 As always, there is a pleasure being with you right here on Y254. This is Y254 TV, where we are just in time for the next discussion of the day. If you're just joining us, this is why in the morning, my name is Ram Aguco, and today it's all about academics versus career. Now, what is the area of focus that we should take? Does your academic affect your career plan? Does your academic plan affect your career plan? Does your career plan affect your academic plan? Which one should we put more weight on? Is it possible for you to build on one and not the other? These are the issues that we shall be discussing today, and I would like it to be part of this conversation, but I shall highlight where I shall engage with us in a bit, but joining us to have this conversation, I am with Lawrence Ofunja Kangei. He is someone who holds a diploma in religious studies from Consolata Institute of Philosophy in a Bachelor of Philosophy from Pontifical University in Benia, Rome, Italy. He has both master of us in philosophy and a Doctor of Philosophy in philosophy from the Catholic University of Peace in Africa, and he is currently pursuing a Bachelor's of Law at this later institution. Karubusana? Thank you very much. Quite a portfolio. Thank you very much. When I grow up, I want to be like you. Thank you for finding grant to join me this morning. Thank you. The hashtag as always is why in the morning, at Ram Aguko, at Y254 channel, make sure that you engage with us. If you have a question for our Doctor here, make sure that you engage with us. I like academic versus career, which one has an effect? And I would like to start with this first, Lawrence. What's the difference between an academic plan and a career plan? Thank you, first and foremost, for having me this morning. It's a pleasure. So that you may have a discussion on this important area. So to begin with, before I answer your question, what is criss-crossing my mind is why academics, why career and what should define the other if at all that is the case and if that is not the case which one predates the other which one comes before the other which one has more value or importance and still if that is not the case how are they related what is the relationship so going back to your question what is the relationship between an academic profession academic plan versus a career plan yes yes i'll begin by saying this academic first and foremost for you to understand and for you to be able to answer that question you must explain from the root meaning of what academics is and you must also understand what a career is right so let me begin with the career with education education come from the latin words education and education so education translates to the english to bring up and education translates to the english version to bring forth to bring forward to bring forth forth yes all right so to bring up and to bring forth so the question is what is this that is being brought up and what is this that is being brought forth that is a very important question because it will influence the understanding of what a career plan is right if at all it is to be answered and if at all the previous influences the latin so the aspects of the elements that are being brought forth are the deep seated values in somebody the talents your capacities your inherent abilities now your this capacity of the talent are the inherent abilities in what area are they are these inherent abilities supposed to be seen in the career path yes or in the academic path ah i will say that they are supposed to be seen in your life what are you able to do what is this contribution that you can use this deep seated values to make a contribution to the humanity to the world at last right and now that brings in the aspect of career right so education has to do with training right and this training influences career to the extent that you acquire skills how do you acquire skills this one still sends me back to the four dimensions of education that is the cognitive the dialogical the normative and the creative because cognitively you acquire certain concepts you are able to conceptualize issues and this conceptualization will be seen in the manner in which you interact with what you are conceptualizing it will be seen towards the outside it will be an extra movement right this is what you have this is what you can do yeah so what you can do has to do with the profession or the career right yeah and what guides it is what you have what you understand if you look at the creative aspect of education if you look at the dialogical aspect it is the interaction between alana and trainer right yes so what is the nexus between alana and the teacher or the instructor it should be dialogical it should be conversational right he said it is uh conversa is that cognitive cognitive aspect of dimension of education we talk of dialogical aspects where we have the communication between the student and the teacher yes it's a dialogue it's a dialogue after that we talk of the normative which is the normative how would you acquire the norms the customs the conventions the putative or the crossboard accepted ways of conducting yourself within the society perfect from the term norm what is a norm yes it's a crossboard accepted mode of operation or modus operandi and lastly we talk of the creative at the creative level there are so many disciplines and that is why kenya most at the moment is talking of cbc a transition from an 844 system to a cbc system a competency based curriculum right most likely this will be pegged on the creative aspect of education in terms of art arts artistic and arts cuts across it could be a musician it could be an artist in terms of sculpture drawing all these things now for for um and at the curriculum yes like the cbc yes does it have these four dimensions it should have the normative the interactive it should have because what the four dimensions of academics actually brings out the cater for the diversity of humanities not all of us are cognitively talented or not all of us are properly equipped cognitively some of us are equipped in terms of being creative some of us are equipped in terms of being dialogical there are professions that require that and some of us are equipped in terms of being uh uh uh persons who can shape the society through the norms and all that so a career to to answer the latter part of it a career is i'll say this that inasmuch as education informs a career it predates a career okay so it is education that informs your career it predates it comes before but remember we should not just understand education from one perspective education should be understood in at least three ways you talk of the formal informal and non formal right it's not a must that you be enrolled uh into a learning institution for it to be educated yes there are certain things that you can still acquire without joining an academic institution we call it the school of life absolutely and it comes with the experience right so the society right from the smallest basic unit of a society the family it forms our primary unit for learning or being educated and also there should be a distinction between a learned person and an educated person lawyers call themselves learned well uh are they educated or well uh i take uh a different position on that issue because the aspect of a learned friend that person it should not just be applied to one profession or one career pattern that's lawyers uh uh a learned friend first and foremost has the following interpretations it is someone that you share the same level of education right it is somebody that happens to have been your contemporary right right maybe you school together it's your classmate uh but in the manner in which the lawyers use this term uh a lawyer is expected to know bits and pieces of everything right and that's why a learned person in this sense implies someone who knows something about everything and not everything about something okay all right all right all right so um what we're saying is uh your academics academics predates career so if i'm to get you right for someone who wants to uh get a certain job yes should they uh get this job because it is what they are passionate in because now that job becomes your career or should they go for that job because that is what they were taught in school uh is it better to like to go to school to get a job or do you get a job so that you go to school to learn about what i am doing because currently yes we have many kids and so have gotten us a certain job and now they have to go back to school to build their portfolio on that job because now they have found themselves in this job there is a mismatch between the primary goals of academics and the secondary goals of academics you don't necessarily need to go to school to get a job that one i can uh say it time above number that you don't need to go to school to get a job but is it better to go to school to get a job it is advisable but it is not it is actually sufficient but not necessary so education here is not a conditional senior kwanon it's not a necessary condition without which you cannot get a job right but you cannot be transformed as a person without going to school and that's why it says transformation absolutely and that forms the basis of the primary goals of academics primarily we should be transformed persons once it's ascertained that we have gone through a learning institution how does this transformation come about because alana is just like a raw material so the same way you can take a deformed soapstone then you carve it into whichever carving that you want if you are a sculptor so education is a tool of transformation so the learner should allow the academic curriculum to go through him or her so that you are transformed do you know it's a best possible for you to work in the rain and still remain dry it is possible it is possible okay not really you can just look the way i am in a shirt and you'll end up being dry what am i saying not all learners become transformed at the end of the uh period learning period so learning is intentional that's what i'm saying learning is intentional now do do do employers prefer academic papers or experience going by the current trends in as much as we'll be subjected to a theoretical sort of interview most employers will also tend to test your skills right what you can do yes it's not about all what you know but it's also what can you do about what you know so this brings in the question of the relationship between theory and practice can theory exist without practice and can practice exist without theory that's the question should i can and youth watching you right now yes being climbed to say that let me go back to school so that i can have a better future or so i can get a better job or should they say let me look for a job after i've gotten uh this job i will get the experience that will enable me to get a better job uh what i would say to such a person who seems to be in a dilemma or turning between i identify your purpose because it's not assured that going to school will get a job it's not assured but it is an odd situation it is expected that once you go to school once your character is transformed you'll use that character to impact on the society you'll make a contribution no matter how minute it could be or it could sound that is what life is about what can you do that somebody else cannot do what is your purpose right what is this that you can now go to school to systematize it right what is this that you can now go to school to say that i have the training but it's not that what you have gotten from school is the one that informs what you should be doing because now you know countryning also come in place of experience absolutely absolutely because uh uh the the Kenyan government as as we speak is supporting a lot of tibet institutions right because there has been this rush for certificates certifications in this country no wonder i said there is a confusion uh between the mismatch of primary and secondary goals of academics yes yes yes so having understood that not all of us are gifted in terms of uh kognitive and some persons are gifted in terms of handwork right in terms of vocational training right and that is where the government is allowing several options such that having identified your purpose having identified your strong goals your strengths how would you profit how would you systematize those capacities yes and at the end remember the biggest purpose of learning is first and foremost you as a person to be transformed i'll keep on repeating this aspect and after the society realizes that you're transformed you you make a contribution no wonder if you meet the most illiterate person somebody has never gone to this uh formal training and he or she realizes that uh you've gone to school the person will not hesitate to tell you kindly carry yourself as somebody who has gone to school the person will not tell you the person will not tell you kindly carry yourself as somebody who is seeking for a job they will tell you carry yourself as someone who has gone to school who has gone to school because absolutely the society expects a lot from those who have stepped within the presence of formal training the society expects a lot the whom march is given march is expected which brings me to find out when it comes to job seeking in the job market yes i want to compare two things yes academic qualification and professional qualification is there a difference between these two they could sound distinct but then separable there is separable yes let me take an example of accountants or even lawyers those who are being trained to be advocates yes after you have attained the academic qualification there are certain specific institutions that you must go now and practice you are now trained in terms of how would you do this out here better that is now professionalism that's why you acquire some professional qualifications professional qualifications are mostly anchored on academic qualification all right all right let's let's let's differentiate between the between these two for some reason they do have no clue what you're talking about this academic qualification what is it by definition and professional qualification what is it if i go to school and i do my bachelor's is that my profession that's your you have an academic qualification difficile between these two so an academic qualification is a qualification that you acquire from a learning institution a higher learning institution a university a college these debates that is academic qualification right a professional qualification is a certification of that academic qualification that you have been found fit having undergone certain academic training you have been found fit to deliver in a certain job or in a certain field so they are certifying you right without which in as much as you have the academic qualification without this certification that is the professional qualification it might be difficult for you to be recognized as a professional in that field in that field so professionalism or a professional qualification has to be understood within the ambits of certification have you been given a license to practice that which you have acquired right during your training which most Kenyans do not have they go to university yes the bachelor's degree and say this is my profession that is it taking examples of professions like teaching we have the TSE yes it is the TSE that through that acquisition of the TSE number it certifies that you have met the minimum requirements of becoming a teacher by profession by profession having gone through the university that offers bachelors of laws you'll have to proceed to the Kenya School of Law to be certified as a lawyer as a lawyer and now you'll become an advocate once you've been admitted to the bar so you have been certified you have been licensed to practice law as an advocate of the High Court of Kenya you see once you have pursued bachelors of commerce you must or it's expected that to be registered by ice pack they have such a body right such that you are qualified uh if you're in the line of accounting you are qualified as an accountant that is a professional qualification it's not an academic qualification and this academic and professional qualification how should they now translate into your career all right now let's now you have this qualification academic or professional translating this into your career which one of these holds more water that can thereby affect your career and is it possible at the same time to enter into a career after attaining an academic qualification and thereby uh uh you know because of this conversation then you feel like i need to go back and get a professional qualification um since each good law has got exceptions so i will say that by and large that should be the way to do things but there are exceptions whereby you'll find certain careers may not necessarily require that that certification of that license they'll treat the license as both having completed your education in terms of having attained a certain level also so not all not all fields have professional qualifications all right not all fields not all fields it cannot be all fields this one has to do with uh just a few things to do with medicine law uh accounting uh engineering such like teaching even right but uh there are certain areas like for you to be a lecturer the minimum standards as a tutorial fellow for you to be allowed to appear in a lecture room or lecture column have you uh completed your master's degree successfully right right then after that have you completed your PhD successfully you become a lecturer so that's why i've said not all require a certification because the completion of the academic the attainment of the degree itself serves both academic and the certification thank you very much my brother so um i i i i want us to wrap it all up yes at that point yes but i want to give you of just a few seconds to have a final word to speak to that kenya newt who is watching you right now in regards to this academic and career what would be your what should we go home with our take home for the day uh our take home for the day is that um education is very important right because once you are educated and once you learn it then it saves your life because and a learned person an educated person will not threaten his existence as that person who is ignorant so ignorance threatens our existence wow education preserves our existence wonderful words ignorance threatens our existence thank you very much laurence for your presence you're welcome for for coming today thank you it was an insightful uh conversation thank you for the invite all right and i was with us to the end of this conversation this morning on why the months about academic versus career i hope you've learned something and if at all you uh you you want to get a hold of of laurence how can they get a hold of you uh i can share my phone number yes you can uh and if you are on social media if yes i can still share my email address i guess that one those those two should serve okay so my phone number is 072289 that was 074 uh my email address is KALAOFU 2017 at gmail.com you just come again with the with the phone number how can someone reach you again with the number 072289 0074 and my email address is KALAOFU2017 at gmail.com make sure that you get a hold of him to find out more about your academic and career