 Din Tai Fung often considered the best Chinese restaurant chain in the entire world. There's also very controversial Amongst Chinese Americans, we're gonna talk about why and what maybe the underlying issue is because it goes much deeper Than soup dumplings. Oh man the things that divide a community man first off Andrew RIP to Bing Yi Yang Passed away at 96 years old He is the founder along with his wife of the Din Tai Fung Empire Andrew They're very famous globally for being the most famous Shaolong Bao soup dumpling chain in the world He was from northern China. He left during the war. It went to Taiwan had a oil company started selling soup dumplings You know infuse some Japanese techniques to get the paper-thin skin and make sure everything of one was consistent I mean and then the rest is history. Yeah guys, we're gonna talk about it Why why is this so heavily debated and often it becomes a little bit of an emotional possibly political and Ideological issue, so please hit that like button and check out other episodes of the hot pot boys David Let's take it out from the micro min to the macro Yeah, I'm not gonna lie Andrew the micro is always shocking because even on the RIP Bing Yi Yang post Andrew Some people could just not resist and be like well I think the Din Tai Fung is overrated and overpriced This is a huge debate if you're gonna say that on somebody's RIP post like clearly You just really strongly feel that way. It's the internet But yeah, David, let's just tack you the tackle this real quick is Din Tai Fung in 2023 overrated No, but No, but I will say this the Taipei 101 version is 10 out of 10 the rest in Asia are 9 out of 10 I think once it came into America It slipped to 8.5 out of 10 and some of the locations are like down at 8 out of 10 now So you're looking at a 20% discount off the peaks already just because they just can't make them as good as So you're saying it might be causing some confusion because some people are going to the Glendale location or they're going to this new New York Location and they're like it wasn't as good as I remember or this is not worth the money because they are kind of pricey So but then obviously whenever you come back from Taiwan everybody's like, oh my gosh didn't I thought it was so good Oh stop yeah, I'm not gonna lie under the one near our hometown in south center by the airport in Seattle It's like a 7 out of 10. That's the worst Din Tai Fung I've ever been to here's my opinion after having eaten a lot of Shaolong Bao from Shanghai to America to Taiwan and Southeast Asia even it's like I I just think Din Tai Fung is still the gold standard I'm not saying it is 100% always the best and better than everything else Especially per dollar, but it's the gold standard and everybody compares their soup dumplings to them So I don't know tell me another gold standard right show me another one Yeah, I'm not saying there's not mom and pop shops here and there that like don't give you a better value for your dollar But as far as a multinational chain, no way. I mean honestly, that's my honest opinion not sponsored I'll say this Andrew What are the two camps of people who are inherently anti-Din Tai Fung in the Chinese-American community one of them and shout out We're part Shanghainese is Shanghainese people. Oh, yeah, well that come on to claim The Shaolong Bao obviously they don't want a Taiwanese chain to make the best Shaolong Bao when it originally Shanghai's taking credit Right just like anybody from Philadelphia doesn't want to admit that there's a better Philly cheese steak outside of Philly possibly like Which is very very possible. That is a totally human nature. I will say this though Andrew The Shaolong Bao actually is originally from Nanshang Jiangsu or some people even argue Wuxi Wuxi and You know Nanshang they're close to Shanghai, but you know how it is Andrew in that region Shanghai is like the big dog Water town it's gonna pretty much take credit for everything around that zone, right? So that's the nativist angle, right? I guess for me in my perspective. That's just pretty logical You're not gonna change those people's minds, right? However, Andrew, there is another crowd that thinks that Din Tai Fung is white people soup dumplings, right? And I think these are a lot of Chinese Americans and a lot of people who associate the fact of Din Tai Fung's popularity and the Fact that you can go to Din Tai Fung's and there are like all types of people eating non Chinese people eating there And they're very clean. They're very fancy the buildouts are expensive very expensive. Yes It's not cheap to eat at Din Tai Fung So then they associate that with oh, this is white people Chinese food now. Oh, it's for white people But I'm like whoa whoa whoa whoa guys guys. Let's just be clear The first locations of Din Tai Fung were all in Asia Taiwan and Shinjuku. Yeah Shinjuku Tokyo So what is it because it's less greasy and it's cleaner was that to cater to white people or was that to cater to Japanese? Or was it because Bing Yi Yang actually really admired the Japanese like mannerisms, right? Yes guys in this video I'm trying to tell you it's not the white people's fault here It might be the Japanese the job. Yeah, because obviously Japanese taste there are the way they look at food and art They obsess about it. It's right typically right They obsess about it the very such attention to detail professionalism cleanliness, right? That's kind of the Japanese way as right, and I'm not saying there's nobody in China doing that Especially of course the imperial chefs like that and stuff like that But on a general basis people are probably more like Chabuduo or Tom doll, which means like you know close enough so David if Let and let's take it out to the macro now if Din Tai Fung is Super clean and super systemized like they're putting 18 pleats in each little Shalom about we were in the back of the kitchen before I went I cooked Shalom out in the back of the Taipei 101 location. It is a very robotic systemized and very everything out Yeah, they weigh everything and and it's so exact so precise. I guess like why won't more people admit That it's like the gold standard Shalom bow or what is it about this that gets people so emotional? Chinese American foodies that are like no no no no even like somebody like Freddie Wong nice guy But I don't agree with his Chinese food takes right. He says no Not no more than we do a good Chinese restaurant or that's over done like it's not worth it. I'm like Yeah, listen guys, I mean to me it just is like a nostalgia for like the folksy sort of village way of running things I'm not saying there's not some great products out of the villages I've been to Chinese villages myself. I've been to places run by people from the villages There's a very certain charm to it. Oftentimes the surface is more Services more personable and of course it's much much cheaper But we cannot think that that can be the only representation of Chinese food that Chinese people want to eat right and you're saying that because Chinese food was not only solely for like Blue-collar people first of all there's great dishes that come from everywhere I think we did a hell of a job blue-collarizing it or blue-collarizing Dishes that were always staple dishes or even blue-collarizing Imperial dishes for the American market, but that doesn't mean that it's meant to stay that way forever And I do think that mindset within the Chinese American community is slowing some of the progress, right? Like obviously like Japanese they don't care They'll charge like six hundred dollars per person for dinner But they feel like they're so confident in providing that amount of value for six hundred Are you trying to say that possibly sometimes the Chinese pragmatism the extreme Chinese pragmatism? Perhaps overly pragmatic if you will can prevent Chinese people or Chinese culture a cuisine From moving to where it could be yes That is 100% true, and I don't know where people you know I get it I think the pragmatism is very logical looking at where things were with the poverty and the austerity And I think people spend a lot of time with their grandparents and their parents and they learn that pragmatism But that pragmatism really is a huge impediment to moving the cuisine forward two things like how noodle two things like Dolar shop Da Long Yi, you know Din Tai Fung team Ho Wan. I'm not saying all of these are 10 out of 10 home runs, but you got to keep trying Not everything's gonna stay the little mom and pop forever Those are great and those serve a different demographic but that demographic can't be like oh I'm getting these Shaolin bowels half off and they're 80% as good and then hate on this one listen No, no, and if you say you don't want to go to Din Tai Fung because it's overpriced. I totally understand that I don't go to Din Tai Fung all the time partially because it's just it's just very pricey right so I get it I am price sensitive everybody like you know, we are we do Chinatown cheapies. We love Chinatown cheapies There's a place for it There's always a place for it, but there's always a place for another level up And I think what happens is sometimes people see like a pricier high quality Chinese restaurant opening It doesn't have to be Din Tai Fung it could be any high-end hot pot chain Da Long Yi anything from China We're not talking about those like fusion spots like a you know what I mean like a mr. Chow's or something Yeah, I'm not talking yeah, I'm not talking about that But I guess every time somebody kind of sees that open some people are like oh they're trying to replace My narrative the narrative that I'm part of and that Chinese food is just can be very cheap And it's the best deal and it's extremely folksy and you don't have to care about the menus You don't have to care about like you can they can be a little bit sticky and the service isn't good And that's how it should be and I'm like That's how some of it should be to keep it cheap it has to be like yeah And especially for people they should run businesses, you know to survive and feed their family But it doesn't mean that that's who we all are Or what we have to be or that's the limit of what we can sell our cuisine to to other people at right Yeah, I mean I'm not gonna lie just looking at the design of a Shalom bow David The fact that there's the gelatin that melts to make the soup And then you have to fold it all together and and very delicately steam it I feel like that's that must have come from like the middle-class and listen man You gotta understand the dispossession of a narrative like that's the same thing that a lot of people are going through in America right now Right certain things that felt like they were for them or they fit the bulk district of distribution of a group But all of a sudden this whole framework is changing on them. It makes people feel very uncomfortable, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah And obviously this is something very trivial, right? We're talking about the niceness of a Shalom bow spot guys We're literally talking about dumplings here, but it is Also kind of an analogy for what is happening around tribalism listen a lot of people in America And this is taking a super super macro But a lot of people in America feel like their country is changing before their eyes Well, I can't turn on the TV and see Johnny Cash anymore. I got to see people with Draco's An extendo clips. I don't know all these purple hair all these different identities man. I'm not ready for it That's not how I see the world and then you got coffee shops serving lattes for seven dollars I mean, you know, I can't even pronounce it. I don't even have lattes. We just drank black coffee for two dollars What's going on here? And I do empathize. I empathize with anybody who feels like their narrative is shifting on them I mean, I'll give them this and I'll end it on this on my part Life was simpler back then for sure life got more complicated. It's a more nuance world I admit it. I even grew up in the nuance world. So I can feel your pain. But anyways taking it out back to Chinese food You know, I just don't think As people who love Chinatown cheap eats, I don't think that Chinese food always has to be cheap and I don't think that Those expensive Chinese food is always overrated and it's not always overpriced. Sometimes you want a high-end experience You want to be served politely and precisely by a Chinese person or somebody who works at a Chinese restaurant And you want that experience and you want to know that your culture can reach this level It's great to know that it's also at this level. But yeah, good to know it's at this level Hey guys, there's room for everybody at every level. All right, everybody We're going to wrap it up right there. Let us know what you think about this whole thing Obviously, if you're a foodie yourself, like do you think Tintai fung is very overrated and why and what does it mean? Like what do you want to see Chinese food in the future? Is it a free-for-all? Everybody can just Fuse it do whatever make it expensive and do it at your own risk Yeah, and do you think that asian americans or chinese americans? We kind of get attached to this like Certain way we grew up and then once it starts changing on us Do we feel uncomfortable with it or should we just change with it? Let us know in the comment section below I don't think there's a wrong answer. Keep it civil until next time. We the hop-hop boys. We out. Peace