 Good evening to you and thank you for joining us on Y254 Updates. My name is Patricia Muriuki and tonight we talk about a very informative topic. Our topic for the night is understanding sexual consent. Hand to help us talk about this tonight. We have Emma Monguta who is a founder, a modular foundation. She is also an Afro feminist. She is a human rights activist and a burden political analyst. We also have MC Sefa who is the founder and CEO of MC Sefa events and also an entrepreneur. These two young people are going to help us really understand what really do we mean when we talk about sexual consent. We just try to overlook the term consent and see what really going, diving into detail what these means talk to us across our social media platforms, across our social media platforms at Y254. You can also reach me at Patricia Muriuki. As we start off consent means actively agreeing to be sexual with someone. Consent let someone know that sex is wanted. Sexual activity without consent is rape or sexual assault. Sexual consent is an agreement. To participate in a sexual activity before being sexual with someone you need to know if they want to be sexual with you too. It is important to be honest with your partner about what you want and don't want. Thank you very much for finding the time to be here with us tonight. And as we talk about this, we remember that some time back there were judges that proposed for the sexual consent age to be lowered to 16 from the age of 18. We also get to talk about that in our discussion tonight. I would like to start with you Sefa. When we talk about consent, what definition do you give to consent and how do you understand and perceive consent as an individual? Well, thank you very much for the opportunity to be here today. I believe that consent is something which is underrated in society or maybe it's seen as something which is not really important in society by some of the people but it should be known that consent is actually one of the most important things when it comes to sexual interactions because it's the agreement, it's the coming to an agreement of the two people or maybe agreeing to take part in a sexual activity and it should be very, it should be sacred, it should be taken care of, it should be very sensitive. So I believe that sexual consent should actually be given higher regard than it is in society right now. Okay. Amo for you, we know that there are also men who are sexually assaulted but most of the times when we talk about consent the most affected group is women. What is your, how do you perceive consent as a lady? Thank you Patricia for having me here tonight. This is a topic that I'm really passionate about and a topic that has pained so many women and has wounded so many people outside here and people are so afraid to talk about these and so many women outside here, young girls have been affected and so consent means an agreement between two people to get that freedom to copulate and these two people have to have the capacity in terms of they have to be both in the right frame of mind and they also have to be at a certain age for it to be considered consent for them to copulate. So that is my definition of consent. Okay. I just mentioned as we're starting that there was a proposal to lower the age consent to 16. Sefa, do you think in a country where we're still backling and still trying to end early marriages and to end teenage pregnancies are we really in the right track when we start thinking about lowering the consent age to 16 when we're fighting such practices? I think that's just outright being savage to these young people because first of all these people are not mature enough to make such a decision because sometimes you find actually the people that age 18 which is the legal consent age are not even mature enough to make that decision maybe they misuse that privilege that they've been given by their age to make that decision so I think this is just something that is being pushed without backing it's very malicious and it should not be a priority in such a nation you should actually look into talking to the ones who are turning 18, the ones who are 19 to talk to them and give them knowledge and the education that they need to know in terms of consent because some of them get into it without getting any kind of education or maybe information from parents or society then you have to figure these things out yourself and I think that's what we should actually aim to try and change in society As we argue that some men or some women do not even understand what consent means do you think Emma that the young girls and young boys talking about now people who are under the age of consent in this country are they even aware, do they even understand what consent is do they even understand that their know should mean know Okay, thank you so first off let me just add on to what Sefa has just addressed so my question to people who would think that it's okay to let a 16-year-old have the freedom to have sex my question to them would be what is their motivation what exactly is their angle what are they trying to drive at what are they trying to achieve is it business in terms of now let's sell contraceptives to them what exactly are they trying to do and as they are doing these do they have systems in place that empower and educate these young girls before they think of lowering the age of a lady or rather lowering the age to 16 years old according to science a youth is not an adult until they are past 24 the brain is not developed until somebody is past the age of 24 years old so when we try and have people in policy making positions trying to lower that age to 16 what exactly are they doing to society and what kind of future do they want to see or what kind of future do they want for our country and back to the question you asked on consent most girls I really honestly don't think they understand that issue of consent normally I have seen and I have talked to a few ladies and what they normally say is we have been with him for this time and so they feel it's okay we have been going out maybe going for dinas we have been going for dates and so I think it's time for me to engage so it's more of giving than really just being in that right frame of mind to consent the argument of the judges was that they feel that we have these under 18s who are actually actively engaging in sex and their thought was that there are people who are serving very long jail terms have been engaged in sex with young teenagers who were kind of like aware of what they were doing Sefa, do you think this is material enough for us to think that we should lower this because what if we are talking about the 1% that really consent and then there is the bigger percentage which has no idea about how we are not putting the rest at risk what's your thought on that? first of all that's a very that's a very limited thinking because it's an example maybe if you look at it in an example it's like giving a kid a sweet to accept something the kid will definitely say giving the kid candy she will definitely say she will do whatever you say it's taking advantage of the fact that this person is vulnerable and if we say that we are going to lower the age to cater for these people we assume are consenting to sex yet there are people who are not mature enough to make that decision if they lower the age that means that they are putting them in a situation where by the society will become they will be empowering these predators who are praying on this young people who are not yet at the age to make such a decision and it's simply giving up it's giving in to the pressure that's simply giving in to the pressure of society that we give up in terms of the consentage we give up we just want anybody who is willing to have sex let them have sex that's just giving up to society and maybe I went through there's a very interesting article that I normally look into by the plantparenthood.org it says that consent should be freely given that there should be no pressure this person should not force things that people need to understand when it comes to society these things need to be instilled deep into the education systems into the religious system so that people go through them consent should be freely given it should be reversible if somebody decides that maybe I'd say yes at a certain point and now I want to say no because of this it should be reversible it should be informed you can only consent to something that you know you are grown up you need to make a decision that you understand it should also be enthusiastic you need to do things that you want to do not things that you feel like you expected to do and that is very important and it should also be very specific people give an example of if somebody comes to your place and maybe you engage sexually but not yet sex maybe you make out and all that if that is consent it should be very specific if somebody agreed to a certain point that's it it should not be pushed to any other point so these factors need to be instilled deep into the society into the education systems and this is where we go wrong because the family which is the smallest unit the basic unit does not teach this sometimes when somebody goes to school they are not taught you are only taught about the reproduction only about the existence of sex then you go out there to the world you go to university you go to other institutions and you have to figure out these things for yourself yet you have not gotten the right knowledge which is those points you have not gotten to go through the teachings that you need to go through so these things need to be instilled deep into society into the education system when they are reviewing these systems they need to think about such things before we get to look at probably should we consider teaching consent in classes and also try to see what really our curriculum covers as far as sexual education is concerned let have a look at a very small clip that gets to really put consent into practicality that clearly tells us that the same way probably someone offers you something if I offer you a cup of water to right now at this moment and you say no to it the same way if you don't want to engage in sex with someone if you say no they are supposed to respect that and let me ask you this Emma people have different perceptions about consent they feel if you look me in a certain way you've consent and they feel that if you visit me at my house it means that that is consent how can we inform and educate such people with such assumptions about consent so that we are able to create awareness around this topic ok thank you so we have different types of consent and I think people need to understand this the first is express consent that you clearly state that I am willing and knowingly engaging in this act the other one is implied implied in terms of your positioning yourself your body language implied that I am giving you consent to go ahead and do whatever it is that we agree to do another one is informed consent allowing something to happen knowing fully who you are doing it with and what is going to happen so people need to learn that by the fact that you visit me by the mere fact that we hang out together it doesn't mean that anytime we find ourselves in a closed room it's automatic that we have to engage in or we have to copulate rather if I will put it that way so people have to understand that especially men and this goes out to the younger people people are growing up and also some men in our society they need to understand that women are not objects you cannot toy with women's feelings you cannot be entitled to their bodies and stuff they have a say as much as you also have a say in a relationship or in a friendship and especially matters consent men really have to respect they know and we need to bring up boys and men to accept that sometimes things have to take a certain time and that no does not mean rejection so then you do not have to forcefully want to have something immediately to justify or satisfy your ego at that moment so Sefa how do we now talk to guys about consent should we probably think about introducing consent classes probably in schools to make people really understand this is both for guys and the ladies what really consent is at what point do I feel that I have been violated and how can we now incorporate this as we try to create awareness about sexual consent because it's something that if you look or ask around you notice something that we lack in our society yes one I would say that incorporating this into their schools into their education system is very very important because we need to clean or maybe make sure that the generation that is coming after us knows and understand what this is but also we need not ignore the influence that comes with the people who are not going through the systems the people who are outside there the people who are working as CEOs managers taking advantage of the employees taking advantage of their students and I would maybe like to maybe refer to the documentary that was released I think a year or two years ago about the University of Ghana and the University of Lagos and it was terrible because those lectures were taking advantage of students thinking of these lecturers who are holding positions like seniors, pastors so we don't need to agree so unfortunate that people who are out there the people who should be guiding these kids the people who should be further figures to these kids are taking advantage of them so it needs not only to be incorporated in schools but in society in general I think things like this should be made rape and sexual assault should be put up as even if it needs they need to be capital offenses because these are serious things that need if somebody does something like that they need to act as an example the other day we saw a video in one of these Arab nations about a guy who had raped a young one and I don't know the factual part about it but the story was that the guy raped a young girl and he was shot the order was that he'd be shot in front of people and I feel like that's I'm not saying that people get killed but I'm saying that it should be a capital offense whereby people can learn from what is done to somebody else that I need to stop this or maybe I need to not do this and we also as men out there I'm very specific to men because sometimes as you say men tend to take advantage of people of their position in society I'm not saying that ladies do not do so but men are very notorious in that and we need to think in terms of sexual consent it's not implied by what somebody is wearing it's not implied by their past behaviors if somebody was a bad person or maybe he was taking part in such things a while back doesn't mean that now they are still taking part and it's also not implied by the places you go as you say if a lady comes to your place it doesn't mean that she has given you consent she just wants to spend time with you as a friend and we need to normalize such things we need to normalize things like having friends with no sexual interactions because that's how we are going to make a better future for ourselves actually the sex offence act 2006 is that a person who commits an offence of defilement with a child between the age of 16 and 18 is liable upon conviction to a term of not less than 15 years Sefa has talked about men getting to understand what consent is because someone reached out to me when I posted this topic on social media and they asked me why is it that when a lady says no as a man I'm supposed to respect it but when I say no as a guy the lady feels like I don't want I don't love I don't because it's also that part of it and Emma as a lady how would you address that two ladies watching us tonight the same we want to be respected for them to also understand when a guy sees no their no is also a no okay so we have been you know brought up to think that when somebody agrees to have sex with you they actually love you and as women we have also been brought up to think that when a man chooses to have sex with you it's actually a compliment it's not it doesn't mean he cares for you just because he is probably sexually attracted to you or just because he looks at you and thinks well I can have a good time with her so women should learn that sex and love are two different things and it narrows down to our values our attitudes towards that topic and to also understand that as women as much as okay normally I think because we live in a patriarch society normally the men are favored so the issues that affect society normally are on women more so for women to understand that when a man says no it's him also taking charge of his life and also as much as consent applies to women it also applies to men so it should be respected and wait until that time when both are ready to and also in the right age and also Patricia to note that consent for people below the age of 18 is not consent so that is referred to as defilement and a child who is below 18 cannot consent under law okay say for your final thoughts on this topic tonight what message would you like probably to share with people watching us yes first of all I would like to maybe I actually smiled when you talked about a man saying no maybe not giving consent because people take it for granted people think that as a man you should be greedy or maybe you should be out there to maybe take advantage of ladies if you get the opportunity you should pounce on it there's a menu in society feel who stands for what they believe in and when they say no it's a no so manoma eksema in any effect you need to respect that also we need to look into the fact that when you are pushing towards making this a norm respecting the art of consent we need to look into things like how many people are pushing towards it because if we say that we are pushing towards making consent a norm in society we need to make sure that at least a big percentage is towards it if few people have the ability to say no or maybe they have the ability to change whatever is going on and they do not do it it means that they are jeopardizing their efforts or the few people who are trying or many people who are trying to push to get rid of such things so we need to move together as a society when we say something we need not only say but also stand by what we say and make sure we push it forward Ahmad 30 seconds what are your final thoughts about this my final thoughts is everyone has a voice and consent should be respected from both genders and people should understand that the other person's body is theirs and that we should respect people's choices ok thank you very much for finding the time to be with us tonight and to really talk about that how live you with these when you want to visit your friends or loved ones you will call them prior to the visit and confirm their availability before showing up we often ask and wait for a go ahead before making certain decisions in life that might not be as important consent is something that every person in the society should be so intentional about and only win certain battles if we approach them with the right tools think of rape, teenage pregnancies and early marriages to earn all this we must all be deliberate about understanding and respect the term consent no means no, let us normalize consent and normalize respect thank you for being with us tonight my name is Patricia Muriwaki dojoso very good night