 or global and say literacy and they have various tests and a couple of interesting things first of all the lower half upper half well the median is eighth grade which means that at least half of the country is not comprehending things adequately above that rate which means that you know and people are told to write to a seventh grade eighth grade level and and that's to say come from here down to there and I'm not sure that that's even far enough you know based on what what you know his strategy has been um the second thing was is that the response to it was a lot of articles about his cognitive decline about he's 70 years old about blah blah blah and yet there was only one that I found that said no no no no no if you look at his linguistic use five years ago 10 years ago he's using very complex sentence structure and very complicated words and it has gradually changed as he's adapted his messaging to reach the people that he wants and I thought that was very interesting so anyway that was it um it's super interesting Scott and did you see I put a link in the chat yesterday to my brain on Scott Adams on Trump yes yes I had seen him before the linguistic kill shots and the persuasion and and all of that so yeah I found that that's been in there kind of poking around and and my my hypothesis has been don't write this off as the ramblings of an idiot exactly and I so I did a series of videos about Trump uh kind of a a year ago I guess in the middle of the camp yeah yeah yeah the sixth series to show exactly exactly and part of part of what I was trying to say is that this is actually I think that Trump's persona is very intentional like he's a better caricature of the greedy billionaire than William Thurston howl the third or Scrooge McDocker exactly yeah yeah yeah but to not write it off as being not he doesn't know what he's doing not intentional I think he does know what he's doing and that's scary and then second small story and then we can start in on the call um there's a really interesting history about Dr. Seuss and apparently he was challenged to write an extremely simple language in order to do a new kind of reading training which was I think whole word whole word training and so the challenge to Dr. Seuss was to write children's books with no more than 250 word vocabularies hence the cat in the hand yeah and so on and so forth and and so up on pop yeah so his constraints were actually to back a terrible theory about learning to read because whole word learning like screwed up a lot of people's ability to actually read properly anyway uh let me let me change rooms for a second I'm listening but uh I have to switch rooms but then let's start in on a call anybody else want to just uh pick up and check in well I'm happy to say hello everyone how are you doing hello uh I'm partly there because today is a slow complex morning but yes I do think this is very important we want to learn from what we did so I will definitely try to be present I'm back I'm gonna put on a nice background um and I'm in a really interesting place because today might be the day that Biden gets called for you know that the networks at least call the election for Biden which is pretty cool today was definitely a much better day to wake up and hear the news yeah yeah exactly no I went to sleep on Tuesday and the last thing I saw was the Washington Post's website where it looked like Trump had a clear shot at becoming president and I was like okay that's not very good and then I haven't shaved since the weekend I decided I wasn't going to shave until uh Biden until Trump basically concedes and that could be January it's true I could be like the old the old white guy with a beard I think my criteria is going to be until Biden is accepted as president which what could happen today tomorrow the whole idea of when Trump like lets his knobby fingers off the presidency is a whole different matter and a matter of considerable fascination at this moment because everybody's trying to figure out how to discourage him from holding on considering what he did with the birther movement I really don't see that happening I think it's more how we get to talk to our friends around us that we've kind of been alienated from you know if we could somehow allow things to sink back into the way it used to be yeah and Ken so sorry about Kanye partly I'm fascinated I'm fascinated that how Trump leaves the stage has a bit to do maybe a lot to do with his role over the next decade right because because one one future is that he leaves fighting and angry and tries to create an insurrection but doesn't work but becomes the head of trump tv and becomes stronger than the opposition become becomes continues to eat the republican party which is towing the line with with who he is and it will get back to ogm in a second because this ties back to ogm and the other the other notion is that he winds up being sort of a lonely sad guy who no longer has much of a following except for a tiny hardcore like his his grande armée raggedly standing by him with you know confederate flags and trump banners but that he he winds up being marginalized and that the republican party needs to be reborn in some way which is super interesting and that we're in we're then in a moment where the radicalized right is more open to conversation maybe and this may just be wishful thinking on my part but but trump has has so eaten and loyalty to trump has been so well maintained shockingly well maintained over the last five years six years since since the campaign since trump became the clear winner in the campaign since the republican convention in 2016 right that that's kind of when trump said i alone can fix this and you could see everybody fall in line and so since then it's been that way so so there may be a moment of softening of the the digital divide because we've been shown how bad the chasm is by how evenly split the country is around this election class you wanted to jump in i have a more cynical perspective here i think uh you know i think for mitch mcconnell this is the most perfect scenario he's getting rid of this maniac in the white house but who he has supported in order to get his judges placed and in order to stall any kind of progress on climate change and other things that are in corporate interest when you when you look at how the american population is controlled by the media outlets there are six corporations that own 90 percent of all corporate media it's clearly on those corporations that the american public is uneducated on science and doesn't understand the science of climate change of the pandemic and so on yeah i mean this there are peripheral differences between what cnn is saying versus what fox knows is saying but at the end of the day 60 percent of the american public basically doesn't understand the science or simply rejects the science so going forward right now you have biden and and teaming up is Nancy Pelosi or whoever will lead the democratic party to initiate going back to the paris support and doing all these things you know redefining what is healthcare in the u.s but at the end of the day they will have to settle this mitch mcconnell mitch mcconnell is basically representing the corporate interests in the united states i mean that's how i see it last word on this theory is here and and i will add that i occasionally have been tweeting over the last couple months that this is just my wishful thinking but my hope is that on inauguration day in 2021 uh trump does not step off the podium off the dais you know watching the inauguration to go into a helicopter to take a slow lazy turn over dc and go into retirement but rather walks off the dais into the hands of marshals and handcuffs yeah jerry i i don't i was trying to play out the he becomes the you know trump trump network and uh it's it i also feel very doomed by some of what's capable there and the the specter of donald trump jr or donald you know the sort of dynasty situation but the second they try to stand up i think that that network they basically start competing with fox news which they're going to do now because they're so pissed at fox anyway i think he wants to take down murdoch i think that's a great schism to celebrate to promote because not everybody's going to follow him away from fox and murdoch yeah a house divided like possible yeah scott um yeah it was it's funny how this ties into what i was mentioning earlier with you before everyone got on the call about the simple use of language and how trump has is speaking to a part of the country which turns out to be a huge part of the country who simply can't understand the complex language i was reading i did a deep dive on literacy rates and literacy studies and what it found not only is that half the country is eighth grade reading level or below he speaks at a fourth grade reading level these people have not been spoken to in a way that they could understand it's not that they don't know about the science it's that they might not even be able to to read it but what what i noticed one other thing jerry i didn't get to mention that was extremely telling to me was that they had a bar chart with the five levels of reading literacy and there were tests for each that they used to determine but in this current study that they did which was a couple years ago they combined four and five it's now four slash five so there's level one two three was four and five there's so few in the five that they combined them into one category which means that it's it's sliding down even further and that the people who can articulate a sentence of complexity you know they're up here and the rest of the country can't even participate because it's like you're speaking you know well you're like you're sitting in an advanced biochemistry lecture you know it's english but you don't know what's going on and so that's that's just a hypothesis i'm working on i don't have much more than that and i love that's why go ahead oh i was gonna say that's why metaphors are so important um when we extract argumentation from media at the society library we have a special category for extracting metaphors because sometimes in news media you know they'll explain something and then they'll add a metaphor and like that may just be at the level that someone can comprehend something and understand the point of it even if they don't understand all of the intricate details of the argumentation um but yeah i i'm with you in that like people have different levels of familiarity with subject matter and so they have varying levels of being able to comprehend something and obviously limited time in which they could spend like getting to comprehension so images stories meant something that explains to them the point without them having to understand complex argumentation uh stacey jump in yeah i just wanted to say there's a whole another part to that picture that has nothing to do i don't think with how smart somebody is or how literate they are um i've spoken to a lot of people who are really really intelligent i think we underestimate the fact that we were given different sets of information and how much um influence the messenger brings to the message so when people viewed somebody that was screaming or angry or on the opposite side is them they automatically close them off they didn't hear that message at all and these things just weren't discussed i talked to people that you guys would consider the lower level of intellect all the time maybe just high school graduates they are so much easier to persuade than anybody else and and not not by lying i don't mean the way trump does i mean by just asking them questions and having them think and come up with the answers and i think that's what doesn't happen enough um love that stacey and and so stop me if you've all i think i said this on a recent ogm call but not a big one uh which was one of my favorite books in the world is the great transformation by carol polanyi which was written in 1944 it's about the transformation from pre-industrial to early industrial society it's a great book and then murray roth bard the head of the mesis institute so like an uber libertarian wrote a six page letter basically that was supposed to be a review or a critique of the great transformation and so i read it and it's not a review or a critique it's basically a screed to get to make sure that nobody no good libertarian actually opens the cover and tries to read polanyi because he knows that if they actually try to read polanyi polanyi will make sense because polanyi is an economic historian who's pulling up numbers and showing you what the hell happened and the libertarian uh script cannot actually bear scrutiny like that so so his his whole letter is basically uh and in his letter he accuses polanyi of all the thing he accuses polanyi of committing all the things he commits in the letter it's really quite interesting and brilliant and sad um and so i tell this old story because a lot of smart people and i don't think i think i think it's dangerous to underestimate how smart some of trump's followers actually are like like you know q and on people i've done the research is one of their quotes and they they're going down rabbit holes they can't tell sort of conspiracy theory from fact but they're like logicking the hell out of this and they'll argue you into a corner for for days so i think part of what's been done really really effectively is walling off conversations walling off whole bodies of thinking like not only was communism demonized in the fifties and sixties but so was socialism and and you know now we have democratic socialists like aoc and the squad kind of in in the game and the far right has freaked out about this and trying really hard to say no but socialism no but socialism and everybody's starting to slowly go you know maybe socialism isn't evil like we've been told for 50 goddamn years and so i think that that's the opportunity here is that is that some of this is chipping away and breaking down because people have been scared away from from from having some of these conversations and maybe we're a little past that because the wicked i was just watching on youtube the scene where the wicked witch melts where she likes the the straw man on fire and dorothy ticks the bucket and puts out the fire but then water comes all over the witch and she melts and i'm like i think if trump and this is why i'm interested in how trump steps offstage if trump melts in a way that's really debilitating to the that this facade of holding back a bunch of thinking and talking that's a really good thing i think judy uh you're muted apologies uh there's a big piece of it actually that is the process the brain files things that are heard orally and it files in a like area there's been a research at mit in terms of messages and stories and other things and essentially the brain stores information next to consistent adjacent information and so if you're heavily indoctrinated by a particular culture with its values in addition to the sociological dimension of not wanting to break away from your friends it's actually harder to hear and store and retain information that doesn't fit with the story you already know and so it seems to me that part of what we would want to do is actually get to the oral histories and and find mechanisms in fourth grade level or children level language simple stories cartoons whatever they might be that would help develop the zone in the brain that hears those messages and starts a different file and sorry this is undetected and this is an important ogm conversation actually because if a piece of what we think we're trying to do is bridge the cultural divide and help people who otherwise one another in both directions have better conversations and make better decisions this is super essential stuff like like and and and how the next months play out i think is really important to the future of the nation um and if there's a way we can help that tip one way or the other count me in right just count me in big time maybe it's tiktok you mean that we should be making tiktok videos i'm totally not averse to that i think this it has a huge following at all ranges of education it's not just kids i mean they're 70 year olds etc they're all racking up tiktoks so the trick is to figure out how to get it into their stream and make it funny and entertaining enough that they listen right and it took me a really long time to see a single tiktok video that was worth actually like listening to with absolutely like brain on but one of them was a young woman who was basically doing a makeup video and she's busy curling her her eyelash and talking about how china is basically in you know um imprisoning the Uyghurs and i'm like wait what uh it was brilliant it was a total hack of the system tiktok is advertising at me on youtube under the banner of i learned it on tiktok like about tiktok is an educational platform think of it that way yeah i was this this i was today years old when i learned blank is kind of their model you know that taking from that meme that's amazing love that um last word on this particular topic which i think we'll come back to in some sense because this is this is fertile ground for for things we need to do so let's let i'd love to just open the conversation about what to do about what we created in the workshop um and i know that i'm on team one so i know that um charles has put a whole bunch of work and ken went went into we have a mirror board which we presented with the with the eggs uh that has become more elaborated and the summaries are in and so forth and so so team one i know has been working on perfecting or improving uh its its results and and that's just kind of one stage like do we all do all the teams need to go do that and then come back together to another presentation or um other other paths uh how do we include the things that people contributed to the conversation before the event started uh how does that get woven into the conversation how does all of that get boiled down toward answering the questions that matt had posed about who are we how to explain ourselves um when my wife was one of my best critics read my essay contribution and said yeah but you don't actually at any point say what ogm is and i'm like damn it um so things like that so let me but you said it you said it immediately afterwards in the immediately afterwards exactly uh that's that's the problem it's got to be in the thing um so how do we uh distill this i'm i'm just opening the floor to whoever would like to propose different way different approaches for doing this judy your your start oh i'm just i'm still partly connecting the other conversation to this but i think if we really want i think we need to start with the simple and then elaborate and go to not the big picture in all of its complexity which we all resonate to because it's it's what do we do i think we need to go reductionist and get to the simplest possible messages about who we are and they then make sure that they're in every you know they're oral they're written and they're video there's a there's a uh well known pattern in uh agile or what was called extreme programming before that which is do the simplest thing that could possibly work uh which is sort of what you're advocating here ken i think it might be useful if um if we ask each team to please review their stuff and come up with maybe three different levels um a complete distillation last year's the simplest thing and then a more uh a little bit more fleshed out like a single page and then they can have you know whatever they want for additional backup materials but if we get it out of that then we can have a more coherent conversation between all of us because there's so much stuff i've been looking through the folders going i thought i'd go through and sort of sort this that's just it's overwhelming so it's a lot of stuff would go through and say here's what we think is the absolute distillation here's the same there's a one page that kind of sums it and then here's the the uh the backup material for that that'd be really useful i would add to that assignment uh since the teams have seen each other pitch um some effort to join the middle so some effort to take their own initiatives and and meld them into uh the larger hole whatever that larger hole is but but but um not just to represent what their team did but then to integrate in in some way i think that would be helpful because that's kind of where we need to have well we do we have a central repository or collection sorry first where are we first ken then max go ken go ahead ken i just gonna say that was sort of what my next if each team does that then we're going to have a conversation to figure out how we do meld all that together so i'm just that's sort of a prerequisite for having that conversation exactly exactly i'm just trying to get the teams to start thinking about that second conversation sorry max go ahead just saying yeah i can win ken it's hard to think about that conversation until i can look at the material from the other teams yep uh well we have we have uh first week we got a piece of the other teams by listening during the workshop at the end as we presented to each other so we we've been exposed and all the materials should be collecting up in the in the folders and so forth but the summaries will help vastly remind me about the folders uh i put i think in the last invite a link to our shared google drive which has the all the work products and will have all the recordings for the workshop and the breakouts and i intend to publish all of the videos to youtube as i usually do for our calls it's just been too many moving parts so i haven't gotten to that um can somebody refresh or send the link to that drive folder in the chat yes please i should be in it should be in my last i think i put it in my last invite for this call you did uh cool other thoughts along this topic i'm counting that somebody's going to find the link and and post it i'll do that um jamie do you want to explain oh yeah sorry i'm i'm gonna um lift right now um so i was just saying that uh in another group where we're looking to find alignment between different projects it was proposed earlier today actually that everyone just lists out like the features and goals and so as as much as possible and that may be easy to grok just from looking at how people had organized their own content just choose the highest level items and then map that out into a matrix and then everyone can at least like identify like where they're leaning is whether it's like you know crowdsourcing curation if we want to focus on the environment if we want to focus on community and then people can clearly see like with whom they align on certain things and then perhaps those groups with overlap can break out into their own groups and then more fully flesh out and develop their own ideas because they're the ones who happen to like really highly align with the concept of community or the concept of creating tools or something like that can you describe the dimensions of the matrix because when you said let's build the matrix the first one I thought was let's take Matt's questions down the left and our teams across the top and then let's see how each team is answering each question and then let's try to distill them over to the right and that I don't think that's what you were saying at all okay so getting out of the list now um so yeah so given that we've already and thank you so much by the way you have a great day um so given that um so given that we've already asked those questions and we went through the exercise of answering those questions and people talked about you know what we were going to do five years from now was it going to be you know did we focus on community first do we build out a common set of tools we focus on data architecture so we could have uh you know this federated knowledge garden so essentially fleshing out the highest level answers to those questions on a column to the left and then names on the top right and then just finding the groups of people who align um so maybe instead of finding alignment within the groups that they were assigned find alignment between groups of people who agree on those subjects and then break off into these new groups where like within those groups they can start fleshing out the ideas of the things that they prioritize and find really important so that makes sense I think you're suggesting a way for us to find our way into interest groups or project groups or what Matt might call buckets which makes good sense to me as well Mark Antoine just uh I think it's a great idea how we had done it in this other group because I was there is also it was more about we're one bucket and we need to align so it was about finding points of divergence and making sure in this case it's very different because I don't think we're trying to exclude anything it's more about finding uh kind of committees and we are connecting connectors which I think is the agreed goal but but certainly there is a notion of uh priority and focus which is I don't think we want to exclude anything but we do want to choose priority and focus and that I don't know if matrix is the best way to do it it's more about seeing which effort is going to help which effort and I think that map is really interesting like if we have all these efforts which one contributes the most as a prerequisite to which other effort and it's more about doing a kind of priority chart than saying we're not doing this and I think that a matrix that sorts us into project groups or interest groups is useful but doesn't help us converge on how the hell do we explain ourselves in the next elevator ride jamia that was great that you were in lift but what is our elevator pitch when somebody says hey what is this ogm thing you're spending time on right which we don't which we don't have yet and I think is a useful collective exercise so that we can we can have more more sort of unison or more sense of what we're up to together you gave the elevator pitch I keep telling you so you're saying we're connectors of connectors and connectors of connectors connect we're connecting we're connecting connectors we're connecting ideas we're connecting viewpoints we're connecting also tools methodologies which I like a lot but but hasn't been generally discussed but I think you and I are fans of that well that's how I see it it's it's sort of forming connections on every possible level to do every possible thing and trying to map that's impossible but but to define you know if we could take you know why what who etc down to three words that says what you said about the whole in terms of why we exist what we're useful for etc whatever language works best then we've got our tiktok video we've got something that we can all look at and say okay I'm going to pull this corner and go do something as anybody want to join me over here that I think the idea of boiling our mission down to a tiktok video is very nice I think that would be lovely to have so we'd be like yeah here's an explanation of what we're up to and I'd be totally happy to work on that and I just wrote into the into the chat reconnecting because this is just just comes from my amateur view of history that in many cases we were well connected before we had a we have robust fabric of of society and lots of places which we have shredded through a variety of different forces the most important of which in the last week or so is this you know schism being driven between the far right and everybody else so so to me connecting is also about bridging or connecting over political differences emotional differences party affiliations tribal differences that's it really as as important a part of connecting which is why I said reconnecting society as opposed to connecting information but there's a piece though that I think I love what we're talking about but is is there a way to just be the future be the connection of diversity in how we tackle it and represent that in the messaging and something that's powerful because I think we all have human needs and we share those human needs and if we could connect around we need the same things guys let's figure out how to do it maybe we'd have a more productive ability to move instead of staying polarized and trying to convert people and things I'm not going to know I just want to point out I mean things are happening in parallel of course in the chat always but I think this one is worth surfacing Scott asks connecting is our essence how does that include content creation and my reply to that was I think that connections like building connections they're embodied in new stories and creating stories and forging stories is how we embody new links and that way that link is very intimate between connection and content creation and sometimes it will be embodying also the new story as was just said but I think this story telling link is important it's all I want to surface I love that and I want to build on that which is connecting I think connecting implies the existence the pre-existence of entities that you're connecting right because because if we're mostly connectors not originators of content for example like like we're going to we're going to create the new content that's going to change the world is a different mission but connectors presupposes that there's a bunch of bodies of work that aren't really connected yet that could use connection that everybody will benefit from that connection being made like that that's that that makes me happy just thinking about it that way and then but but then ironically sometimes the best way to weave those connections and to make them apparent is to build original stories you know and and here with Jay's you know presence in our group a lot and us all caring a lot about storytelling I think that that stories are one of the principal ways of weaving those connections and illustrating for other people in some easily transmissible portable you know linkable way how the newly connected thing works and is different and is better and is a thing we should sort of move toward because the reason for doing the weaving and the connecting is to shift people's mindsets towards seeing each other as part of this is being on the same team trying to fix the trying to fix what's broken together as opposed to being on opposite teams that fear and dread one another and have been taught to you know see the other as in human one of it one is this book on killing that are referred to now and then and one of the first things you do to military is you make sure that you desensitize them to the end to the enemy being even human they have green blood they eat their children whatever kind of myths you can create to make sure that you don't see that the other person is human is critical to getting people to kill people because people don't normally want to kill people and then and then small second story from the same book if you're a sniper and you shoot somebody the worst thing in the world you can do is walk over and see your victim and open their wallet and see a picture of their family like psychologically that's incredibly destructive thank god but but and also snipers are seen usually as misfits in military units snipers like that person because they're just aiming to kill from a distance and that's all that they do and they're loners and so there's a whole bunch of weird psychology around this so how to be how to evoke this notion of productive connections storytelling for connections data sharing and linking for connections and where the ogm task in the weaving is to find and build what's missing and to not build it if somebody else has already done it like like i want us to never you know as much as possible not reinvent the wheel because inventing wheels and trying to make wheels turn is very resource consumptive and time consumptive so if somebody else is already doing something let's help them do it better let's let's click them into the larger picture of how things are moving scott um i i was wondering about the content creation and and you guys have sparked something for me and that i think a lot of your presentations jerry a lot of the ted talks i watch a lot of conversations that that the connecting is the content so they're they're saying oh this thing over here and this thing over here you never really realized how they connected and so so i'm now kind of backpedaling and saying oh i can see how the connection connecting is is the content and and the contrasting of stories helps us rewire those connections and realize oh wait my assumptions about how this works were maybe a little backwards or or oh there's a different way of seeing the situation or those white balls those kind of aha moments i think are the payoff moments of ogm work right when somebody goes oh i see that differently now that's great um and then i'll go to you in a second rubber and then the chris boss the hostage negotiator says that you know you're making progress when the other person that the hostage taker that you're negotiating with says that's right because and your goal is your goal is to say something that describes the world as they see it and when they say yeah that's right you've made progress in the hostage negotiation and in fact the first time they say no is also progress chris boss says no is the first step toward getting somewhere because the moment somebody has said no to you they feel more comfortable they can relax they feel more powerful you can then enter the conversation differently rumor yeah i think you're already heading on to my thoughts jerry because the other part of uh connection is how do we strengthen it so i guess that's the added part that i'd like to for us to think about is strengthening the connections agreed i can so i have this um theory that i've been testing over the last couple of years that asking how is actually not the best strategy because i think we are trained in a sort of engineering mindset of the problem solution mindset so you know how do we do this and it puts us into a problem solving mode um so i found it to be really useful to ask people what would it look like if it was working which opens up an imaginative dimension and then once we've sort of said well it would look like this you know we see these things then we can backtrack and say how do we make that happen so i just want to throw it in as a as a useful thinking tool thank you and i'm a fan russ a cough one of my mentors and a big system thinker had a process he called idealized redesign which was kind of a way of doing exactly that he got people to and it took a long time to get people to let go of the present enough to imagine a future they wanted together and then from that to work their way back toward reality so that's where stuff like improv comes in where you just get people out of their normal mode you do the you know the the tree thing that you know um i'm a tree i'm a bird i'm i'm a picnic and then you know who you're going to leave with just stuff that breaks us out of our normal thinking habits for 20 minutes or so and then get into an imaginative mode is really really effective so we did a lot of this in a very coordinated way last thursday and it seems like the question amongst us is how do we synthesize it and it seems to me that's a slightly a conversation of process and i think of it in a couple of ways you know um one of them is is it fair to assume that everyone on this call wants to participate in the synthesis or another way of asking would be like how many hours do people want to put into that effort and then we can kind of understand our our resource levels i'm i'm unclear that every team wants to reconstitute and push harder on what they did so i think that's a great start a great assumption is like let's not assume everybody's going to go uh enthusiastically do that i personally just am this is the part of the process that i love the most is is the synthesis and the joining and the shared mental modeling and um i'm i've been chomping at the bit for the last week to get access to other people's stuff and see who's interested and want to like join it all together so i'm interested in putting 10 to 20 hours on this over the next couple of weeks or a you know a surge sprint in the next whatever depending on our time constraints but that's kind of like where i'm coming in at a at a resource level i'd be interested to hear what other people are feeling in terms of commitment to a synthesis process so judy had mentioned really being interested in helping synthesize and i know that i am and so a different approach might be to to ask the teams to elaborate or to perfect what they've done in any way they want to and if they don't want to that's fine too but then to pull together a separate call a little a little team that's a synthesis team to go out and look at all their works and pull together things and try to create artifacts that express what we're seeing and what we think it boils down to um to the greater ogm i think that'd be awesome anybody else absolutely and i think it's funny looking around the group you can see the people who are you know just like you max we're like oh yeah yeah and and i know from experience that you're absolutely right there are people who are happy to do this but not as happy to do this and i think we have a group here that's largely ready to oh yeah yeah this that's that's diving to do this it's high leverage work but the beauty is if we do it right everyone will go oh i didn't know you could say it so easily because it will be all-encompassing and and allow all of the divergence that's the richness of the actual implementation and action on lauren yeah i'd definitely be willing to put in a good amount of time um what i usually like to do is if i can listen to what's been going on and usually i do this in order and then i highlight as it goes because it allows me to highlight the script um that's definitely something i would be willing to do to help um at least give my opinion on what's um harvestable thank you and also because we're doing ogm kind of work and on several of you pete and you guys at kiko lab have been doing transcriptions and then have been using and max you took the transcriptions and put them in your row and know how to program that like the idea of using our tools to actually come back to the raw pieces of conversation that are behind some of the things we synthesize to so so not just to do the exercise of synthesis but to be able to then trace it back to the workshop recordings and other sorts of things i'm doing it right and doing it perfectly would be an enormous amount of work but just getting a taste of what that is like would would i think be super interesting and helpful as well uh mark on one um i suspect the next step after we've gone through the this exercise of each team distilling and everybody listening to that maybe we'll have more than one synthesis i mean uh this kind of group i mean i expect a core role synthesis to use uh colfields terms yeah and and also i mean this is a little bit like the three blind men describing the elephant and the mission and scope of ogm are big and broad enough and slightly political enough that lots of people are going to have different sort of feelings about how to participate or what to do and then our interests are at very different levels and i love how meal keeps trying to get us back to those sort of thinking in terms of those levels and being a little bit more explicit about those levels uh but but some of us are really interested in how do we change how do we get rid of politics and go back to governance with a little g that's one of my missions is like politics has become mass market uh so one of my insights uh since the election was i love the Lincoln project videos i was like eating them up and it turns out that they were spending a whole bunch of time and money entertaining the left that i don't think they moved the dial on anybody who was on the right i think that that there was like an impermeability to the Lincoln project and and so i'm like wow okay wait and and then i had a second realization which was um they were using consumer mass marketing they were they were basically add strategists political advertising strategists who are doing exactly that running ads and running them against you know consumers basically of government as opposed to the thing that we might need which is governance which involves actually sitting down with people and saying what's what's happening with you and the interesting projects i've found that have changed some minds have been patient have been going out asking people and empathizing with them in their situations there's one group that was doing a canvassing but they intentionally were slow canvassers and they would go through this i've got to find the group in my brain but they intentionally were moving slowly and they said in a 15 minute conversation you can actually change some minds because you've actually heard them and a 15 minute conversation is very different from a lasting relationship where we were actually providing resources and helping people change their the world around them which i think is essential like like part of the part of the problem here is that a whole bunch of americans feel like they've been abandoned and left adrift and all somebody wants is their vote and then screw them like once they voted bye bye who cares about you and your future anyway and i think the opposite is is true for for all of us here go ahead judy there's an important dimension that we've mentioned several times but i want to highlight and that is that if we want to engage the largest number of people in a meaningful way the messages need to continue to be simple so that they can actually do something that they feel good about because the engagement itself is really powerful and so if if we can identify opportunities of things you can do with your neighbor or things you can do with your sister-in-law or whatever that are simple constructive positive motion in this complicated screwed up world then i think we can build a a wholesome swell from the bottom that won't feel to anybody like it's a push from the top which is what people are resistant and the good news is that there's a bunch of groups in the world doing trying to do exactly what you just described so partly we have to build bridges to them bring them into this conversation learn from learn from what they've done adapt appropriate and articulate and amplify what they've done so that everybody hears about it for example right and and and then latherin's repeat on that okay can you hear me i'm a need of them yes okay um because i'm on the phone uh i'm going to go back a couple minutes this conversations on this these calls move so quickly it's like trying to you know grab something out of a at a point rapidly if i remember i just wanted to offer uh this story i don't know if it's true it might be apocryphal but i heard that when he was in seminary uh yates had a final exam on transubstantiation and he spent two hours just staring out the window and the proctor came by and said you have two minutes left and he's alleged to have written upon meeting its maker the water blust and i can't think of anything more succinctly said than that so i would love us to come up with some yatesian uh ways of expressing what ogean is and we're under using under playing under thinking or under feeling art soma physical presence physical body all of those kinds of things in our work together and i would love for us to range more widely into those forms of expressions and ways of being together and and all of that i'm not exactly even what that means children's art especially uh really quick i think that relates to jamie's comment earlier about the use of metaphor and the way that that can bridge many levels which which brings us back to what we were talking about when the whole before everybody showed up scott which is sort of like the simplicity of trump's language as from my perspective an extremely intentional thing if you watch old videos of trump he looks like a tall thin realist like greedy real estate guy who who's very articulate and there's interviews of him all over because he loves the media he's been on the air so long and and i think that his conversion to the caricature that he is today was a quite intentional and b then ate his character so that i don't think he has i don't think he has any wiggle room to suddenly drop persona drop character and go back to what he was i think he i think he has become the thing he created um in a very weird way but but but i think it was more intentional than most people think lauren i was just listening to george lakeoff today and um one thing that he describes in his book don't think of an elephant or something like that um is really helpful and what he's talking about is the how the right has really heavily invested in the infrastructure and architecture for framing and they spend big money on this and they give block grants which are these huge grants where they don't pester people to um prove that they've provided services to people so they actually can use that for things like um developing uh like social uh ties and professional development and hiring intellectuals to think about things and to um actually build that infrastructure that we're trying to build that there's no money for on the left so it's just not that important and about how in um uh you know uh on the right like in campaign offices you have to like put money into jar every time you use like a bad phrase they don't you know like if you say tax cuts instead of tax relief and so I wouldn't just say that um these politicians are just using these like easy phrases or they're so talented that I'd go further and say they're building on this massive advertising infrastructure that they've used so that every issue is framed how they want it to be framed so you know we don't have that and we don't have that infrastructure we don't have funders understand that that infrastructure is important so that I think that's part of the story is what I'm saying that we have to get the message to funders that the way that they're funding these things is just nonsense so three thoughts and then I'll go to Mark Antoine um one of which is I have a long sort of thread of thoughts in my brain that go back to the 1964 thwomping of gold water in the u.s. elections gold water lost and the republicans had a major crisis they were like this is we're losing this is bad and they then invented uh the Hoover Institution the AEI a whole bunch of really important think tanks now uh they then bought like all of am radio and turned it all into into extremely conservative talk radio the evangelicals joined the parade because they wanted you know abortion laws to be wiped out etc etc or to be passed to prevent I mean all the single issue whether it was guns or or uh right to life or whatever else all of these things came together and built and then they understood how mainstream media affects modern media better than the left did and they built this incredible echo chamber where something can start on right part end up on fox news and then it has to be covered on cnn etc etc etc and the left was like what what what um and so I I totally agree with that and I'm trying to figure out how to undermine that so that so that the left doesn't come up with an equivalent uh you know mechanism to counteract it but rather so that the left actually goes and solves problems and we be reweaves community and a sense of trust across people so that we can solve the problem outside of politics and and mass marketing so so because one of my big ahas about the the Lincoln project was oh crap that was really compelling to me it was a lot of money spent it did nothing at least I at least my sense of it is they were advertising to the left not to the right so I'm trying to figure out how do we actually move the needle on changing people's lives on the ground or not doing it for them helping people change their own lives on the ground uh in ways that we can help channel resources and wisdom and insights and data to them so they can just go pick up and fix stuff right and then and then last thought that sparked up was um I've got this idea I call design from trust and I I'm trying to figure out what's the relationship between design from trust and OGM because on the one hand design from trust is sort of this sort of moral ethical theory about design and how we all might sort of go redesign our world together for the for the good on the other hand there's plenty of other theories about how to fix things and what to do so I could use some guidance about like what maybe design from trust becomes a subtopic or a subgroup that some OGMers are interested in and go pursue as we sort ourselves into buckets and figure out what to do but for me design from trust is an extremely meaty solution to the thing I just described meaning if we can show communities how to design from trust and how to see the design from mistrust that's in their world and how to replace institutions and fix stuff and then trickle that back up to vote for people to change government that could work over the long term in the same way that the conservative strategy worked over 30 years from 1964 and one last thing on that is that there's this incredible irony which is that all of this work that conservatives did to own the conversation to run the table to do all that kind of got broken badly just now in this electoral cycle it's like they sort of gave a lot of that up to put Amy Comey Barrett in a chair to get a 6-3 majority on the Supreme Court and then all the wheels fell off the cart after that and the good news for conservatives is they still own most of the state legislators there's still lots of power there but this thing is kind of broken and to me you know that's where the cracks are where the light shines in so that there's an opportunity here to figure out how to piece these things together and to offer better solutions and to me those solutions aren't advertising messages although the quick TikTok video that explains what we're thinking is like I'm totally into that but but I think that we actually have to change things on the ground mark on twang then plus okay first it is fascinating isn't it that the people who took over messaging for the left was a right wing group because that's what this kind of messaging is and we spoke yesterday and I want to get back on that about the inherent difficulty of messaging and making a soundbite out of a more complex vision a more nuanced vision a more diverse vision and this is the difficulty even if we had those think tanks and those marketing apparatus could we tell the story we want to tell which is but I think we were speaking about that right I remember reading this analysis of the discourse of Martin Luther King how there were all these layers like there was a very simple layer but the other layers were there and interwoven and I think when we speak about making connections I think making the connections around layers of complexity is also what we need to be able to do it's not easy I'm not saying this is not a recipe but I'm saying we need to have the fifth the fifth statement but it needs to be interwoven and pointing to the the more the larger story which is what we do want to tell ultimately so it has to be kind of inviting people into a larger narrative I don't know this is not a solution but I'm just trying to delineate the problem here yeah and I think we'll know we're getting somewhere when the stories that we're distilling make are the conceptual thinkers in our in our group happy and the let's go do it people in our group happy as well like if we can find something that resonates at very different levels of abstraction and action then we're like I think we're really finding something that that brings us together and that explains what we're up to plus yeah I'm listening in I think we can agree that climate change is the overarching issue that we're battling because it is it is really pushing us towards the edge and what I can see you know with the NGOs I'm working with and engaged in with so many other groups what we're trying to accomplish is to change the conversation in the food system or agriculture environmental system to become as complex and diverse as it was has been achieved in the energy systems over decades right because in the 90s for 80s and 90s it became clear that we could not continue to grow energy usage per capita the way it was it was happening then so there was a concerted effort to educate the population on driving a more gas efficient car to insulate your house you know to put in double pane windows and so on and so on so energy is understood by the general population as a complex system and there are participants who don't understand the entire system they understand their car you know they understand the insulation in their home and they don't need to know more because that changes their behavior so in food now we're working now on multiple levels for example changing your eating habits and your buying habits to aid your personal health to build resilience against the coronavirus for example is just as useful as explaining to someone else who is environmentally motivated right so there are multiple levels that can be stitched together into one big story and then broken down into a tiktok stories that address specific population segments so just just think about directionally i like that um a brief thing you reminded me of i would love to create a short tiktok a short video that basically takes Pascal's wager about climate change so Pascal's wager is you know in this debate about whether or not there is a god your safe bet is to say there is a god because if you're wrong you're going to hell and that's going to suck uh if you're right you know what are you losing in some sense although i actually disagree with that entirely because being right and joining a religious movement means you've suddenly fallen into the framework and everything about that religious movement but anyway um but for me i don't understand uh i was in a room uh years ago and al gore was speaking and the first set inside of his mouth is i don't understand why conservatives don't see greening the world as the hugest business opportunity since electrification i don't i don't get that that's not making it through right and and and so the one one way of looking at this is a less less loss like we don't want you to buy a big car we don't want you to drive so much we don't want you to do all these things another way is to transmute what they do into things that feel like more feel like abundance feel like diversity feel like better health and i think that the the tap into how to be healthier so you don't catch uh covid is a really good angle on that for example go-head class yeah the just to your comment about i'll go and not understanding the business opportunities that the companies don't understand the business opportunities in the food business it's the same story as it is for the oil industry and the fossil fuel industry you change it they are the business you know if we if we adapt the food system the way it has to be adapted you see nesli and coca cola and cola and so on out of business i mean in their current business model and some of them will have very difficult times to adjust to where the where the system has to be moved to so you have that same reluctance and pushback in the food system as there is in the energy system this is also reflected at the micro level Dave witzel and his wife and i visited singing frog farms in out near sabastopol california and it's a it's a totally green farm they're doing really interesting stuff and all the farms around them are still doing industrial farming and and in listening to the stories of how they did their farm and it's like three years old four years old they were doing great one of the things that really whacked me on the side of the head was they've made permanent enemies of the dude that sells fertilizer and the dude that sells john deere tractors and the dude that sells you know seeds from monsanto downtown and and these are the dudes that are wealthy and maybe you're holding public office and maybe whatever but but but by shifting by shifting their practices they've made the earth better they they're storing rainwater they're doing a whole bunch of really good stuff they're growing healthier food but but they sort of made enemies all around them and and and they're slowly waning converts merely by by you know she tells one of the wife of the couple who founded the place tells the story that there was a huge rainstorm and there were floods and she got a call from the neighbor saying we're you know we haven't pulled the cropping yet but we're flooding here do you need help and and she was sitting near the fireplace flipping through a book because healthy soil absorbs water like crazy and their farm was doing fine their their plot their few acres you know smaller than the neighboring farm wasn't suffering from from the flood because they'd repaired the soil right but but how that trickles up i i don't know um yeah uh it's the james james so that thanks for being on the call and through elevators and street traffic and thick and thin that's awesome and let's let's maybe boil down what we've been talking about into a couple of steps to take because i like what we're talking about i would i'd like to get slightly more solid handles on it i think i'm going to start by proposing i think this means that a subgroup of us gets together and starts being a synthesis team and should have a call and meet and figure out what that is and stacey i just noticed you have your hand up sorry go ahead yeah i just wanted to go back to what you had mentioned about covid because i think that is a really good opportunity of the people that i know that i said you know they're very intelligent and yet they're totally on the other side they're really fixed aside from the fact that some of them have been brainwashed into thinking that covid was a hoax or whatever they really are into the idea of um developing our immune system and i think that plays into the farming and would motivate people to be on the same side when it comes to changing the way our farming industry is i think that's a really good place to tap into so i think at some point we also need to curate a list of um i'm just going to call it tick tock videos but a list of small stories that we'd be enthused to create and put in the world as experiments and uh and this would be one of them which is maybe the link the link between uh your own health avoiding covid soil fertility better food etc like like can we weave that together into some story can we manifest it in a series of different ways using ogm's variety of tools so can we not only like tell a good story and and whatever but also show a systems diagram in kumu that says by the way if you do this it does that etc like i don't know and i'm just trying to say can we build some experiments around these stories and then organize ourselves so you just go do those things put them in the world and see what happens mark i'm fine go ahead and that that's very interesting like instead of finding the uh how to resolve the difference find the points of prior alignment and build on them i mean i'm reminded of rals saying that we build tolerance for other viewpoints by working with them on what he calls overlapping consensus that is those points where there's overlap on what to do even if there's no overlap on the reasons why to do it or the underlying theory of the world but at least then you build this familiarity which can then build into uh you know others within he builds into overlapping consensus and walls but whatever the building on those points of intersection sounds great that's part of the connections thank you just to amplify i'm sorry judy then can just to amplify on what jerry said and what you said i think that if we can do really simple stories you know positive cartoons another part of engagement is making it seem like it is possible because it's hopeful you know so short hopeful stories um in our messaging would go a long way because there's not a lot of hopeful stuff coming out these days we have very much so and and there's good reason to be hopeful in lots of different ways i think there's opportunity there's there's lots of opportunity to do that and i just typed into the chat one thing i meant to say which is i would be extremely interested in different people's opinions on the workshop results so as we synthesize things we don't need to synthesize toward only one canonical result and we already said there might be two different major narratives or whatever that come out but there might be 15 different substories that are super interesting to us of people who say i it's it's like what i think of story threader is doing i i saw these nuggets on the ground that aren't really part of the major narrative but they're really compelling to me and here's my story or my perspective or my take on that and i would love to to see those emerge as well at lauren i just like to remind us that we are kind of new on stuff like tiktok and so what would really be helpful is if we can get someone who's actually an expert who knows things like tiktok or twitter or something like that and then say hey would you like a whole posse to discuss something that you're interested in that we can like you know um ideate on and then they can kind of take that we can work with them to create a story that they can push out that you know that they are experts in knowing because you need that you know other end of an audience already there who would who volunteers to put a note on the ogm list to check our networks for a young human who knows how to use tiktok pretty well maybe i should bring in my daughter here rumour that'd be great if somebody if somebody like like your daughter could give us a tutorial on how to use tiktok well that would be phenoms i think that'd be one of the terms of using in terms of using tiktok well uh i watched an interview with sarah cooper who's the woman who does the imitations in Donald Trump it takes her about eight hours to do one minute of tiktok so and she's been using it for a while so um anything we can do you know nancy duarte in her wonderful book slide ology says any an hour long presentation done really well is going to take 40 hours to prepare for so we have to recognize that while this is a wonderful idea there's a significant amount of work to make that happen and then i wanted to go back to something scott said at the beginning where um you know so many people are working at a very low level of education so it's got to the things that we do need to invite them in in a way that do not see that we're talking down to them but make them feel like they can be included in the conversation and so that's going to be another challenge for those of us who are a little more intellectual to find out how do we put it in simple language not dumb it down but put it in appropriate inviting language that's going to work for them one of the things that was a superpower of ross a coughs that irritated all of his peers in systems thinking was that he could take really sophisticated ideas and put them in tenth grade language maybe not fourth grade language but tenth grade language so and his books were extremely understandable his and so he appealed tremendously to corporate executives he was you know he was in at bush at mars at so and has a bush mars martin marietta a whole bunch of big companies loved him because he could express himself very very simply and his peers hated him because he wasn't writing academic papers with long words and he wasn't citing everybody else's research you know as he wrote academic papers he was actually trying to be practical in the field scott go ahead so to ken's point about how much time it takes to make a set of video something i learned recently was that one of the reasons that the new podcasts that are three hours long are are taking off is because they're they're unedited and so to speak to your jerry's idea about trust and how bringing trust in one of the nice things about it as you watch the whole conversation there's no well we rearrange this we cut out this section and so what i'm thinking is that one of the things about tiktok or other other medium like that is that they seem authentic just because they didn't take 40 hours to make 30 seconds and the ones that that do that there's that that trust that okay is this is this trying to do something that that i don't trust i mean i was watching a thing with my wife last night a guy was out camping in the woods for two hours and we watched him set up the tent and cook and and it was just it was just authentic there was something about it that it didn't feel manipulative just because it was just you know it wasn't polished so um and you just triggered another i i think i dreamt last night that i had a podcast again which is weird um because i had a podcast called the yi tan weekly call does anybody in this in this room remember the yi tan calls ken was there judy yep exactly um so i did that for nine years with pip coburn and then i put it to sleep about a year before podcasting got hot again so really good timing on that also i was terrible about fixing the back end so it never quite clicked over to apple to itunes podcast and all of that the back end didn't work all of these calls are available right now in the internet archive for free there if you just search for yi tan with a hyphen you'll find them but i was sort of dreaming like oh maybe i should maybe i should just be podcasting my experience of our journey together in ogm and blah blah and you just made me realize i have a pure audio file of every one of our calls which i have been putting on youtube like all of our ogm calls and this one will go up today they're all on youtube but there's just no reason whatsoever why they couldn't be repurposed and put on into a podcast which would be really i think lovely um does anybody think that's a good or bad idea yes and that it needs to be a short podcast um meaning somebody needs to edit it down because that that's the that's the critical thing is if you want to edit this that is going to take a huge amount of time if you think that sitting through authentic conversations about fixing the world that take time but are interesting is worth it then that's easy for us to do the moment we have to edit these down we we then need to hire somebody or do something different and make judgments about what what to snip out of the calls the other thing we could easily do judy is um if we find a way to mark important moments in our calls and go back to them lauren either from the auto transcript or from something else we could easily create a separate podcast which is just highlights of um ogm calls which might be really interesting so mark entwine then lauren the a i think having them is a good idea because they're there they're useful and it's the reality that in the long form very few people will listen to them and that's the reality but again connecting them with the transcript means that people will be able to find excerpts i'm all for that i think i want to bring back something ken said uh or and something i was saying like you know i said we need to connect the pit statements to the more complex language and then ken said well we need to invite people into conversations and i thousand percent agree with that i mean people won't participate unless they have a chance to be heard and and that means conversations which take time which are elaborate where things get repeated many times over by different people and that's what the process is so how do we i mean that's been my technical work for a while right how to go from this long form conversations to synthetic views and i think that's key right the we need the long form conversations because that's where change happens it's it takes time to change it takes time to uh you know get aligned and we do need to be able to have here's the fifth statement that came out of this so that people can be exposed to that and that when people are seeing here's the publicity version of that because they will have to be a publicity version here's how it connects to this well these are the key findings with the more diverse view that came out of that and further here's all the conversation where this arose so making those connected i still think is a key thing and sorry i'm tooting my horn again but i think those connections need to you have a lot of horn to toot it's very good um and judy i'm sorry that i dampened your excellent idea early because well because i wasn't realizing what crowd i'm sitting in right now and it's like i think i think the long form podcast could be one offer and we should just do that and that's an easy thing for us to do and then let's apply our tools and do everything that you said and that marquantouane just said and so forth so i think that would work great and lauren and i have been talking and probably why she has her hand up because in the harvesting process we were proposing to collect these snippets from all of the snarky calls and use those you say more lauren you're better at this than me yeah go ahead lauren yeah so we've been um akikala we've been um doing a lot on harvesting so i've kind of developed a uh in a an approach of kind of a um way of doing quickest kind of a wrap of a session where it's a lot less editing time where we upload it to otter get the transcript anyone can go in there and highlight it and then it time stamps it which allows me and if we had software we could do it all together i use um i use adobe software because i'm a graphic designer um but if we had you know some some group software we could even do it as a group where um it once it's highlighted i can just take it out by the time stamp and make the cuts and do it pretty much quicker than um normally so that's the thing sorry lauren um ken than me uh just want to throw in um over the years i've developed what i call authentic crowdsourcing you know crowdsourcing is putting up a question on the internet and people just put out whatever their ideas are which is great to generate ideas but it doesn't get you drill down into what's underneath so uh in working with a couple corporations um i have developed a world cafe process where i've got people at tables and four and a proposal is put forth by the vp and i ask people three questions and i have envelopes on the table for them do the harvesting so the first question is what's exciting to you about this what why do you like this idea and they talk for 20 minutes or 30 minutes and then i have them pull out the envelope and take out the cards and write down the you know one sentence pissy thing i'm here's what i really love about this and the they go to a new table and the second round is um what is um uh unclear to you about this what what are the problems you see with this and again they have that conversation and they're with their peers so they really understand what's going on and again they do the harvesting of that and then the third round um new table new people and they talk and the question is what question or questions do you have that need to be addressed before you can move forward with this idea so that we're now getting down to i get this i'm excited about this i'm concerned about this in order for me to move forward i need to know this and write that down and i've done that a few times now and it's an amazing process we're in three hours i generated one itself spreadsheet with 250 people in the room there were uh like 1500 questions at the end and um so the this guy thought he had this really simple idea right he got 500 questions of this range no and they were you know a lot of more overlapping but it is a really fantastic way to bring people together in conversation uh those three things seem to be really working well together what am i what do i like about this what am i unsure about what do i need to know to work with it i think we could do something ogm could do something in terms of holding um the combination of world cafe open space calls uh with people who'd like to come in around specific ideas using that format could be really juicy and give us a way to to find out what people are most interested in and and how we can move forward with some of our we've been talking about here today also um have you described this process and posted it any place online would you be interested in doing that because i think part of what we can also be is curators of really great group process techniques uh and publish them so that other people can pick them up and reuse them at which point we also cross this line into intellectual property and how people feel about that and their own ideas and all of that so i'm very aware that some people's process methods are are things they hold near and dear to their hearts but my my hope is that we can actually put a lot of high functioning uh group process in the world and then be guides to people finding really great group process and then and that can people like you become custodians guides concierges of a variety of group process techniques and where you are expert in a few that you love you are knowledgeable in many more that you've heard of that you like that you recommend and where you're kind of a guide to others and other people who are guides to the rest of it you know like like Nancy White and you know we we know a zillion fabulous facilitators how do we how do we enable much more of that to show up in companies which takes me down a whole different piece which maybe may go back to the idea of guilds here in in OGM but i think that improving meetings and improving corporate decision making is a huge opening for us and knowledge management has beat its head you know against the wall for for 35 years and has made only a little bit of inroads but but if we can help organizations lather or rinse repeat on what you're describing and do a much better job of it and have a corporate memory then we're really kind of getting someplace interesting no i've not read it up yes i do want to do that i'm not trying to hold anything close to the vest here i think we need to get stuff out in the world that works and so my only request would be if people use it to just let me know and credit me with it you know this came from can like a kind of a liberating structure sort of thing you know i want it to be out there in the world i'm not trying to do you want to send me a little bunny fine but i'm not expecting that so and building in a way to reward the creator of an idea while keeping the idea free is something i love and believe in very strongly do you have a patreon page can do not that might be a good thing to start and then mark on one this takes us back to the conversation of how broad should the semantic media wiki be that we would like to to cultivate a pattern language in but i can easily envision describing this methodology on said wiki which apparently you like cool um and we're we're going like into the 90 minute territory we should start wrapping up any uh and i'm just catching up on the chat any sort of uh summarizing words toward where this takes us well i think we've decided we need to have some synthesis good max good all right i didn't have my mic positioned right uh do we have representatives from each of the five breakout groups i don't think you mean in this group i don't think we're all represented here so one hold up your uh one two five i don't see any fours or three sorry i'm four this four uh max game score so we don't have anybody from three okay cool we're close i mean i think if it's i think it'd be useful to have a a wrap from from team three um and you know pick a time i don't know we didn't spend much time entirely diving into what the exact process will be for synthesis so we kind of need to um design it before meeting again or design it once meeting again um and feel our way through it what are the meantime we have three excuse me that's from team three was he going to participate matt um okay yeah and matt was on this call would it make sense to do some pre-work and in on email i was i was just gonna ask would somebody in on this call like to write a note to the whole ogm list saying what we'd like to do with this process and asking anybody from group three to jump in uh and saying anybody who feels like they'd like to you know add energy to the synthesis process please like raise your hand contact me or us or whatever uh would one of you like to do that i'm happy to help edit it or whatever but it'd be really great to to get that in the room describe a process proposal process yeah so basically an invite to the ogm list to join a synthesis team uh to look at what we did in the workshop and uh and also a specific invite to anybody on team three uh to be represented in it you know on the group but but basically to to try to move toward outputs uh the kind we've been talking about on this call the time for a meeting we can do that after let's first let's first assemble a squad and then we can pick a time for a call with a doodle to the team or whatever right go ahead mark i think that's absolutely agree but it should come after each team had a chance to do its own and finish its own synthesis work so just make make sure that this is part of the email maybe that to say phase one let's finish synthesis work in teams and phase two let's have a synthesis team but i agree everybody should be invited that's i want i want to do my own invitation i'm thinking this notion of connecting pit statements to conversations to everything for me that's extremely important and i think i'd like to have a conversation with others about how could that look like but that's a separate thing cool um scott go ahead very brief comment over the course of my time with this group and the expanded group it has felt like we've been going like this and this is a massive problem to say what do we do who are we and yet it now feels like every single time we get together we're going like this and so that's my my as long as we don't go like this yeah and you've all seen the trump accordion videos yes i love the trump accordion videos they're so good okay so um let's wrap this call i just want to say that today might be the day that at least the media say that biden is the next president of the united states i am crossing my fingers and hoping that happens i'm not going to count any chickens before they hatch i i also want to sort of do a a build-back better ogm call uh that basically says okay so that happened and it happened in a weird way what can we do how do we participate what what does this moment open up for ogm so i'll i'll do that in a week or two but thank you for thank you for distilling together this is this was a really useful call go ahead ken i'm uh i just went over to the washington post i'm looking at um 12 o'clock 5 p.m biden's lead doubles in nevada as new posts are new votes are reported so it's it's looking good uh fea has prepared restrictions over the area around biden's home uh poloses calling biden president-elect um so you know fingers are crossed but it's it's definitely working uh i'm waiting for fox news to be the first major media outlet to call the election for biden which could happen because they were aggressive in calling arizona so they're they're the only ones in the major media i guess washington has now joined them but but they were early so i'm i'm crossing my fingers that that the group that says biden is the next president is in fact fox news which is like this crazy irony well biden's got 253 at trumps 214 according to wapow i know different media outlets have driven things and he's ahead in pennsylvania and pennsylvania is worth 20 so that puts him over right there um georgia he's got 29 in georgia and he's way uh oh sorry georgia is 16 very close um arizona he's ahead by two and nevada he's up by uh point seven so it's a nail biter exactly um all right everybody uh thank you very much been awesome i'll post this video and uh we'll send some some notes to the list good to see you all for now yeah