 What happened to Natalie Holloway, the Alabama teenager who disappeared during a school trip to Aruba in 2005? From the beginning, a young man named Yoran Vandersloot was the prime suspect in her disappearance. Well, he finally admitted he killed her. So what happens? We drove to that beach there. We got out and I told Deepak, I'd call him later to come pick me up. Because I was planning on walking from that piece of the beach back to her hotel. And that maybe on the beach walk there something would happen between us. We walked out on the beach. How was she walking? Did she still seem okay to you? Yeah, she seemed okay. Were there other people on the beach? Yes, there were. There were a lot of couples on the beach. We walked first, I took off my shoes because I got sand in them. We walked right up to the water and first we sat down there a while talking and kissing and then I asked her if she wanted to go back to her hotel. She said no, she wanted to walk the other way. So towards the north side of the island. And during that walk there was one other couple that walked by. And so we walked a while till we got about right to the fisherman's hut. And we sat down again in the sand. And we kissed, we made out. And yeah. So I'm gonna take the approach in this one to treat this guy like somebody I have to interrogate and figure out where I'd focus. And when we talk about interrogation, a lot of interrogation time is spent on micro interview. Meaning I look for a baseline and see a blip. I forget about everything except the blip. I open, I go to interview until I see another blip and repeat, repeat, repeat until I get to the problem. We don't see Chris do that here. Chris Cuomo do that here. Because when he says the uh, that beach. To the, to that beach there. He closes his eyes and eye blocks. There may be nothing there, but if you leave that unturned, you'll never know. So I'd say, hold on a second. That beach there, what? Let's follow through and understand why he's being nondescript here when he was very descriptive in the last video. Also followed by an apprehensive breath because he pulls in after he says it. Now I may be nothing, but it may also mean something important. Which beach? Where? Which strip of beach? There's also a pregnant pause, very pregnant at that piece dot, dot, dot, dot of the beach. Because I was planning on walking from that piece of the beach. Why? And he shifts his head position. Why? I want to know, I want to know what do you mean by that piece of the beach? Because there could be something else. He was going down the wrong path and use the wrong word and that creates an anchor that you can come back to later. And then there's classic time hiding here. And uh. And uh. That doesn't mean anything happened, but if you leave that gap, you have a problem. You sat down there a while talking and kissing and. Dot, dot, dot. There's a pause again. Cadence shift means something. Then I asked if she wanted to go back to the hotel. Another time hide. We kissed and made out there's a flurry of blinks. And then yeah. He throws his facts away at the end. This is going to be one of the most important of all these videos to me. I'm going to say number two is my first marker that I would use to go into an interrogation. To me, everything's fine until it gets to that part about one of the couple that walked by. During that walk, there wasn't one other couple that walked by. Because we hear and so. And so. This is new. There are lots of bands. So he's creating time and this might be, I got the feeling when I first saw this, this is probably where things really happened right there. Where things might have gone sideways for him. Or the, if he did. Yeah, I'm pretty, if he did kill her, I'd say that's right in that area there, right in that timeframe there. His illustrating happens very low. In fact, it happens, it's all on the wrist and his arm doesn't even leave the chair. He's just giving it one of these numbers as he's talking. And I think what we're seeing, but the way he sounds and the way his sentence structure is and these long pauses in there, I know he's, what is it, he's Dutch. Is that right? Yeah, so he's speaking English, but he's Dutch. So that could play into a little bit there. But it sounds like he's walking on eggshells. We walked first, I took off my shoes because I got sand in them. We walked right up to the water. So he's paying attention to everything he says, not just word for word pronunciation, those kind of things. I mean, he's paying attention to what he's saying as a whole because he knows he has to be careful in here. Because right now he thinks everything's fine. He's gotten away with it. So all he has to do is just make sure he keeps walking down that little, that walking the tight rope the way he should be walking it. So after he talks about making out with her, he's get, we see that heavy eye flutter. And then he very quickly says, and yeah, real quick like that. And, yeah. That lets us know there's an issue there. So I think something must have happened in this little section here, this question, down at the beach. I think that might be where things start happening. She asked to go back to her hotel, but I was just trying to get dropped off a little bit further away from her hotel. So we could walk back to her hotel and I might still get a chance to be with her. I'm actually with Natalie walking along the beach. I find a space before we get to the Marriott Hotel, where I lay her down. We lay down together in the sand and we start kissing each other. I get her to kiss me again. We start kissing each other. And I start fielding her up again and she tells me no. She tells me she doesn't want me to field her up. I insist, I keep fielding her up either way. And she knees me, she ends up kneeing me in the crotch. When she knees me in the crotch, I get up on the beach and I kick her extremely hard in the face. Yeah, she's laying down unconscious, possibly even dead, but definitely unconscious. And I see right next to her, there's a huge cinder block laying on the beach. I see a huge cinder block laying on the beach. I take this and I smash her head in with it completely. Her face basically collapses in. Even though it's dark, I can see her face is collapsed in. She said she wanted to walk the other way. So we've got somebody here who wants to go 180 degrees in the opposite direction to the way that she should be going. And there is a micro gesture of approval that he gives on that tiny, tiny little eyebrow race. But don't take a look at it because it is micro small, but because it is so different from what his eyebrows are normally doing, you can see it. So he's looking for approval on this 180 degrees going in the opposite direction that she should because clearly it's odd, it's bizarre, just like the idea that she might be claiming that she is Hitler's niece. She told me her mom was Hitler's sister. You got Hitler's niece going 180 degrees in the opposite direction to what she should be. Of course, you're gonna want approval on that story because clearly it's a little bit bizarre. There's one thing that I continuously teach when it comes to reading behavior, look for what's missing, then look for what's different. So what's different, what's missing, I'll probably do it in that order. The one statement that's vastly different from all the others here is when he's detailing their walk over to the fisherman's huts. And when he says, we kissed, we made out and. Yeah. There's an eye flutter and there's a loss of fluency, which is when we struggled to produce some accurate words or speech. And these are occurring at the moment, we're seeing the sharp increase in self-regulation. He's locked himself down and there's information missing. And the eye flutter is something we see when somebody's computer processor or what we would call cognitive load increases to some high level and we're seeing this when we're processing lots of information in our heads, but sometimes you'll see it in response to someone trying to clear disturbing thoughts or memories that are coming up at that precise moment as they're telling the story. This is a red flag here because it meets the criteria for a red flag according to me, which means there's a higher potential for it to be deceptive. So there are five C's I'm gonna teach you right now. This is the time to pull out your pen and I'm gonna show you how to do it. Now this is the time to pull out your pen to determine if something is a red flag or not in my book. And they're listed here and not in order of priority. I'll give them in order of priority a little bit later and you'll see why. So change checklist, which are just these common behaviors associated with deception or stress, context, the behavior occurs in response to some stimulus, cluster and it occurred in a group of behaviors that also indicate stress. So those are four of the five C's and the next video I'll give you number five. The eye witness is you. So what happens? We drove to that beach there. We got out and I told Deepak I'd call him later to come pick me up because I was planning on walking from that piece of the beach back to her hotel and that maybe on the beach walk there something would happen between us. We walked out on the beach. How is she walking? Does she still seem okay to you? Yeah, she seemed okay. Were there other people on the beach? Yes, there were. There were a lot of couples on the beach. We walked first, I took off my shoes because I got sand in them. We walked right up to the water and first we sat down there a while talking and kissing and then I asked her if she wanted to go back to her hotel. She said no, she wanted to walk the other way. So towards the north side of the island and during that walk there was one other couple that walked by and so we walked a while till we got about right to the fisherman's hut and we sat down again in the sand and we kissed, we made out and yeah. Joran says at about 2.30 a.m. he calls his friend Deepak for a ride home and while waiting he says he tries one last time to get Natalie to go. I tried to convince her to go back to her hotel. I even jokingly picked her up in my arms to try and take her to the hotel and she said just put me down. Do you remember the last time you saw her? Yeah, the last time I saw her was when I told her I was gonna go to Deepak's car. And how was Natalie? And she was sitting on the sand by the ocean. Did it seem like a wrong thing to do leaving a girl on the beach like that? At that moment in time for me it wasn't the wrong thing but it's definitely the wrong thing to do. I mean it's not something a real man would do. It's not normal, it's not right at all. But you did it? Yeah. Why? Yeah, because at that moment I wanted to go home. I wanted to go to school the next day. Right at the part where we were talking about the last time I saw her and going to Deepak's car I think was his name there's some immediate mouth closure only on this point here and this is more self-containment. It's interesting the memory here is about telling her a narration of action instead of saying goodbye or hugging her. Yeah, the last time I saw her was when I told her I was gonna go to Deepak's car. That was very interesting to me. There's two big things with this I don't think this is the last time he saw her based on this at all. And Cuomo asked how was Natalie? And then he describes her, she was sitting. And she was sitting on the sand by the ocean. Why would she not be standing as they were saying goodbye? She's just sitting on the beach looking out and he's walking away. I think that's pretty unusual. I wouldn't say that there's a deception cue there. There's one very interesting thing I want you to listen to when this clip comes back on. He says she was sitting in the sand and then immediately corrects his words to use the word on the sand. She was sitting on the sand by the ocean. And if I was an investigator here, that might give me a hint at a potential place I might start looking for a body. These tiny little things in language come up all the time in cases that we look at. And this is a great example to train your ears to listen to this kind of thing. I think the volume changed from his first answer. Yeah, the last time I saw her was when I told her I was gonna go to Deepak's car. To the way he's answering this one. And she was sitting on the sand by the ocean. Is dramatic, I think it's huge. And right here is where I put all my chips on this being deceptive. I think every little thing in my brain when I've said, here it is, this guy's full of it, man. Nobody, nobody, a guy, a boy, a man would leave a woman on the beach in the middle of the night. Nobody, or one of their buddies. You wouldn't just leave even some guy you knew out there in Aruba. You wouldn't do that. Not the Aruba's bad or anything, but a beach out there. No, you wouldn't do that. If you've been drinking and you're drunk, they could fall in the waters, all kinds of things like that. And you would never do that. That's when I started making, that's when I made my mind about the sky that he would do that. We're dealing with somebody who's not a very good person who wasn't raised right, I would say. And I'll get a lot of gut for that, but I don't care. That's what I think about that. So when you're lying about something, you're walking this tightrope and you try to stay balanced. And you watch the rope and you watch your steps and you completely focus on the direction you're going in. And there's that balance between where you lose control and you keep control. And when you lose control, your brain starts freaking out and your arms start going back and forth and you start going back and forth. Think that's what we're seeing here. He's trying to walk that tightrope, but it's not working for him. I think he loses balance a little bit. So he starts admitting that he's leaving here there. I mean, this is where he's telling us what happened basically, except he's omitting the part where if something happened to her, if he did something, that's where he did it. That's why things changed in here. That's why it looks so weird and sounds so odd as he's talking about that. He's reliving that scene in his head because he knows what happened. I'm under the impression. We don't know for sure yet, but from what I've seen so far and listened to and watching this, I'm under the impression that's a lot of deception going on here. Your brain is designed to read exactly what we're talking about. You may not have the words for it, but you're suspicious of people for a reason. And there's a reason there's a word in our vocabulary. Is what I think when I see this guy. Can I say for a fact he's lying? No, but let me give you a list of things that just ping my BS meter right off. There's an awful lot of change in cadence as he says, go back to her hotel. Listen to that deviation in cadence. I tried to convince her to go back to her hotel. Why? Is that so hard to say? Pretty simple words, but when our brain is doing Scott your point when we're walking that fine line, our brain is trying to be cautious. Do I fall off left or fall off right? There's not much brow involvement in this kid in anything we've seen. Now I think he's 17 here, but when he says I'm going back to Deepak's car, we see brow rise. That's a request for approval. People do it. It doesn't mean they're lying, but it means they need approval on that moment. Why would he need approval on this moment? When he hasn't yet, up to now, I went back to Deepak's car. Maybe nothing. Maybe something there. And then that uncharacteristic for him, his mouth hangs open when he's thinking. If you watch him, he just sits there with his jaw slack, except for a couple of cases and they both occur in this video. When he's asked about going back to Deepak's car, he does that, he does it really quick right after lip compression or closed lips. To your point, Chase, and he does exactly the same thing when he's asked about the last thing that he said to Natalie or the last thing that happened with Natalie. Here's the other one. When he's asked how Natalie was, Scott, how are you? Good. You're not sitting, are you? You wouldn't say sitting in the sand. And how was Natalie? And she was sitting on the sand by the ocean. That's not how people answer the question, how is someone? When he says, how is she? He gives her disposition, she was in on the sand, is like you said to start with Chase, but he gives her disposition about nothing about condition. Well, she was drunk or she was angry or she was upset, not she was on the sand. That's a weird response. We were talking about a living human being because people have moods and that's usually what we mean by that or how they're feeling. Right after he says that sand is when you see his lips do that other compression. Guys, this is enough deviation in baseline for me to now go, this guy needs some attention. And we would crawl all over everyone of these details and say, why is that deviation occurring? And we'd ask a lot of questions. Here's another big deviation in baseline for me. What we've seen from him before is when he'll illustrate, it's usually just with one hand, the other hand is locked down and a lot of times both hands are down there like he's got no action happening at all in his arms. Jokingly picked her up in my arms. I even jokingly picked her up in my arms. And both arms come up in symmetry to do a mime of that action. Mime from Latin mimosis to copy. He copies that action and really well and congruent in time with what he's saying. Here's what I'd say. He most likely did pick her up in his arms. Whether he did it jokingly, I don't know if that comes first and there's a lot of emphasis on that, picking her up as a joke. No, I think he probably did pick her up. I'm not sure what condition she was in when he picked her up, but I would pretty much guarantee he picked her up, maybe moved her somewhere. Yeah, I would pretty much gamble most of everything on that one. Afterwards, I don't exactly know what, you know, I'm scared, I don't know what to do. And I decided to take her and to put her into the ocean. Yeah, I wouldn't miss you. Joran says at about 2.30 a.m., he calls his friend Deepak for a ride home. And while waiting, he says he tries one last time to get Natalie to go. I tried to convince her to go back to her hotel. I even jokingly picked her up in my arms to try and take her to the hotel. And she said, just put me down. Do you remember the last time you saw her? Yeah, the last time I saw her was when I told her I was gonna go to Deepak's car. And how was Natalie? And she was sitting on the sand by the ocean. Did it seem like a wrong thing to do, leaving a girl on the beach like that? At that moment in time, for me, it wasn't the wrong thing. But it's definitely the wrong thing to do. I mean, it's not something a real man would do. It's not normal. It's not right at all. But you did it. Yeah. Why? Yeah, because at that moment, I wanted to go home. I wanted to go to school the next day. Joran says Deepak's brother Satish picked him up and drove him home. But he also offers an interesting little detail. He says he left without his shoes. Why shouldn't the fact that you left your shoes be seen as a sign of panic? That you were nervous or scared about what had happened there? Because that's not what happened. Why would you forget your shoes? You said you weren't drunk. I'd left them on the beach. I'd walked to the car. We got in the car. And right then there, I couldn't go back because we were going home. In fact, those shoes have never been found. And neither has Natalie Holloway. When Cuomo asks him, why would you forget your shoes, he starts smiling. This lets us know he thinks he's gotten away with it. And this is one of the best, if not the best example of Dupers Delight. I think we've seen on this channel so far. This is almost perfect for that. So he doesn't say why he left them on the beach. He breaks it down into what he says happened. He says, I left them on the beach. I walked in the car. We got in the car. Right then, right there, I couldn't go back because we were going home. So he starts off saying, I left them on the beach. I walked in the car. Then he says, we got in the car. That right there tells me something's up, that there may have been more than one person there, more than him being there. Somebody helped him with it. Once whatever happened happened, he told somebody and they helped him with it. Be these two guys he's been dealing with. Or his friends or his buddy is supposed to come pick him up, whatever. There's somebody else involved in this, I would think from the way that sounds. That's what I'm under the impression of. I'll leave it right there. When you see Dupers Delight, I see arrogance, pompousness, entitlement, and anger. That's what I see in all that stuff. And I'm like, I love those personality traits because I don't know how to work those. We have tools for working on those. When I see him, show contempt in his face immediately when his exaggerated storytelling is not working. I think I'm seeing entitlement. I think he's pissed that Chris Cuomo has challenged him about his shoes. This is the first place he's really challenged him. I think if you poked him a little bit, you'd get a very different behavior than he's done to now. This is pronounced, I think you're starting to hit entitlement. You also see, when that much contempt shows up in somebody's face, you've done something. You've hit some button. Or you're too close to the truth. And so that's the way they push you off. This is the second most important video to me now. Number two, where he was hiding time. Now this one where he's showing me who he is, the only brow movement we've seen earlier, there was one piece, a little bit of movement. And now we see an exaggerated brow movement when they ask him about his shoes. I left them on the beach. There's an exaggerated movement, a sniff. That is out of character for him, out of baseline. And then is this micro? I don't know, but he's got his brow down in telling. This progressively makes me think he's got elements. He wants to get out and make sure he covers his story. And that if you poke him enough, you'd get something out of him. So this gives me an element of how to go after him next time. And whoever's going to interrogate this guy, poke on that. I'm sure you know, you've got plenty of video from him in his murder trial and all those kinds of things. But poke this guy, take away his entitlement, and watch what happens. Two things are very apparent here. There's a smile, Scott, where you saw Doober's Light. I saw maybe one of two things. If he's innocent, and I want to continue to think, if he's innocent, what context would I be seeing? What would I be seeing here? This smile could indicate that the question is pretty stupid, which it kind of is. But if he's guilty and a monster, which might be likely here, the smile is, I think, in response to him being hypothetically referred to as nervous and scared, which insulted his feeling of manhood. Why shouldn't the fact that you left your shoes be seen as a sign of panic, that you were nervous or scared about what had happened there? To which he refers to later in this exact same clip. So there's an increase in blink rate when he's talking about leaving the shoes on the beach. And our blink rate is how fast or how often we're blinking and it goes up to when we feel stressed, it goes down when we feel focused. There's not a whole lot of clusters here in this video, but keep in mind we aren't in control of this interview and we cannot control these questions here. The questions aren't very good. And even more importantly, there's nothing that I can see being done here to increase the two critical factors. Number one is increasing anxiety associated with deception. Number two, increasing the seriousness and gravity of the interview. All right, so I was born in one of Europe's most important shoe towns. So I know something about shoes. We even have a shoe museum. So you could go to the shoe museum and learn all you needed to know about shoes. Shoes are super important because they give us that sense of safety. They help us walk long distances. We feel more aggressive if we're wearing shoes, more passive if we take our shoes off. Remember that story of Cinderella, which is with the story of Cinderella is about inside something ordinary is something extraordinary. You know, a rat can turn into a coachman and already pumpkin into a beautiful guilt coach. And she escapes at midnight and leaves her shoes behind. Why? Because she panics. She panics. And so that symbol of leaving your shoes is an idea of emotional panic. Why? Because it's true. If you're so panicked that you forget those shoes, then seriously something is going on inside an ordinary story. Something extraordinary is going to be going on. And my guess is on that beach, something extraordinary happened there. Something that most likely you and I and most everybody watching this have never done. Something quite extreme happened out of an ordinary situation of being on a beach so extreme that you would forget your shit. You might even take them off. In the first place, why would you want to do that? By a beach, often because you need to go into the water. You maybe take your, why would you want to go into the water and then be so panicked that you have to run away and forget your shoes? Well, let's see what happens in this grim tale. So I grab her and I have pool and have to walk with her into the ocean. I push her off. I walk up to about my knees into the ocean and I push her off into the sea. And yeah, after that I get out. I walk home. The island is huge. Joran says Deepak's brother Satish picked him up and drove him home. But he also offers an interesting little detail. He says he left without his shoes. Why shouldn't the fact that you left your shoes be seen as a sign of panic? That you were nervous or scared about what had happened there? Because that's not what happened. Why would you forget your shoes? You said you weren't drunk. I'd left them on the beach. I'd walked to the car. We got in the car and right then there I couldn't go back because we were going home. In fact, those shoes have never been found and neither has Natalie Holloway.