 every individual realizes he or her full potential can cope with the normal stresses of life, can work productively and fruitfully, and is able to make a contribution to his or her community. Now, according to World Health Organization, depression and common mental health disorders affect millions and approximately one in five Nigerians experiencing mental health problems each year. Mental health is a knack in Nigeria, rather is a significant public health issue. However, only a small fraction of these people receive treatment. Inadequate fundings, stigma and brain drain remain the biggest obstacles to delivering mental health services to Nigerians and the government at all levels need to increase their efforts and reduce neglect in the sector. As we mark World Health or World Mental Health Day, 2023, today we're asking, can mental health become a universal human right? Now, please, let's hear what you have to say. Remember, if you join the conversation, send us an SNS or WhatsApp to 08-1803-4663. Okay, so for the longest time in Nigeria, a lot of people associated mental health issues with what do they call them? They say Yabba left, they give you all sorts of names and all of that. But I think over time, again, with globalization, with a lot of awareness globally that has happened over the years, there's a lot more receptive, what's it called? receptiveness when it comes to understanding that people truly go through certain phases in their life. I remember there was a time in my life, a very low point in my life where, I think even though it wasn't diagnosed, I believe, because my friend, she's a mental health expert, right? I believe based on the symptoms I hear her talk about, I think I was going through depression, but even I did not know. It was a down time, you get, you'll be dehydrated, you are drinking water, but you're feeling very fast, very dehydrated, you're not motivated, you're not willing to get up to do anything, you're just there, you're sunk inside yourself, you don't want to go anywhere. So I believe that the Nigerian state as it is, is a stressor. Do you understand? Like literally everything stresses us. So if you want to even look at these numbers, I mean from World Health Organization, they say one in five. I even believe it is one in three or one in two, because as three of us, they for this place here. One person is God, definitely. Do you understand? And I that point is that you would go through certain levels of mental, what's it called, stresses and all of that and it to just take a toll on you. Some people now, they've not been able to manage it well, it has gone all the way to the extreme. What is a big issue? And for me, I feel like I agree with the topic that says it should be a human right. It should be part of your fundamental human right for your sanity. That way, you can then tie it to many things. You can then demand for certain things, better living standards. Literally going on the road is depressing. Today, a minute I entered the road, I saw you have a 31 minutes delay. As I had 31 minutes delay, so I have to go through a very bumpy road just to avoid that 31 minutes delay. That's stressing my mental health. Do you understand? The way it's going like this, my brain will be shaking. So it's almost like, I have a headache, maybe. I have to say it. So that's why we have a leg foundation, but seriously. Lakers is a dead home. Like it's a catalyst for abnormalities in your mental health, honestly. But let me hear your thoughts. What do you think, right? Should we start to really consider mental health being a universal human right? And now I thought I was going to be on your podium. I thought I was going to be on your podium side, but I just can't help it. Yes, I think it should be part of the human rights. And I think it's something that we should address from an early stage. So you have teenagers now who go through depression and there's that stigma from the Nigerian-African parents. Is that age that it starts? When you're just sort of new into the world and you're kind of lost, trying to find yourself where you fit. And sometimes you're able to manage it well and sometimes you're not. So it's essential that if there's something that can be pushed out there that can be emphasized on, like even when you go to hospitals, the same way you do your physical checkups, there should be a section for your mental health to say, how are you doing mentally? What kind of thoughts are you having with yourself? Because how you think is going to reflect on your body as well, how your body responds to distress. Even with the medications? Yes, you understand. So it's very important if we can start at an early stage. So from a teenager, just even self-development, proper guidance would be nice. So we don't wait until the point where a person is about to jump off a 10-melan bridge and they say, no, no, no, don't do it, now we're here for you. And even to the common man who has no sort of support system, the same way there's hospital for if you have an injury to go on. Not everybody even now can afford to go to a hospital but it would be nice to say, okay, I need to talk to somebody, they're taught to have it in my head. But being even able to come out and say it is something I think in this part of the world we need to embrace. How about you? Well, I actually also agree that mental health should be everybody's human right, right? Because the truth is that according to what she said, just where we have hospitals for when people are sick, we should have maybe clinics for mental health, people to talk. But the thing is that we have therapies, don't we? They're not just exactly affordable. So I think that in making, okay, well maybe because these things are actually privatized, that will also be why. So I think if the government really wants to see to making mental health a basic human right for every individual, I think they need to start off by creating a government-owned, I don't know if I should call it an hospital now. I don't know where that's going to go. I mean, creating a government-owned hospital, where, you know, even if we're going to, it's just like, I mean, if we're going to pay, it's not going to be so much because imagine I am depressed now and then I'm thinking, okay, I need to talk to a therapist. And then I go to the therapist and the person says, 100K per session. The depression would be, I mean, the depression will really even disappear in all. The depression is just hibernating because what you just met is even more depressing. So I mean, these things are not entirely rocket science, if I'm being honest. These things are very doable. I mean, I understand that funding is a major part of why this mental health issue has not particularly been taken up. And I also understand that the stigma, I think sensitization of the general public will actually go a long way. So just like people talk about abortions, right? I mean, people in marriage literally have abortions because probably they're not ready for the child at the time. And I don't see, maybe you can say I'm pro-abortionist, but I'm just like, you're not ready. Sometimes it comes as a mistake, for couples like that in an actual marriage. Maybe not in this picture because they were actually engaging in the act. But the point is, they were not just ready at the time. So what people stigmatize, they're like, ah, you don't have abortions. I don't think that that's it. It's just someone who is liberated, you know, making an actual decision for themselves. So I think that we should, the government or even everybody, all of us actually, general sensitization of the general public will actually go a long way. To make people understand that, look, someone with a mental health problem is not a mad person. Because usually when you say you are probably depressed or you have anxiety or you have wanting, wanting, wanting. You know exactly, there's also the parts of saying, oh, you're just especially African parents. I mean, no offense to African parents, right? But imagine you're in an African home. You're in an African home and genuinely, because the truth is that when teenagers are growing from being teenagers, they're teenagers so that to be, you see, adults now. Yeah. Yeah. There's just a lot. Yeah. There's always a lot. First, you're trying to find your purpose. You're trying to even know who you actually are because it feels like you knew who you were before and then as you're growing. You're evolving and the problems are evolving too. You're becoming a different person. So, you know, that transitioning period can make you fall into some, it can make you fall into a dark place. Let me not entirely call it depression, but into a dark place. So imagine you've been in an African home now and you are genuinely in a dark place and your woman is saying, go and tell them to say more. And you're like, mommy, I would just give me some time. She doesn't understand why she's giving you any time. So, but if this person is educated enough to know that, look, when someone is actually acting down, it's not because they're trying to be lazy or something. I don't think anybody just willingly wants to be down. Unless you put that aside, it's sharp. Some people are sharp. Yeah. That's why it's always put that aside. But if the lazy parts, yeah. It's fine that some people are lazy. Yeah. So there's a thin line. Yeah. Yeah, there is a thin line because some people are generally actually are genuinely lazy. I understand the part that you're saying it's a very valid point where people need to pay attention to other people. Why are you making it look like that? Because I know, yeah. We're going to come for the GenZ. No, no, no, no. Funny enough, I was not planning to come for the GenZ. So the way it works, you must study people's body language. Yeah, right. It's really when you know that you have people that are emotionally sensitive around you. When they are a bit, if they are hyper, hyper, hyper and all of a sudden they go quiet, that would be a good time to ask for you, okay, if there's anything wrong and all of that. But we don't pay attention to those things because also, we're not sensitized enough to know. A suicide does not just happen. No. There's a build-up. So somebody must have done something. There are different things. You'll be seeing so many things. Other issues of not being interested in life anymore, things anymore. Maybe they were very active. They're no longer active. They're not even interested and all of that. All those things are signs that eventually builds up to that point where the person just believes that I don't have anything here left for me. And they then take the decisions to take their lives. So I mean, I get you. That sensitization is very key. But you see, where I do not have faith is a government that's not been able to provide basic health care. GenZ, how can that government provide mental health care? Because basic health care, it's even an attack on your physical body. So you have a malaria, you have all of this, you know, you're dealing with like physical pain, you know, and all of that. You have a government that is not able to cater to that problem. Then you're not asking for the ones that they cannot even understand. Mental health, it's not possible. Why I feel like if we truly want to change the healthcare landscape in Nigeria, there has to be a lot more private investors in the industry. I mean, so I was, I just finished, you see, I've come again. I've just finished my course, you know, online. And the truth is, the majority of that conversation from the beginning of the course to the end of the course was on healthcare. Because that's the case study that they're using. And if you see the way the model, the health city, the health city models in India, the way they built it, they built it now, can afford or access, rather, can access what's it called, high level quality healthcare. So think of any of the big hospitals in Lagos or Abuja or whatever. Those are kind of healthcare services that a con roaster by the road is able to afford in India. Why? Because private investors came and says, you know what, I need to make healthcare affordable. So when it comes to healthcare, we cannot rely on private investors coming into the space. So to your point about whether we have got, we have got, because I know that my friend used to, she used to go and do some time in, I think it's in Yaba, there's a, there's a psychiatric or whatever clinic or whatever that is owned by the government. She, she worked there for a bit, you know, then before she started doing her own private practice. Yeah. So there are people that are actually there. But the truth is and those people with psychological evaluation and all of these things that has to do with mental health, they has to be retooling and retooling and retooling. It means that for every time there are issues or whatever, there has to be continuous learning. You're supposed to be taking them to go and learn about best practices around the world, you know, and all of those things. Where is the fun for that? So if you ask me, I'll say, let's avoid government in this. If we can get private investors to come in, we should be managing it. Because I have seen people that, I mean, somebody called me and said that they needed counseling for a couple, that they've been this, they've been this, and I called my counselor and she actually gave them the best, you know, the lowest, lowest deal. They still ran away because, you know, because the fee is not particularly easy. Yeah, exactly because it is mostly privatized. You know, anything that is privatized is always more expensive. Or even in a venture, like impact businesses. Because if we look at government, what government can do in that instance is, provide the facility. Provide some things like, basic things like power, facility, access. That's what government can do and give policies in a way that those people are giving maybe tax holidays or whatever. Then they can run the practice at a very very price, you know. I was at a meeting today and they were talking about been powered by solar solutions, right? Imagine if we start to have hospitals, for instance, that the government has built, fully powered. They're not thinking of generators. They're not thinking of all of this. So that cost that you're talking about, it comes down. So if you are asking, where will the government come in? The government will come in in things like that, that you're thinking, okay, cheaper power solutions, energy solutions, access, you understand? You're talking about the structure, infrastructure. And yes, that's where the government stops. So in the running of those hospitals, let the government then bring in private investors, let them come and run it fully, independent of the government. Then they cannot discuss maybe the modalities and all of that. In that way, we'll find a solution, not just to mental health, but general health in Nigeria. But if we continue to play the way it is like this, it will be difficult for us to even pay attention to mental health because even our healthcare is in shambles. I don't know if you guys have seen that video that been going around social media about maternal mortality. RMB posted it. A lot of celebrities have posted it. They all acted in it where they put a plane filled with pregnant women and there was a plane crash and they all died. So yes, and this one was part of it. They said that that is like they were trying to depict the vivid picture of what maternal mortality is like in Nigeria, that that's the number of women that die on a daily basis when it comes to maternal mortality. So just imagine that picture in here to paint that picture. So they are pressing issues that is stressing the healthcare sector. So if you say that you want to now bring in government into mental health, they will never take it seriously because particularly mental health is not that disease that it shows on you, you know. So it's something that is internal. So people don't even understand the pain. Even they themselves didn't go through. Do you understand? They haven't. What is the new meaning of something else on your mind? But it's okay. I didn't know that. I was right here. All right, thanks for staying with us. If you just see our ladies night out and we're discussing can mental health become a universal human right? Please let's hear what you have to say. Remember, you can join the conversation, send us an SMS or what happens with 1803-4663. You can also tweet. I'm sorry. Let's leave the X matter for now. Our phone line is now open. The number is calling 070-2500-7749. Remember the rules, turn off the volume of whatever device it is you're calling or you're watching us from. So when you call, we don't get a feedback. All right. So I mean, okay, Mary, what did you say before you went to the break? Even our comments, our uncle's and auntie's, I feel like some of them might have some mental issues that they are not addressing or that they are not even, they can't even bring themselves to the reality. You know this thing that do me. I want to do to you what I suffered. It's kind of what we, it's a fact thing that is happening in Nigeria. What I went through, you have to go through it. I also think that another point of influence that can help out is religion. So in terms of like churches and let me tell you why religion is very tricky because if you go to a maybe a sister in church, like someone that's older than you or spiritually and whatnot, and then you explain to them that okay, I'm experiencing XYZ, XYZ thing. The next thing I'm going to say is let's pray because this has happened to me before several times. But we can't deny the fact that prayer also does help now. Do you understand? What I'm trying to say, them even promoting the awareness of mental health, you know how they do, I don't know what's the word, when maybe like they gather people to say health, professional services to talk to you. You know so it's the same way, you know. Yes, I agree with you. You know to say oh okay mental health, it might not you know exactly be that you can just walk into any church member and just say ah see, see what I'm going through. You can't just tell, you can't tell anybody. Yes, they have a counseling department and it's not just nobody who don't need to cancel it. Yes, because religion is a serious point of influence in this country. Do you understand? So if most parents say once they once you say they charge, the pastor says it's okay, it's all right. Well let me tell you something, I have a friend that is a counselor. She's been counseling for years now, happily married, thank God for all her life. But she will tell you, she always says her story you know that it was because of church that she got her first experience of rape and it was the pastor that raped her. Right, so you see this that's why a lot of people are now a lot more conscious like in those not like in those days where parents just trust because these people are men before they are men of God too. I mean she at some point was almost like everywhere she went to they wrote to rape me on her forehead because every single time there was something, there was a tantrum or something they took her to church and the pastors would have their way with her you know so when it comes to issues around churches we need to be very careful, extremely careful. You might as well be praying depression out of you or delivering depression out of you. It doesn't work that way. You don't know it doesn't. It doesn't work that way. It doesn't work that way. So it's a chemical imbalance in your mind that has happened so we need to be able to trace it back to your mind and restructure your brain again. Sometimes you know it's sometimes people do it with a lot of therapy and you know all the tools in psychology but some other people need to even go to the extent of taking medications for it. So it's not something you just say okay let's pray our way out of it and which is what I think a lot more conscious pastors now are realizing and that's why they are moving away from all that counseling department. So even when you see the new generation pastors counseling department they are they are listed with professional and professional sessions. So they they can they can take on so you I mean you cannot take the way take away the place of prayer. Prayer is very important because you need to pray and you know then of course you would then have there has to be some it's like the onion peel you have to take it layer by layer and on bondo the mind. It's not a day journey. It's not a day journey because it's just like when you pray now by tomorrow you should be fine because I mean you pray together. These things don't work like that because the truth is that some people suffer depression for instance some people suffer depression for just three months some people suffer it for a year some people suffer it for even more. Some people even have to be on antidepressants. So there's there's just so many I think that I mean also the fact that mental health sorry Mary I think that the fact that mental health has also the word mental health has been bastardized. I think it's also a problem because now it's even very difficult to know someone who really has a mental health issue from someone who is just claiming to have a mental health issue. For instance ADHD does attention deficit and hyper some something. Yes so you know many people are now if you go on Twitter everybody say oh I have a GD. I mean I understand that there are some that are not you don't even have to go to like a professional to get diagnosed. I mean when you like C7C terms you get you just know that okay this is what some you literally need to be diagnosed so some people plus on diagnosed plus one that you don't even know about GD or I have OCD so I think OCD and HDD are the most that have been bastardized. Are you there? Good evening. Oh we lost oh sorry well apologies. So I get that HDD, ADHD, attention deficit. You see that thing sometimes my sister is too upset because again there's mental laziness. Yes so with children you need to be very careful. You must observe children. Children natural sense is they don't want to do something right. Well let's take a caller. Thank you for calling. Hello. Hi I mean. Yes you can hear you. Hi I mean. Yes we can. Oh the network is not friendly. Oh wow sorry. Let me see if I can get back. Okay. Okay I mean so you know how some children just don't want to do their work you know so you need to be able to really really go the extra mile to be sure that they're not suffering from dyslexia, they're not suffering from you know whatever it is that they autism and all of that but because some children you so you really must go to a professional and they take them. I think we have another caller. You're live. Hello. Hello. Hi thank you for calling. Apologies sorry. Hello. Yes we can hear you go ahead. We can hear you. Okay so I think when you call just talk because we can hear you obviously they cannot hear us you know so I mean yeah maybe we're going to say something. I think we also focus a lot on depression and anxiety is you know left out of it. Anxiety is very. It's as bad. It's terrible. Like see the amount of people that are so that get so anxious is over the tiniest of it. They move to insomnia. Look it's absolutely ridiculous like I so because me I talk to myself all the time and I always have to bring myself. We have a caller. Okay let's take a call. Can you hear us? You're live. Good evening. Good evening. Go ahead. Okay let me say the last thing. Hi thank you for calling. Okay please I love the topic you've got written tonight. So this topic meant that it has to do with many things. You know like here in Lagos the traffic and everything won't be in a bus or in a car for a long time. We cannot play the mental health. You understand? Even if we're going to be stressed. Stress has to work. I wish people are watching this talk which I'm watching you because tonight you know at least so I can know that many things can affect the mental health. Many things. Thank you so much. Yes if we get tested in this country in Nigeria so I'm going to Nigeria and we don't we don't feel it. That's why it is of people they behave abnormal. Thank you. Yeah I get you. I mean anxiety. Like I can stay up all night when I'm anxious right? I can stay up all night like literally sleep will just disappear everything will just disappear. And it's a deeper issue right? It's even a lot because it can lead to so many more. You just realize that you're always rushing even in terms of like time management. So you're always rushing you know you're when when someone as well that is rushing that is you know anxious where they're going both of you meet is it clash. So say why are you rushing to and then you realize oh you two you are actually rushing. We're going to let's take a call out. Let's build your life. Go ahead. Yes so I think that's what is better now. I don't think that I talk. Go ahead young guys old man. Even the telecommunication water my specific very good in bringing us up to speed is something that I'll forget it. Me this is I'm forgetting about anything mental I also yeah I'm busy reading some books on how to survive the how to survive Balablu and Budabai. The general book I'm reading is against the next election how to grab it and take it and it's not giving a lot of tax. So I'm getting on it to focus on our mental so I think I have to bring back that into perspective. However on a serious note you see the issue is that most of these things are fundamental and it needs a lot of monitoring and electing men. Our people are not away. Yeah just believe me when I say that our people are not away. A lot of things that happens in life will take you to the wrong channel. People are going to a lot of deliverance not knowing that all they need is just to get the psychologist to clean them down and run through their profile and advise them on what to do. But then they are like I want 1.3 meters to have the person face up and then the car and go on the beach is throughout the night and that person is just there worse than the issue. So for me I just believe that if we can get a divisional place like even in churches where you get a lot of bad risk where they can give like 15 or 10 minutes out of their what they call it their prostitution preaching to educate the church people on how to handle because sometimes some some of us come with it from the one to life. You understand you see people like autism where people that have autism some parents are too busy that they don't know that their child is suffering that you understand and all these are need to go back to whatever how do you even know your child is need to go back where you live by 5 p.m. you come back by 11 p.m. All these talks but if you can get people because most people I don't understand there was one um training I went through so they now asked us about I kept your target to this and the best place to get that because somebody mentioned church and you know that company has to pay to a church to allow them talk for 5 minutes and it worked perfectly because that was the only place you can get people on that place they think about words their power and other things. So for me I think that if we can take those things to religious organizations so that they can educate people you understand just give them that enlightening. Absolutely. They don't forget. When somebody is having anger issues sometimes it's not only anger issues maybe it's health it's having it's not to okay or to stress but you think it's just I mean the best in the best that is not the language we use. True very true thank you so much young guys old man I mean it's just to reiterate what Mary was saying go ahead quickly. Well I was going to say something to portray his last point I think that as individuals we should also look I don't think that we look out for ourselves enough because it's one thing for us to say okay the government should do this we should privatize this yadda yadda yadda like that but then if we don't also look out for our own selves I don't see anything possibly working because for someone who suffers I don't even know whatever may be your issue anybody suffering you should come to an awareness where you know your trigger points you know and I also understand that triggers can change over time because the truth is that you think you know all the triggers once you something else happens that has probably never happened before and then it just triggers you and then you just act out and act out of place and stuff like that but then again if you if I believe that if we master the act of knowing ourselves starting you know knowing at least most of our trigger points knowing also how to calm ourselves down when we feel like we're being triggered because the truth is that you can never really control what can trigger you because you cannot remind you your own business somebody will just come from back end of the room and come and annoy you and that's the truth and then you don't get triggered so what do you do in times like that do you have to wait for someone to come and pacify you and it's not only even that but in some money annoying you cases of issues that people have gone through rape people have gone through abuse both mentally emotionally so there are so many things that abuse of even the abuse is coming from somewhere yeah so you see if you really want to solve mental health problem in Nigeria everybody first of all need to go through psychological evaluation true because we all at some point have been through some level of mental unhealthiness you understand just by being in Nigeria you have mental no it's true it goes precisely no I mean by being in Nigeria you already have you have you're predisposed to mental health conditions by being in Nigeria so then you now come and bring it down to Lagos you know it gets it gets even a lot more interesting when you come to Lagos because with Lagos there's just so many things right you have to wake up at 4 a.m for a meeting that you have at 9 a.m you have to do so many things like literally because of you know if this person is not stressing you somebody else is stressing you your workplace you know there's so much pressure so it's just a lot that can happen you know so if we if we really want to solve the problem I like the idea of looking out for each other pay attention then you also pay attention to your body I always listen to my body if my body tells me what you need to shut down I need to shut down yeah I would say one last thing I also think that even in our very because the truth is that there are different sectors there are different places there are different places of influence for different kinds of people now we've talked about church now our places of work too has a very great way of influencing us because we literally spend what about eight hours of our day there now I think that I mean I think that for the HR department of most companies they should adopt the idea of team bonding because the truth is that many people yeah because this whole brain drain is something that actually is something that I mean I get you quite all right but then again it's something that actually works because no it doesn't I don't think it does I'm sorry dummy I think it's peculiar to you not for mental health I don't think team bonding does anything to do with mental health no let me explain what I mean by that now the truth is that if you work better together as a team it can also help you yeah the truth is that anything can be a stressor the way you work can actually be stressing you probably you have so much to do you know there's so much on your plate and maybe your direct supervisor is not even understanding that you can't meet up with this unrealistic deadline that thing can stress you and it can put you in a very bad place hmm do you understand what it can put you in a very bad place but when we I mean even the HR department they are really I mean looking out for looking out for looking out for the members of staff or staff rather of the company team bonding there are different activities that can happen in team bonding don't have to be maybe sports or something calling bringing in a a therapist can actually work do we go back together as a team yeah see good evening my dear beautiful sisters of what are you saying hashtag way can mental health become an universal human right mental health is a normal thing that happens to treat mental health we need to recognize that situate that situation and tackle it maybe through prayers or counseling depression and frustration is part of the contribution of mental health Nigeria as a whole concerning what is happening is enough to be involved in mental health long time no see my dear beautiful to set down a good to see you again on the show thank you a lot thank you Daniel hello thank you so much ladies I think we had fun with this conversation I want to come actually right yeah more more more mental health awareness yes I think we should do baby steps that you know we as individuals can take because the truth is there will always be conditions that will you know trigger so you have to find the way around so we will keep the conversation going because it's very important after we do all the shouting shouting shouting we need to take care of ourselves you know and it was a good it's also a good way to also let out some steam you know just talk about it so thank you so much funny crew yes sure across all our social media hand I do that always show Africa you can interact with the squad and drop your comment and more importantly follow all our engagements and social media like chat invite your permanent friends to watch and follow the conversation if you missed our quote for today here it is again it says every individual regardless of their location occupation or identity is entitled to achieve the highest attainable level of mental well-being we'll see you guys tomorrow at 8 p.m. I must bring another great conversation to your screen yeah