 Although Roma are the largest ethnic minority in Europe, they still experience high level of racism and have to deal with many societal issues. Additionally, Roma are being represented in a very stereotypical way in the media and artwork. The Roma theater has more than a century long past with a lot of active professional theater groups in many European countries, but unfortunately, they are still hardly known. The Roma Heroes Theater Festival initiated by the independent theater Hungary is the only international Roma theater encounter in the world which have been organized in every year since 2017. Some of the present artists and their work are introduced in our series. Today, my guest is David Schwartz, the director of the play called You Haven't Seen Anything and Alex Piffer, the author and performer of the play. Hi guys, how are you? Hello, hello. Okay, so I will start with the first question and it's super simple. Please, could you briefly summarize what the play is about? Well, our play investigates means and the terms in which Daniel Dumitrake, a young man of 26, has been murdered in the police station, number 10 in Bucharest, Romania. And it is a story of this young man who has practiced something very usual here in Bucharest, which is for people who don't really have opportunities to get jobs and proper jobs. They practice the street service of parking cars. This guy, Daniel, was only 26 when he was restrained on the street by the police. Which actually knew the person, knew his occupation and they dragged him to the police station where he got beaten up and he deceased and he died in the police station later that night. Well, we investigated, and documented the whole thing. And we followed the legal process which took place. It was a long, long process and then after a few years, the policeman responsible, one of the policemen involved in this tragedy, got sentenced to seven years of prison. Of course, we launched the play while still in process and we tried to investigate the particular circumstances under which this happened. And we got to talk to the family, talk to everybody involved in the crime. And we put up the play. Yeah, David, the director, he directed it and he could also tell a little bit more if he feels necessary. I think it's what is important to mention is that in our process of research, we discovered or we found out what we had already in some way suspected that it is this intersection of ethnicity and poverty that bring this, that brought the situation, that brought the situation, of Daniel Dmitrak's death. So basically the police is profiling Roma persons and also profiling impoverished persons. And it's most people who get beaten up, tortured and even killed as in this case. It is many times Roma people or people who look Roma, so looking darker skinned people. And it is also very much class discrimination. It is more or less the police is actually doing the job of cleaning, the city where cleaning means punishing the undesirable persons. In this category we get all kinds of informal workers from parking attendees to sex workers to other groups of people that don't match so to speak with this official people in the picture of Bucharest as a city of, actually it was a city of the middle class or as a city of the elite. So it is this intersection of blood and racism and the class discrimination that leads to this sort of tragedies. Thank you. I had the chance to see the play already in Budapest and it was very tough. Alex, you also perform in the play. Can I ask you what's the most difficult or challenging part for you? Of course it was getting in touch with the family. That was in the process of documentation that we had on display. And yeah, I guess that was the first part where for me it was when this happened and the play was one of my first experiences in social and political theater. And it was maybe one of the first times when I really got to have a direct discussion and get in touch with the real thing on the street as a documentary. And it was the first for me and the real grief of the family of course was the thing that was for me in that moment a little bit of a shock, because that's what the play does. It goes into details with not very nice things that can happen to impoverished and to the poor and to the Roma of course. Well, besides that, I don't know. Yeah, I guess I'm really connected with the family because that's what impacted me the most in the documentation. So when I get to play the family and especially his cousin, that's where I feel it the most powerful connection. Yeah, I guess that's it. Thank you. Okay, so now it's a question to both of you. Could you please share a few sentences about your artwork? What is your art creed? What are your principles in your artwork? Well, for me, I'm no longer a beginner in this kind of theater and I guess this is what I will do as a professional for a long period of time from now on because this is how I really get to be in the society and to represent myself. And by representing myself, my values, my political views, which are related to the human, related to Roma tradition, related to the story and the, how to say it, the poverty issue, I guess these are my three directions in which I want to investigate and go deeper. Of course, it's always the new forms of practicing it in theater that I have to be connected with and be in charge somehow. It's discovering new forms of expression that go a little bit further than the classical ways of making theater. David? Yes, as Alex mentioned, I also see myself as a political artist and I see theater as a means of expressing political ideas and achieving, if possible, a sort of social and political change in the society. So I am very interested in the contradictions of the present-day capitalist society and of the different conflicts and tensions that appear in this society. And at the same time, I am not doing this from an objective position, but I am doing this from the, trying to deal with these issues from the subjective position of the persons who suffer the consequences. So it is a sort of, even if it is sort of doing the theater that is not only about the oppressed persons or categories, but this is in some way analyzing the relations of oppression and the relations of power in the society, but from an, let's say, emancipatory perspective. I'll try to sum it up shortly. Thank you. I would also ask both of you what motivates you, like what are, and who is inspiring you or inspired you in the past and not just in your career, but also in your life. Well, tough question, because I guess what motivates me is the need, the need of reaction, the need of saying things, the need of protesting, the need to let people know of a different story than what is offered by the classical ways of communication. Even the news today, I don't think they really are the news. I think we are fed up with this official story. And it is kind of being alternative. It is the need to dig deeper than what is offered by official channels. That's similar for theatrical and politics, you know. Of course, in the beginning for me, I just told you with this play, particularly, it was the first real occasion to go out and really take, go into action, you know, start documenting, start being what it means to be a political actor. And for me, it really was David Schwartz that first got me introduced to this, it was his place where I first got in touch with this political theater thing. And this got to represent myself also. Now what motivates me is also the need for my kids. I have two kids and they're still young. And I kind of try to offer them a different perspective also, you know, with what I do, with what I try to build up here with my profession, so to say. Yeah, I guess that's it. Okay, so first about what motivates me, I guess this motivation comes from two complementary factors. It is the, okay, so I'm sorry, I have to stop for one minute, but I'm coming back. Okay. You need to do some editing. It's not just me. You have to edit more than one. Alex, did you fill in the time or no? You're okay. Okay. So regarding my motivation, yes. It comes from two complementary factors. First is sort of indignation towards the situation of the society, which you can see in everyday life, in every aspect of my family, of my community, of the city where we live in. And now as we live in sort of a global, in a global village, you can see it, if you want to be a little bit conscious and a little bit well-informed, it's obvious that there is a huge disparities, contradictions, and struggles in the society are bringing us to a sort of moment of crisis. And the experience we all had this year with this pandemic situation is only exacerbating something that was sort of filling in, sort of a feeling that you could have in the society. So first is obviously a sort of need to contribute to a change for the better because the situation has become sort of unbearable. And the other factor is also a sort of, it's sort of a tradition. Also in, so there is a left-wing tradition in theater and there is a left-wing tradition in politics that sort of inspires and inspired me for many years already. And yeah, regarding sources of inspiration, I have had, I have so many and so different and it's, when I have met people who got evicted from their homes and we struggled together to support their fight, their struggle against evictions, this has inspired me a lot in my work. It happened when I was a very young artist. It inspired me a lot in my work and those people inspired me. What I have met people who are now 90 or 95 years old have been part of the anti-fascist resistance in the Second World War. This has inspired me a lot as well. But on the other hand there is a whole tradition, a political theater from Bertolt Brecht and Erwin Piskator to present day artists who also inspire me quite a lot. So there is a big range of inspirations and also deep motivation that comes from the structural context in which we are in. Thank you. Before my last question I would also ask, what do you think about Roma theater, Alex? What does it mean to you? Do you consider it necessary to have Roma their own institutions? Or what do you think about it? And also, David, be free to add your thoughts. Well, the problem with the Roma theater is let's put it this way. Romania has a long history of Romanian romans. Do you have a long history here in Romania of oppression? I mean, just for the record to say so. Roma have been slaves in Romania for 500 years. 500 years history of the meanest and toughest form of social exploitation by human race. It's 500 years. Not until now, it is just 150 years when the abolition of slavery happened. No compensatory measures have been taken by the state. Not at that time, not even to this day. The state has not recognized the slavery, the history of slavery. They are not recognizing maybe in the last years they tried to kind of mind that they do so by mentioning the Roma as a holocaust victims, you know? And bringing things to this day, there is no state theater for Roma actors in Romania. Budapest has one. Everybody has one. Other communities in Romania have it. And we are talking about, for example, the Jewish community, which is somewhere David could tell us more exact figures, but it's something related to the thousands, maybe. There are 100,000 people in Romania and they have state theater. Not since now, but since 60 or 70 years ago. I hope I'm not getting the figures. 71. 71 years. Okay. Roma do not, and I repeat, do not have such a state theater. It would be an obligation, a moral obligation for the Romanian state to offer the conditions of having this theater. But this doesn't happen. And this is not the only thing. Roma actors in Romania are only a few hand of people. Why? Is there access to institutions? Why? Two million people in Romania. Two million Roma people, a huge community. Well, that's the most pregnant tissue of the Roma theater. In these conditions, all we can do is build up identities and build up theater communities. And this is not possible if there is not understanding and acceptance within the members of the community and having a common goal, which should be, I think, instituting this important presence in the cultural life of a country. You know, this is what upsets me the most. The non-existence of this state theater. Well, we'll have to do it on our own. It is only a problem of building up a force strong enough to demand that and strong enough to even create it by itself. Of course, this is beautiful theory. And until this happens, a lot will have to be done by particulars, Roma actors. And by that, I mean Roma actors that have to build up communities that have to bring up this issue until it's solved. And this would be a recognition more than necessary from behalf of the state. This is my opinion. Thank you. Lastly, I would ask you, what is your future plan? What are your future goals in life regarding the career, your career? And it's a question to both of you. I think now it is more than ever a problem of surviving as independent artists. And for me as an independent artist, surviving is what I did before. Surviving before the crisis, I mean, the pandemics. And surviving it will have to be from now on till, I don't know. You cannot really tell in this time what will be within the next six months because of this huge, huge health problem that we are facing. But on a long term, of course, I will keep making social and political theater as a mean of living. I don't know, as both a means of living and a personal statement. Thank you. Yes, for me as well as now, especially in this time that everything is so uncertain, I think we must reflect more on what are our long term goals and objectives. And it is also a time of reflecting upon our past and what have we done so far, what has worked, what hasn't worked. So it is sort of a moment of analyzing and of a moment of uncertainty, which I think we have to assume and to reflect more and maybe project less or project more in terms of goals than in terms of projects or particular projects. So just as main goals for me, of course it is very important to continue my work as a political artist and as a member of a political theater collective. But on the other hand, I think more and more about pedagogy and about how to transmit things to a next generation and how do we do that the political theater that has emerged in Romania with quite a big success in the last 10 or 15 years, how do we do that? It will not be just a fashion of a generation, but how to make it a long term an institutionalized way of making theater and relating to society and to the problems of the society. Thank you. Okay, so thank you for the discussion. It was very interesting. Now you can see the performance called You Haven't Seen Anything directed by David Schwartz written and performed by Alexi Fer. Enjoy the show. Thank you for the opportunity. Thank you. Thank you.