 Good afternoon, and you're all very welcome to the IIEA webinar on the UN priorities in peacebuilding. This is part of the Global Europe project supported by the Department of Foreign Affairs. And especially warm welcome to our guest speaker, the UN Undersecretary General for Political and Peace Building Affairs, Miss Rosemary DeCarlo. Before I hand over the floor after I've introduced her, let me just put a few housekeeping issues out there. Our format today will be a 20 minute formal presentation followed by question and answers. I would encourage you our audience to participate in the question and answers by using the Q&A function on your Zoom screen. You can send your questions in during the formal presentation and we will come to them later. For those of you who wish to follow the discussion on Twitter, the hashtag is at IIEA and in a warm welcome also to those who are joining us via YouTube as this event has been live streamed. Both the question and answers and the formal presentation are on the record. It gives me very great pleasure to introduce the Undersecretary General for Political and Peace Building Affairs Rosemary DeCarlo formally to you. After a very distinguished career in academia and diplomacy, Rosemary DeCarlo was appointed to her current role in 2018. She is, and this is really quite remarkable, the first woman to hold this position in the long history of the United Nations and congratulations to you on that. Prior to her appointment, she served as a US diplomat and had a distinguished career, including at the UN mission in New York, and also as Assistant Secretary, Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs. She has served overseas and has worked in the embassies in Moscow and Oslo. We very much look forward to listening to you today and engaging with you on this very important topic. The floor is yours. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mary. I'm pleased to speak with you today about the work of the United Nations in conflict prevention, peacemaking and peace building. And I'm very pleased by your interest in our efforts. Your engagement is crucial in building support for principled action in global peace and security issues. The world today is at a particularly challenging global juncture. The peace and security environment is deteriorating. We're witnessing renewed geostrategic competition. Conflicts are more complex and fragmented. They're also more regionalized and internationalized. They're more protracted and harder to resolve. The wars in Syria and Yemen, which we are trying to help end, exemplify this evolution. The COVID-19 pandemic has led to increased inequality, rising tension, and social unrest, as evidenced by large-scale protests on several continents. Women and members of already vulnerable populations have been disproportionately affected. In many parts of the world, there's a crisis of legitimacy of institutions linked to a perceived failure of governments to meet the needs of their population. The recent epidemic of coups in West Africa is a vivid example of the consequences of this crisis. The climate emergency is exacerbating risks and creating new sources of stress. The areas like the Sahel, for example, farmers and herders vie for a shrinking share of arable and grazing land. Conflicts are becoming increasingly hybrid, fought on the battlefield and online. Disinformation and hate speech are widespread, crossing from online realms to offline action and gendering polarization and violence. In the last year, we witnessed a major escalation of conflict in the Horn of Africa, leading to a humanitarian crisis and allegations of crimes against humanity and other atrocities. In Afghanistan, the Taliban takeover has resulted in a complex political, economic, humanitarian and refugee crisis and a rollback of human rights, especially for women and girls. And the war in Ukraine, beyond the senseless tragedy it represents for the Ukrainian people has seriously exacerbated global tensions and divisions. These challenges and how we meet them have monumental implications for international peace and security. We're facing a test of the effectiveness of the global collective security architecture and of multilateralism itself. The need to come together to rebuild a common understanding and how to address these challenges is therefore obvious. This is why the Secretary General reached out to the UN membership in his report, Our Common Agenda in September 2021. As part of it, the Secretary General called for a new agenda for peace. This initiative has at its core, the prevention of conflicts and the building of peace with a range of priorities from reducing strategic risks of nuclear weapons to placing women and girls at the center of our efforts to encouraging more investment in prevention and peace building. As the Secretary General argues in Our Common Agenda, to protect and manage the global public good of peace, we need a better understanding of the underlying drivers of conflict. A renewed effort to agree on more effective collective security responses and a meaningful set of steps to manage emerging risks. So what are we proposing to do, you might ask, and what are we doing? Let me just give a few examples. First, there is a need to expand analysis and look at a wider range of stress factors that may trigger conflict or violence. For example, we're now incorporating a political economy approach, as well as a gender and climate lens to our analysis. We're aiming for data driven approaches to mediation and conflict prevention, and we're investing greater efforts on new threats to peace and security. For example, most of our special political missions and peacekeeping operations are in countries that are highly climate vulnerable. Therefore, along with the UN Environment Program and the UN Development Program, my department established the climate security mechanism, which provides analysis and early warning on the potential impact of climate on security. With this information, our representatives and envoys in the field advise governments on risk mitigation and work with local communities on resource sharing and other issues. Ireland, during its tenure as an elected member of the Security Council, has worked hard to galvanize action to address this double vulnerability of climate and conflict. Similarly, we're looking more systematically at the impact of digital technologies, including the increasing central role that social media plays in our societies and how it can be instrumentalized for offline harm as we saw to devastating effect in Myanmar. Second, inclusion must be front and center in our efforts to promote peace and more broadly as a guiding principle for the United Nations. The rationale of the sustainable development goals to leave no one behind is a plan for inclusion. It's also crucial for peace and political processes. The UN's full, equal and meaningful participation, another area where Ireland has been an important champion in the Security Council, has to be a major priority. Well, progress has been slow efforts such as the Syrian Women's Advisory Board and the Yemeni Women's Technical Advisory Group show that we can make a positive contribution to this agenda. The inclusion of youth across the various dimensions of the UN's work is also critical, particularly engaging young people and efforts to prevent violence and promote peace. Third, initiatives to prevent and resolve conflicts must take place alongside long term peace building efforts that address the underlying reasons for violence. This is our approach to address complex challenges such as in Burkina Faso, where fragility as well as the effects of the ongoing crisis in neighboring Mali play significant stress on state institutions and political stability. Our aim is to support local authorities charged with taking part in dialogue, conflict prevention, and peace building. This is why, along with the UN development program, we deployed peace and development advisors to advise governments in 60 different countries in context, ranging from Ecuador to Nigeria to the Maldives. Fourth area, we are focusing on as a growing number of conflicts or crises are felt beyond national borders, there's a need to increase regional approaches through our regional center for preventive diplomacy for Central Asia. We've been supporting dialogue amongst the five Central Asian countries on issues related to the sharing of water resources. We're also placing great emphasis on working in tandem with regional and sub regional organizations who are well positioned to respond to emerging crises for their respective regions. For example, our mission in Sudan is working with the African Union and the Intergovernmental Agency on Development to facilitate negotiations on Sudan's transition to democratic governance. And finally, there's a need to invest in diplomacy for peace and engage to find political solutions to long lasting conflicts. We spare no effort to capitalize even on small windows of opportunity. Our work in Yemen is the case in point, our special envoy painstakingly engaged with parties in support of a nationwide truth, which commenced in April 2022, and has just been extended for another two months. Although still fragile, this is a major milestone in one of the bloodiest civil wars in recent history. Before I conclude I'd like to say more about the war in Ukraine. The General Assembly has made clear in two resolutions that Russia's invasion is a violation of Ukraine sovereignty and territorial integrity, and a violation of the Charter of the United Nations. The war continues to exact a horrific toll on the people of Ukraine. The United Nations is providing humanitarian assistance, reaching over 7 million people so far and providing support to refugees and internally displaced persons. The war has set in motion a crisis that is also adversely affecting food security, global energy markets and financial systems. It has already aggravated vulnerabilities and many parts of the developing world. This is why the Secretary General established the global crisis response group on food, energy and finance. The group is mobilizing the entire UN system, multi lateral development banks and other international institutions to help countries face these challenges. The group has just released its latest findings and they're chilling prices are near record highs for food fertilizer prices have more than doubled. The World Food Program estimates the ripple effects of the war could increase the number of people facing severe food insecurity by 47 million in 2022. For this reason the UN is now working partners to enable the safe and secure export of Ukrainian produced food and unimpeded access to global markets for Russian food and fertilizers to prevent a devastating crisis. The war is also having an impact that is less immediately obvious but potentially just as dangerous. The violence has seriously damaged Europe's security architecture and threatens to undo the painstaking and gradual work of over three quarters of a century to durably rid the continent of insecurity and instability. The longer it continues, the more will weaken the European and global institutions and mechanisms dedicated to preserve peace and security. A political solution to the war then is imperative for Ukraine for Russia and for the world. And that solution must be in line with international law and the United Nations Charter. Thank you very much. Thank you very very much. Let me start the discussion going by maybe feeding a few questions myself. You talked about a test of global multilateral system and it has been facing that test with increasing difficulty in recent years. And you also outlined a list of steps that you have taken within the UN system itself to develop better and better tools that if we had a more responsive system could be more even effectively utilized. My question my first question to you and my second question is related to it is, given the paralysis amongst the permanent members of the Security Council. Do you see the General Assembly as being able to play a more effective role and I'm thinking in the context at this stage of the Littgenstein inspired resolution, which at least asked the those using the veto to come in and explain it to the majority of countries. So that's my first question. Is this a positive sign or will this just leave nowhere. And the second question I have is a resolution which Ireland co-sponsored with me share on the issue of climate change and integrating such considerations relating relating to climate security into the work of peace building and conflict resolution that was vetoed. But does that in any way inhibit your work in this area, or are you able to continue developing your instruments in this area despite that use of a veto. Thank you. Thank you very much for for both questions on the first one it's become it's obviously clear to the world that the Security Council has not been able to come together on a range of issues over the last few years it's been going on for a while but it has reached quite a dramatic point. Right now. I do see that regarding Ukraine, several members of the Council resorted to the General Assembly first for resolutions condemning Russia's actions. A resolution also regarding the Human Rights Council and Russia's membership there. And of course this latest resolution on explaining one's use of the veto. I think, yeah, look, I think both bodies can play a huge role in peace and security the Security Council is charged with that role, but it's not as if the General Assembly hasn't played a role throughout on various issues humanitarian and others. It's a positive sign that members of the Council now have to explain their vetoes to the general membership. I'm not sure how much it's going to change their actions to be perfectly frank. I think when I've seen countries use vetoes, whether it be Russia, China or the United States. They fervently believe in what they are doing. So I think an explanation before the main body perhaps is not as daunting as it might seem to some of us. I think, I, as I said I think both can play a role here. I've seen the GA plays significant roles on the humanitarian side resolutions on Syria, for example in the past. I think, however, that one can really do away with the Security Council, which really produces resolutions that are binding in a form the body of international law on the climate change resolution, which was a disappointment to too many. Obviously, I think it would be helpful for the world to understand that the body charged with peace and security understands clearly the role that the climate change can play on security. It hasn't stopped our efforts and I will explain to you a bit more. First of all, we do have climate raised in several country resolutions, Somalia case in point. And we've prevented us from putting climate security advisors admissions we have one in Somalia now we're going to be putting another five advisors in different missions and in the two regional offices in in Africa. Iraq, and I'm in Sudan, I believe, and I've forgotten the fifth but we are, we're working very hard to do that. And we feel it's a really important issue to focus on we know this is going to become more and more of a problem for stability and for security scarcity of water will continue to increase. And we know that that's one of the biggest concerns. And what the one thing that affects the movement of populations that can lead to intercommunal tensions and even conflict. Thank you for that. I have a question here from Goofran Kulani. Let me read it out noting that the Under Secretary General has previously called for the release of those arbitrarily detained in Syria. The Assad regime continues to forcibly disappear many Syrians in areas under its control. One, do you have any hope for the release of detainees. And two, will the UN and independent monitoring bodies gain access to all places of detention. And three, will the face of curbs of all those forcibly detained be revealed. What are your hopes in this regard. Okay, well, first of all, I still have hope. Let me just put it this way. We, the Secretary General has called for the release of those detained. Our special envoy has made this a major priority of his work. He has lobbied the Syrian government on many occasions has traveled there has tried to come up with initiatives that could help with the release of those detained. Do I think the UN will gain access. I think yes, eventually the UN will gain access. Do I think that there's still hope. Yes, I think that there is hope. I think it's going to be tough. I think it's going to be very hard and I think it's part of the overall situation in Syria I don't think we can divorce it from other things that are happening in Syria the conflicts that continue the humanitarian situation. And the, let's say, in some ways the marginalization of Syria from, you know, others in the international community. I think it's important to keep speaking about it and shouting out on this issue, and not to forget it and not to assume that this will never happen. Will the fate of those who have been detained or perhaps bearish be revealed, but we certainly hope so. Thank you. Thank you for that. Can I ask you a question. Quite a few coming in now but this is something I wanted to ask you myself, and you spoke earlier about working with regional organizations and so on, and I just wanted to ask you in the context of our particular focus on on the EU. Are you happy with the cooperation you have with EU institutions and are there any ways in which in your area of work you'd like to see it strengthened or improved. We're very happy EU is is a very strong partner of ours and we work with them on a whole range of issues. Let me give you one example. We had a quartet that worked on Somalia, it was the UN, the EU, African Union and EGAD. We started at the very beginning when there was plans for the elections working with them on getting those elections on the books, implemented transition, a peaceful transition of power, and also work together on the support for the African Union's force that is combating terrorist activity in Somalia. We've had a tremendous relationship with them on that. We work with them on a whole range of issues that I can't think of anything that is lacking frankly in our in our relationship working with them on Sudan now as well. On a whole range of things we've got a crisis response group that meets regularly and different for where we are cooperating at various levels with the European Union. Obviously, the European Union has brought resources to many of the initiatives that the UN is involved in we are very grateful for that. And is now working with us also on the issue of Ukraine and the humanitarian response there, including getting food grain out of Ukraine and into countries that are desperately in need. That brings me into another question and this question is from Kili Nozolovan, a Development Researcher at the IIEA. She says, you spoke about the impact of the war on Ukraine and food security in Africa. And what steps is the UN taking with local partners in Africa to ensure the food crisis does not lead to further destabilization and crisis across the continent. Our agencies are working with obviously countries in need world food program in particular. Trying to assess what the exact need is, what can be done where the grain can come from grain and other products because it's not just grain it's corn it's sunflower oil etc that's so in need that for which Ukraine was a big exporter in Russia as well. And there's been an effort to try to compensate to get grain from elsewhere in order to supply food in particularly in Africa. But we're not going to make it without getting some of that of the supplies out of both Ukraine and Russia. Are you hopeful in that regard I mean you spoke about it in your address and I know that a lot of this work has to be done behind the scenes and so on but are you reasonably optimistic that there will be a resolution in that area. Yes, yes we are because we've been working very closely with Ukraine, Russia and Turkey, Turkey's played a major role here in trying to broker, frankly, this G refers to it as a kind of a deal to open up the port to allow grain to leave from Odessa from the Black Sea area. While there are no sanctions on food and fertilizer produced by Russia. There, there is a reluctance on the part of many ship owners to go to Russia insurance costs are astronomical, as you can imagine. This is a war zone we're dealing with. And we have to find ways also to enable Russia to export the grain. It's going to be absolutely necessary because they're both very large suppliers and Russia of course for fertilizers huge. But we are we are optimistic the discussions are continuing. And we're very grateful to Turkey for playing a very major role here. That's, that's a very positive statement and thank you very much for that. And can I just turn to another issue and that is, I know that you have been working a lot on the question of involving youth in conflict resolution. Could you speak about that just a little bit what sort of initiatives are ongoing there is it involving digital platforms or how do you deal with this issue. And part of our work with youth, regarding, you know, conflict resolution issues is through digital platforms. We have managed managed to with it's an AI driven technology that we're using. I mean we've reached out to like 500 people at a time. We did so in Libya to get the views of young people regarding negotiations that are ongoing in Libya. And really trying to assess what they wanted to see happen, you know what what do they see is the future of their country what role can they play. Also in Yemen, we've done a couple of those dialogues in Yemen as well. We find it extremely useful. This is something we started doing during the pandemic. I, you know, there was no traveling around the world. We were reaching out more virtually but what we found was that we were able to reach individuals who normally are not engaged at all in such efforts. Yes, technology is not as widespread perhaps in certain parts of Africa. On the other hand, it's, it's spread enough for us to be able to to bring people in and a virtual platform for discussions. It's a major issue, you know, a major area where we're working in, but we do have a lot of youth initiatives and the peace building fund is funding quite a number of them. The focus on bringing, you know, young people and women into discussions about governance, public policy and peace processes, peace building is really I think very important. There will be a big emphasis as well in the Secretary General's efforts to implement all the provisions of his report are common agenda. Thank you for that. I was very struck when I was reading some of the work you're doing in that area reading about it. Think to myself, this is so self-evident, why did no one do it before. So. Precisely. It's amazing. Congratulations on that. The question here from keen Fitzgerald, who's a security and defense researcher at the IEA. And he says, hydro politics and the use of strategic damning has exacerbated climate risks, particularly in the type of Tigris Euphrates basin and the lower Nile, threatening food security and leading to greater instability throughout the region. What is the UN engaging stakeholders and what work is it doing to limit the instrumentalization of water by those seeking to be hydro hegemons. This is something that's being handled by the UN environment program. And, you know, very closely with governments in particular under advising governments on what really needs to be done to save save the plan that make sure that water supplies are not affected, etc. So it's not something my department has really been engaged in but I can assure you that UNEP is very heavily engaged in this area. And the question's now on women and conflict resolution and I suppose indirectly on resolution 1325. Suzanne Keating from the Department of Foreign Affairs asks, despite all the talk about prioritizing women, peace and security. The recent questioning of the role versus ways ruling suggests that we are facing a devastating backlash against progress towards women's rights and gender equality. And to bring renewed urgency to this issue. And another question is the Colombian peace process and its 2016 final peace agreement are widely held to be an international model for gender sensitivity and the inclusion of women's rights. What are the lessons learned and how can this model be replicated and other conflicts. It strikes me that in many of your statements you're very careful to be very specific to a conflict. So can we take lessons from Colombia, and can we apply them to other situations. Yeah, first you know on on women. It's, it's very clear that the UN has paid a lot of attention to women's empowerment, women's role in public life over the last 20 years. Increasingly so, I would say that said that doesn't mean that we've made sufficient progress. I think we all understand it agree in fact, we see backtracking around the world. To the point where you haven't seen a resolution on women's issues and the Security Council in a long time. I mean, first of all, there are a lot of resolutions already that have set up norms that are needed or various initiatives like the special representative for conflict related sexual violence. But I think the underlying reason is progress could not be made. And there's not it is no one wants to see any backtracking on this issue that ends up, you know, in writing. So it's, it's, it's an ongoing issue to promote women, particularly women in, in government roles, women, you know, female candidates for in elections, and of course women at the table and peace processes, which is an area that we work in a lot we work in my department we're working mostly on women in elections and in peace processes. It is a struggle, particularly on the peace process side in some parts of the world. I'll give you a few examples. For the Syria constitutional committee with 30% women at the table. And that's because the UN insisted we're running the process we insisted on it. For the Libya political dialogue forum, we had 22% female again we were running that process we insisted on it. And then we brought the government of Yemen together with the Houthis back in 2018 to open up the port of her data. There was one woman at the table. No more than that. And I think if we were to have a, another, let's say, round table with the Houthis and the government of Yemen in one room I'm not sure we would have more. No, we would be running the process. So it is it's a challenge, but we're going to continue at it. On the issue of Columbia and peace process. Yes, it is. It's incredible. It is. It's a model. The provisions and the gender sensitivity in, you know, the various recommendations and provisions of that peace process, very helpful to integrating women. I think it's a reason why I believe it's like 39% now in the parliament are female. I think it's a reason why women have managed to really make inroads in, in public life and in governance. So we're going to replicate. Yes. Yes, but not entirely let's put it this way. I mean, societies are different with there are a number of measures I think that can be looked at and, and floated, but say as we try to come together with peace processes whether it be in Libya, or Syria, or even Yemen. And staying with Yemen there and shameless Alan asks, are you able to comment on the prospects for a lasting peace solution in Yemen. Well, we're very pleased that we finally have a truce. The first, the truce was brokered for two months. It's been extended for another two months. It may sound like a minor issue, but it's a huge issue for a week. We have the sense that there is a desire to stop the fighting, whether that can really happen and whether the truce can actually turn into a peace agreement. You know, we will keep trying to do so. I think the key here is the those who are supporting both sides. And there has to be a desire not only of the parties on the ground but those who are supporting them to halt the fighting. But we will continue. We also, I mean, it's part of this truce is an opening up of a ties road which had been closed for a very long time. It's not leaving Sunoff or Amman and Cairo ships, more ships coming in. So there's some there's progress. It's fragile. It's modest, but it's a beginning. But again, we need the support of the international community in order to push this forward. Do you find inevitably that given the disharmony between the larger powers that it's difficult to get that to harness that type of support in various conflicts around the world at the moment? I think it is. I think it definitely is. On the issue of Yemen, I don't think there's much of a disagreement in the Security Council, frankly, disagreements are with countries who are not on the Council. And, but it is, it is difficult to see the Council coming together in a range of issues. Libya, for example, Syria. It's much, much more effective if we can get a kind of consensus in the international community for certain efforts. And Mark, another case in point, difficult. Valerie Hughes from Ireland, Syria Solidarity asks, as Russia looks set to veto cross border aid from Turkey to Idlib in July, how is the humanitarian catastrophe for millions of Syrians to be avoided? I think our goal is to get a renewed authorization for cross border delivery of assistance. The things who carry out humanitarian activities have made clear that that is going to be absolutely necessary, that cross line is not good enough. It has to, we have to have both cross line and cross border. Believe we're on our sixth cross line delivery. It's, you know, six in a year's time is not enough. We need, we need that cross border. We're speaking to the Russians on this. And, again, we are, we are hopeful. Here's another question. It's quite complex, but I don't know if you could, I think it would be interesting if you could maybe give us some idea about you again coming back to this idea that each piece process is quite specific to the situation. How does the UN go into a particular situation and begin to develop use or implement the tools that you have available to you, that you are developing to avoid conflict breaking out. Like, what's, I know you don't have an off the shelf. What's your normal. How do you normally operate in this way. Okay, well, first of all, we have to be wanted. And so we have to make sure that the parties in question or not adverse to having the UN, having the one involved, and sometimes they are. And, and sometimes it's better for another party to lead a process or lead discussions. I mean, first and foremost, you know, first thing, you got to find somebody who knows knows the, the terrain. But what culture are we talking about what country are we talking about you need needs to have, make sure that you've brought on your team somebody who can understand better, let's say, then others. What is happening in a given country and how to reach out, speaking with the parties in question, obviously, but always, always, always, there needs to be a friends group of some kind or countries who will support the efforts of the UN, and support the efforts of the UN in such a way as talking to the parties in question, when needed, as a way of reinforcing messages. That's absolutely key. And when we see that the international communities divide let's take Syria case in point we had two different groups, we have the Astana group and we had the, I forgot the like minor group and I forgotten what they actually call themselves because they don't really do that much anymore. We tried to get them together. The Western group and the Astana group. You know, never the twain she'll meet bear that was it just was impossible because it would have helped tremendously in dealing with the Syrian crisis. We have a group of Libya. I mean we are, we work routinely with a group of countries, not who are all in agreement, who will help move the process forward for us. There's the bigger group, the Berlin process started by the Germans, which is a quite a large group. But we've got a smaller group that's representative of people in that group, coming from different perspectives, who are in helping us and engaging themselves with the parties on specific issues that we think is really important. Is that a challenge to have a group of a contact group situation where you have the main actors or the main influencers is a challenge between having too many people in the room, or too few. Yep. It's a challenge. Absolutely. Too many people in the room doesn't meet lens moral support but doesn't necessarily help you engage. Too few, particularly if it's skewed to a particular side doesn't work either. I mean you really need you need to have, you have to have countries who are willing to engage but also are really interested in seeing a resolution. Even if they disagree and have what the resolution should be of a particular crisis, but they have to be interested in that resolution. So that's a pretty tough decision. And there's a question here then. Another question from Sheamus Allen. And are you able to provide a comment regarding the use of economic sanctions against aggressors. And do you have views on the potential benefits or risks of economic sanctions because we have seen that while they're very effective they can also have unintended consequences. Thank you. Yeah, I mean on sanctions actually my department oversees the UN sanctions committees that have been established the monitoring groups and sanctions committees. And we've seen where, yes indeed sanctions can have can have benefits and changing the behavior of certain parties and the risks, and often the risks are more because there is over compliance. As opposed to lack of compliance in that, for example, I mean none none of the sanctions committees that are UN run our target humanitarian assistance anything that's humanitarian is not sanctionable within the Security Council context. And that said, what we see often is that member states individual companies do not want to take the risk. So, so there's an overcompensation and we're seeing a bit of that right now, frankly with Ukraine, where there's over overcompensation and implementation of some of the sanctions, you know companies thinking, don't want to touch it because there are sanctions and you even though food is not sanctioned, don't really want to touch that. It's, you know, reputational risk, potentially crossing a line not realizing it, etc. We've seen this on Iran, for example, with sanctions on Iran. It has to be really really carefully constructed any sanctions regime has to be really carefully constructed. And certainly, I mean as I said for the UN humanitarian, it's we never have sanctions and anything humanitarian. The Security Council has been very, you know, clear on that. But that often is that's not, let's say it often translates again into lumping everything together. I just ask because I think that's a very important issue you're mentioning there. Will they accept your reassurances, you know, this is not against sanctions or does it require some of the more powerful governments to come out and say clearly to their companies. There's no, there are no sanctions on shipping food or humanitarian goods. Absolutely. It requires the countries themselves are saying it trying to explain a sanctions regime. First, we don't try to explain things that aren't ours, but it's got to come from the countries themselves. For example, on the issue of export of Russian food and fertilizers. The US has said that they're willing with their willing to issue what they call confidence letters to companies to explain. These items are not under sanction. Not only do we not are not, are we not opposed to what you would do in terms of shipping grain. We promote the idea that you do it. And this is going to, if this is needed, because as I said this, there's a sense of reputational risk venturing and dealing with a country that might be under sanctions for whatever to extend to all kinds of other areas. That's, that's very, that's a very interesting point. So another question here from Alex Conway who is in the EU Affairs researcher at the IEA, and he's referring to the peace process on the island of Ireland, and the impact on that of the decision of the British government to unilaterally revise the northern Ireland protocol to its Brexit agreement with the EU. Do you have any views on this issue. This is an issue I would leave to, to, to, to Ireland, the UK and the EU, I would say. I mean, certainly, like, there's been, you know, you know, peace in the area for quite a long time and that's, that's, that's the goal going forward. Peace and prosperity. Yes. Thank you. And that's a question from Ekaterina Tarasova. And she asks, and I think it's a response to your earlier, an earlier question to which you replied. And she asks how do you remain hopeful about Russia's cooperation when they've shown such a disregard about international laws and norms. Okay, I think let's, we're talking about food and fertilizer here. We're not talking overall peace process right. Because of the indications they've given, because I don't think they want to be perceived as a spoiler in the developing world. I think Russia has obviously maintained close relations with a number of countries over the years continues to do so. And certainly, at this point, you know, is, is concerned about its reputation going forward. And we've had indications that they want to help resolve this problem. And we will take them at their word and do our best and try to make this happen. And we've had a wide range of questions. So if you permit me I'm going to end with a personal question. Sitting where it's sitting where we're sitting now, and we look in at the UN and we see deadlock by a large sitting where you are there you see problems to be solved. How do you manage to motivate continue to motivate people your own staff included, when you see the difficulties you have to surmount to get the smallest achievement. Well, frankly, it's not very hard to motivate them they are I have a very motivated motivated crew. And, you know, we take small gains as, you know, hope for larger gains. Put it this way I mean case in point Yemen. I mean we were dancing for joy, a two month truce was a huge thing, given what's been going on in that country. And we want to turn it into something longer. Similarly, you know as you mentioned the food crisis and the export of grain and other products. We're willing to keep at it until we get some traction and success now. Do we always have success. No. Let's look at Syria where it's been dragging on since 2011. And it is very sad and refugees not willing to go home understandably so they don't feel the conditions are right. Our role is to take care of those refugees as best pass as possible. Do we see a light at the end of the tunnel in Syria. Well we see one that were that could be a light, but we don't see the sides, being able to reach it. There's just the sense that it can happen. I was, you know, talking to a colleague who said you remember it took over 20 years for North Macedonia and Greece to negotiate the name of the country, but it happened. Yeah, peace peace comes dripping slowly and words of the poet. Thank you so very very much. I've really enjoyed listening to you and I started off feeling quite pessimistic, and somehow you have managed to motivate me and especially I think again, looking at the example of how you use what you have available to try and make some progress. Thank you Mary, it's been a pleasure. Thank you.