 All right, welcome back. My name is Sakwa, and hashtag is Thousand Day Vibes. Still hashtag while in the morning, and our tour to Fafoi Channel on the ground, and everywhere else on social media. We are verified with a blue change. But personally, you can check me out at 1 or 1. Today, this segment of the day, it's all about sport and tech. And we're going to talk about software development, by the way. What do we need to be in the space? And professionally, we don't have to go to school. Is this something you can study right now? Not just like, you know, short crash courses online as well. And joining us live in the studio is a powerful gentleman, Anajita Talmon. I don't want to butcher the other name, so he's going to introduce himself fully. But first of all, good morning. Good morning. Welcome. Introduce yourself briefly, and then we can start off. All right. So my name is Talmon Mokese. I'm the CEO for Yarder School of Tech. I'm sure we'll get into that as some point. OK. Yes, I'm a born-again Christian. I love Jesus, and I love being in this tech space. Yes. Hallelujah. Now, you're a professional, you're a software. Software who? Developer? Let's say a software engineer. A software engineer. So if you don't mind, tell us what it takes to be a software engineer. Do you go to school to study for it? Is it something that me too, I can just pick up and read about it and become an engineer? Like, what are the dynamics of that journey? OK. The dynamics are quite simple nowadays, as long as you understand the journey. You understand what you need to do to get to where you want. You can start by going to school. It's advisable if that's your decided. But sometimes, you know, as Kenyans. We start off school, you are doing another course. By the time you realized your interest was in tech, a lot has happened. So I have two even who are doing different courses, but they ended up on this journey. So it depends on where you start. But if it's someone who's not started yet, I'd just advise you to go straight out and aim to do computer science. It will make your work easier. If not, you can still make it in this industry. You just need to find proper guidance. Because sometimes, if you go and you're self-taught, you won't be able to get as much as you want done in the time you want done. Because there's so much material you wouldn't know which one to choose from which. But if you find the proper channels of guidance, nowadays there are many out there. All right, good. For you professionally, like, did you, from high school, you always wanted to be a software engineer? Amma, how did it, like, happen for you? It happened in a funny way. Because I had never purpose to be a software engineer. I remember growing up when I was asked, I always wanted to be an aeronautical engineer. Even before I knew what that was, that's what I always wanted to do. Is the dream dead? Amma, still, he had to come. The dream died. Because you became a software engineer? Yes. OK. Yes, but that was not even in my plans. I just finished school. I was like, now, what do you want to do? I wasn't, I didn't know what I wanted to do. But I knew what I didn't want to do. So I personally chose. What is it you didn't want to do? I didn't want to do Bachelor of Commerce. Because I've seen people do it, do accounting and mathematics. And I was like, I didn't want mathematics at that point. So I don't know who lied to me that, get into computer science, you want to do mathematics. So I went into computer science thinking, I'll only be dealing with computers, opening them, doing this, doing that. I wasn't even so much into coding. But I went and found all the mathematics I was running away from. I was waiting for me there. Again, waiting for you there. Now, also take us through, like, what are some of the facets in software engineering? Because I know there's programming, system developments, and so many others. Please take us through some of the, like, a couple of, like, three. OK. So let's even put it this way. You can be either a software developer or a software engineer. Yes, and there's a subtle difference in that. In that, if you're a software developer, you're only concerned about delivering the application. I just come, make the application, deliver it to you. Now, a software engineer is concerned about everything, about scaling the software, about maintaining the code, about it being efficient, about using the right systems. A software engineer is concerned from the get go. Even developing it. Yes, yes, even developing. But they see the bigger picture as opposed to just going out and you want this done, I just go get it done. Then later, you want to scale. And we tell you, no, we have to start from scratch. It is the work of a software engineer to look at. OK, coding. You see the computer? Right, yeah. If you do, it will be centered on what you want to achieve. You might be, you want to venture into a new space, you want to. So it depends on people. They don't know what they want until they see it. So you'll find a client telling you, I just want a simple app like Uber just to come and do something like that, then finish. And you see Uber is not a simple app in the way you know it. So for you, knowing something as simple, it means someone has done a lot of work to make it simple for you. Yeah. Talk about backend and the front end. Also software and also programs like, how do you now get to that space where you're able to do what is behind here and then the other person feeds on it? OK, now when you start learning, let's say coding, you're going to be told now there is backend and there is front end. Backend basically is what drives the functionality. So you go to a site, you need to log in to be able to see some certain resources. I create a backend for you, meaning I give you access and I do all the operations there. So what you see in terms of where I can key in things or do things like that, that's the front end. Where I just appearance. In short, you're the user. It's like user interface. So I'm coming for a finished product. My work is just to use, in fact, sedually code data. You're like the server controlling everything. Interesting. Yes, it's like I'm behind the scenes doing things. Then you, your work is to just go and say, I want this resource. Or you want this resource, I give you. So now it's knowing the relation between the two. That's why in a software developing or software engineering journey, you can choose to either be backend or front end or you can choose to do both, which is called now being a full stack. You're both? Yes. Okay. I'm both. All right. Many times in our space, you'll find that you'll get into a company and you're doing some work as a backend, but the resources are not there. So we'll be told now you have to finish your work. Right. But there are people who have specialized. They can create the best visual things out there. So you'll find even a full stack developer is usually either front end heavy or back end heavy. Right. It depends. Right. Yes. Also now, now for like user and user, detector ourselves for bugs and whatnot. And but though what? I want, so we'll have an error. I did an error where I was supposed to send this podcast storage space and I didn't, I misspelled the storage space.