 I always loved about strength. It's like you can take away that focus, that obsessive focus that initially brought them there, right? Like to, you know, change their body, but also to like hormonally, like it, everything's in such better balance when, you know, your strength is moving forward and you're doing everything correct. Cause you're getting adequate, you know, recovery as well. That has to be a part of the piece of the formula for everything to succeed. Well, to build muscle and to build strength, your body has to organize its hormones, uh, in a way to do so. And so a balanced youthful hormone profile does that an unbalanced, uh, unhealthy hormone profile, good luck trying to get stronger as a man with really low testosterone and high cortisol, like good, good luck trying to get stronger as a female where your estrogen or progesterone are off and your cortisol is really high and you also have low testosterone. Testosterone is important to women as well. Welcome back. It's mind pump time. Here's the giveaway for today's episode maps, symmetry, the newest maps program, super popular, help balance out the body. We're going to give this away for free, but you got to do the following to win. Leave a comment below in the first 24 hours that would drop this episode. Subscribe to this channel and click on notifications. Do all those things. And if we'd like your comment, we'll notify you and you'll get free access to maps, symmetry. Also, uh, we got a big promotion going on this month. It's summertime. So we've got two fat burning promotions going on right now. One is a bundle, meaning it's multiple map workout programs. So here's what it is. It's the shredded summer bundle. This includes maps, aesthetic maps, hit maps, prime and the intuitive nutrition guide. So all that together 50% off. And then we have the individual program maps hit also 50% off. So you can do either a bundle or just one program, your choice or both. If you're interested, go to maps, fitness products.com and then use the code June 50 for that discount. All right, here comes the show. The best metric that'll tell you if you're on the right track with your training and diet is strength. It's really hard to have a bad diet, bad training program and have your strength increase. Yeah, I like this one because it's not obviously perfect. Uh, no, because when you're brand new, it's that you can see strength gains, even with a crappy diet. You somewhat, right? Yes, definitely. Yeah, no, if you were, if you are eating terrible and don't even have a great training program, but you've never or haven't worked out in a very long time, almost anything you're going to see. That's why it's not perfect. That's one reason why it's not perfect, but ultimately if you had to pick one metric, like if I had a client and I saw consistent strength gains, like it's hard to get stronger and be unhealthy, right? It's hard to get stronger and have terrible sleep and terrible exercise program. Well, and also you're not going to have perpetual strength. Like it's not this linear thing that's always going to be progressing. So you have to kind of look at other variables to bring in to focus on too, but it's definitely the least. So it's the most objective in the least objective. Yes. And it's, it usually means usually, not always, but usually that you're doing most things right. You know, like, I mean, I'll give you guys a scenario. Everything has to stack up. Yeah, I'll give you guys a scenario. You got a client trying to lose weight. They're on a, you're putting them on a calorie deficit and their strength is going up in the gym. You're like, we are doing great, right? Or, you know, they're trying to do correctional exercise and their strength goes up, or they come to hire you for pain management and their strength goes up. Like you name it, if you see strength gains going up, it's one of the best signs you could possibly see. Like when I would see that and when I would, because I would track their workouts and I'd say, okay, you did three more reps or you added 10 pounds and your form got better. I knew that for the most part, we're probably on track. We're doing pretty damn good. And I like it. I like measuring strength. Like anytime somebody asks me a question about their exercise programming, one of the first questions I ask is, why are you getting stronger? How was your strength feel? That being said, the only anomaly is really the person that I can think of is the person that I was talking about. Right? The brand new person who's lifting. How long would you say that lasts for somebody? Right? Like you have a shitty diet. You're not really, you don't have the best training program. You're following some generic thing you found online or some gimmicky, you know, weight loss program, whatever that you found. How long do you think you get away with seeing gains and results from that before that really? Strength-wise? Yeah. Boy, depending on how bad the diet and the training program is, I'd say between one to six months. I'd say after six months, it'd be pretty rare. Yeah, I'd say even sooner than that. Yeah. So, I mean, it'd be really hard, right? And I say one month as little as one month because it's really bad programming, then you'll start to, you'll see the strength go up a little bit and then even start to come down. Like if they're just constantly doing too much and eating too little type of deal. Yeah, I'd say like one to three months. I'm trying to recall like clients where I've got them and typically that's when we would get them is after they had already done their own thing, right? So that was common. Like I get somebody who was like, I was doing this and that it was working so good for me. And then this happened and now I'm not seeing any results. Therefore I'm here and then I get them and they've already crashed dieted like crazy. They've already been training seven days a week, high-intensity circuit. I'll give you guys an example like why this came to me. I was hanging out with my family this weekend and my sister, who there's four of us siblings, okay? And she has probably some of the best muscle building genetics out of all of us, but she never really likes to train too much or whatever. She's done other things, but whatever. She started training and she started training properly. She's hired a trainer and I know this trainer so I know she's doing the right thing. And I hadn't seen her for like, I've been seeing her here and there because she'll come in here to work out. But I hadn't seen her dressed in normal clothes for like maybe two months and I saw her and I'm like, oh man, I could tell right away, right? And I told her, I said, I could tell you've been training properly. Like how much weight have you lost? She goes, actually the scale hasn't changed at all. I said, well, are you stronger? And she goes, yeah, I'm way stronger. I'm like, you built muscle and burn body fat for sure because and in Jessica's same thing, she said the same thing. She goes, you look smaller, but you probably built muscle and burn body fat. And it was a strength. She's like, oh, I'm way stronger on all my lifts. I'm like, well, if you're getting stronger, you're doing a lot of things. Yeah, moving the right direction. Now, how important do you think the mindset is that the client needs to have in this direction? Meaning, so on a recent like back half call, right? When we're answering live questions, I brought up what just happened the other night with Katrina and I. And one of the things I had noticed is she had been training very consistently since January. And she was asking me on, okay, we got Cabo around the corner, how do I accelerate my results, getting ready for that? And of course, her initial, should I start cutting calories? Should I start the cardio? Should I start these things? And I have intermittently seen her training. I haven't been, obviously I haven't been with her every training session, but I've been kind of watching what she's doing. And I know when she's really getting after it. And I know when she's kind of going through the motions and training. And I see the weight she's moving when she's squatting and deadlifting. And I've been with her and she's lifted way more weight before. She looks great. She's had a great progress. But one of the things I said to keep the progress going or kick it back up is to really focus on strength. And she's like, well, it's not, she's like, I'm following, I think she was following anabolic right now. I'm following anabolic. So it's a strength-based program. Like, I mean, that's what I'm doing. I said, yeah, but you're kind of choosing the weights that you know you can do and kind of going through the motion, which is great. That combined with you eating well, it's been over the course of this. That's a great long-term approach. Yeah, you've been progressing slowly, but now you're asking me, hey, I got three weeks. I really want to accelerate that. And your first initial thing is, hey, let's cut calories, let's move more. And I go, I wouldn't do that. Yeah, actually what I would do is like, let's get after the intensity and the mindset inside there and like, you know, when was the last time you got back up to your old deadlift numbers and your old squatting numbers? Like, why don't you start progressing that way and pick up the intensity? And she's like, well, you're right. I really, I haven't pushed that at all. I like that for a few different reasons. One, when you build strength and build muscle, there's a lot of side effects that are favorable from that, right? You want to get leaner? Well, you build more muscle or you move in that direction. Your body learns to burn more calories, makes it easy. To your, it means you're doing things right. You're probably feeding yourself appropriately. It's objective, weight loss and how you look in the mirror, very subjective. Like how many times have you had a client? I've trained people for a long periods of time. I know you guys have too. And they would complain about how bad they looked. Oh my God, I don't like the way I look. And then like 10 years later, they see a picture of themselves from 10 years prior. Like, wow, I look so good. And I always remind them, you know how bad you thought you looked? Yeah. 10 years ago, it's so subjective. But the number on the bar or the dumbbell, that's objective. Well, that's why I always loved about strength. It's like, you can take away that focus, that obsessive focus that initially brought them there. Right? Like to, you know, change their body. But also too, like hormonally, like everything's in such better balance when, you know, your strength is moving forward and you're doing everything correct because you're getting adequate, you know, recovery as well. That has to be a part of the piece of the formula for everything to succeed. Well, to build muscle and to build strength, your body has to organize its hormones in a way to do so. And so a balanced youthful hormone profile does that. An unbalanced, unhealthy hormone profile. Good luck trying to get stronger as a man with really low testosterone and high cortisol. Like good luck trying to get stronger as a female where your estrogen or progesterone are off and your cortisol is really high. And you also have low testosterone. Testosterone's important to women as well. It's really hard, right? So if you see strength training in the upward direction, and again, it's not perfect. Like if you've been working out for years and years, like I've been working out for, you know, three decades almost, I'm not gonna see crazy strength gains anymore. At this point, I think I've hit my peak and you know, now I'm kind of maintaining. But especially in the first five years. Yeah. Like it's gotta be one of the best. Yeah, it's gotta be one of the best metrics you could possibly. And even now still, if I see my strength waiver, but when I see it move up on the uptrend, I know I'm kind of doing things right. Well, it's also a great way to, and again, it's not perfect, but it's also a great way to ensure that you hang on to as much muscle as you're going into it. Like right, we're going to go in summer. So I know a lot of questions around getting lean. And most people want to get lean. Frenzy to cut down. But they also want to keep and maintain all the work that they put in either over winter or the last few months. Like that was like one of the things I challenged her when she was kind of arguing a little bit. Like why, we only have three weeks, why wouldn't I start cutting calories and pick up cardio? It's the last bit right now. I was like, well, do you want to keep all the muscle that you've worked hard for since January? Well, one of the ways to ensure that is for us to still stay strength focused right now, let's just pick up your intensity in the gym. You know, it's funny about that too. Speaking more specifically about Katrina, she's always very lean. She walks around in the teens, which is lean for a woman. With when you're already lean, if you want to look better, oftentimes getting leaner doesn't do it. Gaining muscle does. Definition, yes. Yeah, you build like, if you're a guy, for example, and you're 8%, 9% body fat, you probably would look better gaining three or four pounds of muscle than you would going down to 7% or 6% body fat, right? And I know she knows this because she's seen her runner body and then she's seen her squatting, deadlifting body. And it's night and day difference as far as what it looks like. And so that's all I needed to say to convince her to focus that way was, do you want to keep on this muscle that you've worked hard for? And she knows that she doesn't want to lose that because she knows that's what has given her that shape that she likes and desires. And so one of the ways that we can ensure that as we are getting closer to this time for her is that let's stay strength focused right now and really push the intensity that way instead of doing what a lot of people want to do, which is the cut calories and intensity as far as movement and cardio goes because that sends an opposite signal to the body. And what's more likely to happen is that she's sure she might lose a little bit more fat or lose weight on the scale, but the likelihood that she's going to keep all muscle is not very high. She's probably gonna pair some of that down. That's right. Yeah, speaking of which, I was just talking about my sister and everything and I see her working out and I know my brother, what happens to him when he works out? Man, I just, it was really hard realizing I had the worst genetic. I had the family. I had all my siblings. I think I got the same way. I'm the one that I train the most. That's what you're so obsessed about, dude. I think we're both like that. I was trying to grow, dude. I was like doing everything I could to hang into like strength. Oh, you're trying to get tall? Yeah, bro, that's 6'7, my bro is 6'3 and I was like, this sucks. Yeah, no, I'm not short. My sister has long muscle bellies like her calves and she's got quads and hams and I look at her triceps and I'm down here and I'm looking at her and I'm like, man, you just started working out. What the hell, dude? And then my brother, you guys know my brother, he'll come in here and lift more weight than most guys will work enough for you. And I'm like, jeez, man, I gotta work so hard to do this. I got the worst genetics. But Justin's right though. That's also what made you probably go down the rabbit hole, dude, of like having to try and figure everything out, right? Yeah, I know. So your greatest strength. Yeah, that was me. I was like, at least I can be stronger than both of them. Yeah. I'll put you in your place, dude, your big ass body. That's hilarious. Dude, did you guys, so what did you guys think of that study I sent you guys that showed that, and it just highlights just how powerful strength training and resistance training is. The study that showed that three seconds. Oh yeah, it's fascinating. Three seconds of strength training was enough to cause measurable strength gains in individuals. What did you guys think about that? It's almost hilarious. It's like, wow, that little bit is gonna move, you know, that much. Yeah, so what they did in the study, and it's, I mean, look, if you had told me you were gonna do the study, and then you had asked me, what do I think the results would be? I would have gotten pretty close. I think you guys would have too. Now, by the way, this is not how you should always work out. I don't think this would work forever at all. However, it highlights the power of strength training and just how effective it is at getting your body to adapt in positive ways. So in the study, they took individuals and they had them do different types of muscle contractions at high intensity for three seconds. I saw mainly bicep curls. That's what they used, right? That's what they used. So they took some people and they did an isometric hold for three seconds at maximal intensity. They did some with concentric, right? Which is curling up at high intensity. And then the other one was eccentric, okay? All of them saw strength gains that were measurable. The eccentric went 10%. Three second. It was one rep of eccentric loading a day and they got 10% increase in strength just from doing it. Now, what I don't remember in the study, did they manipulate the weight and the tempo based on what, if they were doing a concentric, eccentric or isometric? It was maximizing intensity though. It was maximal load. So it wasn't like, yeah. So it was like a really hard load. So what's important to note for the audience then is that It was maximal effort. You can do four times the amount of load on the eccentric motion that you can on a concentric motion. So you can lift way more. So keep that into consideration that they probably in the study used 25 pound dumbbells for the concentric, right? So someone curled it up 25 and they probably used a hundred pounds to resist on the way down. So that's why you saw. E eccentric causes the most muscle damage is the most responsible for muscle growth but it's also the one that takes the longest to recover from. Yeah. But that's part of the reason why is cause you can load it and it's also where you are normally time and attention is longer. Now the theory is the theory is with the sliding filament theory. And I don't know if this is, I don't know if they've changed this but the way I learned it was, you know, muscle fibers run next to each other and they hook to each other to contract. And when you're lengthening those hooks have to break off and that causes muscle damage. So it's a more damaging concern. Nonetheless, the point is name any other form of exercise where you do three seconds and you see a 10% increase like a stretch. Now, did they, did they repeat that every single day? They did this daily. Daily. Yeah. So that also plays a factor. Yeah. And I mean, this really highlights just again how powerful strength training. One of the reasons why I think it's such a valuable form of exercise is that the average person can do two days a week, 45 minutes of strength training done properly. I mean, they're not going to get it body but they're not going to get ripped or anything like that from it but most people want to be fit and healthy and two days a week, 45 minutes for most people you could do that for the rest of your life and reap incredible benefits. Did the study disclose what type of people like as far as beginners, novice, advanced? Oh, I believe that they were, I'm going to assume they were beginners. I should pull it up. Yeah, it'd be interesting to see because I actually think that, I mean, I've told you guys this before in the podcast multiple times and I feel like I continue to see this as I age that these principles or is, seems to be compounding as I get older. So as I get older and I've had more decades under my belt of lifting consistently, I feel that I have to do less work to build or maintain muscle. You have a high muscle intelligence. Right, that's what it, that's what it, It sticks around. Yeah. It really does. I mean, there's strength. That's why I'm asking this because I'm wondering if this is a newbies, I would wonder like, would I get better, even better benefits? Because the intensity and the strength. Yes, because I, think about that like. That's not a bad point. No, okay. When you were a 17 year old kid when you were first starting to lift and let's say you're in this study, you're brand new. You, in your head, trying to remember about what you were bicep curling back then and what would be. Or even just the force and the intensity. Yes, and the ability for you to control it, to be able to focus on it. Now you go in this study and the same rules apply for you, but with the low that you can handle on it, I would make the case that you could probably outperform the people they're probably using in this study. It causes more damage and all that stuff. Now, in comparison to more appropriate traditional strength training, obviously it's not gonna. Okay, so they were young sedentary individuals. Is that the same one? Cause what I read, what I read Doug was. Andrew's saying it is. It is, okay. Cause I'm looking up and I was a study in Japan and it was 39 college students. So none of them worked out, but they were, they were young men. Yeah, young sedentary individuals were assigned. So, and I feel like that this, I don't know how, I mean, I don't think this would continue. But again. No, I guess find me a form of exercise and even 10% increase. Of course, of course it wouldn't continue, but it just, I get it, it does. It highlights how powerful, just a little bit of strength training. It also, you know what it also highlights? It also highlights the studies and these training modalities, like the, what's it called? The ART or the. Oh, they are super intense. Yeah, where they pull from. To try and make the case. Very, very good point. ARX. Yes. Very, very careful. Do not extrapolate from this that what you need to do is one max out eccentric loaded exercise. Forever. Five days a week. Yeah. They're going to use this study 100%. That's exactly what they do. And it's not this exact one, maybe that they used to prove that, but that's exactly the type of stuff that they'll pluck from and be like, Oh, this is all I need to do now is do this. It's the biohack. Yes. Well, in fact, I remember we interviewed Dave Asper years ago. That's what he said. He said he does 10 minutes all out once a day. Yeah. Because he probably read a few studies like this because it is really impactful. Like you don't have to do a whole lot, but at the same time, again, some of those benefits tend to tape. What I would love to see though is the point that I was trying to make with young sal versus older sal is like, how much would that work for you at 17 versus how much would that work? Like, it'd be interesting to say, let's pretend you completely cut out all the volume training of all the sets. How much would I keep? Yeah. How much would you be, where you're at right now? And that's all you did. How much would you be able to keep? I would think you would be able to keep more than the newbie that would be able to make the gains. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. You should be able to. I feel like I could keep a majority of my gains now, not progress, but maintain a lot of them with like two full body workouts a week. Well, it's sort of, I'm trying to think of how to compare this, but it's like general play, GBP, like for kids, right? Like in terms of like how you get exposed to like a multitude of different types of stimulus, like at first. So it's like more play focused. And then you start kind of refining it. And so you're getting like, you know, you know, a more team sports focus, like you get more into weightlifting. Now you get really, you know, specified. That's not a bad point. If you teach, if you teach a kid how to ride a bike and they ride a bike for six months and then don't ride it for six years, they're going to get back on the bike and not remember much. But if you've been riding it for years and you stopped for six years. Well, there's a lot of benefits that are unforeseen. Right? Like in terms of like the predictiveness of like, so if you get into another sport where you've had exposure to a lot of different types of movements in the other sport, that will play itself into, you know, once you start going in that like specific direction, in comparison to somebody that was just taking with one sport, right? They get really good at those patterns and those sequences of what they're experiencing. But but the unforeseen variables are not, they're terrible at. Well, yeah, I mean, they're, now obviously in this study, they're using something so basic and simple, like a bicep curl. Not tons of skill involved. Right. You know, exactly where you're going. Right. But the squat, right? And Matt is like, and this is something that I noticed, it took me many, many years to get to a 225 squat. I mean, lots of years of consistent training, just to get that. I could fall off the wagon for months right now. Okay. Of inconsistently training and still get under the barbell and easily do 225. I mean, my muscles may be shaking and I'll get really sore from it. So, but I mean, I could control that weight and feel, and then my legs respond right to that. Whereas I could have been training, there was years in my career of lifting of training three, five days a week with legs in there and not be able to do that weight. Where now I can not train for months, get under the bar, do a set or two with 225, and instantly my legs respond to that. It is weird how muscle hangs around in a particular way. Like I have family members that were, you know, used to be male carriers and they retired, you know, decades and they still have these really muscular looking calves. And they just go on, huh? Sorry. Or, you know, so it is very interesting, right? It's like, obviously nothing's permanent, but it is of all the adaptations that you get from exercise. It's the one that tends to stick around the longest and then the side effects of it are so beneficial to all the things that people are after. But again, I can't think of anything else you could do for three seconds in a day and see a 10% increase. That's a big deal. That's a measurable improvement. Like what else can you do for three seconds? Like run as hard as you can for three seconds. You're not gonna see a 10% increase in stamina. I mean, when I read some of that, it just made, like, and you're in a perfect place because you're in such great shape right now. It'd be so fun. Obviously you would want to do this because you're not trying to lose all your muscle that you've gained, but it would be really fun to see if like, you know, just pick the hand for like a squat, the deadlift, like a couple of movements and you only do, you know, a couple of minutes of it a day, just at a, you know, maximal intensity like that. How much could you hang on for how long could you hang on to the physique? I bet you because it's novel, I might even gain it first. I know, that's what's kind of- Because it's different, you know? I'd be interesting. It'd be interesting to see how much that you could hang on to by doing that. I'm telling you, I'm so blown away by that right now at my age, I really- Yeah, like how hard would it have been for you to maintain the amount of muscle and strength you have now in your 20s? Yeah, it was five to seven days a week. I wasn't even that big. And you had to push. It took me until I was almost 30 before I saw, it was like, I think it was 27. I should say it was 27 I think when I finally got over 200 pounds. Like me shredded on stage at 3% is 203. You know, it would be hard for you to get below 200 pounds now if you try it. Oh, I don't think I could do it. I mean, I said, when I got, so when I showed up to nationals, some of the most, probably the best shredded physique that I had brought, it was sub 3%. I dunked at 3% two weeks out and continued to die. So I was sub 3% on that stage. I was 203. So that's, there's no way I think I could get below it. Yeah, that's a lot of muscle. Not without intentionally losing a bunch of muscle also. That's very interesting. And that was something that I worked my whole first 10 years of lifting to try and reach. Wow. And then now it just, it maintains like that. So there, I mean, there's, it's cool. It's really, and I didn't think about that. That's not something that, and I like talking about on the show because I'd like to motivate the younger generation, that should be, I wish someone would have like really told me that. All that work stays. Yeah. Like that, that's something that what I know now, that would have been very motivating for me to like stay on it. Oh, I know, I guarantee, I tell you this right now, 100% as I get older, I guarantee my training is going to eventually morph and evolve to, you know, I'll be staying active every day, but I'll probably be lifting twice a week. And it'll be full body into my 60s, 70s and beyond. And I know I'll maintain good movement and strength from it. As long as they stay active on the other days, of course there's value in being active every day. So I don't want to, you know, mislead anybody and say, oh, you just work out twice a week and then the rest of the day, you know. No, I hope that's not how this is being interpreted, right? I mean, I just think it's a really encouraging thing because sometimes when you're, you know, and I know there's got to be 20 year olds that are listening to this right now, it can be discouraging. You're working your ass off sometimes when you're really young, trying all these things and pushing really hard and like barely seeing the body change, barely seeing strength go up. And it seems like, oh my God, why do I do all this? Just to be a little bit stronger or a little bit fitter. Well, the irony is on average, I'll ask you guys, on average, it would be a little bit harder on average, I'll ask you guys, on average of all the people you guys train for as long as you train them, all of us had clients towards the end of our career and we got good, that would stay with us for 10 plus years. How many times a week would you train most of your clients? Yeah, two or three times. Probably two, yeah. Two or three times. At the most, right? Did you have any clients, I had almost no clients that I trained more than that. Well, yeah, I had like a few, but honestly the ones that would hire me for more, we just do mobility or do like active recovery days. Exactly. And I would just take them through that, but it wasn't like we were training intensively. Exactly. Anyway, I want to ask you guys about your weekends because I know you guys both did different things and had a lot of stuff. You had a party at your place? Yeah, so we threw a party for my in-laws. It was 50 years of their anniversary together, so. Wow. That's a long time. It's a lot of time that I spent. 50 years, that's some work, man. Yeah, so that was like a staple thing that we wanted to celebrate. So it was like, because it kind of got thrown in our direction in terms of like, let's see who can like throw the party and where and we tried like vineyards and all this stuff and we're like, no, let's just throw it at our place and break it in. I haven't actually thrown a big party at our place yet. So it was like, well, here we go. You know, let's get it all ready. Man, that's a lot of work, dude. That was like, plus in my ass, dude. Is this why you were weed-wacking everything? Weed-wacking, I bought like, I had one of those like battery-powered blowers and it was like, dude, this is not gonna cut it. It like died like a fraction of the way through. So I went and bought like gas-powered ones. Polluting the environment with everything I can now. Yeah. It's a charcoal-powered. Because it gets it done, you know? I thought they already did ban all that. I have an electric one and it sucks, dude. It's terrible. The battery dies. Tesla needs to make one. They don't even last that long. The battery dies so fast. I think that they- You can get like one usage out of it and then you gotta charge it again. Yeah, I think that they're making those illegal, right? Because of- I thought they already were. I thought one of you guys broke it up. California is making everything illegal, dude. Yeah. Hey, how much does it suck being the host of like a party like that big? It's brutal. Yeah. You're probably still cleaning up for it. I'm still. And I mean, I did pretty much all of it the next day too because Courtney had like a hair appointment and then I was like, oh, don't do anything. I'll just come back. And I'm like, let's look at a hab. I can't sit here and look at this mess. You know? Like it was driving me crazy. She was taking a nap. She's right. She's running games. She knows exactly what she's doing with that. But it's fine, dude. It was cool. Everybody had a good time. We got the same band. Like I went to one of Adam and Katrina's part a year there too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That same band we hired them for our place. And they threw down. They did a good job. So everybody had a good time. I've got plenty of beer left. And I'm like shoving it off to my brother-in-law. I'm not going to have it. Did you sing with the band, to be honest? We had a little bit of a session where we're all chopping it up about like, you know, instruments and gigs. Yeah, what's the bandling go like when you go over to come talk to you? Hey, let us know. I'm seven. We'll talk about what they're doing in the recording studio and like, you know, launching an EP that's going to turn into an album. Is that the new electric dual pedal right there? Yeah, yeah. My sweet humbuckers on that Gibson, bro. Well, you must be in a band too. Yeah, like, I do have to throw a little bit of that in there so they know that, like, at least I'm privy to. That they got to be on their game, right? Yeah. They can't be cheating stuff, right? Exactly. I'm painting guys, but also, if you need a backup singer. You ever get people like that when they meet you and they're like, so what do you do? And you're like, oh, I have this fitness pod, whatever. Oh, yeah, I used to lift, you know, in high school. What do you bench, like, 405? No, I know you get that right now. When you're as buff as you are right now and it's like everybody can see it through your shirt and stuff like that, they can't help but make comments, you know what I'm saying? Or you either get to your house. How awkward are the handshakes, right? Because a guy that sees you here, a big guy, they'll go, like, they'll use their whole body. You either get uncomfortable compliments or people explaining to you why they're not working out or why they're eating them right now. I feel like, oh dude, I used to be a water polo. Like, I was, oh man, you should have seen me. Don't do the hard, I'm gonna tell you guys, I'm gonna tell you, I hope everybody, whoever shakes my hand watches, don't do the excessively hard squeeze on my hand because I will crush your hand. If you do that, I have a really strong grip. That's my invitation to break, to break the hand. Yeah, that person that does it needs a lesson. Yeah, like, I usually give them the no thumb or like, you know, real, if they start like real hard, sometimes I just go real limp and just, oh, like, make them feel powerful for a second. Did I ever tell you guys when I did that to my sister's boyfriend, I was a really over, I was a super overprotective brother, like, like Bat, like my sister, the sister under me, so it's me and I have a sister and another sister. I mean, that's how it should be. Well, I was, I was excessive. Like my poor sister, she was gorgeous, right? My sister's beautiful, smart. She thought she was unattractive in high school because no boys would talk to her because they were terrified. She scared them all out. And when she graduated, she literally said that, like, yeah, you know, guys that weren't really attractive, you know, to me and nobody really talked to me. And I'm like, oh, I got, I got something to tell you. But she had a boyfriend once and he came in and I, you know, I saw him walking up and he goes to shake my hand. And oh yeah, he got a, he went when the healer, I guess went and my sister looked at me like, nice to meet you buddy. Nice to meet you. How about you? I was yours. Pretty crazy, weird last four or five days, man. I went everything from like good stuff, bad stuff, great stuff, sperm banks, surgeries. Oh, go to the spank bank, huh? Yeah, that was my first time. First give us an update on your boy. He did the surgery. Yeah, that was actually came second, but I'll give you the update on that first if you wanna hear that. So he did do this. So yeah, I had the sperm bank on Thursday, Friday was the, it's not a really a sperm bank either. It's something else. Yeah, what do they call it? I don't even know what you call it. Scientific name. So I'll tell you how fucking awkward it was though. It's called the public bathroom. Yeah. The sperm factory. Yeah, it's a, yeah. I don't know how to handle this. It's called Doug's house. Truck stop. Doug's like, why you got his math in my house again? I'll be back, Doug. No, so, okay. So his surgery, I'll tell you that, because I know I have had a lot of people that wanna update on how Max is doing. He's doing it incredible. So he had, yeah, and his adenoid, is that how you say it? Adenoid, removed. And he had tubes put in his ear. And the doctor actually said that, oh my God, so you guys, it's so good that you guys did this. It was some of the largest adenoid you'd ever seen before because it was, and what happened? So this is my understanding of why this is so bad and why it was such an issue for him, is that it gets inflamed and then it traps bacteria. Yep. And so you just become really susceptible to getting sick. It's been getting sick so much. Which explains why we haven't had 14 days in a row of him not being sick whatsoever. Then add in the fact that, based off of his anatomy of his ear, that water gets trapped behind his eardrums. So basically for the last two and a half years, he's been underwater listening to us, which explains his slow speech. Like he has not been able to, like even though he's, like we had him through speech therapy. He's talking the way he hears it. Yes. It's like, I can communicate with him because I totally understand what he wants because I'm with him every day and I can tell he understands everything. And even when we had him in speech therapy, he said, you know, I'm pretty much done here. He's, I can tell he's learning. He's just gonna be one of those kids who talks later is what her explanation was to it. And it wasn't until we saw the specialist that was like, oh no, he's underwater. He's been listening to you guys muffled and they were like, just watch. You'll see a difference immediately. And it's wild. Like we're on day three right now. Four, three, four. Day three or four right now, since the surgery. Now of course, the day after or the day of and after he's kind of like, you know, still from the Anesthesia. Yeah, the anesthesia, trying to wear off. And that was, that was a, that was hard, right? Katrina cried. Like it was, it was pretty emotional. Yeah, because it's disorning to right after. If you've ever come in anesthesia, it's disorning. So I can only imagine for a kid. Yeah. Going in was fine. Like he took the laughing gas and he was having fun and he totally waved goodbye to Katrina, which was funny because she came out and she was crying. One, we still got these stupid COVID rules. Oh bro, don't get me started right now. Oh, just, don't get me started. Don't get me started. I actually mouthed off inside there because I was so irritated because, you know, my wife comes out crying because she just saw my son get taken away to go fucking put under. They're only about one person. Yeah. And then like in this massive, empty fricking waiting room, you know, I'm consoling her to find out, is it okay? Is he okay? What's going on? She's crying. Excuse me, sir, excuse me. Only, only one, only one parent in here. Oh my God. Oh my God. She's fucking. She really just. Oh, and you. Yeah, that's how I felt, right? So anyways, she, you know, she was crying because just because they took him, but she's like, I was like, is it okay? Is he okay? She's like, no, he was fine. I'm just, I'm just emotional because they took him or whatever. So they take him. I got to wait outside till all this is all done. And then when he comes out, he is, he's just so disoriented that we had to stay out in the parking lot for like an hour. That's normal. Cause he was just like, he, and he's not like this. Like, I don't know if I've told you guys, he loves the car. He's never in three years now cried to get in the car seat, but he loves to go for a car ride. Like that's like one of his favorite things to do. And trying to get him in the car seat, he was just flipping out. He wanted to be held, probably. Yeah, yeah. He just, he wanted to be held. He didn't want to sit down. He just wanted mom to hold him. And we called, he didn't even want me. He wanted, he just wanted her and just to hold him and just, so we had to do that for like an hour. And Katrina was like, looking at me like, we got to go. And I'm like, no, you guys had already told me, don't even come to work. You do just don't worry about it. So I told her, I said, listen, I'm not going to work. Just we'll sit out here. I said, we'll just sit in the parking lot until he calms down. So he calmed down, we took him home. And of course, all day he was in and out sleeping. And so he can't really tell anything then. But he woke up the next day, very next morning, like just bright eyed, bushy tail, happy, playing, talking. And right away, what we saw him doing already was talking to himself more. So he could probably hear himself more clear. So he'd be like babbling and talking when he's playing and stuff with his toys. That's so awesome. And then, then all of a sudden when we were talking to him, he was like trying to repeat everything we said, like way more than usual. Like normally I have to like try and get him to say something like triangle, square, and I'm coaching him, where I was just talking to him and then he would try and say what I was saying. So he was already trying it. Now it's still not super sharp, but in those three days that have gone by, it's gotten sharper and sharper and sharper each day. Which is crazy. Well, I gotta apologize. I must have messaged you. I can't handle that stuff. When one of the kids is, I'm like texting him in five seconds. You were definitely, I'm like consoling from afar. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sal's emotional and scared enough for all of us. When it comes to the kids, man, I can't handle that. No, I appreciate that. I appreciate checking up on it. And everybody too, like as far as the audience, like I mean, I got so many DMs and messages. I tell you what was one of the coolest things that I got, and then I'll say it on the show, because I probably didn't get a chance to answer everybody. But when I first talked about on the show, what was really nice and I share with Katrina and by the way, this is one of the things that really made her feel better going into the surgery was I must have got, I don't know, 50 plus DMs of other parents. Who've done the process before. Who have done it and we're just like, oh my God, it's amazing at them. It's so worth it. When Western medicine does things right, it really does, right? Man, so that was really, really cool to experience that and to get that type of response from everybody. I shared with Katrina and it made her feel so much better that so many people had such great success and it was such an easy surgery. I'm so glad that he's already done it. Yeah, that was my, that part, and then I, so now we're going through this. Fertility? Yeah, thank you, Justin. Fertility expert, so Katrina went, because we gave kind of like this cutoff date that if we don't get pregnant by the time Max turns three, that we're gonna shut down the factory. That's just, that's partially, that's our agreement that we just decided. She's gonna be 42. That's already starting to get a pretty good age gap. If I have two kids, I want them to be more like siblings and not more like parent sibling relationship, which I think tends to happen after you get beyond four or five years. Yeah, I agree. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think that's just kind of what happens, tends to. So that's, we've just agreed on that, right? So we're getting closer to that crunch time. And so Katrina says, you know, I just wanna explore like, I know we haven't been really trying for very long, but let's just go see what a Fertility expert, so I'm like, she's been doing all this. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, agreeing to whatever, I'm not really paying attention to be honest with you. So I'm just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. I'll do whatever. Schedule it, I'll be there. I'll be in a typical husband, right? To get a typical husband, right? Hey, in 30 minutes. Wait, what's happening? In 30 minutes, you gotta go jerk off and go. What are you guys gonna do to me? Literally, that says, this goes down. I'm just agreeing to shit, like the typical fucking husband who's pretending to listen, who's not really listening, like, yeah, yeah, honey, whatever, I support you, whatever, whatever, yeah, we'll do it. Tell me when. Yeah, so then she tells me just last week, she goes, tomorrow you're going to the clinic to do the sperm thing. And I'm like, what? Sperm thing, what? Why am I going? I thought you were doing all this stuff, right? She's like, no, you have to go down there and get a sample. I said, we just had sex, like yesterday. You want me to go, and they want me to fill something up? I just like, no, you gotta do like a fight, like over it. She's like, I told the doctor how much sex we have. I told her that we have sex like every other day. And she's like, well, you should wait five days. And then I asked her. That's a lot of pressure, like fill it up to the surface. Bro, that's exactly what I said, I got mad. I'm like, I have to give them a certain amount. And she's like, well, no, it's okay, because if you don't, you just have to do it again. I'm like, I don't want to have to do this multiple times. Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Right then and there, or you come back. You need to come back again. I was gonna say, that's a lot of pressure. Yes. They look at the cup, yeah, go back in the room. And I go, Katrina, I said the likelihood that I'm gonna have to come back because we had sex yesterday is pretty high. At least give me another day or two in between. We can't have sex. So she's like, okay. So she pushed it out two more days. So at least I had like a three-day break and be able to build up reserves. It's still a little bit of a build up. Hold on, so how does this work? You go in. Oh, bro. The nurse, so this is always, I've always thought- It's the worst experience ever. Well, I was gonna say because- I refuse to do it again. Everybody knows you're jerking off. That's what's weird about it. You show up, they give you a cup and you're like, hey, thank you. It's awkward, the nurses- I contact with everybody in there. The nurses are awkward, the procedure's weird. So can you walk in? The procedure. It's, I mean- You've done this before? The process. The process, that procedure. What do I do with my hands? No, actually I haven't done it like this before. This is the, even when I do it at home, it doesn't look like this at all. Nothing like this at all. So I walk into this place, right? Which is, and they're all COVIDed out to kind of wear a mask too, okay? So I'm masked up. That already ruins my mind. It's me too. I would never, I would never do this with a mask on. Yeah, I would never do this. On my own face? Yeah, yes. With gloves? Okay, so I walk- Did you have to wear gloves? I walk in, bro, it's always an awful experience, it really was. So I walk in, I check in, and you're right. Everybody knows what you're there for, so it's just this weird feeling of like, okay, I'm gonna check in, I'm gonna sign some paperwork, and then I'm gonna go- Hi, I'm supposed to masturbate at three. Okay, like, how old school? Like, did you have like a TV and like- Dude, okay, so listen, listen, Linda, I check in, it's only a few minutes, and then a nurse escorts me back into this back room, and you walk in this room, and it's disgusting. I mean, because it's set up to do just that. What do you mean set up? I mean, so there's a leather- Is there a spinning bed? There's a leather chair- There's a music play. There's a leather chair with an ottoman, and it's got a, you know, one of those big- Wow, you can do like a laid-down version. And then it has a big dog pee pad on it. Wow. You throw away, because people's naked asses are probably sitting on this thing, right? And then you have a TV in front of you with your wide selection of DVD collection. It has like the dim lighting. But here's the weird part. Immediately, you're thinking of all the dudes that were in there before you. 100% is all I'm thinking about. It's like, literally, there was 15 dudes right before me today, I'm thinking about. That works for some people. Yeah, and I'm like, you know, you're like- You know, and of course they have like, please- Now, now, you're competitive, where you're like, hey, what's the most? Yeah. Give me the most anybody's Republican. No, I'm already feeling insecure with the jar. You know what I'm saying? Like my wife only gave me three days. Like, if I would've known this was gonna be like that, I would've been like- There's a measuring cup, you know? Is that why we celebrate for a month? You know what I'm saying? Like a month, we're not having anything like this. I'm gonna blow this thing up, you know? But since she surprised me, you know, hey, tomorrow, you're gonna go do this. Now we got good health insurance with my implant. Oh, my God. The nurse can help you if you don't. So, no, okay, they had this weird process where- And it's like, you had this sheet on the wall, okay? This whole thing is awkward. And I had to read all these rules. There's an order. I have to wash my hands, dry them, no lubrication. You have to fill this paperwork out. It's a dry spank, dry. Then you have to, yes, you have to, then sit here, throw this away, then wash hands again, then stand, there's a red X on the ground and it's in the corner. So I have to like- Is that what you're aiming for? No, no, no, no, this is after. So I had to stand in the corner on this red X and I unlocked the door and pushed the light in and I had to wait for the nurse to come in to let her know that I'm done. It's just this, it's all- Wait a minute. Something, what happened before that they decided to add that? There must have been a dude in there like, you know, I'm done, come get the cup. That's what I think happens. It has to be something like that. That sweat. Can you hold the cup for me? But I mean, every bit about it was awkward and weird and just- Boy, talk about the mental games because you're not, I mean, it's hard to be in the mood like that. You know what I mean? And I'm not like that at all. I'm like, I know some guys can like just turn it on and just like, that's, I'm not one of those dudes, dude. I don't have like this like- Did they have like affirming like words coming through the speakers? Like, you're such a great guy. Yeah. You work so hard. You're so good looking. Like all the tapes are like, you know, like nursing hospitals. No, it's weird. It was very, and then- But you hit the limit. You didn't have to go back. Well, and then I mean, I don't know what you guys, but I mean, I've never tried to- To aim into a little plastic cup. Not that. Pean in a plastic cup. It's definitely not accurate. Pean in a plastic cup, not such a big deal. Shooting that in a plastic cup is- Pretty unpredictable. Is very unpredictable and not very, not- Is it opaque or clear? A little bit of both. Oh, so you can see what's going on. That's weird. Yeah. Oh, you mean the jars? Yeah, no, it's like a clear, clearish like, you know, like you're, you're a little old, the same thing you pee in. It's the same thing. Those same little cups that you pee in. You imagine? I bet you, because obviously they do this all the time. Look, it's a medical thing. I get it. We're all being, you know, we're all being, you know, kids about it, but somebody at some point has dropped one of those jars on the floor. You know what I mean? For sure. Somebody, could you imagine that? Ruin the sample. The guy's like, oh God, I finally, oh no, shit. Bro, it was, it was, let's just say it was very difficult for me to be, to keep everything clean and not make a mess. And I was like really trying not to do it. Okay. And so then the million dollar question is you vetted this doctor that's then going to apply this. Oh yeah, I didn't watch that. I watched the documentary. That's my number one concern, this whole process. Like I want to make sure, I told Katrina, I was like, how do we know that it's mine that they're going to use? Like, are they going to for sure do that? So what we're doing, okay? We're not doing in vitro. We're doing some, I don't know the name. You'll have to ask her. Oh, it's you, I, are you? No, no, I can't remember the name. So they basically flush her and then they, they clean mine. Yeah, they put it in as close as they can to, they inject it into her essentially. Yeah. But we're not doing any, they're not in vitro. They wait until she's ovulating and then they do the other thing. Yes. That's what this whole thing, but yeah, she was just telling me today. She was like, I said, Hey, did you hear anything back? I mean, am I good? My way was, did I hit the mark? She's like, well, if we don't, you just go back. I says, no, I'm not. You better find out if I can do homework because I'm fucking going in there again. I have a home service. There's no way you could not get me to do that again. I'm sorry. There was that awkward and weird for me that I don't, I wouldn't want to. I don't know. It is kind of weird. I get it. Like, again, that's a private figure. Like you're walking in, everybody knows. Yeah. You know what's going on? Hi, I'm here for you. And they don't try and make you feel comfortable or be lighthearted about thing. It's all like, all militant, you know? It's all sterile. Yeah, dude. Like tell me some jokes or something so I get my mind off of what I'm doing. Like anything off of like just. Wow. Well, you just reminded me of a weird article I read the other day. So there was a man in Ireland. I got to read this to you guys because this is the craziest. I don't know, guys do some weird shit sometimes. That's all I can say. This dude was hospitalized, ready for this? I'm going to read you the title of this. Hospitalized man regrets injecting himself with semen to cure his bad back. So apparently this guy thought that if he injected semen into his back, it would cure his back pain. Wow, where did he get this weird biohacking blood? I have no idea, but it didn't work. So that's all. I mean, we have people rolling on their backs and butthole tanning right now. Well, yeah, that's not that farfetched from me. That's not that farfetched. You know what's dumb about that is that this is the part of the social media fitness industry that it's so ridiculous to me. There was a point where, here's the thing, a lot of people in the fitness space, they try to find reasons to take pictures of themselves, semi-naked. And it was a great excuse for people to show themselves laying out in the sun with their legs open, pointing towards us. And I saw a lot of people in fitness influencers. Remember when we first started the podcast? There was like a, the first couple of years there was like that movement of like everybody taking naked. Oh, butt shots? Yeah, butt shots on naked. Remember that was like a trend for like a year and a two years. Every one of our friends did it. Yes. I'm like, what are you doing? What is this? I need a reason, you know? Oh, thanks. You know, and there you go. Anyway, I'm gonna move this to health here real quick. I wanna give a shout out to- I mean, we're talking about health. This is kind of healthy practice. I wanna talk, I wanna give a shout out to our friend, Dr. Becky Campbell. Cause she's helped me and Jessica out with Aurelia. So check this out, right? So Aurelia's has been getting these kind of like, are you guys familiar with like a low histamine diet? Have you, we've heard, you guys have talked to her about it. Yeah. No avocados. No avocados. Things like that. Part of it. Yeah, okay. So he's been getting kind of this mild rash. We're trying to figure out what's going on. So as we're doing this testing, Dr. Becky Campbell suggested that we do a low histamine diet. And it totally, it's totally working. Now that's not the solution. That's just temporary. Why we figure out what is actually going on. But I can't believe the difference in my son's skin. Literally within three or four days, we saw a dramatic improvement. And so we're avoiding any high histamine foods. So like no sardines, cause that's canned fish. If he eats meat, it's gotta be fresh. We're avoiding things like avocado, which is histamine, citrus fruits, which are histamine releasing. And there's a whole list. She has a book that she wrote about all this. And she's, again, she's been helping us, but man, what a remarkable difference he's had in his skin. You know, speaking of that, I don't remember when I told you guys that we were exploring cutting out the gluten from Max. Katrina said she noticed it right away. So I think that's what it was, was he was eating that raisin bread toast, like every single day for a long time. And I don't know if that was the root cause of what was going on, or that was just making it worse. Like it was just inflaming him more, making it more difficult to breathe. I know there's a lot of conflicting information about gluten. I think gluten is one of those things. My strong opinion is it's one of those things that if you could tolerate it, well, it's not a problem. But if you have an issue with food, it tends to be gluten tends to be one of those things. It's a highly reactive. It's a similar to lactose, right? Yeah, it's a protein found in plants and it's a highly reactive one for a lot of people. So if you have like autoimmune issues, one of the first things you want to cut out is gluten. But I don't think gluten is bad. Like dairy, dairy is a highly reactive food for a lot of people. It's perfectly fine and extremely healthy. I wouldn't put gluten in the same category necessarily in terms of healthiness, but I noticed a difference with myself, with my kids, eliminating gluten, and obviously they have my genetics, so they probably are somewhat reactive to certain foods. Yeah, I mean, any kind of gut issues. I mean, gluten made a massive difference for me. And then also like Courtney is on the histamine kind of protocol, Dr. Becky Campbell was a game changer, because she was like Hashimoto's was always dealing with that. Did it work for her? So yeah, totally has been remarkable. Yeah, often thyroid issues, people are reactive to gluten. So if you have hyperthyroid, hypothyroid, so too much or too little, oftentimes eliminating gluten makes a pretty big impact. So I had this, speaking of our kids and stuff, I had one of those moments where Ethan, so my oldest, decides to rebel a bit, right? And so I'm like, oh great, like it begins, but this is actually one of those where I'm like allowing it and tolerating it because I'm like, if he's gonna rebel at anything, at least it's this. So we lost him to a different Bay Area team instead of the A's. So he's like, he just bought himself a giant's hat like right in front of me, like deliberately rebelling. I'm like, what the hell is this? Oh wow. We're an A's family. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, and he just was like, ha ha ha, like in my face about it. Oh, that's buddy. That's the age, right? He's 12. Yeah, yeah. When's he turned 13? Yeah, so not till March, but yeah. Now I imagine this must mean he's at the age now, because it's about that age, I remember for me too, where him and his buddies are probably starting to talk sports and are they actually watching or getting into it? Is he starting to watch? Yes, all his friends are big giants fans and all that. And I'm like, that's inevitable. But like I've been in here, I take a little bit of like, it stings a little because I had all these plans of taking him to A's games this summer, my brother, because we're huge A's fans and like he's already indoctrinated his boy and he's totally into it. I'm like, oh, this is great because I remember that growing up and then it's like, and now he's just already so yeah, but you know what? It'll be great though because the Battle of the Bay happens every year. Yeah. That now becomes the traditional game that you guys go to. Now those two things you could do is off the top of my head. If you push back against him, he'll always be a Giants fan because it's something he does with his dad. Or if you act like no big deal, yeah, it comes to A's game. You can wear your Giants hat and you just let him chill and he might go back to... Oh yeah, no. I mean, I definitely sarcastically shun him. I'd be torn on what I'd want because I get where you're coming from like the rebellious side because there's a part of you that would probably empower and want the, like I'm my own individual and I'm gonna like who I like, just because you like that part. I do. But then there's a part, of course, as a dad. I was like, oh, it's like a missed opportunity for me, but at the same time, I remember even personally, there was like that age, like it totally was around like 13 or that where my brother and my dad both loved the Lakers and all that. And I was like, full on Celtics, or Michael Jordan and the Bulls. Like just to be antagonist, you know? Oh man. Yeah, so you gotta love, I mean, he's got you in here. Yeah, so I get it. But it's like... I rebelled by wearing excessively baggy jeans and I remember my dad. Oh yeah, dude, I came home. I came home. The best. Oh dude, I came home and my dad's like, are you gonna wear pants that fit you? And I said, and I replied the wrong way to my dad. I said, you can't tell me what I'm gonna wear. And he goes, I'll rip those pants off of you right now. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, dad. Watch me. I went and changed. Because he would. He would have ripped right off of me. Have you seen those trends? Andrew has to definitely throw this clip in there. There's a viral TikTok trend that's going right now. We're guys, have you seen this yet, Andrew? Yeah. Where dudes walk up behind other guys and they grab the back two pockets of their jeans. They're back two, and they just rip from the back pockets and just rip the back of their jeans off. Now, do they pre-cut them ahead of time? Because that's like, That's tough. Yeah, that's hard to do. Pull someone down. This guy wears jeans all the time. We'll practice on him. Justin, I mean, Doug does, don't mess with Doug. You don't want, you don't want Doug. They're too expensive. You don't want Doug to go off. He does like the expensive brands. Doug has a line. You don't want to cross that line. You don't want a bare-ass Doug. Okay, he's a monster. I've seen him at the line ever since. Speaking of Doug, did you know that ButcherBox now has these ribs that are already pre-cooked and marinated yet? I do not know that. So I just bought those. So you just warm up in the oven? Yeah, that's all you need to do. How are they? Well, I haven't had them yet. So I cooked last night. I actually, I'll cook them tonight. So I'll give the feedback on how. They're getting more and more of those products where they're already pre-done. Yeah, wasn't it? I got the burnt ends. Yeah, the burnt ends are already done. Yeah, those are good. So I did those last week. I did the pulled pork was really good. So I recommended on the burnt, and I want to hear your guys' opinion on it. So the burnt ends I did in the oven, what I didn't do the first time, I did it twice. The first time what I didn't do was add anything or do it. The second time I actually put barbecue sauce on it, because re-cooking already cooked burnt ends, kind of dried them out a little bit. Yeah, helped to kind of keep them moist. That's right. So recommendation, if you buy that, that's what I would do is I would lather them up with your favorite barbecue sauce and then re-cook them again because then it'll soak up the juice. Speaking of protein, so you guys know how I've been kind of trying to cut calories and I'm going to be doing some videos for Mind Pump. Can't reveal too much of what's going on, but I've been trying to keep my protein really... Mind Pump only fans. Yeah, that's it right there. I've been trying to keep my protein up and it's really hard to do calorie-wise because obviously protein often comes with fat calories, right? And it's not very palatable, eat dry chicken breast or whatever. So I've been doing the bone broth protein from Paleo Valley, but a lot. Like I've been doing over 100 grams a day of the bone broth protein. So okay, do you double up on a serving or do you actually make four shakes a day? I can do 60 to 70 grams at once. No effect on my gut at all. Is it making chalky and thick? No, not bad. Okay, you put that in your shake or protein? Water, just mix it up and I pound it. And it does not... Have some water with your shake, huh? Listen, it's like all powders. Nothing, listen, I can't do that with protein powders usually, but with the bone broth does not bother my gut at all. It's literally... Is that because like neutral kind of... Is that because like how thin it is? It's because it's bone broth protein and it's super unprocessed. It's literally... There's nothing in it. If you look at the bag and look at ingredients, bone broth protein. There's no flavor, no color, no nothing. So I mean, I can load up on it and I can't do that with any other protein because it tends to bother my gut. I haven't even played with that one. You use that consistently. All the time. I always see you scooping that in the back. I didn't know you... I just eat all her bee sticks. So yeah, I'm happy with those. I know they haven't... I mean they knocked it out the park with that. By the way, we had those turkey. I never got a turkey one. Oh, you guys crushed all the turkey ones. I didn't get a turkey. I'm gonna get faster because I'm gonna keep eating those. They're as good as the beef ones or maybe even better. They're really good. They really are though. Really? I swear to God. They're really good. It's super tasty. Hey, real quick. You gotta check out one of our sponsors, LiveOnLab. So they make supplements with liposomal delivery technology. What is that? That means when you take the supplement, the liposomal technology encapsulates it in a liposome, okay? And it gets to the target tissues of your body. What does that mean? That means you don't pee it out. It's absorbed where you want it to get absorbed. And right now you can get lipoglutathione for free when you bundle B complex with vitamin C. The liposomal glutathione, one of my favorite supplements, actually works really well for my health, my immunity, and I notice better recovery. But anyway, their supplements are some of the best. This is pharmaceutical grade technology. You gotta go check them out. Go to liveonlabs.com. That's L-I-V-O-N-L-A-B-S.com forward slash M-P for that hookup. All right, here comes the rest of the show. First question is from Freeman Axtoll. What are some of your favorite ways to increase recovery capacity? Oh, that's a really good question. The number one way that I notice an improvement in my recovery is if I have better, more consistent quality sleep. I don't notice anything impact my recovery quite as good, aside from obviously- That's one of the biggest factors for recovery in general. Now consider my diet doesn't go from bad to good and that kind of stuff. Yeah, I mean, we all eat pretty relatively good. So what I would challenge as far as more impactful, mobility, man. Active recovery? Yeah. After a really hard training session, doing a really good mobility session to follow that, either the same day or the day after, facilitates recovery really, I notice a big difference from that. Yeah. More so than all the other hacks. I play with everything, right? We do the cold plunge, we've got the sauna stuff, like those things are all cool hacks and if you got the money to spend on stuff like that, I think they all work and I think they're all cool, but mobility, rest and feeding yourself has to be the three. It is, I used to rely a lot on food when I was younger. I would just eat more and I would fool myself by doing that because you get a short-term strength increase by bumping your calories, but it wouldn't last very long and then I'd start putting on body fat. But sleep still to this day, if I'm like, ooh, I feel a little over-trained, if I'll go and I'll be like, okay, tonight, two hours before bed, I'm gonna turn off all the electronics, I'm gonna make sure the room is set up nice, I'm gonna make sure I don't eat anything a few hours before bed, stay calm, do some nice stretching beforehand and I get good sleep and I always wake up the next day, notice. And the same thing if I'm starting to get sick, if I'm starting to get sick, a good night of sleep makes a huge difference. I really have not done anything else that makes that big of an improvement. Now, you mentioned a bunch of these hacks, right? Like cold plunge and sauna, I think that can help, it doesn't come close though. It doesn't come close to something. Yeah, I know, like I think that's what they're kind of trying to get out of us and like there's things, like even with the juve light, like the red light therapy, like I like to use that every now and then for like when I'm doing my mobility practices or I'm just doing light movement, I do it in front of the juve. If I've had really hard intensive training sessions where I know I'm gonna be sore, but it's like, what's moving the needle more? Is it that or is it me just like getting that kind of recovery movement? But it doesn't hurt, you know? It's like to add all these things in the mix if you can. Listen, if you're hitting those three, then those things are awesome in my opinion. If you are hitting adequate protein intake, you are resting, you're doing active recovery through mobility days, then adding, you know, the infrared sauna or the juve light or cold plunge stuff, I think it's awesome. I think it's- I wouldn't have had to do a massage in there. Yeah, or deep tissue massage, like those things are, I think are going to complement, only accelerate, help. Those things are phenomenal, but I wouldn't replace those things. Sleep's the biggest thing. And I, you know, it's one of the things that I think that we take a lot of pride on since we've started this show. Like we started the show long before there was obviously sponsors and stuff. And, you know, we obviously get, we get paid to talk about products like this, right? We have partners in these products that we think are awesome. But I don't think we'll ever change our messaging around the natural holistic way for you to approach recovery and building muscle. It's just they don't replace it. They don't. You get bad sleep. They're not the big rocks. Exactly. But if you are taking care of the big rocks and you have the financial means to invest in some of these things, I think they're awesome. Now, one thing that we need to say too is if you're playing this game where you're like, how can I increase my recovery capacity? In some circumstances, I get it. Let's say you're in the military or you're playing a sport and you have to train at a particular intensity and they're requiring you to do a certain amount of practices. This makes sense. But for people who work out on their own, oftentimes when they're like, how can I increase my workout capacity? What's that really indicating? You're working out too much or too hard, right? That's oftentimes the problem. It's like, okay, let's back off on the training. Now, if you're barely working out and you're like, why am I not recovering? I'd look at sleep. I'd look at diet and look at that kind of stuff. But I've had a lot of people tell me that like, hey, how can I increase my workout capacity? And we talk about their sleep and their diet. And then I go, well, let me look at your workout. Oh, you're working out six days a week. You're doing 20 sets per body part. That's the problem. Not the fact that you're- And it's really stress management. I mean, there's a multitude of factors of stress that's in your lifestyle at the moment. Like you gotta kind of take inventory of that. And if a meditation is something that you can incorporate, if there's ways of getting yourself into that parasympathetic state more effectively, then those are good tools to include. And one of the most important things to understand with exercise is that the right dose will get you to the fastest. Less than that and more than that will not get you there any faster. And the right dose depends on the context of your life, your fitness level, your health, all those different things, meaning the right dose can change. So aim for the right dose, not the most that you could get away with. Next question is from Kylie Johnson. How much protein is necessary in a fat loss phase for women? Okay, the word is necessary here. So what's necessary would be essential protein intake, meaning you gotta eat at least enough protein to meet your essential amino acid requirement because below that, and you get sick, you literally need a certain amount of amino acids, okay? But besides that, okay, let's talk about what's optimal because necessary and optimal are two different things. For most women or most people, optimal is anywhere between about half your body weight to your body weight and grams of protein. So if you weigh 120 pounds, it's anywhere between 60 to 120 grams. If you're 150 pounds, so on, probably more towards the higher end is what I found to be most successful. They did, didn't they do a study on that for like, if you were hitting like your, just your base amount that your body needs versus going above that like one and a half times or whatever, the amount of atrophy that happened, didn't they do a study? Oh, it's better off. I mean, you eat almost the gram of protein per pound of body weight. Of course, this has to be reasonable if you're really obese, use your lean body mass. But if you do that, you're more likely to lose body fat, less likely to lose muscle. You have more satiety, meaning your appetite is controlled better. Insulin tends to be controlled a little better. Blood sugar controlled better. That's part of the insulin. And it just, it tends to work better. Now this isn't true for everybody. Some people get constipated with too much protein or it doesn't work with their digestion, but generally speaking, higher protein as a percentage of your calories just works better, especially for fat loss. It's so important. You have to understand that when you're in a cut, you're reducing your calories. And if you're also not hitting your protein intake, right? Or have- Or optimizing it. Yeah, or optimizing it. It's one of the fastest ways for you to lose muscle also. So, and that's not normally somebody's goal. Normally when somebody wants to lose fat- They don't want to lose muscle. Yeah, they don't want to lose muscle. You definitely, I mean, you're going to slow your metabolism down. That's what makes your, the shape that you probably worked for- You know, they've done- Why isn't it like how much carbohydrates is necessary for a phase for fat loss? Why are we focusing on that? Well, carbohydrates aren't necessary at all. Not saying it wouldn't be great to eat them, I think for better performance, but they're just not a necessary macronutrient. Fats and proteins are essential. I mean, you have to consume them. But they've even done studies on sedentary individuals and people who've had, have to recover from an injury. Higher protein intake, all of the things being controlled, results in less muscle loss, in less strength loss. Like if you're sedentary completely, let's say you get injured, you're in your bedridden, you're going to lose some muscle. A higher protein intake, you lose less muscle. So it's a very valuable macronutrient when you're talking about fat loss and muscle maintenance when it comes to weight loss. So high protein for most people works. Now, if it affects your digestion negatively, you get constipated, you don't feel good, listen to your body, ignore what I'm saying. But probably eight or nine out of 10 people watching this, you're better off with a higher protein intake. Next question is from Canny Cake 21. Egg whites versus whole eggs. Oh man. Whole eggs. Yeah, all of the egg. Okay, so there's one benefit to egg whites, it's lower calorie. That's about it, right? All the other benefits go to whole eggs. I even went through a kick at doing this for a little bit and it was so popular in the bodybuilding space. Nobody ate whole eggs. Aino was funny, it was like I remember doing it and actually like just kind of doing it because everybody was doing it and not really like paying attention to like what the difference was. And then I remember like actually tracking and looking at it and go, well, that's weird, okay. Yeah, I lose calories, but I also lose half the protein. So it's like, and that's one of the hardest things for you to get when you're, especially when you're cutting is enough protein. It's the fat, because egg whites is pure protein. It's like a protein shape, right? I know, but you still lose, there's like seven grams in an egg and three of it is in the, three of it's in the yolk and four of it's in the white. So you lose almost half the protein in the egg by cutting out the yolks. Yeah, and what we know about dietary cholesterol now, it's like there's no, yeah, there's no restriction. So precursor to testosterone. Restriction. So to do that, all to save 30 calories, I mean, I'm better off instead of doing a full cup of rice to do three quarters a cup of rice or instead of throwing two tablespoons of butter throughout the day, I use one tablespoon of butter. I mean, there's. Well, also the yolk is the multivitamin of nature. Right. The nutrients, the egg white has protein. There's very little other nutrients, right? The, the yolk is packed full of nutrients and they've done studies. Here's the best part. Now they have studies comparing egg whites to egg yolks. Excuse me, egg whites to whole eggs. When all of the things are controlled, protein intake and everything, whole eggs results in more muscle gain, results in better protein synthesis. So the whole egg is actually more anabolic than the egg whites. And what's funny is that the bodybuilding, muscle building community, pre-1980s, because in the 80s it was all about low fat. That was what was being preached to everybody. Before that, nobody ate egg whites. Well, there's whole companies that just focus on egg white, still popular. Like getting rid of the yolks completely and like pouring just the egg white. Dude, they used to promote eating tons of whole eggs as this anabolic muscle building, you know, kind of formula. And it is, I do it. And I know it's a big difference. The only thing that I liked, so there is companies that do like the pump, and I went on this kick for a while when I was competing. What I liked about it was I could add it to anything. It's like flavorless. So- You can literally make a shake with it that way. That's right. I would take a shake that was already like a 35, 40 gram shake of protein. And then I would pump like four pumps with another 10, 15 grams of egg whites. Because it would be flavorous and it kind of frosted up. So it actually kind of tastes good in a shake. Or I would squirt it into my oatmeal. And cause I wouldn't, you wouldn't taste it. It would mix right in with the oatmeal, no problem. And you wouldn't get any taste. So that way, I bet you will never catch me make eggs and not do the whole egg. It would never cook egg whites. The only person I could see this having any value is the person that is controlling their calories and their macros to such a point that all they want is 30 grams of protein and no other calories. And they want to do it from a food. Yeah, but even then I would do what I said. I know. I'm just saying if they did everything else. Yeah, I know. But you just, I mean, cut it somewhere else. To your point earlier, the best part of the egg is the middle. You know, I only feed my 19 month old son egg yolks. He doesn't even have the whites. Cause whites, if you have an intolerance to eggs, it's usually to the white, not to the egg yolk. Cause the white has antibodies that protects the yolk. So now this isn't true for everybody, but if you have an intolerance to eggs, try egg yolks. Oftentimes it's not a problem. And so, and my son has a little bit of intolerance to egg whites, but not the yolks. So every day for breakfast, the kid has literally three scrambled egg yolks every single morning. Next question is from chicken nuggies pop. What are the pros and cons of double overhand versus mixed grip for deadlifting? Okay, so the only pros with a mixed grip, so a mixed grip is where one hand is pronated, one hand is supinated, okay? The only pros to that is you can lift more weight. Yeah. Okay? That's why people do it. Because you can hold on to more weight. My grip is stronger when one hand is facing one way and the other way, because the barbell doesn't roll out of your hand. It has to go through. And usually that's the limiting factor once you get up and weight. Yes, so that's the benefit. What's the detriment? It's imbalanced. One hand supinated, one hand pronated. I learned this first hand. I love deadlifting and I did not want to use wrist wraps and I wasn't disciplined enough to always alternate which hand was forward, which hand was back. Eventually I found one favorite, which was this. And I was strongest that way. So that's how I always did my heaviest sets. And I developed an imbalance. And you could see it in my back. And now it's been, I don't know, five years of me doing double overhand hook grip, which I can't lift quite as much with that, but I can get pretty close. So you're almost there though. Almost. I tried for a minute, I couldn't stick with it. It's hard. I can't believe you actually caught up to doing that. I remember, it was when we started the podcast, you were just starting the hook grip and I remember trying to do it with you and I'm like, this fucking hurt. I got about, it hurts. I'm about 20, 30 pounds off. I'm comfortable as hell. So yeah, but it's, but this is balanced. So if you're going to use an alternate grip, you got to make sure you alternate between sets. The other con is this supinated arm right here. It's not common, but people can tear their bicep in this position here because you might want to pull with your arm and then you can see some injuries. But if you're a power lifter, obviously you can't wear wrist wraps. I'd say do it. If you lift on your own, I would say, I don't know, try practicing a hook grip or alternate, but a hook grip is, I mean- So if you were to choose one or the other, because I remember I had this dilemma after the fact of like realizing the imbalance that was coming from the double, I mean the- Alternating. Mix grip, the mix grip, straps or mix grip? Alternating mix grip or always the same. No, always the same. Oh, straps. Straps. Yeah, because you do develop an imbalance. You do. Now you're not going to get a strong grip, obviously, and you're not connecting to the bar the same, but like I said, I had a distinct- So that's what I started doing when you went to hook grip, I couldn't stick to hook grip. What I would do is I would double overhand until I got to a weight where my grip started to become the limited factor. And then if I was trying to get up to like PR type numbers, I would wrap up. I don't know how Olympic, because I do a hook grip, but I don't- That's what I do mixed. I can't do it like a weight lifter. Weight lifters will put their first two fingers over their thumb. That hurt, I can only do one finger, but Olympic lifters can lift massive amounts of weight with the hook grip. You know, Lane, Lane pulls that way, and he pulls about 600 and something pounds that way. But I just can't, I can't do it. And it's not, I guess, I don't know. I think it's obviously more balanced, but it's not ideal. It still doesn't feel great. I try to, it's hard. It's really something, I mean, I wish someone would have introduced it to me very early on. And so I would just got used to it when I was doing like really lightweight, but it was so frustrating for me to try and do it because I was so weak. It was the discrepancy was huge. The way I would train it was a mixed grip, but I would, I would try to pay attention, have my client, okay, right hand forward, and then the next set, okay, left set, hand forward, and just make it equal in terms of volume for both. I think that you're okay. There's no, you guys, I didn't hear, did you say any cons for a double overhand? There's no, there's no con. You just can't hold as much weight. Yeah, well, you get to a certain point where it's, that's the first thing that's gonna fail. Right. That's basically it, but from a muscle balance, like unless you're a power lifter competing, or you're really, really diligent about alternating which hand is forward, which hand is back, I would say go double overhand, see if you could practice your hook grip. That would probably be better. Look, if you like our show, head over to mindpumpfree.com and downloads our guides. We have guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal. You can also find all of us on social media. So Justin is on Instagram at Mind Pump, Justin. Adam is on Instagram at Mind Pump, Adam, and you can find me on Twitter at Mind Pump South.