 Good evening and welcome to episode 341 of the Private Property Podcast. I'm your host, Uzaman Dhomak. It's a Tuesday, it's a Wednesday edition. This week is flying by of the Private Property Podcast. If you join us for the first time, welcome to the family. We absolutely love making the property so bigger. You are tuned in to the leading property podcast in South Africa, helping you on your property needs. And of course, you can look forward to a lot of engaging informative content, not just here on the show, but of course across private properties, social media pages. And I'll be telling you a little bit more about some of the other great shows that you can look forward to every single weekdays at 8pm. And to all our regular viewers on Facebook and Instagram, as well as on YouTube, of course, welcome to it. You know how we do it every single weekday. You and I have an appointment where I'm always in conversation with a property expert who helps us to make better property decisions. And I think if anything, welcome the new members who are watching us for the first time. And do keep the love coming, especially on our Facebook page. I love seeing those green hearts. And of course, many of you getting the conversation going and keeping it on our Facebook page. And talking about our Facebook page, as you may know, of course, we're running an incredible competition on Facebook where we've set out a bolder goal of looking for 20,000 comments on the pinned post on our Facebook page. So do make sure that you go on and comment and you stand a chance of walking away with 500 grand cash every single evening. And all you have to do to stand a chance of walking away with the cash prize is to make sure that you watch us live. So if we call your name, you can claim the prize. Now, something happened yesterday. And I have to say it because this is one of those great things about, you know, random draws. The winner that we announced yesterday was Megan Matthews. And of course, they didn't claim that prize. I think the prize money yesterday was sitting at 2,000 rands. And it just so happens that Megan actually works at private property. And so of course, is not eligible to walk away with the cash prize. And I think if anything, it tells you that even, you know, private property employees, the family wants to participate and certainly engages with the content on social media, right? Because we're not just sharing it with you at home, but we ourselves also love the content and engage with it. So the random picker picked her name. And of course, the team saw that, no, this is not somebody who unfortunately is eligible to win. So this evening, the prize money is of course still in the money bag. I think the money bag is sitting at 2,500 rands. I'll see what my colleague Biola puts up on our screens shortly. So that's how we do it here on private property. Even our own love engaging us on our social media platforms to do make sure that you follow us across the board from your Twitter, Instagram, YouTube and TikTok and on LinkedIn. You can follow myself at Zaman Duma underscore K on Facebook and Twitter and Instagram as well. Now, talking about the great shows that you can tune into every single weekday at 8 p.m. As it is a Wednesday, you can catch Isti Klassen, who will bring you the first time home buyers show, where she's always in conversation with people who have not only walked that first time home buying journey, but have gone on to grow their property portfolios from strength to strength. And every Tuesdays and Thursdays, award-winning farmer Umbalunoko brings you the farming podcast on all things agriculture. And Mondays and Fridays, Chad, Texas through the home shopper show, they always goes through incredible properties that you can find on www.privateproperty.co.za. But those are the great shows that you can look forward to every single weekday at 8 p.m. So, to make sure that you set those appointments, set those alarms on your phones and tune in to the team later on this evening. Now, George, we're talking about something that I absolutely love. And I know it's such an uncomfortable conversation. I was even saying it to my guest of air that it really is one of those things that we need to be more open about, particularly now. I think many of us know that it's National Wills Week. We're talking a lot about estate planning, having a will in place, and the importance of making sure that we get our financial estate planning affairs in order. So, this evening, we're going to be looking at the importance of having a will as a homeowner. And I'm joined by Adolf Fanniger, who's the head of business development, virtual distribution at Apsa Insurance and financial advisors. Adolf, good evening, and thank you so much for joining us on the show. Zaman Tungla, thank you very much. What an awesome experience and a privilege. Thank you very much. It's so great to have you and especially talking about this issue, Adolf, because we, as we know, it's National Wills Week. A lot of law firms have opened their doors to be able to draft will, a lot of financial institutions as well, that you can draft your will, make sure that you have your estate planning in place. But before we even look at what goes into it and the importance of looking into it, let's first just look at why it's so essential to have a will and testament as a property owner. And whether it's even a requirement, because I think some people think, wait, am I legally supposed to have this thing, or was it something that I kind of choose? But why is it such an important thing to have in place? Zaman Tungla, first I'm going to answer it in short and then I'm going to elaborate. So it's not compulsory. The law doesn't say that you must have a will. Firstly, and secondly, it is always beneficial to have a will. And on that I will elaborate. The sad thing is that there's not a law that says that when you buy property, when you own property, you must have a will in place. And if you ask my personal opinion, that's something we have to seriously consider in the future. But anyway, this is my personal opinion. So if you look at Maslow's hierarchy, it says that there's certain stages in a person's life and there's certain priorities. And the base foundation of Maslow says a person wants security and a person wants to make sure that he's got a roof over his head. So if you think when you watch the certain programs on DSTV and they go and drop this person off, he's got a place that he needs to build a shelter. So he needs a note. And then he needs food and then he needs water. So in short, what happens is that the sad thing is what we've experienced in practical terms in APSA is as soon as a breadwinner passes away. And I'm going to use the example of a breadwinner because it's predominantly the breadwinner or a primary breadwinner that pays the bond to make sure his family or her family and her dependence is covered or does a place to stay. So as soon as the person passes away, there's few questions that the family starts to ask and they usually go to the place where the bond is situated. So if the bond is with APSA, they walk into the APSA branch and they say, listen, our dad passed away or our mother passed away. And we've got a few questions that we're concerned. So first, we don't know if there's we don't know if there's a will. And the second thing is the answer is we don't know if there was a will, what is stipulated in the will regarding the property. The third thing they want to know is if it was stipulated that there is a will in the property, who will receive, who will be the new owner of that property? When will we, how long will we stay, be able to stay in the property if we are not the owners of the property? And one of the most important questions that they usually ask is if there is a will in place, you know, and if we can still stay in the property and we are the heirs of that property, the beneficiaries, will, was there a bond in place? And if there is a bond in place, how will that bond be settled? And usually someone to like they walk in and that's the primary questions they ask, because they know very well that they don't want to, you know, if you just look at this in layman's terms, if there's a mom and a husband and his wife and his two children and the husband passed away and the husband paid the property, the mom doesn't want to disturb the kids. They want to have the security of we also always grew up in this property. It's a safe environment. And the sad thing is, if the will is not in place, especially if you've got the property, and especially you've got certain dependence of financial dependence, that's a type of questions that pops up. And what we've experienced in APSAs many times, if the will is in place, the relief of the pair of the people that stays in the property goes like, Oh, there is a will in place, where's the will? We can see on our system in APSAs that there is a will with us. Great. Can we have a copy of the will? Yes, you can have a copy of the will. And you can just see the relief of the people when they answer all those questions. And all those questions is for the benefit. And there's no more questions that they are relieved. And I know it's just a process that must go. So it's critical, in my opinion, to have a will when you have a property. And you know, Adolf, I think one of the things is you've actually just broken down some of the key considerations that a family would even have when we're talking about a will and what it mitigates for. Because in as much as we don't want to think about the unfortunate time when our loved ones pass away, especially because we think we've got time. Right. We're saying off air that one of the things that COVID has unfortunately meant for many people is there were so many deaths and so many back to back deaths. And sometimes even in the same family where we found that trying to wind up in a state or trying to make sense of what belongs to who or where things are, whether they're systems in place that speak to what should happen in the event that they pass away. We saw that a lot of that a lot of us are caught off guard because we simply do not have a will that speaks to what we want done with particularly our assets. And before we even look at some of the benefits, let's look at what goes into a will. Because I'm sure there are probably people who are like, okay, so what are some of the basics? Because I know one of the things that I've shared this on the show before. I'm a millennial. I started buying property at a very young age. And I think when I started buying property in my twenties, I was already advised, listen, you need to have a will in place. And there was a part of me that was like, oh my God, no, like, I've already done this adulting thing of buying no multiple, you know, back to back property. I don't want to do it. Well, I live for a while. I don't I don't really need to do that. And the realities we just don't know. Right. And I think there's a part of me that was slightly overwhelmed thinking, oh, I don't know what needs to be going into it. And so you kind of leave it and leave it and leave it. So what do we then look at? Well, what are some of the core things, the very basics that go into a will? Okay, so, so of course, the first basic will be to make sure that the test data and the test trick test data is clear. Full names are the number. Then of course, who must inherit what? And if we say who must inherit what, the more basic you keep the will, not to go into much complex detail, the better. Also, when we say it must be clear who must inherit what, you mustn't just say Peter Marsang, you must say Peter van der Berg, ID number, etc., etc., must inherit this. So you must be very specific. The next thing is who you must state in the will, who do you appoint as executor? And I will come to that later. The next one is who do you appoint as trustees, especially if there's minus involved? And if I say trustees, I will later get also to the fact that you want to mention the draft or the startup of a testamentary trust when you pass away, but who will be the trustees of that testamentary trust? The next one will be very important, who would you like to appoint guardians for your minus? And I always suggest that you at least state, I want to appoint this guardian for my children to be appointed guardian for my children. And if this guardian is not willing or alive at that stage, the second option is this person, so that there's no disputes. And let's be honest, it sometimes can become quite a dispute, who will be the guardians of the children? Then when you have now drafted the will, make sure it's just a recommendation, but make sure you sign the will in full on each page, not just a large page, sign the will in full on each page. The next one will be make clear that you make a statement that you revoke all previous wills. The next one will be is make sure you get two witnesses. So let's just quickly park on the two witnesses. The two witnesses must be present when you sign the will with you. They must not be in a place where you sign the will in, for example, in Johannesburg, you put it in a courier service, you send it to Cape Town and the witnesses are there. Then the challenge becomes is that the will can be a dispute and the validity of the will can become a challenge. All right, the next one will be is amendments. I want to interject before we move to the next spirit in terms of the basics. When you talk about the two witnesses, because I've seen this one happen in an event where the two witnesses, do they need to not be beneficiaries in order for the will to be valid? Because I think one of the things that we see a lot is that the two witnesses are often the beneficiary and you've bequeathed X amount and the other people that you've now given sort of a smaller portion are not there. When they want to then contest your will, they'll say, well, you were there, you could have coerced this person, especially, I'm thinking now about our elderly parents, they could easily say, no, both of you are there and we are all siblings. Why did mom and dad not give us equal share? Why do you get a bigger piece of the pie? Do the witnesses have to not be beneficiaries? Just to make sure that if they want to contest the will, that's not a premise that they use for contesting the will. Zaman Tungla, I said to you earlier in the program just before we started to say, you must become the specialist on this and I will become the presenter. But anyway, you've got the answer. The reality is yes. And there's a simple answer behind this. So as soon as there's a possibility of conflict of interest, it becomes a challenge. All right. So the short answer is do not, when the witness is signed as a witness, they cannot benefit from that estate. They cannot benefit from the estate. So otherwise, it will be a dispute. So just make it simple. So that's a big tip for many. So that I think, I think, you know, Adolf, that's actually a very big tip for our viewers at home, because I think with some, it gets done and not from even a malicious perspective, right? Because you're thinking if we're doing it at home, or let's say you accompanied your parent to wherever it was being done, and then they are suddenly, you know, a witness and they didn't think that, oh, actually, this would be an area of consultation. So to viewers at home, make sure that you don't sign as a witness if you know that you've been included in the world as one of the beneficiaries, just so your things don't get too hectic further down the line. Adolf, I can already tell you, you and I are going to run out of time, meaning that I need to bring you back. I can already, because I can see the questions are coming in. I have to go for a quick break. And we're still looking at some of the core important things in a will. I wanted to go for a quick break. I see your questions and comments on Facebook as well as on Instagram. We're going to get to them in a moment. I want us to see who the potential lucky winner this evening. I think the cash money standing at 2005 and grants. Let's see who is going to walk away with that cash. And this evening's potential lucky winner of the 2500 grants is Hashiso EL. Hashiso EL, that's the name on Facebook. So if you're watching us this evening, drop us a message down here below to claim that money. And many of you at home are watching and have been saying you absolutely want to be able to win some of this cash. So if you are watching us this evening, do drop us a text down here below. Some of you are watching on our Facebook page. I see you Tasmin Abdullah, as well as some of the people who are watching us this evening. I want to take some of the questions and comments that we've already gotten in. I'm already booking Adolf for next week when I have a part two, because I can see him and I going to run out of time. And so many of you are sending in really great questions. When it comes to this topic this evening, we're looking at the importance of having a will as a home owner. And of course, I'm in a conversation with Adolf Fanigat, who's the head of business development for virtual distribution and APSA insurance and financial advisors. A really great question coming through here. It's probably half jumping the gun, but I wanted to address it. It's coming through from our Instagram viewer, one of our Instagram viewers, O'Koma Grashalla, asking, does insurance settle outstanding bond payment of the deceased? And I like this question because we know that there'll be life insurance and then these insurance, I think we can just break that up a bit, especially because they use the word insurance. And I know that often when we say insurance, we mean the household content insurance as opposed to, for example, either bond cover or the life cover. Okay. So I'm going to try to be brief. So you've got short term insurance for your building and your house contents. And usually the short term insurance piece only pays out where you can claim when there's, for example, a fire damage, et cetera, or flooding damage. I think the insurance that the speaker that refers to is more at death. So if I'm correct, I'm on sunglasses, I'm going to focus on that part. So yes, you've got two types of life insurance. You must always understand that you get fully under the life insurance and you get credit life insurance. And always when a person goes to a bank or to an advisor and he starts discussing his financial needs analysis, which should, which is different topic on its own. The advisor that gives the advice or the person that that on boards, the customer to that product must make it clear if it's a credit life policy or a fully under it. The other thing that's important is it doesn't, it's not the bank's responsibility. And they cannot never force a person in my opinion to take out life insurance on a certain property. And this is my experience. We can always suggest or recommend that life insurance must be in place. But this is the, this is the catch. So let's say the bond is a million bucks and you take out life cover for the million and you pass away, you will maybe be able to settle the bond. But what you will not be able to settle is all the other fees that's related to winding up their state. And there can be possibility, capital gains tax. There's a possibility for estate. There's a possibility for conveyancing fees, et cetera, et cetera. The other thing that's important is now, now just picture this, the bond is settled. The rates and taxes keep on coming in. You must pay rates and taxes. You must pay water. You must pay electricity. You must pay food. You must pay medical bills, et cetera. So when a person engages with an advisor about life insurance, do not just focus to settle the bond. Also look at the other fees related to winding up their state and look at giving the, here's a lump sum that they can live off for, for living expenses wise. So it's absolutely critical to have life insurance in place. And then I didn't even touch on disability. Many people get a illness or they go through an accident. They still live with their family, but they cannot work. And now the bond repayment must still happen. So that's why you must look at a product called income protection and lump sum disability. And the difference quickly for between those two is that income protection makes sure that you get a living, that you get an income on a monthly basis to settle your living expenses. And maybe you want to still, you want to pay your bond installment. And the lump sum disability, if you do it in conjunction, the aim is that the lump sum but disability pays out, it settles the bond and the rest of the income protection pays for your living expenses. I don't know if that makes sense. It absolutely makes sense. Adolf, I'm going to go to more of the questions and comments from our viewers at home. Menzi Boutilles on Facebook saying, this topic is very close to my heart. It takes me back to when extended family fought for me, fought for what my cousin left me. And Seleni Pillay giving a tip there to a lot of the family members on Facebook saying, guys, you know what? Moving forward, we must not call or tag the winners because come to think about it. It's only fair if they join every night, just like you all do. It's not only about winning, it's about learning and being part of this awesome family. And I absolutely love that. So I see there's some people who tagged the winner. I know that there's some who know which others. So if you hear your friend's name, you tag them. But I like this one because we want to all be watching live. And of course, if you're watching, that you're able to claim in real time. So really love that from Seleni Pillay. And Nong Volam, it's a name saying congratulations for Khaliso. I know that the team hasn't let me know yet if they have indeed a claim. Oh, I see. My colleague has actually just said that the winner has in fact claimed. So congratulations there to Khaliso El, who is walking away with that $2,500 this evening. And this is of course, for that daily competition that we are running. And all you have to do at home to stand a chance of walking away with cash every single evening is to comment on the poster that we have placed on our Facebook page. It's a pinned post. And you also have to be watching live as you've heard from Seleni Pillay. And of course, you know, drop us a message if we call your name before the end of the show. And you'll be able to claim the prize of money. So that's simple. Every day it's 500 rounds. And of course, because Khaliso has a claim for the money, we are going back to 500 rounds tomorrow evening. So 500 rounds will be in the money bag and we'll see who will walk away with that cash prize tomorrow. But this evening, we are talking about all things at wills and testament, especially as a home owner. I'm in conversation with Adolf Fannigar, who's the head of business development for virtual distribution at Apps for Insurance and Financial Advisors. I'm already working him for next week. We're going to have a part two for this because there's quite a bit that him and I said we wanted to get through. And we haven't quite gotten through some of it. Adolf, you're still answering some of the key things that must be included in a will. And I think these are the things that we always need to bear in mind because sometimes somebody, you know, you watch the show and think, okay, I need to have a will in place. They'll want to start writing something and thinking that alone is sufficient. And then of course, people go and contest your will to want to make sure that we get the fundamentals right as much as possible. I think we were talking, we're just finished talking about the witnesses. So the big tip, of course, is make sure that you have two witnesses and none of those two witnesses should be beneficiaries in any way. And then of course, then Adolf, you're then going through what are some of the other key components that are in a will. Okay, so very important. If you did draw off the will, and like you want to make some amendments, you must always sign on the page where you made the amendments and the witness must sign with you. But my suggestion usually is when you want to make amendments, rather just draw off the will from sketch and revoke the previous one. So that there's not a dispute that that you that you draw through this line or this paragraph or, you know, you know, etc. So I usually when we speak to our customers and the customer says they want to make amendments, we just retrieve the existing will, we quickly draw off the will from scratch, we make the amendments, we send it to the customer, there's no, you know, scratching out. So just a very important point. Another one is make sure you destroy all your previous will stay even even if you revoke your previous will. There must not be a possibility or a chance that people can get a copy of the previous will because the sad thing is that when people get the original will in your, you know, in a safe place in your home, and they see that they are not the beneficiary, and they see this old will, they sometimes destroy the most recent one, and then there's no proof. So just make sure that you not just revoke the previous will that you destroy it. The other important thing is on your will, make it clear who will receive the residue of the estate. So for example, you say that this property goes to this person, and this car goes to this person, whatever is left in the estate, we call it residue, you must make clear who must receive the residue and how must it be divided up. And safe custody, remember that when, when a will is submitted and it goes to the masters or I call, they look for the original will, not the copy. So make sure the original will is in safe custody. And again, what's great with APSA trust, I mean, we ask the fee is 115 rand a year. So it's just just about 10 bucks a month that we ask to keep the safe custody. And if there's a dispute or if there's a request, you can always revert to the safe, you know, the original will in safe custody, but make sure your will is in safe custody. And lasting as I'm going to inform your family and friends where the will is, you know, where's it in safe custody. So for example, my, my parents know exactly where our will is my, me and my wife is married in commuted of property. I mean, we married now almost for 20 years, and that was the way then. But the bottom line is make sure that your parents and your friends know where your original was. So there's no need for the run around. That's just a few basic tips. You know, at all, we've run out of time. And, and, and I already said, there's still quite a bit that I want us to get through because this was almost the, this is the introductory bit that we need to be very clear about. And of course, we can, you know, skip through that. I mean, already one of the big things that I know many of us are seeing that listen, if we are going to be doing a well, as much as you may have that conversation with your family and perhaps you even drafting it as a family, don't have family members, then be witness because I think in a cordial household, you wouldn't think twice about it. But as we're saying, you know, those are loopholes for when somebody wants to then contest a well, I want us to, to wrap our conversation here this evening. We're going to bring you back next week. I'm already just hijacking you because we still need to be looking at of course, the, the, the ramifications when you're a homeowner, and when you're assigning, you know, what, what goes through and how one of the key things that you had even outlined for us earlier is that you want to make the will as basic as possible. I've seen some people, I mean, a friend of mine used to say when we're having this conversation that you also don't want to be, you know, ruling from the grave and be very pedantic about what gets done with, you know, each property. We know some people tend to do that with their wills and almost want to control their children while they've passed on. And I want us to, to address when we come back next week, you know, that issue of the insurance policies, because I know that we answered the quick question around it, but really then looking at the insurance policies when it comes to a will, because they sometimes let's say for example, even certain covers that you may take as an individual that in the event where you die, you'll be able to pay out, you know, to your beneficiaries is that something you should, that you should be including in a will that I've got X, you know, life covers, these are the amounts, you know, these are the beneficiaries, these are the percentages there, just so everything is in one place. And you don't have to, you know, struggle because I think one of the realities that we've also seen is sometimes people will only find two policies from their parents. And yet the parents actually had five policies. So when you have the will and everything is at least in one place, it makes things easier. So that's some of what I want us to look at, you know, next week when you come back because I'm already hijacking you. But before I let you go, you know, any final tips for our viewers at home who've watched this evening, and of course, are already anticipating us having you back next week when it comes to starting the conversation with family, because I think that's actually the tricky one, right? Whether you're a couple, and perhaps you don't have a will, we haven't, you know, you haven't done what you and I have done where everybody knows, your wife knows, this is how things are, your parents knows, how do we start approaching that conversation? It's wills week. So it's at the very least, at least out there, we're seeing it being covered in news. Where do we start that conversation with our family members when we want to now take that active step of putting a will in place? So it's just starting with a question. Let's be honest. It is a very sensitive topic. And I know in certain areas of life, you know, people think that when you start to talk about a will in life insurance, you know, people go like, you know, why are you talking like this? What are you planning? You know, are we, do you know something that we don't know? The reality is, there's two guarantees in life, is that we will unfortunately pass away at one stage and we will pay taxes. So the sooner you, you, you talk about this and remember the other thing is what I always, if I really love, if I really love my dependence in my head, that that lives with me in my house, I don't want them to run around and think because remember, as soon as, and I don't want to go into much detail, but we unfortunately lost our son, approximately five and a half years ago. And we went through the trauma of a burial and the funeral and all the plans. And remember that dust only settles approximately two, three weeks after this. But the person is that the family is still in trauma. And then they must now start with the financials. If the financials will, they start planning the financial needs analysis has been done and in place, they don't have to run around this piece of mind. And this is what I want to leave the view as well. No, at all, condolences to you and your wife and your family. I know losing a child, especially so difficult for, you know, for families, I think more often than not, parents often, you know, you grow old and your kids will be the ones who, who bury. So, you know, condolences to both of you. And thank you for sharing that with us at home. And it's so true. I think oftentimes, you know, death happens. And once people have left you and the family, you have to not deal with the reality of your grief. And then the added, you know, admin of having to sort out an estate. And I think it becomes, you know, particularly difficult when, as you were saying earlier in our conversation, when it's in a breadwinner, so it isn't even just about, you know, winding down an estate, but their, you know, financial implications, if it's not attended to, because they, you know, there's housing, sometimes they school fees and all sorts of other responsibilities that that loved one was taking care of. So I think next week, that's some of what we're going to be looking at, especially because we don't want to have to be dealing with the admin of, you know, processing a loved one's death, while we don't have things like a will in place, and you've communicated with somebody, because I think that's at least the one thing you can be rest assured that if, you know, when I pass away, my family doesn't have to think about that, right? They'll, they'll go to the lawyers, they'll go to the bank, but for the most part, all of that has now been catered for. Adolf, I'm going to leave it here this evening. I'm already, you know, hijacked you for next week, because we certainly need a pop to for the rest of our conversation when it comes to this one. And I want to find out from you at home, you know, if, if firstly, if you have a will in place, if you don't, why do you not have a will in place? I want to find out from you. We're going to have part two of this conversation next week. So do watch out for that. Adolf, it was such a pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you so much for joining us. Thanks. I'm going to go on to the viewers. Good night. Enjoy. And that is Adolf, and that is Adolf Fanikerk, who is the head of business development at virtual distribution at Apsa Insurance and financial advisors wrapping up the Wednesday edition of the private property podcast with myself, Uzaman Dunwa, Kumalum. I'll be off. We're having a continuation of this conversation at part two next week. I've already hijacked Adolf very gracefully. And of course, do you keep those comments coming down here below? Do you have a will in place? If you don't, why don't you? And have you already started talking to your family about, you know, the importance of having a will? Do they know where your will is? I think some of what we've already been discussing with Adolf, I want to find out from you at home. Let's keep that conversation going on our Facebook page. Well, I'm off. You could, of course, look forward to the first time home buys show with S.T. Klassen at 8pm. I'll be back on your screens on Friday. Of course, tomorrow it's that property law and development lecture that I'm attending. So on Friday, I'll be back on your screens at 7pm. But of course, do join in tomorrow at 7pm. Until then, hoping you're staying home and staying safe.