 Welcome to Skeptico. I have an interview coming up in a minute with Kevin Annett. Kevin's a former minister turned whistleblower of a large-scale conspiracy involving church and state in Canada. This is a story that, by the way, has been proven true. It's acknowledged by the Canadian government. And it's also a story, I think, about the nature of evil and how it is often hiding in some of the most unexpected places. Here are some clips from the show. A particular group is targeted. We have those groups as less than humans so we can do all sorts of things, all sorts of sexual abuse and rape and torture of the worst kind. We can do experimentation and ultimately we can do murder. The problem these days with the internet is that people are so overwhelmed by a lot of allegations but they're never really backed up with hard evidence. The thing that's unique about my story is not only that I'm still alive but that I've systematically documented this from the beginning. And the very fact that I've never been sued by anybody is proof right there because if this was wrong and I was making it up, that had me in court like that to shut me down, right? Most people don't find anything normal about that. Taking these kids, forcing them into these schools which are death camps and then knowing that significant emotional kids are going to be abused, physically, sexually raped, you know, then that's not normal. Well, I'll give you an example. One of the first forums we held in Vancouver, a white woman came and she was almost the only white person there was almost all native survivors of these death camps and her name was Mary McFarlane and she's described how she worked in the Albany Residential School and she got fired because one day she found a matron taking a piano leg and beating a little Indian girl to death with it. And so Mary knocks out the woman doing that. She defends the little Indian girl. John Andrews the principal fires her for doing that and he says anything that happened to that little squad would have been better than losing that woman because she plays the organ in church on Sunday. She talked about how they're now kind of even co-opting the digging up of these mass grave sites which are really crime scenes but they're somehow recasting this as just a way of oh yeah you know some bad things did happen there and some kids got hurt and that's really sorry that they died on those farm implements and we'll just move all the evidence over here. Well you know the best example of that is when we did the dig the only dig that's ever happened at a mass grave site at a residential school we I was invited by the Grand River Mohawks in Ontario to come and dig at the site of the oldest residential schools called the Mohawk School Anglican Church Church of England and let's just be clear that they wanted you to dig because they felt that they knew they knew well they saw it I mean I met Geronimo Henry Leona Moses other people who had dug the graves and put their fellow students in the ground we went over we got experts we got ground penetrating radar we had two forensic specialists coming in archaeologists did the dig within an hour we found bones and buttons wrapped in the roots of the tree because they used to plant trees on top of the graves and public relations they call it the inoculation strategy you inoculate people with an idea and then they get so used to hearing it that they're they're they're inoculated against coming to a conclusion and being shocked and saying wait a minute what's going on it's a gradual process of normalizing a horrible thing and that's how they one of the ways to do it right what was it like sitting with and experiencing the pain of others because I think that's something else that we're really going to be honest most of us shield ourselves from you didn't when I was in the church and people would get up and speak from the pulpit it shocked me but it didn't rock my world yet because it was still abstract it's only when I lost my own children and I saw how the church brutally kicked my children from me that began to be open to the fact that they may have hurt other children because I saw what they did to my own children and me so you need a personal experience to hang it on right what about beyond that because you've gone much further I mentioned satanic ritual abuse which immediately is going to shuttle out of people down because they've been conditioned to think that that can't possibly be true it's satanic panic it's all the rest of this stuff that if anyone investigates I find that it's that's not the case that it is a reality how do you get there you haven't experienced that well I've had experience when I was a minister in Porto Bernier I took part in the nexusism and then I conducted other ones I came face-to-face with something and it's very difficult to try to put into words but it confirmed me with the reality of this this evil do you believe that people have spiritually transformative experiences and do you believe that those spiritually transformative experiences can be through Christ is that real I can't well I can't judge words really not I can't look into another person's soul and say you know I know what they're going through I don't have the religious belief that one person can do that for another but put it this way Frederick Douglass the slave he led the abolitionist movement he in his biography he describes how his slave master had a religious conversion became a Methodist born-again Methodist so he expected the slave masters to then release all the slaves and no he became even more brutal because he had God on the side and if you have a genuine spiritual thing what do you need a church can both be true can I mean look I'm not a Christian I'm not religious so I'm kind of playing devil's advocate here I've been a minister I know exactly what you're talking about the majority of my parishioners were there because it's a social club just a spiritual calling is very personal and it's not part of a group Quakers have a saying God gets lost in a crowd and I think that that's true but it boils down to a simple moral and legal fact that if you're part of an institution that's committing crime it doesn't matter what your spiritual beliefs are you're part of a crime you're putting money in a collection plate you're associated with them you're an accessory to a crime so we say to people what does that have to do with the spiritual calling you can't be part of that if you're a moral person forget about spirituality let's just talk about morality and ethics are you really going to be associated with these churches that have the centuries of blood on their hands and they're still doing these crimes I mean I don't think any moral person would do that and so to me it boils down to that not spirituality right ultimately our minds can deceive us because they're conditioned they're programmed they're influenced but our heart mine doesn't that consciousness within our own heart and soul I say to people the last thing you want to do is isolate in the room isolate in a life think that a counselor is going to help you you know when I tell that famous story of William Coombs the native guy who when we occupied the church he was there with us even though it was tortured like he heard the chant sound of a church bell he'd start getting sick because the way he'd been tortured in these places yet there he is in church with us the day we occupied it and I said William how could and he was really happy he was handing out flyers to people he had no fear he wasn't afraid of these priests and he said I didn't want to let you guys down I didn't want to be left out now that that love that desire to be with us we did that we help heal in that day not some counselor but all of us together showing we're not afraid of these people we're not afraid of the truth we're going to stand here and help and love each other in practice right where it counts and that he stopped drinking that week that's bloody oracle you know if you knew his situation um but we did that miracle together and that's to me I you reconnect with that common blood heartbeat and uh and you find that nature everywhere welcome to skeptico where we explore controversial science and spirituality with leading researchers thinkers and their critics at this point most of us are at least a little bit tired of stories about social injustice but one of the unfortunate consequences of the social justice warrior thing is the proportionality of it take for example today's guest in 1994 as a minister of united church in british columbia kevin annette walked into what he probably thought was his dream job now that job turned into a nightmare in a 25-year ordeal as he became a whistleblower of some of the most horrific holocaust level crimes in canada's history and worse yet chances are you've never even heard about any of them you know on this show i'm always drawn to stories where one person can make a monumental difference and kevin annette is certainly one of those people besides being an award-winning journalist and filmmaker he's also become a continuous voice for justice in a very important way and i think as we were just chatting about a minute ago his story is critical to understanding our culture in general so it's a bit of a long introduction there but kevin it is a great pleasure to have you on skeptico and thanks so much for joining me thank you alex i appreciate the the time to be able to do so kevin of course uh we're going to talk about your books i've just popped one of them up here murdered by decree and people can also check out murder by decree.com which stays up to date on a lot of things that are going on in your world but you know i think the easiest place to start is this history the history of what happened i have a short clip i'm going to play from the movie well i want to let people know this movie unrepentant is available on youtube let me play this clip unrepentant reveals canada's darkest secret the deliberate extermination of indigenous peoples and the theft of their land under the guise of religion this never before told tale is seen through the eyes of a former minister who blew the whistle on his own church after he learned of its murder of thousands of children in its indian residential schools what happened to the thousands of children who died or disappeared while in canada's indian residential schools why have canada and the church is responsible for their fate refuse to say what happened to them and stayed silent in the face of hundreds of eyewitnesses who claim seeing murders and experiencing obscene tortures in these schools so kevin that's again a very brief clip from the movie please start and tell us the story just as you have told us at this point kevin has a lot of other interesting shit to say and we'll hear about it in just a minute so many times from the beginning well there's a lot i think i'll touch on on the main points that are relevant to the way you you set up the interview i was like a lot of canadiens even though i was from a young age we're very involved in politics and and social justice issues and all that i was still completely ignorant of our own genocide in our backyard and that's not accidental the histories have been white clean it resides only in the memory of the survivors and i began to meet some of them i was ordained in the united church when in 1990 by 92 my young family and i were in port al bernie which is right on the west coast of canada in vancouver island and i'll never forget the first time anyone told me about this it was the first week i was on the job and i was hired to go out and kind of bring new people into the church because it was a dying congregation saint andrews the united church and um the i got a call from a native guy called dany gas he wanted to get married and went out to talk to him i didn't know his home was right next to the former what they call residential schools these were internment camps and can i just interject at this time you don't you don't know any of that stuff you don't know that the the schools are internment camps you don't know that which you later document very carefully in in proceedings that you submit to court that the death rate is what you said 50 don't come back and then through testimony you find that they are being murdered and they're being tortured and experimented upon and all the stuff you hear about like holocaust level kind of stuff right right and so no i didn't even know about the existence of these places right um dany gas said uh you know i asked him why there were no indians in any of the churches kind of naively like you know a third of the population's native you don't see them working anywhere and like why aren't why isn't there that contact he didn't say anything for a long time he was looking out the window at the former school and uh because the buildings are still standing there and uh finally he said they killed my best friend in that school and beat him to death and then they buried him in the hell of back that's why they don't want to send their churches and so i mean that blew my mind i just kind of now i told somebody in the church that right away they say we'll believe them uh they're just mad at us for taking their land they're just making all this stuff up because at that point this was uh summer of 92 my first started working there um there have been no court cases the court cases didn't start for four years later so the churches were free to say oh no it's all made up right uh they only started talking admitting stuff when they were getting sued they kept kept it covered up before them right so that led me down the trail and those lawsuits you are instrumental to opening up the possibility to people even having those lawsuits and i go back to even your story i want to go back to that when this guy says this human being this fellow potential member of the congregation says i want you to marry me but the church was responsible for murdering one of the reasons we can ignore this guy is because he's indian right because if it's a white person that says that there there's we we at least have to pause but in this case we can just kind of dismiss it it's an indian so you know they make stuff up it's that's been part of the problem here is that because it seems to be occurring to a foreign group most white people can't relate to it even though this was happening and still today happens to lots of white children too you know the same system exactly telling all of this institutionalized murder i mean it's going on but the natives who are like the canary in the mineshaft a lot of the stuff that's happening now that all of us was tested out on them first and that's another thing i found out but yeah you're quite right the first lawsuit began in actually right after i got fired because the short story here is that i started bringing native people in they began to share more stories in one of my latest books this at the mouth of a cannon i you can get this on amazon i talk about how the issue that actually got me fired was not just letting natives speak from the pulpit about these crimes in the residential schools which i did but um i found out that the missionaries of my former church had grabbed all this native land originally i mean given to it by the british crown right other people's land then later they sold it off for a lot of money to like logging companies uh all sorts of big money involved right and i wrote a letter about that and i was out on my can immediately because you know you you're stepping on the big toes bunny toes behind the church but um after that within a half a year of me getting fired these lawsuits began and that's when the church really moved on me because i was sharing information with the lawyers hard evidence from that and be given to me that yeah this wasn't just rape and beatings this was killings medical experimentation mass murder um that's now being admitted to some degree you know so one thing led to another right yeah there's so many things to to touch on there i i kind of hardly know where to begin i do want to emphasize the fact that as we talk about this there's going to be a certain casualness to the conversation that is going to throw people off i mean we're talking about again holocaust level and i like to throw that term out there because that's really what we're talking about and if we when we put it in that context it upsets people but that's truly in every respect uh you know a particular group is targeted we have those groups as less than humans so we can do all sorts of things all sorts of sexual abuse and and and rape and torture of the worst kind we can do experimentation and ultimately we can do murder and then this thing gets so deep and when we talk about being acknowledged and i put that in quotes because that's a whole other story too and it speaks to how conspiracies happen and how part of the process is to kind of get in front of the story and knell the story and soften the story and change the story and you've seen that and experienced that as well and then the other thing i thought we might talk about so that people can wrap their heads around what really happened is that what you just touched on it's good for business it's not good for business to have any population that you need to support or provide services for the less people you can provide services for kind of the better it is for your business really and the but the other side of that that i think we want to touch on is that there's an evil to this that goes even beyond just the usual money grubbing how can i kind of make more money for myself human greed kind of factor do you want to speak to any of those topics well yeah there's a lot there but what i'll do is take it piece by piece here the problem these days with the internet is that people are so overwhelmed by a lot of allegations but they're never really backed up with hard evidence the thing that's unique about my story is not only that i'm still alive but that i've systematically documented this from the very beginning and the very fact that i've never been sued by anybody is proof right there because if this was wrong and i was making it up that had me in court like that to shut me down right they've never contested it even when we went and set up a common law court in europe and put the pope and queen elizabeth on trial even then they didn't dispute it because i knew it was all true what you have to do is um it's like when i when i was in law school for a year before i dropped out uh one thing i learned you know they told me in legal process class when you're in court if the evidence is on your side you argue the evidence but if the evidence goes against you attack the witnesses well you know let me interject something the first thing i always do when i have a guest on the show i i usually do because sometimes i've failed at my own expense when i haven't done this is i always go and look at the other side so i could go and look at kevin and net liar because that comes up all the time kevin and net liar you know and i went and looked at that data because it reveals so much it takes about five minutes of kevin and net liar stuff to just see how flimsy all those arguments are and as as you just pointed out one thing that you do kevin you not only document that you name names we're going to play a couple clips later you say this nadian monti did this and you immediately go well if that's not true then there's going to be a lawsuit and then you name another person you say if that's not true there's going to be a lawsuit i talk about this in my whistleblower manual uh i call them the three d's if you're a whistleblower you go after you with deny discredit and distract they have to deny everything they've got to distract the issue away from the evidence and they've got to discredit the person saying it but they can never use the evidence so they always focus on the on the person and try to just make people afraid of them and i say look it's not about me just go to murderbydcree.com look at the hard evidence look at the 50 death rate over half a century that's an issue never no one in canada ever addresses the media government churches anyone because they know there's proof right there why would the children in 1903 be dying at the same death rate that they are in 1952 half a century later unless it's deliberate because if you've got a high death rate from from communicable disease you you fix the situation the death rate comes down but no they're taking the healthy children putting them in with the sick and letting them die off they did that 50 years apart that's an intent to wipe out children so no one ever addresses that they just say oh kevin's making it up well how can i i'm in here we show documents from the dr peter brice you've documented documents that half the children are dead after less than a year and and that's the same figure decades later so you know i'm not right there they can't refute it so they got to just distract from it they got to get people forgetting those things you'll never see that reference anywhere in a canadian curriculum and a movie on the residential schools the only people talking about it is the movement we started right true enough and uh if again i i i just can't say enough that there's no way we can cover the story the evidence that kevin and his group and other people who've joined his cause have a mast in this show but if you go to if you read his book and if you go to a murder by decree where he updates this stuff you will see documents that he's submitted to court that prove this the application for admission or something like that into these residential schools that clearly states some of these things but i want to come back and i want to talk about this whistleblower thing that you just brought up because i think whistleblowing is misunderstood it's gone from this very kind of positive social change in your story you talked about at the very beginning when you got fired but that process actually took a while right well they um you see you don't see yourself as a whistleblower first i mean i again naivety has a place because if we were really aware of what we're up against we'd never do this stuff like simple self-protection concerned about our children would call back so it has a place our ignorance can be a great virtue in the long run it's like that yin yang there's there's kind of the light in the shadow right but anyway um they tried the uh you know the velvet glove and the hammer approach first day they said kevin you can uh stay in the church but you've got to have psychiatric evaluation and be retrained okay um so the implication is if i went along with that i would be admitting that i'm kind of crazy to have even mentioned these things that way they're all off the f**k this is just kevin's imagination uh children never died it was just kevin imagining these things so i said no to that i said no there's no basis for a second exam and so at that point they brought the hammer down they went to my wife they said we're never going to let them work again and that first thing you do you go to the wife and the people around this guy and take them out and take away any possible support they got my wife to secretly plan a divorce against me they eventually got the children my two daughters uh it's interesting because they assured her that she would get the children and family court which means they had the collusion of the family court system in british columbia because at that point he realized well then we're up against the crown here the government like we're not it isn't just some united church people scared about their dirty laundry coming out there was a whole i went up against the empire almost immediately and that was proof of that right because the government and the church they're all involved in these crimes and so i started getting late night visits from the rural canada amount of police you know asking just harassment you know um i wasn't allowed to work anywhere i went into poverty i lost my kids i tried retraining at the university and and they blocked my funding there i mean it went on and on like that right yeah hold on because there's a lot to this story i want to know if we can drill into this a little bit you you're doing to put it in christian terms you're doing god's work you're coming serving a population what is the i want to know what this is like for you because you had to feel like you were following your calling you were you were bringing these people up in re reintroducing them to the church what a wonderful thing people who've been alienated from the church and you're bringing them back in you have to know i didn't make sense because if they were smart if they were smart they would have offered me another job they wouldn't have come down on me because the more they came down on me the more i got educated and the more i didn't stop because you take away you see this is a big mistake tyrants always make they think if we crush the people we're gonna win the more you try to crush somebody most people will be taken out but there's a small minority who learn and who get tougher and who become veterans and say well no i've lost my children i've what else can i lose what else it doesn't matter do whatever you want to me i'm not stopping now um sun su talks about that in the art of war he says never force your enemy into an in the situation because then they get a real resolve they know they're gonna die they'll fight to the death at that point which is what i'm doing i i get that i get that and i'm totally blown away that that you took that path because very few people take that path and and most people find a way to jump out of the plane you know way sooner than that but i just do want to go back to that for one more minute because i want to know we want to talk about the spiritual part of this and the deeper spiritual part and i want to know for you as a christian as a minister as a reverend you know a leader of the church you're doing the right thing in if through all your training and through your deep personal beliefs i have to believe at this point and you're bringing these people back to church or bring these people back to christ for whatever that means let's just do it you're setting up a food bank to serve these people you're doing all the things you're supposed to do and yet and and then when these people come up and they start talking from the pulpit you your heart has to sink every time you hear these stories and you go and you're wrestling with how has my church been complicit in this what is that transformation process like before they even come with the velvet fist you know i mean yeah but i wasn't really i mean even then as a minister i knew the history of christianity okay even if people like to ignore it i knew that that i mean just the catholic church alone is being responsible for more telling the history than any institution so i knew it was uh not even just a dichotomy it was a lie there's nothing more of a lie than organized religion because it's saying one thing on sunday and doing the exact opposite during the week and i learned quickly that the church is is about big money it's about i mean every churching that i've encountered if you scratch beneath the surface you find they're all involved in money laundering usually for organized crime they have a tax exempt status uh they've they're all involved in child trafficking and child abuse it's rampant i get calls every week for people the Mormon church uh the um not just all the mainstream churches jehovah's witnesses it's it's and religion provides a great cover for crime because people think oh that's the last place it's going to go on they're all moral people aren't they no it's the opposite so i had to learn all that on the ground and i'm glad i learned it i wouldn't go back to that state of ignorance for anything right fair enough tell you what i did want to play uh another clip for folks at the time this mounty threatened me uh peter monagu he's head of e-division secret ops they call it black ops whatever um he actually these guys are funny you know because they think they're god and they can't be touched so they like to boast to you about what they're going to do to you and what they can do and everything so monagu said to me that um you're never you're not only never going to work in this country again but nobody is ever going to know no one's going to remember your name after 10 years they don't talk about murder rape torture they talk about abuse and being estranged from their families and you know all the soft language um uh after that date my name was swabbed out of the media you never see it again i was like in apartheid south africa they when you're banned your name could never be mentioned in the media it's why the south africans came to canada to set up their apartheid laws they just studied what we did on the indian reservations and with the indian act and modeled the apartheid laws on on canada okay there's there's a lot there to unpack i want to let people know that that is uh about an hour long interview you have available on youtube again excellent if you want to check it out uh please do kevin just talks very matter of factly but again with a ton of evidence to back up what he's saying but do you want to speak to the threats the bullet i understand there is a bullet left on your like kitchen table you were directly threatened that you'd be killed i mean talk about that well i mean there've been a lot of things i mean and it's it varies it usually increases when i start getting more public exposure when we expanded to europe and began to work there and and help bring down pope benedict in 2013 then it really intensified right and then it was physical assault it was a people disappearing who i was working with the whole gamut you know like uh they can't strike at somebody with a lot of light on them anybody who's got a lot of exposure they tend to just hit the people around them and so it kind of goes up and down a lot but the reality is if you're going to kill somebody you do it you don't send them a death threat if you're going to sue them you'll do it you won't say i'm going to sue you right i mean a lot of this is decided to scare and intimidate people and so i don't even think about it anymore i know that a lot of people who are even in the system agree with me i've had cops people in the churches they all say yeah it's good this is coming out but i can't be associated with it right i'm worried about my pension or whatever so it the impact we have is much greater than we realize that's why they constantly need us to back up they try to scare us into backing off all the time and if you don't the system is remarkably fragile and vulnerable and you just have to keep pushing and we found that we occupied these churches and once we started going in on sunday morning and occupying them and talking about the dead children within a couple of weeks the government started talking about issue and apologies the church has collapsed you know we we kind of coup against them in a big way just by going in threatening what they love that's what sansu says in the art of war doesn't matter how small you are if you threaten what a larger enemy loves and and holds dear their strength is nullified and they have to respond to what you're doing and that's exactly that was born out and everything there was maybe two dozen of us across the country and we forced out this truth right so it's uh it's a real lesson for us and the the powers that be or the powers that pretend to be don't want us to learn that lesson because there's a great strength in the people uh sleeping giant if we awaken to our real power this shit is gone i mean we're we can just change the world tomorrow if we woke up to that right maybe let's talk some more about that i'll tell you where i want to go next and then i'll let you maybe pick after that but the topic of conspiracy is always interesting to me and it comes up a lot on this show i'm amazed that so many people really don't believe that conspiracies of this scale can even happen they just say that one of their first things is i don't believe it because i don't think it could exist so i think one of the things that you stand witness to is that yeah you can have these huge large-scale conspiracies involving the highest levels of government involving the inner workings of these religious institutions that will have almost the ultimate power inside our culture and they do exist so do you want to speak to conspiracy well you know it's a funny word because it's become a pejorative kind of term but under the law conspiracy is three more people gathering and intending to cause a crime it's a term criminal conspiracy you know and and so it's not some imagined thing right the way it operates in practice is the the people with money and power don't have to conspire they just make arrangements right we don't know about those arrangements and we learn about them and our whole world is blown away because all we live um we're everything is so normalized the crime is so normal to us that it doesn't seem like a crime what do you mean what does that mean to you in this case because most people most people don't think what you're exposing they wouldn't find anything normal about that taking these kids put it forcing them to into these schools which are death camps they know that there are gonna that a significant portion of those kids are gonna die and then knowing that significant motionless kids are going to be abused physically sexually raped you know then that's not normal well i'll give you an example um one of the first forums we held in vancouver a white woman came and she was almost the only white person there was almost all native survivors of the death camps and her name was mary mcfarland and she's described how she worked in the albany residential school and she got fired because one day she found a matron taking a piano leg and beating a little indian girl to death with it and so maryon knocks out the woman doing that she defends a little indian girl john andrew's the principal fires her for doing that and he says anything that happened to that little squad would have been better than losing that woman because she plays the organ and church on sunday we can't lose that so there's a hierarchy of in anybody's mind okay well so a little indian kid dies i mean they seem kind of odd anyway they're like different you know death is abstract but we can't not have an organist on sunday because that's something we know we know we we want pleasant music on sunday right so we act we all have a small little circle of experience and when you say death and torture it's outside that by and large unless you're a victim yourself and then you just don't want to talk about it you want to pretend your life is fine um but if if that is outside your circle of experience it's all abstract it's it's not there's no reference point right and that's why you gotta bring in and we stop talking to an aboriginal child and we started just saying children that's something people can relate to okay dead children um that you can relate to it because there's nothing more horrible than the idea of losing your own child right and having gone through that myself lost contact with my own children when i spoke in a healing circle i spoke from my heart my own pain and that's what people trusted me because it's something they could relate to but most of the stuff genocide it's just a word it doesn't mean anything to anyone tell you give a specific example this child was tortured to death on this state and buried in this hole by this person right and that's what we've been saying from the very beginning in all the work here the details of how it happened here's why it happened it came out of a system that's been doing that for centuries right and it's normal in our culture to do that genocide is a normal tool of church and state it has been for centuries read the history right the other thing i thought we might touch on because i think you again provide witness to this is some of the tricks of the trade in terms of how these conspiracies are not just perpetuated but then covered up and that's work that you continue to do to this day i love the you know from the simpsons you know when um chief widam says we're gonna we're gonna point a blue ribbon committee to look into this and helmer says well blue ribbon you can't get better than that and that's like a little trick of the trade it's so obvious at this point it's been done over and over again the warren commission the 9-11 commission here in the states but how did it operate for you and uh in this work that you're doing in canada this blue ribbon commission well that you know that's the purpose of any so-called commission inquiry to control the narrative they call it in public relations you have to move in quickly control the narrative tell the story from your point of view and uh they they when i began to publish this stuff they they first they denied it and then when the lawsuits began they said okay it happened but it wasn't intentional we were just trying to help these poor little kids and there were excesses and you know a few children were harmed and now we're going to apologize and give money but if you get the money there's a gig quarter attached to it so if you're a native person uh you can't ever talk about it again it's just another way to guide people so um it went through various stages and now it's got to the part where on june 4th the prime minister Justin Trudeau even admitted genocide happened he said that yes it was genocide well now they're saying thousands of children died so they're 20 years later they're saying everything i did but they're still saying kevin anna's making it all up even though they're they're repeating it so it's it's crazy you know when you look at the way it plays out in practice but um don't forget they're able to say that now because they've legally indemnified everybody and that's what they do while they're talking all the correct politically correct talk they're making sure that nobody can get sued uh the churches won't lose their uh insurance coverage which is what their main concern was uh that you know they they have all their property seized in a court case or whatever that was their only real concern losing money um and um and so the the perpetrators indemnify themselves and then they use all the right language and they silence everybody in the same time at the same time so at the end of the day they george or orwell in nineteen uter force called the erase the erasure even the process of cover-up is erased and they've rewritten history and now everyone in canada thinks oh yeah well the government and church did the right thing and they admitted to stuff and now everybody's happy right they don't know anything about the real history or the campaign we we wage to force this out right it's being effectively erased so here's an example of it yeah that that image you got let's play this clip uh from a video that you just recently released on youtube and again i don't know if we can get people there but there's a depth to this that is just we'll talk about hello this is kevin anett we're at the university of british columbia campus and i'm going to demonstrate a case in point of the canadian cover-up of genocide here we have off to our left the kerner library where since 1996 i uncovered the hard evidence of genocide in canada the documentation right down in the spaceman area the microfilm archives of the department many of her showing evidence of mass deaths in residential schools sterilization programs crimes against humanity discovered right there year after year now look what the perpetrators of that crime have just created right next door the indian residential school history and dialogue center now what's interesting is i went in there and i asked around to see what evidence they had about residential schools and guess what in this government and church funded cover-up building they have nothing of the evidence that's right next door here in kerner library none of the records at murder by decree dot com not a single one that's just 50 feet away found its way into the indian residential school history and dialogue center gee now that's not because the serial killer appointed the jury by me chance did they did i remember asking a reporter if you're a serial killer would you get to appoint your own judge and jury because that's what's happened with the trc the the church has got to nominate who the trc commissioners were the privy council office approved it these are the very people that did the crime doing the investigation into themselves powerful stuff there do you want to elaborate well i mean that's the norm in canada and what you know the double thing going on is that people can look at that and go oh well that's good and i said no it's an obvious cover-up they're putting out their own version and ignoring the hard evidence and destroying the evidence as a matter of fact an example of that is the supreme court in canada two years ago ruled that any evidence coming out of a residential school could be destroyed like a court saying you can destroy evidence from a crime scene right it's like it's mind-boggling what these people get away with and yet thinking they're doing the right thing you know well i was listening to your radio show podcast recently and you're documenting another case of that and again for people like me who are truly are trying to understand this stuff at a deeper level and its broader implications for conspiracy and truth finding but you talked about how they're now kind of even co-opting the digging up of these mass grave sites which are really crime scenes but they're somehow recasting this as just a way of oh yeah you know some bad things did happen there and some kids got hurt and that's really sorry that they died on those farm implements and we'll just move all the evidence over here well you know the best example of that is when we did the dig the only dig that's ever happened at a mass grave site at a residential school we i was invited by the grand river mohawks in ontario to come and dig at the site of the oldest residential schools called the mohawk school anglican church church of england rather and let's just be clear they wanted you to dig because they felt that they knew they knew that their ancestors were that their children were buried there well they saw it i mean i i met geronimo henry uh leona moses other people who had dug the graves and put their fellow students in the ground we went over we got experts we got ground penetrating radar we had two forensic specialists coming in archaeologists did did the dig within an hour we found bones and buttons wrapped in the roots of the tree because they used to plant trees on top of the graves to hide the remains these were buttons from before world war two like they weren't plastic they were earlier versions of buttons we had the bones analyzed at the smithsonian institute sure enough it was the knee socket of a young girl maybe five no media in canada were reported the first evidence of uncovering the remains of children at a residential school was totally censored out of the media one newspaper reported the mohawk community newspaper in brownford ontario that's it after that they then moved they all they got the the government funded chiefs to destroy the site to silence everybody to pay off or scare off the elders who had invited me the whole thing that was in early 2012 but all of that evidence we used in the common court case in europe to help indict these people and force rat singer to resign and all this other stuff in public relations they call it the inoculation strategy you inoculate people with an idea and then they get so used to hearing it that they're they're they're inoculated against coming to a conclusion and being shocked and saying wait a minute what's going on it's a gradual process of normalizing a horrible thing and that's how they one of the ways to do it right exactly that's very well said precisely what we're seeing here and we'll see over and over again when we talk about conspiracy because it is one of the tried and true tricks of the trade you're desensitizing people from it where should we go next there's a lot of topics that we could potentially talk about is there anything up there that you'd like to speak to next gather well it's all relevant I mean I think it's good to I'm actually doing a sequel to our documentary film on repentance which I didn't mention we we released this film in 2007 and it really is what forced the apology in Canada because members of parliament had seen this film they got up in parliament and asked about the missing children so it forced open the whole issue and like you mentioned that's online but we want to do a sequel to it to talk about not just in the last 10 12 years how this whole thing has been covered up and and you know shut down but how this crime is continuing today because it's getting a lot worse in areas in British Columbia the the rate of native families going missing the Chinese we found that the the Chinese that are buying up a lot of resources have their own private depth squads that are forcing native families off the land at gunpoint the RCMP in the Canadian government and the present prime minister is implicated in that and that should be an issue in the presidential election campaign in Canada but nobody's mentioned it of course even though the evidence is being published all over all of that stuff we want to document in the this new documentary film but part of it is to interview me about well how has this changed you because the most interesting part of a of a story is of a history is somebody's story right um how has it changed you what conclusions have you come and I'm going to be talking about that and I think yeah the spiritual path which in a way is hard to talk about because it's so personal right um and yet it's it's something that I think touches on some really important things because it has to do with how we really if there's a chance to overcome this these crimes and how they carry on it's got to start with that personal awakening right well I do want to talk about that and it is personal but I think it's important because you're someone who has endured a tremendous amount of personal pain personal sacrifice I can only imagine the dark nights of the soul that you've gone through I want to take it outside of a Christian context unless you want to add it back into that because we're really talking about a a deep spirituality here where we all are forced to confront those deep questions of who we are how what is our relationship to whatever other forces there are in the universe what was that like for you when your whole world was falling apart and then how did you find the strength to kind of go forward in such a profound way yeah I'll leave christianity out of this because it's kind of like George Bernard Shaw said christianity sounds like a wonderful idea somebody should try it sometime yeah so I'll move on to more basic things um the um uh well in a nutshell the way I put in some of my recent books is the truth of this is that I did die I I it was not simply trauma my whole life was uprooted and part of me died and I think um losing your children going through constant poverty and attacks and just seeing everyone around you step back um step back from you step back from supporting you right and uh how easy it is to make people do that even the ones who love you and the ones who say they're gonna stand by you and the ones who wouldn't back off they simply killed there was a I wrote a book called Fallen about four of these guys native guys in Vancouver who would not abandon me and they're all killed and medical lethal injection or beaten by cops in Vancouver beaten it up and you know it's it's when you're living that every day when you're living in a war zone there's another part of us if you don't collapse entirely there's something else that starts rising in us and it's it's it's something that can only be present in adversity it's really interesting because uh in the good times you don't experience this this strong part of us this this immortal part I think this part that can't be broken it only steps out in the hard times when you when not just a hard time like poor me look at what's happening to me but no if you're in a righteous cause and you have to be there you will find the strength and protection it's like classic example I was living I eventually was living out of my car I was homeless saving up the few bucks I had a week to see my children you know and I had 20 bucks left I'm walking down the street Hastings Street it's that poor part of Vancouver where I did a lot of my work and there's an entire homeless family just sitting on the sidewalk okay a native family nothing so hell they needed the 20 bucks more than I did so I give it to them there all right about an hour later I'm walking down the street and there's another 20 lying on at my feet right and it happens that way that's just one example but whenever I would go out on a limb and just keep going boom there's support support comes and you have but the more you think about yourself the less us there you've got to be focused on what's right what other people need and I kept thinking I am not gonna let these bastards get away with this right they're not gonna get away with this again I just won't every day I had to live without resolve and after a while you just find there's a different person there's a different identity that grows up in you and certainly not the way that I was 20 years ago or even 10 years ago you change I mean we all change over lifetime we have many lives if we're on the right path I think what was it like sitting with and experiencing the pain of others because I think that's something else that we're really going to be honest most of us shield ourselves from you didn't so those even early on those people who came up and bore witness on the pulpit that had to crush your soul you continue to put yourself in those situations where most of us would just go you know I don't want to really hear about that and then when it comes to satanic ritual abuse I God I don't want to hear about that I'm sure that doesn't exist because I can't even imagine that and then like you said oh I can imagine oh some less than human person but really a nice kid just like my kid that's happening to in some part of Vancouver Washington wherever Southern California I don't even want to go there and you go there over and over again I was about to say that when I was in the church and people would get up and speak from the pulpit it shocked me but it didn't rock my world yet because it was still abstract it's only when I lost my own children and I saw how the church brutally took my children from me then began to be open to the fact that they may have hurt other that could have built children because I saw what they did to my own children and me so you need a personal experience to hang it on right and then your heart opens up so I was able to relate to their pain because I was going through the same pain of what it was like not to see my kids every day and and to be vilified and attacked and impoverished so it's like just because I was talking about things they didn't you know the perpetrators didn't want to have hurt right so you need that personal experience to go to to get develop real empathy right what about beyond that because you've gone much further I mentioned satanic ritual abuse which immediately is going to shuttle out of people down because they've been conditioned to think that that can't possibly be true it's satanic panic it's all the rest of this stuff that if anyone investigates I find that it's that's not the case that it is a reality how do you get there you haven't experienced that you haven't but but you somehow opened yourself up to that and incorporated that in but I'm particularly interested in how you understand that spiritually and I mean spiritually in the broadest terms of who you are well I've had experience when I was a minister in Port Albarnia took part in the nexusism and then I conducted other ones I've done three in total and um clearly went outside the valley 10 years ago now um and now what's interesting about that is I had I had it I came face to face with something and it's very difficult to try to put into words but it confirmed me with the reality of this this evil and how it operates through people how it subverts and controls people and how it reaches it all the time to try to do that all of us right and how we need to be very self-aware and vigilant all the time especially when you're doing this front line work right so um that helped you know to have had that experience but ultimately there's nothing how can you even imagine you know these these verified accounts of ceremonies where children are ritually raped uh tortured chopped up and cannibalized that's part of the ceremony and there's a strong similarity between the black mass satanic mass and the catholic mass because it's believed in both rituals that you're literally eating flesh and blood whether it's the flesh and blood of christ or the flesh and blood of an innocent child that flesh and blood will redeem you somehow so it's a it's not a big stretch to go from one to the other and that's why so many satanic rituals tend to be held in catholic churches it's the same energy uh of of predatory vampirism really how do you understand that how do you understand evil so here's my thing like so you were confronted an entity in this extended consciousness realm that you identified with being evil right so we get that we've heard that too many times to ignore it but you are a spirit do you accept that you are spiritual being as well i mean that okay and that there's a greater part of your spirit that isn't in that same realm at the same time that you're down here maybe that's too much of a stretch but i guess what i'm trying to understand is how do you reconcile that with the light with what you're here to do with positive things i always have a problem with trying to wrap my arms around the evil thing and truly really try and understand it and i always put it in this as below so above thing you know if we want to find evil you've found it all over the place down here and the fact that you found it in the vatican when you did the exorcism is further confirmation of this as below so above now you've spoken to how to transcend that but i was wondering if you have any more thoughts on what is your personal understanding of how you're supposed to grow in the face of that kind of evil what why is it there for you what what is it for you to how are you supposed to transcend that well don't forget that we raise we're raised in a culture where we oppose light and darkness all the time and we tend to project our own shadow around light onto others and we have to be aware of that and the reality is light and darkness are part of the same phenomena good and evil are part of god and the reality is that you know there's day and then there's night we're not afraid of the night unless you're just a child and you don't know any better that evil for example men who did this to me who took my children from me who were destroyed my name publicly who permitted me from working all of the stuff i was tempted to hate them for the hypocrisy and and the evil of what they had done and then i realized but wait a minute it's because of them that i'm in my situation now the quote evil people are are unwitting allies you know in the tibetan book of the dead they say be thankful for your enemy he shows you who you are and it's true there's this kind of dance we do where we are sharpened we're made clear by our interaction with what we call evil and so i it's not so much i see it as an enemy but a different aspect of humanity that if it's out of balance can cause massive destruction now i don't want to trivial i don't want to make it too abstract because in practice the evil people do is horrible especially when it's same to children it's there is a force that operates through us that seeks our own destruction that seeks our debasement on our corruption i believe that and there's also that force in us that's resisting that that is rising that encourages us to rise up to our true higher self right and that's a war inside every soul right i mean we're we're all facing that that those two forces all the time i think it's a matter of knowing how they can also assist each other and um i mean you know it's it's something that everyone has experience in their own way but um it isn't that the whole notion that we're good and they're bad that's what's causing a lot of problem in the world because um well you know it's like i got a my my grandmother gave me a poem once when i was really little and it said um there's so much good in the worst of us and so much bad in the best of us that it isn't right for any of us to think better than uh the rest of us you know what i mean uh no i i do i do know what you mean and i think that you did a nice job there of saying kind of articulating the struggle that we all face because we do have to take a stand and and say there is a moral imperative there is a good there is a right or wrong there isn't a kind of morality isn't just an abstraction because we all experience that in our own heart we know what's right we know what's wrong even if we understand that we don't always make the right decisions and none of us do so yeah but it's like an example too is like at death guns right when people are dying think is death evil no it's part of life it's a normal process and yet how people relate to it like i saw this all the time in proto burning when native families have a death everyone would mourn that be that all the families would get together they'd be screaming they'd be wailing and then it was okay right you bring in a white family and they're all in denial they're saying you'll be up and around next week sister like i was with a family who's the mother was dying of liver cancer she was only in her 30s that her husband was saying don't worry you'll be up and around the prognosis is good i said no you got to tell her the truth it's it's the end you got to say goodbye and they hated me for saying that they wouldn't talk to me after because that you know they felt that had hurt them by telling the truth it's kind of like now what i do with all the canada or the world right they hate the truth teller when there's so much pain but at some point they have to accept that it's over and i use that as a metaphor for like the work we all do because yeah our society is over i mean this society like it's coming down in many ways and we have to look at that and accept that death that's not an evil thing that's as necessary if we're going to transform go beyond it right yeah i'm not so sure and and and we could get off on on that whole thing and i think that there's there is another side of that in the same way that we talked about conspiracy and how things get co-opted and i'm always very suspicious of all the messages out there but the the death cults uh environmentalism thing i think is kind of a misstep the end of world thing i think is kind of a misstep the collapse of society i think is kind of a misstep i'm totally energized by your activism and your ability to kind of continue to to carry on in the way that you do but i don't necessarily have to sign up for for all the rest of that stuff but that's okay i didn't mean i wasn't trying to say an end of world scenario i'm just saying that is clear to me every day on the ground that the society that produced this genocide it it can sustain itself because it's it's so um it's so soulless and so corrupt that there's gotta be this other and i see this other force rising all the time to replace it it's this dance going on right and we have to sit down on this coming up absolutely but we also have to let go of what needs to fall and that's hard for people because we all have a vested interest in the system to some degree so i mean it's it's a dance right it is a dance i i do think it it helps and that's one of the things i like about your work and even when we talk about some of these extreme things that people are going to have a really hard time accepting like i said ritual satanic abuse kind of thing we'll talk about the petal pope in a minute people just can't go there but that's why i think you have to go because the other thing you're saying is is so gray and people can have legitimate differences of opinion about it like whether you tell someone you know my wife who's a forensic psychologist was just sharing with me a story i think she had watched in this documentary there's kind of the opposite of your story she said in in japan if they receive news from a medical doctor that aunt jenny is is dying they would never tell that person that never tell that person and as a matter of fact they would kind of orchestrate this myth around it of just no no everything's going to be okay and sometimes things are okay and sometimes you can justify that maybe there's some kind of placebo effect going on there too or maybe that's in the hands of some force that's beyond us to reinforce what is sometimes a very hokey and corrupt medical system that is very much into this mechanized idea that we have figured out all the stats on your entire thing too so all that's a gray area what is in a gray area to me is petal pope you've done an unbelievable job of documenting ongoing so that's one of the one of the things i want people to understand about your work and if they go to murder by decree.com they'll find your ongoing investigations of things that are happening today 2019 and again you are a living history to connect those with this conspiracy that you've now at this point completely documented in a way that is kind of undeniable and you show that it's even acknowledged quote unquote acknowledged that's an important history because you stand there saying all of that so let's talk a little bit about the the the petal pope because you have some new work on that that i wasn't aware of that i think is very important you can start anywhere you want and talk about what you know about the pope that a lot of other people don't know two things first it should be pluralized it's not one it's popes good point also uh pedo the word itself you see we all know about programming through words and the word pedophile means friend of children right every time you use that word it's designed to minimize and make it seem benign very good point too what it is no child rape this child can kill it but anyway that's here we go no no no no no let's let's let's your your spot on and i think you've made that point in other cases of language is super important softening co-opting language is super important okay i didn't mean to diminish it of course i also wanted we also have to add a little bit of lightness to this if we if we can't kind of drive it into people but you're right it's the the rape torture murder exploitation in film uh that they do they snuff films all that's it's the worst of the worst yeah well i mean if you're talking of the present guy in rome right brugoglio or hey brugoglio sure um well he was brought in as a spin doctor after we first were asking her to resign in 2013 you know his history is horrible if you look into what he did as an archbishop in argentina during the dirty wars um population's guy for the junta turning a blind eye when his own priests were being tortured to death trafficking children of political prisoners which is an old practice in the catholic church they did in franco spain um for a lot of money and his involvement with the ninth circle satanic cult which is being attested to by eyewitnesses who were there including people sources within the dutch royal family because the present queen of the netherlands maxi missouri aga is an old friend of his she's from argentina her father was in the junta um according to ellis stirr who's a journalist in the netherlands who's been working in our network she found out that brugoglio and her have been in a relationship for some years and uh she's been paying him money for a number of years uh in a argentine bank account now um in other words this guy's just as dirty as all his predecessors but he's got the public relations smiley pope image but it's funny how the mass slips with these guys i remember he was in america a few years ago and all of the time that he's posing this is nice liberal progressive pope um he goes out to uh he gives a talk about junta para sarah who was a franciscan missionary who personally worked to death thousands of indians on his plantation in california and brugoglio turns he has a beatification ceremony he makes this guy a saint and he says we are inspired by his zeal in killing off thousands of non-believers so even with the liberal element of the church they still all believe the old line that you should kill off non-believers that is they're not human beings until they can become baptized therefore they're they're cannon fodder for how we want right and it's endemic in the in the mindset so the appearance the hand puppet is one thing but the reality is the same it's the same entity right and um and that's kind of how i approach this whole thing of well it doesn't one element in the church that's bad it's the nature of the beast to be doing this right these crimes against children well i think we need to speak to all of that in a couple of ways and one from the beginning it's always been about control first and foremost and then all evil kind of springs forth from that but it's it's about controlling people then i think we've already talked about the christ consciousness that you're not uh you're not a verse to the idea that there is a light that shines somehow shines through all this and that christians who find a spiritual awakening in themselves and then associate that with their religion that's not a problem but it may not be the source of it either if you know what i mean so people do have genuine spiritual transformative experiences inside of the christian church i think what you're saying or let me just say what i'm saying but that doesn't mean that the organization isn't fundamentally corrupt and fundamentally serving a different purpose than what most people think it is and that's the only way i can understand the dichotomy of what we see because there are good people in the church there are people of a of a good heart there are people that are trying to listen to the voice inside their head that wants them to do good maybe you want to speak to that a little bit since i gave a little rant there well there were there were good there were good germans too if you want to if you want to look at them individually in isolation from the collective that they're part of yeah there's good people all over the place but if you step back and look at i'm saying something different though i'd like to hear you just comment on this yeah do you believe that people have spiritually transformative experiences and do you believe that those spiritually transformative experiences can be through a spiritual being that they understand to be christ and the reason i say it that way the reason i question it is you know i've done 50 shows on near death experience where people not only say they had this experience but their life is witness to that their life changes in dramatic ways and they do things and all the rest that so is that real i can't right well i can't judge whether it's really not i can't look into another person's soul and say you know i know what they're going through i don't have the religious belief that one person can do that for another um but um put it this way uh Frederick Douglas the slave he led the abolitionist movement he he in his biography he describes how his slave master had a religious conversion became a Methodist born-again Methodist so he expected the slave masters to then release all the slaves and no he became even more brutal because he had gone on the side and if you have a genuine spiritual thing what do you need a church what do you need a religion to express that you don't it's it's the kingdom of heaven is within you or it isn't and if it's within you you don't need to express it on sunday in the church right well true true but but people can can both be true can i mean look i'm not a christian i'm not religious so i'm kind of playing devil's advocate here but i do i do encounter a lot of people who when they encounter this information the kind of information you're talking about are confronted with the the kind of impossible option of turning their back on a tradition that is so interwoven in their family and they they just can't do it and i do have some empathy for them that that they that they they have a real experience there that they're trying to understand it might take them a while to do it i'd be in a minister i've worked in in churches i know exactly what you're talking about um the majority of my parishioners were there because it's a social club it's a way to reassure if they've always done it it's a sentimental family kind of thing to do okay that's fine like a social club fine that necessarily and christianity belief in christ tends to get on the way of that you know if because it's just a spiritual calling is very personal and it's not part of a group you know the old saying the quakers have a saying god gets lost in a crowd and i think that that's true right so no i don't believe the idea that of religion isn't is a imperial idea that everybody has to have one belief that's coming out of the roman empire originally the catholic church is an expression of the roman empire even the terms used for popes it's in terms of the old emperors i mean ponevix maximus you know uh like all of this stuff so there's a history there but it boils down to a simple moral and legal fact that if you're part of an institution that's committing crime it doesn't matter what your spiritual beliefs are you're part of a crime you're putting money in a collection plate you're associated with them you're an accessory to a crime so we say to people what does that have to do with the spiritual calling you can't be part of that if you're a moral person forget about spirituality let's just talk about morality and ethics are you really going to be associated with these churches that have centuries of blood on their hands and they're still doing these crimes i mean i don't think any moral person would do that and so to me it boils down to that not spirituality right i think you're right kevin i think you're 100 right do you want to speak to the idea that this is a problem that's been concentrated in the catholic or limited to catholicism and those darn catholics and that stupid pope you know that's not true from your personal experience but where does it go why why do all the religions you have a great some great stuff on the Mormons great when i say great of course i mean horrific but you know and and again just so people know so i started reading reading some of your stuff on the Mormons i mean i gotta fact check this guy i gotta fact check this guy he's probably going too far and again it takes 15 minutes and the sexual abuse trials in bountiful utah that directly connect the current prophet leader of the Mormon church with the worst kind of worst kind of crimes against children again same kind of stuff rape torture murder all that kind of stuff it's there we can't draw the lines completely but we've all seen the stories to to just seeing the connections too too many times now that the burden of proof is on those folks to show that those connections don't lead where they seem to but i went on and on there this isn't just about catholicism right no i mean it was a source of a lot of this stuff catholicism means universal and that's why i don't like to use the term i mean it's it's part of the mindset um but of empire but um yeah a lot of the stuff started in Rome and it was replicated by others there's a strong connection between the Mormon church and the church of Rome um they even opened a Mormon temple not far from the Vatican now and we believe the nine circles rituals are going on there we have eyewitnesses who brought children who saw children being brought in from Macedonia in September and never came out again of that Mormon temple in Rome so we know that stuff's going on likely um and on my shows on the bbs radio and here we stand my show if you go back in the archives you'll see two interviews with insiders who were there in the ritual killings under the the temple in uh salt lake city and even more horrible stuff you know um what they did to people but um the reality is this no it isn't just the church of Rome but whatever however expresses itself it's coming from the same spirit which is of domination and control and um it's interesting the the Mormon church i believe was set up as a social engineering project uh they the FBI and the CIA recruit disproportionately out of Mormons um it's a very when you talk to the people there the mentality the control they have over people is unbelievable they all have to wear a certain underwear i don't know if you know this it's like the Mormon underwear and they believe if you take it off you're damn it's it's it's like it's so controlled the thinking and um you don't have to trace it that far to speed a link between the mk ultra mind control experiments in the 50s that's strong ties they had with various religions in in not only getting test subjects children but these programs because within churches because religions are prone to this people have handed over their judgment and authority to another figure somebody knows better than them they defer themselves they live in a precarious condition all the time where somebody else is thinking for them and it is there um the one to make the judgments not themselves so it's like a slave culture and a culture of silence and that's why it's hard for these stories to come out but that's the problem it you know the most obvious example of it is coming out of roman has for many centuries but it's it's really that spirit um which is degradation of the human soul really it's it's designed to captivate and enslave humanity i believe right from on the ground you know uh as we kind of move towards wrapping things up you just set a lot of really very important things in my world kind of that i wonder about and that is it's almost like you sketched out these two ladders you know that are leaned up against these two evil walls and the one ladder is a ladder that we kind of understand it's climbing the wall of dominance control empire in a way that hey we have to be protected against whoever you know the huns that are going to march over the hill and there's a reality to that because that is our that is our history as well whatever that reality is we all acknowledge that there's a reality to the fact that we give up some of our rights to our government in order for protection i don't want to go too far with that because we can tear that apart but there's another ladder and it's leaning against a completely different wall and it's the wall that you're alluding to when you talk about the entity maybe that you encountered in your exorcisms or the entity that wants things for reasons that really don't make any other sense in that they just move us in some dark ways that we totally don't understand and then we have the intersection of those the the mk ultra the impossible kind of you know how can you do those crimes it's like the holocaust thing how did we do those crimes how do human beings do those crimes and and so what is that relationship between those two forces one that we understand or we think we understand and one that is beyond our grasp for the most part it's a mystery to some degree it's like when you encounter real goodness and real evil are not describable they can only be experienced and then there's a mystery around there's an ambiguity when okay when you're in love okay you can't describe to somebody it's there it's life giving it's beautiful there's nothing like it right similarly when you're encountering and when you're in the depth of despair brought about by this evil uh there's no way to understand it you can't understand these things it's beyond an understanding but the heart has its own understanding right and and ultimately our minds can deceive us because they're conditioned they're programmed they're influenced but our heart mind doesn't that consciousness within our own heart and soul doesn't ever betray us and that's why I say to people like before you start this work you've got to do your own personal work and every day go there because it's your only defense against what you're going to go up against you know and and I find that you know all the time you have to do that do you want to speak to that for a minute what is your practice how do you how do you go there well for me open that how do you open that heart you're you're a man you're a man in the western culture which we're kind of programmed from the beginning to keep that damn thing closed um and and then you've had to endure this kind of ongoing you know you reference sun sue a lot you're a warrior man of the ultimate truth seeker warrior and now you're speaking that you need to kind of let your take off your armor and open your heart as part of your your your your just being your spiritual path how do you do that I I said in nature I sit by running water I just remember who I was as a little boy running around in love with everyone in the world I mean it go back to our innocence right and um when I lost my kids I'd see them now and then but I dropped them off on Sunday night and it was a very bad time for me after I dropped them off so all I do is get on the bus and I'd ride around and be with people and we have that commonality you know I often say to people there's more genetic variation in one troop of chimpanzees than the entire human race we're that close we're really the expression of that one soul and you feel that when you're in great grief you go to people you hang out with them you just absorb their energy and watch the way they are and you're great solace in that so we don't isolate I say to people the last thing you want to do is isolate in the room isolate in a life um think that a counselor is going to help you um you know when I tell that famous story of William Coombs the native guy who when we occupied the church he was there with us even though it was tortured like he heard the child sound of a church bell he'd start getting sick because the way he'd been tortured in these places yet there he is in church with us the day we occupied it and I said William how could and he was really happy he was handing out flyers to people he had no fear he wasn't afraid of these priests and he said I didn't want to let you guys down I didn't want to be left out now that that love that desire to be with us we did that we helped heal in that day not some counselor but all of us together showing we're not afraid of these people we're not afraid of the truth we're going to stand here and help and love each other in practice right where it counts and that he stopped drinking that week that's bloody oracle you know if you knew his situation um but we did that miracle together and that's to me I you reconnect with that common blood heartbeat and and you find that nature everywhere Kevin it's amazing your work is amazing um murderbydecre.com again is the place for people to go to stay up to date you can not only check out the book and order the book but it's updated constantly with new goings on and love your show here we stand on bbs radio lots of good stuff not a lot of filler just like hidden with more and more stuff new stuff all the time and then I do hope people check out uh unrepentant and good to know that there's a follow-up to that what else can you tell people about in terms of what's coming up for you well uh you know I'm just finishing off uh we've been part of kind of a election campaign in Canada to put forward the idea of the republic which a majority of Canadians like they want and then did ties with the British crown and that so I mean there's been that occupied me but come um uh the new year we're starting a whole new campaign I'll be on the road doing not just speaking uh to groups but actual conducting training workshops in common law especially in the states where we actually have our biggest support in America because people already get this idea to a large degree it's already you're raised with the idea that you know you're sovereign citizens or republic you're not some subject somewhere so I'll be in states um people want to reach me it's the common land at gmail.com uh love to do another interview with you you're a great interviewer um getting into the marrow of stuff which I really love so thank you Alex appreciate it well that's nice of you to say I feel like you know on some of these shows I get over excited and that's how it is I've been I've been diving into your stuff and I'm just I struggle with how to present it because I think it's so important and I'm such a fan of you as a person and I just think there's a million stories that you have to tell and it's just been great having you on and I appreciate your time well uh thank you again we'll talk more thanks again to Kevin Annette for joining me today on Skeptico the one question I'd have to hear from this interview is do you think Kevin's story is true I mean this is just another podcast 400 and whatever in the series is this possibly true mass murder of Indian kids in these schools that they forced them into satanic ritual abuse long standing in the church and going on today collusion between church and state in order to commit crimes against children and crimes in general this is a broad reaching conspiracy that would seem to reach every part of society and culture could this possibly be true let me know what you think to that question and please let me know if you have any other information I should know about I say this all the time but you guys you listeners of Skeptico have been the source of everything that I know on this show so we have to keep that system going and the best way for you to do it is to connect with me comment about the show uh join the Skeptico forum which you'll find from the Skeptico website and let your voice be heard there and share your ideas with other people this show was very important to me very meaningful on so many ways and I'm so grateful to Kevin and the work he's doing if you found the show important please share it with anyone else you think needs to hear about this like I always say this show reaches the people it's supposed to reach so if you want to be part of that process I certainly invite you to do that I have a number of interesting interesting shows coming up please stay with me for all of that until next time take care and bye for now