 You may have heard that we have Matthew Hughes joining us today. Matthew is the executive director at the International Relations Council, and Matthew is joining us today to talk to us about growing and adapting your membership. So welcome, Matthew. We are excited to have you in particular to talk about this topic today. Jared, it's a real treat to be with you. Thank you so much. Absolutely. And before we get started, we like to start every episode by saying thank you, thank you, thank you to all of our amazing presenting sponsors. You can see their logos right in front of you on the screen. We are so eternally grateful to all of our sponsors that you see here. I like to say that these sponsors like us. They like Julia and they like me, the nonprofit nerd, but they love you. They love the work you do. They love that you are supporting and elevating so many causes and missions in your community. So please do find them online, give them a like or some love, and again, just know that they are here to support you and to help you do more good work. I'm so grateful to Julia Patrick for having this wonderful idea, March of last year. And she said, let's come on and do this for two weeks. And here we are almost, gosh, I want to say like a year and a half later, not quite a year and a half, but clearly the two weeks have blown by. Julia Patrick is the CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. She's not able to join us today. So here I am when the cats away, the mice will play. I'm Jarrett Ransom, also known as the nonprofit nerd, CEO of the Raven Group. Enough about us. I want to dive into our conversation with you, Matthew. But first of all, before we do it again, I just want to thank you for joining us. And if you would spend a little bit of time before we dive into memberships, tell us about the International Relations Council, who you are, what you do and why it exists. You bet. And thanks again, Jarrett for this opportunity. It's great to be with you today. The International Relations Council is a Kansas City nonprofit organization. We basically talk about what's going on around the world, how it connects to our community here with the mission of strengthening Kansas City's global perspective. As you can imagine, COVID has brought us some really interesting challenges and changes in how we deliver that mission. But it's just as critical now as it was when it was founded in 1955. Eleanor Roosevelt was our first speaker in January of that year. And since then, we've been bringing in journalists, professors, diplomats. We've had discussion groups. We have a film club. We have a couple book clubs. We have cooking classes, right? Things to bring people into the international at the ground floor, but things to bring people into international discussions at a higher level as well. You are hard pressed to find a city that is farther away from the border than Kansas City in the United States. Oh, you are so right. And 55, I mean, clearly, I'm still stuck on that, on that number that you shared. I cannot imagine really what the membership cycle has looked like for the organization. And so I'm really excited to dive into overall membership organizations. And our first topic here is how do memberships work? Now, again, I'm going back to that 1955. And I imagine, Matthew, they've worked a little differently over the centuries. Just just a little bit. And I'll tell you, Jared, that our founder was executive director for nearly 40 years and then a lifetime board member after that until he passed away in 2012. So you can appreciate. And I'm sure some of your other guests on this series have talked about founder syndrome and what that looks like for an individual or a practice to be the center of gravity for an organization for such a long time. And so, you know, thinking about what a dynamic membership looks like has really been a challenge for us, but a real opportunity as well. I've been at the IRC for five years now. I was the only staff when I started five years ago for a year and a half. And now we're a staff of four and we're continuing to grow. And a lot of that has been how our membership has been able to grow and change with the organization as well. You know, I think there are a lot of folks who see membership as some sort of transaction. Right? You pay a certain level of dues and you get certain benefits out of it. And we even talk about membership in that way, sort of like a used car salesman. Right? So if, you know, if you pay your dues now, we'll throw in a free wiper blade or something like that. Just one, although you need two. That's right. That's right. So it's not quite good enough. But I think that that really dynamic membership blends art and science. Right? So it's not just about the dues transaction. It's about the art of membership and figuring out how you build relationship, how you build community, how you build buy in with the audience that you are going after. You know, and I had shared with you in the chitty chat chat, as we so professionally call it. I actually started my career in a membership organization. So I was an intern in Greenwood, South Carolina, where I went to college. I went to Lander University and I was an intern for the Greenwood Area Chamber of Commerce. That was where I first dipped my toe into not only membership organizations, but truly nonprofits at large in that professional space. I had done a lot of volunteering throughout my childhood and, you know, really, really early adulthood. But I never considered nonprofit as a career venture until I had that opportunity with a membership organization. So for you to come on and talk to us about how they work and you already hit so many nails on the head, you know, receiving buy-in, staying relevant, so many conversations that we really need to keep. I'm going to say top of mind. And I imagine many of these changed or maybe some of the focus and priority areas may have changed over the last 18 months. So that moves us into this slide that you all see in front of you here, which is really talking about the lifecycle. And what can you share with us when it comes to a membership lifecycle, Matthew? Sure. You know, just like customers, right? Just like anyone who has any sort of affiliation. You don't start your membership the way that you finish your membership or the way that you continue your membership. At some point, you have to be brought in, right? And so outreach is a really, really critical first step. And it's incumbent on the organization that's trying to build this community to figure out what outreach looks like and the approach you're going to use. And I'm sure you've talked about generational differences among stakeholder groups. You know, it really depends on the different personas that you're looking at, the different folks who you're trying to reach, how you're going to reach out. But the next step is acquisition and onboarding, actually bringing people on as members. And again, it's easy to look at that transactionally and to say it's just the dues transaction. But what is our obligation to the members we're serving? What is our obligation in terms of providing information, in terms of getting them up to speed? I'm sure you've had some folks talking about best board practice and things like that. What's good for the board is good for the member at large. And being able to equip them with the tools they're going to need to get the most out of their membership experience. Then you have to think about how you engage folks. And again, that's going to look very different depending on the stakeholder groups that you have. For some, it's very straightforward. So, you know, membership organizations are a very unusual breed of nonprofit organization. Some are very specific and very niche. You know, here in the Midwest, we have a lot of farmers associations, for example. And so you can get the soybean farmers together and they can talk about things relevant to soybeans, right, which is great and very important for them professionally. But for us at the International Relations Council, we have a much broader membership. And so we have working professionals and we have students and we have retirees and we have just interested members of the community who care about the world. And so it's really critical that we're finding meaningful ways to engage them where they are as they are and with what they need. There are two more steps. One is how we're acknowledging the members as we go along for the contributions that they're making. The value chain really is two ways at a membership organization. And we rely on members all the time to bring as value as volunteers, as leaders, as discussion leaders, as moderators, whatever it might be. And then finally, what does retention look like? And how are you inviting people who have dived in deeper to the organization to become advocates, to become ambassadors for the work that you're doing and to help you with the outreach so that the cycle continues? Wow. And I would imagine perfecting all of those steps takes systems. It takes processes. It takes time, sweat, equity, a lot of just really clarifying the steps. What's working for you as a membership organization? Because what works for you for the IRC might be different than another membership organization. Now, one of the things I'm known for here, and this is by no means meant to put you in a corner, Matthew. But as you were talking about in particular the life cycle of memberships, I'm just curious if there is a timeline or a shelf life, that's a bad terminology, of how long does a member typically, on average, stay a member? What does that look like? I think it depends on a lot of factors. It depends on who they are, the stage of life that they're in. So for us, we have basically a lifelong sort of membership, where you could join as a very young person, you could join as a retiree, you could join anywhere along the way. And your reasons, your why for getting involved, may morph, may evolve over that time. So it's about maintaining relevance. I think for us, we look at a two-year new membership span. And so basically, if folks are with us for two years, they've pretty much seen the sort of value that they can get out of the organization, out of the community that we have built and are continuing to build. And by that point, they've pretty much made up their mind about staying involved, because again, they see that value, they see the relevance to wherever they are in their life and to wherever their why might be. Other organizations, as you very correctly signal, Jarrett may have a shorter new membership period, or may have a longer period, depending on what their purpose is. If they're working with recent college graduates, for example, or young professionals, that may need a longer runway to really get folks up and running. Whereas some professional organizations, if they're offering a certification or something like that, the value may be obvious, and it may be an immediate buy-in for the member. Yeah. Another curveball, really going through this, and I like to preface it, so you know it's coming. How have you managed and really retained your membership through what I'm going to say, one of the political pandemics? You know, I've said pandemics plural over the last two years, and so really looking at social justice, looking obviously at the political divide, looking at the global virus, and then I'm also going to throw in environmental issues. So I can imagine that you've got a very segmented membership group, and what does that look like when it comes to really keeping all the various segments happy and on board? You bet. And we ask this to ourselves all the time. What does it mean for us to be an apolitical, nonpartisan educational organization since the day of our founding? And that has been an integral part of our identities. So don't just look at this moment. Look at the moments that have happened since 1955, right? And how do we do that? You know, one way that we look at it, Jared, is to say, we're not just talking about international affairs and what's going on around the world and how we connect to that. We are also helping to foster informed civil discourse in this time of such deep polarization and division. How are we centering skills like critical thinking, active listening, empathy, media literacy to help people really inform themselves in one another about what's going on? We have a very broad table at the IRC. We do our best to welcome people of different perspectives and backgrounds to that table. And I think that's something that we're uniquely equipped to do. People bring opinions, but how well can they share those opinions? How well can they articulate those? And how open are they to listening to others and actually listening, not just developing a visceral response? And so we have discussion groups that help with that. We have opportunities for members to get to know each other personally because we know that that personal connection really helps to break down those walls. And like we say at the IRC, how can we do international relations if we can't do interpersonal relations? I couldn't have said it better. And I don't think over the last 300 and so plus episodes, anyone has said it better. And all of that really plays a major role into the life cycle. And a couple of things that you just hit on really were about why memberships join or renew. I'm going to give a little sneak peek because the next slide is also about the discourse and engagement. But let's go back to why members join or renew. And so we talked a little bit about that life cycle. I also threw a couple of curve balls that none of this is scripted. So for those of you that are watching live or either on the recording, Matthew is truly just having a very direct conversation style dialogue with me. And I have no script either. So these are very genuine questions out of just sheer curiosity. But talk to me about, because you had said you're in particular membership there at IRC, Matthew, is very diverse and even age diversity, right? So you've got young individuals. You've got retired individuals, although now people are retiring at any age. So that doesn't really name an age range there. But talk to me in particular about IRC and if you can also just kind of some broad strokes about why someone would join a membership organization or why they might consider renewing. You bet. I think it goes back to the personas that you're looking at, the different marketing personas, the different membership profiles. And their whys are all going to be different, right? Some do it for personal gratification because they're interested in the topics that we're talking about. Some people have a personal connection to something international, right? They may have come from another country. They may have lived or worked in another place. Others do it because of the community. And this is something we've really tried to focus on is how are we building a community within this organization? It's really not just about the content and the subject matter experts that we invite in. And it's not even about the discussions themselves. It's about the stronger bonds that are forged. Social fabric is something that's fraying right now. How are we bringing folks together? There's a book by a sociologist named Ray Oldenburg. It was published in the late 80s, republished in the early 2000s. It's called The Great Good Place. And it's really been an inspiration for me as we look at building a community within a membership organization. Basically, Oldenburg talks about three places in society. The first place is home. The second place is work. And the third place is essentially cheers. It's the place that everybody knows your name. You have peers there. There's a leveling factor. So stratification is not an issue. And you can really bring yourself to that space. And that's been inspirational for us at the IRC as we look at the intergenerational nature of the work that we do. How are we able to bring recent college graduates into the same room as CEOs and people who have worked in international business for years? And I think it's that leveling factor that Oldenburg talks about. And so that's been a really, really special motivator for us. And we're very excited to get out of the pandemic and be able to bring people together in person because we know that that's really where those social bonds can form. I just wrote that down. So Ray Oldenburg, I'm going to have to check out that book. It's a good one. It's a good one. Yeah, thank you for that. I remember, so I went through a leadership program in my community here where I reside. And although thanks to having Liz on with the World Affairs Council Dallas Fort Worth, she really introduced to me what global citizenry was. And I have always been a global citizen, but never knew that's what it was called. So really looking at that in a different perspective is really cool. So this leadership program I was a part of, I want to say the book that I'm thinking is civically engaged or civic for good. But I remember there was a gosh, I don't know, some kind of a white paper in this book. And it talked about why people join anything. And it really does go back to that three that you just mentioned, Matthew, but also really that sense of belonging, having that sense of belonging, being with like-minded people. I think any of us could think back to our early ages of maybe it's we joined something at church group for me, like I joined the Brownies and the Girl Scouts. I was also part of a soccer team. And so that was my sense of belonging. That was surrounding myself with individuals that created community for me. And that is not unlike, I don't think, really what a membership organization might provide. No, I think that's exactly right. I think that's exactly right. And when you think about the community and what's required to sustain it, it's about giving people meaningful ways to engage and plug in, giving people a variety of on-ramps and access doors that match their own unique circumstances and doing the hard work on the backend to personalize that experience as much as possible. Technology helps some with that. But again, it really is that balance between art and science. And you've got to have the artistic side, which is relational, which is actually talking to and listening to your members. I love that you've driven that home. Art and science, very, very two key points here. So I gave a sneak peek on this slide, and this is really our last and final topic, but I know we could talk about it a lot. And if you saw, I gave snaps when you were talking about civil discourse because I really believe civil discourse is dead. It is not something that we see happen often in our society, unfortunately, right? We're just very politically divided when it comes to relations and overall politics. But what does this look like when it comes to membership discourse as well as that membership engagement? You know, I think a really important part of this is intentionality. How are we being deliberate as we set up programs that are meant to have this sort of ripple effect? You know, it's no surprise that in Kansas and Missouri where we work, we're in a pretty politically divided part of the country, right? And we have people all across the political spectrum here. How are we intentionally setting up a space where people feel comfortable to come together no matter their political leanings, no matter their opinions on things? And a lot of that comes down to how we build trust with them. You and I were talking before, Jared, about the importance of communication, the importance of transparency, right? All of those things engender trust within a community. And again, giving people the opportunity to get to know each other on a personal level. So I think that's an important part of it. Another important part of it is the program framing that we use. You know, a conversation isn't just a conversation, right? A really impactful conversation has been thoughtfully put together, right? And in terms of the title that it's given, for example, in terms of how it's framed, in terms of the preparation that's offered to the speaker and the moderator, in terms of the preparation that's offered to the audience members or others who might participate, how are we setting people up for success in the conversations that we have? And as people become more comfortable and more confident, how are we giving them a chance to step into a leadership role to help them guide the conversation and sustain the conversation? And one other thing that I think is important to share, you know, we occupy at the IRC and many other associations a really unusual mission space. You know, we're not supporting the arts, we're not supporting pets, we're not supporting health issues or education per se. And so it's not a lot of the typical approaches for charitable support don't work for an organization like the IRC. And really it comes down to how are we developing the relationship with our members to where they see the value in what we're doing at a local level and in terms of building global awareness more broadly. So that they want to turn around and support what we do and bring others into the conversation as well. I think all of that comes back to building that community and setting the organization up for sustainable success. That is so important. And you know, as we loop back to the beginning of our conversation, I shared in the very introductory point of I started my career in a chamber of commerce. So it was a membership organization, a C6. And I remember, you know, being in part of some of those conversations of the membership retention, how are we attracting members, but how are we retaining members? And as we all know, retention is a big piece of success for any organization membership or not, is really looking at how do we retain our happy donors or happy members or happy supporters. And you had made a comment, Matthew, about sometimes, and I don't want to put words in your mouth. So if I say this wrong, please correct me. But really looking at sometimes people might join an organization and really see it as transactional. Now, I'm going to go back to, you know, I would always talk about when you join a membership, when you join an organization like the chamber, it's like a gym, right? You join a gym and you're not, you're not going to get fully buff and lose weight just by joining the gym. Like you have to put in the time. You have to do the work. You have to build the relationships. And so with, you know, my previous experience in my career at a Chamber of Commerce, the best success came from the members that truly got the most out of their membership by being actively engaged. And that I think is what I'm hearing you say, you know, throughout this whole episode as a member, but also as the organization providing membership, it goes so much further than that transaction. And as you just talked on, and I know I'm a bit on the soapbox here because I got really passionate, but as you just talked about, you know, it's really about building those relationships, building that community. So therefore the membership becomes the advocate to increase more members, which therefore increases a stronger community. And how are we taking the initiative as the organization to educate prospective members and new members and even continuing members on the ways there are to get involved? It's not their fault if they weren't aware of certain opportunities that would have been a perfect fit. If we didn't take the time to package that and get it in front of them in a way that they're going to see, right? If something's very deep on the website and the website's out of date and doesn't get updated very often and so on, people don't have a reason to go to it. So keeping updated communications and materials is very important. But also taking a look at what your organizational volunteer needs are and then seeking out people with a personal invitation. Even today and, you know, and it seems like communication has changed so much, right? Even over the last couple of years how we get in front of people, but a personal ask, you know, something where you can say, I thought of you for this is still incredibly meaningful no matter what generation you belong to. And so I think it's worth taking the time to figure out what your needs are and where people can actually fit in. So true. Everyone likes to tap on the shoulder and that I thought of you really is that verbal tap on the shoulder. And I think, as you said, regardless of demographic, regardless of age, that is always very well received. It sure is. And, you know, I'll add just one other thing, Jared, to this, which is that representation matters a lot. And we've really been able to center this as part of the conversation around diversity, equity, and inclusion. But we hear a lot of membership organizations saying why can't we diversify our membership? You know, why can't we get members of X demographic to join? And a couple of thoughts with that. One, we've got to be careful not to paint with too broad a brush, right? There is incredible diversity within different communities. And I think it's really important to recognize that. But also have we taken the time to build the most visible parts of our organization with representation where others can look at that and say, I see myself represented in this organization, whether that's on the board, whether that's in staff, key volunteer roles, program attendees, speakers, whatever it might be. Are we taking the time to be mindful about the image that people have about the organization and how well they will be welcomed when they arrive? If you don't see somebody like yourself at an organization, it's hard to dive in headfirst. And that's really, I think, an important thing for all of us to focus on in a continual way as we go forward. I'm so glad you added that. And you know, we have a couple of more minutes here before we do wrap up. So I'm so grateful for you to bring that to the forefront and taking it further that it's not just the representation, but it's how are they included? How is that inclusivity? Once they become a member or once they become a part of that community, how are you receiving this individual listening to this individual, right? Making sure their voices are heard and so that it really goes beyond just the sheer fact of the representation. That is wonderful. And there's so much more to do once the diversity starts to really kick in. Absolutely. I mean, I think everything from surveys to focus groups, individual conversations, using board committees to help, right? Which are, by the way, best practices to have both board members and non-board members on the committees so that you're developing a field team for your next batch of board members. But how are they reaching out, for example, to new members and getting to know why they joined, getting to know what brought them to the organization, what they're hoping to get out of it because all of that can inform your strategy going forward as the organization, but it can also help you personalize your communications with that member so that they know some things that are already in place that may not have been as apparent to them upon joining. Right. Well, this has been wonderful. I am so grateful to have you on to talk about everything, not everything. We're really scratching the surface here, let's be honest. But I'm so grateful to have you on with us today, Matthew. Thank you for joining us, spending some of your very, very busy schedule in your time. Again, Matthew Hughes, Executive Director at IRC and our National Relations Council. So grateful that Liz Brillsford has connected us and to have you on. And I'm just so honored to have met you and to know the great work that you are doing here in our world. It is much needed. And for really shining the light on membership organizations, how they're a little different, some different nuances and personalities there. If you want to connect with Matthew or you want to learn more about IRC, please do check him and the organization out here. I will tell you he's also very active on LinkedIn as am I. And you can find him there as well. Thank you, Matthew. I'm so appreciative. Jared, this has been fabulous and thanks to you and to Julia. And a big thanks to Liz Brillsford in Dallas. Liz is a dear friend and colleague whose work I admire greatly. And it's just been so exciting to be with you today. Thank you. Absolutely. And before we leave, I of course want to give a shout out to Julia Patrick who isn't here today. But I think we did a really good job, Matthew. So hopefully she'll let us come back. I'm Jared Ransom, also known as the nonprofit nerd. And again, we are so extremely grateful to our presenting sponsors to have their support to continue these conversations like the one we just had today with Matthew Hughes, IRC, talking about membership. If you haven't checked out our other show, it's Fundraising Events TV with Jason Champion and Julia Patrick. It is event season. It is coming up and everyone is really looking at it's saving the dates of, you know, having a fundraising event or just overall events, what this might look like. So check out the Fundraising Events TV channel and see if you can glean some insight for your upcoming events there. And Matthew, thank you again and to all of you that have joined us today. So grateful to have you here joining us either live or recording. You can find all of our 300 plus, plus, plus episodes, Roku TV, Fire TV, as well as Vimeo YouTube and various websites. So thanks again for joining us. We will be back here tomorrow. Until then, please stay well so you can do well. Thanks again, Matthew.