 Okay. All right. Like to welcome everyone to the meeting of the Amherst Design Review Board. My name is Catherine Porter and chair of the Amherst Design Review Board. I'm calling this meeting to order pursuant to Governor Baker's March 12 2020 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law glc 30 a section 18. And the governor's March 15 2020 order imposing strict limitations on the number of people that may gather in one place. The public hearing of the town of Amherst Design Review Board is being conducted via remote participation. No in person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but the public can attend tonight's virtual meeting by using the zoom login information provided on the meeting agenda listed on the meeting calendar, which is provided on the town of Amherst website. We will begin with a roll call of the members of the design review board who have been impaneled for the consideration of the items on tonight's agenda. Board members, please say aye or yes to acknowledge your attendance for the record. Tom Long. Hi. Lindsey Schnarr. Yes. Janet Marquard. Hi. Erica Zecos also in attendance is Marine Pollock planner and staff liaison to the design review board. The design review board and its accompanying zoning regulations were created by the town meeting in October of 1983. The charge and purpose of the design review board under section 3.2 of the zoning bylaw is to preserve and enhance the town's cultural, economic and historical resources by providing for a detailed review of all changes in land use, the appearance of structures, and the appearance of sites which may affect these resources. The design review board exercises this responsibility by providing design review and recommendations to private applicants and permit granting boards. The design review board is also provided for town departments and permanent granting boards within specific overlay zoning districts in the town center. The design review overlay district and the town common design review overlay district. Design review was also provided for town departments and permit granting boards with respect to town projects anywhere and anywhere. The design review board is also provided for appearance of a structure or site. All design review board meetings are open to the public and are recorded by town staff. Each meeting recording will be uploaded to the town of Amherst YouTube channel for public viewing. The procedure is as follows. The petitioner presents the application to the board during the meeting after which the board will ask questions for the application. After the board has completed its questions, the board will deliberate. If the board feels it has enough information and time, it will decide upon recommendations for each respective application. Once the board has voted on its recommendations, the staff liaison will type up the recommendations for distribution to the applicant, board, and commissioner. Tonight's agenda is DRB FY 2021-17. And this is Antonia Diaz to review the proposed changes to the existing structure and changes in site design for outdoor dining with site furnishings and landscaping, which will affect exterior architectural appearance of a building or site. And this is located at 17 Kellogg Avenue, map 14A, parcel 64, general RG zoning district. So I think that's what we're going to do first. Then we'll have general public comment and other, any other business not anticipated. So should we, Marine invite our applicant in? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So if they get this person. Do we have. Hi. Oh, there you are. Okay. Good. So why don't you tell us what you're proposing. Hi everyone. My name is Jen. This is my husband, Antonio. We are hoping to open a Mexican restaurant at 17 Kellogg. Avenue on the first floor right behind the Unitarian church. I can go ahead and share my screen. Marine. Is that my first step? Okay. All right. So here is the property in itself. We are not making any structural changes to the building inside or out. It's a really beautiful space has this. So we're lucky to expand our ideas. Within what's already on the premise. So I am just going to show. First, what we are proposing for our awning. Currently it does sales. Shiro cafe with a pink flower. And we are going to replace. We're hoping to replace the awning with the similar black background and two agave plants. That represents our theme of agave and miscal, which is a traditional drink from Mexico. Our legal name and doing business as is Mexican. Taco bar. And here we have the address and the phone number. Underneath we have the colors of the Mexican flag. Just to read. Amplify our Mexican restaurant theme. And the other thing that we're going to be talking about. We're going to be talking about the Mexican restaurant theme. And the only other change that we would be making outside. Is replacing the other signage that already exists per. Shiro. With the same agave plant. Logo. Mexican taco bar with the three colors of the Mexican flag. So nothing else on the property would be changing. Just those two. Switches. And please interrupt if I'm going to faster. If you want to ask me a question. The only change that we would be doing for outdoor dining is. Adding a fence around our patio because right now. There is not one and we have applied and we're approved for a liquor license. So we would love to and have diners enjoy. On the patio. We have two spaces for patio. Right out here. And we have a two-story building. And we have a two-story building. We have a two-story building. And then four or five more tables. Over here. My proposed fence. Is on this side. It's three feet off of the ground. It actually hooks right. Nicely into what is already existing of planters. Which are holding some different vegetables. Right now we've planted some tomatoes. And then we've also planted some of the plants. And we've also planted some of the plants. Real. Thing we're going to do with the planters. So this would just be. Looking at it here. This right here is the planter. And then our fence would enclose our patio. Right there. Okay. On the other side of the other patio. It is already enclosed as you can see with planters. And then there is a. High trees. That includes our other patio. And you showed us a picture of the umbrellas. Were those. A specific. Or that just a proposed possible. Look. Yeah, let me. Try and zoom in a little bit better because they're a little bit small. But yeah, they are normal. Size. Red umbrellas. Red. Okay. Sorry. My mouse is. Let me just do it manually here. I teach middle school and we've been zooming all year. So I have, I have learned a few tricks, but right now my computer is kind of stuck on this image. Let me try and. Exit the share screen and do it one more time. Jen, if I have. I believe I have all these. Submissions. If you're having trouble, I could pull it up on my. I got it. You got it. Thank you. So yes, here you see what it would look like from the outside view right behind the church. And here's the side looking closer to the parking lot. And then the. The umbrellas with its base and then also the umbrellas would have. Would be illuminated. We're not, we originally thinking about maybe like string lights, but we thought it was better to have the light directly in the umbrella. So all is a lot clear towards the evening hours. And just to clarify, we would only be offering outdoor dining and the tables would only be outside within the warmer months. And all would be moved into our storage area, which is in our basement during the winter. Okay. Good. All right. Panel. Questions. Suggestions. I have a quick question to get us started. Jen, thanks for the presentation and congrats on the new restaurant. In your, in the packet that we were provided, which I believe is a slightly earlier version of what you're showing us. There were tables and chairs suggested. Have you chosen those? Only the chairs. Yes, we have the chairs. We originally did order the tables and they're out of stock and won't come in until September. So we're working on that right now, but we are trying to keep. Like a very inviting and family friendly environment. So the tables would be accessible to high chairs, accessible for any disability, but also. The colors would also go with our theme of the agave plants, like a very calm. Teal or blue. The chairs that were available are color gray. Okay. Other questions, comments. That's a quick question about the fence. How is that, is that permanently in the ground? Is it just unweighted? And it was hard to see from the picture. No, this is on the surface. Okay. Are there gates or. How is there one entrance into the restaurant in order to. Eat inside or outside, or can you come through a gate in the fence? No, there aren't gates within the fence. There wouldn't be an entrance on this corner here. Let me just move my picture box. Here is a walkway to where the awning is. And that would be the entrance to the patio. Okay. Jen, could you zoom out on the floor. Plan slash. And maybe walk the Z. The DRB members into. If you were to go to either, either of the outdoor dining areas, how would, how would that work? Do you have to go to the host stand inside is. So thank you. So for when we do offer outdoor dining, we're going to be using our, our, the, our, our, our hosts outside in this screening area underneath the. The purpose of that is just to make sure everyone is. Attended well and safe. And the other purpose is for seating. So when a guest comes to join us, they will come right here to where we have an outdoor post. They'll be greeted. all of the tables are or if we if they prefer to sit on this side it's very easily accessed. Well you have tables, it looks like they're square maybe four but will you have some bigger tables for family dining or put the tables together if there's a larger party? Yes yes absolutely so um we have two tables that have six seating and if we needed to accommodate we would be more than happy to do that for outdoor dining. Any comments about the awning that uh or the signage I should say in general? Before we jump to that I just had another question about the outdoor dining um so the planters I don't know if you showed any images or described what those will be what what those materials are. Thank you um they are in existence they were there when we came we are not modifying them at all um I mentioned that we had planted some vegetables we're gonna try and do our best with growing some tomatoes there if it permits um however it is made of um they're very similar to the the wooden boxes that Amherst uses however they don't have wheels they are um in the ground um and just to show you here they are what encloses all of this space yeah I don't have an actual physical picture of them. I I mainly just want to know a material they are so there's two it looks like there's two options for the fencing there's the option one that you're showing that's like a resin material um and then the option two is that a wood fencing um is that something that are you considering both options at this point? Um we were looking at both options I think the best is going to be this um later weight um because we cannot drill into the floor of the patio and I know that there are some code issues for um stabilizing the uh the fence so this is the I think the best um next move for us we were working um with Maria on looking at the options and I think that this is what we found would be the best option for us. Have you already purchased them? No okay I I do just think that aesthetically especially with the adjacent wood um planters they they just they read very heavy and a little you know both both heavy in terms of just a lot of bulk and material and um you know kind of plasticky so I I would be inclined to push that a little bit and advise to maybe consider some other fencing options I hear you about the base and wanting to make sure that they're safe and practical but the image at least the you know the kind of aesthetic that's shown on the bottom certainly reads a lot cleaner and um and I could imagine that over time you know I just think that that fencing really kind of detracts from the aesthetic of that patio space and and I'd like to hear other people's views on that but um you know if there is another option that's that's practical for you I might might suggest trying to find something that's a little bit lighter overall just in the in the look especially and and perhaps has more of a natural wood type of um or metal sort of material. Any other comments? I didn't have a problem go ahead. Oh I just wanted to point out I did I just pulled up google street and I can get an image I can show everyone the image of the wooden planters if folks want to see that. My comment is also regarding the planters and that is that because they're brown I'd love to see them be painted to be consistent with the color of the fence so that they're at least at least that border as it changes its material and its height has a consistent color. Yeah that was exactly my thought that that might make it look more cohesive with the fence that's there but you're saying uh Lindsay a lighter fence maybe not with the post not so close together. I think it's I think it's partly the resin material and the lattice combination it's just they're very bulky um and so I you know I think that absolutely if there's a simple way to kind of like bring the planters and the fencing together in terms of paint and color that'd be great but I think the fencing and I'm glad you brought this screenshot or this um street view up Maureen thank you because I was actually thinking that it's pretty hidden from view like where the fencing would be because it's kind of just around that one corner but it's actually against the parking right so it would be pretty visible um so you know I I don't think it's a deal breaker I just I think my suggestion as somebody who would walk by there and potentially you know hopefully go eat there I think that that fence just could be a little bit more refined. Is there a possibility of adding more of the same planters to have it all match? We did talk to Maria about that I think the ones that we have seen so far we would have to check how they would need to be attached to the ground um that would be my only concern um so it's as long as we wouldn't have to drill into the ground because of the existing gas or or any kind of pipe that's there um then we are absolutely open to exploring more options and especially if it's more cohesive and a little less disruptive if it flows and and and kind of closes the area and more of a united way it will seem more um it will flow better we agree. Well the the ones that are there probably aren't attached just the weight of the dirt and everything it probably just sets them on the ground I doubt that they're attached yeah. Oh okay awesome I will ask Maria about um options for that. I mean I'm going to press forward to accept about it. Yeah um one thought I hate to be a sort of put down fresh vegetables but um I think those planters because they really are an integral part of the whole presentation um I'm not sure tomato plants are really going to uh guarantee that they'll be attractive enough and so I'm suggesting maybe not tomatoes maybe herbs or maybe flowers uh because tomatoes can get sort of scaggy and that I don't think that's the look you want either. Absolutely. Yeah so that that's just the thought I mean but I like the idea of vegetables maybe more attractive vegetables so I don't know what others think about that but so where are we what are we uh Tom did you have something you want to weigh in on this? No no I'm okay with with the fencing I mean I know that there are probably other options out there and I do like the idea of the planters replacing that if that's something that's possible but you know that's an aesthetic choice and you know I would like to see them more integrated but it's also cost and so you have to evaluate how much that's you know a vinyl versus a natural wood metal would cost and I understand that's also one of your limiters so I think take that with that sense of consideration um and in terms of you know the awning which is really the kind of big change in that landscape I think that they you know they they're fine they fit right in with what's there now um there's nothing too offensive about them or um you know out of place so I don't want to make a concern okay can I ask why you went from the cream color to black um you had originally the creamier color and then you switched them to the black right? Yeah I think um I think for just for one call it one solid color we looked at a lot of different kind of combinations and we don't really have anything else that's cream so that was what we found to be the most cohesive. I don't have aesthetic concern with it I just know that black shows everything and like we've just been through almost to the end of pollen season here and stuff falling off of trees and I mean if you have a black car you notice it looks dirty immediately um and they may fade I don't know if they're going to be you know how they're going to do in the sun but the cream color it seems to me is more forgiving in terms of just looking neat and tidy all the time just that's kind of an observation that has nothing really to do with the aesthetics of the yeah right so. I like the black but you make a good point I think the black's very dramatic and it really pops there but um it's going to it's going to collect pollen and everything else yeah so um so that's I so I and that's respect I think you've sort of heard some thoughts on that but it's up to you as to you know how you proceed with your with your awning and so I I don't know if there's a consensus about the the fencing and the planters or is there agreement that we keep that the planters remain as they are but maybe be painted the same color as the fence is that was that one suggestion uh trying to that was a suggestion but it's kind of in a in a range of explorations I think what we need to do is decide whether we would approve the fence that is suggested right and then also suggest that the planter existing is is painted to match or if we would insist that a fence alternative be proposed right yeah whether that's a planter or another option right yeah well Tom agreed he's okay with the fence I personally am okay with the fence but we have others and so the rest of you could weigh in are you okay with particularly the black fence with the black awning when everything starts to change then that can uh maybe cause a bit more confusion but so what are you thinking Erica are you okay with the the fence are you you're proposing something now I'm I'm okay with the fence I mean I do agree with Lindsay that it looks a bit um heavy but I I don't want to hold this project up um and I think that it's it does not offend my sensibilities enough to okay it wanted delay okay jam fence um I I'm not crazy about the fence I'd rather see more of the same planters but if you do use the fence which you know that's up to you I wouldn't paint the wood because I think it will start looking worn and and tattered I think natural would where it's not natural it's already painted brown is it painted brown or is it just brown okay well in that case then maybe yes um but I don't I don't it doesn't really bother me that the fence is a different color from the planter um I'd rather not see it but you know that's fine you'd rather not see it painted is that what you're saying I'd rather not see the fence I'd rather see more matching planters but it costs prohibitive than yeah yeah okay all right Lindsay yeah I I definitely would would never insist that in order for this to be approved that you provide an alternative to the fencing it's just a consideration yeah and as everyone pointed out I mean it's there's many factors to be considered and um it's it's just a it's just a response that you can you know think about and um make decisions based on that and I would I would tend to agree that if you do go with that fence that I think that painting the planters to match makes sense yeah okay okay all right well I think now we've uh given our recommendations and what do folks uh I know Catherine had mentioned about maybe not tomato plants everybody else feels away yeah how do others feel about it but I feel like it's going to look really scaggy easily or they're going to break and then you're going to yeah but you could try it there's quite a bit of there's quite a bit of planter area so you know I think you could that doesn't have to be a permanent decision you can fill it out and see what works and what what looks nice and if you want tomato plants pruned um so that they don't get rambling um but still have fruit you know in the closer part of the plant they look okay it's when they start to spread too much yeah yeah well sure why not give it a try yeah I mean I think you can mix it up though right I mean I think if you had some mixed in some herbs and tomatoes and kind of different sections you'd have some green some other things yeah and so I think you know trust your gut in terms of you know what goes there but I think it'll enhance the experience if there is different sense and I mean it'll be a really beautiful um you know environment if you if you get that mixture right so it's a good message that you know fresh food right yeah right there and so it would be safe to say that the board would would encourage that there are uh vegetables, herbs, flowers, whatever it's going to be but it will be on a seasonal basis uh uh each year yeah that's right yeah so big deal if the plan doesn't work after it works then yeah just as long as it isn't allowed to get really sort of dried out and dead and messy looking because yeah that's what that's a bad image for our recipe so we will definitely make sure that that's an inviting and and fresh look good okay and our folks find um how do folks feel about the color of the tables and chairs tables would be uh like teal or green and the chairs would be gray and the umbrellas will be red with illumination underneath so so it'll there'll be like uh how would that how would that attach to the umbrella yeah they go right it goes right into the where it opens if this is the umbrella it's right at the top and it illuminates down over the table so it's just some kind of on a cell or a battery or are they're going to be yeah they're battery operated okay yeah I was going to say that got me worried about like oh no is this going to be like a fire hazard but it's battery that's great um and then I think that was it in the sign and awning do folks had any comments about that well I'm I was fine with it and I I think Jan made a Jan made a good point about black being somewhat of a a color that probably is going to attract everything but you just find out more off I think black looks yeah that's right okay my only I think it looks nice as well and I I really love the the Mexican flag color detail um it's just it's very minimal so I don't know if you're still in the design process at all if you're done with it then I would say it's great as it is if you're if you're so in discussion about it I think just adding a little bit more depth to that band might help especially in on the signage too might just help it to be a little more noticeable because I think it's a nice detail that just goes a little bit understated yeah yeah okay so what's the status of the awning is it already produced or could you add a bit more color yeah yeah we can add we can absolutely add Jen could you pull up the the sign design design so we can take a closer look at so this is in the exact location um where the sheer sign is and so we could definitely add an inch or so of color here um as Lindsay was suggesting so that um it's a little more recognizable yeah yeah what do you think the height is currently is that an inch I have no concept of dimensions right now um no I I think it's very small I don't think we have it officially measured out so the person that is helping us in design it we can ask for it to be a little more profound and wide so that it it if it was a foot then maybe two inches to three inches of the actual color of the Mexican flag and then the recipe the Mexicalito with the agave yeah those are probably four inch bricks so you can yeah I would say you know double doubling the depth that it is or thickness that it is now would be a place to start and it could be even maybe just a tad more so yeah I think that would be a nice yeah I agree yeah addition you go to the awning Jen yeah may not be quite as much room but the green does not stand out um but I don't know that's anything you can do about that but how do folks feel about if the depth of that band is widened or heightens however you would say that do folks feel that the depth of it could should be the same height for both of signs or does that matter does that not matter I don't think it matters this because this is a very different got some limitations on this uh the awning because it drops down with the phone numbers and everything so it's also a different ratio like the band it's you know this is probably photoshop but it's the band of the the vertical face is a little looks looks a little shorter than the the height of the sign so proportionately like the the colored band takes up more space but I would say you know again I would just I would be inclined to just look at what happens if you give it just a little bit more thickness um not so much that you're you know running out of room for the text but um it's just a nice detail so I think just even a little bit more might yeah I agree to good suggestion any other suggestions or questions about the signage or the planter's fence furniture but what is in the middle between those two windows on the brick is that some is that something you're planning to uh that is part of link in real estate um they had a sign here and then the mount below is like this left this left me something yeah that was pre-existent we're not planning on doing anything with it I can talk to the building owner to see if maybe we can place like our menu here um but we would we don't have specific plans for it at this time or a graphic or something I just think it's a it's a nice area to be able to consider or if you if you do end up with signage on the windows maybe it's nice to have the relief of nothing but um I think taking that away if nothing else the existing board signage that's there on the brick and then considering something that you know is more in line with your branding if possible are you doing any signage on the windows or the doors because that didn't come up in the discussion tonight no on the inside shoe cafe and one of their windows had a circular lamp that would light up like their logo um and we're hoping to add that it can be seen from the outside but it's not uh anything that goes on the window or on the outside of the building it's just something that you can see from the outside and it's the only thing that that is would be this agave plant um and that's kind of our our logo and that's going to be stamped onto our bags and and hopefully recognizable as our brand. I do see when Maureen pulled up the Google street view um Shiro cafe has a flag um up at the second story level on Kellogg Avenue that sorts this signage there it is and I was wondering if that's something that you are looking ahead to yeah we've taken it we've taken it down for now um I don't think we're planning on adding anything there okay so are you leaving the shrubbery in around the end of okay and then there'll be a sign I mean a fence within that shrub inside the shrubbery is that right or not no the shrubbery serves as a friend yeah okay all right well maybe I don't know whether legally you had to have a fence there so the fence won't start until the end of the planter or will it on the other side yeah the fence won't be on this side that we're looking at here the fence would be only on the other side that um encloses from the parking lot these shrubs have grown quite a bit since then and and they really it's very thick you can't see um or walk through so I think that yeah looks good I didn't know whether legally you had to have something I thought you had a tiny piece of fence at the end um from the sidewalk hitting towards the door just a little bit and I saw that on your application no could you pull that up yeah we can just verify yeah let me share the screen again I think it's a bench um oh okay but let me triple check that I have the right area that you're looking at so right here is just a bench for those who are waiting that would be at the hostess station and could you show the the the art I think there are varieties on the sidewalk at the edge of the sidewalk to Kellogg Street uh is that the shrubs that the really tall shrubs sorry I'm trying to manipulate again the center right here is that what you're saying okay all right good okay so is alcohol not being served at this section um or is this going to be fully enclosed um this this um was approved as okay fully enclosed for an alcohol purpose both on both sides all right that was my concern that all right okay any other uh comments suggestions if not um we have a motion to uh approve the site based on our recommendations marine does that seem like something would that be the most appropriate motion we can make sure um yeah with the with the suggestions which include you know uh and please correct me if I'm wrong plant plant I think everyone was in agreement to plant plant the sorry plant the planter boxes to match the fence uh mix in vegetables with herbs and flowers and kind of just be creative um and provide that um provide uh planting each year on a seasonal basis um the board's fine with the signs umbrellas tables and chairs add more depth of the um coloring um bands on the sign and awning and um the existing sign on the west side building beside um consider having imagery or or a menu um there okay okay very good last options we suggested for the fence to reconsider to consider other options right yeah okay I so moved our okay okay moved and seconded Tom seconded yeah very good okay I moved in seconded any uh further discussion if not uh let me just call the roll Lindsay yes Erica yes Tom yes Jan yes okay and you me and me okay all right there you go well good luck we'll we'll be anxious to come down and get a taco thanks so much yes it looks really well really well thought out so yeah thank you yeah you've done a nice job really we show up and mess so watch out I said we may show up and mess as a group we'd be happy to see you thanks so much for your time yeah but we pay for our own meal so you're welcome any time thank you thank you both good luck take care bye bye okay we have four minutes do you guys want to approve the minutes uh okay uh the minutes from what date were they I believe that was June 10th May 10th thank you sorry okay I'm ahead of myself are there any additions or corrections to the minutes from May 10th that you all can I already sent my edits in okay you included them so okay anybody else Tom uh Tom is not listed as present oh he was not that day that's right good catch sorry Tom yeah he wasn't present was he what well what was sorry now I'm getting all yeah he's comments from him I think yeah so I was there I didn't even notice that I wasn't listed you're right I'm like oh I said that we can't go out you didn't look at him carefully all right I'm adding that in right now sorry with that kind of stuff I'm I am just purely cutting and pasting from previous minutes so sorry you weren't at the previous meeting to that so sorry okay all right if there aren't we any other further suggestions or corrections if not do I approve the minutes from May 10th thank you Tom second all in favor Lindsey yes okay Erica yes Catherine yes okay I think Maureen this concludes everything on our agenda actually right well we do have the technically we do need to do the general public oh I'm sorry sorry due to the but let's see if due to the town charter so so if any member of the public wishes to speak about anything not on tonight's agenda you can either press the raise your hand button or press star nine okay no one no one's indicated all right then do I hear a motion to adjourn jam oh I move it again I move we adjourn all right Tom all right all in favor to adjourn say aye all right okay so when do we meet the next time Maureen let's see here it'll be June second which is next Thursday I can't recall if I sent you each a panelist link yet but I will tomorrow and with the agenda once I guess I need to remind I need to remember to post the agenda tomorrow and I'll send you all that with the zoom okay very good okay all right honey thank you with one minute to spare