 Hello, I was I was doing my summit cosplay before we were sure I forgot. Hello What's up guys? Welcome to classicast Season two episode two. I am here with stay safe and Asmongold who is on his own stream right now I just told him we're up. We're getting started and I figured we'd go ahead and Start make sure we're good to go with him You can see him talking talking about mounts or whatever. Yeah, I think he's stuck in a rant about mounts Yeah, he's taken Asmongold Hey, we're um Blinks in the wrong place. Oh, no, this is uh, this is Asmongold and this is stay safe. That's what's happening So let's go and flip those as well. I am Asmongold. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, stay safe stuck in a rant So guys good to see you guys We are here for classicast Season two episode two very very excited it is Very exciting day for a lot of us because I think a lot of people are thinking that it's it's probably beta day definitely here in the next Could be definitely definitely this week in the next few days so Yeah, we are we're very excited to talk about it and that's gonna be the main focal point of today's today's show So that's I bet one of my mods a hundred gifted subs that it's gonna come out today He has to give me a hundred or if it doesn't if it doesn't come out this week Then I have to gift a hundred to a channel of his choice. So we're talking amaran. Hello like that. Oh Hey, what's up, dude? We got audio. We got we got video. It looks like everything's working. Good. We got So ahead and set mine up real quick. Yeah should be good here. Yeah, go ahead I was basically, you know, we were just starting the show and Kind of talking about what the focal point of today's show is gonna be and it's what's on everybody's mind is TPC beta I think a lot of people think it's gonna happen here in the next couple of days Either today tomorrow, I don't do you guys know I don't know no you guys I'm gonna be honest. I don't think Blizzard knows Even if they think they know they probably don't because there's probably a lot going on behind the scenes where they're just not really Sure exactly how things are gonna go and that's probably why they are That's probably why they don't put a date out for it I remember whenever they put a date out for the classic release. I was actually really surprised about that Do you guys remember that? Yeah, I feel like I feel like the I feel like them doing that was a product of hey This is a big launch and yeah to make sure people know Because what happened with that is we had myself stay safe and tips actually got invited out to go like test it before Yeah, it released like a week earlier and we had to sign the NDA and we couldn't say anything Yeah, we didn't get an NDA or anything like that this time. So I don't know I think I think it's probably gonna be something that's not so much of an issue is Them like just waiting on an NDA or anything like that. I think it's just gonna be they're gonna release it Just like they do every other Shadowlands beta and stuff like that because I don't think they give like a 24-hour notice, right? So if it comes out tomorrow, they'd tell us today kind of situation Don't you think I would hope so like I'd hope to have a 24-hour notice because I remember yesterday So we were doing the show and Yesterday just out of nowhere people were able to download the beta. I don't know if you guys saw that It's like so as found out I were doing this event and it was literally I I took a break and I was hearing people are downloading the the ptr the beta for For tbc and I was freaking out. I was like, oh my what am I gonna do? What should I do? Should I log on play all night? Like I didn't know how to handle it and Need to leave warm do we need to get a second PC and just set it up at my house? Yeah, the charity we're going home It was great though that the charity event was awesome. I mean the last couple days for I think for everybody involved right like otk community and Everything in case you guys weren't watching it. Why why I'm clean shaven. I clean shave for the charity. It was one of the charity goals. So We're at $600,000 because of you guys. I didn't watch how much did it cost to get you to shave Uh, it was it was the $600,000 goal was the most. Oh, yeah. It was the highest here That's why we reached it because everybody just really wanted to see that happen. Yeah. Yeah Well, actually what what really happened was thanks It's uh, it was a lower goal and we ended up changing it because azman stream popped the hell off And I that blew everybody's expectations out of the water. So we're like, okay, well Let's just put some of let's let's put more azman's goals like while he's on his stream Let's do that and then we'll just wait and we'll do it as the first goal on my stream. So Yeah, uh, yeah, I ended up being 400k But uh, no, it was great. It was awesome. Uh, all that stuff went great and now we're just ready for TBC beta and there's a lot to talk about especially with this news from yesterday I think yesterday we we uh, like you said asman like we got the news and it was just like, okay You know what now they're talking about potential storm mounts and There's there's the beta is live the beta is not live. It's a bug people who already had it downloaded so, uh, we are definitely going to get into the mount thing and um Actually, let's go ahead and lead off with that because that's spicy. Well first the mountain Okay, yeah It was an accident it was an accident that this got put on the launcher I actually never I was sleeping when this happened So I never saw it or downloaded it But it was a mistake and then with the mistake people datamined there was a mount on the mount shop, right? That's what happened Um, no, it was I think these were actually two separate things Where actually maybe maybe you could be right. Maybe you could be right about that But they it was datamined the mount was datamined from the burning crusade server and not from a shadow land server So it was it's in the game files somewhere in the burning crusade client Yeah, so it was it was datamined from a client that I guess wasn't supposed to be pushed or it was supposed to be pushed And it was pushed early and we don't really know the difference Uh, I I think either way this is something that like from a community perspective and and even myself It just doesn't really make a lot of sense, right? It's not something that Really fits in line with what classic is and all that and we can we can really delve into it But um, just you know, you know who I've seen I've looked in the forums You know, who's the most mad about this mount are Shadowlands players that are mad. Maybe tbc players are going to have a cool mount to buy I notice that too. They're not going to get in the shadowlands. Yeah I was like, no, trust me if there's a way for blizzard to Maximize their store mount profit. They will do it. There's no way they're not going to Make it available for everybody. Let's be honest. Yeah, I think uh, Well, I gotta ask with classic was there any bonus in retail for getting 60 in classic or anything like that Like hit 16 vanilla and then you get a retail I thought they had something I wasn't there something that you got then you get like a boost in the shadowlands or bfa or no I didn't happen. Okay. No, it didn't happen because nothing they wanted to do There was like rumors about something like that, but I think that actually didn't happen It was a rumor. I think it happened on the chinese servers. I think it was in china. It happened Oh, maybe it did. I'm not sure in china like they're they have a totally different team in china I think a lot of people don't know that so yeah, something happens in china and people think it's coming to na servers And and that's not necessarily the case Um, well, they have a completely different culture even to yeah, like it's just how they how they do gaming and everything Um, let's ask summit summit. What do you think? uh, no for real though. I um I think that with the the the whole idea of doing something cross This this was actually something that happened early on a lot of people talked about that and it's why no changes even became a thing was people wanted to They were going so far one way with it that the whole no changes thing was super far the other way because people are talking about transmog Some sort of cross Retail classic stuff where it's like, okay, you get an item in retail and then or in classic and then it goes to your Retail transmog and it's like, okay. Well, what about these items that aren't in the game anymore? Sure, I get that people want that but it kind of hurts the exclusivity and why those are such a special item for transmog and all that stuff um They they took a pretty hard stance against that or the community did and blizzard kind of they agree and they're like Yeah, that doesn't really make a whole lot of sense Now they have addressed that there are things that need to be changed and That's something that now people I think understand You kind of have to account for the times or even make changes to account for other changes that they just have to make or The thing the way things have developed in the in the future Or I guess now I think that a lot of it was kind of like the argument that they had with It was the argument they had With the boost because the boosts were obviously different I turned my camera off my camera keeps dying over and over Is like the boosts were kind of the reason why people are okay with it is because there are so many mage boosters in the game And because there are so many mage boosters in the game What ends up happening is that the idea of leveling up your character legitimately in classic wow just isn't a thing anymore It's just not the case So I think that's a huge reason why a lot of people were okay with the boost But the funny thing about the no changes thing is that even the people that were hashtag some changes for classic wow Store mounts weren't one of them. Yeah, I think the store thing is a real issue Anybody's idea of what the game is supposed to be Well, and I think one of the biggest problems store mounts and you touched on it Blizzard's not going to stop maximizing their profits, right activation is not going to stop maximizing their profits and people are inevitably Yeah, of course, they're going to buy something All right, like I might not buy it. You might not buy it There's going to be people out there that are oh cool mount. They're going to buy it and Now you have this thing where if they have this Sort of positive feedback, which the only real positive feedback there is is it's they're looking at their wallets They're just going to start littering the game with with store mounts and stuff And it just it starts the snowball process and I don't I'm not big on the slippery slope thing I just want to finish this one thing like I'm not big on just slippery slope because I think I mean it's a fallacy and and all that like all that stuff aside I think it's more of a snowball effect of They're going to be like, yeah, this is totally worth and they're just going to do more So sorry say they should accelerate. They should sell a ton more mounts. I should sell 70 boosts level 70 boosts They should sell tokens and then, you know, like 10 years from now we can get classic classic classic Yeah, and then we can just start over without it. Yeah, of course. I mean, it's just going to be the cycle over and over and over Yeah I don't understand why why they thought this was a good idea And I think that there are a lot of people in the community like I've I've read some threads about it And pretty much everybody is universally against this Yeah, it's not like there's a lot of people who are okay with the idea of a mount in the game Do you guys think that there's a way That if there's enough community negative feedback that they'll take it out Or not do it or is this just a reality that we have to live with? I think interesting enough blizzard blizzard has listened to some of the requests from the classic player base I don't know about shadowlands, but you know the the whole drum meta thing people were like, yo This is stupid after 15 years of tbc on private servers and whatever we know. This is dumb We don't want this and then blizzard fixed it and that's sort of the some changes thing So but you know the drum thing isn't making blizzard money. So the mount is They're making blizzard money. So they're probably less inclined to get rid of this stuff because it would decrease their bottom line Yeah, whatever, you know Hey, real quick just to go ahead and get out of the way asmen if you want to switch to your other camera and just set up the virtual cam for the other camera and let your your Your main camera charge and then you can continue the rest of stream with your main camera instead of worrying about flipping it on and off Do you want to do that? Yeah, I don't know what to do I I don't remember how to do it. It's like a filter thing. It's gonna be a huge pain in the ass I worry about that happening. I can try and do it while we're Okay, just like I think that should be less stressful just to get out of the way now and I personally I don't mind It's totally fine. Uh, yeah, I mean, I've just got to kind of find out where it is and everything It's gonna probably take me a while for this to happen though So here here go ahead and do this right click right click on your camera filters. Yeah, I've already got virtual cam It's set up. Okay. There we go. Just stop it and then start it on the other one. Make sure to stop it on the main cam first Um Okay, let me try and do that and I'll just give you guys my other camera that way if it dies It'll be okay. Yeah, and then you just you just let your current camera charge Okay, let me see if I can do that. Okay turn on camera obs virtual camera Uh, is that gonna work? No, it looks like it's not working No, no not obs virtual camera No, I've been through all of them though. Like this is the only one that works Uh, no, no. Well, this is this is how you would do it is, uh, click on your current camera filters I already did that Yeah, I think I have to restart everything if I want to do that I don't want to restart everything. I can just turn it off off and on. It's not a big deal Okay, um, yeah, that's fine Uh, so anyway As we're saying So I haven't really looked at the mount that much I'm actually watching as I'm streamed here and used to has it up in the background The mount is like way more high res than other mounts in tbc It would look really weird in tbc and I think people are Appropriately angry over being added, but I mean it's one of those things We don't even know for a fact if it's going to be in tbc. This could be some retail mount or Promotional mount who knows um, but yeah, I I don't think it should be in tbc Yeah, it's called the uh for those of you guys who don't know if you haven't seen it We haven't loaded up here. It's um the veridian phase hunter Right, and it's uh, I do think it has like it's a little bit higher res But you know they they've done a lot of stuff to where uh the the current models If you look at the current game versus the old game It's going to be I think the current game looks a lot nicer Like they definitely use like uh, it's not 100 the same exact models as before And I do think this would fit. I mean they even have it in shatrath here There's a screenshot of it, but that's wow head probably loaded up in there on like a private server or whatever Um Yeah, I don't know. I really I really don't know how this is going to pan out But I I hope this isn't you know it might start out as hey It's something for a classic collectors edition because apparently there were some some rumors about them adding a special mount for a collector's edition And the question is is it really going to stop there? I will tell you this. I don't think so. Go ahead I was going to say this might be a hot take if I had to choose between the 58 boost and a mount on a mount shop For TPC I'd choose the mount the 58 boost like in game economic impact player player experience I think the boost is is functionally worse than the economic impact is definitely worse than a mount I mean the mount is ultimately a cosmetic This is clearly like in my opinion like I'm a big one for cosmetics And if like if bots can 58 boost it's way worse. It's definitely way worse Well, and uh, just the fact that you can go straight to 58 and get through some of the level requirements for professions uh I mean the the the gold farming the bots You could easily it's it's very pay to win because you're going to be able to pay for new accounts You get one boost per account sure but people they're going to spend the money and they're going to get multiple accounts and they're just You don't have to buy anything you just paid this you just pay the sub. Yeah, exactly And it's it's literally it's going to be like a factory. It's like you're owning a factory on your bank account No, no, it's going to be it's going to be completely ridiculous I've said it before I think I I do actually understand why they want to add a boost Or something for new players to come in or for players who played burning crusade and burning crusade was like That was their game and they didn't play classic And all that stuff, but there's two things to think about here one They nerfed leveling really hard in uh in burning crusade from 1 to 60 They made it much easier level so it is going to be faster like a lot easier Yeah And the second thing to think about is didn't they add in recruit a friend and all this stuff in burning crusade In in late tbc. Yeah in late tbc. They did so Why not make it an xp boost or something like that? Why not bring back the recruit a friend program? I think that'd be fantastic I think the way they should have done it because you're right whenever tbc prepatch comes out like the xp required from I think it's 20 to 60 is nerfed by 20% I think that's how it is current quests reward more xp and they add new they add new questers new quest hubs And so leveling is way easier and so I think at blizzcon line They should have said you know what if you want to get into tbc You didn't play classic but you care about tbc prepatch is the time to do it. It's going to be two months It's easier to level there's going to be dren eyes and blood elves running around That that should have been the selling point For getting new players back in the game or new players in the game in the first place and not the 58 boost Yeah, now I feel like the boost is the worst way for it to happen Like the boost is just it's the it's the worst possible outcome I'm just going to leave my camera off for like five minutes and see if that helps Yeah, I think I think that's fine. Just whatever whatever is Yeah, don't So The fact is like the boost is basically the worst possible option because I do think that having a mage boost you in dungeons Is infinitely better than literally paying blizzard real life money to increase the level of your character Like there's no interaction that occurs. There's no economic impact of this There's nothing that like even having mages that Having mages that exist in a game that will boost you for different things Creates an economy that gold has value for And I think that's one of the big things that Blizzard over time has lost the perspective of is the way that these different things these different things in the economy Especially in like vanilla wow and bc affect other things in the economy and drive value Right completely ring I think because how many videos have you seen on youtube of the most expensive items in gaming or whatever And then they they attach a real value to an item and this is just one more thing Yeah, it does that right and that's that's more so And it's accurate. It is accurate and and more so to emphasize your point on that right like I think that this is something that is it's not good level 58 boost is not good I think an xp boost is a very good compromise I think they should bring back the recruit a friend program I think regardless I think give them the xp boost because there's going to be a lot of new players who maybe they don't have friends And they can't recruit a friend. That's fine Give them the opportunity to get like I don't And you can make it massive. You can make it as much as three times four times xp for Yeah For up to level 60. I think that'd be great or maybe up to level 58 That'd be fine. I have no problem with that, but at least people have to spend the time Now here's the argument that you can make. Yeah, at least you have to play the game And at least the world isn't dead people are like, oh, well, what about mage boosters and stuff? Well, mage boosting mage is having aoe cap that's put in on burning crusade So mage boosting is probably going to be dead in pre patch And not as good. It's not as good. It's not dead dead, but it's not as good And then yeah, paladin boosting remains supreme and everybody should play a prop paladin and then everything's safe Yeah, there it is So All joking aside all joking aside. I think that this is something that Even if mage boosting is the thing like you have to know somebody to boost you have to pay for a boost and all that sort of stuff Uh I I think that there's going to be new players to the game and having them learn to play their class Think about this. How many times have you played the game with somebody who is a boosted in retail over the last However many years since they added the boost you start playing a game and you queue up for a for a random lfg Whatever you're trying to do your daily And it's just some moron who has no idea what his abilities do. It's not hard. I get it Also, it's not his fault either It's not his fault either so so then they get a bad taste in their mouth because they're like this community is toxic And they hate me but they hate me because it's it's so bad It's I think it's a really bad new player experience The leveling process is like a tutorial and I would agree. I think leveling in classic takes a long time Some would argue maybe even too long. I think so too. I think leveling in classic is pretty slow But it's not a bad leveling experience because you have a constant series of little wins and You you feel the progression and you get better and better every time, right? I think the leveling experience in classic is only too long If you view it as a means to an end and not actually the game itself Because the idea of classic wow was that you play through the game And it's not like you you don't win the game whenever you hit 60 or anything like that You just unlock other content But because right now gamers are so much more goal oriented than they were back whenever classic came out That's the only thing people can think of Another thing that contributes to people like not enjoying the current leveling experience of questing normally and running around killing mobs Is because in the back of their head, they know Uh I could do this which takes like 10 days slash played or I could buy some gold on a third party site and get Boosted in afk and watch netflix in two days or three days slash played So it's that comparison because you can't blame Wow players for wanting to min max and so having that other option there that's way faster It makes your like actual accomplishments of playing the game leveling up feel way worse, right? And then I also think the world of warcraft player base right now It has this sort of like defeats mentality when it comes to classic where it's like Oh, there's bots everywhere and people are afk and dungeons getting mage boosted So who cares if blizzard adds a 50 of boost. It's like well Let's try to like fix the current issues Rather than making things way worse, you know Yeah, 100% I would agree I would definitely agree I think that's absolutely what's happened is that I think it's sad that a lot of the arguments for being okay With the classic boost are basically just things that are bad about classic and people just accepting it Just like, okay, there's gonna be bots. There's gonna be this mage boosting and Who cares how much worse it gets It's disappointing but at the end of the day I think the only way that any of this stuff is ever gonna change is if like everybody doesn't like it And the problem is like retail wow has definitely conditioned players into being more okay with micro transactions and I think gaming in general has And I can't really see there being enough of an outcry of people that don't want this in tbc Because realistically how many people are actually going to not play tbc because of this mount and Yeah, it's it's an unfortunate reality But blizzard is going to take advantage of that and manipulate it because they just want more money I mean look Look at the way that they run the company They finally like yeah, and they have they have a very big like market analysis team that looks at like, okay How shameless can we get before it's no longer profitable for us? You know, so it's like, okay, we might lose some subs But the current people who keep playing and buy them out makes it more worthwhile. So it's you know screw them whatever Yeah Yeah, that's that's exactly what it is Yeah, I think it's uh, this is something that kind of went under the radar But blizzard did more layoffs last week It was two weeks ago. Yeah Yeah, I didn't hear about that. Can I do it? Do you guys know the details? I don't know too many details but I know it was 50 people and I think it was like some things are Like I understand that it's a business and they're letting certain things go like I think it was like some event stuff and all that and I know that corona stuff is going on but corona is Maybe it's a wishful thinking but I think corona is going to be over by the end of the year At least mostly over so why are you getting rid of the event people at the end of the pandemic? and then It probably will be yeah I mean, I think that for the most part by that time like many many people will have the vaccine So it will be much less of an issue. Yeah over Right. Yeah, I mean it's definitely going to be a lot less than it is now. I think any reasonable person assumed that Uh, but yeah, I don't know. I mean it seems like blizzard They this is like kind of what I felt like with blizzard in general Is that they've definitely moved away from being kind of like that really cool? Uh, you know gamer place and they've definitely transitioned more into just being a company Yeah, because at the same time that This happened Bobby Kodak who's like the ceo got a 200 million dollar bonus like 200 million dollar that's insane Yeah, like I can't even imagine that much money And that's what we're at So I can't really see these kinds of things changing and I also think that that's probably the way that twitch does things too I don't want to derail the conversation too much. Yeah, but they clearly turn into a whole thing. I know I agree Yeah, they clearly probably look at the analytics and they see how many people are actually not watching because of ads And because they're seeing that few people Actually leaving because of ads they just keep pushing more ads because as much as people say, oh, I'm not going to watch this anymore I'm not going to go on twitch anymore. It doesn't actually happen They still keep on the website and they just keep complaining about it And I think that's what happens with with wow with like these mounts Now, maybe you can see an effect 10 years down the line like compared to retail wow and you look at the store and how Extravagant it is now versus before but now it's just it's a completely different thing I think that probably classic wow ended up being way more successful than they had expected And they have a lot of regret over not monetizing it more and so they're like, you know what? We're not going to make that mistake again tbc. We're cashing out, you know Oh, well, well, I talked to somebody at twitch con last year a month after Classic came out. I talked to somebody at twitch gonna work to blizzard and you know, I got a chance to talk to him for a little bit and he was like, let me tell you about classic like their expectation They had like tears there was If if it was going to go well They were like right here If it was going to completely blow their expectation out of the water, it was going to be right here If it went bad down here and they were like, okay, it's not the end of the world. We got it out We did the thing, you know, people are happy at least move on Where it ended up being he said it just Completely shattered it wasn't even remotely close to what they thought and the the fact that they started out with four servers initially and now they have I don't even know the total server count For uh for classic wow right now. They just were constantly adding servers and that whole debacle Yeah, the the pre pre names and the testing and okay, let's let's see what happens layering is we we are fully Confident that layering is going to be over by the end of phase one and then we're Halfway into phase two and they're like, uh, sorry There's no way we can there's you won't be able to play the game without layering and then they they get rid of it and then they bring it back and The game was from a standpoint from their perspective was wildly successful and I think a lot of people would agree um Now we we go on and we bitch and we rant and we even like I think To our unfold like I think all three of us do this We get a little bit preachy at times about things that we're unhappy with with classic and that's just because we expect so much, right? Uh, it's it is a good game and all that stuff and we have experienced it in a different way than it's been Brought back to us and that's why and we just kind of expect that it's like you guys know how to do this Like all the information is out there just do it, right? So, um, that's really what I think the big hope is with burning crusade Uh, I want to lead that into talking about them Doing pre-nerf content some things that they're doing differently from original classic and We didn't we did kind of talk about this again on the uh on the last episode We just brought classic aspects. So on the last episode we talked about this with tips but They want to do pre-nerf content because one of the biggest things they learned and this is something that, uh We've been very vocal about stasis and I were Again getting kind of preachy about this But having the end game post-nerf content on top of having stronger characters from class balance 1.12 talents and and skills And then stronger gear from 1.12 talents and skills You're taking the goalpost and you're moving it this way here and then this way here and The content is too easy and the characters are too strong And it just ended up being while I I think i've been very vocal about this Wow is not a super classic. Wow is not a super mechanically difficult game It's a game that's difficult in terms of preparation and really knowledge You got to know like what you got to do at certain times, but it's not mechanically difficult And uh, there's times where you can just straight up ignore mechanics And there's fights in wow that people don't even know have mechanics because everybody was so strong that we just Blew right through it early on nax is different. I think nax was perfect But guess what the entirety of the game was based around the nax patch so um I think nax is a really good difficulty and here's like i'm going to talk about this more in a second But the problem with nax is how cost prohibitive it is like consumes are so expensive Like it's so if you if you could just go in and do the raid and not have to get a full robust and full consumes I'd be great. Like it'd be so good, but um Let me ask guys this. Do you do you think that? I'm this is going to sound crazy. Okay. I'm worried that pre nerf tbc content is going to be actually I'm not saying it's hard. I'm saying it's going to be Dude, this is going to sound so dumb I'm afraid it might be so difficult It'll turn people away from tbc because I think one of the reasons why people like classic content is because it's completely face Roll your brain is off. You can kick back some beers with the boys and relax. I think it is Yeah, I'm afraid being in in in a progression rate even if it's only for a couple days or a week We're progressing on this boss in tbc I'm afraid for classic players that actually might be too much of an effort for them if that makes sense I would agree with you if it was in classic wow Because in classic wow the amount of prep like what you're talking about is so gigantic That if you have to spend a bunch of a bunch of gold every single time that you wipe It's just completely soul crushing. It's like if you wipe in next promise Halfway through the raid and you still haven't done the military wing You've got to do four horsemen without whirl buffs and a lot of people aren't going to redo their elixirs You're in for a bad time. It's going to take forever You're going to have to be you know really thinking about it and paying attention Whereas like whenever you have whirl buffs, you can just basically kick back fuck around and do what you want Especially for the other raids like max is still pretty hard, but the other ones are not So the truth is that I agree with stay safe I think that yeah if if they bring out pre-nerf cruel And you have the shatter that will one shot you if you get hit by anybody else's shatter Then yeah, you might actually have some people that are going to quit the game because of that I think I sorry go ahead Now to add on to your point, you know, you're definitely in TBC wiping is it's like, uh, we wipe whatever will go again Is whatever yeah, you know, if the tombs keep ticking you don't lose whirl buffs. So exactly. Yeah I think uh I don't think it's going to be too hard. I think uh I think it's going to be more difficult and yes inevitably There's going to be some people that the game might be too hard for them But the fact that the wipes aren't as demoralizing it's really you're losing time as a you're losing You're actually losing less time from wiping because the time you lose whenever Hey, if if you did want to have a raid not all raids require this, but you have raids that okay We're going to get our world buffs this and that and then you wipe then it's like Oh, I lost all the time of preparing for the raid like I before my you know I've like this is how we do it in crusade. It's a it's a four hour Like we call it like it's a raid time But it's really like a guild activity time where you know, we might do one raid two raids People will leave and they'll do zg or whatever Uh after after they're done Yeah, like we clear an axe in four hours in my raid But we have other raids that do it much faster than that just because the the different raids like they want to do different things um In in burning crusade you are not going to have this thing where You're going into it completely. We don't know what's going on Even in classic we didn't have that but most of our knowledge is on private servers There's a ton of burning crusade videos There's there's a there's a pvp video i'm in I remember whenever I first started streaming On twitch and somebody came into my chat and goes Is this the s fan from rifle 1112 and I thought he was making a ron jeremy joke because I had my mustache That's like I didn't even I thought it was a porno. I couldn't remember and and I go and I look up rifle 1112 And I ended stream. No, I looked up rifle 1112 And uh, it's it's a pvp video that I was in From 12 years ago where I'm in at the end of the pvp video and I I guess I'd forgotten about it And uh, the guy he put me in at the end of the video like out of people that he lost to in duels And it was like me and like a few other ones and it was cool and I was like holy crap Yeah, so it's like you see my character and I'm running around and it was it was a total like it was a total trip for me I do I I I started to remember who it was the guy's name was rifle lover is a door funner pretty cool Um, I had the same thing happen one time. I just randomly find myself Somebody told me that they saw they asked me if I was in a guild called silent asylum And I was like, yeah, I was and they're like, uh, I think you're in this random pvp video from burning crusade From like eight years ago and or not eight years ago like 15 years ago So I looked at it and that was actually me and the best part about it Is it was my warrior in like full tier four gear and the gladiator gear I had just gotten my gore howl. I had berserking and I was in war song goals I killed like three people man. I was so happy It wasn't just like me dying to like a hunter pet or something stupid like that But I was actually popping off in that video. Yeah, that's awesome. It's just cool Like I was in a video where I like 1v10 like 10 people. Yeah, I saw that one Yeah, that was that was the one where you 1v10 the people and then and then you went back and while we were drinking like 16 cheerleaders showed up and just started Yeah Yeah, you had to like pay for his flying mount and you know, you could do that because you Well, there's easy for you. Yeah. Yeah, those are the days man. Those were the days No, I mean, I think it's cool to have that kind of stuff and obviously the pre-nerf bosses are They're really not that hard I think that if classic taught people anything is that the idea of the difficulty of the bosses is much different than the Reality of the difficulty of the bosses and I think on a very fundamental level And this isn't something that can be changed with numbers on a very fundamental level. The bosses are easy Like they have very mechanics. The frequency of the mechanics is very low There are just fewer things that can go wrong Each individual player has less of an influence on the outcome of the raid the damage checks are smaller And actually will besides that all the other ones that I mentioned before that These are all just actual fundamental game mechanics It's not like this is something that's going to get changed by increasing its health or whatever You'd have to completely redesign the fight. Yeah, so I believe that overall The fights are going to be a lot easier than what we see in retail Wow, but they're going to be a massive step up in difficulty versus what we see in classic now it's going to be I'd say half again harder than next probably the same difficulty jump from let's say bwl with like, you know 16 debuff slots, etc bwl to next in terms of difficulty is going to be the same jump that next is going to have to Like tier five. I think tier five is where things are going to really get hard Grul, I think is just planning but tier five is where things get real Well, yeah, I mean so in classic right now, how many bosses are there where There's individual player responsibility where you can wipe the rate if you use something wrong Like on an individual basis. There's like three or five arms. There's not that many. Yeah It's barangayan with the bomb. It's like fatty is it's veil There's not a lot in tbc You're like just about every boss has one of those mechanics where it's like, yeah These people have to be awake They have to have a pulse and you have to pay attention at least a little bit, right There's a lot more I think classic while one of those mechanics is just like aggro So like for example shazra if you pull agro on shazra and he runs towards the casters and he starts Exploding them then yeah, I think that would count but overall you're right There's much more personal responsibility That's levied on players in bc versus vanilla And I think the best example of that obviously is taran gore fiend Where you have to become the ghost and kill the ghost running towards the boss But there's plenty of other examples too with like lady vash with the tainted core I mean, I think some people still have their macro of the tainted core And I had my uh Pop potato with that thing Yeah, yeah And that kind of stuff like obviously that's going to be a huge step up in difficulty versus what we have right now in classic So I saw post see We will you I was gonna say I think you will see guilds that were classic wow guilds that were pretty good Fall apart in tbc 100 percent 100 um, I saw a post. It was so funny when I read it It was someone in my chat. They said the same people that Stand in void zones on kelthuzad Are the same people in tbc. They're gonna move during uh during flame wreaths. Oh, yeah cares. Yeah, that's true Oh, dude flame wreath Oh, man shade of iran No, it was uh, man burning crusade was such a good time. I think uh, What do you guys think is the what was your favorite rate tier like for me? It was tier five It's not even close like tier five is the best here. Yeah, like that that's it like tier five was incredible Like I'll even go back. It's ironic that you say that because I was literally just randomly flying over to the eye To do the eye. Yeah It's just it's such a good rate here. Yeah And the bosses Especially if you look at the depth of what uh, like what what lady vosh was and the depth of kelthuz I know there's a lot of a lot of nerds in here in my chat at least Thinking that tier four was really or tier six was really cool Illidan was a was not really that complex versus lady vosh or kale Like if you look at the actual Yeah, the actual mechanics is way more and half the rate tier of tier six is hyjal, which is oh man like I was 12 rating hyjal. I would afk and do algebra homework instead of doing hyjal Yeah, that's when I would do my homework is rating hyjal. I'd rather do algebra than do that rate. It's terrible, man Yeah, I uh, I quit rating in that tier uh around around that time. I ended up quitting rating and uh, I just I just went full on pvp focus Uh, that that's what it was for me. So, um I mean, I'm excited to go through and get to do everything especially things like sun well because I didn't even step foot into sun well Yeah, I didn't step foot into sun well. I didn't uh, I didn't kill kelthuz either because kelthuz was was Me he was just bugged like you couldn't they didn't nerf him until um When they ended up nerfing him how how close was it to two black temple launch? It was I don't remember I don't think they know I think they nerfed it before it launched But he didn't die until after black temple launch, which by the way I still think is one of the coolest things. Am I am I wrong about that? I don't know when the nerf happened, but kt died 10 days after fetch 2.1 Yeah, and and I think that is insane like that is that is so cool, right? Yeah, that blizzard was like, um, it's time. Here you go. Here's tier six Add in the nerf rate, whatever. Yeah, I don't think they should however I don't think they should do that for classic or classic tbc Because the reality is that by the first week of this game coming out All of the raid content will be cleared. I will be amazed if we don't have at least 100 probably Mac therodon kills or 50 mac It'll be so many more at the end of this week. Yeah, it's gonna be a huge amount of people Yeah, I mean, I'll I'll say like to add on that real quick I think all the tier four content is going to be cleared within 48 hours of of tbc It could be I think all of it will be dead within two days. It'll be it'll be fast I don't know how fast people are, but it'll be very very fast I don't think the kt nerf was like more of a bug fix. So what was happening was uh, like the ads It was more of a bug fist. Yeah while they were dead like dead in quotes. So And then we go Yeah, because the healers were generating threat and then all of a sudden you'd go Out of weapons phase and then it was just like, okay, all the healers are getting on now I would like to see People try and complete that fight with that bug still being in the game because there are ways that you could stop it But it's so expensive No, it's it's just it would be stupid. Oh, no, it would be stupid. I agree I would I just out of curiosity. I would like to see it. I wouldn't like to see them put in the actual game But it would it would be something interesting to watch Uh, like as a one-time thing or whatever But uh, I remember I remember before classical the people asking for pre nerf confluent And it's like it's not pre nerf. It's pretty it's just bug fix kathun where it's like, you know The pre nerf kathun was you had tentacles spawning in the wall like, you know shooting i-beams at your rate and you can't even target the tentacle It's like, okay, like and tentacles in the stomach also like what okay, that's not fun Yeah, it was a very very similar thing with kathun but uh My man, yeah, I think uh, I think I think tier five is is the most fun I do like that they're not releasing tier five and tier four at the same time I think that realistically it is going to be a uh a good idea to Give it a little bit of a time It sounds cool to do that And I think that if they ever did like a race server for tbc where you start at 60 or something like that Then yeah, they could release them all at the same time and just see how far people could get with the base gear But in terms of like actual just tbc No, I mean Why would they do that? Because you're just cutting your own content short and the truth is that it's going to take a lot of people More time than just a couple of weeks to get through all the tier four content People level slow. They play slow. They don't get their attunements right out of the way They wanted to do some pvp. They just want to rep grind or whatever. So I think that's a big factor too Yeah, I think there's a lot of people kind of bummed out over the whole It's only the tier four content at launch thinking. Oh, there's only three 25 men bosses in karazhan, which is a small But like seriously, there's so much content to be done with professions You know, you get all your profession gear. There's all the heroic and reputation systems Like there's a lot to do in early tbc That's not 25 men read content and you're still going to have fun and be satisfied I think and it's not it's not really the same as classic content either Like there is there's a grinding element to it right with the rep grinds and whatnot But the rep grinds are very rewarding and one thing that I did think blizzard did that was really good in burning crusade Was they really introduced another method of getting gear without Having to invest All this time and effort into rating Like with the heroic rate or the heroic dungeon Sorry, uh being able to do heroic dungeons and getting Really like low tier raid quality gear Actually at the beginning at the beginning of burning crusade a lot of the heroic gear was better than kerosene gear And then they ended up buffing the gear I don't know. I mean that that turns into a whole concept of like progressive itemization stuff I don't think the Uh the way that the items progress in burning crusade are quite as drastic As they are in vanilla like vanilla a lot of the early items get so buffed Stuff like savage gladiator chain ends up being good until aq 40. Whereas Beforehand it was like a tanking chest. It was like a male tanking chest. It was it was like a decent tps chest piece um I think that If they don't do progressive organization, which I don't expect them to do because they didn't do it the last time I think it's lazy all the stuff that they're not doing it uh I think that you're gonna end up having a little bit better gear kind of the same problem But if they're doing pre-nerf content They've shown a willingness and they've addressed the fact that they thought raid content was too easy and classic So maybe they would be willing to tweak things here and there in the beta Um Which is what i'm hoping for. I hope I hope it's the right difficulty The I want the game to feel right I think it's obvious that like tbc or sorry Vanilla wow whenever they brought it out The idea that people had of vanilla wow was clearly not what they got because the idea was like these really hard raids and People imagined it being one thing and it turned out that it just wasn't that thing And at the end of the day, you can't just completely change the game You can't redo everything But I do think that the idea with tbc should be to make the game Like the way people remembered it to a certain extent and I think that's where they have that leeway With adding in the uh the buffs But I don't think they should really change or nerf things or actually really buff things In ways that they weren't buffed during the actual game, right? So for example, like they shouldn't just like randomly make a boss harder because guilds are able to kill it easily Well, they shouldn't be adding like a random mechanic or whatever to a boss for no reason, right? Like uh, yeah Yeah, just to randomly make it harder. Yeah, my nice to see I I think people at this point after playing 18 months of classic. Well people are More concerned with like what's fun and good for the game rather than the strict adherence to the gospel of no changes, right? So for me, it's like, you know, if they got rid of world buffs and classic I'm like, hell, yeah, it's just not fun, right? And that's that's my personal opinion But there's certain and you know another thing that I really dislike about classic is the dungeon boosting that I wish they do something with dungeon exp to to reduce the meta. So Um It's it's good. They're doing things like that in tbc. The first example is that is changing the drums Which is just really restrictive on fun gameplay in my opinion. Yeah, nobody wants to have to like it's not Feel the need Yeah, I mean like the thing is having the drums is just such a huge thing So if you don't have them, you're just at a massive disadvantage Like there's nothing good about that. It doesn't make the game better at all And why take a holdover from something that just makes the game more annoying and restrictive? I can't really see a positive with that at all, right? One thing I want to touch on and I this is something that I've kind of Uh Again, uh, I've kind of like preached this for a long time The feeling of authenticity is a lot more important than factual authenticity Because at the end of the day nobody cares what the the armor value of saffron and past one point one 1.4 like nobody cares, right? It doesn't matter What what matters is that the fights feel good The it feels like I'm playing classic because that's what people remember People don't give a crap about like the specific values of this and that Now the specific values can lead to a fight feeling a certain way. And then that's the developers That's the designer's job to figure that out But what what the goal should be is to give the players a good experience and what they're looking for Which is just that like give them the right feeling like I want to feel like I'm playing classic Uh, just to kind of reiterate your point asman Um, yeah I think that uh, I think that that's something that they really did not do a good job of with with classic Wow, and I feel like it was addressed at blizzcon. I feel like they at least acknowledged it So and you know what a good example of this is the whole paladin Like uh, the seals the the seal thing right where they fix the batch window and it's like oh now paladins Don't feel the same way and then they address it, right? So yeah, I think that's a great example of that For them listening. I agree. I completely agree. I think that there's a lot of examples of Uh, blizzard now kind of realizing that like the idea of no changes is exactly It's ironically people are memeing about oh no changes is stupid like no changes. Ha ha You know, I'm stupid. I like no changes and now We're getting the fucking that mount, right? Yeah, and this is how this whole thing started exactly That's originally what I viewed no changes to be And I think no changes was a great starting point for redoing the game But now that we've seen the way that people play we've seen the way that people look at things like what stay safe was saying Like I like rating with whirl buffs I just don't like getting them and having to get whirl buffs and sit on them for a whole week if you You know depending on whenever you get them whenever you have free time. That's just not good for the it's not good for the game, man Yeah, it's it's really not Yeah, um There's a lot of things like that that I do I I have relatively a good amount of faith with blizzard and I do think that they will try to make tbc good It's just about making sure that we give feedback that's accurate And I don't know and this is a question. I have for you guys. They didn't test aq 40 Remember that they did not test you 40 and didn't test bwl either Do you think that they should do raid testing for those those raids like for carers at For the other ones. I think they should I mean, what was the only raid they did testing for? Next the raid next right or the 40 man. I should say yeah the 40 man. It was next What was the best but they did they did nax in a weird way where they didn't let you like You know that they gave you crazy buffs, which you made it So you can't really practice your crazy min max speedrun strategies or whatever like super sweaty guys are doing It's just like hey, let's test that the timer is on this possibility work and that he actually you know Because for example, you know when bwl came out tons guild had an issue on The first boss razorgore where you'd kill the boss and the ads would keep spawning So you try to move on to veil and it's just ads they just keep spawning It's like well, we can't do the raid in live bug was in retail for like really Yeah, so there you go. So it's like if if they had tested that in some way And that wouldn't have manifested on day one of bwl Yeah, I think they kind of learned learned from that lesson there were there were issues with ak 40 as well I remember where yeah, I think they should Like kind of super buff you and let you go into ghouls layer. Yeah, just make sure stuff is working, right? Yeah, I do think that I would be okay with it if it was just like super buffs tour Like you never have the feeling because I don't want to have the feeling of killing ghoul Because with nax I felt like I beat nax on the ptr because like I went through and I did All the ptr wings of nax multiple times. Yeah nax was like a joke on the ptr because of how how buffed we were too, you know Yeah, well, we took less people and so that's how we tried to make it a little bit easier or a little bit more Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I I think I I think nax was far and away the best raid tier And I I think that this has been the best phase from a gameplay perspective of classic wow and I think A lot of people that I talked to talk about phase one and phase six has been the best and From a gameplay perspective Uh, and I would agree, right? I think the launch is always going to be exciting and you're meeting new people And it's it's like a feeling of camaraderie leveling with your guild and you wake up And it's like, yo, we got to get our group going all this like that's a very fun experience Very fun social experience from a gameplay experience and doing the raids phase six has been outstanding But but again, that's what the game was based off of the whole time and from like a From from the perspective of like, I guess marketing your game and keeping hype up and keeping people wanting to play it It's it's not necessarily a good thing overall classic still has a ton of people playing It's it's been a massive overwhelming success And all that stuff, right? But I think the You wouldn't I mean, hold on. Well, these are wow players. We're talking about here You're always going to have resentment and people complaining about everything, right? Because that's what we do everybody is going to be mad about something. It's going to happen No matter what but I think you could have reduced some of this stuff by by approaching the game a little bit better in testing and Being less worried about reducing hype Just a little bit because I think I think naks was incredible and it's been such a fun tier and I mean You take any guild that's been clearing naks Since week one two three any of that like my my raid full cleared naks in week three Which was cool and it was fun. It was a grind. It was exciting, right? It was we finally did it and it was awesome Kind of bittersweet for some people. I had people that I played with on you know for years like for four years ago I started playing them on private servers who hey, that's my last raid. I'm letting everybody know and you know hard feelings and you know, we go and next man up. We recruit somebody else but That is something that I think is really underappreciated them them testing it and and approaching the game properly So people can really enjoy and feel good about that tier any single guy in our guild now If you've been clearing it since you know, like I said week three kind of I kind of split points it for a second there Yeah, you take any individual player out of our guild and you would probably be The best geared if not one of the most geared players not in just any guild, but almost in the world Like if you go to that iron forge pro website and look at people's average item levels It's insane. Not that item level is like a primary, you know stat that people look at or Um, I guess any sort of meter of like success in how good gear is But the gear gets more and more optimized in the later tiers a lot of the gear in burning crusade is very similar to Uh, next gear the atomization of it So you see people with I almost like 90 item level now And it's just it's just people are going to have really good gear and everything and they're going to go into tbc One of the things I even liked about the next gear is some of the next gear is competitive with heroic gear from level 70 And it feels like getting good gear in max actually does have some degree of an impact in tbc I think that's really cool. Yeah Well, like yeah, a lot of the next gear lasts at least until all the way to level 70. You're very very close There are items from bwl like tier, uh, no fairings tier that as a warlock I am going to wear that at all through heroics and probably into some tier for content We had a mage kill uh illidan in our guild with nels tier. Yeah, it's not bad. Yeah Yeah, I think I don't know. I think that kind of stuff is awesome. I'm a big fan And I just hope really with tbc the main thing that I want them to do and this is also something I'm really kind of curious about you guys What do you think that they should do with arena because how could they have that we're not going to have battle groups So how can you have rank one? How can you you can do at the top point five? That would make sense But how do you do rank one? I think they've got to do it as point one Yeah, I think they've touched on this They touched on this at blizzcon and they said they're still not 100 sure how they want to approach arenas And if they want to put in the the new arena system, they didn't talk too much about it because I think they didn't want to They didn't want to open up that can of worms, but I do think there's something like There's some sort of novelty and nostalgia about creating a roster and we got our team and this is our logo and I think that was cool. But is that novelty going to wear off pretty early whenever? Oh, I can't play with the guys. I want to play with they're like this guy plays on the server and You know, there's only one rank one. I do like that. There's only one rank one I I do like that It sounds like it'll be kind of a mix of both where you have a team with an increased number of team slots And then everyone on the team has a personal rating And and a personal mmR that goes along with that So let's say you have someone that's 2k and someone that's 15k and someone that's 16k or 1600 Sorry for place k with 100. Yeah, it's like, okay Your your matchmaking value is like somewhere around 1700, right? I thought that the way it worked was you do have a personal rating inside of the team And your they didn't have to be within 200 points of the team's rating in order to get rewards from the team's rating Yeah They did add that later on originally it wasn't like that and then they added that Uh, I think it was season three. Well, you definitely also have to play 30 30 percent of the games also to get the points for the week, right? I don't remember that one. Yeah, it was it was something of 30 percent I think it was either the Either the points for the week or 30 percent of the points for or 30 percent And I think it was 10 for the week and then 30 percent of the games for the season To get this end of season rewards. Maybe that's what it was. There's something like that Um, it might have been 30 percent of the week as well. I'm not sure I I really that's the biggest thing I'm excited for and I think it's going to be one of the most interesting things that people are going to keep coming back to with tbc classic is having arenas and A sort of like a sort of matchmaking like a check the rating for the first time in classic. Wow I think that's really exciting. I think going into prepatch Just getting to do arena skirmishes in what is essentially like a project 60 for burning crusade Is going to be incredibly fun Like they're we were talking about this before we went live I think beta is like after a week or two beta is going to be kind of boring. I'm gonna be honest But prepatch is going to be really awesome prepatch is going to be amazing I mean, who knows beta might end up being really good for for a longer time than that um, but the the thing I'm really really hyped for Is prepatch and just getting to we have all our gear and right now I'm in full-on prepatch mode and I'm looking at oh, what gear do I need for prepatch? What do I need to have set up to where I can be hit capped going in and especially like if you play a hybrid I think hybrids are probably the most um, I guess biggest beneficiaries of of the what you get in a prepatch because burning crusade made a very conscious effort to make the hybrids Uh, I guess more accessible to people as far as you know Making them more viable for raids and giving them some sort of buffs and other things that they could do to make the rest of the raid stronger like Rat Paladins, for example, are insane to have in a 25 man raid now. Boomkins are great Feral's were already discovered to be pretty good at this point and all that but enhanced shamans are good Um, it's just exciting. It's very very exciting I and oh another thing about prepatch and it's something that we have never seen before It is actually going to be a brand new experience and as far as you know Talking about the meta of a game and part of the reason why the burning crusade or sorry the classic beta was so fun Was the the the the meta of level 30 We have a new meta now of Paladins and shamans at level 60 that did not exist in original burning crusade launch. We didn't have that in the prepatch Change things like how fun is that going to be for us to do viewer raids with with uh shaman win fury bot in our group? Like it's gonna be op Brought Paladin main taking next ram is yeah, right? It's gonna be really cool. Oh, shit. That's gonna be badass We're gonna have a taunt like Like for me, I'm I'm so looking forward to prepatch and trying to just get I'm trying to get all my gear for prepatch now at This point and just get ready and we've talked about it a little bit I have like I have ideas for like five or six events right now for This uh, I'm really glad they're gonna do a boost now because I'm gonna boost a fucking paladin Sorry, I have to do it I've gotta get under fury and everything man, dude You know what they did nerf the threat from thunder fury So this is gonna be something interesting Is thunder fury gonna be as good as it was in original burning crusade because they nerfed it by the end I think that well, this is what happened. I think thunder fury will probably be good for tanking it'll probably be good for tanking one mob and The uh spell power weapon will probably be good for tanking multiple mobs So like for dungeon grinding or like dungeon runs You'll probably want to have your thunder fury in your bags and then swap it on for uh threat directly But because of consecrate and also holy shield Scaling off of the spell power coefficient of your weapon The weapon having spell power on it will be better because you guys remember back in in tbc Almost all prop paladins had spell power weapons. Yeah Well, and that was that was a big a big part of the discussion about Seal of vengeance versus seal of blood because they gave alliance palette and seal of vengeance as a tanking seal And they gave blood for for blood out paladins, right as a dps seal But the idea behind the design of those seals is that they They're not meant to be something that you need a lot of like hybrid gear for like spell power and this and that But as it turned out Vengeance just was worse than using righteousness and a spell power weapon And and like having a mix of spell power in your gear. So all the blood So I think it was it was you'd want it you want to be alliance, right? And then for dps for ret you'd want to be uh horde for back in the day back in the day Everybody just used righteousness and there was like some concept of oh, maybe you can twist vengeance and righteousness and you could probably do it now You maintain five vengeance stacks and swap to righteousness. Well, the the thing was originally originally vengeance didn't even give you They they buffed vengeance a couple times throughout the course of burning crusade Is what ended up happening. They ended up buffing vengeance a few times throughout the course of burning crusade Originally, it didn't even have like flat damage on it whenever you had five stacks So they ended up changing around stuff and then people would just still use righteousness anyway because it was it just ended up being better And with seal of blood You don't you don't remember that that's what that's what I was gonna say Um, because that's what our prop island maintained because we had a I don't know if you guys have seen this It looks like there was another data mine today where it looks like there is a classic deluxe edition Which I did see that I want to talk about that in a second and the dark portal Yeah deluxe edition Do you guys want to go ahead and jump to it because uh, I have it up and I was I was ready to do it. Yeah, so Uh, so it looks like talking about doing like a deluxe edition or something Uh, it looks like that probably is what they want to do here because uh, There's been a data mine and you see right here player has tbc de And you would think it's deluxe edition, right? Oh, maybe maybe it's just for the the uh, german client. I don't know I'll drop Warp stalker mount player as dbc dark portal toy path of illidan toy Maybe it's a deluxe edition. This stuff goes to retail. I don't know Uh, maybe it's a deluxe edition for that But how are you going to add all these toys and mounts and stuff like this in classic and then not add the The the collection window And well, they're they're already like it's it's weird tbc is a weird middle ground because there's already a lot of pets A lot of mounts you can get in tbc and it was annoying to like it wasn't like them because you had to keep them in your bank I mean, for example, there was the guy in gadgets in You could turn in the code cards for and there were like a bunch of pets and a bunch of taffords and a bunch of mounts You could get from the code cards and it's like, okay Now I have to waste like 10 bank slots to carry these around which is why they added that that functionality in wrath, right? Yeah, yeah, I don't know man. Like it could just be yeah, it could just be in german and hopefully that's the case I don't want to see Deluxe editions or any of that other kind of bullshit I really really hope not and like the thing is like nobody wants to see us Who the top comment bobby's bonus ain't gonna make itself That's the first thing people were saying man. I mean, that's what it is dude. Like it's like it's it's And and people are gonna buy this And I'll be honest. I think a lot of people wouldn't care If it's hey, there's a deluxe edition and that's it, but you know damn well They're not I think that made the comment actually used to work at blizzard Wait, really? I think so. Yeah Lugia blitz You know how it goes It's how it goes dude Geez, yeah, I mean dude, it's it's I think most people would not care if if you trusted the The company enough that it was like look if it's a one-time thing Sure, but you know damn well, they're just gonna riddle the whole damn game with it. They're just going to It's just gonna be A thousand bucks that by the time classic wrath comes out, you know flash forward two years. We've got a wow token thousand bucks There's no way that we don't because look they already have wow tokens in China in the china version of classic wow No, it doesn't necessarily mean like we talked about earlier doesn't necessarily mean that it's coming here But it is it is a fair testing ground. They have a different culture It's on the table and I think also look at how bad How easy would it be for them to say? Well, we've had so much problems with gold boosting and gold selling They were adding in the wow token to combat that because we're listening to you guys and everybody's been complaining about how much Gold sellers and everything are in classic and so we're gonna add in the wow token. I think that could totally happen You know what's depressing like imagine someone who's new to playing classic wow or classic tbc They buy this 58 boost cost them 60 bucks or whoever much and they're like, okay, so i'm level 58 now I have shitty gear. I've got a shitty mount. I have no professions. I have no gold. Everyone around me has tier three What do I do? I'm gonna go buy some gold. Hey, yo, they should add wow token Like this is the demographic that's buying gold and then pushing for wow token on the forums Like you could not craft a better gold buying demographic than these people pretty much Yeah, yeah, I mean because they're already conditioned into micro transactions. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, and it's uh A lot of people don't know how the the wow token works and I will say this i'm more Uh, I thought the wow token was like the first time I ever heard of it. I was like the what that what is going on I don't think it's as bad as I as I originally thought it was because people still have to format themselves And they have to you know buy it on the auction house Like the gold is still being farmed by somebody Uh, and and that's kind of their way of of combating as gold sellers, but I I just don't know. I think you're right. I think there's I just wouldn't be surprised if if they try and make a push forward At some point and just see how it goes and all that. Is this something I want? No, not necessarily, right? But I just don't see a world where they don't eventually try and push it The thing is if players don't push back on it now They never can like once you open up pandora's box. It's never going to get closed again What do you think they're going to do whenever tier five comes out? Why wouldn't they here's a question, right? Why wouldn't they add in another mount for another six month sub because I don't think this is going to be for a collector's edition Personally, I think it's going to be for a six month sub and it's going to count for the stuff that you get in tbc And what I am expecting to happen is after that six months is over somewhere around the tier five release They're going to release something that is some version or some derivative of the tier five content That will come with the next six month pass Watch them just tell the ashes It's just it's it's literally just like snowball. Yeah I just man, I don't know. I really hope it doesn't turn into that. I'm I'm very much And I've been like this and you know because because I've talked to both you guys about this I've been very much like For them changing some things on the back end But the whole reason why the no changes thing started in the first place was because People were talking about this and then they didn't trust them exactly people were talking about stuff like this Transmog and this and that and classical. I was like, no, like these are things that don't work I mean one of one of the first times me and aswin Talked was that one night I talked to you about like want to do a video series talking about all this stuff And I ended up not even doing the video series, but we talked for like five or six hours And we talked about the video for you know, one hour and then we talked about just random high school stories back and It's just what it was right and that that's uh, that was around the time me and aswin first became friends and uh It ended up not really being a thing and and I didn't really need to do it Right because I think most people got it but now That discussion is trying to creep back up When people say when the community says look, this is the game and you guys should change some things sure um You got it. You got to count for the times all this stuff. I've been vocal about it aswin has been vocal about it Uh, stay safe has been vocal about it. A lot of people have that At what point did anybody say add storm mounts and and these cosmetic things? Not only did they not say that but that was the one thing they didn't want They were like, okay, you can maybe you know do like a little bit of layering. That's okay You can do that But what we really don't want is we don't want microtransactions. Please Don't do please. Don't do microtransactions. The blizzard is like wait. Did I just hear microtransactions? It's like that's a good ass idea. I like that macro transactions where instead of like 60 bucks It's like 6 000 bucks. So if you buy one of these mounts like you're really just flexing on four Okay, so The only thing about it is like compared to a lot of other games blizzard already has macro transactions 25 dollars for a fucking mount if you go and you play one of these phone games You can get like a whole city for that much money Dude, it's it's it's actually ridiculous and Here's here's one of the uh, here's one of the things I actually am okay with speaking of macro transactions Yeah, would you be okay with some cosmetic stuff being added to the game? For a massive massive amount of gold not things that have any any Uh benefit to gameplay or anything like that but massive amounts of gold for like a like a mount or something like that in game Because that I think would be something that is it's not required or whatever But it would kind of help A little bit with the economy nobody would really feel required to buy it unless they wanted to But there's people just sitting on thousands of gold and classic wow because blizzard decided to not make changes To some specific kind of exploitable forming methods and stuff particularly in diamond stuff and they did that for years They should just take all the old tcg items because there's three tabards the tabard of flamin frost and whatever and then There's the spectral tiger just put that shit on a vendor if it have it be a hundred billion gold Like I I don't know there you go. It's a gold sink, right? Yeah I don't know people saying no to this now answer me this What would you rather have oh go go ahead? I'll let you go first I asked my chat this question actually at the beginning of my stream and I said if they were adding this mount like the The void stalker mount let's say it's like a special vendor in netherstorm and it's for 5000 gold And it's meant to combat the inflation going into tbc Would people be okay with it and I actually got a lot of people That said yeah, I would say even the majority of people were like, yeah We'd be okay with it if it was to combat inflation. That's that's exactly what i'm thinking Yeah, exactly. Like I'm I wouldn't really want that to be honest. I would not want that But I would much rather prefer that than having it for actual real money And that's that's the case right now and this is the reality. What would you rather have? Would you rather have? Uh, like a new mount or something not current mounts that exist that you can farm for analysis I'm talking about a new mount or something like that new cosmetics Maybe even add the barbershop in things that don't matter Like the the original barbershop not like even the gender swap whatever But like you can change your hair and face and like facial hair and that kind of stuff Yeah, would you be okay with that kind of stuff added in as a as a gold sink that is entirely cosmetic and doesn't matter at all For the sake of or would you rather people have these? Massive massive just sums of gold sitting in their bags That's inevitably going to bleed back into the economy and and make all the price price of everything be inflated No, because if you're gonna ask me I don't want to see the barbershop command because I remember seeing people's face And you would recognize that little eight-bit face. Well, well I actually agree with you. I remember so so, you know, you remember exhibit that the uh, uh, Rogue yep, so don't play. Oh, yes. He was in my gilding classic. I played with him in in, uh, I played with him on kelthus odd girls don't play wow guy So zivia he transferred in burning crusade He transferred the beginning of burning crusade and then he came back and he had a different name And I saw him I remember I will remember this day because I used to duel vitas every day out zivia every day outside of um iron forge at the end of vanilla the beginning of burning crusade and I saw him and I was like Is that you and he had a different name he had zivia as his name and I was like Is that you and he's like Maybe I'm like dude. That's totally you. I'll never forget your face And he was like, yeah, dude, it's me. I just transferred back And and we ended up doing arenas together and that's that was my good fives team and all that kind of stuff But I do agree with you with that, right? I kind of said the barbershop just as an example Even even with the face. I wouldn't have a problem with people changing their hair and facial hair But like the face. Yeah, sure. That's not the point. That's really not the point of what I'm saying the point of what I'm saying is uh adding in some cosmetic things As a gold sink for these people that have massive lump sums of gold that just want to Like states have said with the microtrans the microtransactions just flex on people and be like, yo, dude Check out rich. I am like on my mount. Look at my lambo You know, let's double back. How would you guys want to see the uh The the tcg items added added back in or would you not? um If how would I feel about having tcg added items added into Tbc so like let's say they had a swift spectral tiger that you could get in tbc And it was 10 000 gold. Whoa and How would because here's the technicality gentleman is that that was in Tbc So if if you put that in the game That's not a pay to win. That was literally what the game was Well, this is what I think a bunch of fucking It's funny because I dude, I mean, I don't have that much golden classic But it is 10k is kind of too cheap now. It's it's gotten really it's I swear, dude It's stupid now. It's it's snowballed completely out of control Yeah, like I take them for gold all the time and the best they can do Like 10 gold if they're really gonna tell me that 10k is cheap for my now My viewers have been holding out on they probably are dude. Well, they're all playing retail now That's why there are there are people with like 1 million liquid gold But there are some people it is insane. You have natural weapons going for 200k One weapon. It's insane. So yeah, it's other wrestled on a Berlin. That was insane. So here here's what my thing is specifically with something like the spectral tiger Uh, I would be okay with them Uh, I actually I don't want them to put it in like that I would be okay with them putting in in fact, I want them to put it in You know what I would like to see is if you use the code This is something that I do think there should be a link between classic and retail If you have the code and you have that card and you have it from back in the day I would like for you to be able to have that in in in classic if you have Yes, if you have the collector's edition it transfers over from the original game If you have a swift spectral tiger card that you've already used on retail I think it would be cool to be able to see that in classic. I I'm totally fine with that I think in fact, that's something that's good. Not only that it kind of increases the value now of the spec If they announced that they're doing that that will now again increase the value of those Saying that because you guys at your OTK thing pulled a spectral tiger True. I know what you're doing. Well, no, if anything we already gave that card away. Yeah, we wasted it. We should have kept it Yeah, we freaking yeah, we suck dude next time that happens. We're keeping it for ourselves I'm actually mad miss if unbought that spectral tiger man. I'm how funny is that You guys are so lucky man. I am the wow andy and The the okay look as he likes to call himself the nintendo guy No, he's the pokemon guy now. Yeah, he's the pokemon guy. Let's be the pokemon guy now But he gets the spectral tiger. I was so jealous. I was so jealous of him being able to unbox that man Do you do you have one on retail? No, I will I do have I have the blue one So the epic one has special armor on the tail right and that costs $10,000 Yeah, your one's only, you know, four or five thousand dollars. Somebody gave it to me So when you get the card you cash it in you get both You get the shitty one and the good one. It's the same code Yes, yes, you receive both mounts. Yeah, right That yeah, it's oh they they everybody says only well anyway It is a lot of money and I would be okay if they did something like that to combat inflation But I do actually You guys are pretty much okay with them like not resetting gold right because I feel I wish I wish they would have Well, well, can you do like a full reset? I don't because here's the problem with them They made a really really good point If you go and you reset gold or something now you're punishing people who are just playing the game And here's how you could do is you could do like a this is what I was thinking Because on my brains on I'm gonna forget if I don't say it now like a square like if you did like a square root curve and like a You could do something where you made like 500 gold the Like if you have 500 gold you keep 500 gold But if you have less than 500 you will get a little bit more gold But if you have more than that as you go up higher and higher you start getting massive drop-offs And how much gold do you have but how are they going to figure that out right? Okay, well, I'm going to split gold up through different accounts and I've got freaking offshore accounts and We're laundering money and gold. That's what's going to end up happening So you could do something and like I had a graph somebody posted it on my subreddit Of uh, this was like two years ago of something that you could do for burning crusade because we kind of everybody kind of saw This happening. This is probably going to end up being the case But if you do that again, it's it's still the same thing like is it just going to turn into a nightmare? I don't know. What what do you think? What was what were you thinking? I'm going to be honest, dude. I was not in favor of a gold cap or gold limit or reset I was like, you know what let the kids play if you farmed a million gold, you know, you have it And then I started seeing in phase six. I started seeing people buying nax gear for 200k and it's not just one off Like this is happening regularly for 150k 100k 200k and then I started seeing that and I was like, okay I didn't know people were that rich and it's not that they Are legitimately that rich. It's that they're swiping their credit card, right? Like that's that's what's like no one who no one who legitimately farms 200k is going to spend it all on one item That's going to be worthless in six months Yeah, at the end of the game, right and so If you if you did that where your gold has to manage returns the more you have and you take that into tbc Or they they could probably pretty easily figure out like what the average amount of gold the average player has Like let's say the average guy that plays the game has, you know, 5k gold in their pocket Limit it around that and then if you have more sorry, you know, I don't know but People have very much the average guy has A hundred or two days ago. What are you even doing? Here's what I think they should have done. I think I think they either go That they either go I don't know like this way let people have all their gold or reset everybody down to zero I don't want to see some like log logarithmic Equation that you know reduces it based off of how much you have or something weird like that I want to see everybody get reset all the way down to zero and I think honestly the best solution What wizards should do is they should have like one or two tbc servers that are fresh Brand new servers. So there's no gold on them. There's no players on them And those servers release at either the pre patch or they release at bc release day I think a lot of people want a fresh and they talk about a fresh But here's the thing that we've seen on private servers and just looking at player behavior and whatnot Yeah, the same thing dude. The imbalance is so miserable. It is always Everybody will play one faction. Everybody plays horde. It is another issue too. That's very true and I'll tell you this This is a harsh reality. A lot of the fresh andes They play for two months and they quit. Yeah. Yeah, that's another thing This happened in the private server days this happened with classic wow Where everyone's like, oh fresher and then they play for two months or three months and then they quit There's there's like every private server Yes, it's like basing your gameplay decisions around or like blizzard basing everything around this demographic the fresh guys Yeah, most of them do the fresh cocks dude the fresh cocks. That's what everybody should call them Yeah But I mean you saw willy and you saw mad season do giants Like surveys asking their communities like hundred and not thousands but dozens of thousands of responses saying, you know How do you want tbc fresh or progressive? Whatever where you're where you continue on into tbc and it was always like between 15 and 20 percent of people that wanted fresh So unfortunate reality is the fresh guys. They are they are a minority But yeah, I think I think at some point maybe not now, but who knows months from now I think I think would be cool to have fresh. I think it really I I'm not a hundred percent opposed to a fresh I just think the the two primary things Are what stay safe said about uh, you do have you're catering to a player base of people that are Quick to jump ship that they're not really attached to their characters. They're like And is their height beast and he's these are the same people to get whipped up into a frenzy to buy uh sneakers for $380 from kanye west, right exactly These are not really the not all of them, but a lot of them are right You want to face things off of but I do think that there is a legitimate reason For people to want to see fresh servers because of this gold sink and uh, or sorry the other golden balance And I actually think that having a couple of them At the end of the day, especially if there's only a couple of them There will be enough people probably playing on those servers, especially if you release them at prepatch And what an experience that would be even I would be able to Kind of playing through it and that's completely new Nobody's ever had a fresh level 60 server that started on prepatch where you're leveling with paladins and shamans on horde and alliance Right, and that's that's a really good point as well. I like I said, I'm not completely opposed to it Oh, go ahead and finish your point Why not? So it's a reason like if it's one server two servers one pve one pvp Why there's going to be like probably realistically At least like 10 or 15 servers like two more There's going to be well, what's going to happen is they're they're going to move all the servers up to the burning crusade And here's what I think is going to happen I think they will move all the servers up to burning crusade And probably they'll have the classic era. This is something that's already been announced I expect that a little bit after tbc happens. They're going to do a new set of classic vanilla servers So you're going to have timelines Of this will be the classic to burning crusade to wrath Then it's going to be on a timeline of this you have a new set of fresh classic and that fresh classic is going to go to um That fresh classic is going to go to burning crusade whenever the first set goes to wrath Essentially and you're going to end up having this like snowball Of uh, like kind of like this rotating thing Well, they will keep making fresh a little bit after the next expansion comes out So then you'll have another classic comes out whenever you have a new wrath a new burning crusade and then a new classic That's what I think is probably going to end up happening Now if they do a fresh tbc And you said why not I think that you are going to have a number of people go there Do they want to take the resources and the time to to have another server going? In my opinion, you only need one good server like anytime people are talking about Is the game dead or is anybody playing you need one server? Like that's the only people that you play with is on your server So why does it matter to have more people than that now where it does matter? I'm sorry Were you talking about classic era just just just now Kind of yeah Dude, okay. I got to throw it in real quick I think the way they're in classic era is so dumb where they're having classic era pegel classic era fairlina classic era Herod gehenis I think they need to put all these classic era players on like a handful three four five Uh Classic era servers and consolidate all those people Yeah That's what I think Yeah, I think hold on it's beta out No way, dude. No way It's not on mine Did I know it seems like it's not uh, there's public test realm or the warcraft classic, you know, you got you beat it Yeah, I think we might have gotten you We got you baited. Oh man. It's got you baited me. Oh, dude Why they have to do that? Wait. No, no, no, no restart your battle net restart your battle net What no, I'm just kidding. I jubated you too. So like yeah, I think that the classic I think I think I think the classic era stuff is fine But I think what's gonna happen on those classic era servers Is it'll end up being sharded like it is on retail because if you have classic pegel classic fairlina classic white main whatever what's gonna end up happening is uh Those classic era vanilla only servers are probably gonna die unless there's some sort of interaction with these other classic era servers So that's why I think there's gonna be some sort of Some sort of sharding or something and they even touched on it, but they didn't talk too much about it up was con And I think that's what they were So then so then it's like retail where you're staying in stormland and it'll say, you know s-fond Fairlina and you'll see Let's see s-fond pegel stand the next unit's like, uh, okay That's I think that's the the the reality of the situation And it probably is the best choice if they want to have that and people are just playing vanilla forever on those servers Uh, it's so hard to say like I would actually prefer to have a mega server with modified drop rates Well, the the idea behind that like the what makes that hard is um People losing their guilds people losing their names Like it really does the server merge is hurt like if you ever been a part of the server merge it hurts community a lot It hurts community a whole lot So I mean, I feel I feel like this is the logic they followed in retail Wow, and now you have completely dead servers where it's like, you know You have people like I've had this name on this server for 15 years I mean while it's like them and seven other people on the server that no one's ever heard of because it's completely dead You know, I I think in hindsight on asman like you're more of the retail guy I think they probably should emerge servers a long time ago rather than do is as much cross server stuff as they've ended up Oh, are you kidding me? They should have merged servers at least at least five years ago Like the thing is I feel like blizzard didn't want to merge servers because they felt like Oh, if we start merging servers, then it's gonna look like the game is dying But I you know what I think makes the game look like it's dying whenever you go to a dead server Yeah, so Yeah, I think it was a huge mistake for them not to do that And uh now like even now they're not really merging servers. They're just connecting them, which I don't think is enough I want a complete server merge I think that would be the the best thing for them to do And you're right as well like the downside is of course you lose your name potentially I don't really know how you overcome that Well, it's it's like a community thing, right? Like it's hard. It's hard to really like express the the sentiment of of What everything is unless um It's it's really, uh Hold on are you gonna debate it again? Are you are you getting right now again? Hold on. I just checked. I just checked I just checked Will you sable will you will you dm me on discord can do that? Hold on. This might be threat level midnight Chat pause everybody pause streamers don't move Statue time. Let me let me see this Uh, give me a second chat What were we just talking about? I this totally got derailed because uh I'm getting like bombarded with stuff right now Wait as when are you talking? Ever came back to me. Wait, wait. Hold on. How long uh, how long were you going? Start over start over because we were totally like everything everything was busted there for a second Aswin can you guys hear me? Uh, what's the which ramp was that? Uh, go yeah, go go back and talk because I got to figure something out in diluting zero responsibility Honestly, that could be any of them Yeah, that that could be any of them Give me one second. I want to restart my battle net and then I'm gonna turn it back on and just so I can make sure Okay Can they hear us right now or not? Yeah, they can hear us. They can hear us. Oh, they can hear us. Okay public test realm on classic and I don't think that's really That's really yet. Uh, hold on. I I have I don't have the best information I can have but I have decent information right now and I'm trying to follow up on it Okay, uh, okay Are we about to be playing tvc? You might be you think blizzard does any work before noon like it's it's only to a very good point That's a very very good point Yeah, okay All right. Okay, so so here's um, here's what uh, what do we want to do about that? Um Do about what? So sorry just go ahead and continue. Uh, Well since beta, I mean if it drops it could drop any second now, right? If it We if it drops we're going let's go ahead and just let let's talk about it because we didn't even really get into meet-up What do you guys want to do in the beta? Is there anything specific that you guys really want to attack and and go for? Dude, first thing I'm going to do is I'm going to get a raid together And you know that big fucking pit lord at the front of the dark portal We're going to go in there and we're going to kill him like that's the first thing we're going to do That's the oh, yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah, um, and now that pit lord does do a massive Hellfire it one shot you the hellfire will one shot you So you have to watch out for that but other than that. Yeah, that's about it I can't wait to play with only other streamers because blizzard doesn't invite anyone that does that is Part about it is that you know, it's just like It's like you put on like sub only mode or something like that and you just You you rule out those people in your chat Who are sitting around and trying to debate you over and over and over Into thinking the beta is out Yeah, yeah It's gonna really be good Are people actually streaming the beta now or is this like private server stuff? It's either either way, dude If the beta is not out officially, you know what I think happened If if people got the download last night because they didn't uninstall beta before because this is what happened if beta got If you if you didn't uninstall the beta before there was a bug last night where it got flagged and you could download it Yeah, I would highly recommend not streaming it because I know this from experience If you stream something that you're not supposed to you will 100 get banned. You will 100 get dmca'd You like there's there's almost a zero percent chance that you don't well Let me let me check something. I just heard something that like you can log into a ptr server. Maybe I'm not sure I don't know guys. Do you want me to try and do it? Like oh, yeah, as an open up ptr. There's an incompatible classic beta pve server and pvp server, right? Well, let me go ahead and pull it up right now guys. You ready to see it. Let's go I'm classic But you have to I think you have to have downloaded the client last night during the error is how it works Yeah, you should really not You should really not stream it apparently people are saying so does literally the same the same thing on his stream Uh, because why because soda and I have both gotten in trouble for this stuff before Um, well, you can look at the realm list at least and see that it's there. I think Okay, so here's what we've got here. I'll pull it up on my screen and so it says coming soon burning crusade and So it looks like the ptr. So it looks like the beta it might Okay, no, it's incompatible. So it's not the same client, but it's the same realm and you'll see it Yeah, so yeah, we're looking at it right now. You see that yeah log out and change realm and then it'll it'll show the beta servers. Yeah Okay So again guys, this is for the beta. This is not pre patch. This is not anything. It's not real yet Uh, and it's certainly not for the actual release of the game. So because some people I think are confused um So, yeah, that's uh, that's basically where we're at right now with that So, yeah, apparently they're they're putting the servers up or they're working on it. Surely. I mean if this is up I think it's a hundred percent going to happen today I think I think it's a hundred hundred percent going to happen today at this point with uh with those servers going up on that and if people are trying to like Get in weird though if that's the case it's running off of the ptr client and not a separate like tbc beta client Right, so it's like maybe if you have the ptr you can just play it I don't know no because I'm on ptr Okay, so here's what it says So if I go to change realm It says right here classic beta pde realm and pvp realm now This is implied or assumed, but here's the thing is remember back the classic beta the classic beta was different than the uh The classic beta was different than the classic ptr like it was two different clients So somebody said Let me see if I can create the new character It'll be two different It'll be two different clients on the same realm list and we we don't have that client yet because uh, it's not uh It's not flagged to go live Yeah, so it looks like the only people that can play right now are people that had the bug manifest last night They downloaded it and now they can log in right but that's great But people again if you're a streamer you will a hundred percent get dmc for this And that's really really really bad in the current state of how twitch is and everything If you if you log in and you're not doing anything with bad intentions You're probably gonna be all right like let's be honest, but I'm gonna write a private servers I don't have bad intentions, right Uh, well, yeah, it's illegal, right? I mean like if you're logging up to the game that blizzard is literally giving you and then just playing it without them Expressly telling you that there's an nda on it and not breaking the to s like you're not gonna get banned for that Well, I mean that's the the way like dmc law works and stuff. It's I'm just saying I would be very careful They can do whatever the hell they want. That's my point And I would it's not worth the risk of of starting to play it I'm gonna try to write over and see what the dark portal looks like Yeah If I can just run through the dark portal. Fuck it I'm gonna do it on the uh on the on the ptr Yeah, maybe uh, I don't think I don't think it'll do anything because It's not I don't know I don't think blizzard has said anything. There has been no Announcement from them regarding this at all And this has been happening for like 20 minutes now. So it seems weird that they haven't commented on this And my talent seemed to be the same So we'll see what the dark portal is like Yeah, that's why I'm confused I just people everybody's logging on apparently every single person in here is uh is a scarab board It's crazy Check josh alan's twitter He didn't type anything people are just typing random things Okay, well, we're gonna go we're gonna go ahead and continue right I'm gonna I'm gonna say this much. It's almost guaranteed. We're getting beta today Uh, and and we're talking about things we want to do as when you talked about wanted to kill the pit lord We talked about this a little bit before too. Uh, we're gonna level together. Hopefully we can get all the mcconnell and uh Have asman and ian and hopefully mcconnell are gonna be able to level stay safe. What's your what's your plans for today I don't know like there's a lot of it depends on how high you can level right So if you go to 63 you do it in one sitting It's not that hard There's a ton of stuff to test like can you turn in repeatable quests? Like rogy lord insignias or zg coins or water pouches to level up really fast Uh, I want to check dunge next few rates. I want to check. Do you need revered or honored for heroic keys? Yeah, oh Yeah, they changed There's a lot to do right But I think probably the best thing to do first is just level get to the max level and then turn around and test some of that stuff Yeah, I think uh Do you think they're gonna have it go all the way up to 70? I think they will and because there's certain things that you're gonna need to have tested at 70 Like maybe they don't do the raids and stuff at first. Maybe they do it in phases and waves of like, okay We're gonna do this, you know care of phase testing or whatever, right? Uh, or they just have you do dungeons and heroics and stuff like that But uh, I would like to if i'm playing alliance I would like to hit 70 and practice seal twisting with the proper How they're changing stuff without batching because they've gotten rid of batching on the ptr And that's gonna that's gonna hold true in classic, uh, classic burning your shade So these are things that i'm gonna want to have to practice because paladins change a lot Like the class changes a ton for protection and ret so Uh, yeah, like, uh, you know, i'm a hundred percent going to want to do all that kind of stuff And and we do have plans right like we we planned We we've talked about So far like six different events to do between beta and pre-patch and classic and all this there's a lot of events coming that, uh I just kind of like throwing ideas brainstorming against the wall and it's going to be really really fun We'll we'll do some otk stuff Uh, just some things in general. There's going to be so much content to do right now and um I can't wait I can't wait. It's gonna be cool if they cap you at like 63 or 64 or something and then you can like level 64 You know a skirmish dual or arena tournaments, right? And like, you know, no one like no one's ever done that so it'd be like its own kind of unique meta a little bit. It'd be cool Yeah, I mean i'm kind of excited to see what that's going to be. I'm kind of curious to see how How much content is going to be available like is bc just going to be out and you just play bc Because I do think they should really they shouldn't release all of the content because if they do that I think it'll diminish the actual release of the game I think releasing it in sections and only letting people do parts of it would be better to keep the hype Yeah Yeah, I agree. I think that's like that's obviously the the bonus of preserving the hype But then also your risk having legitimate bugs that were that were on tested, right? If they do the testing I think I think it's fair to say if they do testing the next the next testing was was a very good example of how it should be done 100 um Yeah, I think I have no idea how this tbc beta is going to go. I don't know when it's going to go live I'm like I'm so excited. I think it's going to go live for sure today now I think in the next few hours, we'll be able to play. Yeah I'm excited man. I am uh, this is crazy. I'm I'm hoping for it But it does seem weird that after half hour of this now though that there's no Commentary at all for me. I mean, what if it's what if it's not live? What if we just all three of us didn't get it? Yeah Or what if it's not sorry, what if it is live not it's what if it's not uh People playing the download from last night Yeah, guys, I like I know everybody's saying like my mom is in my sister, you know, this guy that guy's in it It's not the point like if it's not live they they They are a hundred percent in their power. I mean they can dmc for whatever they want like we like we know how the laws work I've gone through this personally I'm just saying it's probably not in your best interest as a streamer to do that because what if what if you get live dmca today And now you can't stream beta on the first day because you want to play By the way, they just show them down. Yeah, so guess what that means that means that was not intended That means delete the vod probably. I'm just I'm just being honest like protect yourself I think that's completely unnecessary. It is completely unnecessary to do that. Um, I I've been through it. They do it It's it's obnoxious No, I it's it's apples and oranges man. It's completely different. It's a little different It's not completely different, but it is a little different. Yeah Because I'm just saying if if I if I am If if I'm in that situation and there's a chance That I get banned on on the day of tbc beta launch for it's only going to be a 24 hour probably for a dmca But that is going to suck because because you've played an extra 30 minutes. You know what I mean yeah For 30 minutes or maybe 10 15 minutes It's not it's not worth and they just took it down, right? Which to me is like the most telling like I'm out piece I'm just being like I'm just being uh And uh the dark portal is uh the old color It's not new or anything like that and it's still just being guarded by all of those elites So right now it seems like we're not going to be looking at a uh at a new New ptr. I mean the thing is that they might not even have this available and it might not come out for a while So I'm not too worried about it. I think it'll probably come out Hopefully in a few hours. Maybe maybe in an hour. I mean it could come out in in an hour Yeah, I don't know when it's coming out, but for sure it's going to come out uh, so I think uh Let's let's go ahead and get get ready to wrap this up here. We've gone a little bit longer than we expected We were just rolling Let's do it. Let's do a few questions from uh from chat if you guys in chat want to uh Give us some questions if you guys want to tweet at us Uh, well Stacey had a situation that he's trying to uh figure out But uh, if you don't want to tweet with uh, hashtag hashtag classic cast at uh at asma gold at aspan tv Um, I'll look at some questions on twitter too. Do you eat corn the long way? The long way is the only way, dude um, so yeah, if you guys have any questions go ahead and feel free to ask questions and um We will uh, we'll go ahead and get ready to wrap it up because this is Going to be very exciting. I think we're about to get ready for a beta. I actually uh, I want to kick this off I have a question for chat uh real quick Do any of you work for twitter if any of you work for twitter go ahead and DM me after the stream Yeah, we can work at a deal. Okay. Thank you. Well, let's just go ahead and say what it was so Stay safe downloaded a vpn on his phone and because he accesses twitter on his phone He gets permaband on twitter saying that his uh He had multiple accounts and he was doing uh, some kind of like, you know illegal breaking to us malicious activity Yeah, something like that Like a month after I got banned off twitter this app got taken off the itunes store for harvesting user data. So it's like Yeah That's the way this yeah, so like it's it's very clearly like a mistake But you just kind of got screwed by the ip tracking or whatever the bullcrap is Yeah, um now honestly like yeah getting getting banned from twitter is probably good for your sanity to be honest stay safe But for for the sake of everything else for the sake of everything else Uh, yeah, it would be nice if states have been banned, but if you guys want to tweet at us if you guys want to ask some questions in chat Um Do you guys have anything that you guys want to ask as men stay safe myself? Okay, well, let's let's ask some pretty interesting questions. I think I've got one So now you're your classic player. Let's say level 60 What can I do right now to prepare and what items are going to last me into tbc? Yeah, yeah Um, I I think the single best way to repair is level as many 60 alts as you can and get to 300 tailoring on them Tailoring alts going into tbc are going to be so incredibly Lucrative for all you guys. That's what I would say level level level or hey if you're a ceo in real life Go ahead and boost 50 boost smart Yeah, I mean uh, I think uh, I think having a bunch of alts and stuff is going to be helpful If that's if that's what you want to do I've always been like a one character kind of guy like I just like to focus on my one character So what I want to do to prep for tbc There's not a lot of gear that's going to last that long, but there's some gear that is going to last a decent amount of time You want to look at An item like slayer's crest and naks Kiss the spider is considered by most people to be better than slayer's crest Slayer's crest is kind of more pvp oriented kiss the spider and more pve Um As you scale up to level 70 Haste percent all the percentage stats change to ratings So that haste rating gets worse and worse as you level with kiss of the spider And uh that attack power stays static Slayer's crest is almost as good as uh bloodlust bruce Or however the heck you pronounce it in uh from the badges So uh slayer's crest for anybody doesn't know uh slayer's crest is a trinket that comes from saffron It's a very in game item And if you're able to get that it's only slightly worse than a level 70 epic item. It's extremely good So uh any of those items, especially to give things like hit rating like knelt's tear. That's another really really big one Uh, there's a few other ones as well. I'm trying to just think of uh, let me Well, it's and it's it's it's so Saffron you want to have an extra one of those if the shoulder and chance are still good for a very long time As far if you're a caster, uh the current wizard oil is still bis for casters all through tbc The one you can get right now another thing and we're talking about like getting like oh just like it's like Oh forehead. Just go get bis lute from max. That's hard for a lot of Another another thing another thing you can do is you can get 20 marks of red base and worson gulch in althark valley On all of your alts and you can use those currency you can use those marks as a currency in tbc at level 70 to buy Level 70 pvp gear so you guys can pre-form 20 marks now Well, and a lot of the honor the honor stuff right get go ahead and get your marks now and then in pre patch in case you don't know all the ranking gear Becomes available to you as uh through honor like honor becomes a currency is instead of the current honor system and then you can use that to buy the The pvp gear to level up with so people end up having very good gear and you know in pre patch You can kind of get all that stuff sorted out and I just want to talk one more time about slayers crest Someone just linked that one scarab bruce doesn't change at all people use scarab bruce on rich 10 man her on lich king heroic to avoid infest because it's a it's a flat 15 value So effectively scarab bruce if you get it now has the same value now then it will in tbc Crazy story like this is one of the reasons why uh, I mean he's a good player too But this is one of the things that helped a theme get gladiator back in season two Like he was one of the first people to be like ah scarab bruce in arena in tbc on a hoi paladin He's really fucking good. Yeah, and so he used this in arena on his hoi paladin and it helped him out a lot It's a very good trinket. Yeah, well, especially because paladins don't have an absorb shield So now you're adding a mechanic to a class that just I mean this this is gonna i'm gonna get started in a rant and so i'm gonna keep it short But you're adding something to a class that doesn't exist and there's no other way to get it And it's big time right it ends up it ends up adding a whole another dimension Because if you get out a line of sight or whatever that extra 15 percent shield is massive Uh This is again why blood elf paladins are so good with the aoe silence and the the seal of blood stuff It's good that they're adding seal of blood to alliance the seal of the martyr But uh, blood elf paladins are still uh outstanding I think blood elf paladins will still be better in pvp with the aoe silence because the paladins don't have one and uh Alliance paladins will probably be better in pve now human paladins because of expertise and the Resist resistance to dodge or working against the dodge and parry's and whatnot um What else uh, so it says people are logging into ptr getting kicked because they're not supposed to be there Yeah, that's over. I mean, it's it's whatever right? I like I kind of said what I did is a warning because I think a lot of like Smaller streamers and stuff they watch and they're kind of like oh what everybody else is doing and that is a warning Just because i'm like trying to help people out here Like it doesn't it's so crazy for me to see people and they're just like stacked in naks gear Like you see people with like ati ash. I'm telling you dude And with my deminifil and the the castor shield i forgot what it's called This is so crazy for me to see i'm telling you it's because it's because think about it I don't start man. Like I should start rating naks. Well the the world first naks clear Happened when day one of naks launch on classic When was the first naks clear in vanilla retail vanilla? It was way later And you only had like about 25 guilds complete it So now you're you know, so what was the what was the week one clear stasis? Do you remember it was like 50 guilds 50 some guilds did a full clear in week one I don't know. I just remember watching progress and they owned on day one Yeah, so so there's going to be way more gear and that's why almost any one of these guilds that cleared in the first few weeks You take any single character and those raids that have been raiding the whole time And they're going to be like they would have been they would have been equal to the best geared character in any guild back in the day Yeah, it's just crazy. I mean you also have a selection bias where it's only the biggest no life turbo nerds Even play on the ptr or care to copy over. Uh, so these guys, I mean I play in the ptr all the time These guys are nerds. Yeah Yeah, these are yeah, those guys are of course. It's not me. No, so I'm totally different I'm sorry. So it's guys over there as losers Um Yeah, it's different. It's always different. Actually, you know what people are treating me gold I should just like actually well go into my actual classic character and just uh, dude get gold and then give some to me again, yeah, yeah again because Dude my all everybody who watches my stream is is poor in classic Yeah, because they already gave me all their gold and I used it because you are No, it's because they're it's because they're busy. They're raiding. Okay. They like they're all they're all broke You know, I mean, that's why I didn't transfer to pego I took all the gold on farlina from all the people that wanted to give it. So I was like, you know I want to All them streamers all them streamers. I'm gonna run to the bathroom real quick. You guys continue I'll be very very quick. I'll be right back. Okay All right So you're staying on pego for uh, you're staying on pego for tbc Yeah, dude, I got to say like I'm really happy on pego I I think I wouldn't change a thing about being on farlina of pvp server for phase one through five because world pvp is insane Uh for one through five and then everything after aq 40 opens Uh for me, it's kind of downhill and then in tbc world pvp is not such a great experience anyway with flying mounts and stuff But I mean the big thing for me is like a streamer Pagle has two times the alliance player base than any other server in the world There's a lot of people that play alliance on pego. So if we're putting on events or doing stuff or hanging out Like just finding groups for my alts and leveling. It's really nice to have that many player players. That actually could be good Yeah, I never even thought of that. Yeah This camera I have man. It just it does not want to stay on it's nuts Is the battery just dying or what? I have no idea like I really I I don't know why I feel like actually one of the reasons why it's it's dying is because Like it's so hard for me to diagnose the problem because it's completely like anybody that's done tech support before would know this Anytime that you have a problem that is intermittent that you can't cause to happen You can't trigger this effect. It's super hard to diagnose what it is. So I don't know if it's my obs I don't know if it's overheating. I don't know if it's my uh my power source I don't know if it's the camera being messed up. It's hard to know you can't yeah I can't reproduce the problem So I I don't really know what it is and then on top of that the issue is exacerbated by like 10 million people in chat acting As if they know what the issue is I'm actually the only person here who doesn't know what it is Everybody else has a great idea and oh look at that people are sending pulling terremis to devour over to uh to have it Kill me. That's great. Wow. It's just just like just like the actual beta Yeah, man, I was gonna ask like is anyone or or you you as an individual do you have like phase one classic wow Nostalgia man like for me that was the most important point I only have nostalgia for leveling. I feel like after I hit 60 everything sucked Like leveling and like logging in in the morning and like seeing all of your friends you play with and You know that I have I have big nostalgia for but not anything else besides that Yeah I mean the dungeon grind like because the meta was like 10 minutes old for all I can stuff like that that So well, we kind of stopped doing that towards the end like we did some dungeon grinding But the only real dungeon grinding I did was I did like maybe five or 10 zf runs And I did a lot of scarlet monastery because you know like 30 to 40 for alliance is just super painful But other than that I mean I ran with a five stack group of a lot of people that I still raid with Which is really cool to see, you know, it's like, oh you're questing and heels brad foothills with these guys And and now you're clearing naks together like that's what the game's about Yeah, yeah, hell yeah 100% Yeah, I'm pretty excited about this honestly. I do hope that they do new classic servers I think that'll be really cool. I don't think they'll ever really recapture What classic was again unless they do I know this is gonna sound really stupid and I've said this multiple times classic classic Were they release classic wow in the state that it was in in 2004 Yeah, like a like a 1.1 true progression. Yeah, I mean Dude, they're just they're not gonna do it because they're too lazy Like they're they're gonna be like, oh, we don't want to do the patch updates and go one by one Like I say lazy like classic classic and had doubled the layers and doubled the bots and double the double the spell batching Yeah, double the main Double all that shit, man. Oh classic inferno Yeah, call. Oh even better classic reforged. What do you think? There it is. There it is. That would be good. I think it'd be really good. I'll be right back. Yeah, go ahead Um, I don't know man. I think that if especially like right now Dude now that now that the game is like on It's like on the edge of coming out like it. Oh my god I kind of want to do naks like maybe I should try to do I'm telling you dude. It's like I've I've had this Like I like classic all this stuff like it's it's it's been there But there is like a recent like I feel like a like a crack addict like I'm like, dude I gotta I just I'm sitting here and I'm like, I gotta go Like I gotta go look at like wowhead and just like look at items and like, okay I gotta do this like get ready for pre-patch Because dude, we are gonna like doing viewer raids and stuff like it's gonna be so much fun It's gonna turn into like it's gonna be great. It's gonna be the freaking circus, dude Circus is coming down. It's awesome. I'm super excited beta is gonna be great too for its own reasons Pre-patch is gonna be good. The launch is gonna be good And we'll go from there, right? But this is like a very exciting time for For for all of us, you know, yeah I I agree with that definitely. I mean, I I'm just I'm just sitting here waiting Like in an anxious preparation for that. I just looked and it looks like my guild is doing All right there They said they said yeah, they're not gonna invite you they're gonna they're gonna they're not gonna invite you Without me, there's gonna be like no you can't join sign up. You didn't show up. Oh, yeah, I did Are you serious you dodged I forgot I well because like here's reason like they said the raid starts at two And I was like, oh man, there's no way they're gonna be ready before three So I just kind of while gone. It's like 247 And I you know, like that's kind of oh, oh, yeah I guess who wants to join the guild again Who? Ozzie Can you believe that he's he still keeps coming back Dude, they all they always keep coming back, dude They always keep coming back. That's how it works After I ninjaed his tier two helmet, man, that's you really did ninja that dps warriors tier two helmet, man How could you how could you take the tanking helmet for tanking over that dps warrior? That's just so disgusting I mean the shamelessness of streamers is just gone too far. I'm gonna make a read about this right now Dude classic classic launch had so many just ridiculous moments And this is this is what's one of those things like it's you had a bunch of people that were High-roading making things out to be things they didn't want to because they just wanted the drama And they want to act like something was something that it's not And uh, it's it was just so dumb, dude. It's so dumb Like i'm so i'm so overall that it's just kind of something to be stupid just tell them to be stupid Here's how i'm looking at tbc I'm gonna play tbc for fun like I want to play this game for fun. I want to enjoy myself I want to do all the content. I want to make great stream content and living up to the game's expectations Or some sort of random person, you know reliving their memories I don't care. I just want to play the game. Just play the game and have fun And that's that's what really what it should be right like you don't like upholding the sanctity of this and that like look You need the game to be the game because of the game because of the gameplay because of the design That's why like this weird cringy sort of You know abinaharad Like harrod harrod was the anti streamer like they're took our loot and took our germs I lost my rage but like all this stuff streamers can't come here. You know abinaharad Feralina has so many people transfer from harrod and every single one of them tells me harrod is an absolute shit show The server sucks. It's it's toxic. It's it's annoying people don't like playing there and like the server is is And they came to feralina to get and they they came to feralina You know why because feralina is an active server. The community is mostly good Which at first the beginning of feralina it was like 40 60 alliance horde split But then whenever azmin stopped playing classic Somehow a bunch of horde happened to drop off. I wonder how that happened That was the best part about it. Yeah, it's really weird Whenever i quit playing wow the horde population went down. Yeah, not the not the alliance But the horn went down alliance was it was fine And like we like I think a lot of the alliance guilds for the most part like work really well together on feralina and all this stuff and Horde everything i've heard from people that play on a horde It's just like they there's a lot of egos and like they can't get their freaking brackets right and It's gotten better But especially the beginning was really bad on horde feralina But hey again big surprise right like it's it's gotten better because people even What kind of people are there the people who are there to fight against? attention the horde like kind of kind of attracts those players I don't think it's a horde alliance thing. I think it's specific to that community Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I think was specific to the community that that just happened to be there Like I don't think it's a horde alliance thing Dude the that part of classic sucked it totally did and it's over and I don't even care about it anymore Yeah, it's over. It's over now, but like it's it's funny to look at right whenever it's like it's so clearly obvious Um, I don't know. I think I think overall classic has been incredibly enjoyable It still is like I still do my raids every week stay safe still is raids every week A lot of people are still doing it and it's really fun and now it's kind of like full steam ahead getting ready for Uh getting ready for tbc and getting ready for prepatch and betas almost I think it's all but guaranteed Right that it's going to be today I think it's got a really high chance. I mean if it's not today men like I'm going to stay on that guys I'm going to be on I'm going to stay on for at least probably like four or five more hours Like I'm waiting for this and if it comes out. I'm going to go until 10 a.m Or sorry 10 p.m. And then I'm going to go to bed and I'm going to wake up in the morning at 9 a.m Or 8 30 in the morning. Yeah, and I'm going to play all day just like asfand and I did in the classic beta It's going to be the same thing. Yeah, we'll level in we'll do dungeons and Yeah, I look I already got my tanking gear ready, dude. I'm ready to go prod and tank dungeons Fall do you think they're going to let you copy your character over or give you a 50 at template? It seems like 50 at template based off what we just saw right? I don't care. Is that is that what people said? I'm good with either one. I'm good with either one if it's a 58 template Pre-made copy that character over so fast because this happened in Shadowlands where you were supposed to have pre-mades But I got my pre-made because I got it. Yeah, I got it before they removed it. Okay, so I got I'm I'm literally I can't battle that launcher If it is guaranteed 50 at template, I think that's fine, too. And to be honest, maybe it's a little bit better I I would expect them at some point to do like a character copy for like testing purposes But for like a hype thing, I think it's better to not do that because Uh, it's going to make everything really easy if we have our like full nax geared characters or a 40 gear character is going to Let me tell a really funny story So esfand mentioned that prior to classic beta coming out like Blizzard flew us down to california to do Let the like we were there for promotional thing and it was like they told us we're under nda We they let us play the classic alpha for a couple hours So they have uh character templates and esfand logs in on his paladin and there was no two-hand weapon And Working properly then Dude, I was so mad dude. I was sitting there and who who was behind me It was uh, I think it was kyvax and i'm like Kyvax Hey, I don't have a weapon. Can you get like a gm? Can you spawn me a weapon? And they're like, uh Yeah, like God, yeah, I met him. I like him one of the nicest people you'll ever meet One of the nicest people ever me, but I I don't like I don't have a weapon like what I do And I end up like I ended up just playing like prod like the gear was so bad It was a random mix of like greens blues. It wasn't even a good tanking weapon I think I didn't even have a healing weapon It was just it was just stupid. It didn't like it was hilarious But that's kind of what classic is like for most people leveling up That's the experience like you're not going to get like Full best and do all the dungeons and get everything leveling up Now some people did that I did that a lot where I like to go and that's part of the the dungeon grind Right the fact that we did dungeon grinding. Yeah. Yeah, but um But yeah, you know, I kind of wish they they uh announced or that they they well, maybe they're still going to again It's all but guaranteed but um I kind of wish they were going to put out the beta tomorrow because so many guilds raid on Tuesday nights That like at least for classic players and I'm sure retail players in the same way Like I would have been kind of because now I guarantee if you're a guild leader raid leader, whatever You're gonna have a lot of uh, oh something came up Oh, my oh my cat got you know stuck in my laundry machine or like it's it's gonna be some sort of random Fire truck ran over my router like some stupid Like bullshit excuse. I guarantee you're gonna start seeing some stuff Yeah, those things you've never heard of just for people that end up dodging raid my fish is drowning I remember there was this one guy in my guild. He said all guys my internet just died And then he sat down and did the 22nd wall Like so obvious Okay, so The fire truck ran over my router. I um That that's a real story that happened to me where not to me, but I was in a raid I'm trying to remember it was in burning crusade Oh, maybe it was actually in pre-patch and we were doing molten core And somebody disappears and he shows up after like 10 minutes And he comes back and he gets on vent right here that you hear the like the vent noise on his mic And he's like hey guys. I have to go a truck ran over my router and this isn't like 2006 2007 So we didn't have phone like this wasn't like you got on discord on your phone Like he's very clearly. He's just lying and he just like everybody literally everybody was like what the hell on the gilded is like Uh, I don't even want to kick that guy. That was such a good excuse like he was obviously lying But he just he was just went with it. He's like, I don't even care. Just let him go Like it was rubies lying could happen. He could have been a truck Drove in his house. I ran over his router and he still had internet I just pulled up a wow head and let me see if I can pull it up right here and show you guys Uh, it says burning crusade classic beta playable briefly servers are now back down after yesterday's myth under misunderstanding apparently there is no actual Uh official statement about this at all The only thing that they've got had is the burning crusade classic deluxe edition, which is That's kind of crazy I think if they do a classic deluxe edition, you know what I think that they should do They should just have it for shadow ends like if you buy the deluxe edition for classic you get shadow ends I think that'd be a good idea You mean you get the actual game shadow lands Yeah, yeah, you get the reason is because there's gonna be a lot of people who are gonna play tbc or play classic and be like I don't want to play this right. I thought at the time And if they could just go to the shadow ends you still retain that player I don't know why they did that with classic like remember I was telling you about that Yeah, well and you saw it both ways There there's a lot of people that I know that started playing wow for the first time through You know finding my stream I stream a lot of variety and stuff now So people find my stream variety and they're like, I'll try out. Wow I spent that's fan seems like this game a lot whatever So they try it out and they they might start playing classic for the first time and they're like This is a cool game, but classic isn't really for me. I'll go try retail and then they end up playing retail I've also had it the other way around at shadow lands launch. I had people try out shadow lands and then end up moving to classic A bunch of people in in my retail guild that I made Ended up doing that and they just they now they're playing classic because yeah Some people end up you you always find they're they're two different versions of the game and this weird cringy like Ah, like classic this retail that like it's it's so dumb like you can enjoy both you can enjoy one It doesn't matter you can enjoy neither right there's plenty of people that enjoy neither too Yeah, a lot of people play both like a lot of people have that sort of social casual experience in classic And then if they want a hardcore, you know, mechanically challenging gameplay they go and play shadow lands Like the whole like classic andi mentality or the retail andi mentality. It's it's dumb, right? Simple, right? I mean, I like playing both versions of the game I think that if you try to continuously pit them up against each other or whatever It's just like why why why do that? And the both of the versions of the game the truth is both versions of the game are good Like retail is fun in a lot of ways It has great things to do like if you like doing mount runs and farming and stuff like that That's super cool. And there are other people who You know, they like playing classic. Wow. They think that's super fun They like leveling in that community of it and they can do that And I think the best thing about a wow sub is that you get to do both whenever you want, right? That's awesome. I love I still love that right to share it sub The sub the sub hasn't increased in of all the weird like money grabby things that blizzard and activision whatever seems to do Though it's kind of odd, but they they haven't increased their sub price in 15 years Which is good. I mean, I'm all about making that money in other ways. Yeah, they make the money in other ways. Absolutely But uh It is nice at least that they didn't increase the sub fee because that's like Yeah, that's like a whole other can of worms I'm kind of out of the loop. So I played shadowlands like a lot for the first six weeks or so and then I I was like, you know, I just personally I like classic more. So I kind of went about it, but it's weird because With uh, uh, battle for azeroth too, right? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And it's weird because I look at shadowlands And I'm like, there's nothing even wrong here. Like I think this is a good game It's just I personally like classic more and so that's what I do. So I'm I love generally Yeah, like how how are people receiving it now after five four or five months of it coming out like are people I watched the belgium video about this and it said that the numbers went down by 41 Okay, so that's insanely good retention actually for an mmo It said it said it was the same as the other expansions, which I'm not really too surprised about I think shadowlands what what blizzard should hope to do Is make the expansion grow over time and not just have this massive boom and expect to keep them But retain players after that initial boom is wearing off and just build up slowly Well, that that's ideal, right? But I think wow is such a big name game at this point that you're always going to have a boom And the hope has got to be that when you when you have this the the end of this has a tail, right? Where you go boom, right? Yeah, boom like this and then all of a sudden hopefully it starts going up Uh slowly after that and if that's happening then then that's a that's very good for the expansion That is a that is a successful expansion in my opinion because you're always going to have this at this point I think wow is one of those games where it's like people have these memories of playing when you're 13 14 15 And a new expansion comes out and you want to have you like you're so desperate to have that tingling magical feeling Of playing a new wow expansion again. Yeah, it's never ever going to live up to your to your expectation So people come back. They want to feel it and then they they leave after a month or two a lot of the time Yeah, I could see that. I think that's definitely true Uh people just yeah, they want to They want to have that experience that they had before and It's really not there anymore, but every single two years you're willing to put down 40 bucks to try and make sure Yeah, I think that's the quality. I mean, I was I was out of it for a while and then I ended up coming back Yeah, I mean, but I'll tell you what you know what brought me back to retail Was whenever I started playing and streaming on private servers and and doing all that and then eventually I came back to retail Otherwise I was done and I think there's a lot of people who played classic and then they eventually slowly came back to retail Because of that. I think I think outside of streaming. I still would have done that with shadowlands And I've said it a hundred times Shadowlands is the most fun that I personally had in retail since burning crusade And I that I quit at the beginning of wrath, right? So I didn't experience that and I do regret it I wish I had done the wrath raids and a lot of people from like a story in lore and Doing those dungeons and raids and everything like I understand why that was so good and why so many people enjoyed that It just wasn't for me anymore at the time My opinion is I think that shadowlands pvp is the best pvp that we've had since cataclysm And yes, I think that's better than mr. Pandaria because mr. Pandaria was way too bloated I genuinely think it's the best it's so fun It is I I haven't gotten my glad wins yet, but I got I got 2400 like two maybe a little over two months ago, but Yeah, I need to I still think I'm like glad ones and stuff, but it's it's I want to say that this is spoken as a warrior who people do think are overpowered right now But I could ask the question why How could warrior be overpowered if only 31 of people play it? Well, here's my question Why like why do you guys think it's weird that the guy who plays a rep pal and the guy who plays a warrior like Shadowlands pvp how how in the world could that possibly be the case? You know like why why you guys think that's weird? That good, I mean it would be like It'd be that good everybody play would be a hundred percent. It's yeah I gotta say like one thing that turns me off from shadowlands. I hate warlock in shadowlands It's too many buttons like I miss you know, I think every class should be one button You just spam that one button. Yeah And then you're excited you're really excited for tbc then oh tbc warlock is gonna be great It's just too many too many freaking buttons and retail man Yeah That's kind of the way I feel about I mean, I don't know like warlock I liked all the buttons with warlock actually, uh, maybe not in shadowlands. I haven't really played it a lot in shadowlands But I remember playing warlock in legion. It was so good Yeah, like legion. I do think legion pve was better than shadowlands legion pve I think was better than any pve that we've had since Missa pandaria. I I remember coming back in legion and fighting as warlocks and just remember seeing the Warlocks had this and death knights had this just this the the army Of of minions and just covering my whole screen. I was so mad. I was like get get this crap off my screen I'm so glad they I feel like the game in general was bloated for years And they really have done a good job of getting away from that in shadowlands I I I don't know I personally I like I don't know. I think that especially yeah comparatively to where Yeah comparatively to where things were at with like bfa in the same life cycle Legion in the same life cycle I feel like shadowlands is in a really good place and probably by the time bc releases after bc is over A lot of people will maybe be a little bit excited to go back to shadowlands play a little bit of that too And catch up with that because you're gonna have way more content then there's just the problem with shadowlands right now Is there's just too many too many grinds too many things you've got to do like for cosmetic stuff and and everything And maybe that's okay. Maybe it doesn't matter But I feel like there's no real thing that you work towards That has a stretch goal that doesn't just feel arbitrary Well, this might be an unpopular opinion I feel like when people reminisce about legion They're remembering the very end and the start of for me the start of legion was like It was really bad, but then it was ballin at the end. Well, what happened? So if you compare shadowlands to legion So like you know Go ahead Oh, go ahead Well, I was gonna I was gonna kind of double up on on what stay safe was saying Uh legion did have a very bad First impression on a lot of people right because you're like, you're not the only one who's saying that stay safe A lot of people are standing in chat too Where it's like, oh people shit on legion whatever was out and now people talk about how much they love it Well, they did the same thing for mists, right? These are wild players. They're always going to do that That's one but two is uh, whatever legion first came out They had a lot of issues. There was issues with the legendary system and The the and the weapon power was the artifact power Like people had a lot of problems with these things now by the end of legion They addressed a lot of this stuff like they they added a currency to where you could actually buy the legendary weapon or the legendary items and Uh, it was really good. There's certain things that I just don't like from a uh design standpoint Like I did not like artifact weapons at all because I think the most exciting thing that you can get in wow is a weapon Anytime like a you get a new weapon drop you get a bad ass two-hander And yeah, they weren't really for really underwhelming right so as we go ahead and say what you want to say I wanted to say that I remember whenever I would raid in night hold I would genuinely get depressed by raiding in night hold because of how good my character was Because I knew it couldn't be like this forever I remember I would be topping the damage meter with this perfectly smooth really clean great rotation That's just so well designed with this tear set bonus that makes it even better to play with these legendaries That are just incredible that maximize my damage even more and every single raid that I would do I would think to myself Oh, man It's not gonna last forever That's like warriors right now in classic going into tbc I Yes And they're all re-rolling warlock Unbelievable Yeah, it's warlock is going to be really really strong in in tbc Hunter is going to be really strong in tbc. It's going to be interesting It's going to be very interesting to see how it all plays out because We we have this memory and and we played the game a certain way back then and People are going to find out new things and it might end up being very very different It's going to be super different Like I remember even playing vanilla private servers like five or six years ago and the the meta then is so different than How far people min max and the meta now in classic like it's it's shifted And that's not because of changes between private servers in classic It's just like people know more and play differently and speck differently and use different consumes and different So I guarantee just because people are playing tbc private servers now a certain way or because they play tbc back in the day 15 years ago a certain way It's going to be totally new. Um, it's going to be It's going to be shaking up I can almost guarantee it. Yeah. Yeah, I can pretty much expect that too I don't know. I I just see I see people in my chat. They're talking about only 10k And these guys can't even they they haven't even traded me a thousand gold yet They haven't even given me a thousand dude Unbelievable only 10k gold Dude, how do you collect 10,000 gold? You barely even play anymore? You serious? Yeah, dude Actually, that makes sense. That's probably why you have Well, I uh, yeah every time I log on I just collect gold and I log off I also flask everything. I'm prepared for like three raids. You know, you know what else we should be prepared for is Uh tbc beta and uh, that is almost guaranteed to drop today because I just got the install for it Oh, I just got the install for it. So it is up for me Uh, yeah, it's up for me right now. I'm installing right now restart your battle that and uh Let's get this going and this is a good time for us to stop with classic cast guys starting Thank you so much for joining us today for classic cast It has been an absolute blast getting the show started again. We have the install too, dude You're here as was gonna get it. It's gonna be great Asman, I will go ahead and wrap this up. We'll get this installed and we'll get grouped up and we'll get going And we're gonna start this. All right guys, it's gonna be great Yeah, we'll see you soon. Thank you guys. Thank you for joining us And uh, great class guest. Absolutely Thank you guys so much. We'll see you guys later. Stay safe is also going live very very soon If not right now make sure to go watch stay safe tv as well and uh I'm gonna take a quick break while we install and I will be right back. Thank you guys so much Thank you guys so much. We'll see you guys soon