 Hello everyone, I'm very happy to be here, to have an opportunity to chat with two of my favorite people on this universe. So the first one is Antonio Nieto, it's a great friend and also a strong volunteer for the Project Management Institute that will talk a little bit about how we can get the project environment ready for transformation. And the second one is Alex Osservauder that is accepted our invitation one more time, he's the chair of this conference at the Drucker Forum here in Vienna that will talk a little bit about his new book and the innovation. So thank you very much for being here and my first question, it's obvious the world is facing a massive transformation of organizations everywhere. So what do you think is the missing component today for organizations and for people really to bridge that gap between ideas and reality? I start, okay Ricardo, well a pleasure to be here with you, with Breiland, with Alex. For me there's two maybe two pieces missing, I think often transformation starts without a clear purpose, without a clear why. So yes there's the good intentions, the computation is starting so we need to do that, but then what's the purpose? Why are we doing? There's no reflection, there's no really assessment of is it the right time to do the transformation? No, it's just people don't think, so for me the why and the reflection is a piece which is missing. And the second big part is the tools, the tools have become extremely complicated. So you get lost, you don't know which hammer to use and I think Alex is the guru on the tools as well. So I think I love to hear your views, but the purpose, why and then how to do it with the tools should be much easier. The purpose aspect is extremely important and it's underestimated. It sounds simple but it's not. If you don't have a clear guidepost people are not going to do it. So that is number one. And then really walking the talk by changing the enablers and blockers, taking away anything that could block the transformation. Again that sounds trivial, of course we're going to do that, but that's actually not always the case. We give a direction, we might give a purpose and then we leave the obstacles there. So we need to take away these blockers and we need to put in place enablers. And what that means is you're basically designing the new culture that you want to see emerge. So you can't just let culture happen, for transformation to happen, you need to design and manage the culture. Incredibly important and possible, but it requires a completely different kind of commitment than when you're just creating a new product or a new service. It's a different ball game. One thing that for us is quite visible is that how do you engage? You said about creating a culture and this. Of course if we have a startup company, this is easier, right? It's the founder mentality and it's... But how do you transform, I would say, a 20,000 employee enterprise that is doing, I would say the same thing for the past 50 years. So how do you change and drive that culture in a very practical way? So to think more about projects, to think more about how to get things done or to innovate more. So what would be your advice on that? Well, building on what Alex is saying, I think what drives the engagement for me, it's really when you talk about the benefits of the transformation. It's not about the business case, it's not the financials. We're going to grow 20%. No, we're going to transform this business. We're going to transform the industry. This is what excites people. I think when you talk about the benefits and that's what I can't relate with what I like, my passion and then I will follow because I will do it voluntarily. We've seen research shows that the most engaged people are the ones which volunteer. How does transformation work in most companies? Alex, you're part of the transformation. Ricardo, why companies don't ask, who wants to join this transformation? So this is a big turning point for me. Yeah, just look at the statistics today. Seven out of ten people are not engaged at work. You look at the Gallup polls, right? So are you going to be able to get people on board for transformation when they're not even engaged? They don't want to be where they are. They don't want to do the work that they're doing. They're looking for a new job already. There's no way you can get them engaged. So first, start by putting the human, the people back at the center of your transformation strategy. Again, it sounds a bit trivial, but it's not, right? You really need to create a workplace where people can come, live their passion, do the work that they're good at and that they enjoy, and then you can start saying, okay, now let me take you on a journey. But if you don't have engaged people to start with, don't start the journey. There's no way you can do it. I don't believe in that anymore because I've seen too much failure. So we need to start with people and asking ourselves, do we have a great workplace where people will be excited to follow me on this journey? And that is a hard thing to do, but that's leadership by engagement. And that's how we're going to change this. It is a question for you. You have engaged as a volunteer for many years. You do a lot of work related to that. I want to know, okay, how do we engage people? So how do we do that? You are extremely down to earth from the practical. What can, if you can give an advice, to engage people? So for example, my company is being challenged everywhere for transformation. It's being disrupted. My team is not engaged. So how do you shift this perception? What would be some clear steps to do that if you have any advice? So I would start already with the decentralization of power. Give people autonomy to do the right work because we're increasingly in a world where, at the top, you don't know what the right thing is to do. All you can do as a leader is create the conditions for teams to succeed, for teams and people to succeed. So create those conditions. And that's what you need to start with. Autonomous teams that are excited about what they do. And we've heard this, right? Heyer moved in that direction, Tencent moved in that direction. That's how you get people engaged and you get them passionate. If you don't have that decentralization, I think it's going to be very hard. If you're going through a crisis, maybe sometimes, you know, centralized kind of wartime CEO as Ben Horowitz likes to say, that works. But I believe less and less than that. Today we need to have decentralized organizations that are agile and quick. I love what Alex is saying because I do believe in project-based organization, which is what you're saying is, we have an idea. Well, let's explore that. We give you a budget to try it out. And then if it works, we deliver a product, a business. And actually, guys, you're not done when the project is over, but you run the business. So you're looking for end-to-end engagement. You want people who be owning the idea, developing the product or the project or the business, and then running the business. So you will be much more excited if you see what you're going to be running and you run it. You're accountable not for the project, but for the outcome and running it. And I think we are not there yet when you talk about transformation. You see that you're saying pieces of silos in the project, but there's no end-to-end agile teams. What I would add to that is that's at the core, right? We've been talking about organizing around projects for a while. I think the component that's missing is you can say, you need to work on this project. Or you can create the conditions to say, we need to create value in this particular market. Go ahead, build the project. So you give them the legitimacy to act and to create projects. The project should not be started by mandate, but by autonomy. So I think that's the piece that we're missing a little bit to see real value creation emerge again in a world that's changing very rapidly. So I think that's a bit the missing component, right? That we need to infuse into the project-based organization. The value, maybe adding Ricardo Alex, the fearless. I think Ami is great at that. You can fail. You can fail, and failure will happen. And let's recognize the failure, let's reward failure like in some companies so that we get better and better and better. So I think that's when you look at traditional transformation, you don't hear about failure that much. You don't hear what Alex is talking about this ideal.