 computer. Okay, beautiful. Welcome everybody to the 8th of February, 2024 supply chain and trade finance special interest group. We're going to continue in today's session planning discussions from the last session back when was it 25th of January, something like that. And I think our goal here is we we had a lot of ideas. I think there's more ideas that come out today here. And this is more my thought is, if we can come out with a top two or three ideas that we could have out for other people, a more extensive vote, people who can't be here, people who are on the periphery, people who might want to join us that we could get excited about something there. If we came out with a top two or three, I'd be pretty happy from this time. I don't think we need to settle on one thing and say, yeah, this is it here. We also don't want to have 1020 things here. Mine is my current thought. We did not get very much or I guess, very much feedback online. So we may want to go back with that too. But I think the two or three make sense to help us sort through it. So, Kristos, thanks for joining here again. Appreciate that and let's see here. Our session here, we're part of Hyperledger. So all are welcome. We're glad you're here, whether you're online live or whether you're online and watching us on YouTube or off the Wiki page here. Please, since we're an open community here and I trust, I mean, don't say anything confidential that you wouldn't want to share with the public. Keep that to yourself, but all the rest of it is fair game and we're going to have a good discussion here. Next time, this is going to be the last of our formal planning sessions for probably a while here. Next time, February 22nd, we're going to have Lee Lynn Kemp of Everledger join us and she's going to talk about very specifically some of the new things that they're doing at Everledger. So looking forward to hearing from her in a couple of weeks and I know she's looking forward to sharing these thoughts here. So please tell lots of people about it. Let's see here. Do we have, I think, Jeff, you're going to talk after that, kind of go through a little scenario and then we still have the 21st of March and the 4th of April as open slots. So if you know of somebody who you think is really good, would be a really good story to have others here, please let us know. After that, I think we have two or three sessions already booked for April and May. So things are coming together and people are wanting to tell good stories and people want to hear good stories. So with that here, Alicia, Jeff, anything I forgot here, why don't we roll into this? I have that program done. So with some PowerPoint stuff, I'm going to have to do a run through, but we're ready to go. I'll say we. Okay. I'm ready to go with that blockchain demonstration. I've got trade finance in there. I've got AI in there. I got IoT in there. Excellent. NFT tokenization example. So the blockchain will be running on screen. You'll see what, it's an example of a coffee company buying raw beans from farmer co-ops and it tracks the supply chain from that point, all the trucking, all the way through into a warehouse in Newark, New Jersey. And then from there, it's tokenized. I'll give a, that's where the PowerPoint comes in, but it's ready to go. If I had to do it today, it wouldn't be ready to go. That would be why we moved. I haven't had to run through it. Yeah. Anybody else? I've run through it, but. Okay. Let's see here. So, Jeff, I have up the screen here. I know last time we didn't go through all of these. I'm thinking it might be worthwhile to run through, I don't know, Ion and Christos, did you get a chance to look at this list at all since we last, okay, Ion shaking his head. Christos, did you get a chance to look at this list? Hello, everyone. Right. Am I getting out all right? That was a bit, sorry about that. Well, I did get a brief overview, but really they got the time to, you know, think hard on it and maybe propose something. I mean, everything is interesting. I'm not, I mean, I'm lacking a bit of context here maybe, you know, as of the objectives of the SIG, you know. So, and I'm not actually as supplied, saying like, or trade finance professional, per se. Maybe I can get like a couple of minutes to introduce myself, like, please. I'm not either, Christos. Go for it. Who was that? Who was that? See, I'm not a professional. I'm not either. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Let me try to also open my come. I think I should be here. Yes. Hello. Hey, Christos. Hey. Good evening from Greece here. Thessaloniki Greece. Thessaloniki. That is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I go as a software engineer by profession, really into the blockchain both technically and also as a from business perspective. So my background is I've, I started with public blockchains, you know, as a Web 3 also, you know, played around a bit, tried to get a grasp, you know, from this new paradigm shift. And I ended up working for a research institute in Greece. Last year, we implemented a pilot with ACS for a partial delivery on the blockchain. I worked on a hyperlateral fabric for the implementation. So yeah, did a couple of smart contracts and we made the proof of concept together with the ACS company, the courier company. And right now I, my kind of, let's say the bridge that got me here is that I am involved in a research project, which is, it does not involve a technical aspect. It does not involve any implementation of a blockchain as the previous one I mentioned, but it's more like blockchain solution for the agri-food sector. So this is my current, let's say, interest. Although I consider myself a blockchain maximalist, so like, you know, everything for me can and should go into the blockchain, you know, like quote on quote, of course, everything. So yeah, here I am, still testing the waters, considering the SIG, you know, if I'm a good fit and vice versa. So yeah, let's see how it goes. Welcome. Christos, I just curious, have you had a chance to look at the e-book that we published in November? No, I haven't yet. I downloaded it, but I didn't get the chance to open it. Okay. A couple of the cases that we discuss are agri-food related. We also, if you look at our previous meetings, you'll also see multiple presentations by people who are talking about agri-food related supply chain management platforms, and we have a few more coming up. So our next meeting, Leanne Camp of Everledger. Everledger has done a lot in the agri-food area. In April, we have someone from Farm to Plate, and obviously they are agri-food focused. So if that's something you're specifically interested, like me, because this is my, this is what had me come into the, fault on the blockchain rabbit hole, this is a good fit and there are resources for you on our site. I'd also suggest you take a look at the How to Get Involved page of the Wiki, because that's going to give you information how to create your Linux Foundation ID and also different ways to participate. Okay. Thank you very much, Alicia. I have watched some of the previous recordings from the SIG in YouTube, and I particularly recall one with trusty food, I think, was a name, an Italian startup doing agri-food stuff with Hyperledger. So yeah, great, great. Good, good. And I just put the link in the chat here so that if you don't have that link, you have it now, Christos. Okay, great, thank you. And you're very welcome here. I mean, we are one of the things, in addition to having expertise in supply chain logistics, we're also looking for more technical talent. Jeff was, Jeff was, Jeff, do you still consider yourself a software architect? Yes. Okay, there you go. So software architect at British Petroleum BP. So it's good to have technical skills that know supply chain and it's also good to know supply chain kind of stuff. So we're looking, and that helps us, gives us more opportunity to be more in depth here in whatever we're going to do in 2024. So let's go back, maybe, Jeff, I mean, I looked at the list, Jeff, and in addition to the things that I mentioned earlier, I really like, and I'll just throw this out and then I'll let you go through here, Ned's idea on the EBL, right, you know, because they've been funding Bill lading, I don't know if there's necessarily, is there going to never be one standard for EBL, or, you know, it sounds like there's an alphabet soup, and maybe you have some ideas also, I on this one, you know, can we do something there around standardization with EBL or add some value associated with that? So can you just show on the page you're looking at, Ned's EBL idea, because I'm scrolling down the page and it's not popping out for me. Yes, there you go. So Ned added a lot of down in the comments, okay. Down in the comments, yes, about EBL attended a webinar, and okay, maybe there's something we can do around electronic building. I know the trade walls folks, you know, they're doing their own things, right, the DSCA, the Digital Shipping Container Association, they're doing their own stuff. So I don't know if we can, one, either add value, or two, it's just, you know, does it just go up the works by going down that path? We don't have Ned here to kind of talk about it, but I like the idea because it's kind of a fundamental type of document, right? You know, if you're going to trade finance, you got to know that you actually got the stuff, right? We've got a couple of conducts that I'm speaking with about bringing in B-Connect, the Brazilian multilateral trade platform, and I think there would be some EBL talk there, so that that will be very good. Okay, good. Yeah, I don't know how I was going on, the only thing I know about it is, you know, it's even countries are trying to figure out. That's why having B-Connect to come in, there's no standard now. I mean, one of the problems with supply chain coming works up is this whole thing with the volume is, you know, not digitized. There's nobody's got a standard, so it's still bigger. Everybody's got a standard. Yeah, this is why GS1 is doing so much work around standardization, and BSI is doing a lot of work around standardization, so I regularly see new standardization pilots and standardization programs around data for trade being announced. You know, and we had the, you know, Global Blockchain Business Council on with bit of member last fall. Last year. They'll probably go after this kind of thing, so I'm a little, you know, well, I like it. There's a lot of other people going after it. I don't know, Ion and Christos, if you guys have any thoughts on EBL kind of idea. All I can tell you that there is a lot of the internal studies, workings already being done in Turkey regarding the regularity background, how the EBL solution would be used in Turkey. And I have a close friend of mine who is leading the studies in Turkey and it will be appreciated to get her ideas regarding the latest situation of the EBL in Turkey. And I would like to invite her into one of our meetings to get the clear picture of Turkey's role within the EBL. And that's why when I see the EBL in the records of the Wikipedia pages, I have been always thinking to invite her in one of our sessions. That's great. Ion, do you want to reach out to her about, right now we've got 321, so March 21st and April 4th are open. And then after that, the next open days are in June. It might be the two early, but I will firstly get in touch with her and get her idea whether she would be willing to join into such a session or not, because the dependencies of the English language is quite important. Let me contact with her and I shall keep you informed. Thank you so much. Good, good. So the CBL idea, so thanks Ion for your input there. And Christos, if you have some input, feel free to share on that. Any thoughts, Christos? Okay. You don't have to have any. Don't worry. I'm still, you know, learning about the... No worries, no worries. ...terminologies. So talking about standards, you're talking about the EBL, which is, I guess, the most important document on the value chain, right? Yeah. Yeah, no. What would be our output from something like this? If we take this on, are we just having speakers that come in and we're doing a document? Are we, what's our... We could do a blog post on it, so we could write an article on it, put it out over the blog, post it over LinkedIn, add it to our resource list. We're creating this amazing resource library, which all of our past webinars are, also our ebook, all part of the resource library. So if we created a written document about EBLs and how... And DLT used for the EBLs, I think that would be a useful resource to a wide audience. Yeah. Yeah, I was just wondering what our output is on some of this. I dug deep somewhat into the EBL a little bit about... There's complications on those things, because if you look at the optimized supply chain, the building now has to have another concept because it could be food. So somebody loads a bunch of stuff on a truck and gives you a bill relating that... Relating because of IoT devices and AI may change before it's offloaded. So that concept isn't an apparent problem. But I can't remember who was struggling with the idea backing up and saying the concept of a bill relating has to change if we're going to make them electronic. Well, it becomes a... Let's do this in here. If somebody mentioned papers on it, it was crystals or something, where those things come up. That might be good to write about stuff. Here's what I'd like to do in the interest of time. But let's break this because there's some other good ideas that we want to look at. And you bring up a good point on that, whether it's a blog post or whether it's a webinar. Those are also valid things. They don't have to be full-blown project or so. And just to kind of come back here, we're trying to figure out a project that is somewhat something and what I used last time, realistic achievable and valuable for us to work on. And realistically, and I think I mentioned this last time, it's something that in the corporate world or enterprise world could get done in a couple of months. But with us as volunteers and we got our day jobs and all that kind of stuff, it might take multiple months to do that. But we don't want to have something that's too big. And I'm a little scared on the EBL thing that it might be too big and there's so many other places in there. So it kind of feels like either a good maybe blog post and or webinar, right? That has some has some value for three to six months out there and then the world will change again, right? Whereas if we can do something that maybe is provide some thought leadership, whatever that may be. And let me use that as a springboard. A couple of the things that I saw that you had that were in the list here, Jeff. I mean, we talked a lot about the NFT thing. So I don't want to talk about that this time. The one that I liked that was I like this one. This is kind of technology one produce a diagram right? It's kind of a process. How would all this work? And I think some of this could come out of the work that you're going to share on. Yeah, that's why I came up with that. I don't like that. I kind of like that. It's almost like providing a reference architecture, right? Right. A little more techie, right? But could be valuable in what would be, you know, what would that entail from a business perspective? So yeah, so I've attended hyper ledger and a bunch of meetups lately about the financing. I wrote that one yesterday about the financing. They share supply chain, making long story short. Every time they somebody talks about supply chain these demonstrations, they show these block of the truck in the house and arrows going to the other spot. And there's no underlying, well, wait a minute, there's a lot that goes on there in those diagrams. What do you folks actually envisioning? I don't know. And so that's where this came out as a demo that I'm given a few some detail what happens on a transactional level of blockchain and not the amount of supply chain. And so that I'm going to show that lie but then underneath that I put a document together that shows in detail what that is and then how that ties in the fabric. I have only a tech person, but that's what that that is about. Okay, so I can put a deliverable on that one that produces somewhat of a document or I should say all of us and please the document that shows what goes on our transactional level of blockchain instead of these circles and these pictures in the warehouse and the truck kind of boat. It's not that it's not that complicated really to go down a few levels. So okay. If you want to send you a graphic I created back in 2017 or 18, that's basically showing the high level starting at the farm, moving along like here where we're in the truck, etc. And then you can you can just use that to put that like what are the tech steps on so that you're not starting completely from scratch. So a whole lot. So that's kind of we're down in the stack right we're not an application level but it's it's kind of the work that you would need to do as an IT person to take business needs use case whatever that is and actually implement it and you know what's that interface right there's a little there's a little bit of mix. So hold that thought here and I don't know if any of you know this woman Molly White revered her stuff. She's basically a very she comes she can come across as kind of cranky she's a critic but I like but she's a realistic critic of blockchain out there and I put this up here. She basically this right Chris Dixon he's at a 16 Z so Andrews Andres in the Florida wits right and he's talking all you know he's a blockchain fan blah blah blah here's why blockchain so good and she basically rips apart the book and okay she's a critic so she's going to rip it apart but what finally what she came down on was there were no numerics you know or no supporting cases that says hey here's why blockchain is really good so there and here's why it's valuable and here's where it's real and they're all kind of fake things I guess they really pushed helium I don't know if any of you have ever been familiar with helium it's a way you know you buy this helium Christos and Ion you ever heard of the helium okay Ion real fast it's basically you you buy this little think of it like a router and supposedly you're going to collect tokens from people who you actually use your router anywhere it's kind of the idea it's never taken off it doesn't the numbers don't make sense he wouldn't buy this thing uh router I tell him I bought it so my son and I bought it thinking yeah you provided a 5g network for all your neighbors and no it didn't work so really yeah good to hear that yeah it's it was bad and and you know it took forever to bought to get it and then we set it up and it would it didn't do anything so okay okay well it'd be if nothing else all of all of the things that she writes about and I'm going to put this in chat here what she writes about and I actually I kind of I do like her writing because you know she's not trying to you know say blockchain is horrible she's trying to hold us to a standard that the rest of the in a rest of the world why hasn't this taken off kind of thing and you know she's appropriately skeptical about script out and what they're doing so you can look take a look at this you can read the read the article read you know read write on building next year on her take on that but one of the things and this gets into what you're talking about with process here is she mentions in the book in her article this article here protocols not platforms so this gets a little to the standards kind of idea and I'll take this link here and I'll put it in the link in a in a chat also thank you I can't talk in type at the same time which tells you that I'm not very skilled at multitasking okay there you go so this could be another layer of where we're abstracting supply chain types of standards so think next generation EDI or EBL or whatever but maybe at a more techie level potentially or at a more here's the interaction not just to find any EBL because you know that's one part of it but also defining the interactions that need to happen between an organization and you can think about the probably the best example is think about how email works whether you use gmail or yahoo mail or apple mail or outlook or whatever they all go to the same system right they're different different user interfaces in different ways that we all use email but they all go into the same internet team so EDI was hopefully going to be that case right it never quite panned out there's been various and sundry platforms that have tried to be these sessions where suppliers and distributors and buyers can all get together but those have all been kind of closed walls so maybe there's something associated with creating a protocol so I'll let you kind of scan this article and um but think think email and could we do something similar in supply and trade finance to create something that could be an example it might be too much also along the EBL idea but I want to throw it out there as an idea I thought I put one of those in there around fintech and fintech is much bigger than people think it's not news you can't do fintech without a blockchain so I you know she may be a critic but you can't do fintech without a blockchain fintech is in the billions out there so how do you tokenize an asset and on a renewable storage system where people are trading banks are living loans yeah you know blockchain I think you know I think her it's a lot of the questions that I've seen around it is the people that talk about blockchain and do comparison about the america they're very narrow they don't seem to understand the scope that's my opinion well anyway you know we that's actually uh tom there's an entry out there I saw a bot wife of these haven't taken up blockchain well it was an entry where and molly what's that project ideas okay yeah okay well and I don't know let me go back to that here um you know because I because I think there's something there it'd be more around how do we make it positive you know how do we make it take off more or faster where is the business reasons this one right here right yeah I forgot I put that off there well there you now another thing we could potentially do along that lines you know why hasn't taken off this is this is kind of the not so much here's all the 50 reasons why it hasn't taken off right why what's what needs to change and what could we do to help it to take off faster right we know how hard we had to work last year in order to get what we had nine nine solid answers for our ebook right it wasn't terribly easy there um what can we do to make it easier the other thing is is there some sort of numeric rubric or calculator or metric you know supply chain metrics that we could indicate hey use blockchain you can get a 20 improvement in this right whatever that number is so for instance ua ua trade connect find you know platform right because they implemented that I can't remember they were able to find five million dollars with a fraud right where people were going out there and trying to factor in multiple places so you know if we could put some metrics like that or something that blockchain really could do something about maybe that could drive something so let me stop there and see what those thoughts are these are these are tom's tom's thoughts just to kind of gen in gender conversation not that they have to be the main one I've seen around that for some century and the king's reports is it's the same over companies is they've got this legacy installed that they spent all these millions on and so to replace it all with a blockchain solution in america the investment to do that and tear those out the america has to be huge yeah through those new americas so how do you get so something like sap has got a I think they got a blockchain platform don't they we're trying to migrate somebody comes out of sap trying to migrate them over the blockchain that way they did yeah yeah they've also done some of the standardization uh pilots with gs1 um so they have they have certainly done something to blockchain if we were going to do something like this I think rather than what are the business reading reasons for companies not adopting we've got those numbers from the ebook what about when does it make sense to adopt because for some companies that might not like when does it make sense for them not all companies need to be doing this what are they trying to achieve when when does it become a good business decision how do you know if blockchain is right for you basically I mean I've I've talked companies out of irony for projects because all they needed was a website and a qr code and while I'd be happy to work with them on watching that they didn't need it and I think I think being proponents of blockchain for everything all of the time it doesn't make sense especially considering the the the environmental cost the cost of labor the overall effort I think we need to go back to when does it make sense and help help decision makers recognize that going going back to the numbers from the ebook for some companies it really does I just I wanted to mention something we talked about the integration the blockchain I worked at we integrated with core banking systems and if anyone knows core banking systems if you want to talk antiquated systems they're pretty antiquated I mean they never update them but we were able to you know integrate with you know FIServ and FIS and Jack Henry so um yeah I think if we address the integration issues that can uh you know really put a lot of people at ease because yeah it addresses that question of cost and labor and all that to integrate blockchain I think that would be really interesting you know blockchain based technology that's being integrated with legacy technology that that could make for some really interesting presentations that could also make for some really interesting writing fabric has built those little fabric to make the integration easier than some of the some of them are on I think kind of like that I mean I mean Ion Christos what do you think of that I mean it's going to trade finance you're probably talking SAP right all right yeah I know but I have been I have been thinking I have been thinking regarding the whether whether it's possible or not finding the firm's corporations representative of the firms and the corporation who doesn't like the blockchain let's listen their ideas why do they not like the blockchain let's invite the representative of the big financial institutions from Newark from Chicago let's invite them and let's listen to them why do they do not like the blockchain the big problem is that legacy system do never make the enemy any kind of the connection with the blockchain they do not accept them any kind of to build a bridge between their legacy and their blockchain let's let's listen them and let's try to understand them maybe they are right they would they would they wouldn't be right but it might be the good option to us to listen them and to to arrange ourselves whether the blockchain would be needed in the long term or not okay for example all we all we have to consider the benefits of the use cases which we are going to develop if the benefits will come from the users of the blockchain it's okay no problem but in the long run it may not be the possible get the good results if we continue the proposed promote the blockchain they are sitting on the chair they are making the decisions and we are at the other side and trying to trying to promote the blockchain in a different way let's get let's get let's get face to face with them and to try to understand their ideas what the big what the big brothers are thinking I know that Mastercard Visa already developed so many POCs but at the end today none of them is working and that's that's why let's let's get in let's try to get in get with them and try to learn their ideas behind of the why do not prefer the blockchain any block any kind of blockchain traditions so let's kind of let's let's be realistic I mean let's be realistic yeah yeah well and I like to read I like the realistic part I am definitely I think that there's a lot to be learned from those conversations if they're willing to share yeah of course of course but they would they would accept to share to share their ideas whatever it is but the the problem is to find the right corporation and the right persons to to to share their ideas with us right when we're doing the ebook I did run across some stuff on the web companies had adopted or we're looking at adopting to the pilot projects when they back off and they aren't going to explain why I don't remember why but there were some examples out there companies that adopted blockchain and then have shoved it there's lots of examples I don't remember what the issue was there's numerics or what or integration legacy act on that too yeah I there's there's lots of examples of pilots the hard part will be getting people to talk right especially corporate folks who have budgets and say yeah I'm out there and you know do it doing it in a way that enables us to do something about it right and not just not just a complaining session right oh it doesn't do this oh it doesn't do that always this is horrible right and I don't think that's what you're proposing I am so I don't want to you know I say in that it's just an example of some some you're talking about real quick is um last project I did a VP had to do with the deep water global wells out in the middle of the ocean deep water anyway because of historic gulf spill um IoT data coming from those wells and so forth there was a new way of bringing that in so I was involved with architecting that system and getting it to run and it turns out somebody in VP notified me that VP turned around and they've patented that they got a US patent that they're licensing and the architecture so here's a situation where big companies have a lot of legacy apps and they can pull some out if they put blockchain in they're not going to talk about it even it's successful because they're not going to reveal underneath what they did so are we how much of that are we going to run into or do we do we need to do we need to talk to companies you know loads are out there explain the white companies have not adapted it I think you bring up something really good about the companies not wanting to say they did often those companies they're not the one building it was it trust your supplier that gave me metrics on customer ROI for adopting a new platform but their customer didn't want to be identified so this comes down to who who do we talk to it might not make sense for us to speak to the end users but how the tech company to come in yeah this competitive advantage that they've seen they're not going to talk about it right but the tech company might be able to come in and share what's being done and leave out the client information I think it was TYS trust your supplier that didn't wouldn't let me use the client name but they could give me metrics yeah well then we weren't asking for a specific client name so I mean yeah we weren't we're not Oracle or IBM or Microsoft or we need to say hey this is a reference we just say if you're using fabric and you got success from it cool there so so let's call this idea kind of maybe a listening project or something like that right listening project yes that's great oh I like that you know listen and hear what people are telling us or what they are right because sometimes even the idea of them talking it kind of gives them new ideas oh yeah that's right is they're telling the story out there um Tom I just wanted to say one thing that when I was at that blockchain working with FIS they they almost like took credit for the the fact that they were offering blockchain to their customers so I mean they did a lot of events and things like that and you know we did all the integration and all the work but they kind of were like hey you know here here's what we're offering to you we're on cutting edge you know if you guys need blockchain we got it so they use it as kind of like a PR play that enhance their relationship so even though we were kind of doing all the work and they trusted us and all that so I think they and that was something we were worried about is that they were kind of taking credit for everything so but they they want to do a big marketing campaign and you know say hey you know we can integrate with blockchain we've already done it with these guys here's what we can offer you know our bank customers if you want to integrate so yeah I think that the days I don't know how long ago that wasn't that if that was last year or two or three years last when was it yeah last year so that I was it was kind of company called tacit out of New York City was private permission blockchain for banks so they can process B2B transactions around the clock so but the private issue so yeah and why I say that is what I've definitely seen in the last couple years that the blockchain as a as a reason for doing something is kind of gone in the background and companies will talk more about what they can do and then oh by the way the way we do that is via we have a blockchain kind of thing okay so so we want to balance that you know we're doing a supply chain and trade finance and even on this listening do we want to focus or you know let's say on any of this is there a certain area within all of the different things that happen within supply chain logistics trade finance blah blah blah right where we want to focus is there certain piece of all that that we want to focus I mean because because within any of those there's all sorts of different metrics if you will that come into play right that may make it more achievable and realistic to do it because if we do because I suspect if we did some sort of listening project we could find lots of places and to be excited how do we how do we take something out of it right that then is relevant and valuable for people in supply chain and trade finance world right I am you look like you got something to say yes yes go for it as I said before we need we need to find the right persons how we having the having the big and the large business experiences not much more detailed tech expertise but the business vision is quite important to drive the tech that's why that's why I'm always trying to focus myself not on the tech side because I am not a tech person I'm always trying to put myself on the business perspective that's why I'm trying to understand the tech and how I would make it the how I would create a business case depending on on that that's that that that's that's why totally from the practical perspective depending on my practical perspective let's make the breach of the two persons not the two technology forget the AI forget the AIOT those are all for me that's why I need to connect the people that that's crucial from my point of view that's that's that's why I would like to listen the persons I would like to give my own experiences to them depending on my little or large technical expertise that's why I tech would help me to build the bridges between the persons I would like to consider the tech from that perspective yeah yes I know hyper hyper ledger is a technical is a technical area and this is a technical technical functionalities technical expectations but from my point of view we need to make the field full bridges between the ideas not the technical ideas but the business ideas we need to find them and after all we need to build its structure based on the technical improv and that's that's why it will take time but when I look at the past experiences which have failed on the blockchain trade finance and the we need to do something else that's that's why I'm trying to find out what would be the next stage next ways for the future depending on our global experiences which have all failed and all failed all fail okay yeah we don't we don't need more failures man yes absolutely absolutely we don't need any any new failures that's why we need to understand the financial institutions expectations very well we need to understand the swift we need to understand the us government we need to understand to the how the uk was expecting new technologies generative ai is the most popular one we were not talking about it when I look at the four five years ago we were only talking about the blockchain that's why that's why let's forget the technologies for a moment let's talk about the businesses that the global needed well it's the business value that brings and what is the unique value add a blockchain right absolutely absolutely why you can't why you can't do it another way or why you can do it more efficient efficiently and effectively using blockchain and more specifically hyper ledger one of the hyper ledger projects so let's do this we got nine minutes till the top of the hour here what I'd like to propose is let's see um what everyone thinks is kind of their top three here and I just want to say something she's raising her hand I moved some of the ones that we've talked about most to the top of the list because it was it was getting hard to find the ones refresh my screen here is that refresh and then if you scroll to the tops the ones we've been talking about most recently I have added some notes and um move move them up thank you so that people weren't having to scroll okay AI is okay good um one we did just a couple minutes left maybe I didn't there's there's one out there on AI which I've been looking at a lot and I've been breaking up geoffer maybe it's a meeting about it and so and so um I've actually stepped back and thought well instead of looking at what's feasible and what we could do that so value then bring it here and say yeah well hold on one second could you guys understand him because I couldn't understand yes I could hear him yeah as clearly as he usually is Tom I think it might be breaking up on your end at it then okay yep good continue on Jeff sorry oh no I just want to say that went around the AI it's up there somewhere about AI and blockchain what's going on with it today and there's just a lot of stuff around it strategizing and it's kind of like I put that out here in a very big and so I was thinking about taking the time I've already started but what it actually is what are people looking at and then put something together around it and say does this look like something we want to get involved with this year um even in that demo that I have I have an AI example how AI sometimes can steer things wrong with IOT and and FinTech and those things are combined and so AI is important but AI can also make mistakes which I'll demo um and so um yeah there's there's a lot of titan around people strategizing around it but they go out and get a company that says we're doing this so AI we've done this and we're rerouting things and we're blah blah blah that's gonna be hard to find I just wonder it's almost like I what can we publish something and say an optimized supply chain with AI in the future should look like this if you look at the big debate if they want okay um I think what's gonna happen to my demo on March 8th is it um is if you guys see it or I should be able to run through I'm gonna show you what this is and then say is this something we want to explore as part another initiative inside 0.24 over on okay good let's let's let's let's let's let's go around the horn here and in Christos I'm going to come to you then Ion then Ned uh here and then Alicia and Jeff are these ones that have been moved up to the top here kind of this process kind of idea well actually that's kind of a slow no that's a little bit different I think this is different there there were two there was a process idea also of mapping out processes that could leverage blockchain effectively that there was that thought also I can't remember where it is yeah it's it's hard to figure out which one which one yeah it's this one down here see it produce a diagram or e-guide okay yes yeah I'll bring that up okay move that up there so so are these things would be in your top four or did you have one other thing that you think should be different let's just do this fairly quickly here I mean we're gonna need just trying to get it down to some small number we can vote on Christos you like these lists uh is there anything else that we're missing that you think is we really should have in the in the in the voting yeah I I like the list I I find the the last one we talked about uh particularly interesting and uh useful especially if uh what uh uh I am is is is the pronunciation correct correct yes Christos okay okay nice to meet you we are we are we are the we are the Mediterranean guys yes we are especially if it is true which I have no reason to to doubt but hopefully it isn't but yeah I was looking into the trade lens failure for example a while ago it is interesting it has many aspects on it and I think there is a lot to learn there so yeah to investigate this in in any way of course listening is uh very welcome in the useful way always so yeah good good thanks Christos Ayan do you like this list here to vote on or do you think that we're missing so I I I do agree with you and I have no more questions but I do promise to go into details and add my own comments in the coming days okay good thank you Ayan Ned you like this list or uh you you think we're missing something here oh I like the list and I'll just say that there's been a lot of blockchain talk at manifest in Vegas so I think uh you know whatever I can do with the ebls especially um you know let me know I mean it's a lot of chatter okay wake up wake up anti-blockchain is the good two topics what was that Ayan what would you say it's a good topic I I have learned that last Vegas there's a kind of event something like that about the blockchain that that's why I said that Vegas plus blockchain is a good two topics oh there you go that that'll be our in person meeting did Daniela go to manifest was she there I don't know I I haven't heard whether she was there or not it's close by she lives in the Bay Area so I yeah she could bob down so okay Alicia Jeff any any thoughts you good with this initial list here I think no do we want to call the list just the top five and I'll put in a couple of spaces below these five to make it clear that the you know I'll do something to make it clear that these are the ones we're focused on yeah exactly yeah and these are the ones we're focused on to try to figure out if we can do a realistic achievable and valuable project right meaning with our time with our set of skills you know there'll be other people also that will be a part but it's not going to be you know we have a cast of thousands here right and we're not going to work on this full time so did we did we want to sign you up sir we wanted to add in the nfts one as well so that would make it six ah yes the nft one because we had a long discussion about right and we've got bobby coming in to present on nfts yes okay yes we did that's right we did have a long discussion let's add that in yeah so that's I've already added it if you want to refresh okay if I can also propose something last maybe a six and a half kind of thing I was thinking that maybe AI in blockchain's could turn into blockchain plus my my thinking is IOT you know for example so maybe since our you know our base is blockchain and we could turn the the AI in blockchain maybe blockchain plus you know the integration with our technologies yeah for example I would be interesting in AI plus IOT Jeff is more interested in no I meant blockchain plus IOT Jeff is into blockchain plus AI so maybe an asterisk there and we see how it goes yeah I did some preliminary work and there's a lot out there so on block AI almost is automatically integrating with IOT and how that's being used on blockchain um and also there's reason why I think we're talking AI we're right now we're talking large language models like GPT and Bard right they are I have an integration open AI through python but there's that eight o'clock meeting on monday's for there's an AI to support because we're not talking machine learning types of stuff right there's no AI in reality but what's that my opinions my opinion is no such thing as AI right now it's all linear modeling yeah large language models okay AI is the new name but anyway so we so our list has gotten longer but I'm cool with that the good news is as we have we have a lot of different ideas here so I think we show you can add in that so we got it we're gonna have six I think something like that here here's the gold here over the over the you know the next week or so take a look at this list provides a little bit of thinking in between you watching soccer this weekend or watching the Super Bowl if you're here in the United States um take a look at the list and come up you know with kind of what you think or maybe a two or three that one you like it has those qualities of realistic achievable and valuable and could be netted out and ones that you would you'd be willing to work on and maybe do a one two three type of thing and let's see where let's see where we go just put it just put it in the chat at the bottom we're not going to have another call at least scheduled right now let's see if we can do it that way I just re-added the link to this page to the chat everyone on the call right now except for Christos is already in the system with an LFID so you'll get you'll be updated whenever anyone makes comments on the page Christos if you can create your LFID and then comment on the page you'll be able to send it for automatic updates okay so thank you guys for your time and Alicia makes sense what I just said about one two three yes okay good and then we'll count votes we'll put we'll put it into the some artificial intelligence session and then it will tell us what the answer is no we will not do that okay so I'm gonna close it now I'm willing to stay on for a couple more minutes but let me close it and stop the recording folks thanks everybody for joining live here if you watch the recording and you're here still god bless man that's great that you're still here glad you're interested and we hope that you're gonna stick with us here so thanks we're closing out for right now and I'm going to stop recording how do I do that actually more