 Hey friends, this is Dan Stephanie Burke you're watching behind the scenes divine intimacy radio and we're about ready to start the second show in a series on a new book that every human alive who's married or is going to get married should should own or is working with people who were in either of those states priests yeah everyone if you have a pulse and you're dealing with marriage and I'm not kidding and I'm not being hyperbolic and I'm not just trying to sell a book so in the beginning let's let's go ahead and can you do me a favor would you mind keeping the I know the title is easy to remember but would it be possible to keep that up or is that going to bug you well you know I don't want to mess you up for the show but but my mind keeps blanking on that yeah God's plan for your marriage and exploration of holy matrimony okay so are you ready to roll do we need to do I guess we did the promo stuff on EWTN so oh you know what that's perfect thank you that's easier in the subtitle very good Sophia Institute Sophia what's the what's their official I know I should know all this is it okay great God is love okay yeah I finished writing that out and we'll go I know we're live they can handle it they're logging in takes a minute they're amused by our chaos it is amusing to watch people fumble and stumble around on live stream that's why people do like like behind the scenes and you'll notice from behind the scenes that we have one mic for two people which is interesting but at least it keeps stepping I from talking over each other okay and your markets that go this is divine intimate nope that's not right stop reset and your markets that go this is Dan and Stephanie Burke welcome to divine intimacy radio your radio haven't abreast your hermitage of the heart your monastery of the mind where we lift our hearts and minds to heaven to draw on the wisdom of the saints the teaching the long-standing teaching and tradition of the church to help us understand how to navigate this challenging life and God be praised we're living in some of the most difficult times in in the church at least in recent history last few hundred years anyway but I think what's beautiful about these kinds of times is that with the challenges God always equips his people to face those challenges always equips those people to face those challenges and it's the way he equips them is not always the same as he's always done and this is certainly the case with marriage and the family which is of course in ruins in our culture in our time but God be praised the Lord has given a very special gift to Father Robert Altier and allowed him to be the conduit and I and I mean the words I'm using are very specific and purposeful allowed him to be the conduit of what I believe is divine inspiration for this book and I and I am not saying that in a hyperbolic fashion or or you know as a turn of phrase I do believe that the Lord has allowed Father Altier to be a conduit of divinely inspired content for this book and you know we talked about it in the last show which you can find out you'll find all these shows out at spiritualdirection.com that Cardinal Burke vetted the book in detail because of this claim of this of the way the book came about and so one of the one of the best theologians best minds in the church read it reviewed it and endorsed it glowingly and so we're very comfortable and we already were but even before that but even more so comfortable to say this is a divine gift for men and women who are heading into marriage men and women who are struggling with the broken marriage men and women who are looking to understand how do I live out this thing that I deeply desire to be glorious holy good beautiful true but have no experience of that or only glimpses of it God has given us this great gift in this time to help us to understand that reality so welcome to the show father Altier well thank you Dan Stephanie great to be here and and I just every echo your your sentiments I point out to people this is our ladies book but she had to have somebody to write it obviously she could have done whatever she wanted and so I always use the analogy when our Lord rode into Jerusalem on the donkey if the donkey would have thought that the Hosanas and the palm branches being laid on the road were for him pretty stupid and so I'm not stupid enough to think that just because my name is the one on the book that it's it's mine it's not it's our ladies book and and so I truly believe myself that this is heaven's intervention initial intervention in in this work of trying to not trying but because heaven doesn't have to try but of healing marriages of healing human beings and and that's that's what this is all about and so the credit goes to heaven I'm just as you said the instrument that was chosen to do this for whatever reason because he couldn't find anyone worse is really what it comes down to well we think you're wonderful so that's that's our two cents but father go back to the main point in the first chapter in the beginning that you want to make sure that people hear about just how important who we are is our nature so let's go let's start there so just a reminder that you know in the first chapter we talk about creation of Adam and Eve we look at both the first and second chapters and we also look at what happened to them in the fall and and so so God created us in his own image and likeness that is the immense dignity that every single person on the face of the earth has later in the book it gets to the point of being baptized and what happens with that but this point of being made in the image and likeness of God is true for every single person on the face of the earth baptized or not and what happened with Adam and Eve when they fell they disobeyed God it messed up everything however it did not change their nature and that's the piece that people absolutely must understand our society has been just imbued with this idea that we are worthless that that we are objects that we are nothing and and God looks at it exactly the opposite of that and the only well not the only way but the best way that I've found to be able to point this out to people is that when Satan fell his nature did not change his will is 100% again against God that has been completely changed in his will but his nature is still the way God created it he's still an angel he's the fallen angel now but he still has an angelic nature that did not change so if Satan's nature didn't change when he fell certainly human nature did not change when Adam and Eve fell and so we are born with original sin we have our own sins we have the darkening of the mind and the weakening of the will we don't have the integrity that Adam and Eve had all those things that we can look at but that does not change the reality of who we are we are still made in the image and likeness of God and the reality when God looked at his creation after he created humanity he saw that it was very good that is the reality of human nature so good in fact that Jesus who is God took our nature to himself and that was not anything that violated him and so obviously he could not take on a nature that was corrupted that was no good that was bad he took our human nature to himself and and so again another point of proof if you want to look at it that way of just how good God sees us so dignity still intact sinful broken you know whatever it is that we are let's move into the second chapter and talk about God is love and what does that mean what is love and what does it mean in our relationships like true love because obviously society and culture have totally redefined love to mean what I like essentially what I what I like or what I want but that's not what authentic love is no there there are there are differing kinds of love in fact the Greeks have four different words for love in English we have one and and so we would have to put adjectives in front of it to be able to describe what kind of love we're talking about but the kind of love for which we are created and the kind of love for married people that actually St. Paul talks about and our Lord talks about is the Greek word agape which is the highest form of love the way that God loves us so if we look at it that way we're not talking about oh I love ice cream cones or I love puppies or whatever and it certainly is not you know in what our society has done when it talks about making love which is meaning simply something that is sexual but it's talking about people who aren't married who it's not an act of love it's a sinful act at that point and it's exactly the opposite of love and and so again the confusion then so your question is is right on target and and so my favorite definition of love is doing always what's best for the other it is self less so selfishness is the opposite of love and so that the goal of our Christian life is to become self less to truly love to be what we were created to be and we are made in the image and likeness of God St. John says it is simply as can possibly be in one of the seventh verse of the fourth chapter the first letter of St. John he says God is love period nothing else God is love and you are made in the image and likeness of God that means you are made to love you are made to be loved and you are made ultimately to be transformed into love so when you talk about the spiritual life and the growth in the spiritual life and and all that that happens you know we have in St. Teresa we get the point of the the simple union and the conforming union and the transforming union the soul is transformed it becomes love and and so that's that's what what this is about that again is what married life is about it is two people who make a vow to love one another and that doesn't mean have happy feelings about one another that certainly doesn't mean gush which is what a lot of people in our society you know well that's not what love is you know that's an emotion love is a virtue not an emotion emotions change but virtues remain the same and we see that so clearly in in our blessed lord you know he did nothing but love that's all that he did and and so look at as he's being rejected look at him as he's carrying the cross look at him as he's being crucified he continued to love so obviously he wasn't feeling good the emotions weren't really high obviously at that point and yet he continued to forgive he continued to seek only the good of the other and and and gave himself up for us and and so that's the kind of love that married people are called to kind of love every human person is called to but in marriage especially and when i when i look at at the fact that that these couples make a vow to love one another i maintain married people should be the experts in love that's what you vowed to do and and so so in that sense married people should be showing to the rest of the world what this love is and ultimately what we're called to in heaven it's a pre it's a prefiguration of heaven it's a preparation for heaven and so so that's that's what we want to want to strive for so we look at it say god is love and god made us in his image and likeness therefore we are made to love we are made to be loved absolutely you know and and when we talk about that we can carry this into the second segment is society tells us that you know love is a feeling and it's about me you know my opinions my thoughts my feelings what makes me happy and this perfect selflessness flips that completely on its head and true love god the father's love wants to restore he wants to draw in to himself rebuild build up nurture cherish and then send forth in freedom right and that's what's so beautiful about love his love true love is that as married couples we want to gather one another together restore build up help nourish cherish so that they understand their dignity and their worth and they can go free in freedom to be who they're called to be so when we get back from the break let's continue this and then move into our next chapter of what god has joined in your market set go welcome back to divine intimacy radio your radio haven of rest this is danis effing burke we're here with father robert altier with a beautiful new book on marriage god's plan for your marriage an exploration of holy matrimony from genesis to the wedding feast of the lamb of course put together by sophia's to press so you can get it out there go ahead go order it order it for yourself if you're a therapist bob dr bob chute says if you're a therapist or if you help people in marriage prep or if you're involved in anything related to marriage you should get it we and i think he thinks and we think anyone who's married considering being married trying to recover a broken marriage this book will give you hope and wisdom and direction and guidance into the i think the joy and and the uh i don't know joyful purification that god has for us all in marriage so the the next chapter chapter three what god has joined talks about the union of persons but there's a difference between the union of persons with respect to natural union or sacramental union and i think you've i think i've heard you said this chapter if if there's any that you really want to pay attention to not that you should ignore anything else it's what what what the lords revealed here the the point in in this chapter as i would look at it when i sent this to a couple of theologians and asked them to look at it i said chapter three is the make it or break it one you know so it it'll talk about you know reasons why a person can't be married and look at some of the canonical things and so on but then it gets to really the heart and the main point in this book and that is what has god joined that is the real question uh and if you go back to genesis it says that that that the man shall leave his his mother and father and join himself to his wife and the two become one flesh well jesus brings that up also in saint of matthew and saint marx gospel and and talks about that but then he adds a little phrase and that is what god has joined let no man put us under that is the only place in the entire bible that phrase comes up and so it is something so important that jesus himself put that there to say something about marriage and the question is what has god joined and and so so we look at that beginning with the question of okay if the two become one flesh has god joined the bodies and to that i would say no because saint paul talks about the fact that if a man has relations with a prostitute he becomes one flesh with her obviously god didn't join the bodies of those two and and so even in marriage when we look at it if a couple has maintained their chastity prior to being married uh they they you know it's in other words it's not a pre-consumated reality here um but rather the marriage takes place and immediately after the couple makes their vows the priest or the deacon the bishop whoever it is that's witnessing the marriage says what god has joined that no man put us under now at that point the marriage has not been consummated the two are not one flesh yet but yet we've already said what god has joined let no man put us under so what did god join and this again is the primary point in my mind in this book and that is god joined the two souls together it is a spiritual union when we look at the other six sacraments it's very clear that something happens to the soul and we need to be very clear every single person that I asked this question of before I wrote this book of what what does you know what what happens when a couple gets married every person talked about the graces that you get it's like yeah but you get grace when you go to confession you get grace when you're baptized you get grace when you're confirmed you get grace when you're ordained and so on I said but something else happens to the soul I said there's this indelible mark that happens in baptism and in in conformation and in in ordination there is the removal of sin from the soul in you know so it's not just grace that's given but there's actually something that happens to the soul and yet when it comes to marriage nothing happens to the soul it's just this grace that you get that affects your soul it's like no there's got to be something else you know why would god give us this as a sacrament if it's just that he's going to give grace I mean you get grace if you pray a rosary you know and and so so why did he make this a sacrament and it has to have something to do specifically with the soul and what happens to the soul and and so so the thesis in this book is that the two souls are united and it is I don't try to explain what kind of union it is I will let the theologians argue about that I simply say it's an accidental union to simply say it's not a substantial union the trinity has a substantial union the two natures of Jesus are substantially united but our union with God is an accidental one even in heaven it will be an accidental one which simply means we don't become God we remain who we are we're united with him the same is true in marriage the two become one and yet at the same time you still remain distinct individuals separate and and so so there is a real union that happens is the point that i'm trying to make in this book and and that union is a real spiritual union it is essentially a miracle that that that god works and and it builds upon the point of of the love it's you know only god can unite only god created your souls he created the two people to be totally separate unique individuals only god can recreate them then and and make them into one and and that's that's the union that that takes place and that's the most important piece in the book because then everything else follows upon that if that's true then the other things follow and that was the point that i wanted the theologians to look at that was price particularly the point i was concerned about with cardinal Burke looking at to make sure that that this is something that would be in line with the teaching of the church and and because everything else that would follow obviously would be false if that piece isn't correct and that piece was was accepted by the theologians and and obviously to buy the cardinal and so so for me i am totally at peace being able to present that to people and say here's what god does to your soul at the moment that you get married well you know it's incredible to think about that reality and i i think those that are in very healthy beautiful marriages which by god's grace the lords that blessed me with now can understand that you know there are times when i don't know where i end and dan begins you know and and i've noted because we travel a lot together but occasionally he'll travel without me or i'll go see family if we have a family event and he's busy and i need to run do something when we're a part it doesn't feel right there's something missing our rhythm of life our our our unity our prayer is affected everything's affected and and it doesn't make that reality less real it's just that we know the absence of the other and and i immediately was drawn to you know there's a number of widows that i love and walk through with direction and the pain of the separation whether it was a perfect marriage or not whether there were difficulties or not that's just such a painful reality because a part of you has been ripped off you know it's it's been ripped apart and it's missing so what a beautiful thing so let's carry this into this new creation the next chapter and how and how do we see that well so it first starts with that that point i was making it's it's essentially a recreation when god unites the two they become one so there is now a new creation that was not there the two people were both there but the marriage was not there and so so there was something if you will that was missing in creation that is now fulfilled and that also is the point then for the two persons when you look at it and you can say yes obviously you you recognize the the separation and and you feel that at the same time there is that radical spiritual union i mean if if your husband was an astronaut and went to the moon you're thousands of miles apart and yet your souls are still united and so it has nothing to do with the the physical proximity in that way obviously that makes a huge difference but the union is still there and and so in this new creation then we have to understand what our lord does not say or what st paul does not say because he says you have become a new creation in christ he does not say you have been restored in other words this is something entirely new what adam and eve had in the garden now god has done something even greater and so what they had was beautiful but that wasn't restored to us it's a new creation it's something even greater and so again everything in the way that the logic of this this book is set out it builds upon one another we are made with this dignity we are we give one another a couple gives one themselves to one another as a gift in their marriage it is a gift of love and it is only that which will fulfill them you know in our society we look for all this fulfillment if i can just get more pleasure if i can have more material things if i can have this and that then i'll be fulfilled well nothing ever fulfills even getting married and using the other person for your own selfish purposes you're never going to be fulfilled it's only in that love and so that love then is what brings about the union and that is what has lived in that new creation it's a new creation in christ and and so in that we then also recognize that marriage when you look at st paul you know he there's just that that passage that people hate it's actually one of the most beautiful passages in scripture but you know wives be submissive to your husband's husbands love your wives and that that whole passage and people totally misunderstand it and they get angry about it or they sit at church and when they hear that the wives elbow their husbands when it says you know husbands love your wife and the husband elbows his wife when say when when it says be submissive to your husband that's it's exactly backwards of what st paul is getting at but objectively speaking what st paul is laying out for us is the way to overcome the effects of original sin so original sin affected each one of us but in particular it affected marriage because it turned the marriage upside down again you look specifically at the punishment to eve it's it's because the women are relational this was the punishment to eve the relationship was flipped and now your desire will be for your husband well it was supposed to be the other way around and and so so the point of truly loving one another because their fault was that they became selfish and so this is how we can turn the effect of original sin and get back to the way it was supposed to be flip it on its head and and and do even better and greater things than we could have before absolutely and with our lady we can stomp on its head amen oh happy fault i guess right so father alt here an amazing book god's plan for your marriage in exploration of holy matrimony from genesis to the wedding feast of the lamb sofia institute press make sure you pick that up and for those who were popping in on the middle of this series you can find the first show this is the second of the series find the first show out at spiritualdirection.com and then the subsequent shows we're going to do another show and continue talking about the book this will change your your life and your marriage and it'll help you launch out on a new marriage and with a foundation that that is extraordinary so get the book and you'll be blessed until next time may the god of peace make you perfect and holiness may he preserve you whole and entire spirit soul and body irreproachable at the coming of our lord jesus christ amen i think we just keep rolling