 So basically we just want to, you know, get your journey into veganism and how you feel about the state movement. So if you want to just start with what made you decide to go vegan. Okay, well, in short, I led a very colourful life. I fell into games and drug use really young and I spent about 12 years of my life involved in that world. And then I was arrested for carrying a firearm and that put me into prison. And while I was in prison, I had this moment of clarity and sobriety. And I started to view my life differently and see all the mistakes I had made. And I was then released on parole, which was another barrier to my substance use. Because you said to me, you have like a bit of a vomit history. Yeah, I mean, with the final lifestyle, you know, fighting and using intimidation to get my way. That's how we grew up. It was in this area where if you didn't do that, you were pushed to the side. You got your lunch taken, you know, you go to school and if you weren't protecting your stuff, you were going to take it. That's the way we lived, you know, and it was a tough lifestyle, you know, in and out of jail. And then once I met her, you know, she was actually the one who got me to like stop toting guns in the first place. You know, I took guns everywhere and getting into big massive 20 on 20 people fights. Yeah, it was horrible. So that's why I always try to take a step down a bit because I'm like, well, this person, yeah, they're unconsciously abusing animals through their eating habits and wearing, you know, these products. I was consciously abusing people like, you know, like, obviously it's a different world. You're trying to defend yourself and it's a war zone. But still, like, I think having that being humble and it's going to help us in our conversations with others as well. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. But then once I was sober for long enough, this seed started to grow and grow and grow and grow. And then I just decided one day after criticising my mum for smoking, she said, look in the mirror. And then I did. I really looked in the mirror and I started to analyse my own morality and I was like, you know, I know it's wrong to eat animals like I know it's wrong. I'm totally morally against it yet I still do it. So yeah, I went vegan next day. She really started to bring that compassion out in me. And then once I, you know, started to realise what was happening to the animals. And I was like, something just triggered one day when she said, put yourself in the animal's perspective. And I actually, you know, was watching this pig die when I was like 12 years old. And immediately put myself in his perspective and he was screaming like a little kid, you know. You know how pigs scream, I mean. And this was like a pig that we raised. This was my friend, you know. And we even didn't even eat that. I didn't eat that pig. I ate pigs after that but I didn't eat that particular one because I had a connection with them, you know. And then once you say, you know, put yourself in the animal's perspective, boom, I was right there. You know, I was him. Once I did that, you know, you really can't undo that. You know, once you really put yourself there and you understand that these animals are just like dogs, are just like humans in all the ways that matter, that's really what changes people. Seeing the animals in the back of their trucks just lit the fire in me so, and it compelled me to work harder. And I saw the value in Bearing Witness and, you know, getting the animals before they go into that slaughterhouse, their faces, spreading that as far as I could, I saw that as a valuable form of advocacy. So people see it on a surface level, like just standing out the front of a slaughterhouse. Like what's that going to do? They don't see the phones in your hands. They don't see the window into the audience of, you know, sometimes millions of people that are all getting affected by us seeing the faces of their food. So yeah, like never downplay the same movement as one of the most powerful forms of activism that we have on hand. If you find out that your actions are causing abuse and everyone else's actions around you are causing abuse, it's only the logical extension of that is to speak up about it. Like if you see someone abusing a child, hitting their partner, doing something really bad, you're going to say something, do something, I mean, just with vegan activism, you have to be more strategic about it. You can't just walk up and yell at people. I mean, obviously there's a cultural indoctrination that's happened. So you have to advocate and I just couldn't sit by and watch while animals being butchered. Because, you know, at first it was, you know, you're compassionate towards, you know, pigs and chickens because they're bigger or, you know, cows because they're bigger. And then it grows to chickens and then fish and then even smaller animals, crabs, you know. There's Sebastian. He's a bit scared. He's a bit scared. We were doing a beach cleanup and we saw a guy just snatching crabs off the little sand crabs off the beach. Put them in a bucket and hooking them, right? And my son Landon, he's like, this isn't right, you know. Even though they're crabs, this still isn't right. So we went up and he was like, can I save some of these crabs? Please let me save the crabs, right? See you, buddy. We love you, Sebastian. Sebastian got rescued from a restaurant tonight. He would have been eating. The first vigil I went to, I actually did myself. Oh yeah? There was a gas chamber in Murray Bridge in Adelaide and I sat out the front of there for a couple of days and waited for trucks to come. And when I sort of had an idea of when the truck came, I just recruited a bunch of people, like five people and said, hey, do you want to come and stop this truck with me? I stood in front of the truck and got him to stop for about 30 seconds. We got some footage of the pigs, made a video about it and that was the first time I've all witnessed. That's amazing. Do you feel like your compassion for human beings is sort of getting better the longer that you're showing compassion to animals and opening up that? Sure. Yeah, for sure. You know, even when I went vegan, I was more compassionate towards animals than humans, you know. But once you start realizing, you know, everyone deserves compassion. Yeah. And the reason for that was, you know, these animals were innocent. Yeah. You know, and like they couldn't protect themselves. Yeah. And then I felt like, you know, human beings could. The more you dive into this and the more research you do and the more you see, you know, you just, you become way more compassionate for everyone. I think it's a big thing that we need to like have an understanding of from being on both sides. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, instead of being angry at the people, be more angry at the act that happens to animals and try to reach the people through their heart, maybe. Because like when I first started doing outreach and, you know, activism, I was super angry, you know. Why aren't you vegan, you know? I get it. Why don't you get it, you know? And you really have to take a step back and be like, I was that person, you know. I've never actually seen anyone break down to the point where they can't handle an individual. Usually what happens is people have this shift in perspective. They see the animals in the back of the truck and they're like, wow, I feel like this. Imagine how they feel and they sort of overcome with strength. I have to be strong for them and it's amazing. Like I see people transform at these vigils. I see people that was so afraid of going. But once they step outside that comfort zone, make the step, they're overcome with the strength and this confidence because they realize in that moment that they're not, they're not the victim. You know, the animals are. Sentient beings, childlike animals. Is there any one animal that sticks out to you in your memory when you look back at all the vigils you've attended? Oh, that's going to make me upset. If you're not comfortable, we don't have to do that. No, no, no. I can get upset. It's fine. But like, you know, any one animal, there's been so many. Is there any one experience? Yeah. There's been a lot of, yeah. I see, this is really funny because I do block it out. And that's why I'm a good activist because I've got a really good way of blocking out all the animals that I've watched go into slaughterhouses. There's been so many. Like the ones that affected me the most first was chickens because they're always so brutally treated and they're just thrown in the back of trucks. No, don't touch the vehicle. No, I won't. I won't, but can you not? I don't think she's breathing in. They're crushed and they're really infant in their faces and it's really, it really moves me a lot. But I suppose some of the most powerful things that I've witnessed have been bearing witness inside the slaughterhouses. Also in Bali, I first bore witness to a cow be killed Helao style and, you know, took her like probably 10 minutes to die. It was a lot of blood and it was very brutal and that there affected me a lot and still does. There's always one animal or multiple animals that affect you at every vigil and I think in order to be an effective activist on the front line, you have to put up a barrier so that you're not constantly tearing apart your emotions. It's traumatic work. When you're trying to talk to people about it. Have you ever had the opportunity to rescue an animal at a vigil? No. No? No. I've only ever rescued personally one animal and his name was Smalley. That's cute name. And he's a little chick. I was filming inside of the factory farm and Smalley was too small to run away from me. So he would have probably died in there anyway because he probably couldn't get to food and water. But yeah, so he picked him up and didn't put him back down. That's amazing. Is he live on Sancturino? He's always in good hands. Don't downplay forms of activism like this if you don't truly understand them. They're very powerful for a reason and I think that the more people that are at the front of these places, it shines light on the place that the industry wants to keep in the dark. It's very important that we're all there and just standing out there making a presence there. They know that we know what goes on there and we're not fooled by no humane slaughter nonsense. And we're not going to stop and we're going to continuously be out the front of these places and inside these farms until the system stops exploiting and killing these innocent animals. Really good talking to you brother. Good talking to you too. Thank you for everything you do. You too man.