 It's like roughly 9 p.m. Everybody's here, which is amazing. Thank you so much. We really didn't expect everybody showing them time That show that you're either jet lagged the right way or that you really care either way. It's really really good Let's walk through the day very very briefly Like right now 15 minutes of just one coming words and like short intros like everybody will say Roughly one or two sentences like we weren't like why you care about me to pee or maybe you don't maybe you're just like What it's about like that's also an acceptable answer. It's just you know, you do you and And then we have project presentations and discussion blocks in the project presentations Like we try to squeeze in as many as we could so like we're kind of gonna be Manu here Manu is amazing He's part of the Deccan stuff and like he's gonna be keeping the time he prepared everything He's also he also prepared cards that showing you when you're out of time because I think like about half of the room are speakers Right, so like, you know pay attention to what he's showing you We know that these are short time slots and it's impossible to cover everything in such a short amount of time But it's more of like hey We're like galvanizing the community now and like starting a thing that we're gonna be doing for at least three months together working on mapping out the p2p ecosystem solving charges together and You know and things like that. So we basically this is more of like who is who what are you working on? What are the challenges and like let's work on a common vision for solving that we have that protocol today? Karissa is here. We have Dimitri sort of from status. We have Seb camber talking about reputation in p2p networks. We have rich burden showing wire line We have Deborah showing Keltia Very all showing talking about redundancy in p2p distance. I don't think she's here yet, but she's gonna arrive soon But one is going to be talking about testing networks with white block Matthew sleeper is gonna give overview of SSB Jaya promises me wanted to be here, but I think she had a small accident last minute. So so she won't make it this time Fatemeh will talk about polka does need for p2p Mike and Molly from political labs will will cover lift it to be and IPFS and I know there are like a lot of people that email last minute and like wanted to do a short lighting talk Like we should have time for that like five or ten minutes depending on how many of you are here. Please raise your hands Okay, Abby's here. That's perfect. And I know that there's two people that are gonna arrive soon So like we like if we if we stay on schedule like we're gonna be able to talk about all of this We're just gonna be very cool. And then discussion blocks We have like, you know, bunch of people we're gonna be taking notes during that during during care presentations And like it will be great if you if you're presenting you also briefly mentioned like what do you think the biggest challenges are for us to push this forward and That would be great to map this out in the discussion part like what the challenges are and what the action We have some ideas about that when working on something we only include you on that like before we start You know, we really have high hopes for the discussion part But to kick things off we have one of the days here to like probably remind everybody why this matters I hope so. Well, I would actually like to do a kind of a kind of a brief introduction of The idea of P2P and maybe maybe a better way to do this. I was thinking about this when you mentioned it I would like to kind of understand what everybody thinks that term means. What is it? What does it mean for everybody that's here? Because we have a pretty diverse range of projects doing a lot of different stuff You know, I think there is a common cause here And maybe the reason this room is kind of distinct is because in some respects some of the people here are working on things that Can work in conjunction with a theorem or quite separate from it or the projects like that so Maybe instead of giving kind of an introduction that's stating what P2P is. I'd like to hear from you guys in here What do you think it is? I'm one that I've been working with a lot of projects in space and currently working on a wire line and for me P2P is about You know kind of a kind of a way to get sovereignty over over the sort of digital world that we're creating Anywhere we don't have a lot of intermediates or any of possible We can just directly connect with the things that we care about. So where would I move from here in one direction? How about you sir? And peer-to-peer What I'm interested in is Whatever you like to Our devices and being able to talk directly with each other and figuring out That having some utility for us What's the project that you're going to occasion in coordination? True box Ruben, I work with consensus Organized identity and pitchment actors of audiences Or piece of sovereignty Peer-to-peer It's like Vittorrent and Napster, but like next phase I Think of hey, I feel like I work on deaf P2P for EF Me three I work on lead-to-peer status and for me Peer-to-peer is the mediating sort of centralized Working on identity Did I deploy it so we need P2P is power of allowing the user with each other and manage ensuring that communication That's nice, which has nothing to do with P2P but I like it P2P because It's very fair Ryan Previously, I was working for a colony just exploring research down No metal band I'm Robert, I'm the founder of Tokyo PimTech, so I'm interested in P2P from it and he said plus find this perspective Because I'm working on Something like open buzzard or for tokens And I'm also working on point communication there using to be I Which we do Hi, I'm Tabra I'm one of the co-founders of Althea And we take software But our link to the company already blocked We're building a decentralized data marketplace So did you say data marketplace? Data marketplace Hey, I'm Robert I'm working for Tipping Market So I'm from the foreign engineering team So I'm here to learn more about this big thing Hi, I'm Remco I'm a researcher at I'm Remco I'm a researcher at Xerox I'm looking into decentralized exchange And peer-to-peer is important for us Because it's a commission that's inherently resilient Hi, I'm working for Coinbase And I'm here for support Hi, I'm Jock Stand up, so we can see you Hi, I'm Jock I work for Status I work on smart contract languages But peer-to-peer is To be what the internet is supposed to be And it's what it was invented as In 1970, and that's how it took place I'm Kuba I'm a podcast show host I'm Sanjay Framingdell I'm kind of interested in How this is applied Hi, I'm Raymond I work for this network We're looking to So we developed This product called This product called So we are going to publish Our data to Access I'm Danny I work for I'm Shuhei from Your voice I'm Shuhei from I'm a researcher Hi, I'm Benjamin We do IPFS For structure services And I'm here to see How everybody else is thinking On the potential of this data I'm kind of on-site with Peer-to-peer And that is Peer-to-peer to me is Kind of building a more resilient web So I think in like 2005 70% of the internet was peer-to-peer 75% percent centralized So obviously Something changed there, so it's going back Kind of for the best percentage Yeah, sure. Michael also Like Danny from Prevox We work on distributed data And identity systems And this is by We are creating a foundation Which is supporting Software development Of the defy of the system Shand security And the Attack I'm Salvador I'm an engineer I'm Shuma I'm a student You guys need your help I'm Bernardo, I work for Request Network And I'm looking into using it to peer-to-peer To connect our notes I'm here working for the Application of the SESA And I'm looking into Identification Hi, I'm Mike Gelzer I work on the Wikipedia Pee project And for me, peer-to-peer is about Eliminating centralized control points In networks That you have No single peer is more powerful than any other By the way, we missed some people Who came in, so Sean Great, over there You guys want to jump in? The question is Basically an introduction and also I'm interested in knowing what peer-to-peer Is to you guys Okay, cool. I'm Molly I work on that Pee Bus project Pee-to-peee to me Is about making a more resilient Network that we can all connect through So that no matter where we are Or how many people get together We can still make use of the tools We really care about Hey Brian, so tell us who you are What peer-to-peer is to you Sorry? Say it again I'm from the interior foundation And what peer-to-peer is to you What is peer-to-peer is to you When people get along with our meetings They will tell them how to get along Cool Thank you Hi, I'm Eric I'm from the IPLV project And I have maybe a useful definition Because I'm worried about Making data structures that Play well with peer-to-peer And networking, you all can figure out Right here She's hiding Yes, she's hiding I'm Martinus from Prismanica Labs And peer-to-peer The internet is something that should be in control of anyone So that's what peer-to-peer is Thank you Hello, I'm Taki Ho I work in a company We're in Japan And I developed software For enterprise using This telemetry Measure system And peer-to-peer I like peer-to-peer Because the peer-to-peer system Is more natural for me Thank you My name is Seth I work on the cellular protocol And I'm interested in resilience And I'm interested At this best end I work in operations at the end What do you speak to peer-to-peer about? I know a little bit about it But it's the substitution Of New rules or interactions Which we make parties For like the central And it's our priority I'm a terrorist from Prismanica Labs Working on using Me for our internet client And peer-to-peer is a way for Entities to talk to each other Without a centralized Entity I'm Abby I work with Radical and OScoin Which are both building A decentralized alternative to Github So focusing on peer-to-peer Code collaboration And in that same note I think peer-to-peer Enables us to deep platform And break borders I'm Dean I'm a researcher I think peer-to-peer is about creating more accessible Networks and so that's what I Mainly care about It's building easy to use Good morning everyone I'm Arun I'm from Victory Technologies So peer-to-peer is Really valuable to the Community communications And I try to concentrate On how data can be Saved forever Without loss I'm is Ben I've developed For me Peer-to-peer For me peer-to-peer is About Identity And a bit of freedom From centralized Hi everybody I'm is Antoine from WhiteLock A little bit about what we're doing this morning So for me Peer-to-peer is the future So it's just with applications now Rules aware So we're going to see more and more of that We specialize in testing Those things and breaking them as much as possible So we'll see I'm Renee and we'll solve WhiteLock I'm here because networking touches Every part of the work Hi I'm Salar I work with Wireline Because of its permissionless nature Hi everyone my name is Matthew Slipper I founded a company called Keokin And we help other companies Build protocols and dApps And I think that's not SSB Peer-to-peer Peer-to-peer is important because it's the substrate That allows you to build Accentualized applications So you can't have one without the other And here we are to build that great foundation I'm Julian From Golden Foundation And I think that For me, Peer-to-peer Is important because that's something That enables Emergence of the complex Systems in a bottom-up Way Exploitational way With exponential growth If you like Hi I'm Rich Burden I work for Wireline I'm interested in Peer-to-peer because The internet was originally designed to Be tolerant or catastrophic Nuclear attack And still operate And I think we still have some existential risks today That we need to guard against And I think Peer-to-peer is a way of getting back To the original origins of the internet Hi I'm Ashwin Work for Wireline And for me Peer-to-peer is about sort of replicating What happens in the real world Just taking it online, all your groups All your connections in the real world You know, people directly Thank you Hi I'm Manuel Suru And I'm basically working on a Collective venture builder So we're trying to Be like rocket internet But with peers that are building stuff And not only developers But also marketeers, operations guys Financial Help that any project beats And we just connect all these tools And bring people together What's Peer-to-peer? Well, something that enables us To work with that Somewhere in the middle Is there anyone else that Can we get to... Yes Who are you? Oh no, why do you do this? Are you Frankie? Hi I'm Frankie I work on MetaMask What was the question Yeah I'm just here to help everyone out You know I think that's about as good Of an intro, generally speaking Peer-to-peer is what I hope to give Because this covers the philosophical The social But there's one more person Who perhaps will have the solution Hello So the question is What's your name, what you're working on And what Peer-to-peer is to you We're just finished around the picture What is Peer-to-peer to you? Allowance Or data Or value Cool Final worth No, that's about it It sounds like we have a number of people here Who are The right people to help us come up With the definition of what this thing is So we should probably just get right into it Chris is going to start Yeah, Chris is going to go first So who's heard of that before? So it's a community driven project For secure real-time distributed data sync That's like a nice way to say peer-to-peer But yeah So it's a peer-to-peer protocol A little bit about me I worked at Google And I worked also at Pandas I worked with the founder of Pandas for a little bit Sold that company to Cladera But I couldn't like deal with like large companies So I just always was doing like small projects I also worked at Anaconda So I came from like a science background And I was doing research And science is messed up Everyone was talking about Yeah, science is messed up Everyone was talking about That half of published research could not be replicated Like the data was just like locked up in silos It was like completely gone Linkrot was an issue So scientists are still talking about this Problem is still not really solved So we were talking at this time 2013, how do we replicate research? And then we kind of extrapolated on that problem How do we collaborate on data analysis? Because that's all we're really talking about So it's terrible They still do this If you have like a server And you share that server with a bunch of people Bad things happen So they started using like Git Or email or rsync S3 Dropbox But all of these have their own issues When trying to collaborate on data analysis So I found this guy In 2014 And he was talking about let's do For data what Git could do for source code I was like this is a really cool idea We should definitely do this Because Git is just not working I don't know if we try to put a termite into Git And it falls over So also I was working with TSBoost at this time And there were other people talking about this too Look at this, this is Juan Just on his computer panel This is me, we were all just hanging out In an archive a few years ago But we basically started an organization Called DAT And it was focused on how we Solved the scientific problem Of sharing data sets That people still haven't been able to really solve And we weren't a company this time So we got non-profit funding So about everyone talking about science At the same time There was like revolutions happening around the world That was part of the occupied movement We were watching as the world Was going into Basically chaos because Governments would shut down the internet And then people would go into the streets And it became really clear that peer-to-peer Can be used for more than just scientific data sharing And we got really excited about the idea of building Applications on top of this So we took BitTorrent As one of our main inspirations We actually used the BitTorrent DHT For a little while in the beginning So there's some problems with BitTorrent It only works for static files It takes scales really poorly On really big data sets It's really easy to eavesdrop And find out what people are sharing So we wanted to solve these problems So our goals It's easy to use And it was an alternative to Dropbox And good We wanted to be dynamic and real-time data Built for modern scientific and activist use cases And always be faster And no eavesdroppers So you take this cryptically secured data link And it never changes Even as the data is updated So how do you do this? You build it on top of a log Right? Pendulumly logs How can we share pendulumly logs? Right? Merkle trees I'm not talking about Angela Merkel I'm just talking about Merkle trees So this is like I'm not going to talk about how the Merkle trees work Because it's kind of 15 minutes But Git So we wanted to really talk about Real-time distributed data sync though And Git isn't great at that So how do you do real-time? That's what you need to build applications So every time you pin data The root hash changes and this is the issue With real-time data So we brought crypto Crypto to the rescue We generate a key pair A public key and a secret key So say someone trusts the public key That I'm sharing with you So I sign the root Of the root hash with my secret key And then as I add data We sign the new group Right? So then Bob can use this public key To verify the root hash signatures over time So this is how Dat works This is the basic building block of Dat Called HyperCore Which took about four years of development Like went through multiple cycles of development And this is HyperCore We're sorry, HyperCore and HyperCore Protocol So what people have been doing To build applications on top of it You add some storage like file system Or S3 Or maybe browser cache You generate an index Over the data So say you want to fetch Or query the data in some way As it's coming in you create indexes over it And that's really a database So then people can start creating applications Then you add a network So everything is built In a modular way We don't say that you have to use any sort Of networking protocol You just have to somehow Replicate pipe of data Into the network and then get it out on the other side So people use WebRTC They use UTP NDNS to find peers It's DHT It's very modular As they need So this is the foundational Building blocks of our white paper Which came out in 2017 It's part of the non-profit Called Pimp for Science Which we co-founded So now we have like 7000 downloads a week On NPM through all the modules And about like 1500 dependent projects That we know of like through You know internet scraping We had our own dog food also So I went often For a couple of years Contracted with a couple places Matias and Max as well And started building Applications on top of this And we started participating in the community Started a community group Over time So building a user interface Is on top of this stuff One of the biggest first user interfaces Is a web browser That uses dat to send data around There's also another big one That I got personally involved in Called Map.io Which is a collaborative map editor So you take the open street map interface Put in a desktop app And put peer-to-peer backend Underneath We work with monitors in Peru And Ecuador and Guiana To map their territories There's also a mobile app That uses dat Using Node.js mobile So they connect They take pictures of forest Of oil spills that are happening And they put them on a map And together they collaborate with the community So everything has to be offline We're talking like six hours in a canoe They can't have access to internet They don't have access to internet And then they create maps And print them out offline And they use them in campaigns And in legal defense Or in protected Millions of acres of pristine rainforest Using the technology Peer maps is another one But this is not about local And collaborative map editing It's about taking open street map And distributing it across the internet Literally taking the principles of Bittorn And setting it home And applying them to open street map And they're actively working on stuff It's really amazing if you want to watch them So there's people working on social media So there's a chat app built on this Called Kabal There's a collaborative workspace Called Pushpin. These are all desktop apps By the way, and mobile apps There's a scientific data network So Dryad in the California Digital Library Is collaborating with the University of California To distribute data sets Across their data centers There's a cooperative hosting network Called Kobox. They're actually pretty new And they've done a lot of amazing work In the past three months It's wild to watch them on github So you should totally check them out They're doing a lot of multiple writers And resolving conflicts And stuff in the file system It's really cool. Aura It's a content reward network They've also put out a bunch of stuff on github They're more ethereum focused And then Wireland You'll hear from them later today That's pretty new as well It's coming out with some cool stuff Yeah, so People are using the stack right now To build stuff. The problem that we're seeing now And where are we going From now. So we have this amazing Set of apps that people are using It's a distributed and decentralized organization There's no central control Of what people build The issue that we're trying to focus on now Is how you can make These three parts a lot Easier to work with. Because right now When you come in and you try to build an app You kind of have to build your own database From scratch every time Which is I'm sure some of you want to do it But someone who wants to build an app If I have to raise a lot of money Or hire some distributed engineers It's a huge task It's very complicated and things break So What are we going to do to try to fix that We're going to create a software development toolkit So that people can Get started quickly Do very rapid prototypes And then if they want to have a lot of customization They can start going under the hood after that Also helps if you have Like major bumps or big things That happen underneath the hood You don't have to change your entire application Because an API down the stack changed So I was using the non-names But here's the actual names of these On github. You want to go check it out Hypercore protocol, hypercore We're coming out with these new Modules This year HyperTribe, HyperSwarm And this is going to be part of What we call DAT 2.0 So this will be Already these models exist But we're not putting them into a cohesive package Till early next year So how much money do you think That we've spent at the DAT Foundation Do you want to take a Guess $100,000 A trillion and $100,000 One million One million Yeah, $1.6 million since 2013, sorry So the DAT Foundation Is US based non-profit Started 2013 but formalized in 2017 $1.6 million over the past Six years, mostly funded by The Knight and the Sloan Foundation Although in the past year we've gotten a lot of individual and organizational Contributions Our current operating budget is $300,000 But we have like $40,000 left in the bank right now This is like Classic non-profit, like always writing grants Always like Getting people involved and Getting donations So how do we do this? Well it's Community, right? It's not about the money It's about people caring about this And contributing time So our value is our community first It's transparently funded and we have open governance So we have a series of working groups So you can participate in Making good software And getting it away for free And that network effect Of that good software that people care about And the scientific values of that software The computer scientific values of that software Is what gets people excited And together we can build This amazing Applications and work together So that's kind of the vision for our future So as we go from networking To collaboration, this is kind of A phoenix for the next year Is how can we get developers from networking And I don't mean like pure networking But like at a conference Networking to cooperation To coordination, coalition and collaboration So our plan over the next few months Is to build a membership model And next year have a community event And start a community grants program You know people say we're standing on the shoulders of giants I'd say like We invite the giants to come sit at the table We have time for two questions It's okay if there are no questions When you received the grants From the foundations What was the story that told you Why were they interested in this project? They're interested because of scientific data sharing So most of, I think like 1.3 million Of that money came from Scientific data sharing Because there was already a use case At that time for that purpose And there's a lot of money in the reproducible research case And we're still going after grants In that space So They found us They're using the open source modules And they're contributing to the code It's all open source community So we haven't given them any money I'm just curious They found us Conferences That's it Thank you guys So I'm working with status This talk is going to be mostly More about Here to fear from the From the point of view of Resource construction devices So status is a company That Primarily Works on a distributed We chat Like application Obviously it's in Target's phones And it's currently Heavily involved in building Clients for road to gear monitoring With its major focus being That We helped to find the 2.0 metric inspect And there's also A pursuit of something called What P2P which is a Toolkit to build P2P solutions Like P2P So How does Status uses A distributed chat application And it's able to With lost peer to fear Stack in order to fulfill its promise The P2P is No, sorry The problem is that The current Ethereum solutions Peer to fear solutions are not Necessarily They don't necessarily fit What Status requires at this point So we are going With Which is a Mind alert stack so you can swap Components in and out It's got Multi-transfer support You can use this P2P You can use this P2P Straight up We'll do the things like that Which is really cool Also there's no event in the wheel Often times when you're building A peer to fear application You tend to sort of build A peer to fear stack from scratch It's probably not a good idea So And there's also lots of buying From other projects Ethereum itself Hold it up So So Our implementation has been built Using something called Neem Just want to give it a little bit of props It's an amazing language Haven't seen it Tried out It's super fast It's got native browser support And it is I call it super productive And it also just got version 1 Which took a while But it's here So I want to talk about the challenges Of P2P Sorry not P2P Peer to fear in general And those are scalability So Continuing stable connections In peer to fear networks It's very challenging That's one of the major issues Scaling Hybrid being very diverse You can run it on DC servers Or you could be running it on A browser or on your phone So that's how genius You have to know Discovering nodes is also a problem There's different solutions for that There's DHT rentables, etc But out of those DHT is the only true Sort of distributed Discovering mechanism And It is relatively easy to subvert Although there are Ways of going about it It has It provides some Workgrounds or solutions To mitigate those issues That's our problem As well The Bandit It's a big one Usually in peer to fear networks There's a lot of traffic And discovery Sort of like metadata And then privacy and anonymity You can build You can encrypt data And you can prevent from it being Uninspected and things like that It's a lot of metadata And usually Not to basically Invalid every other Security measure you have In place And then In order to Support To run a large peer to fear network You need some sort of incentivization And I think that's The thing we haven't really solved yet So This is The solutions to some of these problems That I Just want to bring them up Obviously The trick is to build Clients that always contribute Something to the networks There's this idea of Like clients in peer to fear networks And usually That implies that the client is Basically In most cases we just data from other Bigger nodes in the network More powerful nodes in the network Usually that doesn't scale very well Because you end up with a lot more Like clients in the network Than full clients And if they're old age and then It's very hard to scale your network So one of the things that I believe that Should That peer to fear network should have Is the ability of Utilizing every single resource that's available So if you're a like client And you can still Serve some chunks of data To other peers in the network If we're talking about data specifically Than you probably should do that Because that's going to help Scale the network And we also Should also solve the Incidentification issues There are sort of projects but And obviously These two things are not And And That was the other time Which is great because we're back on Blackdown and we have time for Three questions from the room if there are any I'd like to ask something So Status is one of these Projects which basically Kind of could manifest As a result I guess you could say The original policy of Ethereum Is that Right Are you looking at status And its current development as a way To sort of patch that whole thing Is it not explicitly focused On the metastation of the singular Act So It's basically trying to Fulfill the work Fulfill the gap that's As you mentioned Ethereum Liking Scalability Status is basically Trying to Help those scalability issues That it brought in to try To sort of Build its Like application And now it's Fushing forward Some of these efforts Was that a question? I was more asking The status maybe as an organization Slash as a set of Technology Do you intend to have Lots of other people building On top of that Have Ethereum on that Tree options? I think People better To answer that question I You did show up Do you want to expand on that Or do you want to run it? Thank you Thanks My name is Seb Camar And I work on the Silo Protocol Today I'm going to be talking about EigenTrust Which is a Protocol that In 2002 With a couple of columns In my And EigenTrust is all about trust And reputation in peer-to-peer networks And I want to talk about it today Because At the time We were thinking that There was going to be I'm going to walk through Basically The context for EigenTrust When we wrote it And then I'm going to walk through Why it's relevant today And then I'm going to talk about Some interesting research that we can do Going forward That's a lot and just a little bit of time So I'll just go and jump right in So we started to The context in which we Thought about EigenTrust was Back in 2002 Peer-to-peer file sharing networks Were getting popular And at the time We were flooding the peer-to-peer file sharing networks With bogus copies Of music So someone would search for say M&M 8 mile road And then you get 500 results Later You get 500 results 400 of which were Inauthentic copies of the song And so the way that they would do that Is they would come into the network With an adversarial node And start spreading that information And we saw that at the time And While it was The application itself was somewhat interesting What was more interesting to us Was that we saw at the time That we felt like Peer-to-peer networks would start to get very popular And this problem Was not a problem that was just about file sharing This would come up in Lots of different scenarios And we would want to have a situation In peer-to-peer networks Nodes Adversarial nodes could be Identified And people could be Good acting nodes Could be prevented from interacting With them And so there's a couple Ways of thinking about doing that I mean the first is you can imagine Just having a proof Of a cryptographic proof That this file is Like this song is actually Eminence 8 mile road In a lot of cases That's difficult to do In that case it would be difficult To do without say a central Authority actually having a copy Of the song and that's not possible And so the approach that we chose To take was to assign A trust score to every peer In the network so for example If this peer was choosing To download files from either That peer is up here it looks At the peer with that trust score of 0.9 And chooses to download the file From that peer That I mean is straight forward But the big question is how do we come up With that score And I'm going to talk about three approaches Each of which building on top of one another Culminating in the agon trust approach So the first is just Using past history And so the idea is that you have interactions With a peer and if the interactions Are negative the scores go up And if the interactions are negative The scores go down And that's a pretty straight forward way That's how we interact in real life And so we can Mathematize that by creating a Vector of peers We'll call this peer peer I And then therefore this Trust vector would be C I The vector of Opinions that this peer I Has of the other peers on the network Now the problem with this is that You only have Interactions with a small number Of peers on the network But there's a lot of peers on the network And so you don't have enough coverage With just past history So the natural thing to do Is to ask friends Ask a friend of a friend This is also what we do in real life When we don't have enough coverage And we can mathematize it Pretty straight forward What they think about their friends And we wait Their opinion of their friends By how much we trust them So this is C I The opinion vector of peer I And this is C J The opinion vector of this peer And if we want to put it in A matrix form we say Let's ask our friends J What they think of peer K And wait what they think of peer K By how much you trust Peer K In matrix forms it looks something like this So this I call the ask a friend operator That you have a matrix C transpose Which is the list of opinions of everybody It's the network graph Of all of the opinions of everybody on the network And then you just multiply it By your own opinion And you basically take one hop out The problem with this Is too full, you either have a lot of friends Who have a lot of friends And then you get good coverage But you have to do a fair amount Of computation and storage Or You don't have a lot of friends And then You don't have to do a lot of computation And storage But you do end up having the same problem That you had in the first place That you don't have enough coverage So what we really want is We want lots of coverage And low computation To get lots of coverage Is just to keep asking friends So you start to ask your friends And then you ask their friends And so you just apply the ask to the friend operator again And then you keep asking Until the cows come home So you have the trust vector Is equal to ct to the n Times ci And there's a great benefit To this and it's not just the cows Is that this trust vector When you compute it in this way It actually converges to the same thing For every peer on the network So what we've done By asking friends At infinitum Is that we've actually computed a global trust Vector for the entire network And so therefore Each peer can collaborate in the Storage and computation Of a single trust value for each person So a single trust vector For the whole network And the way that it works The way that we can do is Initialize the trust vector To any Any vector Let's just start with the uniform vector And then we just keep repeating Applying the ask a friend Operator To this iteration And you keep asking and eventually it'll converge And what it will converge to Is the principal eigenvector Of that trust matrix The principal eigenvector of the matrix That represents the opinions of everybody Everybody In the network So this is nice And if we had a centralized system Or even if we had a blockchain This would be sufficient We could just take the Opinions and have a centralized Computer or lots of computers Operating in consensus Compute this computation But we can take it one step further Because With a true peer-to-peer network You won't have any single machine Any single node Storing the whole matrix Or even storing the whole matrix Or being able to compute The whole principal eigenvector In fact what you have Is you have basically Each node Storing its own row Its own Basically its own Opinions of other people And we compute A principal eigenvector When you don't have a machine That knows the whole matrix Well one way we can do this Is we can recognize that We can take this Matrix computation And actually Break it down into a Single element computation By saying that This element, the TI element Is actually equal to And To be a little bit less Abstract about it What it means is that My own trust score At any given time Is The opinions that people Have of me Waited by their trust scores The trust scores of the people Who have opinions of me And so in that case everybody Can compute their own trust score Once they just know those two things So you end up having A Pretty straightforward Critical where you For each Here you compute your current trust value By taking The present trust about the present People who have opinions of you Their opinions of you Times their current trust values Then once you compute Your current trust scores Your trust score And the opinions That you have of other people To them And then they aggregate those And compute their trust score And then you wait until it goes around And they send it back to you And that iteration keeps happening Over the course of the network And that way lots of peers all over the network End up collaboratively computing The principal eigenvector of a matrix That none of them knows the whole matrix When we When we wrote this in 2002 We're like you know like there's going to be Lots and lots of peer to peer application Just right around the corner I heard a little bit earlier But now Is the time I mean I'm seeing that There's lots and lots of peer to peer applications Right around the corner And I'm seeing that those peer to peer applications Will need notions like Reputation Identity The ability to identify In a decentralized way Adversarial nodes In a decentralized way Be able to self-organize To avoid those adversarial nodes And The exciting thing is it's not really About music sharing I mean You take a look at lots of different graphs And you can imagine lots of different Computations that can be Trust computations that can be done on those graphs So for example I mean one thing that I'm very interested in is attestations And By and large I mean people think About identity computation In the context of attestations So people will attest Like I will claim that I have a certain property And Other people will attest That I have that property But the problem with that is Well I mean Who knows who these other people Who are attesting that I have this property And in fact I can make 500 symbols At all the tests that My name is John In fact my name is Sam And so But if we wait attestations By A trust score Then all of a sudden we have Attestations that are much more trustable Similarly if you imagine kind of a Decentralized finance application You can take the graph of Loan repayments And then compute a credit score In a similar way In a decentralized way Another application that I really like is Actually I have two minutes left And I want to move on to questions So let me just So to me this is a very exciting Time for trust computation And I think there's a lot of Really interesting research opportunities And this is one of the things that I'm excited About sharing with the community I think it's really interesting In the current context to Compute these trust computations Without anybody knowing Your opinion of them And so that's one One interesting area of research A second is We can imagine Tweaking the trust computation So that different people's preferences Actually make for different Levels of trust so we actually Go back to rather than a single trust vector Multiple trust vectors And then finally We can look at dyadic graph structures For example if you have buyers and sellers Or two different kind of people Who interact with one another And those will lead To trust computations that are more Around the singular value Decomposition rather than The eigenvector calculation So that's all, thank you all very much Your question Your question So it looks like You thought about doing that for Distributed web search Yeah I mean so Absolutely The way that I see Page rank is As an example of trust computations And so yes absolutely I think it would be really valuable In the context of distribution What's the communication order? Sorry What's the communication order? Yeah yeah yeah So basically the message complexity Is Linear to The number of nodes in the network And the reason why Is because Each peer only has A certain number of peers that they interact Like say 10 or something like that Rather than Every peer Every peer interacting with every other Peer in that case So you don't like You never find the problem That's right exactly Yes Is Is it a flooding algorithm? Is it a flooding algorithm? Yeah No no You can send the message Only to the person who needs to get And you know who that is Because it's the person who needs to interact I think that was just Is there like a magic number of A lot of nodes needed for reliable Numbers? I can trust in the same way you can run page rank With just a few nodes I think the important thing is You want to make sure That there is The number of adversarial nodes Is not the majority How do you trust The The trust score that your peer Is giving to you? That's great I didn't have time to talk about it today You don't in this So what we did is we used distributed hash tables To have a score manager And that score manager is Actually it's three score managers Who vote And that Make sure that those are trustworthy Rather than Yeah It converges pretty quickly So basically And this is something that I also didn't get to in the talk What we have to do is We have to add a regularization parameter So right now what could happen is There could be a click And that click you just basically end up Never converging because you never get out of that click And so basically what we have Is in page rank what they do Is they You know So the way that I'll frame it is There's a probabilistic interpretation of this The probabilistic interpretation Is that you're jumping around from node to node Following People's local trust And then after a long period of time Your likelihood of being At a node, that is the I can trust score of that Now in order to make that work You can't get stuck in a click There's no probability of jumping to a random node And once you have that Regularization parameter The convergence is quite clear And it depends on what that probability is You can actually tweak the convergence rate You know I actually I haven't kept track I mean we are interested in the context of sell-outs But I haven't kept track of this What's happening Yeah Cool Well thank you guys very much So Deborah from Altia And there's IP address on the board So I guess that's it Yeah So here is the The 5 gigahertz and the 2.4 You're welcome to log into it Of course there's no internet connected To it but You can go to the dashboard And see the interface that are You can see when they So Hi I'm Deborah I'm one of the co-founders of Altia And I'm really excited to share a little bit About how it works today And then I'll be sharing more about Our experiences working on the ground In my community Setting up one of these decentralized internet service providers On Thursday This week as well So Altia is Software That runs on readily available Consumer routers Like the one we have here That allows people to Set up decentralized internet service providers In their community Because the routers Pay each other for bandwidth So this lets Homeowners and business owners host Some of this long range Wifi hardware and earn money Automatically for doing so So that instead of One ISP Running all of the infrastructure And owning all of the different pieces of the network And extracting all of that profit Many different people can be involved And earn money And Altia does this by Using a price aware Version of the Babel mesh protocol To select routes So what this means Instead of only selecting routes By the best around trip time As we would see in a local mesh protocol This also takes the price Into consideration as well So that it's going to automatically On a second by second basis Select the Not only the best route But the least expensive Sort of adding in that opposition And It's also like a prepaid system So essentially you load your router Ethereum or XDI Or recently we've added in A bridge so that It's easy to get Ethereum But you can get from Coinbase You can send that to your router wallet And then it will bridge using Uniswap To XDI and be a stable currency So you don't have those price fluctuations That Ethereum has for And users just try to pay for internet Okay so what this Does and we have Lots of different people owning infrastructure Is that it creates an automatically Competitive bandwidth marketplace So this is sort of the picture Of what we have with the internet Currently right you get An internet service monthly subscription And they bring in a specific hardware And it's very siloed But with Althea What if You could automatically Compete With your service provider On like a second by second basis Your router was doing that work for you So as we build these networks And different people own hardware The links Will select the best route So This is a map of one of our Assisting networks in And this is what you are We're all community here And you can see the sort of nature That we have here each of these Different links are what we call a relay And so that's a home or a business Person or You know a farm in this case That is hosting some hardware And getting paid for the Routers to that And as you can see we even have some Really dynamic links That this is that way in the valley There and then routes To a person up on the hill And then from that person on the hill All the way out to the river And the reason why we did this Instead of going straight is because This sort of interoperable Kind of agile configuration That's us do as well And then we'll be adding more Redundancy and links as the network Sort of grows Another thing about Althea Is that all of these Interconnections between home owners Is encrypted using wire guard And that is then decrypted At the exit, what we call an Exit No which is just a VPN Server and a data center And this also allows for Us to Verify that the Cost that each link is reporting And the roundtrip time Is verified Instead of just sort of Potentially misrepresenting that fact So here's one of our relays So this is actually that farm On the valley There and then that green Connection there so what we can see Is we have an antenna coming into the Receiving signal from a And actually this is from Like a wholesale fiber back call And then she's getting that Incoming connection and then the two smaller Antanas are connecting up her nearby Neighbors and Those three Ethernet cables are then routed to Her consumer router in her Home which does all of that Filling automatically You can see this is her ether scan Of money coming in and out and settling And It also handles all that routing and Then it provides for her home Wi-Fi so for her She just gets internet And actually gets extra money That she About a hundred dollars every couple of months From about six connected clients That she, so she uses Coinbase As an exchange to actually extract that To fiat instead of the other way around Which is pretty cool And then she also Has this sort of bio drill So she'll go and talk to her neighbors And try to get more people connected We should have one relay that Will take a bottle of wine with neighbors And see if we can Get the connected to the internet So you can see it has that sort of Like incentive for For bio growth as well And there's always that incentive Because it is sort of meter that We want to add in more More bandwidth and better service for folks Even as permissionless and as automatic As we would like these links to be There still is some friction with the hardware Around the radio hardware And the outreach part of it So we have Another incentive for What we call organizers Which is typically like a business Or in the case of that rural network It's a cooperative Or sometimes it's a nonprofit As well so it's kind of different legal structures But this sort of entity Provides for the customer service That things go wrong, helps Solve people in many cases And kind of helps curate the network as it grows And they Earn a monthly pro-rated subscription fee But for the in Users, the insubscribers They simply load their router up With Ethereum or XDI And then It's routed automatically To the people who are forwarding them Bound with or in a pro-rated way To the organizers address And so this is sort of our next iteration Of the project, we have the pilot Program And now we're helping other folks Get started with their own networks So these Are what we call Althea hoods And essentially It's just sort of a set of marketing And a pre-registration page So that organizers could come And kind of front load The user acquisition And if they're ready to build out That sort of initial fiber backhaul And get that network anchored Then they have all of their User acquisition and marketing Or whatever already in place And so we have a few folks We have a couple of networks starting in the United States And one in Nigeria here in the next few months And then about another 10 networks That are working on Starting up in probably 2020 Just to kind of recap And I think there's some time for questions Yeah, cool So kind of the benefits, of course Is that it's owned and run by the community That it's serving And I think the another benefit Of any peer-to-peer system Is that the money stays within the Economic system that it Is serving So instead of mini telecoms Where it's a stocking ball Especially out of these developing countries Where we have foreign companies coming in The community is able to Reap the economic benefits And again that's that Also that built-in competition Where your routers is Basically choosing The most competitive link It's a sustainable way Because of the incentivized links We'll see the network effect and growth Neighbors paying neighbors for bandwidth Which is like very core Pea-to-pea array And yes So that's That's it, do you have any questions? Cost, I guess Is dependent for structure into place Because obviously all the hardware And I guess to create the relay And to install that What's the cost associated with that? Yeah, it's a really good question And that relay in the picture there Has about $400 For each of the Outgoing antennas $300 for the incoming antenna So that's actually a little bit more robust Than some of the relays I would say you're probably looking at between $500 And a thousand dollars depending on how How many people it's going to serve And then with the routers Is it like a specific router that you have to use Or can you use routers That you can get from the store Or is it just like a specific router? So we do have supported models It's open work-based Or open WRT Or routers that you can get from Amazon And we have like three or four Supported models I mean are these expensive models Around $20 So then the most expensive Higher performance ones around $200 Give it Yeah, it's not a single radio Match as you saw there You have one incoming radio and one outgoing So we have about 5% Packet loss per Performance loss per length So the one that was like 2 or 3D We're still seeing 50 megs per second You know Out of it Does the infrastructure for breakdown Are people to repair it How does that work? Yeah, so this is why we have The concept of the organizer right now To help curate Unfortunately the radio hardware isn't Completely in a permissionless state Where people can just pop them up And they just work and everything Some of the things that are coming Will be informing radio so there's Loss of the aiming And you know kind of maintenance But yeah for right now the organizers Do that role and they get paid With the subscription fee If you encounter any issues with The service providers I Expect that that might be Prohibition to resell your Bandwich to others or Well we do use a wholesale connection So we are just operating As an internet service provider at some point In the network of our gateway However what's been really interesting Is that some people some of the internet service providers Have actually At first been really resistant and then Thought this might be a pretty cool idea So I think we'll see as these networks grow And disrupt the space they're going to come on board To not be at gateways as well In fact what are the reasons for them to Think this is like cutting them In any way Why do you think they would Feel bad about it Well I think there's always just legacy Resistances to change But I think as time goes on They'll see the mark of potential That's lost Do you have a plan if an ISP buys you? No I don't We would hope that they would just run the open protocol How do you sustain your work Because you said that you don't extract value From these communities that also start But how do you sustain your Yeah so We're working we're building A Cosmos blockchain So that people will pay with Ethereum And that it will bridge to our token So instead of Ethereum At this point miners might get 5% of the transaction fees They'll get token holders actually well So for end users they'll still Have the same process of buying ETH and putting in other routers But then our companies actually Blockchain Thank you so much Nero And now let's see if you can piece this out 10 minutes to take it Okay So hi everyone This talk is a bit improvised Because I was invited yesterday But I'm giving a longer talk In the swan protocol session This afternoon So a little bit about me During the 2012 And 2017 I was Doing research on Server codes For cloud storage And PR to PR systems I did my PhD in Switzerland And also at the The storage center at UC Santa Cruz Since During my PhD I produced the Alphandangamani codes And since last year I started Collaborating with the people from Ethereum Swan to see if we can implement These codes in swan More robust And then since this year I joined the BB Chain Norwegian project At the University of Vestavanga Which aims to Develop a system To verify documents And the first use case Is like diplomas So we can have the digital diploma And verify that this is a real diploma And all the processes So not only the diploma But the whole process of the student The work of these two students Racing who is working on Actually the implementation of Alphandangamani codes In swan So he is here also that comes He will be talking with me this afternoon And Rodrigo who is focused on The part of the smart contract and verification So This is very very Short idea of what I'm working on That you can Get more info This afternoon The main The simple way of Getting redundancy is just copy your data And this is This is Very popular This way of just Keep replicating data So this is basically the mantra behind this The more the better Which if you have more replicas You can tolerate more failures If the network is not good The nodes disappear But this has Disadvantages which is the space of our head Then We have another approach To achieve redundancy Which is with erasure coding The MPS codes or read sort of codes Which Have the mantra behind that is The less the better because you want to save a space And by By Erasure coding your data What basically you do is like Using your file and then creating some Extra blocks But now you use less space Of our head But the problem with this method Is that maintenance is very hard And many peer-to-peer systems fail Because of this In the sense of faith to Protect the data Because you can create This redundancy at the very beginning But then it's very hard to maintain To keep it when the nodes start When there is a failure The maintenance takes a lot Of bandwidth and also It requires that many other nodes Are available when you need To do the repair So I'm working, that's what I developed During my PhD on Alpha entanglement codes or entanglement codes The idea of entanglement codes Is that each time you add a file To the system Again you chart the data So you have like blocks of these files And you export these blocks With other blocks that are in the system Creating a pattern, creating like Multiple chains of entangled data And these chains are Interwined together Creating a large structure Of a kind of a lattice Where this lattice creates Many different ways, many different Paths where you can recover this data And by doing this In a very efficient way So every time you have a failure Or a single failure you only need Two blocks to recover the data And then you can do The repairs in parallel Because this lattice you can do Some repairs, some blocks that are missing here Or some blocks that are missing here Always by reading two blocks And only doing a sort That's also something that I didn't Mention These codes are normally the Arithmetic source codes are based on Galois fields which is a bit complicated So to make it more efficient You have to have optimizations And some optimizations are also That there are patterns behind this So these codes are very Simple to implement And they facilitate The repairs and the space requirements And also can tolerate A large amount of failures And we show that in some cases It's superior than Ritz-Olamon So You will get more info This afternoon, if you want to come To some break up sessions We will talk about We are going to meet in tournaments And you can also Read the last paper To publish a PSN And then I want to mention something I'm working On the And the workshop proposal To submit to a very Top conference on systems So it's about systems But in general I notice that there's a lot of photos On centralized systems But it's a system conference So I would like to Discuss more All these topics that are decentralized Also in the academic environment Why? Because Between 2000 And 2010 There was a lot of research And there was very serious research On systems But somehow this Disappeared Or maybe changed the name That was not cool to talk about B2B Because it was associated with Illegal networks Or illegal downloads There's still research Of course in B2B In the academia But it also takes different names But not as much We had a problem for researchers That we are interested in doing research Of these decentralized systems It's very hard to attend this kind of Conference because they are a development conference And when you have funding It's only for academic Conference because you need to publish So it's My aim is to Mix both communities By doing this workshop Where the purpose of this workshop Is to have some keynote speakers From the academic speaker From the decentralized community Also have some I know that people from the community They don't publish They don't have the time to publish An academic paper But it will be very nice To have posters From the decentralized community So to show the students What interesting things Or what problems can be good For research To connect To have the contact of the students With the decentralized community And also to have a plan So I just started My associate professor position So I still don't have Much funds So I need much more help Than what I can provide But if somebody is interested Or Or know Have contacts with other people That could be interested In participating in this We need to submit a proposal At the beginning of November And the workshop will be in April in Greece In the top conference So that's all what I have To say for today About density Party Books We are buying this kind of Educational codes I mean Turbo codes The problems with turbo codes Is like they have patterns No And also In some cases I don't have comparisons In the papers With turbo codes We have comparisons with others Like with Low locality codes With read solomon I'm also now working On a system that Will be Useful for anyone to compare My codes with others So you can implement turbo codes there But I don't have mention of Turbo codes Thank you so much Hey everyone, my name is Fabri Slipper I'm the CTO co-founder of Keokin For those of you who don't know what we do Or who we are We do software consultancy A bunch of notable folks In the space We did metamask We also have a grant We implemented an audited production ready Plasma MVP A bunch of other stuff You can talk to me about that later Because today's talk isn't really about what Keokin does About something that's important to me And that's peer to peer decentralized Social networking So I'm going to kick things off The most memorable moments growing up That I had when I interacted with the technology And the first was when My level 9 dwarf hunter First walked into Iron Forge And saw the dude with the lowy sword And the second was when I signed up for Facebook The reason these two things Were so memorable and important to me Was that it was the first time In my life that I'd actually seen technology Be used to connect people In the case of World of Warcraft It was here's these people that are Burst within and changing this incredible fantasy world And the second one on Facebook was Here's all these people Maybe folks from the weird private school I went to When I was younger that I hadn't talked to in years Maybe folks from the There was a hotel group just called The Slipper Clan So it was other people with My saying weird last name And we could all get together and talk about What it's like to have a weird last name I'm not kidding One of them was a member of the Australian Parliament So why am I bringing this up? Well, SSB is more than just a protocol It's a set of applications that let you Build decentralized social networking So I've got a bunch of slides in here that talk about Like how it works and things like that And we'll get there but like the first thing I want to do Is just like show you SSB So let me X out of this And then come in here And then drag it over here And then go like this Awesome Lovely So this is Patchwork Patchwork is a client application That talks to the wider SSB network And the resolution is kind of screwed up So you can't actually see the channels on the left So I'm going to make this guy look a little smaller Do you want to do that? The channels are shown on the right Alright well I'll wing it guys I'll wing it So anyway what you're seeing is Patchwork It's the client that connects to the larger SSB network Something that's important to note Is that if I mouse up here You'll see that my wifi is off So everything that I'm currently interacting with On the screen is local On my computer that I synced from a network Of decentralized peers all around the world If I were to go here And let's take a look at what People are talking about in the closure channel Oh it's not letting me click it Alright well Things happen I'm just going to scroll here You can see that we have a sort of very typical Social feed here But the difference is No one is actually posting this feed It's all local And I'm replicating it from other people Out in the ether as it were And no one can take these away from me There's no product guide Whose responsibility it is To drive engagement eyeballs to this That's going to say I'm not allowed to talk about X, Y and Z The only person that has any control Over what content goes in here Are the people who are posting it And me The guy who's viewing it And so it changes the web from this paradigm Where we go and post stuff Onto some platform somewhere And some other product guide decides Where that's going to be rendered And some algorithmically designed queue of posts Instead I'm creating a viewer Onto the web That lets me see the web The way I care about And the things that I care about Forever And no one can take it away So you know If you guys want to download it yourself Take a look at it It's relatively straightforward But you know You've probably seen this type of UI before But that's why I think this is important And why I care about it And what the end result is Of the technical protocol That I'm going to be giving you An overview of next So anything you guys want me to cover again Before I launch into how it all works Alright cool So let's go back to Mr. Powerpoint here Like this I have a question Who said that? Hi Are there alternate user interfaces? Oh yeah There's lots So there's patch bay There's a whole bunch of CLI based ones There's always ones that are using That's patch work I like patch work because it's a little bit More polished Yeah I recognize patch work But it's this one The one you are personally using today I don't want to tell you who my account is though Because one of the fun parts is that It's like actually pseudo anonymous And so Yeah sorry about that And anyway So this is how SecureScotland defines itself As the protocol So it's a family of protocols From the secure generation and replication Of pend-only data feeds You're going to see a lot of overlaps And parallels between this And what was discussed during that Because it's a very similar idea You take it a pend-only feed of content You replicate it to a bunch of other people And then you allow client applications Databases et cetera To be built on top of it And then allow people to index And display the data in a meaningful way And when I say it's a family of protocols It's also very similar to that They're designed to be mod... Oh am I already down to three minutes? Jesus Alright better talk faster then So yeah The reason I say it's a family of protocols Is that they're designed to be modular It makes them match So I already did the demo Here we go The SSB family consists basically of these layers At the bottom layer you have a set of keys So a key pair that's used for user identity There's no canonical naming on SSB So you name yourself Other people decide what name They are going to use to describe you You then have your feeds Or the append-only feeds that we mentioned earlier A secret handshake Which is how peers talk to one another Identify one another And encrypt traffic between one another Yeah pops broke out two in a second In applications Which is something that you've already saw So patchwork is an application This is an example of what a key looks like So in this case Soapdog, the guy who was talking about The go backup tool This is his key Anytime you see a feed That has messages signed by this key You know it belongs to Soapdog But Soapdog doesn't actually own that I've decided to accept the fact That he's called himself back on SSB This is kind of what a feed looks like Just like a blockchain is content hash linked So this previous hash here Is the hash of this entire message before This is how you're providing authenticity To the messages as they get replicated People would need my key And they would need all of my messages Going all the way back to sort of A genesis message if they wanted to Forge anything that I'm trying to say on SSB Cool, so we talked about secret handshake There's also a publicly known network key That's included in the secret handshake I'm not going to go into the details of that Because it's just not enough time But if you imagine a TLS handshake Between two peers Where the identity is the key That I most recently discussed That's the way the secret handshake works Now we get to some of the interesting stuff So here discovery You can pull stuff in over a local network So that's Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, whatever else The guy who founded SSB actually lives on a boat And when he gets back onto shore He connects to a local Wi-Fi And syncs all of his stuff You can also use an invite code or a pub message And pubs are important because following has meaning There's one thing that I want you to take away From this sort of talk about SSB Is that SSB has baked the concept Of like the social interactions between people Into the protocol And the way it does that is with the pub And when you sign up to a pub You now have a pub and the pub follows you The pub will be replicating your feed messages To existing users on the network When you saw the demo That was coming from me connecting to a pub And the pub giving me everybody else's messages And me caching them locally So you end up This is something that looks a little bit like this I took this from the SSB website Basically you have a user And you are seeing messages That are and hops away from you This is kind of interesting Because it means that How many of you have gone on Twitter And like just been bombarded with trolls Or people you don't like And sort of things like that Sort of see some nods And things along those lines On SSB when you block someone It has protocol level meaning Your client will refuse to replicate Any messages that come from the blocked identity Oh, I'm out of time Can I go over for 30 seconds? Yeah, you should And thank you so much for doing that Person from SSB I was not able to come to DEF CON In the last seconds And math is like nice enough to fill in And brave enough to fill in Like on a very short notice And cover SSB So yeah, yeah, yeah So I'm on by the way I'm on 7 seconds I'm a fan of SSB I'm not a core developer But I just think it's super dope And so I was really happy To actually be able to share with everybody Anyway, so blocking has meaning Following has meaning You see the things that your social graph Wants you to see Because they're likely to be like you And follow people that are more likely To be interesting to you And blocking the same way So I think SSB has the potential To change the way we think about social networking As well as just social content On the web in general I think it's definitely worthy Of your time to check it out Because if there's one thing That's going to help end the stigma Of decentralized social networking doesn't work It's actually having content on there And your friends on there Because that's the number one objection That people have to any of these things happening And you should talk to Frankie about SSB too She actually works on it Alright, that's all the time I got Identify yourself Oh, this is a great screen Thanks everyone This is going to be really exciting Because we're all used to demos failing What I haven't seen the kind of catastrophic failures That were cascading on morning to morning So it'd be good to get this out of the way now I'm going to do a main stage talk And I'll go quickly through a couple of things So my name is Rich Gurd And I work on a project called Wireline We're building a new kind of peer-to-peer network And I'm going to demonstrate today Quickly how we can build Applications that might enable us To stop using things like Google Docs And I was involved in building Technologies like Google Docs Google, I'm not going to go through all of these slides Just quickly Building apps is hard Building apps at internet scale is really hard And building decentralized apps Is much, much more difficult So I thought just as a start We'd do a thought experiment About the kinds of technologies we're going to need In order to rebuild With internet scale applications So we need new kinds of networks Data is probably the most Important and difficult thing to solve Where do we run Long-running data intense Computations And how do we deal with identity Through these If we were running Google Docs here today All of our keystrokes Would be going through a server in Mountain View, California Or perhaps Tokyo They're not going to be going through infrastructure Across the internet And this makes absolutely no sense So we're starting to have Different kinds of technologies for peer-to-peer We've got libBTP, we've got WebRTC There's still a big challenge Getting this to work seamlessly in the browser So we need At least additional infrastructure Like STUN and internal service To do that traversal and to do firewalls But we also need DHTs and signal service So that different peers can find each other We need to do this in a way that Doesn't reintroduce any centralized dependencies If we were building on the cloud today We've got dozens of different databases we can choose MongoDB, DynamoDB Google Cloud Bigtable, S3 But we have to give up all of that And build this on a peer-to-peer network And we've got now starting Ten years ago, maybe before that BitTar demonstrated Stable file exchange Although required a centralized index And now we're moving rapidly Towards peer-to-peer protocols Like DAT and secure Scuttlebut To give us access to real-time data That can be securely exchanged But we still have a fundamental problem Which is if we've got concurrency We've got multiple people editing The same document at the same time How do we merge the data So that we've got a consistent view Of all of the information? The way Google does this It's pioneering a technology called operational transformations I'll try How about that? Apologies to everyone at the front Google pioneering a technology With operational transformations, OT And this was actually for a project Some might remember called Google Wave OT is an eventual consistency protocol That requires a centralized server Where essentially instead of Obviously we don't send the whole document To the server every time we edit it We send a mutation And what OT does Is let the server Is able to rewrite that mutation So it can be applied commutatively In any order And that means we can have lots of different peers Somewhere across the network Some online, some offline Keeping a local log of all of the mutations And then at some point They can push those to the server And the server will reconcile them Kind of like a dynamic git But centralized server So how do we do that in peer-to-peer network Where there are new technologies Called conflict-free replicated data types I have trouble saying that sometimes CRDTs Which enable these kinds of algorithms to work in peers But they have some challenges There are some difficulty problems And security issues So there's still a lot to solve there Decentralized compute Everything's happening in the cloud today Obviously for Problems that we have Where we need global consensus We're going to use blockchains But that's not appropriate for all compute use cases We can even give them layer 2 solutions That we're developing right now So as a general principle Of decentralized compute Accessible to the edges That means doing more work in the browser There are going to be many use cases Where we want long running processes Doing compute intense things For example if you wanted something to index All of your documents so you could search them You'd need some other kind of system And we're taking a cue from Amazon Lambda And Google Cloud Functions They're very scalable technologies How do we make those run in a peer-to-peer Network And secure away And then finally Identity There are many cases we want to be anonymous But we're social beings So we represent identity for us And for the systems that we interact with But we have a single sign on today But that's a terrible thing And that's the central authority Track everything that we do We've got new W3 standards For self-sovereign identity Where we can create multiple identities Where we have to keep pairs And we have verifiable credentials Where we can exchange signed proofs To give each other access To different resources So what we're focusing on Is building this missing peer-to-peer Network that joins together The existing cloud technologies With the emergent blockchain Decentralized technologies Because we think there's going to be The web will evolve into a hybrid Of different decentralized systems So let's do a time check Yeah, six minutes Okay, great, so in Eight minutes I'm going to rebuild Google Docs That should be too long Well, we'll see how far we get So I'm showing these slides on an app That we've built on our platform Called Launchpad and here it is Here Launchpad is Both what would be called An app store, although it's Actually a permissions blockchain For any developer who can freely publish Their applications onto This blockchain And so Launchpad shows Those applications And then I can sort of create one And add it to what we call a party So a party is a lightweight Replicated database That is constructed from dat feeds And it uses CIDTs To create a consistent global View amongst all of the participants Of a particular Set of data, so we've got very simple Spreadsheets starting to work with third party Developers to build out some of these Applications We've got a very simple calendar And let's open up the document Now one of the things that I was talking about resilience earlier So we've got some Wi-Fi resilient issues Let's see How far I can get here So this is me Typing in this text editor Going so far And then over here In another browser instance Which will pretend as somebody else Not me So I call that not rich up here I'm going to send an invite Which you would send out of the band Or once you get to know somebody You can use an address to it And hopefully These two clients will discover Each other I'll move this one over here And close that off And close that And then move this guy over here So these are two peers On the same network Did it work? Yeah And we're going to do the same document You can see If I go over here quickly You should be able to see me typing over there So what's happening here Two clients swarming With the same discovery key On the same local network This would happen across the internet If we had our Wi-Fi working And then the mutations Are getting exchanged in real time So we'll go from this Into I'm going to try to build an app Now in the remaining five minutes To see if I'll get So I'll use this chat We've got an SDK Called the YSCLI And the first thing I'm going to do Is build a new pad We call these UX components Pads I'm going to fork An existing GitHub repo That has my starting point So wirepad create And then I call the name of the template And now if I go into Demo pad Over here I'll see hopefully That There's no way the VS code is not working That would just be too much, right? Maybe it's on another one No, it's just waking up Okay, here we go VS code Well, I mean at that point What do you do? Well That was cruel Okay, I'm going to attempt To do this demo in VI That's how That's how we roll here My keyboard has also stopped working Another instance of code is running But not responding, all right Let's see if we can recover from that I don't think so All right, I'm going to just try Taking this out They say Macs are more reliable I don't know All right Wi-Fi We need the keyboard We need a lot of stuff I don't think you have that much stuff He doesn't have his stuff So I don't think it's I'm going to do it without We'll do it live I'm going to do it with that That's what I'm referring to Did we lose? VS code So this is where we're going to stop building Apps and Electron and start using The press Okay, okay Can I have another three of these? Yes, yes, yes I was going to say When I was a kid Microsoft was treated as the enemy I mean the real sort of Worst contender They've kind of rehabilitated themselves Going back on that now VS code is pretty good Okay, so I opened up The pad And what we have here is this template pad And what I'm going to do Is go into the terminal here And say, first thing we're going to do is Register the pad with the blockchain So why not register Register Okay, and then yarn build Three With the crowd's permission Okay, so What should happen now Is that we're running the launch pad In dev mode And so this template is a simple tasks app If I create a new instance of that Inside this party, which is this virtual database I can now I usually type things a little bit more thoughtful than this But given the time I can now see that we've got this very simple task list If I go over to the other browser instance Over here Which has closed Not yet Here There's my task list And I can check some things up So automatically out of the box it's collaborative So let's change that a little bit I'm going to now close that out And since we're in Japan I'm going to build Shogi out So Shogi's Japanese chess I'll do this really quick I'm going to edit this task list I've got a couple of these things A couple of the import statements already We're going to change the entire render function If those of you know how to react We're going to render this Shogi board Using your current game state Which I will now instantiate Game because of your Shogi And Let's just try And then inside death So I'm going to change the icon Somebody give me a color It could be a plant there Shogi I'm going to call this Shogi Save all of that And let's see The changes should get picked up Automatically And we've got a Shogi board in green And now if we create a new instance of that We've got a somewhat of a Shogi board I can move pieces here But obviously if I refresh the screen We're going to lose all of the state The next thing I'm going to do Is go in here and Add a little parameter here For the on drop And then add a function to that effect Had handle drop So I'm going to get the events That were published by that react control Validate that's a reasonable move And then I'm going to append that to a log We're using these higher order components Which are part of a react idiom It's going to inject the database From this party into the control Give me this view object That I can then append changes to And then In order to process inbound changes From other players I'm going to Get The log view Go through each of the messages Which are just mutations Process them against the local state machine Which is this third party Shogi object And then return that as a state object That picks up here Now if I make a move It should stick So what I'll do is just finish off This part is we can go into The Chat application Which is another app here Create a chat room And I can say Hey, not rich Let's play Shogi If I go over here Into the chat app Which is just shown up magically I can see that I've got that link And if I can click on here I go straight into the Shogi game So now not rich here is playing the first move And then I click on the link here Rich here is playing the second move And then you can see that Everything's working So automatic One minute Let's build an AI to play Shogi So, alright Wire Bots Create CD demo Bots are code Frozen again This time We'll go into VI Keyboard frozen It's because you're trying to open Yeah Okay It's just killing here You couldn't make an AI I can't let you do that ult Okay, alright, so let's see This will be Even simpler Can I get from the crowd 2 minutes Can we take a vote It's not me, it's the next speaker Oh, it's the next speaker Do the thing At this point we're super curious Alright Okay, here we go So, let's see If I open Yeah, that's a bottom kit So, we've got The bot yaml So there's a configuration bar I'm going to change that to Shogi bot I'm going to change the name of the view I'm going to change the name of the bot To Shogi bot In depth, I'm going to change the view To the same database name That we chose earlier And then inside of bot I'm going to Same standard library we used earlier And Bots Process the log, so that's the inbound log This is the lambda function It gets called whenever there's imitation on feed And I'll skip ahead now We'll get the set of valid moves From the standard library And then we're going to do this really smart thing Where we're just going to take a move at random And append it to the feed So, let's see That works, creating a game here In the terminal we're going to say wire Bot register Wire pad Right, the wire bots So I'm running the bot now In its dev mode, in its debug mode On this local machine Bots are humans too And so I should be able to If I click on here, I'm going to I think this is where we actually do Give up, try one more thing What would happen Is So what What would happen here is that Publishing the metadata of the bot To the local blockchain, I can then Discover it by clearing the chain from the browser Send the signal A discovery key to the bot It swarms and joins the party And then it gets all of the mutations And We would be able to play But in this case, less Okay Since you are so generous And we got this smart, let's just try this one Wire bot register Wrong bot chain Okay So we can see that's more promising Wire bot The block times about 5 seconds So now if we query Settings Tell me the settings Registry 27 0, 1 Okay This is exciting, I don't know about you guys Oh my god Okay So let's create a new game And we'll go to members We can now see Shogi bot On the registry Shogi bot is joining the party If I click on the debug panel here You can see the different Members of the swarm Eventually Now if I make a move Professor, what happened Shogi Shogi bot There we go Oh no It's unhappy Well, anyway Okay, so that's my name I'm French, so the accent is warranted Sorry about that I can't do anything about it, I've been trying for years Sorry If you don't understand what I say I don't understand myself, but you can ask me questions Let's go Go So here today I'm going to talk about The other side of the equation So everybody here is talking about New innovative ways of doing blockchain How those new protocols come together I'm going to tell you about the receiving side Of what you guys do Which is the actual testing The issue here is that We Are now creating huge pains We want to make sure That things actually work as they should So compared to the old world The current systems that are being deployed With blockchain are really Really complex, much higher than A simple communities cluster In a convenience like Amazon Instance It's very predictable Constantly asynchronous Lots of web series specific software Is not really well tested It's really hard to test at scale Which test things is meant to just Go for testnet Try it for a few couple of weeks See if things stick Let's find out the handle It's a new stack We will need to start from scratch again Creating new testing tools Specifically for blockchain So A few requirements Sure to be a network That's why I'm here We have a concept among all nodes Asynchronous Not always final Even the finality itself is fun to test There are three orgs and chains That's something that you need to be prepared for To live with So if you don't have the instant confirmations You will take hours to test A real network We can now see that Between proof of work, proof of stake We see different trade-offs In terms of performance, 3D Organization consensus approaches In terms of testing It's just not the blockchain Everything built on top of it Starts to experience the same symptoms The same performance issues All of a sudden Things you could take for granted Start to misbehave On a whim Last but not least We have new attack vectors We'll talk about that some more But if you want to learn more We also have a talk on Friday morning We have new metrics to capture Before you just be like What's the delay? How much time does it take for the HTTP request to comply? Now we have All sorts of things we want to capture Which are all critical to the performance of the network In top of that, blockchain-specific So if we fail Some of what we have to capture For every block, for every transaction We have to get the size, we have to get the standard We have to get all the timestamps You have to compute the median time We have all the information on the blocks We also like to capture One more calls of mempo size Transmission time Transmission time It's kind of interesting Especially when we start doing topology testing And the Header validation time is kind of Fine when you're trying to Cryptographic proof that You're getting the right headers Last but not least This is something that we tested recently To ensure that we get A good encouragement to start understanding the fail So for that We built Genesis which is An upper source project Which is also complemented by tools On our platform All sorts of data extraction And all sorts of analysis So Genesis allows you to run any blockchain In an agnostic environment Where you can actually control Every aspect of the blockchain That you want to have between the different nodes You can modify the bandwidth You can have some packet class You can do all sorts of Tests which are kind of Pretty much torturing any blocks out there So this is a great doctor chamber It's out there on the web TPL license for free to take it out And on top of that So we plugged that into our platform Which allows people to do analytics on it Of a source of data science tool Specifically to the blockchain To read all sorts of data Make sense of it Compare that between different runs Compare that between different blockchains Make a solid sense of those analytics So in terms of test reads We start Very small We just want to make sure that it works Just on our start just with work on your machine So we have a protocol group Kind of nice and easy Then start doing network testing So we pull the nodes apart We make you know those messages We see if you can recover from that We do a little bit of data testing How much time does it take to sync it out Between the new node coming in Joining your network We do some compatibility testing So it's good to work with that version of priority How they're behaving exactly the same way We start testing all the upscodes Can we see that they actually behave exactly the same way That we don't have a refund That's negative to the positive type of things Use some security testing I think someone mentioned earlier Eclipse attacks That's bread and butter for us We like to do that double spans Trying to hijack some nodes Having a malicious metadata type of things We do load testing Just one node came together Completely did us like thousands of connections a second For five minutes See if they can even recover from that Or we do distributed testing Everybody just gets smashed for five minutes And we look at the result of the damage In consensus testing We do a troll And we're doing this with if2 I'll talk about that We'll do a testing where We'll take a non-state We'll get your prime to transition to the next block And we'll make sure that it's able to get The exact same result as expected As long as we can determine All the stuff that's outside Of the current test A number of layers We can actually do this With the information on those And more Just in case So you're a developer You want to use some level of testing To make sure your blocks actually work We can give you a one-time testnet You're going to take some tests To make sure it works You'd like to make sure that it actually works With another prime that you don't control That you have no idea about That's the next step We start working with foreign entities You'd like to make sure you get the right blocks At the right time You can also try this By checking the new version of the prime Of the time in which you're still able to pass Your test We can also give you a complete Definite Publicly So you're going to impere with it outside You can start doing all sorts of things So it becomes your private rubstone And you have the ability to do all sorts of Applications on top If you see what's pretty good That works really well for the Ethereum Forum as well Although, like, you know, permission networks Are much more fun And We also have this kind of stress testing Once a week, you know, on Saturday You just deploy everything And then you smash your network And the whole weekend see if it's able to sustain the effort And you can compare results with that In the next few months So just a couple samples For what we do So we do latency testing very easily That's one of our easy tests We take your network We start pushing the nodes apart And see if they're still able to communicate We can even, like, do some Geographical replication So if you have a node in New York And a node in Tokyo Here's a latency you can get Between those two locations We have also It's kind of my favorite This one, we take a nice death net We break it into wait five minutes Bring them together So what are we going to see? Some networks Some protocol will be able to out consensus For example, for the five minutes Because they can't get to consist anymore But if you have proof of work For example, you start having to change To convince each other Now, if you bring them back together You're going to have to give them some time For consensus to reach back So some engines Not actually support that very well And this is what we've done recently With Interrupt So we take seven different clients Put them in a primary neural soup Of a death net And make sure they're able to come to consensus So using this in configuration files Knowing about each other This will have a bit of a challenge to overcome Whereas you need to compete age and time Get the right blogs And all those things And this is something we need for clients Where they wanted to test an EAP And they wanted to test it in the same manner So that they could get a projective result That their EAP wasn't going to break the main net So we took the main net We took a complete backup of it We ran something like six nodes on it We changed the client ever so slightly To allow for larger transactions And that gave us the Actual results in terms of analytics So we could see the uncle rate was increasing Because of that So Any questions? Yes? What sort of scale do you guys get up to To test how reproducible are That between different nodes? So our tests are reproducible We run this into an enclosed environment So we can make sure that you get the same results At the time We can do up to 100 nodes right now We're trying to go much bigger So you already know That you can really invest in stuff So I was wondering Can you do some tests on Economic level Like broomstakes and stuff All the stuff about networking You can test this But what about the overall behavior? So we can really It's really very much replicating and running The complete testnet So you can very much deploy smart contracts on it We have some tests that involve smart contracts We can actually try to abuse them Abuse The infrastructure on top of it So if you have a bridge on Oracle We can be able to run two tests And we can transfer the bridge And then we can actually do all sorts of But it's just behaviors to see If I can fold the bridge To accept the technology We're network testers So we always end up going back Down the protocol First Do we have like I don't know in which form That it takes us I go to your blog And then I like to Compare some of the magic things That's definitely coming So yeah Personally I would like to be able to have Public data sets They're not just results They're actually giving you the whole data set Of everything that was done With the utility to our users To the public and the platforms People download like 1.5 gigabytes of logs And do their own number crunching If they want Does this work with any peer-to-peer network? Yes And even like Work press Because if you want to do blog testing You can do that So how do you know which tests should Be done before that To secure the blockchain To do a lot of discovery of clients Because they behave very differently So we've worked with a lot of different blockchain companies Different locals Different approaches, permission All those things So we end up like always having A kind of collaborative discussion About the right metrics Initially when we started out People just wanted TPS Just get like a browse For a blue token platform I think it's changing a lot more now So that is really good I hope you can stay for the discussion part Because The action plan I think you guys I'm sorry I'm really Excited to see Those summaries on the I don't know if I can Get any information from your site We do have that on the site Can give you more Thank you Mike Gelzer I work at protocol labs We're one of the sponsors Of lippie to pee Here's my partner in crime So what we have Planned for you at DEF CON This week is a kind of escalating Series of talks This 10 minute intro Is going to talk about what lippie to pee is What's coming next in the project Then in Two hours from now Raoul is going to give His talk One of two talks on lippie to pee That will take it up a level So some of you I know are experts On lippie to pee Some of you have never heard of it before That's fine We're going to take it up a level In two hours in room D Raoul is going to give his Introductory talk on lippie to pee And then tomorrow we're going to go Raoul is going to give a second talk That is of interest To the Ethereum 2 community Especially which is Gossip sub and so Digging deep into that So that's kind of our plan For DEF CON If you have no idea what lippie to pee is Let me start out We're out of the IPFS project IPFS is a project that Actually I think they're out of order You're going to hear about this In a few minutes so I won't give it away It's a project to build a globally Or even a Cosmically distributed File system based on Content addressable Content addressability And so Lippie to pee Was the networking layer in IPFS And what The builders of IPFS Realized as they were Building IPFS was that hey We could factor out this networking layer and it could be useful For other Dapps or Anybody who wanted to build a peer to peer system And so Today lippie to pee Is its own standalone library Its own standalone project It has implementations in multiple languages As we'll see in a minute Is the foundational layer for Many different projects for IPFS Obviously that's where it came from For Ethereum 2.0 That's what you're going to hear a lot about this week Here at DEF CON and that's the Sort of main source of interest at this At this event and then For many more projects I don't have time to go through them all But this is a rough list of Many of the projects that are using Lippie to pee today Okay Let me just explain really briefly What lippie to pee is Like I said its a foundational Layer to build peer to peer networks Build peer to peer Peer to peer applications where you need An underlying peer to peer networking Layer And so we have the different abstractions That provide you with different functionality That you will need to build One of these types of applications So an example would be transports A transport could be something like a TCP It could be something like UDP It could be something like radio Ham radio It could be a lot of different things Placed to another We then have these notions of crypto channels And stream multiplexers I won't go into the details of these right now But the basic idea is that in lippie to pee You establish some type of a connection Over a transport And then once you have that connection established Of course you want encryption You want authentication And you want You want the ability to send Multiple streams Data streams over that connection At the same time and that's what stream Multiplexing is about Of course like any peer to peer system Like some of the ones you've heard About earlier today Or some of the older ones Like biturin and so forth You need a way to discover other peers So we provide peer discovery We provide several mechanisms To do that you can discover peers On your local network through MDNS You can also discover peers on a global network Through A distributed hash table Which is a I think we've actually heard about these A little bit this morning But it is the Most common data structure for Finding content On a globally distributed Peer to peer network That doesn't have any centralized Lookup point the way that Centralized applications do Nash reversal is another big issue Many users are behind Nats They either don't know how To or don't want to go to the Trouble of opening Courts on their routers So we have logic and P2P to help with Traversing Nats and getting The actual machine, the actual Peer to appear as if It's on the public Internet Public subscribe is a whole Mind of itself but basically Once you have a set of peers connected To each other you want to be able to You want to enable them to Communicate with each other and one of the ways One of the most common Communications paradigms In distributed systems is publish subscribe So we have several mechanisms For publish subscribe And one of those Gossip sub is the most Probably the most efficient one we have Right now that's the one Raul is going to give a deep dive on In tomorrow So you should come to that And lastly We're in the final stages of Security auditing blue P2P So it should be I believe it will be One of the few peer to peer Foundational layers that Open source that has a public Security audit and you can see Where our vulnerabilities are What we've done about them As some I think is that one Maybe some others have mentioned There are some generic attacks That are very very hard To mitigate against in the general case Like eclipse attacks Civil attacks things like this So there's a kind of a mix Of attacks that are very hard In the general case To mitigate against and then All the way to Specific bugs in our code That we have patched Or will patch by the time We publish the report That's coming later this year So in a sense We'd like to describe blue P2P As a modular, extensible Peer to peer networking stat I mentioned earlier that we have Implementations of blue P2P In multiple different programming languages So this came about largely Because of the Ethereum 2.0 Project And once the blue P2P got locked Into the specification for How Ethereum 2.0 nodes Are going to communicate Then we had a situation where Ethereum 2.0 wanted nodes In many different programming languages And that meant That we needed to have blue P2P Implementations in many different programming languages And so some of the People who some of the authors Of those are in this room Those are some of the more advanced folks I think probably All of them are at this conference Some are so you can certainly You'll have opportunities to run into them But in the beginning Was just blue P2P And go blue P2P Those were the first two implementations Rust then came along That was developed by the folks at Parity And then since then We've had four new language Implementations of blue P2P And we're really excited to have So many different interoperable Programming languages For blue P2P specifications I have a little bit here I might skim through this But just The most mature Implementations right now Are js go and rust They have the most features We often treat go as sort of the Reference implementation We're trying to move away from that And toward a model where blue P2P Is spec first So blue P2P itself Is not a library But a specification for creating A library in any language Or on any device or platform That you want to Implement peer to peer functionality And then these are some of the newer languages I showed those on the previous slide But they're Coming along Each one is releasing on its own Release cycle And they're all Making good progress Now I just want to talk a little bit about What's coming next in blue P2P We have a lot of things that we're Working on in the project So I mentioned The new languages are at varying levels Of maturity We had to meet a minimum The implementers of each language Had to meet a minimum Set of requirements Minimum set of requirements For each 2.0 Now we're trying to build up That testing And visualization of Distribute systems is a really, really hard problem It doesn't matter whether they're peer to peer Or centralized It's still a hard problem But it's particularly hard in peer to peer So both 2.0 and 4.0 Are what we're focusing on In terms of trying to make the system less opaque Spec first I mentioned We also want to improve documentation And we have a variety of features That we want to add That we're not going to But I think you'll hear more about that From Raul So here are the 2 talks I mentioned This is my plug for Raul's 2 talks One of them is coming up in 2 hours You should absolutely go to it It's in D And then the second one The more advanced one that focuses on Gossip Sub Will be tomorrow at 14.55 In B10 Check the schedule Wow Is there a question time or should I move on? Just 2 questions Do you think the peer anonymity Is an issue on the P2P? Oh yes This is a subject we're very interested in An anonymous P2P Privacy issues Yes I wouldn't say that we've solved it Yet It's a subject of interest So there's a really interesting proposal On the P2P And it's basically using I know Raul on the P2P layer Yes, I have seen this And used space There are a lot of different approaches To achieve this And we would like to add this Should I take one more? One more There's an onion transport That opens our main portal to D So you can already see that But our view is that Privacy for serving transports Are either broken or easily attackable By even moderating size nation states So it's not actually clear The building blocks for those systems Are being built right now Helping you throw those And it will be one of the time-taps But for now The explicit thing is You've got to figure out which trends Will be used and make it privacy-oriented And be careful about that But even if you're used or Probably nation states Can deal with that Yeah, I think that's a really good agenda Okay, thank you for your time Hi everybody I'm Molly, I'm the ICFS project lead And I'm going to talk to you a little bit about ecosystem growth And adoption My slides are definitely longer than Mike's So I'm going to go real fast through some of these examples To try and get the stuff But if I don't come talk to me afterward For where we're heading next That's the part that I'll end up missing Quickly, what is ICFS? It's aiming to make the web work Here to here, so instead of HTTP We're all talking to a central server We're connecting between all of the different nodes In the network directly And it's going from something like location addressing Where you're going to example.com To content addressing Where you're finding content by what it is Not who's hosting it ICFS aims to solve a whole ton of different problems Around helping with The inefficiencies of all trying to download The same video in the same room at once To rating links to bad security models To censorship resistance And we're in different stages of Completion on various ones of these I'd say censorship is actually an area Where ICFS has been used pretty effectively In things like the The work in California Where they were using IPFS to Put up the various polling locations Where people can go and vote About whether or not they want to be independent But any number of these areas Have a lot of work to get to our end goal As Mike was mentioning IPFS is just kind of one component We've done a lot of work to factor out The different pieces of IPFS So that you can use them independently They've grown and taken on their own open source projects So, HTTP is one of those But there's also multi formats and IPLD If you want to talk about IPLD you can go chat to Eric He's your master about everything Linked data related about schemas But we kind of sit on top Of this amazing stack And realize all of the wonderful components That people like to be in IPLD are working on IPFS is a super huge community There's 4,000 contributors Around the world We actually just had our first meetup in Japan Yesterday, which was super awesome Great to meet this slice of the community And a lot of other people from Hong Kong And China also have participated in that Okay, outline for today We're going to talk a little bit about the growth We've been seeing and some cool new projects That are being built on IPFS I can talk a little bit about the future And the cool stuff that we've done this past year And what we see going forward From a growth perspective We saw a huge growth this year We saw a 30x increase In nodes connected to the network In Q2, so now we're up to hundreds Of thousands of nodes accessing IPFS Every single day Super cool, super exciting Also a lot of performance and scaling Related challenges that come out of that As you probably expect New challenges for us in terms of being able To spin up test nets That can validate that New releases of IPFS are going to be able To handle that sort of load On a day-to-day basis The IPFS HTTP gateway That we run, there's a lot of different gateways But one in particular that we're running Is seeing 300 million requests Per day from They're accessing about 1 terabyte of data So that's just one slice of people Who are currently using HTTP To get content on the IPFS network And they're getting a lot of content There's a lot of people trying to utilize this infrastructure That's another thing that we support And have to make sure it's performing When we're trying to reach all of these new people The number of people who are building On top of IPFS and building new types Of data related applications Social media, market places Content things Things in the finance space Governance related, there's a ton of New things that are happening What's really exciting is that Now some of them are reaching millions Of monthly active users So we have multiple apps that are all In the millions of monthly active users space Which means that there's some really exciting End use cases We need to make sure we're supporting People who are utilizing IPFS for Their normal browsing needs For kind of Wikipedia-style content Or videos or other things like that That's an increased scale that we need To make sure we're supporting Alright, talking about New projects, so what are some of these? Kind of three categories I'll touch on, I mean the last category Is a kind of grab back categories But mobile was a new thing this year Where new mobile apps Are being built on top of IPFS We didn't expect this to happen so quickly I actually think it's hard To get one of these nodes running On a mobile device where you have Pretty significant requirements In terms of not creating battery How much you can actually run in the background All of those things, but the folks at Textile have done a ton of work To make this actually really easy and accessible There's also a lot of stuff happening In the identity space, people building On top of IPFS to support Very different types of identity work And then finally other really cool Projects like Radical and a couple of others I'll mention that are building On top of IPFS in cool new ways So I mentioned Textile, they're Building a number of SDKs Or building on top of IPFS To make mobile apps, you can also Do web apps and build things on top of Their network of cafes, their documentation Is beautiful, highly recommend checking it out It's a great way to get started on top of IPFS They make it really really easy Another example is Haven, this is The mobile app that OpenPazar Which is a marketplace For buying and selling goods On top of the IPFS network It's fully accessible here And they have a really slick new mobile I think both for Android and for iOS Building on IPFS that you can use Highly recommend it, it's beautiful Thanks for the eBay mobile app I would say And then there's also Birdie, this is still In the works, still a work in progress But they made a new awesome Bluetooth Transport for Libby2P, which is super cool So you can actually do fully End-to-end encrypted offline mobile chat So just hear what the people next to you And then you're able to send messages back and forth No internet connection, no anything So that was awesome, they demoed it At IPFS camp, and we're continuing To push on them, they're planning to make it Fully open source, but I don't think it's quite End-to-end, but something to watch out for On the identity side Uport has been around for a while They built on top of IPFS for looking up Identity documents, and there's also now Freebox, which is super cool And they're doing user app profile Data stores on top of IPFS Using OrbitDB So that's kind of another Style tool on top of IPFS That lets you store data And this is super cool I think some of those guys are in the audience And then finally, there's the identity Manager, so this is kind of a spec And they also built a proof of concept Of working in practice This is trying to do So that you can log in with many Different identity types, say you have Freebox identity, Uport identity IPFS identity Some other somewhere identity You can use all of these things in one Identity wallet, so you can pick which Identity you want to use in which different application This is just a proof of concept Implementing the spec that they've designed But super exciting stuff All built on top of DIDs And super interested in collaborating With more people to utilize In real world use cases My last mention There's so many more things here But I want to call out three just because I think they're super cool There's Matters news which is doing In a Chinese New sharing application So that you as a person who is writing The content you contribute to this website You really own your data, it's kind of like Medium, but you can actually pick up All your data and go and take this whole site with you There's Radical I think someone from Radical was in the room, right? Yeah, go chat with her about Radical She's gonna do a lighting talk in a second Awesome, even better You can hear more about this in a second Also in Night Entity Space Microsoft has launched this DID method called IOM Okay, quickly In my last three minutes Accessing IPFS has also gotten a lot easier Desktop and web UI Are two kind of end-user tools That we created in the project To make it easy to Access and run an IPFS note Highly recommend getting started with desktop If you don't currently run an IPFS note, it's really easy You can add IPFS to your tool chain You have a little persistent Widget in your Address or whatever Hotbar that you can play with You also get all these beautiful visualizations Of the files you're pinning and what nodes you're connected to And all this other exciting stuff You could run it in connecting With IPFS Companion Which is a browser extension We've created for Chrome and for Firebox Which now has 20k people using it Super exciting Speaking of Companion With Brave directly So that you can just install Brave Go to your level settings area IPFS Companion is default You can't really see it in this tiny screenshot You can just toggle that one Companion added and it also gets access To things like the Chrome Sockets API So it can do some really cool stuff So expect more exciting news to come there But it's setting you up Where you can do kind of MD&S connections To many people in a room Over Brave and directly chat with each other Working on adding some nice IPFS colon Slash slash so that you know when you're accessing An IPFS URL directly within The browser itself, kind of leading the charge Opera is also working On IPFS and DNS Support, they announced this back in May, April, May Something like that The aim, hopefully, is to have Support in the Android By ended here And then Firefox, we've been working with them for a long time They added support for a decentralized protocol Handlers in Firefox 59 And libdweb, which is that Generalized, supports many many different Dweb handlers Is currently working on being integrated into The get go browser engine There's also really exciting stuff Happening in the gateways and pinning space There's a ton of new pinning services That overgoes somewhere in here from Pinata And there's more gateways And as I expected You're going to have to come talk to me though, it's next Even better A big focus, I'll skip to that slide If I'm still connected A big focus is testing And so we should chat later But one of the areas we're working on right now With decentralized applications, very hard to test We want to be able to spin up 10,000 nodes In a network To emulate having some of them hidden behind Nats Run a series of test cases back and forth And try and validate that The hundreds of thousands of users connected to The IPFS network are going to be very happy With the next time that we launch GoIPFS 0.5.0 And it doesn't have any issues or bugs in it Especially since that contains a number of changes To the DHT to make it way more performing resilient Those are hard to test and we need to validate That they really work appropriately Thank you so much I'm going to give a very, very short talk Just to mention some of the needs That the person of that network Does Have from the Q2P stack Okay So Before I go to the problems Let's just have a very short overview Of what Polkadot is Polkadot basically consists of multiple Chains that we call Parachains, short for parallel chains These are connected together Through a relay chain Which basically I'm trying These parachains are connected To a relay chain We have a set of validators That are securing the relay chain And we divide them into these joint Sets that are assigned To each one of these parachains So here you have the parachain E You have Three validators That are assigned to this parachain And then you have the small collators Here that are producing the parachain blocks So how it works is that Users Submit transactions to these parachain These collators Produce the block here For the parachain The validators here Validate these blocks Send them to the relay chain block And then you have shared security For all these parachain chains Now The networking that we use here Is the usual gossiping That is used in most of the network Here These collators basically Gossip these Parachain blocks Parachain validators And then they send the summaries To the set of all validators Produce the relay chain blocks Again everything is gossiped However there are a couple of problems That have occurred That we have noticed Using just gossiping And for both of them So one of the problems is that Because we have this sort of Sharding Or this basically Number of chains We don't have this pool Of validators that are Securing the whole chain But we have to also assign them Two parachains These are these Substance For Ethereum 2.0 That would be the same case That would be way smaller For an adversary Than when you have a huge set of validators So let's assume Attacker wants to attack Make an Eclipse attack On Ethereum or on Polkadot And if we didn't have Any parachains He would need to attack One of these validators But he would not be able to do much harm Because the attack surface is very big However when you have Sharding Or when you have these parachains The attack surface gets very small So if the adversary is going to Eclipse these three validators He's going to basically compromising The validators that are going to Secure these chains We have a fallback which we call Fissureman They should notice any wrongdoing Of these three validators However it would be good to have Some sort of networking where Eclipse these is also very difficult Basically securing The networking against Eclipse attack Is one of the big priorities For us Another problem that we have is Peer discovery All of these chains Are going to be in a big Cademia network But the problem that occurs For us is that these validators Are not set Assigned to a parachain And stay like them forever And would be collected to these What we rotate them And the reason for that is that At a random assignment at some point Three validators are malicious They don't keep to Compromise these parachains forever But this parachain is going to have Some chance by the reshuffling Of the validators However when you change the validators For example if these validators right now Is assigned to parachain A Later on it's going to be assigned to E The question is how is this Validators in the new parachain The peer discovery becomes very complicated And we still are working on On solving it But that's one of the Issues with having basically This sharded system And also having this rotation Of the validators The second problem that we have Is that a lot of times We have to communicate things That don't have to go to everyone So it's not like in You have a blog and you have to send it To all of the nodes but you have Sometimes we have to send things That are going to a specific validator In that case gossiping becomes Very inefficient You don't need to gossip something That I need to send to one specific person To the whole network And since we have a large amount Of data this becomes inefficient Very very fast So using gossiping for a lot of Parts of the protocol becomes Very suitable And so what We are looking into right now Is some sort of alternative routing That would be more directed So basically if you want to send To some validator A ratio coded piece That we are using You don't have to gossip into the whole network But you're going to find that validator's address And you look directly at it there However there are problems There too we want it to be reliable Because a lot of the security Of the system relies On these data to be Successfully received So these are the Main networking challenges we have Because a very short Review If you have any questions I'm happy to What's your current thinking Around how to solve these Or how to improve gossip Which one of those? I guess number two Number two What we are trying to do right now Is some sort of direct routing So we are looking into topologies That these nodes could have together And look into what type of routing strategies We could apply to these topologies We are not going to eliminate gossiping Because we will be still there For a lot of parts of the protocol But for the parts that we are not going to send A specific data to everyone To do some direct routing There are a couple of topologies I mean the easiest would be Just to connect to everyone However if you have a large amount of validators That becomes a bit difficult There are topologies that are a bit more Less connected but still connected enough That I can say is pretty difficult So they are pretty less connected Have you looked at Discovery B5 For the article Discovery Discovery B5 have you looked at it As a way to do discovery The discovery was told to me to the right Left, I don't know But I will look into it I will ask you later on Thanks, did you find a guy called Felix Managing Who tries not to get any attention That's the procedure Okay Any other questions? Someone inside the Welfare Foundation Was working on Whisper No, not necessarily I was asking just like half a year ago It was announced in a little detail So we have a project That we are working on That is irrelevant to Procodon It's privacy preserving Messaging And there we looked into Whisper is going to be as a collaboration With status and validity labs But that's in parallel It's not related to Procodon That naming was bad Someone calling the Whisper 2.0 Okay I understood That answers my question Thank you Radical Which is a PDP network for code collaboration We launched Radical last year As a PDP code collaboration That's built on IPFS And we started the project With the belief that code collaboration Being centralized to one platform Is to Code collaboration is too critical To one platform As expressed in this tweet That I included in my presentation Specifically having all free And open source software Which is like critical to all of the functioning Technical infrastructure Globally right now So we are inspired by Existing decentralized protocols Networks like SSB, DAT Everybody who is here Speaking today We tried to learn from other previous attempts To basically secure an offline first And terminal native alternative To centralize code collaboration It's super cool It integrates with distributed version control systems Like Git, includes a high level language For reprogrammable semantics PDP network For sharing application states Super awesome for repeated state machine language And flexible command line tools So basically makes code Collaboration of primitive And is building an entirely peer to peer Experience that occurs Experimentation about How we work and develop together But what I'm here to talk about In the last three minutes of my talk Is how code collaboration is more than just Code and what we're exploring Beyond peer to peer code collaboration At Radical So I think it kind of Is embodied in this tweet Like code collaboration is more Than code network effects are a thing There's a reason why most code Is not on GitHub right now And I had a really funny slide here That says this Peer to peer and blockchain kind of Have this like awkward relationship But we think At Radical we are exploring how Blockchain can make code collaboration A transcendental experience Because we think that FOS Is a really great design space For adaptive coordination I mean it's really common based Peer production at its core Distributing coordination, collective ownership And communal stewardship of value So secure and offline first Is peer to peer, that's what we built With Radical Stack, but now we're exploring What it is to have a community owned And crypto native peer to peer code Collaboration network with blockchain So blockchain adds a bunch of things That I cannot talk about in this one talk So please come talk to me after about all of this But for example what could code Collaboration be if we have verified wallets That allow direct peer to peer code Ecosystem stewardship Through block rewards, through inflation funding What if we had inter and inter dependency Graffing between projects, maintainers And communities, so we can understand How we distribute value from systems We don't have to rely on building a business Bottle for FOS and we can instead Create a sustainable economy under Free and open source software And also what if we had a global project registry Of FOS projects allowing global Canonicity and discoverability So those network effects that make For a really awesome security layer That audible and tamper proof project histories Kind of up the security that we can have On any centralized platform So all this shit is really really cool And we're exploring it at Radical And really we really think that code Collaboration will bring about Our new vision of what is free And open source sustainability By enable trustless workflows Borderless value exchange and global Canonicity and those network effects That people think is only Prone to get help. So cool Come find me, my name is Abby I'm on Twitter at Abby Tick Home We're not doing a talk but I'll be around So please come talk to me, we're going to be building this Really soon, so I'd love to talk To all of you guys. What about the What about the DAO What about the DAO Conversation that we're going to be having? Oh yes So I'm hosting a workshop personally That's called Beyond DAOs, that's actually in This is like what it's about That's really great that this is already here Our workshop tomorrow at 3.30 We're going to be diving into DAOs as a design space for experimentation So I would love to have you guys All here. It's on my Twitter I have been shitposting about it For the last few weeks Thanks guys I'm Michael from 3box Four minute lightning talk is too fast To cover everything but We'll touch on the important things, cool So as The IPFS team mentioned, 3box is building Identity and data tooling for P2P apps and really Some of the needs we address in the market How do we bring P2P systems To blockchain users and Developers and let them together Create better applications I'll skip this and so yeah We built a framework and really at the core Of 3boxes An identity protocol And developer tool, so these two components Together allow us to connect to IPFS storage that lives on top of Or below distributed databases And connect those to blockchain wallets And so really We looked at the needs of daft devs to start building And people really That want to implement a serverless P2P architecture Really also just want to build useful engaging apps Because they still need users And so on the other side of that Looking at the needs of users They really don't care about the tech Just sort of what they can do with it And so We built this framework But more importantly, let's talk about this Cool, so the decentralized identity stack Really what we wanted to do Is utilize the existing wallets That people already have So if you have MetaMasker, if you have all these different mobile wallets How can we let those Connect into and control user data That's stored on the distributed web So our first implementation is Orbit TV instances that run on IPFS But really We can abstract these and sort of let Users control and connect to Many different database types On different storage systems And so here we designed this protocol Which really enables this So it's like an access control encryption Data organization protocol That allows many different Accounts and keys to connect To the same ID Which is actually what authorizes Data on these systems And so all the other stuff we built We have SDKs So if you're a developer, you can use Your box SDK to do all of these things So it makes identity easy Authentication, user profiles For social interactions Generalized storage for Output content specific data And messaging And to make it even easier If you're lazy, we have A hub which is already an out-of-the-box Profile application Profile Hover which is a drop-in component That is like Twitter when you hover over a name For profile info Comments which I can demo It's just a commenting plugin Built on decentralized systems And chat box An identity wallet is actually What wallet developers implement To add 3ID to their system And kind of like ties it all together We just talked about this Identity wallet SDKs Like why would you do this This is actually what implements 3ID Kind of like Web3J Theory and protocol Identity wallet does for 3ID So it sort of works the same way You can support identity with existing keys It works in different contexts React Native, Node.js Can support different Transports between wallets and apps Like Wallet Connect or Directing the Browser Yeah, and it's more secure For signing keys Cool. So here's how you Build apps with 3box There's really like three different models For identity wallet So it's either self-containing Or if you're actually hosting it for your users You can do something like this Where you implement identity wallet And 3box.js If it runs in a browser And the browser is facilitating communication Such as like MetaMask It's also running that MetaMask would implement identity wallet SDK And would pass the provider To the app that's integrated with 3box.js And apps with external wallets That uses Wallet Connect or some other Transport to connect to an application Yeah, here's some plugins They look cool, make it really easy to build And that's probably all we have You can make a profile Thanks Okay, so I'm Actually proposing something But I'm basically a blockchain DoT researcher So today I'm going to share one proposal That appeared on research board Which is someone proposed to Bitcoin and routing on Ethereum It's not my proposal So who am I? I'm Jun Chu From Taiwan Taipei I'm a blockchain DoT researcher So I basically Do a bunch of different Researchers including consistent protocols And fortunately one of my articles Is tweeted by Vitalik like one week ago And it's a talk about Casper MFG Explainer So it's pretty awesome So Yesterday I just published an article That talked about privacy blockchain and routing So today I'm going to share a bit about it So why do you care about privacy And anonymity So people sometimes confuse about these two ideas Privacy is something That people know who you are But they don't know what you're doing But anonymous is the other way around It's like people don't know who you are But they know what you're doing So anonymity Is why I'm kind of too explained to you today So It's actually Something to do with if you're a like client Because it's pretty critical to sharding In sharding we don't want any node to store all the data So we have to explain the node into two rows One is the full node Which is the first process to store all the data And the other one is like client But the problem is how can you prove That data is available On the full nodes So one solution You put the proofs And the node Who is supposed to do that On the smart contract So the third party can access the smart contract And send transaction And then For the contract to prove the data ability So But that's a problem So the solution is that The problem is that The full node probably can just censor the black client So the solution to that Is to make the black client anonymous Thank you And so this game is to use the iron rally So this is how the iron rally circuit Constructs So basically you have to Choose the field Hops So these are basically the Ethereum nodes So you have to like Contract this circuit one by one And what's special here Is that it's not Just There's no connection to keys But they're actually using some Verified random functions To generate a random number here And then so That the random number is unpredictable To the next relay So they each generate one random number At the time and find out the field of circuit So as you know it's actually anonymous To Basic to anyone So this is the full node So the full node doesn't know Basically protect the censorship attack Right that's it So I hope this really Pretty quick Interaction can help you to Take more on this concept Thank you I'm Alex Brown and I work at Xerox I'm here to talk about how we use WebAssembly to enable Peer-to-peer trading in the browser Xerox is a protocol For decentralized exchange You can use to trade digital assets Including ERC-20, ERC-721 You can trade digital assets with anybody in the world And trust this way Xerox protocol Features An off-chain relay and on-chain settlement So what that means is that you share Orders Offers to buy or sell some assets With people off-chain And then when it comes time to settle the orders You go on-chain and use smart contracts To do trust and sell Xerox Mesh is a way to Exchange orders in a totally Decentralized Peer-to-peer fashion It allows users to share orders Directly with each other using a Peer-to-peer network As opposed to The alternative today which is using a centralized service To collect orders And aggregate them all together Xerox Mesh is written in Go And we decided to use WebAssembly Which allows us to have an isomorphic app Which is written in one language We can compile Xerox Mesh to run in the browser Or to run as A stand-alone node More like a backend server There are a couple of reasons for this We think that GoLibP is the original implementation Of LibP-to-P is a lot more active Also some smaller factors are more familiar With language Get better performance, characteristics, portability And better tools The cool thing is that most LibP-to-P components Work right out of the box Everything that is listed here In the WebAssembly Works in the browser right away Without any additional changes Things like auto-nan, auto-relay And gossips And a number of other things There are really only two components That we needed to make modifications for In order for them to run in the browser The first is the transport layer So LibP-to-P in transport is A network like TCP And messages with your peers So what we've done is we wrote WebAssembly bindings For the WebSocket transport in LibP-to-P That's already done There's a PR that's open We're ready to be merged upstream But we're already using it in our own applications We're also working on adding Support for WebRTC transports So WebRTC can enable two Browser-based peers to dial each other Directly without relying on Really node The other major component that we had to replace Was the storage layer So what we're doing is we're using LevelDB We added WebAssembly bindings For LevelDB Just replacing the underlying storage component After we did that everything worked pretty well LibP-to-P already has support For using LevelDB as the data store So we just had to put the pieces together We wrote the browser we used Something called BrowserFS On top of local storage So all this boils down to A single TypeScript Library on MPM That users can download To build applications on top of Mesh It's super easy It feels like you're using any other TypeScript or JavaScript library Hopefully if we have time I'm going to do a really quick demo A lot of minutes left So I have to give a disclaimer Which is that The internet here is really wonky I'm currently going through my phone A hotspot connection but hopefully it'll work The browser is running Mesh It's running WebAssembly We're hopefully connecting to the DHT And finding peers to connect to And if that process goes smoothly We'll start to see 0x Orders coming in We're just going to log about two months I had a hotspot for you Yeah? I'm using my hotspot Hopefully we're really really out of time But it's a great teaser For you know We have a backup video method So I just took this This is Hi, I'm here to talk briefly About IPLD This is one of the interplanetary Family of projects The IP is for interplanetary The LD is for linked data The IP part Just shared identity With the IPFS project And also of course part of the vision statement We want to build Data structures and linking conventions Which are good for when we're building applications That work at extremely high latency Offline interplanetary Galactic whatever So to build data structures For distributed applications on the scale We need to get a couple of things That are kind of agreed upon And foundational concepts figured out So one of those is of course Merkleization and linking That's such a gimmie in this audience I'm not even going to talk about it anymore Of course we need to hash things Let's just do it IPLD are some specs for how to do the thing Since we want to talk about data structures The other thing we have to figure out Is what indeed is a data structure And so in IPLD We're going to sort of aim for Eventually getting towards data definition languages Like imagine schemas for databases But now for decentralized Serialization concepts But that's going to be the aim And we're actually going to start somewhere a little simpler In IPLD We want some sort of common data model That works regardless of how you're going to serialize things And regardless of the application logic You're about to bring on top of it So maybe serialization Oranted thinking about the data model But not like implementation Defined so we want to have a model Which feels like JSON So we can reason about maps and lists And strings and so on Defined by the white for white serialization problems Of JSON So we should be able to bring something like C-BOR And have it mapped to the same data model Or JSON, what you do want to debug Or a proto buff when you want like this other strategy entirely That is pretty fast We should be able to use all of these things interchangeably This is what IPLD is about Standardizing this data model Making it connect to everything Codecs should be able to come and go from here as they please Now once we have This data model We can build concepts, maps and lists And we can build functional operations On top of these Any kind of traversal and folds Or selections that you've ever heard of From any functional program language We're trying to write a standardized way to do this On top of this data model So if you have any structure That you can map into the data model With your serialized formats Then we can give you a bunch of libraries For these traversals and folds and so on On top of all this We are now trying to also build Schemas which allow you to have a blend Of the way you interact with your data Add names to types even if you don't serialize The schema free data and Schemas at the same time Wow That's it Thank you for giving me A few minutes to give Our research I'm a researcher from Tokyo Tech, Tokyo Institute of Technology So I'm really in Japan and Thank you The product is blockchain network research And I give you a demonstration Of our product NAMC blockchain Is a Permitless blockchain Network simulator So you see now Between As of 2015 And we are dating Internet parameter For as of today So anyway You see many dots Of course they represent Between nodes And drawings Are communications of blocks Transmitted between nodes And Why did we develop this kind of software? And it's very Easy to find this Demonstration page by searching The keyword With SIM You can access and see On your browser And now Let me Go to my Talk Our goal is Of course performance And we are doing research on Security And we give a talk About security research About Ethereum In Thursday Writing talk session In Thursday evening So Here Our Session And this slide is about the simulator This is a Public blockchain network So first target Was Bitcoin, Litecoin Of course Ethereum And as I said We did a talk about that Thursday evening And we Provide a visualizer And we provided demo And so Let's write if you do Blockchain network research By yourself It's easy to find on GitHub And you can change it Thank you Let's say We'll do like 25 minutes In small groups 25 minutes In small groups And then We'll come back and report back For Back 20 minutes So for the small groups We just like Popcorn off so like raise your hand and say something About like a topic that you'd like to discuss So One topic I would just like to put on for myself Is Network Like So like Networking like DHT Like live P2P These kinds of things Search indexing Indexing Indexing Funding Funding Okay Any other topics you want to discuss? Browsers That's a good topic Building browsers Or working with browsers P2P and browsers Yeah That's very annoying Hardware Hardware So where's the list? Hardware? Running nodes Like Why do we use the run nodes? Actually a lot of people have left now Data availability What about like the social Data availability Data availability Two Right? Really? Do you want more? How much more do you want? This is good Should we get more granulins? I don't know if you would end up with people There's actually a lot of people here that I expected So we could probably just do it As a big group Yeah I think so Yeah let's do it like a big group We just want to get closer Don't be shy Don't be shy Of course Maybe I'll put it Yeah if anyone wants to Maybe Or take Sorry We can have someone take stack People raise their hands and want to talk Make sure people are talking at the same time Should we stick to the classroom? Yeah we can pass a sticker on Like that red pen I've got a couple rules First thing if you want to talk next Put your single hand up If you want to interject Say that again One hand to talk Next If you want to interject Put two hands up Say that again Cool That's nice I really liked that A lot of the talks had Social and political implications I really talked about Why their projects were important To the ecosystem Outside of just Theoretical stuff which is important also But there's real world implications For what everyone was talking about Yeah I would say that in countries In authoritarian countries Like in my country, Venezuela I've seen that there's a lot of people That are actually using A lot of peer to peer networks There's one that is called Lucha Network And you know these guys They have nothing They have no money So they're just building all this shit together You can find it on Twitter It's called Lucha Network And basically what you do is you use a mesh network And they're just communicating between them And also they're using it for Between transactions And I find it super amazing That these guys are doing this shit Because they're just trying to find Ways of communicating And avoiding the government But personally I was Targeted by the government In Venezuela when I was Doing a revolution kind of And Like the look on my social media The look on all my stuff So it's like Very important that we use this kind of network In order to communicate More importantly in these countries Where we don't have freedom It's more like a question Do you think that these systems work On the mobile? 100% Because they don't have computers How much does it cost a computer? $500, $700, $800 And a mobile phone costs $80 $90 So yes, it is super important And also in Africa In the African regions it is super important That we have this kind of connection Java 6 Sorry? Yes, Andre And also we have These kind of phones That are Very Light phones, they call it They're really cheap, like $40 $50 phones Chinese phones That's what people are using currently Doing a lot of mobile stuff In Ecuador and Peru And doing a lot of mobile stuff There Actually the issue is auto updating Sometimes There's different firewalls This actually happened in real life We were about to do a deployment In Ecuador doing training Some of the phones have updated To Android 10 or whatever Whatever it was They had some new firewall things So they didn't connect To the MTS That was the issue For me it would be very This is called customer adoption That's the point For me, out of this workshop I would like to have a small list Of things that would be helpful To the P2P projects themselves Which is like Maybe funding is answered to everything But probably there are more things falling back For example I am a developer And I want to create a mobile app Do I just randomly Jump into Whichever project has better documentation At the time? Or is there a source of truth somewhere Is that going to be the white block report Of which stack actually works And works at which scale Where do I go to orientate myself Around how do I create those things That actually works For me, I know how you would even call that And maybe you guys disagree Maybe there is a place in the web like that I just don't know about That for me would be interesting But in general This is one of my points But the bigger one is Who has ideas for what is actually Holding the P2P projects back Because we've been at it for a long time By the way I really like Carissa's talk That there was 1.6 million since 2013 Right? But that's in money And I'm also wondering If you tried counting contributors time And also like There's first qualified people So their time is worth a lot So how do we actually quantify that Who was waving most You have to make full stop So I don't think A web book report can help you that much But I think this is something that The community needs to have Like your partner level things Because it's not just your app Socials and economic incentives You can get help things For example Polkadot is a very good choice If you want to have a creative stand Or a pub You just want to have your own bar chain So you can put a lot more there You can set a bunch of rules You can put whatever is out there That's a good idea It will be between investments to understanding That you are now tied to You can change You can change Your current version song So I think it's Something about And it's not over many And I think we can see the mobile Change because apps And app needs will drive More mobile changes with different Versions Yeah, if you want to I just wanted to say that I'm not even talking about blockchain that much Because there are very strong economic incentives For blockchain projects So that I think you mentioned Where I'm going to go on the web I'm talking about more Projects like that And things like that Someone actually asked On the telegram How can I get started on mobile Yeah, this kind of Such a place where people go to For new developments It's just easier So I just really wanted to ask So did I get your question right So your question was like How do I think like For my application Is that what you were asking or was that I'm thinking about So what is holding B2P projects back So like if there are more developers Building on it, more developers are going to be contributing And like thinking about barriers For developers to use it Like developer on morning can know What's up, it's like one of them You want to in the afternoon Test something in 60 to 90 minutes And have something working And that's not the experience That you're going to have With most of these projects At least not in an easy way, right So I think where do I go to orientate myself And not research the project myself Does it make it possible that The problem is the business models Because usually you're trying to Lock the information And this is how you monetize And beautifully monetize So I see this as a problem Why developers are not adopting on it Which I might move in a way But yeah It works Thanks, monetization I don't want to be accused By the question Or actually the whole thing Are we just discussing the Yeah, we decided to get to the small groups Because it's like not Actually like Small enough We'd rather do like small groups I was just curious about what What the goal was to Yeah, I feel like right now Since we were like listening to so many talks It feels like To just chat To just like debrief And maybe discuss But if people would like Do you have a different idea? No, no, I'm just curious I'm just trying to like grasp The current situation Do you think that people Just need better documentation To answer To answer your question What's your question? For me this is a complex finding Commission And I actually don't know This is why I'm asking Like you know Season to feed to people As I view this right Is it worrisome that like The barrier to entry To like work on these things Is very Has like a Sort of like a privileged Feeling Why? Everything is like Has really big words I feel like there are a lot A lot of it We've had this discussion before I've had this discussion several times I haven't actually Yeah, go ahead In the back you can talk to I So You can always Technology Yes, they have lots of big words They're also really complicated Big words are a Not really factor So you can dump things down To like Use specific Less specific terms But it's not going to Resonance So then it's like Then it's a documentation problem It's not going to It's a documentation So there's A lot of like There's a lot of stuff You need to know So yes You can document it But But You're going to have to train And train to actually Do it first I think one thing We should do here is Highlight areas That require less knowledge And then to like Guide people through To like Getting all the words That you can actually Alright, is anything ready for us? Yeah, yeah So I think I understand The question was better now And the question was basically Like what is holding Peter P. back It was more that And less like It wasn't really like The up-developer perspective So one problem that I think Is It's pretty core To the whole issue Is that Peter P. Just Doesn't seem to be able to just Pick A single person Like go with it So there is Like people are constantly making Application-specific Networks in a way that are Incompatible And And there's a lot of politics And it's a bit like communism Right? Like I mean Everybody who is into communism Like it's really into communism But They can still Totally disagree about You know Like Trotsky over here Like it's They just don't get along Like internally I feel like it's the same with Like a lot of Peter P. discussions Where there's like So many opinions And like technology Is it using But they're all like Slightly different And it's just really weird That I feel would be much easier If like we could just You know like All do the same thing But somehow that doesn't work either So Like oh So many people Okay Yeah One Particular problem My personal experience Is that I find it really hard To compare existing projects And To kind of design decisions Or trade-offs That they are making So I mean I'm familiar with some of them But some others I'm not familiar enough For example When I think I'm Olympic to be I'm not too familiar With all the design decisions And how they compare To other systems And what they do And I think there's To my knowledge At least not like In comparison I'm not talking about Just like A table where you mark Some features But maybe some more Quality description That explains The reasoning behind it Maybe that's also Because of like The funding Do you have What do you say Projects Implementation And different languages Would you be To be versus some others Yeah I mean There's Project SSB Or something like What is it Radical Or in certain dimensions SSB Or inspired Or straight up And different features Or why Why people decide To do it in different ways It would take A lot of time For each individual To read To all of them To compare them So that would be Very useful Please Did you want to Yeah Let me just I have to leave So I just want To throw a quick note On my two cents Coming from A non-developer Perspective But now Diving into the PDP world One of the We keep talking about Value Proposition And central lines Networks It's quite obvious But that doesn't mean That they aren't Able to capture Value Right So like When we keep talking About Like security Convenience over security How people are Always going to Take convenience And they don't Think that That's actually True I think that We can start Finding design Spaces And people Experiencing Problems That resonate With those Problems And I was Can say something That was relevant To this And I Completely forgot So now My thought Is kind of Yeah Okay Yeah Girl Yeah Go ahead So like The introduction I wanted to make Was continuing Actually on that point But there Were particular Use cases That we can use As frames For this Like an example That's very precise Like It needs certain properties To be able To find these cases Just getting a sense In those contexts Of like What the differences In trade-offs are Using different types Of systems I think Like providing those Source of examples Would be useful Just in Trying to find These broader Comparison Or survey And escape Of like Your systems Yeah Just Directly on that Yeah And probably With each other So Unless they're Directly Like using Hyper-core and not And so But I think that In some ways That's a benefit Because the project Can then Succeed In its goals So like Not use It's like Kind of Going this Design path Where you start With the design Of like What are the Requirements For the app And then you pick Yeah And then That doesn't have That big fan So then they come up But like I think that When you're Doing this Unfortunately It's like Currently You have to Have an understanding Of distributed systems And have Some computer Science background So like Really name These like Properties Of the database Of the network you want And then You find Which tools You need Did you go first? Yeah So like You can Build a building Within a certain Design space Which is Creating a computer Network for Open source Projects to Collaborate on code That is like You can easily Create a list Of design requirements But it's so interesting Because we're looking To scuttle blood Because we're trying To understand How people have Designed before To inform The design Of our actual Network And so We're learning Of each other For example Like how many hops Do we need to go With our projects Scuttle blood Is following So you can see the post We just need to Access the repo So we can pull the code So it's like Really interesting To start seeing What's overlapping And I think That there could be A lot more information Share how these Networks are designed Before Besides just like Scraping through Documentation You know Yeah So like You also think If you talk about Large zone Because There's a talk By Dean I commend It's called Ultra light beam Check it out It's a beautiful It's called Ultra light beam It's great hope So check it out I mean If you guys are game Like what Is kind of This neutral zone Right now In place For a long time If you want us To help Kind of Get everybody In the same room And centralize All sorts of Like feedback Comments So presently You can also Do a published report With everybody In the room Collaborate on that With That's of interest That's also a thing I don't want to push that Yes So maybe one thing That we're Sorry You want to go first? I've been wanting to go For a short second So I just wanted to Clearly I don't think that It's necessarily important For interoperability But modularity And I think a lot of The protocols are already Designed Okay That's all So I actually think that Like modularity is kind of Like Not a good thing But I don't want to get into that I think modularity is Like Everything more difficult But Let's That thing layer So About the Like choice system So one problem That I see is that It's not easy to Like Like if you're Building a network protocol Then usually The place you go to Is like RFCs And you can just Like There's so many RFCs You can read them all You can read about like How the internet is made And how Some things are made On the internet That maybe aren't Even in use anymore Or like What the thinking was Like Way back when Like just recently For example I think like Two days ago It was really interesting Like what I can use About like The pool is plus Plus protocol And actually I thought that That was insane I went into this It was like I wasn't really aware of it But the cool thing is It was defined in an RFC like Years ago And I could I could still read about it And I could actually I was like Oh yeah They had some interesting issues And you know Like these issues That were really relevant And like Some of the system That they built there For example It was really similar To what people are Building today It was basically about Like indexing Identity information You know like It was It was just There's no Sort of like Repository for like All the PDP documentation For example And this is just about Like basic techniques You know like Things that you have Like everyone who goes In the PDP Has to learn about All that stuff Over and over again And then like Eventually you'll discover Like oh There was this There's this super cool Software project That you know I didn't even know about And they have They have this awesome way Like Handling that Or you know Like these kinds of things Because we're not We need academia We're just You know like People mostly from Commercial software development I guess It's like It's very productized The whole thing Like you're always talking about Like what's my product What does my product do How is my product constructed Even the product of the source But this I think what PDP is missing Is like Standards Like things that aren't Related to any product in particular You have a bit of a standard Do you want to Yeah I suggest As long as we've won like The W3C Yeah PDP Then I suggest you create Yeah it's a lot of open source And it's like And then have you ever Been to a W3C meeting It's hard Like Well we're trying it with like Apps Also No no no That's just hysteria But it's like The theory only has Eaps Yeah that's Oh You know It's the only thing we have So like I think I think that You bring up a good point And we should do it And it could be It's a lot of work Yeah And Living This is also You want to get paid So I mean Yeah Who's going to fund that Or who's going to volunteer Your time You know I mean I'd be cool to Figure that out If you wanted to Yeah I think the panel The panel is waiting Next to you It's perfect Well Our project called Stream We're bidding out The new Network layer protocol Right And We're looking to peer To peer Since the beginning Like two years ago And as it was And we realized There was like A lot of design Yes trade off Or you know Assumption data It didn't work for us So In our I guess Broadmap We had to do Like a lot of Design specs Trade off You know Like a lot of research That As you know Mention And You know There's like a lot of resources In part A lot of Issues That I think like There might be like Come to an intuitive idea Like Doing like kind of those Like you know Standard Committees Like Knowledge sharing Not becoming productive Because it doesn't go back Monitor it Do you Think But it's like If you think How many Are there Four Sites Of In an ecosystem That we actually Are wasting more money On that side Of Doing that whole You know Rebuilding ourselves Of discussion That's it Which Yeah I want to think of it Maybe Depending on How much What we are That we have Creating like Product applications Any way Any project But now other projects that maybe have a different approach and work through that and also keeping that up-to-date to compare that. I think if there's no dedicated funding to make the kind of comparison work possible, then I personally feel this will never happen because I think it's a lot of work to actually compare those and keep it up-to-date and actually, also that basically that would help to probably inform all these different teams about the different decisions and be more aware of why certain projects do something and maybe that's often the case. Is it because there's no organization that is coordinating everything or like why? No, no, no, no, there doesn't have to be. I mean, I think theoretically, like an independent team that goes around interviewing and collecting data and keeps like a comparison and then everyone can read that and if they criticize it or have like issues with it, they can talk to the person about it. Yeah, we've kind of talked for 25 minutes on like challenges and it seems like we're kind of grab a hold on this one particular challenge of like user experience and like, you know, our ability to just pull into continuing this. I wonder also if you want to like, you know, change topics or if there's any other proposals, we can still go through like the last few people who want to speak. Yeah. But maybe, you know, if we have 20 minutes left, we can also talk, maybe pivot into- About solutions. Solutions of this particular problem potentially. I don't know how people feel. Yeah, yeah, that's a great picture. And we just want to move the conversation forward. No, no, no, no, just continue. Yeah, just continue. Just saying like, in like five minutes, say. Yeah. You know, I was just going to say that there's too many unsolved problems around keeping me in general and I think that's part of what, like to hold in your back and I think the spec, as it was mentioned, the specs are definitely more than like, right now look at an RFC and you can see how, you know, who it was possible to propose or like DCP or whatever. But the web prefrontation came after there was, you know, a browser and HTML and links and all of this. It's like, I think we're still before that stage, right? We're still trying to figure out the others, you know, a lot of things, right? I don't think we're at a point where it's, you know, just like, hey, let's just, you know, put it all in a nice, documented way and because we know how this thing works and there's just too many things we haven't yet figured out properly. I'm switching from filter. Yeah, like on that, like there's UDP, TCP, HTTP, like SSH, SCP, there's like all these different and my tools and I'm imagining the D1 that's going to be a ton of data. Right, and there's probably going to be a bunch of stuff that are going to be abandoned and forgotten and we are now super excited about it, but they're just going to come up and out or something like that. Did you have a response? Do you have a response? Yeah, so like, okay, so if I'm like a funding entity that wants to help me to be, right, grow or if I'm an engineer coming out right now wanting to join this space for maybe the logical reasons or whatever, like, where do I go for this list of the problems? Is the, for me, the head scratcher. Yeah, that's a great question. I don't think there's like a consolidated resource of what they're doing here, problems. Because I think you're right. I just think like it took you time to arrive at this conclusion. So how do we speed this up for people that want to join this space from outside where they're time-consuming? So, like, before I joined WebLock, I joined WebLock in the end of June. I actually built with a bunch of friends a more people, Delta, B2P, that we want to make by those three C1s. So now for me guys to do that. And the idea was like, we actually have some place where we can put IP on P2P in a neutral zone that is not attached to the corporate identity because it's been the biggest issue. Like, everybody has been kind of stepping into the technology with the C3. This is that there's a lot of innovation that we just need to just make public domain so that people can actually relate to it without thinking they're into a bit of a lock-in or that they're going to see down the road that I'm a problem. Frankly, we put that a little bit on the back burner just because we have a business to run. But we're very committed to that. The approach we take is similar to the FNC software foundation where we would elect people to be members of the organization that they'd elect to work so that it's completely decorated from us. Like, we started and then we let it go in a big push. And then we do replace these type of stuff to be just, it's interesting to see there's a need and demand for that. Kind of, I'm kidding, that's a bit of a corner of what we're looking for, but yes. Just a question, is there any place where all the peer-to-peer protocols or developers can talk to you? And there's conferences. Yes, right now. Data tyranny now is one. But no online space where everybody regularly meets. We should have probably an aggregator and at the same time a forum with all of us. I would say this is a minority. Like, you're not seeing a vast measure to a lot of stuff there. We've been talking to a lot of teams that don't even talk to you very much. No idea anything about it. I think there's a lot of innovation in get-to-peer and not even thinking about all the things we're thinking about right now. So there's still a lot of space where it's better than product and build their customers with themselves. Okay, we'll begin. Yeah, we've only had 20 minutes. Yeah, we have 20 minutes. I wanted to say is that please, before you leave the room, please take that shit that you're leaving behind with you, really. Okay. Sir, a bunch of you have entered the room and we have about 20 minutes left. So I wanted to transition to this discussion if you're okay with that. If we see maybe continuing on this discussion and thinking about what sort of like this kind of like peer-to-peer organization to centralize organization space would look like. What do you guys want to talk about that? Is that okay? Or do you have a solution? I'm in favor. That's all I want to say. Solution. So for the, there's a lot of people entering. So for all the people entering, we're just discussing, okay, I think you really love it. For the people entering, we're just discussing like the challenges of the peer-to-peer space. And one of the challenges we kind of honed in on was how you choose a tool set to build your peer-to-peer app. And then kind of went into like, well, everyone's kind of just trying to build apps and build their own product, build their app or have their things in open source. Running documentation is already a huge challenge alone for your own product, let alone like trying to compare it to other products that make it easy for new developers to get involved. So it's become also kind of a difficult space to enter for a lot of folks. And so we're trying to think about that's kind of the problem we're discussing and we're gonna go for the next 20 minutes into solutions. Proposal of just kind of like popping out solutions. Maybe it'd be cool to like maybe go around and see what people think about this and then we can have a discussion later or maybe we can have a happy hour. I think that the main problem is that we are building separately and we're not collaborating and we're not like integrating what other people are doing with art. The thing that I'm currently doing. So I think that's one of the main thing and that's why I said that we should probably have a diameter of all the DTP networks and at the same time rate them and that we put some kind of rating system there. I don't know, probably something like this could be useful. Yeah, I also imagine maybe sometimes maybe it's just people build different products or more systems and I think often times there might be reasons why a certain product does something differently but it's not so easy for somebody who's new to figure out why and they sit there and they see those products and they know they do the same but they do something differently but it's very hard to figure out all these aspects why are they doing it differently and then being able to think about if they really listen for that product. But maybe we should go around so it has a time limit, you know? Yeah, enjoy it. No, just go. I don't know, I have a feeling that it's a funding project problem because if there is more money that means that you can explain things more, you can communicate better, you can build better documentation, you can experiment better and also like when you're trying to use your technology, a lot of times if you want to get funding, like we are not creating, we are using that for example but then you have to, like people want you to use technology that is more popular because then it's easier to get funding so this is also kind of what we want to go around. Yeah, we'll just focus on solutions here and I'll start listing them off and I'll just start writing them so we can see. Yeah, we'll just go around. Well, maybe it's because we don't have we don't have a group or something that will receive that money. We don't have that organism, you know? Maybe we have a foundation for this or I don't know, I don't know what's the best but. But every project has a foundation or some, like every single project but not, I think it's not peer to peer. That kind of goes where you're saying about standards also. So yeah, what I think would be very helpful to resolve like some of these issues would be if there be some place to like publish these things and I know that like these places exist, you know, you could just go through like existing standards processes and there's certain things to the idea. For example, it's just that for a lot of people in the community also very like new to like internet development in general and might not actually, you know, like know how to get into these kinds of things. So it is a bit of a bootstrapping problem but just, you know, like you could either just form your own standards organization or you just go with an existing one but then somehow make it so that like, I mean, there are peer to peer working groups even with an idea for what you would have. What about doing a DAO? That's it? Go ahead. And I think it's now to implement this to document how to get started quickly but given the implementation. Yeah. So if you're starting with JavaScript or something like that, then your onboarding process is going to be completely different to that when you use a go on Java, what's the word? Okay, yeah, let's play. I know we've talked a lot about problems but I think in this section, we're going to try it for everyone who just entered. We're talking about solutions to the issue of like the fragmentation in the peer to peer space and how to make it easy for new people to get involved as well as like solve some of the questions around funding and standards and something like that. So to follow up, the solution is to have a very simple example project that you get going with that would be coming across every presentation. Cool. We're going to have 20 more minutes, huh? Yeah. Go ahead. They'll just pass it to the next person. I think, well first of all, I think it's fine that we have some level of fragmentation and experimentation and it's fine that we're trying out different things and but it's also useful to have a common place in some sort of an organization where this thing's right here and then. Eventually, the most successful and performant and et cetera, the solution is going to be adopted but I think we're at the stage where we still need to do this experimentation and that's right for me. Not necessarily a bad thing as well. Okay. Good. So wait, would be the solution? And the solution is to have an aggregator in place of an organization where we can standards, funding, et cetera. Yeah. Okay. I think. I'd like to. I'd like to say that get-to-get solution based on data solutions provides something. I mean, I imagine maybe for me, the quickest way that I could imagine is maybe the existing projects they maybe take all the talk to each other and agree that they can do a fraction of their funding to pull it together and say that some person, individual or maybe a small team goes, interviews or researches and tries to come up with this comparison and then if the teams agree, they just leave it from all their documentation, that particular get-to-get approval or whatever it is as just a quick way to start. So this is comparison. I have no idea. Maybe they could pull in funds and figure out what do we all now need and then build this missing part at least. Kind of like Moldova is doing too, right? I mean, does it need to be a towel? It doesn't need to be. Yeah, just in a way. Yeah, it doesn't need to be. Yeah. Yeah, bring it in front of you. Before Felix thinks out, so one thing that he's been working on this year is discovering mechanism that actually would work across all of the peer networks. We're discovering V5 with a lot of people to cast capabilities. So it's, in my opinion, this is popping up in any form, matter, like any form later. Because if we could bring this coming up, then we'd be the first to take a few days for offering that across all of the peer networks. Oh, sounded like a good one. Thanks for pitching my project. Did it leave you? Yeah. Like I said, I'm here for the next workshop, so... Let's go first. Let's go first. This is your workshop. Who's here for the next workshop? Okay, that's good, because like I was in the five-hour flight. I don't think a lack of funding was the main issue why this ecosystem of sharing didn't exist, because I think we have been some of the biggest fundings for open source projects, you know, ecosystem for a while. And also, I think you'd be very surprised how little we cost for each project to have just like a few people, even one or two like starting to update like a lot of those issues, right? And I mean, there's another problem in the world, which like each project, you know, I would include that. My always think like we want to implement the best of assets of our project, you know, product order, but we get adopted. So, you know, like there's like not a lot of incentive to share right away. We do want to share later after the fact because then you get a lot of PR and all the credit. But before the fact is, of course, there's always conflict. But at the same time I think like it does help each project of the month. And the biggest issue I saw is not what a lot of projects implemented or the design process did. The result of it, but more like what are the options that you saw, that you refuse or you know, eliminate it and why, right? Like actually that's the learning part that is like a very rich, like that's so we don't go down to the same by the whole like everybody did because no one explained why they didn't choose like or something. So my years like, if we just come up with like initial proposal cost and how do we split them on all the project, I think like everybody would be very surprised how small it is then. So to share learning. But that's the biggest part, like that every, I can't say, a lot of projects for you. Yeah. I was going to say I sort of did it, the calculations in my head you might have something out like with two people for six months I had a pretty good report. Yeah. We got 15 more minutes. 15. What is it called? How I'm pushing. How I'm pushing. I would just go. It's funny. Exactly, you know. Being close to the last person. Wait, let's get a little more like what do you think about the Dow idea? It's illegal to have own ether in the state of Hawaii. So, yeah. It's illegal to own ether in the state of New York. And as well, predicaments are illegal in some states. In my country, it's illegal and we don't give a fuck. You want to do something that's sustainable? This is not a situation in which I want to be like oh, I don't give a fuck. This is a situation in which I live in a house. Yeah, but we need to build stuff. I want to build stuff. We can talk about this over dinner or something there. I've got a channel. Yeah. Just to quickly interject on that, I think the Dow is potentially interesting, but I would say we should probably start more generally just defining what the mandate would be. I think we should find a lot of pieces here with the particular like what really means different types of standards or what is the interpretation of what is an initial and important or what is the system. Those are things that are in my mind of priorities ahead of the Yeah, I was going to say I'll add something to the list instead of consulting, but I really think having just an initial scan of the community and funding that through the community so like the projects that have a lot more money to spend, like maybe they can pitch in like 10 or 30k to pay for someone to work on this for a few months it's not that much for them. So I would say maybe like an initial report and maybe also like so maybe it's like an investigative report that comes out with like some docs maybe and then like an event like get everybody in the room in the same room again in like a year or six months and maybe an additional event a possible additional event, yeah sharing road maps or sharing a road map I mean, road maps, is this a thing? Opening up priority communications community Yeah Like even if it just means like I'm going to start streaming our bi-weekly stand-ups or whatever that we do, our you know, our spread findings I think advertising and the progress and the currents and already the technologies you already have in this field will help you find the real problems out of this list first and then the funding So what was the first part? You should just understand what you have Advertise what you have More user help but like I guess just to go back to the problem section I think what a lot of people have raised was that a project can't necessarily or doesn't necessarily have time or while prioritized often that sort of work because they're already getting clients or something so they're already getting paid to do other things that aren't that so it's kind of like sometimes it's hard to do so docs are always de-prioritized So extra funding could help because then somebody could focus on this Docs on Let's go ahead Yeah So That's I'm sorry Some companies have some knowledge that they share that they share that they attend to understand the quality of the product and all that kind of solution We need all the ideas to generate from this field to the solution and search into particular problems a little bit again So that's the question what we do that can also be a question and maybe some people that's why we first and I'm not saying that it can be a proof that a particular solution solves some actual questions So we find that it's like a bit of a valuable care approach quite some particular issue Yeah, it's like kind of like questionnaire interviewing Yeah, I mean I know like more like you can have like this is the system here and we found this particular solution more about to get to the solution actually solve this particular problem and many so first we find the solution that creates a real issue to get some kind of media Yeah, we need a few more minutes but let's go in the background and talk as it was like Anyone else? Talk to Thons Talk to Thons Talk to Thons Talk to Thons, talk to Thons Talk to Thons, talk to Thons Everyone likes to write code We don't need a hackathon, we need a dog club, yes Read the docs, write the docs I have a favorite class I think like after listening to this presentation you might be one of the most easily I guess conservative project I've seen because I'm always like since you have like everybody's contact would you be able to do like an estimate of like you know resource time and cost and then just share with everyone so we can maybe come to agreement like let's give like 3-6 months to try out everybody teaching and like start from there that might be the best Yeah, there's a there's like a document Yeah, I think many of us have this scenario Yeah, we're gonna create a telegram group and we're gonna create I don't know, great to have more to do some of these things Oh, you mean what time today? Thank you very much See you on the internet