 Hi, I'm Mark and I'm here with Mike Killen and we're going to help you to sell service design with confidence. If you have no clue what we're doing here or who this guy is, make sure you check out the first video in this playlist because we explain everything there. The way we're going to help you to solve real-life service design sales challenges is by re-enacting what actually happens and showing you sort of a before and after. So we're going to do a little bit of role-play. Now to paint the context, to paint the picture, I will be playing the role of the client. I'm an HR manager at a big insurance company and my goal is to improve the experience of new staff onboarding. I want to get my staff working more productive quicker and I want them to enjoy the process more. Mike, you're going to be the service designer even though you don't know anything about service design. So we'll see how that goes. So I've heard something about customer journey mapping. I heard it at a birthday party and somebody told me that that might be a way to actually uncover opportunities to improve our employee experience. I did some googling and I uncovered your website, Mike, and I sort of thought, well, let's pick up the phone and call you. So we're going to jump into the conversation at the moment where I actually ask you to give me a ballpark figure or a range. What a typical customer journey project will cost, right? And we're going to do the bad version first, yeah? We're going to do the bad or the version that actually happens most of the time, right? Are you ready, man? Let's do it, yeah. Okay, so the phone rings. Hey, Mike, good to have you on the phone and the price that you just gave me for creating just two customer journey maps, wow, that's a lot. I wasn't expecting that. So I'm not sure if this is something that we should continue with. Okay, so you've gone through the proposal and you think it's too expensive. Is that right? Yeah, what you just told me on the phone, eventually we'll just have two big posters, right? I'm trying to justify in my head how the price for two posters matches with the range you just told me. Well, we give you the full kind of design portfolio and obviously we work with you to start with, to go through all of the graphics that you want and the kind of branding to make sure that it fits in with your company's aesthetics. We're pretty standard, to be honest, across the middle of the range. This is a pretty standard price, you know. We are cheaper than some of our competitors because we don't have as many expenses as some of them. And yeah, this is a pretty standard rate for our process. What do you think you would be willing to pay for something like this? Yeah, no, I don't know. This is like the first goal I'm doing. I just did some Googling and I'm just exploring what the typical ranges are. So I need to go to find a budget somewhere in the company so I have no range at all. Okay, well, maybe if you find out kind of what you're willing to pay, then we can kind of take it from there, I guess. All right, I'll get back to you, Mike. Okay, thanks very much, Mark. Thank you for calling. Okay, cut. So let's get back on the phone, Mike, and do a sort of a different scenario. I'll start by saying the same thing I did in the first call. So, Mike, just from what I've been hearing on the phone right now from you is two customer journey maps, typical project in that kind of range. Wow, man, that sounds like a lot of money. It seems quite expensive from what I've been hearing. Yeah, tell me about it. I completely agree, you know, what isn't expensive nowadays. Mark, tell me, at the moment, are you renting? Do you own your house? I own my house. You own your house. Are you paying? Do you think too much for your mortgage? Do you think it could be less? Yeah, I would hope so, but if I look at the market, I think we got a pretty fair deal. Okay, fair enough. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if you're anything like me, but I overpay for everything. I'm overpaying for my credit card, I'm overpaying for bills, I overpay for my phone, I overpay for everything. That's just the world we live in at the moment. But we can get started today if you want to get started with us. So we've actually got some free time next week on Tuesday around three o'clock. How does that sound for you? Well, I'm still not sure if we even have the budget to continue with this based on the range you gave me. Absolutely fine. And to be honest, you don't have to worry about the price until we have figured out what you want. My advice would be don't worry about the price just at the moment, whether it's too expensive or too cheap, whether it's middle of the road. That's irrelevant at the moment until we figured out exactly how we can help you in your business. We're not even going to worry about the price. So like I said, we have got some time on Tuesday, or we could do Wednesday around three o'clock if you want us to come in and take you through what it is that you guys are looking for help with. All right. Well, I guess that could help. Yeah, let's do that, Mike. Fantastic. Is that Tuesday at three then? Tuesday, let's see my schedule. Yeah, three works here. Fantastic. What I'm going to do is I'm going to pass you over to my secretary. She's going to book all of the times and I'm going to come over to your office around three o'clock and we'll talk through how we can help you as the HR manager. Interesting. All right, Mike. Let's unpack what happened here. I didn't squeeze you all the way through. You could have done it if you wanted, but yeah. You could have made it more difficult for you, but sort of unpack for us what was the big difference between the first and the second scenario? So the overarching kind of theme throughout the two calls was that first of all, price is irrelevant. At the starting point, you're right. They don't know their budget. You don't know. They say it's too expensive, but it doesn't actually matter. None of that matters yet because we don't know anything about the customer. We don't know enough about them to determine, well, yeah, maybe they do need a $25,000 package. Maybe they need a quarter of a million dollar package. It's always too expensive. When I go and buy petrol for the car now, it's always too expensive, but the reality is I have to get it. The second side is they never said no. They never, why would you call me up? You're here now having a conversation with me. Why are you calling me up? So evidently, the price isn't the reason they don't want to buy. They want reassurance that the price would be worth paying for the service. And I think a lot of the time, like I did on the first call, I tried to sell, so I tried to talk through the features that were there, like, oh, we do the graphics and the branding, and we work with you and it's a four hour workshop or whatever it is. That's irrelevant at that point. What we want to do is have more of a conversation with the customer or the prospect and delve deeper into those questions. And you'll notice on the second call, all I tried to do was just try to get that next call with you. I just kept saying, let's get on a call three o'clock Tuesday, three o'clock Tuesday, three o'clock Tuesday. Why is that the thing you're aiming for? Why is that the next milestone? Because that's the only thing that's going to eventually get to me leading to a proposal, right? It's not a case of customers never, there might be one in a hundred customers who calls you up and says, hey, we've got a budget. It's 50 grand. We've got our checkbook ready. What can you do for us? But that doesn't happen with the majority of sales, right? It does occasionally happen. I'll admit that. But we know that we have to get them to the next stage. It's a bit like marriage. You know, Ryan Dice uses this example. Even if as someone who is about to get married, I knew as soon as I met Liv that I was like, I'm 100% certain I'm going to marry this girl. If I proposed to her there and then it had been a very different story. We have to go through those stages. Right. And yeah, that's that's all it is. Just be confident. They're not saying no. Why do so many people struggle with this? I think it's because we have funny conceptions around money. The Western society has a bit of a weird thing about money and what it means. So when anyone brings up price, we assume they're rejecting us. My stepfather is a great example. Everything's too expensive for him. He's like, I'm not doing that. That's way too expensive. He still does it though. He still remodels the house. You know, he still spends the money, but he grumbles along the way. Most people just want to be heard. They just want to say, Hey man, I'm having a conversation. You know, you're playing the HR manager. I really want to do a good job and not blow my budget. Can you help me through this? And you, you don't know me. You don't want to give me a 50 grand budget and then just it goes up in smoke. Right. So you are literally asking me when you say it's too expensive to you're saying, can you justify this to me? Right. And it's not, it's not a no. They're already on the call with you. Usually the clients are not educated well enough to actually judge if the value they're getting. 100%. Right. Yeah. And people don't tend to buy based on the number of features anyway. They basically buy because they feel that you understand them enough. That's really why they buy is because they feel, yeah, Mike really understands my role and my jobs and my problems. All right. Leave a comment down below. Leave a yes. If you've ever been in a similar situation, I would be surprised if we don't get a lot of yeses. All right. And how did you manage this? What are, is this a common object here? We would love to know. And in the next video, we're going to help you with the next sales challenge. And that will be about when clients tell you they are not quite sure if they actually want to move on or if they want to move on with you. So we'll hear about how Mike handles that. If you want to learn that, click this video and we'll see you over there.