 We're glad to know you're still there. It's still the breakfast on Plus TV Africa. And now we're talking about the fact that exiting oil firms have polluted Niger Delta with 36.1 million litres of crude in eight years. To discuss with us is Mr. Desmondo, Maja Kudumi, an environmental activist. Good morning and welcome to the program, sir. Good morning. Good to be here. Good morning. Thank you for joining us. There is 6.1, the numbers they are banding in here is quite much, but they are exiting oil firms. Let's just start with the title of this topic we're talking about in eight years. This much is what has been used to pollute the land in Niger Delta. Let's just hear your comments, first of all. And those figures as high as they are, are the ones that we are aware of. The situation there is that we don't even know the exact amount of fuel and oil that has been extracted anyway. So it is absolutely, totally shocking and very, very worrisome that this amount of spillage and probably more could have allowed to be happening in this location. We've known about this for decades, for decades. And when we confronted the people who are doing the major extraction, that is the, mainly the foreign oil companies, a lot of the argument was that, well, this is just people who are stealing from the pipelines. It is so unconscionable because what that oil does to the environment there is horrendous. And remember when we're talking about the environment, we're really referring to the people's life support system. It is destroying it. It is just totally unconscionable, especially because we've been aware of it for quite some time. Wow. Wow. How could we? How could we allow this to happen to these people? You don't even do this to the animals. In fact, you shouldn't even do it to the plant life. Let alone, let alone to your fellow citizens in this great country, Nigeria. And that's part of the reason why it's happening is because this is actually one of the, if not the greatest country on the planet. There you go. I keep wondering, is it not part of the contract given to anybody who wants to come and explore this oil in our locality to clean up the environment or to not spill this oil like this? How come this is going on for quite some time? These figures, as they say, are for eight years, but we've been having these things for decades, like you said. So is this not supposed to be part of the contract? Or why is this happening? Absolutely. Spot on. Spot on. But then it's more profitable to be able to ignore that aspect of it. And then you just focus on extracting, extracting and selling, selling. If you now have to spend time on renewing your pipelines, because that's part of the regional pipelines that are rusted, they're breaking. If you now have to spend time monitoring what's going on in terms of the pipelines being ruptured because people want to be stealing the oil. If you have to spend time on money policing, all that. If you have to spend time on money policing, the amount that's stolen, that's just taken in barges and big ships and so on. It's not going to be as profitable. And this is really the fundamental issue. And it's not just the Nigerian problem, especially when we're talking of oil, the fossil fuels. It's that people have put profits ahead of people and planet. And as a result of that, especially in this particular location that we're talking about, people are dying. People are dying. If you look at some of the figures, there's a location called the Elena Local Government. If you look at some of the figures that came out from the United Nations report in 2017, and you just pull me on one particular chemical that pollutes the ground and the groundwater when oil spills. And that chemical is called benzene. Now, the accepted limit of benzene has gone over not 90 times, but in some areas of that Elena, 900 times above safe limits. And that's why the people in Elena, they have reported that on a regular basis every weekend they're burying their children because benzene is a highly carcinogenic agent and it causes cancer in the bone marrow, especially of children. Whoa! So the people who are not following the contracts and the people who are aligned and not to follow what the contract specifies need to be extremely careful, extremely careful for their souls. Because what they are showing, what they are showing into people's lives must come back to them. This is fundamental law of the universe. And it's reflected in every scripture that is worthy of being called a scripture. It's there in the Holy Bible, the Holy Quran, the Bhagavad Gita, the Jewish stress, it is there. The law of retribution, the law of karma, the law of consequences. And if you are knowingly aligning a situation that is going to cause the premature death of hundreds of thousands of children and it's going to cause sickness to hundreds of thousands of people, Oh Lord, have mercy. I don't know if you will have mercy on your soul. So it's a wake-up call. It's really a wake-up call to deep repentance of what on earth do we think we're doing? We know that when the armed robber shoots somebody because he wants to make profit over that person's life, we know that he's a criminal. Now what of the people who allow benzine to toxify an area 900 times above the safe limit and children have to die? So what is the government doing about this? What is the government doing to ensure that this contract is being repelled because they're not supposed to spill on our waters? Because I saw that about 36.1 million can fill about 1,090 oil tankers. That's a lot. So imagine 1,090 tankers in a road. That's a lot of tankers, right? And they're all filled with oil. And 75 of these spills went directly into the sea. So you're still seeing this village on farmlands as well. So what is the government doing to ensure that this doesn't happen? Because from what you've said, it has an impact on the people. They're dying. And obviously, one of the government's mandate is to protect the lives and properties of Nigerians. So the lives of Nigerians are super important. They have to live. So if people are dying, is the government doing anything to, you know, even those firms that are spilling so much oil that is worth 1,090 tankers and killing the children of Nigeria? Exactly, exactly. That's a very fundamental question again, you know. Then they're obviously not doing what they're supposed to do. A servant leader, civil servants, that's a job discretion. So you're supposed to serve the civilian society. So serve the people. Take care of their, look after, protect their lives and livelihoods. And this is not being done. And it's particularly worrisome because we know what needs to be done. We've been told since 2017. UNEP came up with it. And in fairness, you know, there has been some moves from the various ministries who are concerned. The agencies are concerned. But somehow, when they try to implement this, as soon as the funding comes out, boom, it doesn't get done. It doesn't get done. And as I said earlier, this is very, very worrisome for the people responsible, okay? Very, very worrisome because consequences must come. And our hope and our prayer is that the consequences will not be just massive eruptions of disconsent and, you know, amounts because people feel they've been neglected and neglected and neglected. And then they're seeing the people who are responsible for neglecting them, having a very, very high-level lifestyle and these, you know, triggers of some kind of terrible reactions and so on. This could happen. This could happen. It's, you know, we're sitting on a time bomb, you know? It's like being on a keg of petrol and there's a fire coming closer to the keg and it's an open keg. And they miss the vapor, the fumes out there. And, you know, that fire doesn't have to be a very big flame. It could just be a small matchstick coming closer. And there will come a time when that matchstick ignites the vapor and the vapor hits the keg. And boom, God forbid, if Nigeria goes that way, it'll make the Sierra Leone, Liberia, Rwanda problems that happen. Where, you know, genocide was perpetrated. It'll make that look like a children's tea party. God forbid that this should be our fortune. But we're heading towards that if the right measures are not taken. And this, you know, cleaning up this area is just one of the several right measures that the leadership must take. And, you know, all I can admonish them is that God is not mocked. Whatsoever you sow, you shall reap. This is fundamental. This is like two plus two equals four. So you can't escape that. You can't deny that. And the only way to redress it, because you haven't been doing it for quite a long time now. You haven't been fulfilling your responsibilities and ensuring that this place is very, very well policed, that the oil wells are very, very well protected, that the decrepit infrastructure is looked after. You know, the things are just done in the right way. You haven't been doing this for a long time. Whoever it is that's responsible. We're talking of the leadership here. So the only way, the only way that you're going to avoid a terrible, terrible condemnation of your soul. This is real stuff. This is scripture. If you don't believe this, then don't bother going to church. Don't bother going to the mosque. Don't bother worshiping the Almighty God. Who has told you that he is not mocked. What you sow, you reap. And you see it in life. I'm a farmer. When I sow cassava, I've never ever been able to harvest cocoa. I've never been able to take oranges from my lemon tree, despite the fact that both are citrus, because I sowed orange seed. Come on. They should wake up to that reality and repent, repent, repent and do the right thing now. Whoever is in that chain of responsibility, be it in the ministry of environment, be it in the NDCC, whoever is there in those various chains of command for the sake of your soul. You better do the right thing now. Okay. I'm backtracked as much as you can. It's not too late, but it will be soon. When we were talking about sowing cassava and reaping cocoa, it just reminded me of a song, eventually by someone who has your same surname, Majek Fashek. But what worries me, really worries me is that what we are talking about today is that the people who have polluted this land with 36.1 million liters, which is a very modest figure, according to what you said, because this is what we know. We don't know what else is there. These people are leaving. They're exiting oil firms that have polluted this Niger Delta with 36.1 million liters of crude in eight years. Now they are leaving. Whose responsibility is it going to be to clean up this place? Is it the government or is it them before they leave? Can they be allowed to leave after polluting the land that much? Just so many questions in my head. Who takes the responsibility now? Exactly. How can they be allowed to leave after doing that? Especially some of their profits. If you look at the profits that some of those companies made just in 2023 alone, in particular one of those companies, check out these figures. You were making $87,000 every day for the last, wait for it now, for the last 2,000 years. You would not have made as much profit as this particular company that is exiting Nigeria made in 2023 alone. We're talking of billions of dollars. The money is there to do it and they are just being allowed to let off the hook like that. It's incredible. Again, it's down to the leadership. The leadership need to be extremely firm, seize the assets, do whatever you have to do, take them to the world criminal court of justice and say, we will not allow you to perpetrate this type of genocidal activity, infanticidal activity because many, many, many children have died as a result of what has happened under your watch, under you being there, extracting this resource from us. It's mind-boggling. Again, the laws of repercussions are coming down and there's an indication that there's a fast tracking. Somebody said recently that the floodgates of the laws of retribution are opening and we're seeing some signs of that. Some people are totally unexpected, have been taken out or being convicted or being arrested. There's something going on. So yeah, yeah, they shouldn't be allowed. No way. How can you come up and do this through poison all over the place? Because things are getting a bit rough. Okay, we're going and then you sell it off for some. It's unconscionable and they should not be allowed to leave just like that. Mike, I don't know. You've talked about the governments supposed to be proactive. They're supposed to do a lot of things and all that. In a case where we find our governments always throwing blames to the previous governments, this government comes and tells you the previous government is the one that failed to do what they're doing. In fact, even now, this government is telling us that the suffering in the land is as a result of the policies of the previous government of Muhammad al-Buhari and all that. So these things always happen. Do you think there will be any government that will have the will to do what they are supposed to do or is there an alternative because it's not the government that is dying. It's the people of the Niger Delta that are dying. So is there an alternative to addressing this issue or do you think the government can address this issue? And how do we even go from here? Absolutely, absolutely. Well, we call ourselves a democratic dispensation and as soon as we can actualize that and actually have all of the people, for the people, by the people kind of democracy, then you will now see these sort of things. And again, the leadership themselves have to really understand the job description. Yeah, civil servants, we might give you some regard and respect, but civil servants. And we've seen them appreciating that in many other democracies. The one of Britain, for instance, they've shifted their prime minister once satisfied with one prime minister, got rid of him, brought another one in, they once satisfied with that one, put her out, brought another one in. And it looks as if this one, possibly his party will not get a foothold again in the next election. So that's obviously a place where the rulership of the people, for the people, by the people is actually operating, as opposed to a demonstration of crazy kind of situation whereby the people's voices are not really adhered to. Yeah, so this is the hope. This is the hope that as we go forward, we will be able to get more responsible for leadership, leadership who are responding to the people. However, I still have a lot of hope that even the incumbent, the incumbents right now, no matter how they got in, will have a renewal of their minds, will have a change of their attitude, will open their eyes and see what is going on and realize that it can't last like this. It can't last. And this is actually interesting, not just Nigeria. Okay, so we have to go now. We wish we had enough time, but we have to go now. We're so sorry. Well, I think we're just going to bring you back so we can have more in-depth, because this is a really big issue. I mean, we're talking about the lives of Nigerians is a big issue, but yes. Thank you. Thank you so much. All right, that's it on this segment. So we've been talking about the fact that exiting oil firms have been polluting the Niger Delta with 36.1 million litres of crude in eight years. And our guess was Desmond Magikunjumi is an environmental activist and we've just been looking into this. Anyways, we'll go on a quick break when we return and we'll be looking at our next hot topic. Please stay with us.