 Good morning to all of you, myself Varun Saxena from Jaipur Engineering College. In today's presentation, I will conclude these things. First of all, the lab and computer environment in our college. We have 32 lectures in CS and IT department and 12 technical assistant and one system analyst in our in our community college that total number of labs are 13 and we have divided it into we gave a one electrical, one lab for electrical, one for electronics and one for mechanical and nine for CS and IT department. As we know that the each department have some specific some specific software for their users. So, we are providing a electrical one lab for electrical and one for electronics department. We have one internet lab also all the labs all the 12 labs are individually connected with the with the center server and each lab also have a separate server form. Each lab have 25 PCs with Pentium 4 processor and 512 RAM. Internet lab have 125 PCs, SL PCs with P4 processor and 512 RAM with UPS. There are two server in the internet lab. One is the Xenon server which with the 2 GB RAM. It is working for the domain controller, LTE virus and file server and the other is the 2000 server. We are having a 2 Mbps least line connection with the reliance and in our college we have a 5 LCD projector and each one for the different department about the teaching schedule. According to the RTU, 4 years BTEC program are divided into 4 year BTEC. What is RTU? Rastan Technical University. So, for the state you have the Technical University like in Karnataka or in Madhya Pradesh or something. Where is the university located? In Kota sir. In Kota. According to the RTU's University, the 4 year BTEC program are divided into 8 semester. There are 6 semester and 4 labs in each semester, 3 to 4 lecture in a week for a subject. The lecture timing will be about 55 minutes and one tutorial in a week with a 55 minutes. It is not necessary, it is required, if the subject required then it will be conducted. The number of student in the batches, then I will give you the example of computer science department. There are 120 student in a computer science department. So, the lecture will be the, so in the lecture they will be divided into 2 batches 60 60 each. Then in labs they are further divided into 20 20 batches, 20 20 batches. In each lab section there should be one lecturer and one TA should be there about the evaluation scheme. The subject paper is of the maximum for the subject paper is 100, 20 percent vet is for the 2 minor written test and the 20 and the 80 percent for the the end term test. About the lab computing programming the maximum marks is 100, the internal marks are 60 and the final practical marks are 40. The 60 internal marks are further divided into first of all the 20 marks of performance then 24 Viva, then 10 marks for record and 10 marks for attendance, the 40 marks for the final practical, the 30 marks are for performance and 10 marks for the Viva. So, you have actually 2 very simple divisions, no the next one. Yes sir. 2 simple divisions you have a paper of 100 marks and lab of 100 marks. Yes sir. And. In first year sir. In first year. Yes sir. And there are 4, 420 students in the first year. 400 and. And 20 students. In CS electronics and electrical there are 120 students and in IT there are 60 students. So, all 420 students have to do this course no. Yes sir. It is compulsory course. Yes it is compulsory course. And it is taught by CS IT department. Yes sir. So, if you look at those batches of 60. Yes. So, that means there will be 7 batches like that. Yes sir. 20 students. Yes sir. 60 students only for the lectures. No, I know for the lectures 60 students you will have 7 batches like that. Yes sir. So, are there 7 different teachers or 3 or 4 teachers take multiple batches. Yes sir. How is the teaching done? Sir, one faculty will be get 2 in 2 sections. In 2 sections. Yes sir. So, 420 students means you will require 3 faculty members. Yes sir. 3 to 4 faculty members. Ok, depends 3 to 4. Yes sir. And the labs the teacher which teaches a batch of 60 students. Yes sir. And the lab wise you are breaking it into 20 students each. Yes sir. So, the teacher will be present in the lab for each of the 20 students batch. Yes sir. So, 3 times. Yes sir. In a week. In a week. Along with the TA. Along with the TA. Along with the TA. So, that is the load on the teacher. Yes sir. Do the teaching assistants or associates or technical assistants help in correcting papers or correcting assignments or teachers have to do that. No, no sir. Actually sir the work of the lab assistant is that they have the hardware all the hardware related problem they solve and the assignments are also checked by the lab assistant. Because sir they are diploma holders so they have sufficient knowledge for them. And 20 percent weightage is for the written test. Yes sir. And 80 percent weightage is for the. End term test. Termin paper. Yes sir. Now this termin paper is set by the university. Yes sir. So, you have to work as per the set syllabus. Yes sir. So, do you have any sample of paper by the agencies? Yes. Actually sir I am having a syllabus copy. Yes. Oh this is the syllabus. Yes sir. So, you also have this. Sir this is the syllabus for the first year. The first year unit seems to be a very standard procedure in most places. Unit 1, 2, 3, 4 like that. It is a it is a first year syllabus and it is divided into two parts. Very interesting. I like the first word types of computers. So, are you still talking about analog computers, digital computers like that? Yes sir. First generation, second generation. You do as a first generation. Second generation computer. Sir actually sir it is divided into two parts. The first two units are of the fundamental computers and the fundamentals of computers and the other three hours for the programming portion. Binary, octal, decimal, hexadecimal, representation, representing the characters, binary, arithmetic. Then machine assembly and high level language, brief idea of my. Sir only the brief introduction about the machine assembly and analog. But you see in the context of the subject that we are talking about. If you look at our discussion so far, in your case the computer programming begins halfway through unit 3 actually. Yes sir. And then you have only unit 4 which is data life constants variables. But sir it will cover all the all the concepts of C. There is structure and union, point and satellite. No, I have a very strong problem with that. Is what is important is covering everything notionally is important or ensuring that students understand all those concepts. So let us just compare this. You have structures, unions, pointers and file handling as a part of unit 5. The university would have generally said units have so many hours of work. Now compare let us say the amount of stress that you can give through teaching and examples on pointers, on structures and on file handling. You will agree that it will be much less than what our other colleagues would be able to give because of the extra hours that they have. See time is limited no. Yes sir. Within that time you may do the best but whether students will understand or not is a question. But sir we are giving only one month for the first two unit and the except the other fourth month for the programming portion. I see. But does the university recognize this? Do they say that the number of lecture hours or marks for different units will be graded like that less marks and less hours for first two units and more for the subsequent units? Sir in our college, in the starting of the semester we perform a course submission plan sir. Course commission plan. Yes sir. Course completion plan. Completion plan sir. No so there you will just but you will still have to cover this course. You don't have the freedom to set question papers right? No sir. The question paper is set by? Set by the RTU sir. You have no control over it? Yes sir. So it is quite likely do you have any sample of question paper by any chance? Sir I don't know. Can you send a soft copy or a scanned copy later? Yes sir. I definitely sir. I would like all our colleagues to examine that and also comment. In fact let me suggest that this kind of interaction should also work usefully for you and your university. You can perhaps take this feedback. Immediately give a report to your own hero department and to your director and say that I met a lot of people across the country who appear to be teaching programming in a slightly different way. It appears to me to be that way is better is more comprehensive. Here is a sample syllabus from Puna, from this, from fellow, from here, here, here. Maybe our college should initiate something to talk to the RTU fellows who should perhaps change the syllabus. Because this is this kind of syllabus used to be there when higher level programming languages were just coming in. When pointers were not available in fact or understood. They came only with Pascal and subsequent. But I think from a programming perspective means of course if you see the title of this subject, I think it is not computer programming. The title is something different. Computer system and programming. Computer systems and programming. A lot of computer systems and a little bit of programming is the nature of the course. Of course, you can't help it if that is the way it is. But sir, I would like to just say that now since we see that when children are coming or students are coming from different backgrounds, like we have students who have taken instrumentation. We have only computers, IT, electronics, AXTC and INSTRU. So we see that students who are from INSTRU or who have not done, who are not from CBS or ICSE, like when we are teaching them certain things like print, scan and statements or in Java when we are teaching them system.out.println. So they don't exactly know what are input output devices. So we have to tell them actually like a pipe is formed and the data comes to the screen. I am talking about the students, the rest of the students who are not from CBS or ICSE because they also contribute to our results. We have to as a teacher make them understand. Now what there is like octal numbers, decimal numbers, like when we are teaching them logical operators. I am not talking about the top students. I am talking about the average and the below average student because we have to as a teacher I am responsible as you said. You fail if in case a student fail. So I am responsible to teach him even binary, octal, decimal. If in case he has not done it before. So don't you feel so that this syllabus before you teach a student to learn a programming language. As what you are saying is I feel that programming language is a logical language and irrespective of every branch the student should be able to program. Because engineering is after all a logical thing and you are preparing a student to think logical with this subject. That is what I understood like what are you doing this thing for. But don't you feel so that these things will help the student to understand later on the things which they are doing more properly and help to increase the result. Not necessarily that's what I am saying that the opinion is hugely divided on this. Both of the teachers and of the students, hugely divided. That is one. Second, we grant that people should understand decimal binary octal. Not necessarily from a computing point of view. Nearly as a good and useful mathematical concept. The issue is how much time you want to spend on different concepts. So whether we are doing that expenditure of time with proper relative weightage so that the main theme of the subject is not lost. That's the point. Sir, I will tell my experience is when I am now, suppose if in case when I am teaching logical operators in the class. Like ending or logical and bitwise operators when we teach. The point is when you talk about bitwise operators. Just listen to me. If you have to give an example of let's say a 24 bit or 32 bit number where you are talking about bit shifting and so on. Then you will require that. Why should that be known at all to a high level language programmer who is interested in sorting addresses of people. No sir, but when I am teaching it for the syllabus it is there. You are teaching through the syllabus that is why you are thinking like that. What I am asking is ask whether the syllabus itself is important or is required. We have to ask every fundamental assumption that we have made in our life so far. We have to reexamine that assumption and only if we are convinced that that assumption is correct we go ahead. So here again the point is you take logical operator. The only concept that a student needs to know about logical operator is that there can be two or false. It in fact need not be represented by binary 0 or 1 at all. The question I ask is that when you talk about peripherals and such devices etc etc. I was mostly concerned about that. No, but I am generalizing it and I am asking you a question which a colleague of mine professor Dhandekar at Indore had raised when I had set up the computer science department there was an argument that the computer science of course they must learn basic electronics and things like that. So he has this question that suppose the logic was implemented in computers instead of through electronics through hydraulics. Then would you say that understanding of hydraulics machinery is mandatory for people to understand programming? You will say no. Exactly the same way the mechanical engineer will say I absolutely don't give a hoot to electronics binary representation. This is that logic. I don't care. I am solving different problems. So please put yourself into shoes of others to see this. Exactly. And by the way if it is not a far stretch thing a colleague of mine, Professor Amananath who is a mechanical engineer and professor a great expert in robotics incidentally actually has built and all nor gets using hydraulics and he uses them to explain and all not logic to mechanical engineering. So there is a limit up to which we can take it. What I would agree with you is that as a background information they should know but how much I can tell that in exactly 15 minutes time. Should I spend 6 hours? That is the question. Because if I spend 6 hours in doing that the number of available hours available to me to explain data structures to explain control structures to explain control flow algorithms becomes limited. It limits also my ability to discuss interesting problems whose programming solutions I want to explain to keep people interested. Remember what Professor Amananath said. So it's a question of judiciously using available time. That's all. So thank you very much. I think the feedback from the groupies that you better go back and do something about this course.