 Hi, everyone, it's MJ and welcome to the third episode of the actuarial podcast As you can hear I have got some guests for this one as we're gonna be talking about Entrepreneurship and startups in Cape Town So I thought let me invite the guys from Radcast who are doing something pretty pretty epic So yeah for this podcast We're gonna just talk about entrepreneurship in general like what's the whole startup scene in Cape Town and then the second part We're gonna yeah, learn a little bit more about Radcast and what they're doing But let's let's find out a little bit more about the two people we have with me today So Dom, Josh, I don't know who wants to start give a little little intro Like you know where you where you from what you studied. I don't know something interesting about yourself So Josh's story is more interesting than mine. So I'll go first I studied accounting finance and soul destruction Accounting Yeah, it was a very bad decision terrible after season that I wrote my board exam in January and then Decided not to do my articles. I had a job at Deloitte London. That's a smart out smart choice Smart man. Yeah pulled out because we were funding for our Company from Ellen Gray's VC arm, which is called E squared. Okay, and we've been doing that for the last two years Fantastic. Awesome Cool. What's up, everyone? My name is Josh. I actually not many people know this But I also started studying accounting was a little bit of a quicker learner than Dom and I quit after six months Changed to make a tonic engineering which I absolutely loved Dabbled in a bit of bio and spider botics for my kind of specialization worked in cancer diagnostic research for a while And then Dom pretty much convinced me after hours to leave my job in medical tech and join him in the startup world So my parents were thrilled But it's been one of the best decisions ever and we've had an incredible roller coaster journey. So, yeah Josh has been really modest. He was top of his class in engineering class. He's got a brain tumor. So he's living with cancer guys Actually tomorrow is six years since he was diagnosed. Oh jeesh They told him he had three years to live. So it's pretty cool that he's still here You know, we haven't got 2x ROI on our VC fund yet, but I've got 2x ROI on my life expectancy so far That's good. That's good. And he still manages to keep a sense of tumor Yeah, but I just to clarify fact, I'm not living with cancer anymore It was act my I had a brain tumor that was acting malignantly in 2012 and I was given three years to live in October 2012 and from then this is a story for a whole nother podcast possibly but Yeah, I'm all good now kind of in remission and it's it's acting benignly now So all good life expectancy pushed out significantly and this is relevant to Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, so I mean well you tell me This is the interesting thing with with actual science is the one stats like around cancer that people like to say is like Oh, look, so many more people are getting cancer You know and they say oh it's because of cell phones technology and all of these things And that's the one theory that people put forward But as actually as we're always told to question the data and say well, hold on Maybe more people are getting cancer because technology has improved in picking it up So before, you know people would might have been dying and we didn't know that it was cancer But now because we have better understanding So it's one of these things where we've got to be very careful where just because we see an increase in a trend It might not necessarily be because that thing is increasing. It's just because we coming better at picking the whole thing up It's the same with negative news. So, yeah, if you look for it, you're gonna find find a little bit more of it But I want to ask you guys a question just to like your kick kick start and seeing that you both have a little bit of an accounting background I'm expecting I'm expecting a good answer I'm actually gonna be very disappointed if you guys don't get this one So no pressure, but in your own words or in your own mind, what do you think an actuary does? Firstly, I love it when people say in your own words I'm sort of using the words that everyone else is using Fair enough, but you do have a computer with you So I don't want you like to quickly Google the actuarial definition Don't like to take adages literally So an actuarial scientist is someone who Goes to Vasti to tell everyone that they're doing actuarial science and then in the second year they do something else Okay, that's quite it. That's like very broad. I mean, that's the popular opinion because that's what a lot of people thought I was gonna say it's it's gonna be tough to factually top that I'll try be a little bit more serious and say that an actuary is someone who builds mathematical models to predict future outcomes in various industries for financial applications Mostly, okay. Yeah, Josh. Josh wins that round Well, he wins it not only in the definition, but also because y'all the term is actually not actuarial Scientist although although you see like all the kids graduating nowadays and they say I'm no an actuarial scientist So maybe the millennials are gonna change just by you know, but shea shea numbers change that but It's it's works. I mean, I thought actuarial science was all about mathematics that was I did world math people said come to actuarial science But it's more of a business degree than anything else And I mean we look into marketing. We did a whole whole podcast last week was on ethics You know, we do more than just numbers, you know a mathematician or a statistician would just be focused with okay How do I make the numbers work? How do I make this theory and this proof and make everything look good and actually has got some practical applications You know, how can we use these numbers to either improve a business make life better for for other people? so one thing that actually is I wish would get more involved in is You know entrepreneurship and startups and all that type of stuff. There is actually an actuary involved in the space I don't know if you guys ever heard of a guy called role of Bootha Yes So yeah, so and he he studied actuarial science at at UCT and I mean now he's got one of the biggest like funds Yeah, and Yeah, I think they've got like a little bit of a stake in Instagram and what's that app that designs games unity I think it's called. Yeah, they're huge. They've got sequoias in the top companies in the world Isn't that the biggest? Yeah, sequoia is like regarded as the best piece you find on earth and that's because they have an actuary Think about it because you've got all these startups. I mean what a big thing to start ups is risk And and that's one thing that actually is like to pride themselves on we like a little bit obsessed with risk We're obsessed with risk because risk contains randomness and that gets us excited But risk also has consequences. So it's not just a variability for the sake of it There's actual consequence and we find that we can use ways to mitigate that risk and you know get rid of it So that's why even like we've got Hurricane Michael, you know causing terror and I'm just thinking oh, you know Catastrophe models, you know, how would you like base the prices because it's an interesting field that actually can also go into is You know where the forecasting and all that but the job this this podcast is about entrepreneurship And I mean you guys have heard of discovery in South Africa Yes, yeah again, that was an actuary who had a little bit of an entrepreneurial spirit and Yeah, I think discovery is the biggest medical aid in South Africa was like the most well-known one and They even now branching out and you see them sponsoring like I think the Premier League We saw vitality on one of the games. I was like, hey, that's like a discovery little discovery offshoot But tell me with your guys business when you guys started up, did you have any risk management strategies? Or were you just like this is our idea. We're gonna go with it Or did you say these are the five things that can absolutely ruin us? Like did you have any of that discussion or was it just like how we're gonna make this thing work? I think we sort of abide by the advice that Paul Graham gives He's the founder of why I see the biggest accelerator in the world Almost successful and he just says the only thing you should be focusing on is product market fits and growth So we just as an indicator product market foot in the early stage So you shouldn't be worrying about absolutely anything other than making something that people want and something that people love So I guess we did consider the risks and what could go wrong, but we were more just focused on can we make something that people want? Well, I think that is in it in and of itself if you think from both principles the ultimate risk mitigation strategy Because the ultimate risk of a business is that you design a product that no one wants So you're answering risk number one instead of downstream of that saying okay What is the risk of a competitor moving into the space? It's a bit city if the space is not someone anyone should be in right so that's kind of root one is what Dom's talking about is Obsessing about product and how it interacts with your potential customers and seeing if there's really something there Okay, that's been our approach and our philosophy that we agree with and then there's this other stat And like I say all stats you have to take the pinch of salt You don't know how how true they are But there's that stat that says you know eight out of ten startups fail Something like that and I remember when when I started like getting into entrepreneurial stuff I was like oh that doesn't apply to me You know and I started this website back at university called drop-in shop it was like reverse auction meets take a lot and It failed off the format and then my next business failed Then I made a couple of apps and they all failed fail fail fail I think out of the eight I've started all eight have failed Me the next to the next you're gonna be big ones. It's gonna be huge folks It's gonna be huge, but but tell me how how did you guys were you aware of that? Because I'm sure when you know when you tell people I'm going into the start of space You're close friends because other people should be like good luck, but your close friends like guys Hold on. Do you know what you're getting yourself into? Are you prepared that failure is such a high likelihood? Did you guys have those conversations and were you like it's different for me because we've got this better or What was the full process behind this behind knowing that truth coming into the startup space? Yeah, I think that's a great question MJ and I definitely will admit. I think we had a bit of naive confidence that we were young talented guys and we were gonna work on a great attitude. So Yeah, we I think we thought we had a fair chance at success, but Yeah, we were at the same time very cognizant that this might fail and I think going in our decision to do a startup was fundamentally predicated on a Life position dom holds that he's converted me over to which I think is really cool Is that when you lie in your deathbed? Hundred years down the line or whatever it is for us these days Do you not want to look back and know that you took some risks and how that added to the interesting story? That is your life and for us that meant that doing a startup and entering this ecosystem was the right thing to do Even in complete failure because it does give you a really cool story to tell and even at this juncture We haven't succeeded yet, but we have some really cool stories to tell and Compare that to our friends who are doing the articles. No disrespect to them. It can yeah, it has a bit more flavor and then Yeah, on on the whole notion of eight and every ten fail. This is just my opinion and I'll add to what you're saying is that I think Startup success is a probability distribution And the longer you are able to stay in the game the higher your cumulative probability of success will be So if you commit like 20 years to being an entrepreneur I think you're giving yourself a fair shot at succeeding in that space and over time your probability of succeeding in subsequent Attempts will increase because of your cumulative learning. So the exact nature of your Personal probability distribution will be contingent on a number of factors Intelligence how hard you work how much sacrifice you take all those different factors timing luck time all of those things But the longer you can stay in the game you only increase your chances So yeah for anyone who's thinking about getting to entrepreneurship It's definitely something to take into Take to heart and I think one of the mistakes we made and we've learned over time is that we originally said we're gonna commit one year to our first business and We've got nothing to lose we lose one year. So what if it goes huge great? We've succeeded and it's just not the case if you want to have a different entrepreneurship You need to give yourself a fair chance. Yeah, like yes things like Instagram blew up after three months But they are the one in a billion like most businesses are gonna take three to five years Well, I think there's there's this optimistic bias that we have in our society where from an early age we were told all these childhood nursery rhymes Disney stories where there's always the happy ever after and News likes to focus on the success of entrepreneurs, you know that like overnight Yeah, you'll never turn on to BBC News and be like, oh, you know MJ's app on hype coin failed, you know terribly today You know they then because it's not a big story. It was small. No one really cares It's only when something big like Instagram snapchat and all these things blow up that they get a news story And then we all start thinking wow you start an app and it's super successful Hmm or in like my case you get a lot of arrogance from studying a true science And you think oh, I'm smarter than everybody else, you know that eight out of ten doesn't apply to me But then when you keep failing you start also realizing hold on I'm failing a lot and I'm quite, you know open Sometimes okay, I failed this failed that but a lot of people don't like to promote their failures So we've got the people who are when you're getting like a magnifying glass and the people who are failing like hiding it And there is this incredible distortion Which is depressing because I like being an entrepreneur But it was so depressing that that stat was I should did go and work for a bit went for 14 months And it makes me think of what you say the stories I mean of those 14 months they're building back-end systems for insurance companies. I don't really have any cool stories It's not like yo guys, you know, I made this funeral product and it had like a benefit They paid out one month after the funeral. Yeah Cool story, but you know when I talk about my apps and the one where I got sued and there's like a court case looming and you know The sleepless nights, you know what interesting. Yeah, it's a lot more of an interesting story than in that So I've I'm like yeah on your guys side in the sense that I said I don't want to do the corporate world. I Wanted to do the entrepreneur thing. I like being the master of my own fate I did read somewhere and I think you guys can comment on this there when you work for yourself You work much longer you earn way less, but you are much happier Would you guys agree with those three statements that you're working longer? You're earning less, but you're happier Well, I've never worked in corporate, so I don't know what to compare my experience right now, too Okay, but I would say I'm happy. I wake up each morning feeling challenged and excited to get into the office and Happily on a Friday night will work till 10 11 at night It's not because someone's telling you to but because I'm enjoying what I'm doing at the same time. It is incredibly To multurous rollercoaster of emotions within one day I can go from feeling on top of the world to feeling absolutely depressed Within a matter of hours within a matter of two hours. I can go from the top to the bottom What gives you the heart? What gives you like the happiness? Like I'm seeing another sign up or yeah, I would say the feedback we get from our users We've been getting voice notes and messages from people saying that they were crying in the car because they were so moved by a piece In the round costs, and I think that's really each message like that is sort of like a blow of wind into our little pirate sale I'm glad we're a pirate ship We'll talk to me a little bit more about this this red cost because what what was the general idea behind it? Because I know you guys started with something different. I think yeah when I met you guys Josh and we still don't know where we actually first met we bumped in in that coffee shop, and we're like, I know you yeah We don't know where we don't know where the first thing was and but I think Dom I met you at that the toad. Yes at Chelsea's at Chelsea's birthday. Yes But back then you guys were doing something different. What made you change to red cost and what exactly is red cost? Cool. Oh, should we talk about the journey first or what it is? Yeah, you can go go with the journey cool, so We originally started with an alarm app called rooster It pretty much was an app that could wake you up in two ways that were far superior to an annoying beeping noise One being that you could wake up to your friend surprise messages So I could wake up to MJ telling me about how many risks I have in my life or I could wake up to these short audio clips So two minutes of inspiration one minute of comedy some bird calls a yoga meditation All these kinds of things which would Kind of wake you up in a much better mood and much cooler way than a normal alarm And it can be Cost is quite a silly fun concept But when you phrase it in the context that they're two billion people in the world with smartphones Conservatively one billion of them using them as an alarm. It's a daily routine. That's a pretty high-impact Business or idea with paradigm shifting behavior But anyway, there were a lot of obstacles with it first and foremost Mobile operating systems just didn't let people create good third-party alarm apps But it took us to America and Silicon Valley where we had a very impactful meeting with Google a Product designer Google and he was really interested in this concept of short audio He was like this hasn't really been organized in the world And I think you guys really have something there and we saw the behavior with our users as well in that they were Setting alarms purely for the sake to listen to a comedy clip or an inspirational message So we're like, let's put this together in a much better package And hence rad cost was born and I'll let don't tell you about that cost So rad cost is like a customizable playlist of short audio content Essentially, we want to be better than radio stations and that you can personalize what you want to hear of us What you don't want to hear so we have segments like quiz news Local news global news good news, which is quite hard to find these days at tech business sports comedy positive injection You choose which segments you want and then we stitch those together and send you your own personalized podcast basically and We send it on WhatsApp, so you don't need to download another app or anything like that. Okay, we've noticed that people are quite Anthobic, yeah, I thought they are you know, because I started using this really cool app lately called rep chat Okay, which gives you a beat and you just freestyle rep and I just it's the most amazing thing ever I just I love it and now but the audio file is saved within this app So I keep telling people go listen to my reps and they like no, we don't want to download another app Yeah, they won't they won't download another app to you to hear me rep and I'm just like this is yeah People have been inundated with digital clutter and I can actually I think it gives people glossophobia. Yeah anxiety So yeah and takes data takes time then it's also takes space on your phone people always running out of space And you're earlier to your point there are four million apps on the app store Yeah, that's just the iOS app. So So yeah, people are a little bit over apps, okay, so we decided to use WhatsApp just because everyone's there it's super convenient It's easier than thinking we send you a rad cost on a Thursday morning and then you can just press play and listen to a Bit of bit of news a bit of inspiration a bit of comedy It's basically like trying to be your audio companion that keeps you inspired motivated informed laughing Have you guys ever seen an app called never think? No, but it doesn't sound like a good idea. So well, this is this is so when I think of red cross the app I think that's Similar most similar to it is this app called never think and what it is It's basically YouTube but without you thinking about what video to click So I think it's some kids in Scandinavia who've made this app and all they do all days They just watch YouTube videos and they categorize them as oh either it's meme other is millennial others are other It's you know, WTF and they put it all these ones and you're joking expect Yes fashion this that and then all you do is you click on a topic and then they just keep playing clips Playlist orization yes video content on curated topics on curated topics. That's incredibly analogous to what we're doing Yes, and and I kind of think it's working so well, but what does that call never think? So the whole idea is that you never have to think about what to watch But I'm thinking it could be quite a cool thing with audio Like they say specifically a podcast because so I'm trying to get into the pop like listening to pop You can see I'm trying to start my own podcast because I don't think I can compete on on a visual scale You know these guys have got much better video editors than my ability And I spoke to some of my my subscribers and they said they listen to my videos in the car So they they don't even looking at the visuals anyway, so I thought let me try this this podcast game Because I think sound is easier to compete than sound and visuals But you're looking at that that never think I wish they would be something like that for podcasts because I'm going to podcast and Let's say my topics are like our religion philosophy finance Some of them are really bad and others of them are that you're only like getting to the meat of it like ten minutes in Yeah, and they're an hour long and they're an hour long So imagine having something where you I don't imagine having people listen to all these podcasts It takes snippets of like just the best part like a five minute I imagine some kid listen to this podcast and they're like only Josh's part You know and that was like the only good part of this whole thing Let's have a little scissor-cut that and put it put it in some way or if it is a really amazing say one hour podcast Yeah, I tell you but we don't want no one wants to listen to an hour-long podcast I mean 45 minutes and you realize that this was crap. This was crap Yeah, because I think that's what people it's people and this is my opinion is people have got money They've got money to spend but they don't have time time is still that's what you're competing now It's and people I don't I think you must think that people who value their time a lot are more prepared to pay it because there's that Thinking process that paid content is gonna give me something better. It's gonna save me some time But where where do you guys see and this is the actually me the businessman in me coming up saying like if I wasn't Investing rate cost where is your guys revenue potential streams because I'm I've been listening to a cost. I absolutely love it I'm gonna recommend everyone who's listening to this to to definitely sign up. There'll be some links in the description below But how do you guys make make money from it? Are you gonna go like traditional ad way is it gonna be a paid subscription? I don't know who wants to take this question, but yeah, how are you guys gonna do it? I'll try be super quick so Dom doesn't roll his eyes, but I have very strong opinions on on paying for for value in the world Because yeah, I really hope and our dream is that one day Radcast will be so high quality that Some users will be willing to pay for our content via subscription reasonable subscription in the same style as Spotify and We'll kind of run the same model. So the free version will be We'll have ads in it, but they will never ever ever be annoying ads like buy this out insurance product When it's not relevant to the target market, it'll be like this demographic of users are Their students so they're interested in buying second-hand textbooks. They're interested in going to rock in the daisies They're interested in drink specials. So we're exposing to those kind of adverts because it's useful to them if they want to take people up on it and it's useful to the Advertisers trying to get exposure. So that'll be the ad model and then you're I would like us to have a Subscription model for people who want the premium version which are given premium features and such work We also are playing with another model another one I would like to experiment with is a B2B play where we go to say a company like Alan Gray and say cool You've got a thousand employees. This is the number of man hours. They are spending in the car Or be thousands and thousands of cumulative hours. What are they? Listening to during that time. It's either their own music. So they're learning nothing or it's the radio and they're learning nothing Or it's my podcast and they're learning something. Yeah, we can create Amazing content for them like specific to financial guys You need to know what's happening in the political and economic world Also add in some motivation and some life coaching and just things that they actually want so that their workforce Arrives to work being informed and inspired in a better mood than listening to shitty adverts on the radio Do you know why that is such a good idea because I live in the city and up very close to the highway And I just I look outside every time I'm like, maybe I should have a 95 job I look out the window at like around five and I just see the traffic and it's just it just looks miserable And I'm like, that's why I'm not doing the 95, you know, there's one of the big perks of being an entrepreneur You don't have to be stuck in traffic like that. I don't know if you guys have traffic, but Yeah, you've got a captive audience there and that's why radio stations are terrible, but people are still listening to them because We could do on a whole nother half an hour and why radio has been involved and needs to but I imagine that was their favorite time of the day Because though the quality of the content was so interesting and so inspiring so funny Like we've had love sitting in the traffic because they're just they epic and you could mix music in you can mix all These things that are personalized for you But hold on hold on hold on the little actually in me is it's got a little bit of a Problem here. How do you get? Because in South Africa, we don't have Wi-Fi everywhere. People have to use mobile data. Mobile data is quite expensive How would people get like would they download at first at home and then listen to it in the car? So it wouldn't be like a live stream that eats up their data No, you would have to be downloaded at home people already doing that job And I can't say the whole traffic thing with Dom saying I can imagine it was people's favorite time We've had people tell us that they drive around the block when they get to work so that their ad cost finishes playing through Okay, those kind of stories that create the highs we spoke about earlier And second daughter will fall eventually so like that company up rain is gonna try and push the envelope There's the envelope there Also Michael Jordan who's doing that was it your dawn Michael Jordan? Can I just say like I put a this ago in a little bit of topic, but I made this this comment Lost just like September just saying guys. What don't you like about banks? Because I was flirting with the idea of starting that now to your users What don't you like about radio? See what comes through in the comments Yeah guys in the comments put down what you what you don't like about radio because yeah that That story then came up on radio that Michael Jordan was starting a bank And people were like well hold on but Michael Jordan put a comment on facebook about banking Maybe it's him and I had people send me messages like are you starting a bank? And I was like a wish I wish I was starting a bank, but you're right So he's starting bank zero and he's starting rain, which is a very cheap data service Yes, and that's the thing is he's also got that that entrepreneurial spirit, which I think is so cool because Too many other times people who study finance study accounting study actual science We get so comfortable in our boring office job And the end goal is to Not put on too much pressure on ourselves because we're going to get our salary at the end of the month Whether or not we introduce a new cool idea, but when you become an entrepreneur You know your money at the end of the month isn't guaranteed you have to come up with something cool and interesting So no, I really I really like that Michael Jordan guy. I did send him a tweet once and he didn't reply So they were they were saying I thought we would have had like a bond, you know I think we do need to say like there's nothing wrong with having a normal job as well It's a pretty bad rap in this podcast like the it's terrible. There's nothing wrong with it In many cases as long as as long as you're doing it for the right reasons Yeah, I'm enjoying what you're doing. Yeah, and then it's cool I will say one thing is I think it's people's inertia that they're in working for corporates And they're too scared to Leave it Because they don't spend enough time Picturing what is the worst case scenario? Yeah, so tim ferris advocates for this that you should In detail picture What is the worst thing that could happen if you were to say leave your job and start your own business or start up And picture okay cool in five years time if it completely fails What will my life look like and the truth is normally you can find another Stable job after that. So the worst case scenario isn't actually that bad Okay, well, I want to maybe just end off with one last big question Okay And that is what is your guys vision for rad costs like let's say five years from now Do you expect to have like a whole team of people working for you? Rad cost is like the number one thing to listen to what what is what is the vision? Let's end off on a on a high Firstly never working for you working with you looking with you I like that I like and straight away. I like that because yeah I hear a lot of like that's why you say oh people in the corporate jobs getting a bad rap So many times I talk to my friends and they're bitching and moaning about their managers because the manager has got a little bit of power And that relationship dynamic different generations. It just that's not cool Really frustrated. So I like that. I like that not working for you. They're going to be working with you. Okay, I like that Um, but talk to me about What what is your your reach that you want? Do you want to be global? Do you want to just be South African? What what is the big vision? Me I think this is tailored for you. Um No, I genuinely think you should take it Don has an amazing way of putting our long-term vision. That's why that's why I'm opting out of this question Basically, I think that from the time someone wakes up to arriving at work They should be accompanied by an awesome audio experience And we would love to be the company that delivers that Combining your favorite music your favorite topics interests Making you laugh making you cry making you feel moved Um, and so the vision is pretty big Obviously, it'll be really tough because there's going to be other companies. You're going to try this Um, maybe Spotify will get it right. Maybe another company will but Hopefully we do in South Africa and hopefully expand. Um, South Africa is not a huge market. So we'd love to go bigger But yeah, we're starting starting small Okay, fantastic I guess my input would be this um and a lot of people have asked me like how you feeling about radcast and I'm not sure whether domini will be able to execute from what he just said But I have no doubt in my mind that this concept of the next evolution of radio Where it's it has a feedback loop and it's personalized tailored to you and incredibly incredibly high quality Will be done. It absolutely will be done by someone Um, so we'll we'll see in the future what happens. I mean domini don't have any kind of uh Desires to be huge and in the front line media like we would actually quite love to be acquired by a Spotify So that people don't have to download another app and this radcast experience is in the spotify ecosystem All iTunes whatever it is, but y'all we just want Everything he said uh in in people's daily experience because we feel there really is a space for audio to add incredible value to people's lives Making them feel more inspired loved knowledgeable All of that just feel more positive about their lives and podcasts are amazing the incredible podcasts But as you said they're just really hard to find so someone could just guide you through that and help you Make it easier for you to find this stuff. So I do know of my viewers only 20 percent I should think it's less than 20 percent now stuff 15 percent are from South Africa If my subscribers who are mainly in America and India could they still be part of radcast and join through whatsapp and be part of this Yeah, we've already got users in australia, london america all over so okay cool Yeah, I would encourage them to if they have whatsapp then they 100 can be in and just tailor their adcast So probably opt out of local news and use that specific stuff like the sport news and then from there y'all Inspiration is my favorite part. I love I love the the bride bulletin But maybe someone from america wouldn't What are they talking about? Not americans love cricket and rugby Okay, awesome. I think y'all let's let's end it off there. Um, I just want to say thank you so much for Y'all letting me talk to you guys and also letting me use your studio I mean, we've got some egg boxes. We've even got like a post of elinja generous in here A much more fancier mic than I have Which is making me very jealous, but y'all thank you guys so much and um, hopefully Yeah, we'll be doing more stuff together in the future Cool. Thanks for having us mj sharp mj Peace love and avo. Yeah like subscribe follow jump up and down through all of that cool stuff. Thanks guys. Cheers Another podcast box the best. No, thanks guys