matters to have some people who really understand these things, talk to us about statutory roles, responsibilities, what we should or should not do, what's good practice, what's bad practice and let us even just ask some questions. Things that we thought about where we thought, you know, are we doing this the way we ought to? Could we do this better? That promotes some discussion between us. Again, this is not an action thing. This is a piece of professional development, if you will, for us. So I just want to throw that out there as a follow up to all of this as far as the discussions. We clearly could do better with our own communications and we should do better. So I want to put that out there. Not anything we have to make a decision on tonight, but I think it's something we should consider and that I would certainly encourage that we look into bringing in the week. We set aside a meeting as a retreat meeting for ourselves and spend some time going over what we should and shouldn't do. That's my two cents. I don't think that's a bad idea. I mean, my preference, I think it's a good idea. My preference would be I hate those. I just have a, not that I wouldn't go, but I don't like those weekend retreats. I'd rather have a special two or three hour board meeting in the late afternoon or the evening and deal with it. That's exactly what I'm suggesting. Yeah. Can anyone hear me? This is Liz. Yes. Oh my gosh. Wow. I figured out the technology. So I want to acknowledge Dorinda's comment and her frustration and I completely, you know, can see where it's coming from. I also want to acknowledge that Peter's job as the chair is to often relay information to people and that everything then becomes sort of hearsay, right? When you're, when you don't know what the person has said and the purpose behind minutes and recordings is for the very reason for us to go back to say, well, what really did happen, right? Like what really was said and so I think that, you know, Dorinda's right. I think that there's, even though it's legal for two people outside of a meeting to have a conversation, it probably shouldn't happen, right? But it does, right? It just inevitably does. And so I think it's more about when we have those conversations, if it makes sense for us to be having conversations apart from a meeting just to get clarity on something before we go into a meeting versus it's secretive and we're going to make a decision about a vote. Those are two very different things and I will say from my eight years of experience on the board, never have I ever been, had a conversation with another board member that was a sway of a vote. It was more about some clarity about something that, you know, didn't happen, that I didn't get in a board meeting or that, you know, heads up, you know, the road down here, we could be getting people, you know, calling us about this, like that kind of thing. So I don't believe in my heart that there are sort of nefarious things going on behind the scenes between board members, although I could be very naive, but I do not believe that's happening. It's never happened to me. But I do believe that, you know, things can be misconstrued or just sort of mis-said in a way that makes it look like, you know, somebody is being misquoted or misrepresented. So I think Phil is right, we need to be more cognizant of that. We need to be thinking about every time we say something to someone we need to be thinking about, is this an okay conversation to be having, right? Like is this in my heart of hearts, is this the okay conversation to be having? And if it's not, then I think that it's like, well, let's leave this for a agenda item or whatever. So I'm done. The other thing, the other thing I would like to say, and this is probably on me more than anybody else, is I don't know what that was. I'm sorry. I don't know what I don't know what that was. I am probably the person who has had the most conversations with board members or municipal officials, Sara Garinda, whoever, outside of our board meetings. I do my very best, and I'm not going to say I'm perfect by any stretch, but I do my best to convey what was agreed to or what the sense of the board was. But that said, and the reason is that many times it's things that need to be taken care of, you know, something that needs to be done, this, that, the other. I think it would be good to have, good for me to have clarity about when it's okay to do that and when it isn't. I mean, if I should be saying, you know, I'm sorry, we can't have this conversation, it's got to be at the next board meeting or we need to have a special board meeting or whatever it is, I'm fine with that. And I want to be sure we're doing things the right way. I try very hard to do things the right way. But, you know, I think we could all improve what we're doing and to the extent that starts with me, I would say, Phil or Sara, let's see what the league can offer to us and set it up and do it. I don't think it needs to be complicated. And if there's some charge associated with that, because, you know, we're not attending one of their seminars, we're asking them to come and meet personally with us. I'm in favor of paying the fee, whatever it is, can't be that much. I'm glad to work on trying to set something up, make a couple of phone calls and come back to the board with whatever I find out. Try to be great, Phil. That'd be great. But again, let's do it while the iron's hot. Let's do it sooner rather than sooner rather than later. I'll make a call tomorrow. Okay. I, for whatever reason, the internet dropped me and I couldn't get back in. And then I got on the phone and then I was finally able to get back in. That was the noise. But can you just give me just a two-second thing on what we're talking about? So what Phil suggested was that we could use some outside help and assistance to help us conduct our affairs, overall our affairs, in the best possible manner. And, you know, learn what the real rules are about what we can talk about, what we shouldn't talk about. I mean, we're all aware of the, you know, the three board members meeting on the corner in the street and making a decision. We know we can't do that. But there are other things where we could clean up our activities. And I stated, you know, there've been times when I've had conversations with not only board members but other town officials, be it Shane or Dorinda or Sarah, about something that needs to be done or something we need to work on or whatever. And, you know, it may be that I should not be doing that, that, you know, we have to have a special meeting or whatever the correct procedure is. I want to follow it. I want to do it the right way. And if we're not doing it the right way, we need to change. And I agree with Dorinda 100% on that. I have no, you know, no problem with that. So I think we all agreed we're going to do that. Phil's going to see what he can, he can set up. But likely it's going to be a special meeting at some point in time for just this, just this subject. Do I leave anything out? Anybody? Good job. Okay. Okay. So here we are. This was supposed to be our meeting when we were going to talk about ARPA funds, and we've used up our whole meeting and more on other subjects. So I'm going to suggest, and I don't know how everybody feels about it, but I think now we need to consider having a special meeting just to talk about the ARPA situation. Because otherwise we're never going to get there. I agree. Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. And I don't know if, if, if next Tuesday works, works for people. Sooner than later. Yeah. Again, I don't think, I don't think we should wait. Would that work for you Dorinda next Tuesday at five? Okay. Everybody else is okay with that? I, I need to be away. But if I am, it's strictly going to be ARPA. I'm glad to send in some of the items that I'm interested in. So they get on the agenda and certainly trust all of you to, you know, hash out all the, all the, all the stuff. Well, I don't think, I don't think at this first meeting, I don't envision we're going to make any, any decisions. I think it's going to be an information gathering meeting. Is the way I see it. And an idea, you know, we learned tonight about the, about the turnout here and she, you know, we, we agreed, we'd do something about that and we haven't done it. So I'm glad he brought it up. We can use some of the ARPA funds for that. That's probably a good thing. But I think, I just, and if I, if I'm saying this wrong, please correct me. But I think the idea was that we're going to put together some ideas and then potentially we're going to have a public meeting and put this out to whoever we can get to come to our public meeting and see if they have any ideas before we sit down and make final decisions about any of this stuff. I mean, the one thing, the one thing I am concerned about, and I think we know that it's September, I just don't want to lose the opportunity to get the, to get the match on the fiber, fiber situation. And who knows? Somebody else may take advantage of that match, in which case it doesn't matter. But if we can double the effect of our, of our contribution, that would be a, that would be a good thing. So anyway, well, let's plan on, let's plan on next Tuesday. You've got that, Sarah. Yep. Tuesday at five. Yay. Yay, I know. Yay. But we got to do, somehow we got to, we got to get through this stuff. I mean, this has been a very productive meeting tonight, but it's been a long meeting as well. And I would also suggest that we defer discussing, or pass over discussing fines for, it wouldn't be Robert Bowers and Down Street, it'd be Down Street right there, the ones who own the property. Robert Bowers owns the house and is the offender and Down Street owns the property. Yeah, let's pass over it. Okay. Do they have an executive director yet? Do you know? Yes, yeah, they do. And I've, I've spoken with her. He's new, like he's not interim. I think she's, I think she's the real thing. Good. Yeah. I haven't seen that yet. Okay. Just, just quickly, I will zip through these last things. So I apologize it's taking so long, but any update on the zoo situation? Ah, yes, that seems to be, that seems to be rectified. The, she's got Carol has new fences up and a neighbor who has been contacting me daily with reports of the animals has said that they are now behaving themselves. So that seems to be really, really improved. That's the one blessing in this whole spring. And I think it's the same neighbor who's updating me as well. I think that's true. Perfect. Perfect. I would say eternal, when it comes to dealing with, with Carol, eternal vigilance is the watchword, but we all drive by there enough of things seem to change and we seem to have people who are keeping an eye. But I'm glad, I'm glad that it's been resolved very well. Well, approving minutes from April 5th, the select board meeting is their motion. Move approval. Come in. Thank you. Okay, second. And all those in favor, moving the minutes. Aye. Aye. Being opposed. I'm not really sure what, what this one is, except I, I did get an email from, for Grumbit Bennett, discussion of rack space access. I can talk about it a little bit and I think Dorenda will, will back me up here with more detail if I don't get it. But and Dorenda and I had several email conversations going back and forth because the RB tech folks set up the, the email address which Dorenda and Cheryl share so that it required two step authentication. And you may remember when you first signed on, we had to do that once, but this was an ongoing thing. And then they offered several other alternatives using an authenticator. And then Dorenda and I think both felt that that was not really necessary in this case. They have some paranoia about it not being protected because these are financials, the things not being protected as much as they would like. Although I don't, I think I'm right about this, that Dorenda and I agreed that this is probably fine having the one step login. So I in fact told them to change it to the one step. I told Dorenda I'm perfectly comfortable setting this up this way. I think we're monitoring everything as closely as we can. If somebody were to get into a system or have a bug, we're going to catch that fast. We're in there all the time, all day every day. So and it's pretty unlikely that we're going to be open this because we've got all the other protections in place. We have a very hard network. So it was a few days before we heard back from RB Tech, but they wanted us to sign off on limiting, I guess there was like a limit to their liability, Dorenda, that they, yeah, okay. So they didn't want to make the change unless we absolved them from liability by changing this to the just a regular sign on, like we all have. And I felt, as Dorenda and I talked about this, my feeling was that the board should vote on it. It shouldn't be, you know, me trying to represent the board or Dorenda's treasurer did it ought to come, you know, to us as a governing body to make a decision. So that's where we are. Dorenda, did I get that correct? Yeah, from what they told me is everybody, he can't turn off one person that everybody actually has this double often. That's what he told me, he said, he can't just turn off one. And I said, well, nobody seems to have the issue except for Sheryl and I. And I don't know if it's- I definitely do not have it. Really do. So the budget committee email that you just set up, I've been in there a couple of times and it says that it'll only occur the first time. But I went back in today and I shared that email with the rest of the budget committee and it looks like it's requesting that again, which creates problems if my phone number is attached to the authentication process and I'm trying to share that email with three other folks. That's exactly what's happening with us. And I think it has something to do with the IP address. So every time you try to sign in from a different IP address it's registered to a different IP address. And so I think that's what's creating the problem. But the only way you can get around it is to download this Google Authenticator and I'm not gonna- I don't feel I should have to download that to my phone in order to conduct town business. And I'm sure these other people probably don't want that either. And so it is a problem. Like I tried to get in over the weekend when it's all started and I couldn't get in because the code was going to Cheryl. Okay. Yeah. So that's what you're encountering. I agree with both of you 100%. And I think we're all adults and we can be careful enough that we're not including- We all know that our public emails can be subject to review or scrutiny or whatever it is. We're gonna be careful what we put in there. And what is it that they're so worried about that Derinda and Cheryl would be transmitting to each other to be should I pay this invoice? Shouldn't I pay it? Who cares? I mean, I don't see that as being top secret or critical information. To be clear, Peter, what they're concerned with is somebody from the outside coming in and basically hacking into the system. And the two-factor authentication is- Yeah. It's not exactly- I can't really totally, but I'll tell you, I've dealt with this double authentication thing. Banks love the double authentication. If you have to deal with them, they put you in these secret emails, special upside down inside out things, they're unbelievable. And all they're saying is, yes, I agree, I'll meet with you tomorrow at five o'clock for a cup of coffee and they send it to you in some encrypted email. So anyway, I don't think we need it. And let's have a motion that it's a decision of the board that we do away with the double authentication. And I'll sign whatever Ruben wants me to sign as long as it's not too off the wall. Or you can sign it, Phil. Whatever. Would you rather, since you've been dealing with them, why don't we give you the authority to sign it? How about that? Okay. Is that okay? Yeah. So we'll make a motion. Yes. Is a double authentication for all town emails or just the treasure email? We're doing it. Yeah, do away with it. Spike it, kill it. And really, they're asking us to sign a release so liability. Is that what I'm hearing, Steve? Yes. Phil. Yeah. And Randy, I will have the budget committee one set up a different way and get back in touch with you. Okay. There's a way to do it as a list that they won't require that. Okay. So just to be clear, Phil, just to finish this up, I don't mind sending a letter saying, you know, you've explained to us the ramifications of not having the double authentication. And we understand it's your recommendation that we decide not to accept that it shouldn't be some blanket release of liability. I know they sent us one, right? They sent us a form, an actual form they want signed. Yeah. I know I read it over, but I can't remember for the life of me. Just don't sign it. If it addressed as this particular situation, I'm not signing it. But if it's some blanket release of liability. No, no, no, no, no. They really can't do business with them anymore. Right. No, it's got to be just for this issue. I'll look at it. Darindy, you can look at it. We can decide whether it works or not. And we'll go from there. Okay. Okay, good. So wait a minute. Did you guys who were in the middle of a motion, right? You moved to do away with double authentication and all town emails and to inform RB Tech of this decision. And authorize me to sign the waiver. And authorize Phil to sign the waiver. Yes. Right. And is there a second? Not yet. Brandy. So all in favor? Aye. Aye. Okay. I was, I didn't understand when I got that email from Reuben. I didn't understand even what he was talking about. So. Respondent, Sarah. No, just that the town of Worcester is grateful for or the select board member is grateful for the support that you guys gave them the last meeting. That was pretty much it. Yep. And you said that so I saw it. Yeah. Okay. So we're adjourned. We will meet again at five o'clock next Tuesday, specifically to discuss use of the ARPA funds. Look at 745 adjournment right on the agenda dot. Victor has his hand up. Yeah, Victor has his hand up. Be quick, Victor. Okay. I know you don't like us to ask for permission, but maybe next meeting or the one on Tuesday or something. Can we talk about the going to four, 10 hour days? No, that's me. Y'all want, I mean, I can make a declaration, but I don't know if. Didn't we, didn't we make a decision last year about when the four, 10 hour days would start? Yeah. Yeah. There starts next on the first of, first of May and goes through November. And I know some people didn't, didn't like that too well. It doesn't work real great. What I would say is if you want to bring it up as an issue, we should, we should discuss it. I mean, I thought, I thought we pretty well beat it to death the last time. But if it isn't, if it isn't working and we need to change it, then yes, you should bring it up and we should discuss it. The select board is going to, would, would, would decide on it? Or is that a, is that a road commissioner declaration? I only asked that because you, you said that we shouldn't ask for permission. We should tell you what we're doing. Let me close. That's a personnel related issue. I think that that may be something that the select board should vote on. Okay. I'm fine with that. Go ahead, Steve. My point is you wanted to bring it up at the next meeting. And I say no, not at the next meeting. And the reason I say that we just decided to have this strictly for the ARPA funds. And now we're going to get into another discussion. And I say, no, let's stick to our, to our agenda. And put it on. That's fine. And Danny, I respect your statement, but I might add that by the time you get to the next meeting, we'll all be ready. We'll already be in the four days. Well, I mean, that's the way the cookie crumbles. Okay. Yeah, I agree. I agree with that. I know it is an ideal, but if we keep, I mean, look at, look at what happened to us tonight, we let a few things leak in. And the next thing, you know, we've got a two and a half hour meeting in front of us. So we need to deal with ARPA funds and we should, we should focus on that. And, you know, if we need to change, I mean, I'd like, if we're going to change it, I'd like specific information why it's to the town's benefit to change it. Yes, Dorinda. Not to change your mind about when you want to hold this ARPA meeting, but I just want you to know that I did file 10,000, 10 million dollar deduction or whatever it was that. So we're good for a year. So you do have time to address this. My next report isn't due until next March. But I don't want that. That's not to sway you. That's just to let you know where we stand with ARPA. No, I appreciate you. If I expected that you would file it, but thank you. I just, I just think we really need to start thinking about this. I think it's a, and I listened to, I don't know if any of you listened to, I'll just keep you for a second, listen to Phil Scott's news conference today. But he's going back and forth with the legislature about what to do with all the money that's come into the state of Vermont. And, you know, they're not making a lot of progress. Everybody has ideas, but they're not reaching any conclusion. And the legislature and the governor are at odds about it. So I just want to have some kind of process where we can move down a path and make a decision and feel that everybody had a fair opportunity for input. And by everybody, I mean, anybody in town who's interested, not just the select board. But, you know, the whole, when we first started, since we first started talking about this, the whole switch situation has changed. I mean, can we use some of these funds to do some work on our roads? It looks like potentially maybe we can. Can we buy some turnout gear for the fire department? Potentially maybe we can. I mean, that it's just a whole different world with this blanket, whatever we call it that we agree to. So anyway. So just the big question, you're going to put that on the May 3 agenda? Yes. Okay. To Victor's point, I don't think it needs to be put on the agenda because May 1 will be here and they will have moved into a four, 10-hour day work week at that point, given what the select board has already decided a year ago. Yeah, except I think at any time we can change that, Randy would notice. So we could say, and I'm not saying we should, but we could say, you know, effective June 1st, we're going back to the regular work schedule if we choose to. I mean, we didn't promise them we were going to keep that forever. So I don't, I mean, maybe somebody else disagrees, but I don't see why we couldn't change it if we chose so. Yeah, I think we can. Rod, let's have the discussion and see where it, see where it, see where it goes. Okay. Okay. Thank you all. Have a good evening. Have a good evening, guys. The spring really does come. Good night, everyone. Good night. Good night.