 Hello and welcome to newsclick.in. This is 420 grams, the most power packed football panel ever assembled in the history of Indian football. Do you guys agree? Agree. Just a quick introduction. I am Siddhanthani. On my right is Arjun Pandit, Ishwak Ahmed. And joining us from Imphal is a beautiful Mr. Renidhi Singh. He's studying to become Michelle Obama these days. Thanks for taking the time guys. To set the agenda for today's conversation, we're talking about the potential next coach of the senior men's football team for India. Of course, since Stephen Constantine resigned after the Asian Cup, this is a conversation that has started up and we're looking ahead to build the future of Indian football. And it's a critical element who becomes the coach of the senior men's national team. So, setting for us the tone of this conversation is Abhishek Yadav, a former striker, former teammate of you guys. He is now the head of national teams looking after the administration of the national teams. We spoke to him about firstly, the process of identifying the national coach, how it works. So, this is what Abhishek had to say on the process part. The process to appoint the new head coach will begin soon. Abhishek will be releasing an advertisement and then on the basis of the CVs that we receive, whichever coach is best suited for the national team, the decision will be taken by the technical committee. Abhishek also, if you can just point out a couple of things. One, is the All India Football Federation looking at bringing in someone who is already in the Indian football environment? For example, someone who's maybe a head coach with an ISL team who's already got some experience of operating in India and knows the players and the system. And secondly, is there a sort of concerted effort now to develop an Indian style of play, a way in which our national teams from junior to senior level will be looking to approach the game? Sure, there are some really good coaches in ISL and we are pretty open. As I said, the coach best suited for the job will be considered and the technical committee will take that all. I think the style of play, again, we need to discuss this in detail with the new head coach and of course also with the players. And based on everyone's opinion, definitely we'll try and work out something on that. So question one, the way what Abhishek said, basically the ad will go out sometime soon. But we already have some names that have come into the conversation. The most recent and high profile beings, when you're in Ericsson, the former England coach, England manager, who is currently, who was at the Asian Cup with the Philippines, right? So apparently, the reports are that his agent has said that he is perhaps willing to consider this role. So my question to you guys, all three of you, is what would your approach be if you were in a position to have an influence on this decision? Would you look at an Indian coach, a foreign coach, someone who knows the Indian scenario? How would you like to operate? Well, for me, I think the first thing, the positive thing, is coach like Ericsson is willing to come, which is like a good message, you know, like top coaches are, you know, like they are looking for Indian job, which is a fantastic news, especially after this year. But I personally feel we should have someone who has a little bit knowledge of Indian football. And maybe no players, some of the players, and have the experience of, because, you know, like, whenever I have played under some coaches, foreign coaches and worked with some coaches, they always say that when they come over here, India, what they have heard is something different, what they have seen here. So I feel like somebody who has that experience in his hand, like Dean here, can be a really good option. Secondly, I think we should be prepared for how long and how long we want and what plans we have. It's a 4 year cycle, because you're playing the next Asian Cup in all likelihood, so cycle should be Asian Cup to Asian Cup. Kind of, I totally agree. It should be like, it should not be a short term. I think it has to be a well thought out process how to get out what kind of coach we want. And ideally, if you ask me, we should prefer some of the coaches past who have been here with the ISL, some of the top coaches or some of them are still here. Regardless their profile, maybe we should look at their results, what they have done with some of the Indian young players, how they have performed in the club level. So we should definitely have one eye there as well. Renédy, coming to you, putting yourself in the AFF shoes and considering the difference between club football and national team football, the difference is from a coach's perspective in managing a national team versus a club team, what would be your perspective, how would you be looking at it? It's very difficult, whatever we may say, to be a national team coach, first of all, we hardly play any matches. So to organise, I think it's a difficult one. So for that, we need someone who understands, we can go for a big name, but then it will take time for us both to understand one or two years. And then our fans also, they would want, now as we have one against Thailand for one, our expectation has gone high. So we need someone who understands Indian football. So say, suppose ISL, there are one or two or three coaches who are doing really well, if you see the game. So I think there will be, there should have a good chance to be an Indian coach. Yes, I want to have our national Indian coaches directly going to have it. I think I'm very happy to see Direk has become under 23. We are not doing well, another 16. Pinto and Mahesh are doing well for Indian arrows. So Indian young coaches in India, they are doing well. But for the national team coach, I think if we look at ISL, there are one or two or three coaches who are doing well. And if they become, it will be more easier for the players and for the coach also. So, you know, I kind of agree with both Ishwak and Randy bhai. Now the thing is, if you bring a new coach, and you bring an outsider. Generally, you bring an outsider, you bring a big name when he will bring his ethos. He will change, he will see the players. But at that time, our team is not at that level. Our team has increased. Every one will agree that we had a very good Asian cup, irrespective of the results. Now what this team needs is not major changes, but minor tweaks to take it to another level. And another level means qualifying for the next Asian cup and doing a little better than what they've been doing in the past. Yeah, I totally agree with Pandit. You know, why? Because we need someone. First, we have seen that first match we played really well. But I think second and third match, we were not tactical enough. So, I think we were little too defensive. Believe me Bhatna, Randy bhai. Yeah, we don't have to change that much. But we need someone who is a little more tactical. Sorry, we need someone who is a little more tactical than the last one and who understands it more. So, our coaches from ISL, because they have been saying, we don't have time. It will take one year to understand. When Bob Outten was there, of course, we have best five years. But then two years to believe, to get into that system. So, do we have two years now? No. So, I want to add very one valid point which is, I think, which Randy bhai has mentioned is the experience having a national team experience. And even if we are picking somebody from the ISL also, you know, like there is one factor which we should have. They are playing with the five foreigners. You have to play, you have to believe, put all trust on the 11 Indian players and get them best out of them. So, to some extent, yes, we need somebody who knows already Indian football. And maybe we also know, or the player know what kind of coach he is and what style he is playing. But then the national team experience is something where Randy bhai has mentioned, we don't play many matches. You have to wait for that FIFA window and then play matches. I think that might be one thing to look into also as a very important part. Yeah, because now we know that like this whole system that was in place in India, which was earlier, that if you are playing a match today, then a month ago, you will have a camp. You will probably go to the camp. After that, you will have a final squad. Now that is not going to happen because your season will go on for a long time. The clubs will not release. So, maximum you will get four or five days. And after that, the pressure is there to get results, right? So, the pressure on the national team coach, even though you are playing, let's say, 10-12 matches in the whole year, calendar year, not the season, but yet the pressure is there to get result after result after result. This presents a very different set of challenges for the national team. And also, he doesn't get to basically work with the players on a day in, day out basis. But honestly, which national team coach does get to work with them on a day in, day out basis? That's how it is in international football. That you meet three or four days ago and after that, the coach assesses you and chooses you. Do you think that is it a good idea to have a good manager, top manager and somebody from the ISL to assist him or something like that? Yeah, it's not a bad idea actually. Reddy Bhai, what do you make of it? But I don't know if an ISL manager will be happy doing an assisting role. That's my only thing. But maybe someone from ISL who have worked with some top manager. Very quickly, my point of view on this is just that having a big name manager on top has only one real benefit. That over the course of his career, that person, he must have made his contacts, his own network. That if there is a Chinese head coach today, then I know him on a personal basis. I can set up a friendly game after six months. Yeah, it's possible. Which maybe, maybe Ishfaq Ahmed or anything, cannot just call Zakironi or someone like that and say, Bhai, what's happening, let's play a game. But in terms of what that person brings to this development process of the national team, I would say that I am on his team here where I would definitely say, if we are putting faith in the Indian players and the Indian system, the system that we are trying to create, then I really think that we should, because we have so little to lose, we should also put the faith in an Indian coach to lead the team. No, I don't believe that. You don't have so little to lose. Now, you have finally caught momentum. If you don't reach the Asian Cup after four years, that would be a massive, massive setback. You have to carry it on now, the momentum. You can't back up. Now, finally, the car has reached Patri. So you are saying that all the people who are doing their courses, who are assisting a lot of places, who are taking experience, who themselves have been professional players and have played international football. You are saying that they would not be in a position to improve our performance over the course of four years? Not right now. So I believe this. Yes, Reddy Bhai, you want to make a point. I will come after you. See now, of course, yes, Indian coaches, young coaches are doing well, but to get the head coach for the senior team, I think we still have three, four years. Derek, I respect him. I respect him. They have done well, but Derek, under 23, it's a good chance for him to show that how good he is. Yeah, and then for other young players like, say, Pinto, Mahesh, Viviano, we still take three, four years. No, what do you guys make of this approach? What do you think that Indian coaches will be able to learn in the next three, four years, which will put them in that position? Experience, simple. I think for me, Joseph, he is saying that after three, four years, we may think on them like experience. The national team's football, I think it is all about experience. They are getting experience. The club football and the national team, there is a huge gap. From under 23, Derek will learn so much. That's the best chance and best platform for him, and he will learn a lot. And if he does well, then why not? In some days, maybe two or three years, why not? Derek should become a coach. You see in Japan or in Korea, everyone, it's all their national, ex-national players. So it will be a good in one or two years. That's the thing, what I feel. But then now the expectations are too high. The expectations from the fans, after winning, I'm telling you, they are not going to be happy with the draw or so. But that is good because those expectations came from we performed, like guys did very well, which is in a way good. We should not, I totally agree. I completely agree with my brother, with Orjun. But we played well. If we take such a decision, we will take four steps back. I agree as well. So when the expectations are high, boss, you have to perform every single match. And for that, we don't have time to lose. So if we get someone high profile with all the big names, we may not get. So as far as the Indian coach is concerned, I have nothing against Derrick. And I honestly feel being in charge of a under-23 championship two months before that championship, I think I have camped in Goa. You won't get as much experience as that. I believe that the Floyd Pinto and your Bibiano Fernandez, who are doing really well with the under-16 teams, let them form a core, five, six players, and the coach takes that core into the senior team. Like Felix Sanchez did with Qatar. He had a core of young boys, five, six boys. And he took them there. But here, what is the origin of Qatar? The league structure is different. They stay with their national team for six months later. Because the league ends after so small three months, then with the national team. Once, as Ani said, once the season becomes big, it's a huge problem. Like now, you see, under Derrick, I feel really bad. Unfortunately, he has... He doesn't have that much time. He doesn't have much time. He is relying on Venkatesh's feedback. Because at least he has Venkibai there to tell him who is the player. Because Derrick was with Goa FC. But as René Dibay said, now he has still opportunity. Imagine he is doing good. And why not after a couple of years to consider him only for the job? Sorry, René Dibay. My point is, I don't think you can judge Derrick on this one tournament. It would be harsh. Because we are thinking they are doing very well. What if it doesn't turn out? And then you say, no, no, Derrick Parerra can't have senior team. No, no. We know Derrick has done well in the I-League. Derrick is a good coach. Everyone knows that. So now he has got very limited time. It's a bad part. But then again, this shouldn't be the last. For under-23, we have to create a platform to play more matches. And then we can judge after that. Not on this. Derrick should carry on for another one year or two. And after with those experience, under-23 is like many. When you are 19, you can play senior. So from that on, I think Derrick can take over in one or two years after the I-League as well. So indirectly, are you saying that we need an Indian coach for under-23 and for senior? I like the idea too. Last match, last side, last time, one coach was running both teams. I don't want the senior head coach to run under-23. Let under-23 be with Derrick. This shouldn't be the last tournament. And he should carry on for many more tournaments. And then let's see how he proves. And we have to give him a chance, not only this tournament. Like Pandit said, if he doesn't do well, we can't judge Derrick. As far as I know, I think it is Derrick's also choice whether he wants to be late, continue with the under-23. Because he has already... He is already the youth development head of Goa FC. And either we should allow him to do both the jobs and then it's fair for him. I think Derrick would want to see how many matches under-23 is going to play first. And how much money he will be getting. So he has a life to live. So we have to see that. And from that point of view, if he is happy on that... I was saying, why not give him long term, give him both the jobs. Even if Goa doesn't have any problem. How will that happen? Right now it is that... There won't be any problem. But let's consider it. Then it will be a problem. You can't be a club coach and a national team under-23 coach. That will be a problem because there are many players... I agree. It's a pretty straightforward conflict of interest. Okay. If you are running a youth development program, then naturally, you know those players much better. Your natural tendency will be to bring those players into the team. Totally. I am not saying that. It's a not a bad thing. I am not saying that thing. But what I am saying, which Bhai had pointed out one interesting is like... When will we be able to stay with him and believe... Is there a handsome salary for him? He has a family. We have to see that also. And he is not a small coach. He is a senior coach. But this two jobs thing, I also have to agree that... As it is like top level jobs for Indian coaches in the sport... Are very limited. There are 10-15 jobs at the most. So if you are giving one person two jobs, then you are also taking away the opportunity... For one more person to get that exposure and learn and also grow as a coach themselves. Valid point? No, but what I want to say here, do not just get Indian coach. Just because you think that you are going to pay less and be a coach. Get an Indian coach on his abilities. And pay like you were paying our coaches ahead. That is the question, big question. Unfortunately, it happens in the leagues also. I league also, it has been happening, ISL also. When you take the Indian coach layer, it does not matter. How much difference do you play on the highest level? And I am not asking you to give me exact salaries. But in two times, five times, six times, how much difference is the coaches package? ISL coaches, they are getting quite a lot. But Indian coaches, I feel there is a gap. I do not know exactly, but there is for sure, say the World Cup coach. Coaches were there, the German coach and the Portuguese coach. And directly, I do not know how much is getting, but then I feel there is a gap. But then times are changing, football is getting better. And if you want to see Indian football better, we have to change this mentality. I also feel like at some level, this might become a top-down kind of an issue because a lot of money for that goes towards the salary of the national team head coach comes from FIFA money, the FIFA goal fund, FIFA development funds which is like a fixed chunk of money specifically for the purpose of the coach. So, I think those guys ask or stipulate that a foreign coach comes in simply because they want more experience, people who can develop the system better. If you are taking their money, end of the day, then you have to listen to what they are saying also. That also becomes a factor. Something like Rob Barn, what he was doing, then I can understand. But Rob Barn cannot be your national team coach because then you are sort of breaking up his responsibilities. The national team coach, I think after the Asian Cup and currently where the Indian team stands, I think your group 30 is set heavy for the next three years also. I think we are missing one thing over a technical director which he might have a technical director sitting next to us also. And then the technical director takes into account who you are going to play, makes your shoot. I think that is why, otherwise why do you bring a technical director? I think Agar Renidhi Bai is a technical director and if I am not on the same lines with him, I can't pick him. I think that's a good point. So, when you appoint a technical director and technical director duty, say suppose if we have direct for under-23 coach and if we have a foreign coach for senior team, then like we said from under-23 to senior, we need to have a good understanding. So, to get a good team, I think the senior coach and under direct has to have a good understanding. The middleman should be by the technical director. So, he plays an important role in there. Since we are talking about technical committee, Ishwak like Abhishek told Siddharth at the beginning of the show that the ad will come out, then we will see the best possible candidate, send it to the technical committee. What exactly do you guys look for? Is it a presentation? Is it the map ahead? See, whenever there is a decision to make for technical committee, there will be for now new profiles will come. So, there will be selected coaches, they might filter the coaches by, we have selected so many, these are the suits, these are the four. Now, let's take this is like then everybody will be there. There is a Shyam Thapas, who is the chairman and Henry, who is the white chairman and couple of us are there. Then that is where when you have already figured out like, these four. So, from there, our job is that out of these four, who is better? Who will, you know, like everybody will have a say on that, whichever one we want to feel or that this is best for our future. What exactly are you looking for? Because it is a presentation, everyone is sitting and giving an interview. To be honest, I personally feel like their own record, as a manageral record, for me, having a knowledge of Indian football is compulsory. I have worked with some of the top managers in ISL. I think if you know the knowledge, for example, traveling one state to other state in India is a big huge thing for them. Indian standard time. Exactly. I mean, all those things, he has to be prepared for that. And I think there will be the interviews also then later on. Who knows who is aware of Indian football also. I think ultimately, if you have selected four good profiles, for me it should be one of the best knowledge for Indian football. That's the critical point. For me, that's the critical point. And because if someone has played in Asia somewhere, it has a huge knowledge. And if somebody is coming directly from that top mentality, it may be first very difficult for us. Renédi, he gave the example of Bob. It took them two years to understand the things how he wants to do. So, Renédi by Swen Yoran-Erikson's letter. No, I mean, Swen Yoran-Erikson have done well with England, have done well with Lazio. And he's very close to Bob. And he's very close to the Crystal Palace coach, Roy Hawkson. So, he's not a bad coach. But he has been there, done that. But then for him to come and understand, I don't know, it will take a long time. I guess we should also be realistic and not like sort of these multimillion dollar salaries that he's used to. Those are not the kind of salaries that Indian football can afford. I mean, so we shouldn't even, we shouldn't even, I guess. Yeah, we have to see how much money do we have. You know, and AIFF also... At the end, if we want them as well, then things will come later. If they have an idea in this salary, that means AIFF has an idea that we should have so much money and so much salary. So, I think that may be as originally you were telling, that might be a critical point later on. Money is the world's car. This is history. But my point is, we should get a coach who has a point to prove. He should have a point to prove. And the coach will understand. And the coach will understand. And who can work with Derek also. You know, under 23 is very close to the senior. So, we have a good understanding. You know, when a big high profile come, in the meantime they know who is the best coach, then the 6-7 month is already over. And then if you can't perform, and the next month you are out. Ready, I have one question to everyone. Before Asia Cup, do you guys know who is the coach of Qatar? No. You had any idea who is the coach of Qatar? Before Asia Cup? I mean, before Asia Cup, you knew who is the coach of Qatar? I have no idea. So, I think that's one of my answers to your question. Should I have a point to prove, basically? Should have the want to do something at the international level to do something that's not been done before? If you read his interviews and more about him, what he has done for the Qatar national team is remarkable. Yeah, but he can only do when you know someone, when you know Indian football really well. We need a person. He can only click. A person who ever is coming can only click quickly. If he is already... That guy had been, after he left, he was working at the academy level in Qatar. It can be somebody who has a point to prove, which is again a question from somebody who has been working here. So, this is what essentially I was asking. If that Qatari guy can be made the national coach in 2017, after being in the system for 11 years, then there are so many of you guys who are now licensed coaches and have been in the system for 10 years, 15 years, 20 years. Why do you not have the same hunger or the same ability to prove a point? Definitely, as Ranidhi Bhai said, in future there is one new generation of coaches coming. I think we have a really good future in coaching department also. We need to have an experience now. Sit down. We really need to have an experience. Of course, being an assistant, we get to learn a lot. But I was talking to Isfak two days back. We need to be our own boss. We need to make mistakes and we learn from there. We go down. We don't have to stay in ISL forever. Be there, learn from the best coaches one or two years and go down and be your own boss and then make your own mistake. And from that mistake you will learn and that will take another two or three years. And in three years, you will be able to see, like I said, whatever we have learned, we will make mistakes and we will be able to see good coaches coming up. But for senior coaches right now, I feel we still have a few years time. Where will that experience come from? Say for Ileak. Ileak, we have our Indian coaches, right? This is a good experience for young. Say for Isfak, if he comes down to Ileak and if you get a hold of one team, every single day you're going to learn. So we have good coaches, right? We have young coaches coming in in Ileak also. I'm not going for ISL top coaches. No, no, no. I'm going for Ileak and get that learning lesson from Ileak and from there you will be way more confident. So that's a good step. What Rene Debye is saying? Absolutely. At least I will guarantee you, the younger generation, former footballers, top footballers who have played 15, 20 years, are well knowledgeable, really into coaching and have been doing really good in the badges like they have been doing. And that I will guarantee you. We have a good future in coaching department also and one good coach means we will definitely produce good players. Bad coach means we might spoil a good player. So that's a good thing to have like knowledgeable coach coming like Rene Debye, Clifford Mirinda who has done now pro, who's doing the pro as well. Sameer Naik who is the head coach of the Dempo. Mehraj is the under 18 coach of the Pune city. I have completed myself. There are couple of Novel Wilson have just passed also. So there is a bunch of coaches who are coming, have been doing actually, will definitely help Indian football. Alright, so thanks very much guys for all of those points of view. I think that pretty much summarizes the search or how the search for the national team should proceed. I'm hoping that we will catch these two young coaches in about a month's time maybe even playing or putting teams up that will face each other in the Super Cup. What's going on? Something is coming. But before Bhuvaneshwar Ponday we will talk about I-League because a deadly season has ended for I-League. So we will be coming to you, reviewing that whole season, doing a round up of that whole season where there has been a lot of drama and some decent football as well. So then thanks for watching and thanks for joining in guys. We will see you again soon.