 And we're back. What's up everybody drew here that anxiety guy.com. What's up, Billy? Hello Billy the anxiety Jedi cross from anxiety United Decaffeinated decaffeinated this time. Yes, Billy is days five days without caffeine. I'm impressed and feeling good Feeling more awake feeling more alert, but I thought caffeine was supposed to have the alert and awake You know the side effect of it, but actually stopping it has had a completely different effect I don't know whether it'll continue. That's me next week. We're gonna call it it. I'll be drinking like Espresso And espresso with a Red Bull Just just intravenous drip right into the arm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'm not a caffeine guy I can't do caffeine it upsets my stomach to if I drink too much that's bad for you I thought I'd give myself another chance. We was on about it last week with the lifestyle choices and that yeah I thought there's nothing, you know caffeine is not a good thing. So Let's see all these steps. I'm taking every week by the end of the year Yeah, you're fine. You're gonna be like running marathons the British Olympic team British moms maybe if they bring darts in maybe that's the only one I could probably keep I heard they're gonna do that Yeah, just I read it on the internet. So it must be true Go to me just a quick Caffeine or a related story the gym that I used to go to I switched gyms a while ago And there was a guy you see all the time and you could tell he he was every once in a while You would see that he was he had anxiety issues for sure I talked to him one day and he's that panic attack sometimes in the gym except that he would go to the gym He's only like hardcore guys hardcore, you know, and you go to the gym and he would drink a pre-workout So any people listening may understand what a pre-workout is these stupid drinks and powders and stuff You buy in supplement stores and this the pre-workout It's just jam-packed with caffeine and like beta alanine, which is another like major stimulant and he would wind up It would literally make half his face numb, which is a known side effect of beta alanine. So people have a slight out It's not dangerous, but so this guy would have had serious anxiety problems And he would hop himself up on this pre-workout. I remember thinking man. Why are you doing that to yourself? Gotta get the pump man Wow, all right more power to you brother Yeah, I was gonna kick it a scene like I haven't seen him in a couple years since I switched gyms, but anyway Okay, before we get off topic too much today, we're gonna continue our discussion of exposure therapy and Jackie if you are listening, which I know you are we're gonna answer your question now Which I promised we would do last week, but then we got sidetracked as we were ill and talked about that Yeah, yeah, how you feeling this week anyway, I'm good my ears still a little plugged But you know it is what it is. I'm improving. I'm good. Good. No sniffles Good. That's what I like to hear. We survived. Yes. We did survive contrary to like Yeah, you know whatever pop in that popular opinion, but What your brain may have been telling you we have survived. So let me go into my inbox. I want to look at Jackie's Message that she had sent me essentially the question was we talked about exposure if anybody hasn't watched sort of our first Discussion of exposure you should do that episode 13. Was it 13? Yeah Well, we should it was just kind of an overview of what exposure is and especially what to expect out of it You know having good expectations going in but Jackie brought up a good question after we published that video and that was How do you make progress with tasks that you can't really practice every day? And she specifically talked about flying like getting an airplane and flying It's not like you could just decide to jump on a plane and fly around, you know every day to practice it So so she she asked, you know, how do you deal with that? You know, how do you do things? How do you practice things that you can't necessarily practically practice? Practically practice. So we'll talk about that a little bit and it just I think an extension of the whole exposure situation. Yeah, yeah so, I mean, I guess I'll kick that off in terms of You've you've flown I have flown I fly I fly now. Why am I arms tired? It's a good question the oh, here's Jackie's question just taking me long to get it up She says my question is related to recovery I find I am doing pretty well with my small stuff such as food shopping shopping lines out to eat traffic Etc. Etc. However, things I can't get a lot of exposure on such as going to the dentist or the doctor or flying in an airplane I find I wish I could practice the Stuffins I must censoring out of these things and beat them But I have no opportunity since they tend to be once or twice a year things. That's how she's asking, you know How do you do that? So I'll talk about those are good things like going to the dentist going to the doctor It's not things we do all the time. I'll talk about flying specifically because yes, I have been flying again and Here's the general answer to that question that we can maybe dig a little deeper And I don't know if you have a few of these as well, but for me I mean, I've always I have never been a fan of flying I have flown but I don't like it I've never really liked it Actually, I kind of like it now. It's crazy that sounds and I'll tell you how that happened I mean, so if I go back to my worst anxiety days and when there was some agoraphobia there and it was difficult Just get out the door the idea of getting on a plane and flying somewhere I mean, you might as well told me to go to the moon, you know It wasn't in the realm of possibility in those days or it didn't seem like it was anyway and it's not like I was able to practice flying because I really only started flying again in the last year and What I could say is the exposure work that I did and getting to the point where I could live a pretty normal life Even though I wasn't flying at all because I didn't I didn't really need to Plus I was still sort of hanging on to that phobia. I don't want to I don't like it. I'm afraid of it When the time come when the time came and I said that said I have to start doing this because I'm not going to be stuck here in New York forever. I got to actually be able to do it It was I'm not going to say it was super easy, but it became really easy and it's just because of the spillover So in improving my overall anxiety situation and working on just getting out the door back in 2008 2009 To where I am now living a pretty normal life. It became easy to tackle that task Just because of the spillover from everything else that I've worked on We talked we talked about it on the list that I made didn't I with the five things remember when I reached the fifth And I was able to do that. Yep It had a rebound effect and I was able to do so much more it opened up so many more doors because it's not the task That you're challenging. It's the feelings. Isn't it once you start to accept that you feel like that? That's exactly right. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right So in the end what you start to learn as you go through this process of Exposing yourself to the things that make you anxious is it's not the task like you said It's not the supermarket or in Jackie's case the traffic or driving for me. It was driving It's not that it's how you feel when you're doing it. So when you learn not to care sunlight shining through again There will have an angel as a guest in the next Yeah So Yeah, it's all right. No big deal. I would say that for me When you when you use your exposure to learn The reason why you do exposure is not so much you can get back to the supermarket. Although you need to go to the supermarket It's so that you can learn to not care, right? I'm gonna reiterate that and people say well We'll expose your make my panic go away Ultimately it will but that's a secondary step first is you will learn not to care whether you panic or not Yeah, so for me when I was time to get back on an airplane and start flying around which now I've done quite a bit of in the last six or eight months Especially this year is you know what maybe I'll have a panic attack on the plane Or maybe I won't but I don't care or in that's the difference. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, right exactly So so that's how that works and I think the same thing with going to the dentist or the doctor things You don't normally do to have any of those that you know You're talking about your five things you got to the point where I could do this What else what else happened? Well, they were really trivial the five things for me They were small things like post box walk into the local shop the supermarkets stuff like that But there's one thing that really sticks out and when you because you mentioned this question last week And it was my wedding so that obviously that's something that you can't do well. I suppose you can The build up to the wedding was probably Something along those lines, you know the anticipatory anxiety the build up for months in advance And it's just how do you get through that? But the the simple answer for me was that I just did yeah, and it was it was easier than I anticipated And I think that's probably a huge part of the battle with these things is just how bad you imagine that it's gonna be But when you actually go and do it It's never as bad as you thought it was gonna be that's true The anticipation sometimes makes that worse. I will tell you I keep using flying as an example because it's my example, but When it got to the point for me to actually do that I had I think maybe a couple of weeks sort of notice like all right That's it. This is book doing this and it was The anticipation wasn't as bad and I think again because my ability to deal with anticipatory anxiety had also been greatly improved by all the previous work that I had done and You know it matters and then what I would definitely say is even then even then How do you practice things you can't necessarily practice? I did it virtually so when I was ready And it's okay. The flight is booked. That's it or even just before the point of committing like I'm gonna do this I Spent a whole lot of time and you know the internet is an amazing resource I didn't buy like a fear of flying course or anything like that But there's a ton of people on YouTube who are flying aviation enthusiasts who take their their cell phone and record Takeoff and record landing and I must have watched a hundred different videos of people who had record record a takeoff It's my least favorite part. Yeah, what it did was it desensitized me to oh the noises. This is normal This is normal. This is gonna happen next This is gonna happen next and as soon as I will it was able to go through my head the steps of like We're gonna taxi. We're gonna turn we're gonna stop we're gonna accelerate We're gonna lift off the ground this this gear is gonna come up We're gonna turn based on you know, which way we're going Well, I was able to watch other people do it a lot by the time I got on that plane I was very nervous, but I Knew what to expect already and I was just this is normal. This is normal. This is normal This is normal and it went much better than I ever thought so When I did that I think my ability to actually Virtually practice flying by watching other people do it and acclimate to that was there's no way I could have done that in 2009 or 2000 I could have never done it Yeah So so many of your skills will improve as you do your exposure in the small stuff It will begin to lead to larger and larger things Mm-hmm. So that's what the only way that you can actually know whether you're ready to do it Is by actually doing it in the end. Yes. Yeah, yeah in the end And so I think one of the things that I would definitely say is for the tests that you really can't practice because you don't do them all the time You know do the best you can and as you're working on your other things and you become more Resolent and more able to learn and even process cognitively as opposed to having to do it because when we're in the beginning stages You could think about going to the post box all you want. Did it really help you go to the post box? You had to actually just do it right to post that letter myself, right? But but in the end as we get better and better at these things you will make improvements sometimes just by visualizing As you know that resolute so you build that skill set so that helped me a lot Remember work. I worked worked on visualization stuff visiting relatives before my old therapist like we sat down we imagined How it was gonna go right and just made things go nicely And just kept working on it. Yeah, and that helped in it. Yeah. Yeah, definitely when I went there I was able to picture how it was going in the visualization right and bring bring that to reality now instead of the horrible Images that I'd been making in my mind, you know, so rather than sitting there worrying about what's gonna happen get there and then think about that It was the other way around the therapist had you visualize a good trip to go. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, and then you were able to just play that script out Exactly, which is great and I think that comes that skill. That's a good skill to learn I can remember back, you know when you and I kind of first met and you knew the struggles I was going through I actually got in the car one morning and drove To the office that I had at the time that building and I remember having my little point-and-shoot camera on the dashboard And I didn't I didn't speak I did it in silence and I just I videotaped it I recorded it and I didn't post it anywhere I didn't share it with anybody and I kept that on my phone and I would watch that video again and again and again And it was me kind of being able to sort of walk myself through that trip Which was literally like an eight or nine minute trip. It was so short But it was hard, but in those days I hadn't built up that Resiliency yet and my skill set was still wasn't it was still building those things. So it helped, but it didn't help that much But as I get further down the road those things help more So you just get more and more capable as you do more and more of this work So maybe you're not Jackie maybe to speak to Jackie directly Maybe you're not going to the dentist But when you go to the supermarket or you stretch yourself beyond the supermarket and take a trip to a movies or something Go see a movie in a different town. They've been at that it will actually help you get to the dentist in the end So I think that's the answer. That's the answer to this question There's spillover you just have to keep doing the work keep doing the work and what I would definitely say And I know I feel like a rambling now is you can't Shut up shut up shut up shut up you can't be satisfied with like okay. This is fine I can get to the school I can get to the to the post box I could get to my office like you can't if you just stop there then your progress kinds tends to stop Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I mean I was thinking I was I was thinking about the flying thing And then there may be so many different things like when I think about flying if we're on the subject of flying It's not just the the flying. In fact, I'm not really scared of the prospect of flying It's it's the like the check-in the queues the amount of people at the airport getting to the airport And then obviously being enclosed on a plane with no escape They're the kind of things that I would imagine so it's not really a fear of being up in the air, right? It's more a fear of those things that I already associate with my anxiety wherever I am So it's not specifically flying for me. Okay. Well, actually that's good because along the lines of this Conversation as you work on those things. Yeah. Yeah, that's why I would imagine that if I can deal with standing in a queue in a Supermarket, it's no different to standing in a queue checking in 50 million fags in my suitcase Cigarettes in the US. Yeah, sorry. It's like a panicky now. Whoa. We're about to have a boycott Yeah Yeah, yeah, but you know what that would get better But what I tell people all the time to is Exposure is incremental like before Yeah, yeah, okay Let's leave it let it fly We can it's exposure is incremental so It doesn't work if you go from zero to a hundred miles an hour instantly So I get questions on a fairly regular basis like I haven't really left my house much in the last three months You know, I go a mile away to pick up my kid from school and that's it and tomorrow I have to go like 130 miles away to my best friend's wedding I don't think I could do it like well, it's a little late then so, you know Exposure is a tool that helps you incrementally rebuild these skills and get you back into like a normal life Yeah, so if you have not been anywhere for the last year and you're gonna try and get on a plane next week You have a you have a giant mountain to climb. I admit there's no magic thing that's gonna make that somehow easy I suppose it's wherever you're at with your anxiety So whatever's making you if it's a hundred yards down the road and that's bringing anxiety then work on that exactly Yeah, because it's that feeling of anxiety that we've got to try and get past Yeah, so it doesn't matter how far you can go or wherever it is It's when you reach that point of anxiety and panic That's what you need to try and work towards isn't it it is it is and as far as the nuts and bolts of how it works It's it's a I Try and generalize it like it's intent. It's time and then distance for me. Wow. What is going on over there? It's like somebody turned a floodlight on That's amazing But what for me when I was working on driving for instance I had to learn that the formula was not so much distance but time Like time, you know, what's the best way to put it the phone is like time under load if you will So I would be able to get in the car and say okay. Well, you know, I'm stuck in this half mile radius around the house For instance, let me try and get four miles away. No, that wasn't a I would try that and it would be really rough to do That so what I what was more effective to me was I'll stay in that half mile radius and I'll just go for time Because even that half mile would get challenging after 10 minutes, you know, I would want to return back home So it was time and then when I get comfortable I would increase the distance and then increase the time again and when that was okay Then it would increase the distance. So it that's this is it's an incremental thing And you have to actually do it and it doesn't matter what you start at It might just be standing in front of your the front door of your house For 30 seconds if you can't manage to get yourself off the sofa then just go into the next room for 30 seconds It doesn't matter what it is. It doesn't matter what the task is and as you get better at that task It's going to carry over to the next task Yeah, yeah I think something with what you just said about having like the distance thing When I was doing the walking during May when I was going for a walk every day I don't always feel more edgy when I sort of reached the halfway point So when I was furthest away from home sure that became an issue So I agree with what you say if you can keep base it on time So being out of the house because that is enough because I mean there's times where I can just sit out front in the car and feel On edge. Yeah, so it's just a case of sitting there and riding it out, right be on edge You know if you but but it's important for us to I think say that it's not we don't mean white knuckle your way Right, there's a difference if you're feeling yeah, yeah, maybe edgy in the car. It has nothing to do with like just Grinning and you know great yourself. Yeah, that's that's not it you have to learn to just really do the opposite which is the You know just just let it be there and don't fight it and relax and Then in a way, it's all about learning to be soft in the face of the onslaught as opposed to being hard in the face Of the onslaught, I think that's probably one of the most difficult things to get your head round, especially in the moment Yeah, it's completely the opposite of every what every cell in your body wants to do Yeah, you want to brace you want to fight you want to push back, but really you have to learn to be soft and And Yeah, so that we could do a whole discussion on that I think yeah, yeah, so Anyway, I think that's that's the very long-winded answer to Jackie's question the things you can't I think we had something to do with table tennis So yeah, so I don't know if you have anything you would like to add to that or your own personal experiences And well, I've never flown or I have flown but I was probably about seven years old when I did I didn't have anxiety Issues and it was good and I enjoyed it and everything was great The world was a good place. Yeah, so that's it get your back into plane flight here in New York We'll go have a beer. Well video that it's gotta be done. It would that will happen one day my lad is desperate to go to America So well, you're always welcome come on over. I'm coming tell them I said it. What's okay Let's talk a little bit for a second about your What you think your and you know to answer this question it just seems like a good discussion to the extension to the discussion but When do you get to the point where you feel like okay? I'm good enough and then you stop Do you have examples of when you have done that? This is enough like I think probably with that with a list of five I know I keep going back to it But the list of five things like the fifth with the supermarket and when I reach that that was kind of But it honestly really felt like it was enough like I was going to like theme parks taking the kids We're going out for dinner Every other day or whatever going shopping. There was just there was still anxiety I'm not gonna say that there was never anxiety because there was right and like in the queue for the checkout There was still anxiety, but it just didn't bother me I was at that point where it just didn't matter anymore. Yeah, but there was obviously still limitations But I mean we were even talking about going abroad like going to France for Holidays and stuff like that. So the fact that I was even talking about it That means that I'd reached a good place Yeah, but then it was like it was about three years ago I think my wife's grandma died and that was what really Knocked me back. I don't know why it was just major stressful And that's what started in the very first place was a stressful Experience so I don't know just major setback and then I just I've just basically had to start again From the bottom the only difference this time being that I Feel more disheartened because I've already had to do it once and it's like well if I do it all again And then some something else happens You know, there's always that in the back of my mind Even though I know it's worth doing it now. Yeah, it's just like it takes a bit more of a drive To actually try and do something Hmm and so that stressful event I mean, yes, it had stress and emotional stress and everything which can certainly trigger anxiety did it Did you retreat when that happened? Yeah, yeah majorly. So didn't do it. Yeah, I just stopped doing anything. Yeah, yeah, right So there you go So yesterday I was telling you before we went live. I had a discussion with somebody on Facebook That sort of revolved a little bit around that theme. That's another thing we talk about probably for a whole episode one day That retreat, you know, so it's part of exposure when you're having your bad days and you want to retreat backwards I'm not gonna do it today That's a it's a bad idea. That's just a bad idea And I know it's people hate when I say that and I know it sounds really harsh and you know I'm not trying to just like man up. I'm not trying to just say that sort of stuff, but It's retreat is a bad idea when it comes to exposure. It's a bad idea Yeah, no, it really is. Yeah, I think if I give anything to this podcast I am the evidence that that is not a good thing because that's what I've always done Like you stuck it out You went for it and you gave it everything and you just kept on doing it the persistence part Yeah Whereas I got to a comfortable place where there were still limitations Right, and then something else happened set back and I'm back down there and now I've got to do it all again Yeah, but that's the thing I'll do it and I'll like go out for breakfast a couple of weeks ago And I ain't been out since I've been I've been out I take my son to college like three times a week, but that's just driving and I've never really had an issue with that Yeah, but like, you know, I'm back there But I think what at least in my own experience what winds up happening is I don't mean to imply that you have to spend the every day for the rest of your life out doing crazy Stuff you don't but there comes a point where when you keep pushing it and doing it again and again and again and again No matter how you feel no matter what the day wasn't about how crappy that day was Sooner or later you get to the point where you almost don't have to do that anymore and you will maintain that that level You know at least I found that so even in a setback like the setback didn't put me back to ground zero again Because I had spent the time to really cement that progress in a way because it's a tenuous progress And I find that sometimes people when they're doing their exposure work will you know be really and I love success stories I love to get those messages. Hey, I made it to whatever we went to the movies list I haven't been to the movies in two years. I love those. Those are great But it doesn't mean that you're now continually able to go to the movies You better go again tomorrow night if that's a goal in the next night or the next night You spent a fortune on movies, but I think the point is it the progress can be quick But you really have to keep cementing it It's like anything else learning to play the guitar or whatever to keep practicing those scales again and again and again and again Even when you think you have it, you don't have it. Yeah, so that's the best You know, I would throw that's the tricky part because that's going against everything that your brain is telling you. Yeah Yeah, that's the difficult part. I think that's the part that I've always struggled with it's Why do that when I can sit here and play FIFA? Yeah, and it's comfortable. EastEnders exactly and it's comfortable But you know and I remember those days and it is comfortable and sometimes even these days It's comfortable, but you will get to the point where you could take a day off like regular people do like I'm just I'm tired I'm not feeling well. I'm exhausted. I'm taking today off lock yourself in the house play FIFA all day And it's just the same thing that regular people would do. Yeah And it won't have a negative impact on your anxiety situation and you'll get there You just have to keep doing the work to cement that progress. So Anyway, it was worth throwing out there as part of I think answering this question And so it's all about just doing the work again and again and again over and tenaciously And then it will spill over and then for Jackie You'll be able to fly or you'll be able to overcome that problem much faster than you think you would yeah. Yeah So that's that's that I mean you want to move on to some how long we've been going man Let's see here. We've been going for 25 minutes. You want to take some comments like we usually do. Oh, yeah All right, let me get my glasses on so I can see you again. I'll take mine off Spannering the works I Um, I got a lot of good comments. We were talking about episode 14 Right, so let's see The health anxiety health anxiety. Yes Yeah, feeling ill. Well, actually here's a question that I got Let's talk about Bella Donna for a second. I think she's commented on yours too sometimes Nice name Yes, we will she talked about you guys touched a little on obsessive thoughts I think that would be a really great topic for an entire video. It's a huge part of anxiety We should probably schedule that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yes, we will do that. Thanks for that comment Let's talk about a comment that I got from Philip. Hey Philip Hydro have really bad anxiety panic attacks. I'm at the point where I'm pretty much housebound and this was in response to episode 14 Thankfully, I have savings, but that will come to an end at some point So this is a big question and again probably worthy of its own episode So if you have any opinion or suggestion on working from home at least until I get a grip on my life I would really appreciate it I heard from previous episodes that Billy works from home What kind of work does he do I'm supposed to if it's not an impediment you want to take that a little bit I know people so he I guess they have noticed that you have said that you work from home So about about eight years ago I decided to just give something to try and like the only thing I could really think of I like using computers and that's all I just went down the web design route route route. I'm being American for a minute. Wow So, yeah, I just I self-taught web design just started using different software putting things together Started advertising it locally just like friends family doing a few websites here and there for people and then started getting paid off it and Hey presto, that's where we're at now. That was like eight years ago. So there's many different things that you can do I mean, there's whatever it is that takes your fancy, I guess I would always say something that is actually interesting to you because that's you don't want to be bored And like although works not supposed to be fun really although Drew's having fun at work right now. Look, I'm having a great time I work. Yeah. Yeah, I'm technically working right now, but that's it That's why I did web design found something that I'm interested in something that I wanted to learn more about and just rolled with it And just see where it goes FYI ewebs EW right ewebz Okay, add me on the PlayStation Network. My username is ewebs. By the way, Billy's really good at it, too So for somebody self-taught and you're really good job with those websites. Yeah, check it out So that yeah, so that's what you don't say start your own business from paying money. You're like super discount For any anxious sufferers. So That's cool. So that's what Billy has done. He's very good at it, too So I applaud that so I'll tell you how I answered Philip though for those of you who are not reading the comments This is I guess kind of typical of me. I said, hey, Philip That's a good question in the bottom line is what I essentially told him was yeah, don't don't do that. So And and maybe we could talk about that a little bit So you built a reasonably successful little home business doing web design and you've done some really nice sites I've seen I don't know how much money you've made or not made that's irrelevant, but you were able to do that We can all say that I think When I was at my worst when you and I first met You know, I was I had the privilege or the luxury of UL of me being able to run my business a Lot of the time from my home That in retrospect was a tremendous mistake. I would 100% agree Yes, it was a tremendous mistake. So as much as it seems like let me just get my bearings I'll work at home for a while while I'm getting my act together. Yeah Working from home isn't getting it doesn't doing anything for to get your act together Yeah, yeah, it in my I'm gonna speak to my own experience here That was retreat and it was a huge huge huge mistake So I struggled and was stuck for much longer than I really had to be because I took advantage of that luxury and said, okay I could just you know, I could just sit at home Well, I mean when all this first started I probably worked full-time for about three years And just made it through every day. He didn't really help doing that But I know that it certainly didn't help when I stopped. That's the point Yeah, so, you know, I'm I weren't getting any worse when I was working full-time for somebody else I was doing what I had to do every day and I was getting through every day So I probably would have eventually learned that it didn't really matter whether I was having anxiety or not because I'm still surviving Right, but then I made the choice to just I just jacked everything in and did nothing for probably about six months And then I felt like a bum I was like claiming on the social and stuff and it was horrible and I didn't want to feel like that Yeah, and that's why I took the step to do something myself, but I know that it weren't The right decision definitely not. I mean, I still I look now for full-time jobs, but it's just like I Just can't see how I could I wouldn't want to let a company down Very like phoning up every Wednesday Thursday Friday. Yeah, it's Can't come in today. Yeah, you know what I mean? I have the thoughts that I know that it's not the right thing to do Yeah, but I've got myself into such a habit now like eight years in seven eight years in I Couldn't do it any other way now, but that doesn't stop me from actually expanding maybe getting an office, you know Yeah, I think I'm going to work because that's Yeah, yeah, just getting out of the house. Yep. Yep, and I think that's a huge deal So I think if you read my comment those of you follow along and Philip I'm talking to you I know it seems kind of harsh to say that but but I don't I think it's a big mistake to really look at that whole thing Well, I'll just let me just rest here. Nothing happens when we sit still, you know, we've talked about this There's no like immune response that makes your anxiety better when you rest it doesn't Rest is masking it. It's just retreating from it and it just makes it harder And what I found is that when I would work at the house, I Would it was I was still almost white-knuckling my way through the day There's two that two points I want to make about that number one was I was always worried that the phone would ring Or something would happen that would cause me to have to go I remember you remember some of those days, right? I'm gonna actually remember in our first little group that we had sharing video of that like oh my god You're like I actually have to go to the data center now and do something And it just turned it into this giant mountain of like this seems oh my god Because I was retreating from it and I would spend all day worried that something would come up That would force me out of that home office and that was difficult And I think the other thing that it did in the end was It would have been it's easy for me to say just get out there and keep working and like you said you worked full-time for quite Some time and you just got through the day you just you just did what you had to do to get through the day I think your approach would be different now Like you know more now and yeah, it's it's not about just white-knock. I mean just maybe I had another two hours I can grit my way through it, you know The approach is different and it yeah, definitely and I learned that it was a different approach I couldn't just go out there and just just to be tight and brace all day long and just I just got to make eight hours Just gonna make it as it wasn't that it Yeah, you would have a different approach now. I think so when I say Philip specifically and anybody thinking about this No, don't work at home get out there get out there is good advice, but get out there in the right way Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say like that's not to say don't work for yourself. Oh, no, don't base it at home Yeah, or don't don't use that. Yeah, I mean look there's a lot of really great home base at home base business I'm not saying yeah, do that. Yeah, I'm saying don't do that because you feel like well Let me just retreat back to my home while I figure this out. Yeah. Yeah, it's not Don't use your career accommodating your anxiety. That's exactly right That's exactly if it happens to be a home-based business great But then you better get your rear end out of your chair and out of the house doing other things Three and four times a day while you're doing a home-based business when I sort of about a year into after I'd started I'd go I'd have like a call and I'd go and meet Clients I'd have to go to their offices and then like over the past Probably two three years since my latest setback really. Yeah, like That doesn't happen anymore. I went through a phase of getting them to come to me and now it's like if somebody asked for a meeting now Sorry, yeah, I can't do your job find somebody else. That's what that's honestly what kind of happens It's like if somebody wants to meet me now, I always try and get out of it So I've got myself into that now I dig myself into these holes and then I have to go through the process again to get myself back out of it And it's I know the mistakes. I'm making it's just I'm too bloody stupid to stop making them. Oh hardly hardly And I think that's um, yeah that first decision that says I'm not taking this meeting And I can remember very clearly getting to a point that it helped It helped me start to move forward to a certain extent because I remember very clearly thinking like this is not okay Like I can't call myself a business owner and entrepreneur and all these things and Retreat from that like I'm missing out on a lot of opportunities because I was in the same boat Like that's a good project, but it's 35 miles away. So I can't yeah, I don't want to get involved in that like that Yeah, I just I started getting angry at that like I'm not I can't do that So that helped that helped kind of get me going. So that's the answer to that You want to do another one from that I have real quick. Yeah, this is Bob I'm in no rush. No rush. Okay. We these are turning into marathons, but that's okay. People seem to be watching Bob writes for me, this is about the health anxiety thing for me It starts with a sensation a shooting pain stomach pain jaw arm chest pain palpitations Shortness of breath and dizziness that leads me to wonder. Is this a heart attack? Nothing else or how how it cannot be sometimes Else this can go on for days after the initial sensation, but we'll be revolving in my head wondering what it meant It can also start with a thought like today is the day I have a heart attack Mm-hmm, and if this thought this thought will rotate for days on and leading to large degrees of couch hugging anxiety So he doesn't really ask a question. It's more of a comment and Bob. Thanks for sharing that Does that sound familiar to you at all help anxiety wise Yeah, 100% yeah, that's usually what it is It's a sensation or a feeling like I mentioned to you my legs have been aching Yeah, the last couple of days. I don't know whether that's a caffeine withdrawal thing. We're like that's been on my mind 100% it's been on my mind. It's like what if what if it is something What if I'm not get I'm not getting like super anxious about it, but it's there Yeah, it's in the back of my mind, and it's like we've said a thousand times It's probably experience that's not making me go over the edge. Sure, you know But if it's something new if it's a new sensation whatever it is it does it plays on your mind 100% even if it only happens once and it doesn't happen again. Yeah for a few days No question. It's gonna be like what if what if and I think that plays to the whole we talked about it in episode 14 It's the health anxiety thing is so much I mean it revolves so much around cognitive work as opposed to the physical exposure work And that kind of leads to Jenny's question from yesterday So which method is best for getting rid of anxious and fearful thoughts Quieting the mind or replacing negative thoughts with positive ones And my answer to that was it's both those are those are both skills that you have to learn and you will use them both and I think at first replacing like in the case of the health anxiety The what if learning to replace the what if with some other thought is probably the easier skill to learn at first But as you go down the road you could actually get to the point where you take that what if just let it go out and just have think nothing And what I mentioned to Jenny is both they're both the right answer Just I would say probably yeah, if you start with the replacement thing You'll probably reach a point where you yes just to acknowledge Whatever it is and then you can just let it go rather than the need to replace it So I'd probably start with replacing. Yeah, and replacing could be exhausting. It could be tiring But you're right You'll get to the point where you acknowledge it and you won't need to replace it anymore like You know, you don't even think about it anymore. He comes in and goes. Yeah So both are good skills that you have to learn and that were my comments Those were my comments on episode 14 that came in. I'm almost fading into the background. Look is that so bright You're gonna wind up in another dimension if the light gets any brighter anybody that watches this video You'll have to wear glasses and put like some Lens on the one side So funny Sorry, that's all right. So I'm kind of out of things at the moment I think that's it. Those are kind of the comments that I got set between now and you know this weekend last Yeah, I was just reading I got nothing. Wow. No love for billy I think there was a few comments But most people make um Funny remarks on mine. Maybe they see me as the class clown, which I don't mind I'm happy with that. Well, you started the last video with the book in front of your face Which was really funny that was creative. Did I did I mention the heart this week? Oh, no, did I mention that nope This is my son because he started college He got like a gift pack thing like an introductory and he got a stress Squeezy heart and he gave it to me. So that's pretty cool. Very impressive Anybody wants one they can have this one I don't have any five thousand dollars five thousand dollars. You could will you sign it at least autograph it? Oh, yeah, hell, yeah So, oh, I know what we wanted to mention when this video gets published Yes, yes, what it's took us like how long I know I just well the heart reminded me so when when we publish this video because we record on Thursdays and then we upload on Tuesdays and it will be what day will that be? It will be the 10th Tuesday the 10th and it's world mental health day I wonder who that who does that it's like through the world health organization has declared that I'm so really sure but it's another pointless day Really yesterday was national boyfriend day in the u.s. Really really? What's your thoughts on the on the days that they do because they do it over here Like we have a mental health day and now we've got world mental health day Do you think it's worth doing my comment is always like every day is mental health day for me Kind of kind of I know we've touched on this before and we'll probably do an episode on social media Which will tie into that, but we have a long list of topics to cover on this podcast We need to start writing them down. We should we should instead of making them up five minutes before we go live So my thought on world mental health day. It's not a like it's not inherently a bad thing I guess it's not a bad thing. I just don't I always hate that awareness thing Like oh, we need awareness. Well, okay awareness is fine And and I would say this if you want awareness of your mental health issue And and it is anxiety or agoraphobia or whatever it is that we're talking about panic disorder And you want awareness of that let that awareness Be so that the people in your life can cheer for you and like support you while you're doing the work to recover I can't stand it and I'm talking just specifically about the topic that we're on which is anxiety disorders Right. I'm not talking about people who are suffer from multiple personalities or yeah psychoses I don't like it when awareness is all about accommodate me. We need awareness people need to know how hard this is No, they don't they just need to know that you're working on it So like I I'm just and I know I'm harsh when I say that but we don't I don't want awareness People don't need to know that it's this will knock you to your knees like yeah, it will but so what get up You know get off your knees. Damn it. So I just don't like the whole awareness thing. I don't I don't we're not going to find a cure that this is we're not trying to raise money to find a cure Like we know what the cure is already just to do it So that's it. Yeah. Yeah for people like you and me. That's what it should be It should be awareness of treatments maybe maybe improving improving access to treatments. That's the World world improving access to mental health treatments day That's a mouthful. That's a big hashtag. Twitter's going to 280 characters. So that's okay. We can do it We need that to hurry up I think one thing that would be great. You know what I'd love more awareness of we should probably spend a little bit more time Here in the u.s. At least when you're going through school You're in like middle school and you have health class and you'll learn about like sexually transmitted diseases and dental hygiene and exercise and diet and it's a cursory review I think because it seems like they should do it in the schools But even a couple of days on mental health would probably be huge To understand what anxiety is that it's normal every human being feels it. What's anxiety? What's depression? What do you do when you start to feel that way? It would go a I think a very long way if somebody just had three days of middle school That they could maybe remember and like oh, yeah, I remember when mr. Green told me this Yeah, as opposed to completely bewildered and not knowing what it is and and running, you know to pills and A lot of people are campaigning for it They're campaigning for it over here to bring it into schools and that and they should just you know Like especially when the numbers are rising they are rising they are rising So I think it's good, especially here. We just had another unfortunately another mass shooting in the us In Las Vegas. It's horrible. And when that comes up aside from the gun issue, which that's not a topic for us But you know, it always also leads to discussion of mental health issues because invariably that becomes a thing Well, it's not about gun control. It's about mental health and maybe that's true I don't know but and then we you know, we talked about a little bit But I don't know like just a little bit education would probably help people who are in our position a lot I would say so. Yeah, so you're not starting from dead zero. So that's my thought on world mental health day Don't know Take it or leave it. Yes. I'm waiting for world peanut butter day. I can get behind that one Oh, I'm allergic to peanuts. Oh, no, I'm not. Oh, no, you're not you might be in the time Yes, it takes to open the lid Because that was it I commented and said I mean I I said in the last one for people to leave there are rational fears And nobody did nobody. Oh, that's rough. I'll give you one when I was really really at my worst I used to have this irrational fear of being the first person to drink out of like another milk the first milk carton Right. Yeah. Okay. Like because what happens if so in case it was contaminate bam That's exactly right, which is completely and utterly ridiculous. But those are the thoughts that can stick in your head I had a really weird that I knew Because you knew exactly what was that I did the same. Yeah, another thing for me was like insect bites I don't know if you if you ever had that where you picked up an insect bite and this one could be malaria For sure. You never know. You never know. You never know. Well, there's got to be some mosquito here right now carrying malaria Zika virus You know what if we let those stuff those things take hold you would just sit in the house like wrapped in bubble wrap all the time You know, that is what it is I think I think we have exhausted our topic for today and our comments. We've been at it for 44 minutes That's pretty good. Seems about right for us. Yeah. Yeah So what to figure out we're going to talk about next time of as always if you guys are watching on youtube either channel Comments and questions are always welcome. Yes. Hit my website that anxiety guy calm hit billy's website Anxiety united.com. Did you didn't you just say that? Did I say that? Either way that anxiety guy calm anxiety united.com you'll find us all the same just open anxiety You'll find us somewhere tweet at us tweet at us facebook us. Whatever you want to do I'm busy. I'm playing fifa this week. Oh, he wants to join me. All right, so I'll tweet at me billy will be very busy The new fifa came out. He's a little bit preoccupied. Yes I'll put in one little shameless plug if you do find me on facebook facebook.com slash that anxiety guy There's also This was just on a whim. We were talking about it before I went on we were went online Yes, I started a discussion group to go along with the podcast just because Like you can I didn't even know what's the thing on facebook And we're up to 40 members or so and there's some pretty decent discussion Yesterday, we had a little thread going about positive stuff like tell us here. Let's share success stories So if anybody wants to pop over there, everyone is welcome to join Where is it facebook.com facebook.com slash that anxiety guy? I'll link the forum the discussion group also in the video description In case anyone wants to pop in everybody's welcome. I'm not selling anything. Just it's a place to chat How much? Yes And that's it all right, so we will be back again next week. We are done. We're out of here. Well done young man Oh, yeah We'll see you guys next week. Ta-da. See you Let me just awkwardly stop the recording