 it's this thing. We are live. Okay. Hey, everybody. Thank you so much for joining us. I've got my dear friend Jackie Wicks here. And just a little housekeeping, if you're listening on Facebook, of course, you can share. This will be recorded so you can listen later if you like. You guys are in for such a treat. I love this woman and I love the energy that she brings just wherever she goes, the excitement, the ideas. I always just when I leave coffee with her, I leave like feeling totally energized. I want to go take notes about like yeah, plans and things going on. And I want to pull up her biography really quick and share with you guys. So she is a nationally recognized healthy lifestyle expert co-founder of Peer Trainer in 2005 with the objective of helping people put their health, fitness and weight loss efforts into action. She's a former venture capitalist and an entrepreneur in the tech industry. We'll hear about what she's doing now too. Since 1998, she began her career in strategic marketing at Faith Popcorn Brains Reserve and Peer Trainer. And now she has been featured in hundreds of media outlets, including people, New York Times, ABC News, and strongly influences the industry. And she's just a wealth of ideas, of energy, of joy. I am so excited to have you here, Jackie. So welcome. Oh, thank you. I'd just like to see you. We were just talking about 17 year and months. I know. It's fun just for us to catch up, right? Yeah, exactly. So I always like to start with story. And I'd love to hear, I mean, Peer Trainer was kind of the first book and thing, but you had a lot of stuff even happen before then. How did you get to be where you're at and interested? And you can start the story anywhere you like, but tell us a little about your story and getting to where you're at now as an influencer. That is such a good question. So I met my husband in New York City in 2001, right after 9-11. Oh, wow. And that's when I was a venture capitalist. And he also ran a small hedge fund and did some things. And of course, knew him. And we were talking about different things that we could do. And I had had a dot com. And I was super interested in human dynamics and how we could figure out a way to do accountability for change, but positive change. Because I had experience and I'm sort of obsessed with man search for meaning, Victor Frankel. I'm sort of obsessed with like group, like what kinds of things can happen within groups. And most of the time, it's always profiled the negativity, the wars, the craziness that can happen in the negativity of a group. But it's really not talked about what happens with positive peer pressure. And what I had gotten, so we were talking about different businesses that we could start. And I had gained 85 pounds in my pregnancy. I was at 122 maybe before my pregnancy. And I think, okay, so like 185 to 189. And I thought all the weight would just drop off. And 20 pounds came off. And I was like, oh, okay, well, what's happening? I'm breastfeeding. I don't understand. How could I still have this 45 pounds to lose? And at the same time that I'm sort of obsessed about psychology and group and why people do what they do and internet, because I had been online since 95, my friend emails me and says, I can't believe that I can't stay on track to lose weight. And I know you're your post pregnancy, why don't we keep each other accountable? And I said, totally. But what happened is the second she went out on a date or like had nachos, my partner was like out. I was like, we need more people in our group to do this. And what happened was we formed a group online, but there were no good communities back then. There were no structured communities as weird as the sound social networking wasn't even in the dictionary yet. It wasn't a term. It wasn't known. So we were sending each other emails back and forth. You better pick a salad at lunch. You better go running. And then we were so excited. We were all keeping each other track this group. I would have 90 emails in a day flying back and forth. Why don't we get together and have dinner? And it was so unstructured and so disorganized. So I built a structured like peer pressure for positive platform. So we could all easily see what each other were doing and keep each other accountable. And what was interesting is it was such a natural segue in health and fitness because I started to see I got all these questions like, well, who's going to go online to lose weight? I mean, it was really back then where nobody understood that people needed something anonymous. People needed support. The thesis was everybody knows what to do. They just have a tough time following through. Totally hit on the psychology thing that's so critical, isn't it? And that's what I thought. So I knew the psychology part was critical, but what I didn't know, I thought everybody kind of knew what to do. I got an email from somebody that said, this was like the moment. This is how I ended up meeting people like you and a lot of your colleagues. I got this email and they said, so Jackie, because I'm like the girl next door, hey, I can talk to you. You're not a doctor. You're just sort of curating the community. And we're all just kind of in this together. She said, I had 12 diet Mountain Dews and 12 cans of diet. I didn't even know there was such thing. Diet string cheese. Oh my. Oh my gosh. That's crazy. She goes, I don't understand. I didn't know her voice. She says, I don't understand. I'm not losing weight. And I got this email and like, Oh my God, this whole thing of everyone knows what to do. Yeah. Out the window. And because I had all these people, we had millions of people. Wow. We realized that people didn't know what to do and that we had to seriously form an incredible community of practitioners and experts in all the fields from psychology to science to everything that can actually lead the community. And that's what happened was if I had a problem, I would drag someone in. So my husband decides he's wants to run a half marathon and he starts training 10 miles a day. And I know he is going to crash and burn and get so hurt. So I pull in Phil Maffetone, which is he's the Hawaii Ironman coach that coach for, you know, three time winner. And what would happen was every time I would see a problem that I was having, I would pull in an expert. And then my community would say, I'm having a problem. Can you find somebody? Yeah. And that's really how we developed this incredible coterie. And that's kind of where I got to where I was now. It was really based on problem solution, but as a collective community, how could we all help each other? Wow. That reminds me, first of all, I love it because you're tapping on this untapped thing of people getting motivated by others. And I remember when Gretchen Rubin wrote the book, The Four Tenancies, how much it resonated. I don't know if you remember that, but there's like this upholder, which is the person that doesn't need an outside influence to motivate them. And they don't need it inside. They're very motivated, self-motivated. Those are a small percentage. They don't need the group, but they're the exception, not dual. And then there's the obligers and they have this no internal motivation. They can't do it themselves. But if they have a group like they're in a group fitness class or a group online, they can do it. The questioner will not listen to outside, but they internally can kind of do their own thing. And then there's a rebel at the bottom that like internal out doesn't matter. But you were speaking to that obliger group, which is at least 25 to 30% of the population, which basically they, when they get the group, when they get that encouragement from other people, they can do anything. But by themselves, their personal motivation is kind of lacking and they have trouble and they struggle. And you hit up on this whole group that really, really, really needed a solution. And it makes so much sense. Because even someone like me who actually has the external internal motivation, the group mentality, the encouraging, it's a huge, huge piece. So that's like, you know what I love? Yeah, sorry. You know what I love the most about what you're saying? Everybody always starts beating themselves up. I just wish I could be like, Jill, I just wish I could have that internal motivation. And what you're saying is, Hey, you're just, you know, rather than trying to change and beat yourself up into something that you're not, this is who you are. This is how you can accomplish things. Just form that process and those things around you. So you don't, you can stop beating yourself up and get, you know, get to where you want to go. I love that you said that. Gosh, and I love that you're talking about like being yourself because everybody's different with their fitness goals and with what their body is going to do for, so not all of us are meant to do Iron Man. Some of us, that would be the worst thing in the world, like myself. And honey, both you and I have gone through a journey lately in the last year or two. I'd love to tell people a little bit about that. We're both over 40. We won't reveal our true age, but most of you know how old I am. But having said that, part of our topic is like, how do you stay fit over 40? I want to share a little bit about what I learned, but I definitely, Jackie, would love to start with you because I feel like as we've talked over the last year or so, there's been this real aha moment for you to realize something that you thought you would never do or never be. And now it's like such a party and like, why in the world? And the word that is result, this all revolves around is resilience. So I want to talk about how this fits with resilience, but tell us a little bit about your journey lately with lifting and getting more fit and how that's transformed your fitness. Yeah, I love it. And I love that when I had started on this, I could talk to you and we were sharing so much. To get like a little bit, you know, not vulnerable, but a little bit personal. I kept trying things. I kept saying, I'm not as happy as I want to be. It's not even like, oh, I want to get a little better. I was pretty frustrated. I was like, I keep pleasing everybody and I always have been that person. But I started getting really burnt out going, I can't seem to make this shift. And I understand everybody's kids, but it's not an excuse. I see so many friends that still do for them when they have kids, when they have their husband, they, they have a pretty interesting balance of putting themselves equal as their kids. And of course, I just never have, you know, and I think I overcompensate. I think everyone does, you know, not to get super personal, but you know, my mom had this thing of, I'm first. And if I'm happy, you'll be happy. So I was really like, okay, I'm kind of over here. And I kept trying to, there are so many things I wanted to do. And I would find all these excuses not to do. And I get in this, this just this bad circle, right? And I would just keep doing the same things. It was just a real rut and really stuck. And not like stuck like, oh, my gosh, yeah, this will pass in a week. It doesn't, it didn't matter how many opportunities I was saying yes to how many insanely great things I was doing in my life. And what was so interesting about this whole thing is, as much as I've been doing peer trainer this long, I was always focused on food. I was always focused on sleep. I was always focused on releasing my stress. But when it came to exercise, I was like, I, you know, I'll be fine, you know, figuring out how to maybe do a half mile run. I was always like, I'll never be that CrossFit person. I don't want to be that CrossFit person. You know, I grew up thinking long and lean and ballet dancer, not that it's not still that way. But that's how I grew up with my ideal version of fitness. Right. And would you say not lifting weights? No. Yeah. And it didn't matter how many people I interviewed about weight. I knew weight training and resistance training was everything. Every single person I talked to, especially after weight, you've got to do this no matter what. Even my grandmother, my grandmother in their 80s worked out at Gold Gym. Wow. It's not even like I had a, I had a role model. And I still was like, not for me, all these people keep saying I'm not going to get bulky, but I still think I will. And every excuse in the book, I would see some of our friends and I would say, Oh yeah. Oh, she, she might be lifting weights, but that's for her. I mean, look at her physique. She's meant to lift weights. She'll never get big. So mentally, I was going around and around in this rut. And on Twitter, the number one thing everyone kept saying is when nothing is changing, everything you do is not working. You're almost this dog in the corner that keeps getting shocked and you're just done whimpering. Really. You can see the visual. Yeah. It was just get physically fit, figure out how to get physically fit. It will change everything. And I kept seeing it enough. I said, this is the only thing weights resistance. So this is the only thing I haven't tried. I had a friend who had put together this very hardcore weight training program, not based on CrossFit knows CrossFit really well. He's strength and conditioning coach, but did not, wasn't necessarily a CrossFit thing. So you use some of those moves, right? We said, this is a nine week program. It's extremely intense. We're talking deadlifts, incline bench press, uh, figuring out how to do pull-ups. Every single thing I almost bragged. I'm never doing that. I'm not doing that. Eight workouts a week. So to a day, you know, of cardio and, uh, cardio and, um, weight training, real weight training, deadlifts. I'm in the, I'm in the muscle part of the gym going, I'm just, I just don't fit here feeling so insecure, feeling so weird knowing, okay, I know everybody does this, but like this just does not feel right. It's kind of an identity crisis for you, wasn't it? Like I hear this, like this wasn't me and it doesn't resonate with me, but then you chose to do something. And I just want for you guys listening, this is my, maybe what it's going to take is for you to actually see things a little differently and see yourself differently of what you're capable of because at the core we're getting to this and I'll let you get right back to your story. One of the core things is resilience, which we'll come back to. And this kind of a thing creates, it's at the core of resilience. I have the chills listening to you because after I told, we had gone walking. So I'm going to even reveal what happened. So it's the first workout. I am so terrified. I have signed up for this. I have committed to this. This is a nine week program. I have to take a test at the end. The test at the end is I have to be able to do a pull up. This is the, it's called the ACFT. It's the Army Fitness Training Program. And this is what every, this is going to become the standard of what women and men have to pass. And after you do different things, you have to pull a sled. And after all these things you have to do, then you have to run two miles in 20 minutes. And it doesn't sound like it's fast, but after you've already done this massive weightlifting, it's all timed, then you have to, you have to throw medicine ball, certain things. So I'm, I'm doing it. I hire a trainer. I give them the program. I'm doing it. It's Friday. I'm terrified. I'm eating nachos. I don't even eat nachos. I don't even like nachos. I'm terrified. I go in on Monday for my first workout and I'm like, this is the program. I'm going to do it. And I lift and I, I'm starting, you know, I'm starting the first day. I, I think I have an anxiety attack. I think I'm having a heart attack. And I call up my husband and I go, I think something's wrong. I think I need to go to the, I think I need to go to the hospital. And it turns out, right next door, there's an ambulance. Like I'm in the parking lot and we're next to a place where the ambulances rest. I can't breathe. I can't, I'm freaking out. I can't really talk. I've called my husband to come meet me in the parking lot. He calls over the ambulance and they're like, ma'am, you are not having a heart attack. We are 100% sure you are not in any real danger. And when, and I went, so this is why I want to now come to you where it was an identity. I, my mental identity that I was not this person manifested physically. Yes. Yes. I remember us talking because I was like, wait a second, there's like this old trauma pattern here. These, the, all these things, and that's why resilience happens when, if you're doing the same old thing every day and expecting a different result, it's not going to work. And again, I'll share with you shortly a little story of my own where I really transformed my body, my physical health. And it was something that I never thought possible. It'll blow your mind. So stay tuned, but back to you. I want to hear your story. This is great because your body so consciously still has this image of who you are, who you're supposed to be, what we're supposed to do for fitness, what's feminine or ladylike or whatever things you have. Right. And one of the things we're telling you as a takeaway for women over 40, you do need to do weight training. If you're not doing it, you're not going to stay in the shape that you want to be in. And it's really critical. And I'm sorry. And all of you, I kept hearing it from you all the time. We all, I know ever anyone watching this right now has heard I have to wait here. Okay, we'll all get there. And they're in their head. I swear they're saying the same things I am, but I'm going to get bigger. I had one woman when, when I was telling everybody I was starting the program, they were like, well, I can't do that because I'm already fat. So the muscles will fill in my fat. Other people are like, but Jackie, you're so thin and fit, like, you know, why would you do that? Other people are like, Oh, are you gonna, you can turn into one of those cross fit people? I got it all. When I tell you that me starting this program, I watched it trigger everyone. The only person that didn't trigger was my husband, who said, finally, after all of this, you're finally going to do a weight training program. I couldn't be happier because everyone knew like you knew that it was the most important thing. I have to tell you that weight training is now my number one. And my number one, that it's the scale that I don't know, which one's more important is the fact that I had to commit to the program. Yeah, because I can't, to eight, eight a week, you would have quit after that first experience, no doubt, right? After the ambulance, you would have quit. And I was, yeah, I was too committed to, I was, I was too, but I said, I commit, I hadn't committed to a pro, I'd always committed to food programs and maybe, you know, when they detox or these kinds of things. You know, like, or ice skate, you know, different things, but this one was a really big deal. And after week one, I was like, everybody thinks, oh, you'll only be happy at the end. After day four, I was like, so impressed with myself. I just was like, okay, I'm not weak. Well, I'm pretty strong. I'm stronger than I thought. And every time I wanted to quit, and God was there times I wanted to quit. I was like, no, this is the program. I'm going, I don't care the day to clock at night, I just got off a flight. But the most important thing that happened was, it was the only thing that had ever transformed my mind. It was the only thing that fizz, they were, all these people on Twitter, Twitter were right. It was, I started to feel euphoric. I started to feel everybody, I didn't relate, I know this is going to sound strange, because maybe some of you will understand, I didn't relate to the word strong. I didn't necessarily always want to be strong, but I wanted to feel good. And I started to feel really good about myself physically. And I had nothing to do. I didn't lose a pound during the specific program. I lost massive inches. Like, I could wear anything in my closet I had ever had. But it was more important that I was like, God, I feel good today. And then just like you Jill, because I know you already do this, you motivate everyone around you. Then every trip I made, I had to go help my friend and her daughters in college. God, look at you. Can we come to the gym with you? It became inspirational to everybody just because they were watching my energy level and watching what I did. And I completed the nine. I did the nine weeks fully. I did the test. I failed two of the events. I actually didn't pass the 20 minutes of running. That was two minutes over. But I'm going to do it again. I decided to do the program. You really can't do it. This specific gets so intense. I decided to do it once a year. And I have my testing. I have my records. And I can't wait to see, you know, what I do next time. And I know I've been very round about, but when I was telling you about what I was doing here, and I was like, yeah, the ultimate physical representation of absolute fitness is a pull up. And you're like, yeah, everyone's so shocked. I can do a pull up. But I'm like, wait a minute, you can do a pull up. This is like a year ago, maybe last fall, maybe not quite a year ago, but I remember just talking to the coffee shop. And like, yeah, I know I could do a few. I think, and I told you, I think I can do 10. And I wasn't like trying to be facetious or brag or anything, but I was like, I kind of think I can do 10. But then I remember in my heart, I was like, I just told Jackie, I can do 10 pull-ups. Well, I better be sure that I can. So I pull up bar back there and every day since I've done 10 pull-ups, like I gotta prove that I can. I think when I told you that I was able to eight, so I was close. Now I can easily do 10. I can actually do 20 if I want. But what's surprising, well, this is, this is interesting because women our age, most of them cannot, if you're listening here, I challenge you to try to do one pull-up, like good form. Hang straight, go all the way down. You can do them either bicep or the lats are like this, but it's really difficult because core involves body weight and involves arm strength. I just have to be blessed. I have a lot of upper body strength. I always hated that. It's funny how we have these things, right? Like I always thought I was like football player in the grade school. I was the one with the broad shoulders. Now I'm glad because I got lots of upper body strength. But still this takes, I'm someone who, if you tell me I can't do something, I will prove you freaking wrong. And so I remember us talking to being like, it was more just like, oh, I said something and I don't want to be a liar. So I better make sure. And I just heard a motivational thing. You know, the times when we get more motivated is when we say, oh my gosh, Joe, you're a liar. If you don't do that, that'll motivate someone. It won't motivate you if you're just like, oh, I want to make this goal. If you call yourself a liar until you prove yourself otherwise, or you say you're not acting in integrity, you're going to, you're going to follow through because you don't want to be a person who is not in integrity. And for me, that was a powerful motivation, just our conversation for me to have this pull up bar in my house and be like, okay, this is really important. My journey was so interesting, very similar in a way, because after the divorce, I was, you know, ego was kind of down and I was trying to rebuild myself on who am I after a 20 year marriage fails. And I remember thinking, okay, I'm going to get strong physically because that's something that will help me mentally. And I didn't even know all the stuff that you're sharing. I didn't know the psychology of it. I took up kickboxing, like right after the first thing and I didn't do great because I hurt my neck all the time. And so then I took up some other things, but that being like strong and strength physically really helped me emotionally and mentally kind of get through that year. And then my whole journey has been more the high intensity like running and I would get up at 530 and go do a two, three mile run and orange theory, which as you know is this high intensity training. I love that. I felt like that was my thing, my adrenaline. And I really loved it. I didn't think I was over training and I didn't think I was obsessive. I did love to work out because like you said, it helped my mood. And I would probably work out five or six days a week, pretty high intensity 30 to 60 minutes, nothing excessive. At least I didn't think so. But here's what happened, Jackie, this will blow your mind. And I want you guys to listen closely because nothing in medicine ever taught me this. This is I'm telling this is going to blow your mind. So I literally up until 42 years old was like that. I did high intensity. I did running. I did aerobics. I did all kinds of stuff, pretty high intensity. And I loved it. And then I started working with a functional movement trainer, a check trained trainer that was all about just movement. My first training I had to crawl across the floor because I was just getting motion of my balance in my spine in order. And the second training I had to balance on a balance beam, like really stupid, simple things. And I kind of was thinking during the training session, oh my gosh, let's get going. Let's do something. Let's get the adrenaline pumping. Like it was so boring. But I stuck with her. And I stuck with her. And as she trained me, my whole physiology changed. And at the same time, I was doing therapy and I was doing work because part of this drive to go and to be fast and to be high energy and to be high intensity was the fact that I couldn't sit still for very long. Because if I sat still, my emotions would come up. So I ran and I did and I was busy, busy, busy, busy. So I actually had to work with my mind and my spirit and my emotions to be able to sit still with myself and be comfortable before I could change my exercise routine. And as that coincided with this trainer, I gave myself a three month period where all I did was that trainer, which was two days a week, very low intensity, no running, no high intensity. And all of a sudden Jackie, I started to lose percent body fat. Like basically I joke. I got in the best shape of my life and lost 8% body fat when I stopped working out. Now is that freaking? And I remember, I remember, I remember us hiking and you're like, look, I mean, there was, there's no fat on there. There's nothing. I've never been this percent body fat and I'm not even trying. I've eaten the same thing. You know, we know 80%, I mean, food is really important. I have a really clean diet. So that's been the foundation. But for me this, and let me tell you why, if you're listening, this is a big deal. Cortisol will sabotage whatever you're doing. And if you're someone who's already driven high cortisol, like I was, everything in my life has been drive and go and do and do it faster and quicker and don't rest or you're lazy, be strong. That's been my mentality. But guess what? That'll drive your cortisol. Your cortisol will drive central fat. It'll drive layers of fat around your muscle. And I was driving cortisol by going out and do an orange theory and running. Those are two things that are going to drive up your cortisol. What my body needed was a walk with the puppies, slow for two miles for an hour, and a hike with a friend where I'm talking and like you and I would do maybe 45 minutes. So I still to this day now I'll hike and I'll walk. I walk every day. I'll hike once or twice a week. And I do weights, but I'm telling you, I might do one day, I'll do 20 pushups. I do my pullups. One day I'll do some sit ups. I don't even do the same thing every day. And I definitely don't do sets. I'm talking simple, like five minutes or less types of workouts, maybe three days a week. I barely work out and I'm in better shape at 44 years old than I've ever been in my life. So to me, that blew everything on its head because I thought I was doing all the right stuff with the running and the high intensity and the, I probably burned way more calories. But guess what? I made my cortisol jump up and it sabotaged my weight. And so again, it's funny because I wasn't even trying to lose weight. And like you said, all of a sudden my clothes fit better. And my, I have a tracking device that checks percent body fat by, by segment. So I do that every month or two. And I was shocked to see literally over this timeframe, it was about six months, 8% body fat. That's crazy. I mean, 8%, 10. The other thing that was so funny is because I've known you for a long time and visually the way that you saw yourself versus actually what you look like after you stopped orange theory and all those things, you didn't even recognize it. Because I would say, of course, you look great in that. And you're like, no, not, you know, it's a little bit. I said, oh, you still see yourself when you, your cortisol was up and you were a tiny, and by the way, you've always been, you know, I'm really hate this whole, but, you know, we all, we all have body things, right? But, and we all don't see ourselves clearly and to watch how it manifests itself. You're just sort of surprised, but wait, she does not see herself. She doesn't really know. And it was wild to put up a mirror to you and say, yeah, hello. You know, it was really interesting. I think the thing that I'm the most impressed with is, is your, your, you know, your openness to consistently try new things and you're not wedded to, okay, well, this is what the science said. So I need to keep doing that. You've been so open and you share it all where, you know, of course, when we're sitting and I'm like, oh, I need a link to that. I need a link to this. And I think what happens is, is that you're able to synthesize the information and then make it where, maybe I can try that versus being so intimidated. And I think that that's why I was okay after talking to you and calling an ambulance over, you had explained a little bit like, no, you know what, this is that this, this is a pretty psychological thing manifesting itself. And that for me is what it helped me push through, but it helped me transform in a way that when we were talking, I don't remember the way I used to think I would never think me doing deadlifts would make me look like a crossfit person. I'm no longer intimidated by those areas in the gym. I so, I so look so comfortable in those areas of the gym. People think I'm a traitor and they come up to me and I go, what? Why are you asking me? Jackie, I want to just point that out to me in case we'll miss that because we actually got on just a few minutes before we went live. And I remember you saying, well, I can't quite remember like how I felt it because you were telling me a year ago how you felt and it was such a transfer moment. And you're so now in this new mindset that it's hard to even remember the, and I feel the same like 10 pull-ups. That's just normal. That's my every day when I walk that doorway. Now I want to tell you something else. This is going to be a game changer if you're listening. So Tiny Habits by BJ Fogg, gray guy, Harvard professor and gray book. There's so many great habit books out there. I really like his and this is the thing. So you might hear 10 pull-ups. Oh my gosh, I'm never going to do one, how in the world and be intimidated. Guess what? Tiny habits are where it's at. So what he teaches and what I've tried to do now is I don't ever work out. When I walk through that door, I do a few pull-ups. When I brush my teeth, I do calf raises. After I walk through the living room, I might do two push-ups. But what he does is he links tiny little increments. So two pull-up, two push-ups. Anyone can do two push-ups, right? Calf raises, three calf raises. Anyone can do calf raises. And what you can do is link them to things that you already do. Like, do you brush your teeth every day? Well, probably the answer is yes. So when you brush your teeth, if you link a new habit, like I'm going to get down and do two push-ups or one push-up, number one, it's easy. No one's going to say, I can't do two push-ups or one push-up. When you tag it to something you're already doing, it's going to be this easy thing that just becomes, it's a really easy way to integrate a habit like me. I walk through that door, I have to do a few pull-ups and it makes it so fun and easy. It's just like my little thing in the same way with the calf raises, with the teeth brushing. And you can do this with anything. So what I end up doing is having my day-to-day routine and I'm just doing my day-to-day, my interview, and then doing this paperwork. And my exercise is actually just integrated into my day and I never work out. It's so cool. Like, I never have a workout. I love what you said because I work with an incredible guy, Stuart Watson, and he's just the other day, so whenever I'm waiting for my, he goes, I warm up my coffee, probably like five or six times a day. It takes about 30 seconds. So during those 30 seconds, I do something. So what could you do for 30 seconds, Jackie? And I go, oh, I love doing plank before meetings. He goes, okay, every time you're waiting for your coffee to warm up, go do 30 seconds of plank. And it's exactly what you said and I never understood how powerful it was until what you were just suggesting. Yeah, because it's linked. So you just automatically, same thing. Yeah, I'm making my coffee the morning I go to and I don't, I have a few more to put into place and you can just do one thing for a week or two. And then all of a sudden it's like just natural. It's fun. It's almost funny. He would describe, I love this, because he hated flossing his teeth. His teeth were tight and the floss was hard to get in there and it was like this pain that he knew he should do and every time he wouldn't do it, he felt guilty and he just didn't do it. So he said, B.J., once you brush your teeth, which he did every day, he said, I'm going to floss one tooth. Ridiculous, right? Like how stupid, but guess what? That's easy. He said, okay, how can I say no to one tooth? But then while you're doing it, you're like, well, this is stupid. I might as well do all of them. So he tricked himself into flossing his teeth because, and same thing with like one push up. I mean, really, like, why are you down there? Why don't you at least do two? It's so true. I think so many of us have just been so trained that weight training is for like someone else, is for an athlete, is for somebody who's not intimidating, is for those people I see on TV. It's not that we don't all know that we don't need to do it, these habits, all these things. It's that for some reason we think that that's not us. And I think the most important thing is to say how many people I know that have said, oh, that's not me, just like me. You know, it didn't matter who had told me how much I knew it was true, or all my friends, oh, that's not me. And then they try a few minutes or they hire a trainer. Best thing I ever did was hire a trainer because I was so intimidated. When I wanted to learn tennis, I go, well, I'm not going to, I don't want to mess up my elbow. I want to know the right way to swing. I hired somebody. He taught me the lessons. I had a swing down then I was able to go. I felt the same way about a trainer. It doesn't have to be a permanent thing. In fact, it's better if it's not. It's better if it's not about the motivation. It's better if it's about showing you proper form. It was one of the best things I did was for a specific amount of time. I was like for six, you know, for nine weeks, I have a trainer once a week. I have no idea what I'll do, but I had invested that nine weeks. It was the best thing I did. Totally agree. So I always saw that with my clinic. I used to be under insurance years and years ago with family medicine. And then I went to a cash practice. And I remember the very beginning, I was like, Oh, I hate that I have to charge people for my time. You know, it's a really hard like idea to get used to. But what happened is it wasn't just about me and the services I provided. When patients put in a little bit of themselves with a fee, all of a sudden they came and they were like, Dr. Jill, I'm here and I want to get better. And I'll do whatever you say to help me get better. What would you like me to do? And I'm like, Oh my gosh, I can help you. The other model of interest like, well, my insurance won't cover vitamin D. So what do you want me to do? We want me to pay cash $5 for that vitamin D. Are you kidding me? So the mentality is totally different. So when you invest, I do agree. Let's just, if you're listening out there trying to get fit or trying to get in a new habit, hire someone hire a trainer hire someone to motivate you, this is worth every penny. And it can be short term if your funds are limited or whatever you can do it, or you could even do a trade. Sometimes there's a skill that you have as an accountant or a massage therapist. So you can trade services and you can give them a gift of what you can provide. And then in exchange, you can have their services. And that's a way if you can't afford that you can really make this happen. Because that motivation then is built in. I have a trainers off and on through my life. And they've always been helpful. I don't always keep them. Again, there's a period of time, but yes, super helpful and learning new things that I would never like parts of the gym, like you said, that I would never go into. That's what they would do. Yeah. And here. So unfortunately, you'll hear there's good and there's people that are productive in every industry. There's people that are good. There's people that are maybe not so good. Right. I think that and I don't mean not good. Everybody is a different approach. Yeah. Yeah. And here's the thing. The advice that I got was if that person's not good, don't just give up on that altogether. Be like, okay, that wasn't a fit. No problem. Let me find somebody else. And when you limit it like that, you don't feel so badly. When you're like, okay, I just want to try two sessions and see, then you're like, oh, it's really not for me. Then you don't feel badly. It's not like you have to give up. But I will tell you that the trainer had my program. I know for a fact, if I wasn't on a program, a real program, I wouldn't have transformed as a person. I now think that like program versus weight training, they're both so important. I don't know which one I would rank higher. I totally agree with you. And I think that and to have a goal. So part of the habit forming comes with a reward. So it's very common to like, that's why when we, there's a lot of things that are bad habits, like maybe we smoke a cigarette and we get a nicotine hit. That's an immediate reward for someone who feels that hit. And so they continue smoking. When you exercise, you don't see the next day that you lost five pounds. I mean, unless something really weird happened, that usually doesn't happen. So it's this very long-term program for a short-term, you know, putting out of energy for a long-term goal. So one way that you can actually help your mind get into the program is give yourself a reward. Now don't go out and have an ice cream sundae because then you're totally going to sabotage it. But the reward can be literally, BJ Faw will be like, yes, like just saying that to yourself, I did it, or setting yourself a goal and then accomplishing it, or giving yourself a gold star. I mean, these silly little things, but our mind takes them in as reward. So if you can incorporate some type of reward for when you do meet what you've set yourself up to do, I would highly encourage that. And like what we talked about for me, the reward is just feeling strong. So I was opposite of you and my family because strong was like a really important value. So I always felt like, gosh, I can't be weak. I have to be strong. So contrary to a lot of women, like from young on, I was always like, I have to be strong. I have to be strong. So I wasn't afraid of muscle, but that value was there. But what it's done mentally is know that when I'm physically strong, for some reason, if some emotional catastrophe comes or my office, something happens there, I know like, okay, I can handle that because I believe that I'm strong, even if it's like a physical strength, it translates to emotional mental strength. And it translates to that word we talked about resilience, the strength to overcome adversity. And we all now or before or in the future have had adversity or it's coming. And this physical strength we're talking about actually builds your resilience to handle adversity. Wouldn't you say that's true? 100%. And what it made me, I didn't know this, but and I know that this is a common thing for everybody. I had a real fear of my emotions. I would do whatever it took. I didn't necessarily, well, I would do a complete distraction, ruminating whatever it was, and getting strong the way that you're saying, gave me the confidence to deal with emotions. As weird as it sounds to deal with, oh, I'm scared. Okay, it's okay to be scared. And it also helped me able to stay through the tsunami of, oh my God, this emotion's going to take over me. I better go get one of my distractions. I better go have a glass of wine. I better go, you know, have words, who knows what it is. And when I suddenly got strong enough, like you're saying, I was able to, it was no longer a tsunami. I was like, okay, this is a wave. I'm going to swim. You know, I'm okay. I've swam. Yes, it's hard to swim. Yes, it's very hard to swim in the wave, but yeah, I'm going to get wet. Yeah, the whole thing, but I'm going to be okay in a way that I didn't have before. Gosh, I love that. And I love that anyone who's listening will understand this. We all have medicators. And I love the term medicators, because when I talk about addiction, some people are like, I used to be like, I don't have addictions. That's not my issue. Well, the truth is, we all have medicators, and those are things that we do to suppress or not feel painful emotions. I tend to work. I tend to move or be busy or go run, right? That was my old pattern. Or I tend to, you know, call someone up, which there's healthy medicators too. There's things that we can do like call a friend or whatever. But we all have those medicators. And what the physical activity, the fitness, the weight training and the program you mentioned can do is give you one more tool that you can have to have more resilience and to deal with those emotions and things. It's kind of an outlet in a way to get that out. I also, you know, people like you who are resilient, help people like me who maybe didn't have, didn't have a framework or a map for that. And that really is one of your core values, you know, where you're always talking about your core values. And that's one, I mean, four pillars. And that's one of your table legs. You know, your table is very sturdy with the faith and joy and resilience. And I think it's love, but I'm not, you're right. Amazing. That's exactly. That's like a very strong table. And, you know, that resilience part of it and me watching that is like, okay, you know, this is something you hear about resilience and everything because we all get knocked. And I used to spend a lot of my time going, well, why am I getting knocked? I had the best of intent. How come they did that? How come this happened? I worked so hard. It's the should, right? Stop shitting on yourself. And why is this happening versus understanding that the word resilience, that's where it is. Like it doesn't matter how hard you work. It doesn't matter what your intent was. It doesn't matter what you put out there. You cannot control what's coming back. Yeah. And I think resilience is the only thing that can help you let go of the trying to control the situation. I'm being so mad that, but I did everything right. You know, one of the most popular lines in my community has always been since we launched in 2005, I do everything right. Why can't I lose weight? Why can't I get fit? And it's this being mad versus the resilience of, okay, well, I'm not doing everything right. You know, and that's why I like your table. You know, I call it your table. Like you have a very sturdy table of values. And that has always inspired somebody like me to say, okay, yes, when you remember that, when you get knocked, it really is knock seven, get knocked seven times and get up eight. You have to learn that in life or you'll always be frustrated. Yeah. I just have this vision. It's kind of a funny one. You know how when those like used car lots have a big sale and they'll buy that thing that has hot air going in like a red tube with arms and it's like this thing in the red thing. You know what I mean? Those like blow up things. I just had a picture of that big red blow up air, you know, thing that's like this funny looking animal. And it's like just blowing in the wind. It's just like this. I have that image of just trying my resilience because we just like, I hate what this is. And then we tense up, same as a car accident, which is why like an alcoholic in a car accident doesn't usually get hurt because he's like, I, you know, he's like, exactly. I can't believe you said this because my son, um, uh, I asked him to coach his varsity tennis player. I asked him to coach me in tennis the other day. And he goes, you're trying too hard. You're trying too hard. You're too tense. And he goes, and we all do. We all look at these tennis players on TV and we think they're using all their might and all their strength. He said they're not using and they're so loose. Then you know what he has me do? You have to do this because it's wild. He has me take a tennis racket. I have to hold it like this. I'm only allowed to hold it with three fingers. I'm not allowed to use these fingers to hold a tennis racket. He's okay for him. I'm like, I'm so loose. I have no strength because I have three fingers and it was the best shot. And then I did it again. I think you see this is loose, loose, just like that visual of that balloon. You just said, he's like, this is all my coach cares about me doing. And he's like, relax through the swing. And I went back and I go, relax through the swing. I go, this is life advice. Relax through the swing. We're all trying to get one and the same as look at me for 42 years. I got up at 530 and I pushed and I didn't even know I was pushing. I thought I was enjoying myself. I thought I was doing the right thing. I never like complained about getting up early. I liked it, but I was pushing forcefully against what my body needed. My body needed gentleness and softness and rest and walks with the puppies and a hike with a friend and then a little bit of pull-ups, but that's all. And it's like amazing to me like how in the world did I not love myself enough to listen? And that's what that, if we end here, I want to talk a little bit about where you're headed Jackie, but one note to end on with this is like, you all know yourself, but you have these patterns that you're stuck in. And I just encourage you to really listen to your body, listen to what it needs. And that may sound really esoteric, but your body knows my body knew it needed a slower pace. And as soon as I gave it that, it was like, oh, thank you. How many years were we going to go like that? Let's go out of this flab and this cortisol. I'm like, what in the world? This is great, but I never, I didn't understand that. So listen to your body, be gentle with yourself, be compassionate and listen to what it needs. So Jackie, before we end, I'd love to hear about where you, you've got a lot going on now. What's on your horizon? How can people get a hold of you? Share a little bit about what you're doing now. Oh, absolutely. And I'm helping bring the power plate and people, I think know what the power plate is, but it's whole vibration training. And it goes with the natural reflexes of your body and it, but it engages all of your muscles. It's a technology that's literally been around since the late 1800s. It's gone through Russia used it for their astronauts and there they could keep their astronauts in space for 300 hours versus ours can only be a hundred hours. So it just kept developing and it was really harsh on the body, but it worked. And now it's the kind of thing where it's whole vibration training and it's good for you. And it can help you with, there's 200 clinical studies that prove whole vibration training, but I love it. I have one. I can't show it to you. I wish I could because it's the move. But I have to tell you, it's the best health and fitness tool I've ever had, especially because I've been at, you know, the gyms haven't been open. And it's the kind of thing where if you lift weights on it, it is the wildest thing. It almost halves your workout. So for somebody like me, and also, you know, so I love it, but, you know, I'm still, I'll always have the peer trainer community. I feel like, you know, somebody emailed me the other day who's been with me for 15 years. I saw Jackie at peer trainer.com always because I think, you know, I want to have the peer trainer community forever. It's really a community of amazing people that still do the groups, even if it's not like the most incredible, you know, updated thing, it's a community where it's anonymous and you don't have to worry that like people will judge you or, you know, what they're thinking. Even you're not always using it as a test, you know, when people were like, Oh, you're going to become one of those CrossFit people, that didn't feel so good. Sometimes it's good to be in a community where everyone goes, Oh, you want to do that? Try it. Check it out. Yeah. Awesome. Well, as always, it is so fun. I can't believe how quick our time goes. I hope if you're listening, you found this somewhat helpful, encouraging and just leave you guys with your all resilient. So find that place where you feel most resilient and the things that encourage that in your life, because we all get knocked down by things. And if you aren't in the midst of a trial right now, you either just got through one or it's coming. That's just how life is. So it's much better than to fight like the tennis racket and the whole blowy balloon thing to let you right. That was the best visual. Next time I'm trying too hard, I'm going to be like, I'll always blow in the wind. Awesome. Thank you, everybody. Thanks so much for joining us. We'll talk to you soon. Bye bye.