 APC crisis gets messier as faction nullifies boonies chairmanship and Aldo declares himself CECPC chair and the right group centre for democracy and development so security agencies have killed over 13,000 Nigerians since 2011. Well this is cross-policy. I am Mary-Anna Cohn. The crises of leadership in the ruling all-progressive Congress APC took a turn for the worse following the purported disbandment of the Governor-May Malabuni-led CETICA Extraordinary Convention Planning Committee by one of the support groups of the party. Now the Progressive Use Movement PYM has named its leader Prince Mustafa Aoudu as chairman of the new CECPC with mandate to conduct the party's national convention come February the 26th of 2022. Well joining us to discuss this is a former member of the Lagos State House of Assembly Honourable Babatundi O'Gala he is a S.A.N. and Political Analyst Biodom Shomey. Thank you very much gentlemen for joining us. It's my pleasure meeting you. Great. I'm going to start with you Mr O'Gala because you are a member of the all-progressive Congress. Why do you think or what do you think is responsible for the infighting at the national level? Especially from the Zamfara state's access? I'm more than a position to tell you what exactly could be responsible for whoever feels disaffection. Of course politics is a contest of a lot of factors that come into play including the power play. And perhaps in Zamfara from what I read in the papers the faction feels dissatisfied. That's the Yari Marafa faction about the conduct of the Congress. And they are not satisfied with it. And if I hear they may have gone to court and they are expressing their dissatisfaction. But so far as to say that these are normal practices in any political setting any context for power at any level, be it in the clubs, be it in our church societies people would always agree and some will not disagree. And I'm sure some will along the line they will also find one way or the other to resolve their differences. And I can only speculate on what I've read in the papers about what the Zamfara group that says is not happy or not accepting what is playing out as stated and it's always done to the Congress, the conduct of the Congress. So I'm sure the party at the various levels or through the courts would find a way to resolve these disagreements. Many have speculated that this infighting is a result of positions that people are positioning themselves for a higher office. We all know that Mr. President gave a nod to the party to conduct its convention come February. And the CECPC has had its issues over and over again. We've seen a senior advocate of Nigeria who's in your party first as Kayamu had called on the party leadership to do something to plug our loophole so that there will not be continuous court cases affecting the leadership of the party. But other than the fact that people are positioning themselves do you also hold that position of first as Kayamu about plugging loopholes to avoid court cases? What I recall first as Kayamu said was that first as Kayamu spoke after the judgment of the Supreme Court in the Zamfara case and if it might interest you to know I first came up with that position which first as Kayamu himself also aligned with me and then what we warned about at the time was that the party should take a period he will eat from the decision on the tenure of the Governor Boone sitting as the CCA and the chairman of the party. That was what first as Kayamu said that was in view I shared also being a past national legal advisor of the party because I'm the middle past national legal advisor of the party and we did advise that the party should take a hint and go back to conduct our affairs in accordance with the constitution of the party the Electoral Act and the constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. I also did write on that and that's what first as Kayamu I recall also spoke about simply put what we advised was that the party should be run in accordance with its constitution. Is that being done as we speak? Well, I'm not in a position to tell you from outside but from what I've seen it would appear our advice has not been heated or the CCCPC is trying to put structures in place to hit the advice. Perhaps that is what is also forming the need or the move to ensure that the party has democratically elected leaders as prescribed by its constitution, the Electoral Act and indeed the constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. Mr. Showami, let me come to you there seems to be no love lost between Governor Boone and Senator Marafa this has been an ongoing battle between the two big weeks within the party in the state many would also point to this bad energy or the bad blood between them as some of the drawbacks within the party now we also know that there are issues that have not been addressed between them if these issues are addressed I'm asking you do you think that this might one way or the other bring some peace and calm to the party especially in Zanfara state? Yes, it's quite clear that there's an intense battle going on in Zanfara state over the heart of ABC who controls the ABC as a political party within the state not only the structures but define the future the immediate future of the party within the state so within that context we've seen some other actions of the Boone led Boone as a factor in that battle and also Marafa there have been several interpretations of what has been going on involving also the leading opposition party so within that context one is likely going to conclude that it seems the Zanfara case is getting more complex therefore it may not necessarily get resolved as expected or as hoped either by the courts or through the party the Boone parties, the two opposing parties are bitterly opposed to each other and it seems very determined to start it out to the end how that will work out, we don't know but what seems clear to me is that it is most unlikely that the party leadership will be able to resolve this issue simply because Boone himself is a factor in this very dispute so therefore who else will resolve it other than Mr. President Mr. President in all good intents and purposes or as perceived by many is most unlikely going to get involved in resolving issues like that at the party we've seen examples in the past where Mr. President either stand aloof or will not play a significant role in resolving issues like that is most likely going to give the politicians to slug it out so if you look at those two viewpoints it is more likely that this issue will not be resolved by the party or by the courts but more likely that it will end up leading to a split in San Francisco APC but we already see that split as we speak and that group, we don't know how powerful they are but they have already decided that this is going to be their leader but let me take you back to the elections in 2019 what the APC in Zamfara State suffered this was also as a result of disagreements within the party now we're here in 2021 where the party's convention is a few months away from now should the APC have not learned something from what happened in 2019 let's not forget almost the same thing happened in river states that is still brewing as we speak the party at some point said that they were going to the APC reconciliation committee had assured members that there was going to be fair here in order to be able to deal with this issue but months down the line it seems that nothing has been done and just as you have said it might continue to linger but does that mean that this might cost the APC again some seats if not all in Zamfara State come 2023 well we should always understand that there's opposition parties in the country within the same party you have people of different opposing views on issues you also have major issues like presidential elections coming up politicians are likely going to meddle into each other's affairs with a view to achieve their own purposes so what you see going on despite the fact that we knew what happened in Zamfara how they lost after the past election we also saw the problem in rivers and all that but in the way of politicians that is not an issue for them it's a battle lost only to get ready for another battle another day and that is our politics our politicians view the issues like that there seems to be so deep heated division in the way that I do not think it really matters to so much then about whether they will lose the control of the state again to opposing party those who are in this they've allowed ego to come into heat other issues so they can't believe before that too much like many other party members or many observers that look have we not learned anything when ego comes into it then he becomes a friend and particularly there's a second agenda it's a plan to ensure that the state's APC party is not allowed to to remain as one then the other opposing parties are likely going to meddle into it and you have things more protected than what you respect so in any case whatever be that as it may one would expect APC to put their house in order you would have some areas where this would be possible it's the same story with PDP you soon begin to hear the same story about PDP the infighting within the party and the inability of the national leadership to put it together but I guess this is the way politics is played in our own client let me go back to Mr Gala of course again as a party member it's interesting just as Mr Shobanya said the intrigues and the intricacies and how politicking takes place within the different political parties but the APC rose to power by a coalition movement of sorts coming together with people and agreeing on a particular thing and that's why the APC was birthed now 2020 is around the corner campaign season is next year and there like I said there are competing problems that should not be again resurfacing but we're seeing it over and over again I want to take you to River State the case between the Magnus Abbey faction and the Minister of Transportation Rotimiya Meshis faction it cost them the tickets all of the seats in the 2019 election if I'm not mistaken and they're still having that same issue as we speak if the APC must be a formidable party not just at the national level but at all levels what do you propose needs to be done to address these teething problems which might become a big monster that might not be able to be tamed? Incidentally the cases you have mentioned both in Rivers and Zamfara happened under my tenure as the national legal advisor of the party so I saw it all first time I think we have connection issues there so I will throw that question back to Biyadu Mr. Xiaomi Yes I think you just help us answer that question until he's back Yes Can you repeat the question please Well I was talking about the fact that there seems to be a repeat of what's been happening over the years especially for the case of Zamfara and River State and I'm saying that the APC came together as a coalition of people who agreed for a certain reason whatever the reason had been maybe to unseat the former president or to give Nigeria a better face but they did have an agreement of sorts Now the APC to become a formidable party again in 2023 what do they need to do to address these issues you've said Mr. President may not step into the matter but what must they do in other not to lose all of these seeds come 2023 Yes I think we should not forget one thing that different backfellows came together when the APC was being formed we had a fashion of PDP you know called the new PDP the market APC CPC and I think one of the I can't remember whether it's one of the tendons APC you know a fashion of it so having you know merged together and it then became over a period of time we began to see some trends we began to see people developing along the lines of whether you are from the ACNM Congress fashion of the party or from the CPC fashion of the party even presidential decisions were being interpreted along that line at a point in time it means the unity was mechanical you know it was not a genuine unity it was a mechanical unity which was born by the desire to drive away the PDP and take over the party the leadership of the country now having achieved that we are now having a different situation where the leadership of the party at some states have been able to bridge the gaps and this has led to intense repeated intense division and loss of power in those states in rivers and in Sanford so the question is like you asked what needs to be done to ensure that we do not have the repeat of what has been the defeat of the party goes to states for me it is very clear it is most unlikely the principal actors will see this most unlikely the issue of talking about the division of APC is about trying to get a political or illegal basis to excuse themselves from the party they seem to have gotten to a point of no return then it has to be played out that APC is fractionalized now everything depends on one thing whoever emerges as a presidential candidate will decide will play a major role in rebuilding the relationship in those areas and I reckon that that may be the magic to resolve the problem until then I cannot see this issue be resolved because the issue of primaries will also for that decaying so at the end of the day we can only hope that once the presidential candidate matches it will begin the process of consoling all the factions and how is the party supposed to get to that point because of course the primaries whether at the local government or the states will be a building block for that presidential aspirant to emerge so of course if the foundation is broken but I quickly want to bring in the issue of the canoe APC between Ganduja and Shakao don't also forget that Lagos state we had the factional the congresses, the parallel congresses so it seems like everywhere you look there seems to be some parallel congresses holding every single in every single state if these issues are not agreed on how does a presidential candidate emerge at the end of the day do we see Chris Crossings starting all over again following the primaries when the APC had the elections the party leadership elections in different states we saw how the thing became so messy in some areas there were divisions in some states we were looking at it some of it are reconciling and some may not be reconciling some of them are people who are opposed to each other within the same ruling party over a long period of time and therefore it's a ploy to negotiate what will come to what's their own kind so it's not in all cases that the mission in APC amongst them fated to the party some is a part of the process of political bargaining amongst the political actors so I cannot see this this is the mission signing the the death knell for APC I don't think so I think just like APC, PDP is probably going to go through a similar thing and that is one thing we should not forget we should remember that both political parties membership are crisscrossed into each other at different point in time so they're likely going to go through it I cannot see the APC dying as an autopilot far from that we're likely going to see the two parties going through different crises and then imagine with their strong presidential candidate to face the elections as of today that seems to be the reality in my view I cannot see how that would be coming out Alright in closing I think we have Babatunde Ogala back here quickly I'll just wrap up the show with you so unfortunately the internet caught you off I was asking Mr. Sho we'll be about the APC in Lagos we remember the last primaries that were held we saw parallel primaries how united or how in agreement is the APC Lagos State being that the leader of the party the national leader of the party hails from Lagos Well for the APC Lagos we cannot honestly here we hear from like in every setting in all political countries there will always be disaffection there will always be complaints there will always be people who will seek attention there will always be people that will participate there will be people who don't want to rub on the back a part on the back rub on the head so I think and I'm convinced that the APC in Lagos is as strong as ever that is not to say there are not members who feel stronger by a few things who compare about what they but not too far I have not heard or seen anybody who has because of all of these the thought of having the party is the greater and one of the biggest complaints in Lagos who wants to be integrated we are not being carried on you know what you are about to possibly call it they are just people who feel okay just put us together so for Lagos I do not we have just one single leadership so far we cannot say that we have any functional chairman and then with the national leadership of the party both in the past and in the present our focus are there just one single leadership for the party and it is that leadership that as we run us through elections we run by elections we just recently had local government elections just a few months ago and we just also had our world local government a state congress so for APC Lagos we are going to show you it is as together as together can be it is as strong as it will always be and it is in working as it will be preparing for the next round of election in Lagos everything you can take that to the bank to not have any major crisis or any thing that is threatening us that is just some one trick like I said we always have complaints we always have difficulties we have complaints we always have people who face can get by a few things as long as it is where we are everybody has a right to prove to each other so for Lagos I think you can go to sleep and be assured that the party in this state is as strong as ever I mean you look around you which opposition even though you may consider you think I am disenchanted none of them will try to sabotage the party none of them will say I am leaving the party and none is taking any step to sabotage the party none of them is even contesting anything any kind of law we have to go thank you very much and by the way thank you very much and here by the show of meat is a political analyst thank you so much gentlemen for being part of the conversation thank you we will take a quick break and when we return we will look at issues surrounding police brutality seems to be a front burner issue in the country as of today when we come back we will talk about it