 Moses was buried on Mount Nebo in Moab and no one knows his burial place to this very day. It's the ultimate statement of Moses not seeking the limelight, not creating a monument to his legacy. The humility is there even in death. There is no place you can go to visit Moses grave. So I wanna leave plenty of time for questions to the dialogue, that's what I'm really looking forward to. Together with my new friend Imam Sudiada, I'll conclude by pointing out how our respective traditions both emphasize the virtue of humility. Maybe that was so we would be able to talk to one another because humility is the prerequisite to being able to hear another person. So, salam alaikum, shalom alaikum. It's all yours, you got the good one. Thank you, thank you, thank you. In bismillah, wassalam, ala Rasulullah. So I mean, what else can we say to Rabbi, he covered so much of it about Moses. And I think that coming up as a young, Muslim with half my family or more than half probably wasn't Muslim. So I would go to church when I would go to my grandmother's house and things like that. And one of the things that I learned as I got older was the message of the Holy Quran was definitely aimed at people who were familiar with the Torah and familiar with the gospel. And I think that we, even when we see the translations because so many of the translations of the Holy Quran, they weren't translated by people who really knew about, they was translated by Muslims. So, and I said this before, the brother, he said he saw me in San Jose, I'm like, I heard this already. But it's like the first chapter, or the second chapter of the Holy Quran or the bakrah, this is a story taken straight from the Hebrew Bible. Right? So this is God's way of sending down something that people will be familiar with when they heard it, not necessarily the Arabs. The Arabs didn't know anything about the sacrifice of the cow and the cow being a perfect hue. They wouldn't have known anything about that, but the Israelites who lived there, they would have known this story. And then we have Sultama'ita, which is about the Last Supper. But when it's translated, it's usually just translated to table spread. So, but if people from the United States knew that there was a chapter in the Holy Quran named the Last Supper, it would peak their interests. It's like a marketing technique, right? You're like, what they know about the Last Supper? You know what I'm saying? And then my favorite one, because I've been to the San Joaquin, does anybody know who San Joaquin is? Yes. Oh yeah, no, San Joaquin Valley, but the actual figure, San Joaquin, in the Holy Quran is named Emoron. And Emoron is the grandfather of Jesus Christ, right? So we have, you know, when you translated the family of Emoron, people are like, okay, who's Emoron? But if you translated the family of Joaquin, people would be like, okay, I heard of San Joaquin before, even if they just knew it was a place. You know what I'm saying? And of all of these kind of connections, the most connected figure in the Holy Quran is Moses, alayhi salatu wa salam. He's mentioned more times than any other figure in the Holy Quran. And so like when the rabbi was saying things like the speech impediment, you know, we know this in the Holy Quran when he sent the pharaoh, he says that he can't make his speech clear, almost exactly like the rabbi quoted from the Bible. So the Arabs of Arabia, they wouldn't have been familiar with these stories at all because they didn't have that kind of background. But going forward into the future, you know, the world is becoming more world, you know, where Christianity, Judaism and Islam make up a large portion of the earth, you know what I'm saying? And so we can see the importance of Moses by how many times he's mentioned. What he's, there's one story. So in Medina, there were three Jewish tribes and these Jewish tribes were, I think they call them Karaite, was the type of Jews that they were, non rabbinical, which is almost like, yeah. Like so they lived in Medina and when the prophet brought his message, the Qur'an said people to them to say, give me things that we could ask to find out, if he's telling the truth, because he should know, if he's saying he's sent from God, he should know these stories that you guys have. And so they told them, ask them about Joseph, right? They told them, ask them about the companions of the cave. They told them, ask them about the companion of Moses. And this story in social calf about Moses and his companion that he met with the two rivers meet, this makes up for almost the fundamental background of Islamic spirituality. Right, whenever you hear people talk about Islamic spirituality, they borrow a lot of the themes from this story because it talked about where the two rivers meet is the river of the law and the river of spiritualism. You know what I'm saying? Like, you can't be too legalistic and get through life and you can't be all spiritual with no boundaries and get, I mean, you can, but I'm saying like, it's best to try to have a balance. So when Moses who was a figure that brought the law, he met another figure who didn't follow the laws at all. Moses was confused by everything he did to finally Moses was like, look, if I ask you one more question, just let's just part ways. Because that means I'm stumped by your stuff. Now I'm saying, and so that whole story of Musa and Kither became the background for Islamic spirituality or to some people call it the soul wolf. And it's about how to understand that every question can be answered spiritually and every question can be answered legally, but you got to have a good balance. So like the rabbi, I didn't want to, I wanted to have more of a dialogue with everybody and I didn't want to just talk and plus, I'm thirsty, I'm fasting, so I'm willing to turn it over for questions and answers also. I'm here to chat. So who has something that you would like to ask? So I guess I'm just curious about what some other similar traditions and customs both faiths have, particularly during these holy months. I watched your talk. I got it. I got a second. I watched Imam Sudiada's talk when he was previously here. This is great, there's a moment where he says, when I go into the supermarket and I see guys looking at the ingredients, you know that they're Muslim and I go, well, they might be Jews, they might be looking to see if it's kosher. The truth is, a lot of times we can eat one another's food, which is, I mean, this is not theological. This is about practice. Deep buried behind the practice is a similar theology, I think. But there is one very clear area of similarity. Maybe in terms of values, I would say more importantly than our practice of halal food or kosher food, our values like in Judaism, tzidakah is righteousness, but it's in the form of giving charity. The meaning is righteousness, but it's in the form of giving charity. But this is, I think, identical to, is it zakah? You say tzidakah? I say tzidakah in Hebrew. You say tzadakah. Tzadakah, okay. So, right, I mean, it's really a core value that you're supposed to practice on. This is intrinsic to the practice of Judaism and Islam and I think that clearly we're rooted in a very similar set of values. I think one of the important, similar things is we both fast one day of the year, we call it, at first it's an optional fast, but it used to be, before Ramadan, it used to be the fast of the Muslims and it's yom ashura and that is actually yom kippur. And so when the Prophet said something, he saw that the Jews in Medina, when they migrated to Medina, they came in contact with those same three Jewish tribes, he saw them fast in his day, even though they had already been fastened in Mecca, he asked, why are they fastened in Medina? And they said, it's the day that the Moses and his people were freed from the Pharaoh. And I'm not exactly sure if that's the meaning of yom kippur, but. It isn't in Jewish tradition, but it's interesting it's linked up that way in Quran. Yeah, or this is just a hadith, this is a hadith. Yeah, so, and then he just told the Muslims to fast it. And so still to this day, on the 10th day of Muharram, we fast yom yom ashura and we link it with being the day that Moses and his people were freed from the Bani Israel or from the Egyptians. This is really interesting, I'm learning a lot here, because yom kippur is also on the 10th day of the Hebrew calendar, of the month on the Hebrew calendar. There's another similarity, which is, okay, if you're Muslim, do continually find yourself explaining to people why your holidays or occur at different times of the year. And somebody will say to you, oh, Ramadan is late this year. And you'll say, no it isn't, it's right on time, right? So we have the same issue, why is that? That's because we both follow lunar calendars for our months. And those who are not Jewish or not Muslim do not follow lunar calendars. Their months have nothing to do with the moon, but ours do. The one difference in our calendar is that we have a correction built in for the solar year. So it's a lunar solar calendar, it's not a strictly lunar calendar. And as a consequence, our calendar rotates back and forth relative to the Gregorian calendar by a span of about four weeks. It just slides back and forth that the correction is achieved by inserting an extra month every two or three years, unlike the Muslim calendar, which is strictly lunar calendar, right? Yeah, so actually the Kur-Aids, the tribe of the prophet, they actually try to insert an extra month during the prophet's lifetime. And it was revealed in the Holy Quran that the number of months with God is 12. And so they took that 13 month out. So it was the same thing, the Kur-Aids did it so that the hot season would never be in the summer months. They wanted the hot, the pilgrimage season to kind of rotate, but never getting the really hot months. So they created a 13th month that was, like you said, just make it kind of a correction. And I think that the Chinese new year, the lunar new year might be similar. I think they might have added a 13th month, too. When you're once a year you do. Yeah, as-salamu alaikum. I know in Islam, a person can declare the Shahada and reward back to Islam or become a Muslim. Is the same practice allowed in Jewish religion? Do you want to talk about Shahada first and the specific question? Because I'd like to be informed better about this. Yeah, so basically the brother is saying that if somebody's born and they're not Muslim and they want to convert to Islam, the way that's achieved is that they would just announce or proclaim the testimony of faith that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is the messenger. Once that's done, the person, he's converted or some say reverted to the religion of Islam. And so he's saying in the Jewish tradition, is there a system where people can convert or revert to Judaism? Really, if you were born and your question is if you were born Jewish and you went away, is that correct? Oh, it's really about conversion. Yeah, ah, yes, the answer is yes. And here I think that this is a somewhat similar understanding. The person who wants to be Jewish can become Jewish. It is not as easy as reciting the Shahada, not as easy, which I presume actually to call that easy would not be fair. It wouldn't be respectful. Nobody's going to do that without understanding what they're getting into, right? Hopefully. You know, they're gonna, you know, they have to appreciate what they're committing themselves to. So Jewish tradition is a ritual for conversion. And I won't go through all the steps. I'll simply say among them is immersion in a pure body of water, but for most of us, for most rabbis, we only, we have to officiate at the conversion. A person doesn't do it themselves. It has to be under the authority of a rabbi who on behalf of the Jewish community says, and will convene a court, so to speak, of three rabbis before whom a convert can say, I wish to be Jewish and immerse themselves in water and then they have to make a public declaration of their faith. In that sense, there is a similarity because there is a public aspect to it. But a person who's not Jewish can become Jewish. A person who is born to Jewish parents, however, is automatically Jewish, so they don't have to do anything. They're considered Jewish if they were born to Jewish parents. Most of us would expect a person who wants to convert to study Judaism for an extended period of time before their conversion. We would not take somebody who simply walks in the door and says, I wanna convert. We want to ensure the integrity of their choice and that it's not for any ulterior purpose, but solely an expression of their faith and their desire to attach themselves to the Jewish people. So I'll just say this, we do, it is recommended when somebody takes a holiday that they bathe also. So that's, that's an, and then, you know, I say that, I think that a lot, just being around a lot, long time, a lot of our conversions have to do with marriage. We'd be like, when's the wedding? No, I'm sorry. Yes, I take this. Salam alaikum everyone and Habir Ramadan. Thank you so much for a brilliant speech. I really appreciate that. So my question is from Sarah Ruby that like in Bible, I know that there was mentioned about Prophet Muhammad as Ahmed and they have some like a sort of definition about him. Like who is he or like who is coming as a last prophet? So what's your opinion? Like, is there any verse in the Torah that mentioned about last prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him? If you could give us some of the examples, maybe? Or yeah, thank you. I mean, I think that Brother Ali Atayee, if you guys know him, if you guys just Google anything he does about Muhammad in the Bible, he does a lot of excellent stuff. I think that any verse or, you know, any source material that you have, the interpreter of that material is gonna come away with different things. You know what I'm saying? So definitely a lot of the things that are in the Bible that when I read it, I say, oh, this is talking about the Prophet Muhammad. Somebody else is gonna read it and says like, that's talking about Jesus. And somebody else would really say, oh, well that's talking about Elijah. You know what I'm saying? So it's really the interpreter is gonna read and that's even what any of the religion is about the sources, but it's also about how it's interpreted. So like, that's why we don't tell people just open up a hadith book or open up the Holy Quran and just start pilling things out. You wanna go with the interpretation of the scholars to live before us and even present day scholars or well-versed and just, you know, when we read it on our own, it's more just an act of worship than trying to get legislation from it. But I would say one thing I'll say about the verse is that sometimes, so in the verse, it says that Jesus came and he told about, he said that he has the tour which he's a proof for and he's come to tell about a prophet to come after him. And he says ismuhu Ahmed, which means two things in the Arabic language. Ismuhu Ahmed might mean which most people take it as his name is Ahmed, right? And so that's one of the names of the prophet Muhammad. But then the other way it could be read, ismuhu Ahmed means his name will be the most praised and a lot of the scholars say that it's not saying that his name is Ahmed, even though that was one of the names of the prophet Muhammad, but his name Ahmed will be, or his name will be Ahmed, meaning it'll be the most praised name. So every time you hear the prophet Muhammad, Allah's name and his ad, you hear the prophet Muhammad's name right after. Just everywhere you go, even in America, because you would never thought Muhammad would be a big name in America. But it's one of the most widely used names for babies even in the United States. And so they say that Jesus was foretelling that the prophet Muhammad would come and his name will become so praised among people that that would be one of the miracles of the prophet. But you can take either way. You can say his name is Ahmed and that's one of the names of prophet Muhammad, or you can say his name is the most praised, which we see just as Muslims, we all see the prophet Muhammad's name. If you meet somebody and they name Muhammad, you like, right on, bro. Shout out to your parents. I actually met a non-Muslim with non-Muslim parents in Berkeley and his name was Muhammad. And I was like, right on, man. Know what I'm saying? Ha ha ha. Yeah, you raised an interesting challenge to interface dialogue, which is what if you interpret the same text differently? What, how do we get to a common understanding when we read the same passage, but we derive different meanings from it? And it's inevitable because it's not just Islam or Christianity that are interpretive traditions interpreting the Bible in a way that's consistent with their respective faiths. Jews do the same thing. We are also an interpretive tradition. So we also have this long, this large body of literature reading the Bible and saying, oh, I think it means this. Even though it doesn't say that specifically in the Bible, that's part of our interpretive tradition. So when I hear alternative understandings coming from a different faith, I say, I get it. I understand what they're doing. I understand the process of interpretation that's involved there because we do the same thing. So specifically about profits. Well, there are, you know, our Bible consists of a collection of books, okay? You've got the Torah, that's the first five books, but our Bible actually consists of 39 books. We divide it in three sections. Torah, prophets, writings. Writings is a collection of random books like Psalms. Christians call our Bible the Old Testament. We don't call it the Old Testament because we don't have a new one, but it's the same thing. Slightly different order of the books, but it's the same books. Okay, our Bible has only a small number of people who are referred to as prophets in the Torah, but the books of the prophets have a lot of people who are called prophets. And they extended over a period of several centuries. And the last one chronologically speaking is a guy named Malachi, and he lived in the fourth century before the common era at a time when Persians ruled over Judea. And that's it. After him, there's a few more books in the Bible that were written after that, but there's nobody else called a prophet in the Bible after that. The rabbis in the post biblical period said, yeah, he was the last one. It stopped with him. Now we can understand why they would say prophets, he stopped with him because the intent of the rabbis was to normalize the religion. If you have people coming along saying, yeah, well, God talked to me, and now we could do this or we could do that or we shouldn't do this. And it's different from what we said before. It undermines the stability of the faith. Well, faiths go through growth periods and stabilizing periods. The rabbis wanted to stabilize Judaism. They didn't want to keep seeing a change. They wanted to normalize it. And so they said, no more prophecy. And so Jews don't have any prophets after the last one mentioned in the Bible. That's about as far as I could go. I can't actually comment about anything about Muhammad in the Bible because it's not part of our interpretive tradition. So you said Malachi was when? He's a fourth century BCE. BCE, so this Persian period. After Alexander the, I'm sorry, before Alexander the Great, after the Babylonian empire falls, Cyrus comes along, defeats the Babylonians, and then you've got Persian rule for about 200 years. Thank you. Thank you for your time. I appreciate it. As someone who's new to the Korean or the Tanakh, the Hebrew Bible, what English translation would you recommend for both books? I want to hear what's the English translation for Quran. You said, he said for the Bible too, right? He said both, yeah. You know, for the Holy Quran, I just, most of the translations, I feel like are pretty consistent. I go usually, I just grew up with Yusef Ali. So that's the one that I always tell people about, but it's going to be a lot of people, a lot of people go and say, Yusef Ali, don't read that one. Do any other, what do you guys say? Yusef Ali, Yusef Ali. Then there's a Mohammed, Marmaduke, Pictor, but we don't understand that these are kind of the older translations. There are some newer translations where it's not written in like thou, thus, this wizard type stuff. You might want to check out one of those. They got one called the clear Quran, and I see that everywhere. I've never read it myself, but I know that that's like permeating a lot of places. And I think that's one of the most up-to-date translations. I feel like a lot of people get stuck with the old English, which I feel like as a Muslim, you know, the one thing about the Holy Quran, even though it was written on a high standard of Arabic, it was written in a way, it was revealed in a way that common Arabs at the time understood what the Prophet was talking about when he recited it. Even though they knew the Arabic itself is a high standard, but it was, it's very clear. And I feel like if you just translate it in an older English, it's not always clear what you gotta kind of read it with a dictionary. So I think that's why books like the clear Quran, they try to make it by the name of it. The clear Quran, just so it's easier to read. But the best thing, study Arabic, man. That's the best thing. Like once you get a little grounding in the Arabic language, it's gonna open up the book. You're gonna just be like, man, I feel like I was walking around surrounded by water. You know how you underneath the pool and you can hear voices, but you can't make nothing out and then you come up and everything's clear. That's what Arabic will do for you. Once you start to know the Arabic language, the Quran will speak to you in ways that you didn't even, you'll be in Tahrir Wee and you won't even be feel like it's long because you understand what's going on. It's a humbling life. Man, this is exactly where I was going. I can't, you said the exact thing I was gonna say. Of course translations are useful. Translations help us a lot. But I'm always surprised when I hear people talk about certain English Bibles as, yeah, well that's God's word. Folks, it wasn't written in that language. So we have the exact same, not just the riches of knowing Hebrew to be able to read the original, but also the same challenge. It's not the language that most Jews speak. So Israelis have it much easier because they can open up the Bible and read it straight and they have no problem, but American Jews, you know, it's a struggle to learn a foreign language and of course, Americans were really bad about foreign languages, let's admit it. Best translation, this one is easy though for us because there is one that is the overwhelmingly popular translation. It's the Jewish Publication Society. Jewish Publication Society is the largest distributor of English language Bibles. Their translation is the most scholarly. So it's not a single person's idea. It represents a consensus of a scholarly community and it's also the basis for many of the Bible commentaries that people use in synagogues. Now, I don't actually recommend, just like what you said, I don't recommend just simply getting a Bible and reading it cold. I recommend reading with commentary because it's too difficult. The stuff is ancient, it's ancient literature and what's more is people, a lot of people say, hey, I'm gonna read the Bible. I never read the Bible, I'm gonna read it. They start out and the beginning's great, you know? And it's got lots of action and you got family dynamics and families arguing with one another and you got floods and all. It's fun, you get through the end of Genesis. Sorry, this is good, you get to Exodus and okay, we still got a pretty good story through the first half of Exodus. Moses getting the Israelites out of Egypt and there's plagues and there's departing of the sea and then there's Mount Sinai. And then you hit the laws and the laws start to get really dense and after the first year you get 10 commandments, okay, I can handle 10 commandments, oh, there's more and then there's more and then there's building, the Tabernacle. What's a Tabernacle? And then if you manage to get through the book of Exodus, you get to Leviticus and this is where the eyes start to glaze over because the first seven chapters of Leviticus are all about sacrifices, how you sacrifice animals and this is where people give up. They just throw in the towel. Of course this is important stuff. Of course this is meaningful to us but it's too hard without commentary. So even though there is a very good English translation Jewish Publication Society, most people should start reading with one of the various versions that have commentary in them and of course there's a lot more out there. Salamu alaikum, shalom alaikum. I am going to ask if each of you can comment on the different books that have been mentioned. You have the Quran and you have the Hadiths. And then also I would like to know about the Torah and the Talmud. Those two different, you have two different books that I just. So the Quran, when we talk about the Quran, that's looked at as being God's word. And then when we talk about the Hadith, the Hadith is a collection of statements that are either what the Prophet peace repart him, what he said, what he did, what was done around him and he didn't say don't do that, what they call tacit approvals. That's a lot of times what the Hadith is looked at. And so when it comes to usul ufik, which is like the foundations of law, the Quran would be looked at as being what they call Qut'i or definitive, a definitive source, meaning it's unquestionable. And then the Hadith is looked at as being Zunni, which is a speculative source, meaning each one of these statements have to be graded. You can't just take a Hadith, you gotta say okay, you gotta look at the chain and their rations, you gotta look at the text. It's the science in itself. And so they're two separate sources, but when they come together, that's when people say that's the Quran and Zunni. So if somebody was to say, I don't accept this Hadith, that wouldn't be that problematic because it's a speculative source. But if somebody would say, I don't accept this verse from the Holy Quran, that would be like a statement of heresy because it's a definitive source, which means now you're denying that God revealed it, and that's part of the beliefs of the religion is that God revealed the Holy Quran. And so does that answer the question? Oh, I'm sorry, I should have been a little bit more clearer. So whenever somebody says Hadith, there be this is what somebody reported that the Prophet Muhammad said or he did, but it's not a part of the Holy Quran. But it's very, very important. Even I don't wanna say speculative just so some of those statements have been rigorously authenticated. So they're called what they call authentic. Some of those statements are graded as being Hassan, which is like good. Some of those statements are graded as being weak, da'if. Some of my favorite Hadith are weak though. Like when I'm telling my kids to do stuff, it's from weak Hadith all day. You know what I'm saying? As long as it's telling them that as long as the Hadith is you telling them to do something good, then a weak Hadith is perfect. You know what I'm saying? And then some of the Hadith are called da'if jiddan, which is very weak. And most of these Hadith in certain circumstances, they could get a promotion. So a Hadith could be weak, but if it's similar to another Hadith that's good, it'd be classified good, be guided by something else. And a Hadith could just be good and it could go up to authentic by something else. But you know, once something goes da'if jiddan, it can't go up, you know what I'm saying? Or if something is just fabricated, then it's not gonna be used at all. So that's the Hadith. I'm very interested in Torah and Talmud. Just clarify something for me. Is Hadith one specific collection of rulings or is there a body of literature in anything that group of literature is regarded as Hadith? Yeah, so the Hadith is just a massive body and it's been collected by different collectors. So like the one is most used by Sunni Muslims is gonna be called Sahih Bukhari. So this is his collection of Hadith that he graded all of them as being authentic. I'm saying he graded more Hadith but he only collected the ones he says authentic in this particular collection. Then there's another one, Sahih Muslim. And then there's Hadith that's in both of those books which are agreed upon. And so those are agreed upon between Bukhari Muslim, those are some of the strongest Hadith, but you got like Nassai, Ibn Madjah, you got a whole lot of collections. Most of those are just called Sunni which means they just collect Hadith on the topic and they'll tell you the grade of the Hadith. Like so Imam of Tirmidhi, all of his Hadiths aren't gonna be authentic. You have to gonna have to read. Oh, he said that this Hadith is weak. You know what I'm saying? And some of the Hadith can be classified weak. Most of them are gonna be classified by their chain and narrations. I mean, who said what to who? Did these even match up? These guys never, one died before the other one was born. That's gonna throw the Hadith, it's gonna be weak. But then there's also a Hadith could be, it can have an internal in its actual, and this is what most Muslims, a lot of Muslims don't understand. If the Hadith has an internal problem in the actual, the metin, which is like the, what you actually read, the parts you read, the subject, scholars can classify it as weak. So some scholars might read a Hadith and say, well, this Hadith goes against the principles of what the Prophet taught. So it's shad or it has an illa. So we're gonna say it's weak, we're not gonna accept it. So sometimes I can comment for Muslim like me, I'll be like, this Hadith is authentic and I'll try to wrap a whole thing around it. And then I'll meet somebody who knows something and he'll be like, man, that Hadith is weak. So Hadith is his own science, but it's not, it's not, like it's just, it was millions of Hadith and the scholars over the years try to sort through them. And that is really helpful to me. Thank you. So the question was about Torah and Talmud. So Torah is the first section of the Jewish Bible. It's just the five books of Moses, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, okay? That the Torah, most of the Torah, Torah is a combination of narrative and legal passages. Most people are familiar with the narrative passages, but there's more legal material than narrative material in the Torah. When was the Torah compiled? We, from a scholarly perspective, we would guess somewhere around between 550 BCE. That the material is much older than that. The material may go back all the way to 1000 BCE, but its final form, the form we've got it today was probably edited back then, fifth century BCE. Talmud is entirely a rabbinic body of literature. So it's both biblical. And it collects the rulings of rabbis from approximately 200 of the common era up to somewhere around 500 of the common areas. About three centuries of rulings by rabbis. It is not people mistaken for being a commentary on the Bible, it is not a commentary on the Bible. It's a law book. The vast majority of the Talmud is case law. If this happens, then one should do this. And it's rabbis arguing with one another frequently. It often records a majority and minority opinion. It doesn't have the same, like you were saying, the same authority as the Torah. It has authority, but a weaker authority. And one of the reasons for recording the minority opinion is so that in some future generations, some other rabbi might come along and say, but actually that was the stronger argument, and we should follow that rabbis' ruling. It is a legal tradition in that sense. It's very much like Islam. Having said that, I belong to the reform movement of Jews. It's the most liberal of the three major movements of Judaism, reform, conservative, and orthodox. And we are not bound by, reform Jews did not consider themselves bound by Jewish law. It is our tradition, it's our heritage. It informs our choices, unlike the more traditional movements that see themselves as following Jewish law. So we all share this literature. It's part of our heritage. We looked at the literature for guidance and inspiration and to establish basic values of Judaism, though we might not consider it legally binding the way a more traditional Jew would. So that's, I think, a general explanation about Talmud. I wanna be sensitive at the time. Looks like we have time for probably another question. First, thank you so much for the opportunity to listen and learn. I wanna return to Moses for a minute. So in Christianity, or in some corners of Christianity, we have what we call liberation theology, which was really birthed among people who were historically oppressed. And it looks at the story of Moses and sees that God is a God who hears and rescues the historically marginalized. And though it's theology, it's really practice driven and speaks to us on how to address the world today. And I'm just wondering if you could speak to how your respective traditions see the story of Moses as a call to action today. Thanks for bringing us back to the text. And the whole point of telling the story of the Exodus at Passover is it says in the Haggadah, our script, every generation should view themselves as if they personally had gone out of Egypt. We have to remember that we were slaves. If you remember that you were a slave, that it affects the way you view the world. You cannot be indifferent because your family went through that. You cannot ignore the oppression of people today who are not free for whatever reason. And so there is a sense of ethical obligation that comes out of retelling the story of the Exodus that we need to be participants in bringing about redemption. Redemption was not meant for us. Redemption was meant for the world. And because we were freed, we now have an obligation. And that obligation is to pursue that redemption because that is the fulfillment of creation itself. So that's, I think, without focusing on Moses, more focusing on the story, the story of the Exodus, that's the mandate that comes out of telling the story. So I'll just end, it's a ayat in sort of cusses where Allah says, what we redo in the moon and the dina, study, fulfill, art, while it's Elohim, a imma, while it's Elohim a water theme. And so when it comes to liberation theology, I think that this ayat where God says he wanted to show a preference to those who are oppressed in the land. And he wanted to make them the leaders and he wanted to make them the inheritors. And this is directly talking about, first of all, about Moses and the Israelites, but just throughout history, you'll see the people who are marginalized and people who are oppressed, wherever they are, they're gonna be the culture of that society. I don't care who they are, what land it is, the oppressed and the marginalized. And you can take that. It's a black person from America. Everything cool in America is black. Like the dress, the music, cause God said he's gonna make those who are oppressed into the leaders and he's gonna make those who are oppressed into the inheritors. So even though they're being locked out of certain things, people are still gonna be like, this is what's groovy, or this is what's hip, or this is what's cool. Know what I'm saying? And so that is, to me, that's the basis for me of liberation theology, which I feel like the Bay Area, we all practice liberation theology to some extent, know what I'm saying? And I know that my daughter keeps texting me. I was like, she should not have brought her phone. She's like, hum the Lord, when are we breaking this fast? I think that's a good cue for us to go into the fellowship hall, the banquet hall, and get ready for our meal, inshallah. So thank you all for coming out. A big round of applause for our presenters. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.