 Welcome to what the F is going on in Latin America and the Caribbean code pinks weekly YouTube program of hot news out of the region in partnership with common frontiers the council on hemispheric affairs friends of Latin America Massachusetts peace action and task force on the Americas we broadcast weekly on code pinks YouTube live You can also find us on Apple podcast spotify Telegram and now at radindymedia.com Today's episode Argentina's vice president faces a quote-unquote media judicial firing squad Our guest is Bronco metaza. He's the director general of foreign affairs of the Argentine National Senate Bronco has been with us before so so many of you will recognize him and appreciate His voice and his comments today. I want to give you a A little introduction or actually a quite Impressive introduction to Bronco before we start So he is a political activist in Argentina. He's involved in the Verona's Kishnorista movement of Lacombe come for a Thank you. Sorry He has a degree in government and international relations. He did his degree thesis on the mercos sur parliament He has held different positions related to international relations and the general secretary of argentina presidency chamber of representatives and the national bank of argentina He participated in several g20 summits leading the youth delegation from his country mexico 2012 russia 2013 australia 2014 he is currently pursuing a phd in defense. So so we have a really Impressive guest today and a great friend from argentina joining us We want to talk about this week and we're so thankful that bronco has been able to make time for this conversation today I asked him to join us to talk about this media and judicial firing squad that is persecuting the vice president of argentina and in that regard let me just give a brief background and then i'm going to ask um bronco to join us and um Give us his comments as he is on the ground in Buenos Aires So here's a bit of background for all of you on august 22nd an argentine federal prosecutor requested a 12 year prison sentence for christina Fernandes de Kirchner the country's former president and current vice president on corruption charges related to public works He also requested a lifetime ban on Fernandes from holding public office Prosecutor Diego Luciani accused from nandes de Kirchner of defrauding the state An involvement in the scheme to divert public funds while president between 2007 and 2015 The sentence will be known in months according to local media Although the vice president could appeal to a higher court which could take years to reach a final verdict on twitter The vice president retestified Who testified in court in 2019 said she was facing a media judicial firing squad and not a constitutional court The former president added that she was not given an opportunity to testify on new elements of the case And would present her defense on social media this week, which i believe uh was tuesday and i can post that for all of you uh to review Argentina president alberta from nandes commented The decision on twitter describing the decision in a statement as a case of judicial persecution Quote unquote none of the acts attributed to the former president have been proven he said So let's talk about this franco because uh It seems to many of us uh myself included and many in the audience that we've seen this scenario before multiple times throughout latin america As as social democrat to revolutionary left governments tend to rise and take over There are what we have come to call uh soft coups legislative coups judicial coups uh economic coups and i think to a lot of us that It appears to be what is potentially happening to your vice president at this moment Yes. Hi terry so glad to to be here again And thanks for for the invitation. It's very important for us here in argentina that our voice can be here overseas and all over the world because It feels extremely unfair what we are experiencing And as you said, it's not new It's uh thing we have already seen in the region It's what we call Lofer It's a war against popular leaders Which sometimes are called populist To to love the the price and the prestige of them, but they are Not anything but popular leaders and When we say popular We are talking about The whole people not the rich ones not the rich ones precisely That have voted them because we are talking here of democracy. We are not talking here Of uh, some kind of god or goddess. They are just people like you Like me like the ones that are hearing us That have been involved in politics have become leaders National leaders of their countries Have been voted to to to be president Or vice president in this case and had made things Fair for the poorest one for the most For for getting for for the ones that have been always been forgotten and that's what We call popular leaders and what sometimes they call populists to lower the price Let me tell you Who is christina kitchener You currently said that she's our actual vice vice president She's the former president. She was twice president the first Time she has been president is it was in 20 27 2007 She won that election with 45 percent, I guess here in argentina. You need to get at least 45 percent to become president in In in first round not going to ballot dash She got 46 47 something like that. So she was president after he was president is the first round There was no need to go around that's significant. Yeah, okay. No, no need the first. Yeah, that's significant four years later four years later after four four years of Being president She won she went to election again and she won with five 54 percent And the second one the the the second candidate only had 12 or 13 More than 40 percent of difference between her and the second So that's the way christina kichner Get uh become president twice and now vice president and what this uh What says this prosecutor you mentioned him luciani prosecutor That all her government was um, what we call an association illicit Association illicit uh like illicit group the the groups that that come together to I don't know kill people Still Kidnap people etc etc So the first thing here is how come A government voted For this percentage percentage. I gave you Being an illicit group How come Why would the majority of the population vote for such a government when that's exactly the the the candidacy That she represented was to get rid of all of that and that horrific that horrific history That that argentina has had yeah I mean if any to me if any country, you know, well not Argentina among several in in latin america those of you that have had very harsh military Dictatorships you have a history and an intimate personal knowledge with that With that form of governance Yes, why would you really like that for yourself? crazy It's super interesting what you're saying because we have the the the history of dictatorship Here in argentina was extremely cruel 30,000 people disappeared died and etc And one of the things that christina kichner and and and nester kichner also government steve was to take the dictator The dictator ones, uh, not only the heads also all the the people that participated in that dictatorship in that military dictatorship Take them to justice and I have a good A good procedure a normal justice procedure with all the warranties but they They are in jail now Most of them have died because they are old but they they went to jail because of the crimes they committed And that's the thing they were they will never forget forgive christina christina kichner and Luciani prosecutor and all and another Judges that are working in the same cause are Familiar of those dictator ones So that's a key issue to take in account Yes so so this is Revenge Yeah, of course it's revenge. Revenge. Yeah, I mean it's like yeah like like I dare I say like you know mafia revenge that that typo you know It's mafia revenge You know the thing that uh when we were introducing the episode in the uh The thing that really Leaps out to me from the prosecutor is that He is proposing that the vice president not be able to run for office ever again This is what they did to rapio correa in Ecuador Same I would argue the same people that you know the same the same Economic class of people global economic class of people say it's the same tool pretty much yes It's what we call prescription And it's the same that they did to Perron 70 years ago prescription Christina Kishner is the most important leader political leader Nowadays in Argentina. She's the only one that If she goes to election again, she's going to to win probably because she has a lot of votes So they don't want her Because next year we have elections again So they don't want her to become candidate because they know she's gonna win. So since They cannot beat her in Free elections they need to proscript her That's the the The objective the the aim this This uh loafer has So I get I I am I apologize to you and to the audience I didn't realize there are presidential elections in Argentina next year I mean Why is this happening now? Well, of course I mean, I do know, you know, you have legislative Legislative elections when november of last year, correct november 21st of 2021 October, okay Yeah, I was but of course And when are the when when are the elections next year? Is there a date set? Yes, we have the primary elections in agos and October we have the the general the general one Okay, so you're away. That's like exactly almost exactly a year away. It's august of 2022 and this is all happening in advance What did say christina the other day? because You know terry that they didn't let her Proceeding in her defense She asked to have an opportunity to defend herself But she was forbidden of that she was banned of that. So she made this youtube one hour and a half A speech Where it was super interesting And what did she say there? And I think it's key to understand It's not something against her. It's not Prosecutors and the justices do not like christina Personally do not like christina. It has to do To make to to to insert fear in all of the political class in all of the political activists political leaders The youth the youth In order to do not mess With big power do not mess with imf. Do not mess with corporation. Do not mess with Dictatorship do not mess with that because this is the end. So it's not personally against christina is Against argentinian people. That's how we understand it So it's like so to discredit her to Lawfare her out of office and especially to Perhaps prohibit her from ever running for office again. This is I mean, I I agree with you It's a suppression of the people and what they want What you as as as argentine citizens want for yourselves and your and your country and it's particularly telling that That it's too Not to disrupt the imf not to disrupt you say corporations, but probably we're probably speaking about transnational corporations transnational capital In the country. No, I don't so I don't so the the the the national ones. We also have The internal enemy. Yeah, yeah Yeah, the rich ones different from from the united states where Maybe industrials are the big ones the richest ones Here in argentina the richest ones are the ones who found the the land the the rural land Those are our richest And that and that's been a Land structure. I mean I I I would argue for 500 years It's the structure throughout latin america. Well in north america too And it's a it's a it's a structure that That in columbia, maybe they've gotten rid of this month Yes, right. They're like 200 years of of santan berizmo, you know, not just oribismo, but that but that oligarchic class That has been run, you know out of bogota for 200 plus years So this is the same sort of thing that that uh, your vice president is up against In argentina it's just Maybe cloaked a little differently and columbia has been extraordinarily violent But and your history has been violent too, but not so much in recent years, but it's um It's the same it's this she's up against the same sort of structure the same exact structure We have a common history here in latin america and that's uh, why we Pursue the the regional integration We think that the world Is becoming to move in blocks You have a european union african union in the pacific in the pacific union. Well china, russia, united states are blocks themselves because of their um, and latin america Needs to urgently integrate become homogene block And this is something that we actually Had a conversation about this a while back some of our audience may remember if we did it franco did a fantastic episode with us talking about argentina becoming the new president of selach and and movement towards bricks and It's positioned on the oas and so this is yet another This situation with your vice president with christina is yet another example of why That evolution is needed This is one more prime example of why there needs to be Which is a regional integration and and the you know, latin america and the caribbean really Truly are moving that way I particularly since the uh, the elections in bolivia october of 2020 and we had just a whole series of elections Through latin america and the caribbean including columbia, you know earlier this month and and now and now your your country next year world brazil in october and then and in your country next year So i mean that the evolution is so clearly I I I hesitate to even say that it's taking place. I would say it has taken place and is now You know growing but but the evolution has already urged, you know, and and really for so many of us we saw that i would argue really with the re um The re-initiation of selach last september after a four-year pause The re-initiation of selach of the the summit In mexico city september of of 2021 that there's that was such a bold and overt statement of what latin america wants And also anduras Yeah Yeah, yes Honduras, honey, you know That was such a huge. Oh, you know well, it's just uh You know immediately with honduras and I know our audience knows this too Because we were some of us with code pink were there on the ground for the honduran elections and also for the inauguration And the one thing that happened on inauguration day in honduras. This was january at 27th of this year The first thing that chiomara castro did first of all, she's the first woman president uh of honduras the first The first foreign policy decision that she made was to recognize the madrugal government in venezuela And we opened the venezuela embassy and take the sake of that. That was all done very quietly But that was huge And so that's the type of recognition and integration That we're watching unfold across the americas with the exception of north america I would add well, we can't exactly include mexico us and canadae have to be more specific There and i'm not you know willing to integrate But this regional integration is huge and I and I think it's it's also a statement of embracing global multilateralism We hemispheric multilateralism, but really global multilateralism and and pushing aside us unilateralism Yes, and and and i'm getting back to to to to christina issue I don't know if you could see how all the leaders not only presidents all the leaders all across latin america have made twitter's or communiques backing up christina christina kichner and and and and defending her that was a super Emotional Yes, yeah Yeah from from from from president lopez orador in mexico to well almost Every every country. I didn't know body. I guess body did not Say anything about it by all the rest of the leaders in latin america did Well the the We all when the leadership particularly recognizes the you know the scenario that's playing out as we said earlier It's familiar. We've seen it before in multiple countries with multiple presidents and Let's hope it doesn't succeed I don't see how it will. I mean just listening to you know, you talk I don't see how it's it's possible because it's just it's so Oh It's so obvious I mean It's just so obvious and not just and not just to those of you in argentina But throughout the hemisphere. It's so it's so obvious At what the at what the game plan? Yeah, so what the objective yes They they they won't do it. They cannot do it. We are all Movied mobilized and we are a permanently since this happened. They are 24 seven People mostly youth but also the older ones in in the In the front door of christina kisner apartment It's a i'm gonna cut with you and i'm going running to Okay We are singing We are singing we are all together and it's the other day. I was talking to uh A person I cross there and and we said it's uh strange because We we should be angry. We should be sad. We should be worried But we are happy. We are like Proud of us of care of what we are doing as mobilized people and and and and what we feel for our country and We are going to do whatever is necessary to protect her because protecting her We are protecting us and the future of our country. Yes, exactly. I think that that's To me ronko, that's probably you know the sound bite From the episode in protecting her you are protecting yourselves and your country is so true and that's where That's really again as we talked about before we Went live the importance and we did a whole episode on this theme last night The importance of having Movements around a party and candidates is because you know, it has to you you You work so hard to organize on the ground across the country and to get Your voices represented in government, but then once you have achieved that that representation in government That person that party that you've elected needs Continual support from the ground up as well. I mean it works both ways right top down and bottom up that you're both complimenting each other's agendas Yes, that's our that's the thing that we we really have worked it here And it has to do with our history of peronism peronism was Structure around popular organization political organization organization is the key to understand peronism in argentina and and Kitchener is and which a lot of people said that is the peronism of 21st century Has the same route has the same organization political practice Well, it's it's phenomenal and We are all you know in solidarity with you your people your nation your vice president and We will do what we need to you know to keep the word out there to keep this story You know highlighted. Is there anything that you would like those of us in north america to do? What can we do? I think it's your country for this this moment of you know threat. I think we We need to be to talk more about real corruption because Corruption, which is very very hard to To argue to talk about because it's not comfortable to talk about corruption, but that's what The fact powers the the concentrated powers have used because they very clever In a very clever way. They found that talking about corruption and and and and trying to link corruption with popular leaders was easy and and people even the ones that that are Being protected for those leaders Tend to believe and tend to repeat. So I think it's important to to say this that The use of corruption to To link popular leaders with bad things is What we all need to deconstruct Well, it's not going to be successful this time Theory so nice talking to you and please promise me you're going to come I I will be there. I I will be there I'm so thankful for the invitation and I will definitely Make plans to to see you perfect Under country and your people so so we'll let you go to To your vice president's home and stand in solidarity with her and your nation and and all all your citizens I'm so thankful for your time today. This is such an important story and we will be sure to share it far and wide And let me just remind our audience that you have been listening to what the app is going on In latin america and the caribbean code pinks weekly youtube program of hot news out of the region We broadcast every week on code pink youtube live You can also now find us on apple podcast spotify telegram and rad indy media And please be sure to catch code pink radio every thursday morning 11 a.m. Eastern on wba New york city wpf w washington dc that program is also rebroadcast on apple Podcast and spotify as well. So bronco will get your story out in many many media sources And continue. Thanks a lot. You and your country. So thanks a lot. Yeah, that's Oh, thank you for your time today and uh, and please Give our solidarity greetings to to christina kershner for us i would ciao