 This is my pump right in today's episode. We had Mari Llewellyn on the show. She's incredible. Right. I was on her podcast, went down to LA, visited her, met her team, her staff, incredible business. Her podcast is called The Pursuit of Wellness. This young woman, on her own fitness journey, going from unhealthy to healthy, turned that into an incredibly successful business. She was on Forbes' list 30 under 30. She's also the founder of Bloom Supplements. We know you're going to love this episode. We know you're going to love her. She's pretty amazing. She's real. She does a great job. So check her out and check out her podcast. All right. Today's program giveaway is the MAPS Super Bundle. That's a lot of programs. Here's how you can win it. Leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours that we drop it. Subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications. If you win, we'll let you know in the comment section. We also have a sale. MAPS, old time strength, 50% off. And MAPS, obstacle course racing, also 50% off. If you want to get either one for the sale price, just click on the link at the top of the description below. All right. Here comes the show. Listen, I came to your, your office. So, you know, I was, came on your show, walked in your office, was immediately impressed with just the way it looked. You were sending up, you were setting up some friends giving thing. You walked in so confused. I heard your voice and you were like, I'm here for a podcast. I don't know what this is. Long ass table all set up. But then I met your staff and you just a great energy, great vibe. And that's why I wanted you to come on our show. I had such a great experience, but I want to tell us about your business and you're so young and you've created this like, weren't you on the Forbes list of like 30 under 30? Yeah, or something like that. Wasn't that you? I was last year. That's the deal. So how did you start this? Let's talk about this. Okay. Well, do you want the long version or the short version? We'll start with the long one and it will speed you up if it's not good enough. Okay. If it gets boring, speed me up. Basically in 2017, I lost 90 pounds. That was kind of the catalyst of everything I've done. And prior to that, I wouldn't say I was someone who was an overachiever. I was kind of coasting through life, being okay with being average is what I would say. I wasn't really a goal setter. I didn't have big dreams for myself. I'm not quite sure why. I think I had a lot of struggles with mental health in college. I was diagnosed with BPD, which is borderline personality disorder, which is a trauma disorder that I found out later on. Don't they refer to it now CPTSD in a lot of cases? Yes. And I've learned a lot over the years because I did group therapy. I did DBT therapy. Back then my mental health really like ran my life, I would say. I was using alcohol, partying, food, like anything that sort of filled the void was something I gravitated towards. And inevitably I gained a lot of weight because I was drinking so much alcohol, eating really bad, not taking care of myself. Self-harm was a big problem for me. So that was kind of my world during college. I dropped out of college a semester before graduating and moved back home with my dad, which to me was like so humiliating, so embarrassing, didn't have a job, didn't have a degree, sort of lost. And moving home was a reality check for me. And I kind of realized I'm the problem. I think I went many years sort of blaming my situation, my family situation, other people and moving home was like, okay, this is my fault. I'm unhealthy physically, mentally. I don't have much going for me right now. I was dating my now husband, Greg, who has been bodybuilding since the womb is what he says. He says he came out with dumbbells, which I can't really imagine him any other way. By the way, he's like a real Guido. Like I met him. I was on your show and you're like, oh, you were talking. I think we were finished with the episode and I had said something like, oh, my parents were mentally and you're like, oh, my... Sure he isn't one of your cousins. Yeah, he's a tie-in. My husband's a tie-in or whatever. And then he in walks in like, you didn't have to say that. Gold chain. I think he had the white wife beater on that I always went. He had the gold chain on. I'm like, oh, I like him right away. Good company. When I interviewed you, I was like, he's going to love my husband because you guys are so similar. And yeah, he wears a wife beater like in the office. And I have to remind him like, you're about to take a meeting with someone really important. Let's put a shirt on. But yeah, he's hilarious. He's such a character. He walked around the office like this and he taught me how to weight lift. So I pretty much learned fitness from a bodybuilder, which I kind of... Which is lucky because you could have gone the shit route and just ran and starred yourself in the whole deal. Now I realize that and a lot of women start the shit route and do cardio for an hour a day and try and get smaller and smaller. And I always felt like bodybuilding was the coolest thing ever, especially female bodybuilders because I guess when I started my fitness journey, I really wanted to feel stronger inside. I wanted to have the discipline that these female bodybuilders had. I thought it was really cool. And I felt like I wanted to develop a work ethic that was pretty much just like non-existent beforehand. So I really looked up to Miss Bikini Olympia at the time. I think it was Angelica. It was her name. She was Brazilian. She was crushing it. Learned weightlifting from Greg, all the basics like, you know, leg press, overhead press, just like compound movements. And weightlifting completely changed my life, truly. I never became a cardio bunny, thank God. I just weight lifted for nine months straight and became more and more obsessed with it, taught myself how to eat properly, listened to podcasts, became obsessed with nutrition. I did keto for a long time. I loved keto. Learned the importance of protein, whole foods and kind of played around with my diet until I ended up with something that I really liked and could lose weight on. And I pretty much just focused on fitness that entire year. I ended up going back to school, getting my degree. I started working at Orange Theory Fitness at the front desk making minimum wage. I was supposed to make commission on sales, but I couldn't sell the program for some reason. I wouldn't do it. That was the issue. It wasn't like... It sucks. Yeah. The manager would be like, you take a class. And I was like, I was on my fitness journey. I was like obsessed with weightlifting. You're like, I'm into results. I don't want to do that. Yeah, I was like, I'm good. And I had like my tupperware of chicken and rice. So, yeah, weightlifting basically taught me work ethic, I say. I really feel like everything I learned in the gym, I applied to my real life. And that was how I started my business. I mean the first... Yeah. How does that go from there to starting a business? So I never posted on social media while I was losing weight. It was very much like a personal journey for me. And then November of 2017, I had this before and after photo that I was really proud of. I had 900 followers and I was like, okay, I'm really nervous, but I want to show my hard work. So I put this before and after photo up. And this was the time on social media where things kind of could go viral organically. And this photo went, popped off way more than I expected. Everyone who followed me was excited about it. Other fitness pages were reposting it, much larger pages. And it kind of just blew up. And I remember my phone just like exploding with DMs and comments and follows. And I'd never experienced anything like that. I wasn't an avid social media user. And that post was the start of my community building. So I started gaining a lot of followers. I had a lot of DMs asking for workout programs, products. What did I use? What did I do? So it quite organically became my career because I was obsessed with it. I loved it. I felt like I had this secret that I wanted to share with other women. And I felt like there wasn't many people out there speaking candidly about mental health and fitness. I think it was sort of an airbrush time on Instagram. It was a lot of like abs. And I've kind of always looked this way and everything was sort of perfect. And I was sharing the ups, the downs, everything I was going through. My first ever product was a workout guide. I went to Barnes & Noble and wrote up everything I did, you know, every day, shoulders, legs, whatever, sold it for $5. So people would DM me, hey, I want your workout plan. I would email it to them and they would PayPal me $5. That's how you did it. It was a manual system. And my husband was helping me. So we'd be on our phones all day, just manually emailing people. Resigned a lot right out the gates. Wow. I still think the PDF business is genius because you have no overhead. It's just your knowledge on a PDF. And that's it. It exists forever. Yeah. So figured out how to have a website and automate the whole thing. Sold a lot of guides. We had workout guides, one, two, three and four and nutrition plans. And that was how we started saving up capital to be able to invest in our first physical product, which was a resistance band, which were all the rage back then, but they were all plastic and they would like roll up on your legs, whatever. So we created a fabric resistance band. We worked with a manufacturer in Pakistan very closely. We ended up having a Maori wing in the manufacturer because we were basically funding this guy to have a machine to create these bands. Anyway, the first 900 we ever ordered, we hand packed and shipped out of my dad's house. Wow. And I wrote a note in every single one. So it was very labor intensive. I was at the mail office every day sending out these bands. But it was the start of everything. We did everything ourselves, customer service, website, photography. And ultimately figured out that we needed a warehouse and from there kept saving up the money and started sampling for Bloom Nutrition in 2018. Wow. That's awesome. So you can feel it by the way. So we've met a lot of very successful people and I don't know, there's a different feeling when you can tell someone's driven by something that's authentic. You had that when I came in. I could tell through your staff. That's usually how you could tell by the people that they're surrounded by and so this makes perfect sense. You were driven by your own. I mean, you had a personal experience that was life changing. So it felt very personal. I have lots of questions about the business because I'm fascinated by that part. But before I even get to that, I want to ask about your journey into weightlifting. It seems like you pretty much adopted it right away. There was no resistance to it. You weren't attracted to the cardio side. Is that all from the influence of your husband or did you kind of do your own research and were there times during that process where you wanted to quit and didn't believe in it or was it all just men? As soon as I started hitting the weights, the results came on. I never looked back. I mean, what was it like? It's a good question. I mean, I will say I was pretty intimidated to get in the gym because although I wanted to, I felt insecure in the way I looked. I felt like I didn't know what to do. So I will say I had that gym intimidation factor but I definitely admired my husband. I mean, I thought he was really cool. He was at the gym twice a day, meal prepping. I'd never seen someone with that amount of discipline and passion for thinness. So I was definitely inspired by that. And I always wanted muscle from the beginning. I felt like it was the best way of physically showing that you're a hard worker if that makes sense. Yeah. Because I knew, I guess from listening to podcasts and talking to Greg, I had an understanding of how difficult it is to build muscle. So I felt like any woman who had muscle on their body was clearly disciplined and I kind of wanted that work ethic to show on the outside. So yeah, I think I did have a pretty like healthy introduction to weightlifting and I feel really lucky in that way. And then what about the results? Did you feel like they came on pretty fast? Like were you like noticing change right away or did you feel like, okay, I got to trust the process. I'm gonna take some time. Like what did that look like? Up and down. I feel like at the very beginning, I pretty much had never stepped in a gym. So I had the newbie gains that everyone talks about. Like I'd never really moved my body in that way before and when you go from hardly moving to lifting a 50 pound dumbbell or whatever it is, it's like pretty hard. Everything was pretty hard for me at the beginning. So I felt like the results were pretty quick. Within the first month and I was losing weight. I'd say pretty quickly because I was so focused and I was lucky that I got to go live with my dad and really focus on this one thing. And I think it was fitness that made me feel like I had control again, but I also coupled it with the food. I think diet was really, really important as well. And did you, when you did that, did you just cut a bunch of calories or do you feel like you just shifted from, I was eating a lot of this kind of processed garbage and now I'm going to feed, nourish my body. And did you feel like you were like restricting a lot or did you feel satisfied as far as how much you were eating? So I always give this example. My breakfast before my fitness journey was a muffin that was like that big. I haven't had a muffin in say five years at this point. This big pumpkin or blueberry and an iced coffee this big with milk and sugar. And that was like my go-to. So the first switch I made was from that to basically imitating Greg's breakfast, which was like a bowl of oatmeal, blueberries, four or five eggs, bacon. It was massive. Like it was like a bodybuilder breakfast. I was so proud of it. And I remember FaceTiming him and showing him. Was it hard for you to eat all that at first? It was, but I was like, this is what I have to do. And I remember FaceTiming him and him being like, love it, love the effort, maybe not as much. Because he's like a 250 pound bodybuilder. And I was like, you know, but I had good intentions. And I think what I learned from that was the swapping of a highly processed food to a whole nutrient dense. I love that you did that because that's not normal. That is what somebody would do is they look at this big muffin iced coffee and they go, oh, now I'm going to have like three egg whites. Or I'll skip it. Or I'll skip it. Or I'll eat some berries and that's it. And they go from this high calorie process. Doesn't even seem like calories was something you're factoring at this point either. Not really. And it never has been for me. I've always been really ingredient focused. I really love nutrition. I think because of my mental health, that was a big factor for me. So what was driving you more than the way you looked was the mental part and how you felt? Yeah, I would say so. Because I had this mood disorder and I felt like I was very up and down. I came off of the SSRIs I was on. I sort of started to realize that the muffin and the coffee were an initial spike of sugar and caffeine in the morning was really not helping me with this mood control. And right away when I switched to whole nutrient dense foods, I felt like my blood sugar was more even. Like I was more in control and happier day to day. So did you come off of the medication before you started the fitness journey? Sort of like in conjunction. At the same time. I mean, I'm not recommending this, I'm not a doctor, but I clean like cold turkey came off of everything. Oh wow, was that hard? Yeah. It was really hard and really bizarre symptoms. So you were on an SSRI? I was on a lot. Okay. I was on anti-anxiety, antidepressant, antipsychotic, looking back, I mean, they definitely put me on way too much. Oh my gosh. And you went off all of them at the same time. Yeah. Which no doctor would ever recommend. No. So tell me about the symptoms and what that was like. You, when you're on that much medication, you kind of live life numb. I didn't really have any grip on reality. No highs, no lows, everything was sort of middle ground. And the problem with that for me was I never really got a grasp on how bad everything was. Sure. You know, like I was failing every class in college, I was self-harming, I'm drinking, and nothing really hits you. Like you don't really have this sense of, oh shit, like I need to fix this. So when I moved home, I kind of was like, something's wrong. Like I don't have my personality. I don't have a grip on reality. I need to come off of this stuff. So I have a little bit of an extreme personality. So I just came off all of it. And coming off of it, I developed some weird habits or like bad habits that I'd never had before. So the one that I talk about that I honestly hate talking about because it's not who I am, but I randomly had an urge to shoplift. I've never shoplifted in my life. I know. No, I'm serious. I'm sorry to laugh. That's just kind of funny. It is crazy. Random scientific. I want to steal some shit now. Just randomly abandon it. Were you successful? Did you do a good job? No, I was so bad at it. I was so bad at it. And I've been such a rule follower as a child. Like I was a shy, kind child would never consider shoplifting. Now I like shudder at the thought of it. But all of a sudden, I like had the urge to shoplift. So I would go in places and try things on and leave them on and leave. And then one day I got caught actually. Yeah. It's really weird for me to think about because it feels like a different reality. Like I was in a bubble kind of. And then after the fact, like a year later, I was like, let me look into that because that was like the weirdest thing that I've ever done. And it turns out, apparently that happens sometimes when you come off of this medication that you'll have urges like that. Yeah. Is it like just in general, like a rebellious urge that could be manifest in different ways? It wasn't even that I really wanted the stuff. Yeah. The theory behind what you're talking about because I've read about this is that your brain is seeking out, the way that they'll explain it, dopamine, it's seeking out novelty. And so typically it'll go to a place where you wouldn't necessarily go. So it creates that feeling within you. So it's not like you, like if you always shoplifted, that's not where you would have gone. You would have done something else that would have been extreme for you. And so it produced that. Fascinating. It produced that feeling in your brain and then that creates that loop. Wow. And so people can develop other addictions. How busted did you get? So you got caught. Yeah, they pulled me downstairs in a room and I was supposed to pick up my dad from the train station and I remember just panicking. So you look like, I mean, because you look like, you don't look like someone that needs a shoplift. No. I mean, well. Any gambling habits really? Yeah. Anything else? I will say I did not have money back then and I did never expected to be a successful person. So back then I was very low on money. No gambling. I wouldn't even know where to begin with that. What did you do? What were you taking? Sure. It was just clothes. And then so they pull you in the office and you're like, oh, shit. I kind of actually was honest with them and explain what was going on. And I was like, I have BPD. I was on all this medication. I'm no longer on it. I'm so sorry. This is never going to happen again. And that just like kind of snapped me out of it. It was like a two month thing. But I like to reference that because it was one of the crazier symptoms of coming off of that medication. Wow. It took a long time to get it out of my system. Now, when you're starting to feel these, by the way, I really appreciate your candor with talking about this. There's a lot of people who, you know, definitely would have told that story. Yeah, yeah, you know, but that's great. I appreciate your candor. It helps a lot of people. So when you're feeling these symptoms and you're starting to work out, are you starting to use like, okay, I'm feeling kind of crappy. I'm going to exercise. Or so it became like, okay, this is a better way of handling some of these symptoms. Did that help with that, I guess that relationship with exercise? 100%. I felt like my main motivator for exercise and eating well was I'm going to feel so much better after this. So even if the workout wasn't perfect, I just kind of had these like rules for myself every day. I'd drink a gallon of water a day. I'd hit. So I was using fitness pal back then actually. I wasn't calorie obsessed necessarily, but I just wanted to like know how much I was consuming. And it taught me about food because before my fitness journey, I didn't know what a protein fat or carb were. Honestly, I didn't know what macros were. So that really taught me a lot about what is in food. And then the exercise for me was, I just felt so different afterwards. It was such an endorphin rush for me. I think it was the first time finding something healthy that made me feel better because I was so reliant before on relationships, alcohol, food, you know, like I pretty much spent my college career like finding things to numb the pain. And I felt like I was finally facing it head-on. You know, what's really interesting about your story is that you came from an incredibly challenging place, both physically, what's going on with you, mentally, what's going on with you, but your introduction into your pursuit of becoming healthier was a very smart, healthy, right approach that most people don't do. That doesn't happen very often. Usually they come to that after they've gone here, they're really doing it wrong. Yes, if you spun your wheels, I mean, just a fact that you were that overweight, yet the things that really kept you coming back was what it did for you mentally is something that we as coaches, I mean, God, that was, you were always trying to, because almost everyone comes to the gym and it's, I got to get this 90 pounds off. I hate the way I look. I don't want to look like this or my doctor said something and they're obsessed with the scale and the way they look so much that they miss all the other great benefits of what's going on with their... In fact, they sacrifice and compromise their mental health for the mirror. No, you guys are right. I never thought about it that way. And I do credit Greg a lot for that. I think he was a good coach for me if you want to call him that back then. And I definitely was aware of the scale, but I think my life was just in such shambles that I... I just want to feel better. I just wanted to feel better and I wanted to be a better person. Like I really wanted to be... I wanted to reach my full potential and I didn't really know what this journey was going to end up being. But I was like, if I dedicate myself to something every single day and keep my own promises every single day, something good is going to happen from this. And it like changed my whole life. So Greg is dating you even before you start this journey? Yeah, he's seen me through everything. Okay. Tell me what is it that you think he saw in you early on? Hmm. I wonder this sometimes. I mean... I mean amazing, right? That he's been there from before and now afterwards. Hence probably why you married the man. Like you know what I'm saying? He speaks probably volumes about his character. I'm just curious of if you were basically harming yourself this much. You're probably in what you would consider the worst part of your life, right? Yeah. That this man saw something in you and was attracted to that and then stuck with you all the way through it. Have you ever talked about it? We have. I mean we went to high school together technically but we didn't know each other and ended up at the same college. And when we met, he was really nervous of me. I don't know why. He's such a like big bold guy but when you get to know him he's actually a little bit shy. So he was kind of scared of me. And then we ended up at the same Halloween party. He like fell through a table. That's a whole other story. What? He was dancing on a table, you know? And he broke the table and fell through it and a piece of wood stabbed him in the peck. Oh, wow. They used to call him one peck Levec. Bro, you know what's so good about it? We always talk about how guys get... I love when it works perfectly. I can't like this guy anymore. He's gonna stick forever. So he was such a character and I remember he like made me pancakes that night and I was like, okay. He wasn't even really my type at the time. Like all the girls at the sorority were like, wow is it with Greg? He's so jacked. And I was like, I don't know. It's kind of weird. Like he's at the gym twice a day. I don't know what he's doing. I don't know. I feel like I still was me back then. You know, I didn't have the work ethic necessarily and I wouldn't say he did either. He was very committed to fitness, but both of us were horrible at school. Like both of us were a mess when it came to school. He was fired from multiple internships. Like the guy cannot work for anyone except himself. I cannot imagine him doing anything except what we do now. So he really struggled in regular jobs. I struggled with school, but I think we both, we're both kind of crazy. Like if you know us as a couple, we're both very spontaneous, but very type A at the same time, like very routine focused. I can't imagine either of us doing anything else and we're together the perfect team because he's really strong as a leader, loves marketing, loves numbers. I'm really strong with branding and community. So together we kind of had the perfect skill sets. And I don't know. We stuck it out. I mean, we definitely had our ups and downs. We had moments where we were apart for like six months at a time, but ultimately came back together. And I think my fitness journey and having him guide me through that was such an important part of our relationship, you know? Shared experience. Shared experience. We went through it together. And then the business starting that together was insane. Like it's insane that I get to work with him every single day. Wow. So because people would, I mean, it's commonly said, don't work with your spouse or don't work with your boyfriend or girlfriend. It's like a recipe for disaster. Did you guys work well together? We work very well together. It has its challenges. I'm not going to lie. Like this business is our whole life. It's like our child. It's all we talk about. And we have to be very intentional to not go down a rabbit hole of talking about every detail of our business at dinner time. I mean, it's, you know, it's all consuming. And we definitely have had disagreements on certain things. But at the end of the day, I respect and admire him so much. And I feel like he's doing exactly what he's supposed to be doing. And I feel like I'm doing exactly what I'm supposed to be doing. And as the business has grown, I mean, at the beginning, it was just us two doing everything together. We were in the house all day working on this business, like switching off doing customer service, which is the worst part about having a business. If you do it yourself. Oh my God. I mean, you don't want to see like mean things coming in about your own. You know what I mean? So what do you mean you don't like it? Yeah, to get a bunch of them. Yeah. We filtered ourselves from that really early. Oh my God. It's been like, well, how many years have my sister's been running customer service side? Like eight, seven, eight years. So almost as soon as we started to get any sort of customer service stuff, it's like, yeah, I don't want to read that stuff every day. No filter that. No. So now you just, now your podcast is new. You just started that recently. Whose idea was that? Was that yours? Mine. Okay. And I started it January of this year. What was the idea behind it? Because you have a large female audience. I mean, I think I'm accurately assuming they connect with you because of your authenticity and you talk about your own journey and it sounds very genuine. You come across very genuinely wanting to help people. And there's not a lot of young women in the space that come across that way. You know, look, I'm hot. That's pretty much it. And it's fake and it's like, you know, and it's so annoying, you know, from our perspective, we're obviously a lot older. So it's easy for us to see, but, but I have a teenage daughter and I see some of these influencers and I think they connect to you differently because of your authenticity. It's very gimmicky usually. Yeah. And it's just crazy. Terrible information. But why the podcast? What made you want to do a podcast? So I felt like I kind of exhausted Instagram and I was getting frustrated with the short form content and it was getting shorter and shorter and shorter and shorter and shorter from 2017 to 2022. It was like, there's not much you can say in a 30 second story or a reel and people don't want to watch it anyway. And I felt like I always had a lot more to say and share. And I also love connecting with people. And I just kind of felt like I was hitting a brick wall with social media and TikTok. I mean, I don't know, I'm 29. It's like, it's a lot for me. I was like, I could go down there. I mean, it's a whole other world. It's a lot. And I did a couple of guesting opportunities on other podcasts and had these amazing conversations and felt like I had this long form opportunity to tell my story and hear from other people and hear other perspectives. And I was like, this is cool. This feels like a value add to social media or the world of content. And I love listening to podcasts myself. And I'm definitely still, I think what I love about wellness and fitness is there's always more to learn. I'm never done evolving, you know? And even after losing 90 pounds, I then became obsessed even further with wellness. Well, how can I improve my longevity? There's always more. So I really wanted an opportunity to bring on amazing people. Yeah, so as a very, so do you pick guests based off of like, well, I want to know about this and this is a great way to get them to talk to me. 100%. Yeah. I go into it having my own questions I want answered and hoping that that will apply to the audience and it seems to work really well. I find that the best interviews I do are the ones that I genuinely would want to talk to the person anyway. Totally. 100%. And the growth of your show has been crazy, right? Because you started in January. Yeah. And I think you posted some Spotify stats that you were like, you crossed you're like in the top something. I was like number four for 42 weeks, I think it was. No, insane. I never anticipated that. I think going into it, I knew it would be a hustle. Just hearing from other people who have podcasts, it's a lot of work. I mean, you guys upload what, five days a week? I would, I'm not sure how you do that because we do two sometimes a week and I feel like I'm drowning. So I went into it being like, okay, I'm committing to this. I'm doing at least one a week this entire year. I think Alex Hormozzi has this stat that he talks about that 90% of people drop off after one episode. Yeah. Have you guys seen that? Yeah, and then the rest don't make it past eight. Exactly. So I was like, if I can just stick to this the whole year, then I'm already doing better than most people. So that was my mindset going into it. And then also not being afraid of controversy. I think a lot of people now online are really scared to say how they feel about anything. Not that I should be giving opinions on politics or I'm not giving my opinion on absolutely everything, but I do have thoughts about diet and exercise and from my own personal experience. So I haven't been afraid to say what I think and also bring on people who I don't agree with 100% of the time. I had Paul Saladino on, liver king. I've had some really opinionated people on and I think as a female that was new as well. I don't see a lot of women talking to those characters. I don't know if there's truth to this, but it's widely believed that so female consumers or audience or followers are great because they're the best consumers. So we know this. If you look at most markets, the women are their consumers and men are second. So everybody knows this. But then there's also this kind of understanding that you have to be very careful because if you say the wrong thing and you have a large female audience, they'll turn on you and you get canceled and oh my God you offended me and I can't believe you said that. And so that's, it seems that way, what you're saying is true. Like it seems like the more controversial shit is said by guys and that women tend to, now have you found that your audience sticks around? Like have you said anything that pissed people off but they stick around or like, how's that battle within yourself? I've had to just come to terms with the fact that I'm always going to be upsetting someone. And I find that when an episode is really well, that's when I get feedback. That's when I know a lot of people are listening when I start seeing people getting mad because if I do an hour and 30 minute episode, something in there is going to upset someone. So especially on Instagram when I post a reel, like a compilation of the whole conversation, people will pull parts out and get really upset. Like I just had my integrative health practitioner, got to say that title correctly, on my show. And she's of the belief that you should not be heating up olive oil, avocado oil. You should only use butter, tallow and ghee. And that was something that I pulled from the episode. And certain people get really, really upset about things like that because they feel like you're coming for the way they live their life. I'm pretty much unaffected by it at this point. I've gotten really used to people getting upset, especially about food. Isn't that weird? So upset about food. It's like religion. Yeah. People get so upset. And then the whole vegan carnivore debate, really sensitive. I just think everyone has their own experience. And, you know, I think the food part, but I've just gotten used to it honestly. Who are the worst vegans? Yeah, vegans don't like me. They use that clip right there. Whenever I do a Q&A, it's like, do you hate vegans? Really? I hate vegans. I've sat down with many vegan people and listened to their perspective. It's not how I live my life. They can be the most like just crazy when it comes to like attacking. Yeah. I mean, they all could be. I think every subset has it because it is. It's very dogmatic. It's very much so. Like religion where people are about their food. So heaven forbid you tell me that this is not good or good for me. So you said that this, so this business is, we have friends like this in the space where husband and wife or partners work together. And it's all consuming. And you can see it. You can see that that's their whole life. That's all they do. And, you know, business is good, especially if there's meaning and purpose behind it. But, you know, we're of the belief that it's no substitute for things like family and relationships. In all fair, we're talking about how you were, you and your husband are talking about having a baby. So what's that discussion like because you're so busy with work. You're both working like crazy. First off, do you have any idea of how busy having a baby is or how much work is involved? Like, what's that discussion like? Because that's going to change everything. I know. I mean, you guys tell me. I think I'm more aware than he is. Like I try and tell him like, just so you know, it's going to be really crazy. He's like, I don't know. I think we can make it work. I mean, I watch a lot of family content. When I watch YouTube, I watch parents because I want to learn. And I think we're just of the mindset that there's never a perfect time. You know, like for years and years, we're like, we'll wait until we're at a good point. And I'm like, when is a good point? And also, I know some people don't like the idea that women have pressure when they're, you know, at a certain age to have a baby. But like, I do want to have a baby when I'm primed to. I'm 29. I would rather not get into my late 30s and then have a baby. Like I would like to have one now where I feel like I'm healthy and I'm ready. So, I think I'm actually in a good place now to do that. Obviously, I have the podcast. That's not going anywhere. We have a very large team for Bloom now. So we're not, I'm not as in the weeds every single day. So I think I would be able to manage it. And I've also been putting it out there for so long that I feel like when I find I do get pregnant and have a baby, everyone will just be like, okay. Of course. She's been talking about this. Yeah. So yeah, we're in our baby making error right now. Oh, wow. That's awesome. Talk to me about scaling Bloom, that process for you. When it started to get traction, you said you have a large staff. So when did you start hiring, delegating? Have you relieved yourself from it? Are you still considered the CEO or have you hired someone else to run it? Like what's that all been like? Greg is the CEO. So he pretty much manages the whole team. The very first hire we ever made was 2019. We hired a gal for customer service. Hired her in the parking lot of the target, which is crazy because now we're in target. It was always my goal to be in target. Now we are. Wait in the parking lot. You just met someone? Yeah. No, no, no. We knew her. We knew her. But we like had the interview. Looking for work. No. We knew her. And she is still with us. She's an angel. Perfect for customer service. So nice. So friendly. Then from there, we kind of just kept seeing, okay, what do we need? Graphic designer. Maybe we need a creative director. Maybe we need a head of growth. And kind of just kept slowly adding. For the first two, three years, we literally had less than five people. And now we have close to a hundred. Wow. Which is wild. I was like, I would say a majority of our team. So I'd say 95% of our team is female. Pretty much all of them are under the age of 30, with the exception of like two to three people. We're definitely like. Now is that because you don't like guys? Like a giant story. It's funny in our office, all the men sit upstairs in the back. Three of them. This is so sexist. They're in their own area. When I do tours, I'm like, you know, I really don't know what they're doing up there. Honestly. I'm assuming because a lot of them are probably followers. High-five. Or they stink. Men tend to stink. No, no. I don't mean that. I mean the women you hire, probably because they, a lot of them. Yeah. A lot of them. Also, we have a very Gen Z millennial audience. And it just makes sense for the people who work for us to be thinking like the customer. Sure. And a lot of them are creative. So we kind of think of ourselves as a media company because we're so influencer and content focused. So I mean, it's been really cool to hire young people and see them blossom. I always give the example. We have our influencer manager, Jillian came to us as an intern from college. And now she manages about 30 girls under her. And she has like, I think the most extensive influencer program in the entire supplement industry. Wow. It's wild. We have a, we have a very intense TikTok program. And that's partially organic, partially because we have a great marketing team. We just found out that we are officially the number one selling greens of 2023. Wow. Yes. Wow. Yes. Greg told me that this morning. Congratulations. Thank you. That's a big hitter space. Yeah. That's a big space. Yeah. So as a young, as a young woman entrepreneur, also a consumer initially, what do you, when you look at the health and fitness space, what do you see that you think is wrong with it for people like you? Because the people that are most, in my opinion, most negatively, a lot of people get negatively affected by the crap that's in fitness and health, social media. Okay. There's a lot of bad information that's out there, but the people who tend to, who are getting the worst of it are young women in our opinion, because they're told they need to look a particular way. They're not good enough. They tend to be the ones that get hit with the most bullshit ads and extreme diets. When we talk to people, it typically is the young women where we're like, oh my God, like we got to really help this person out. And you're, that's you, not in the sense that you did those things, but you're in that demographic, you're in the space, you're obviously leading in the space. When you look at it, what do you think is, what are they doing wrong? Like, how do you talk to your audience or how do you help bolster these girls so that they don't get messed up? I know. And it shifted a lot since 2017. I feel like now the main problem is TikTok. And I know you have young girls. I mean, it's crazy seeing teenagers like posting their bodies and they're so tiny and grown women are like comparing themselves to these girls. And there's these like what I eat in a day videos. And it's so, there's just so much information. And rather than having like, you know, magazines that we would compare ourselves to, I feel like with TikTok, it's just showing you person after person after person after person after person who's shredded or lean or whatever it may be. And a lot of times they haven't even gone through puberty yet, which is so misleading and confusing. And I think you're right. It's like an emotional cell, you know, for a lot of these companies, they're going for girls who don't feel good about themselves. I mean, I've even seen my own photo used to sell fat loss products I have no association with. Obviously like keto pills and crazy things. It's an easy sell. And I think that goes for makeup and anything that makes you feel better about yourself. So I think showing, I like talking about food in a way where we're ingredient focused. That's a big thing for me. And not calorie focused. And I always say on my podcast, if anything, I probably eat more calories than a normal person because I'm using tallow. I'm using very like calorie dense. You also lift weights. Your metabolism is fast. Yeah. You talk about this. Exactly. And I think just having honesty in that way and being really upfront to is very helpful. I think there's a lot of smoke and mirrors online. Yeah. Do you have to go through your algorithm yourself and make sure that you don't get that crap in there or? It's in there. Yeah. It's definitely in there. I mean, I just don't think I'm as affected by it. I think when I've been through a weight loss journey and I'm very aware of how things work, you know, and if I wanted to lose weight tomorrow, I could start and I know exactly what to do. So that's about that for me. And I feel like I'm lucky that I have that knowledge. I think the big problem is that so many people online and in America in general just don't have the knowledge and they don't understand how fat loss works. If that makes sense. They've been sold the totally the wrong way. Yes. And it's caused a lot of problems, a lot of confusion. And you have a lot of young girls who lose their period because they're eating too little. They're afraid of lifting weights because it's going to make them bigger. Yeah. They think. And they'll follow anything that causes some kind of instant, you know, a few pound weight loss, whether it's a cleanse or a detox or whatever you want to label it. So it's kind of a scary plan. I mean, I have, like I said, I have a teenage daughter and then I have a one year old who, you know, will be a teenager one day. And so like it's personal for me. I could see a lot of this. Do you think about that for your future? Oh my gosh. 100%. I mean, when I was growing up, I didn't have TikTok or Instagram. And I'm so grateful that I didn't because it looks, I mean, from what I could see, I would be terrified for my kid to be on TikTok. And I would like try to manage what they were looking at, but I don't even know how you would go about that. It's terrifying for sure. But I feel like you're in a good position because you can educate them the right way and you can kind of control their knowledge on that. Yeah. Do you and your staff talk about this when you guys put out content? Like, look, we want to do it like this, not like this. And is that ever a struggle? Because doing it the wrong way sells. I mean, let's be honest, doing it the wrong way is how you get the algorithm to pick you up and go viral. It's an easy way to sell products. We've definitely had a conversation about that. And it's tough because there's only so much control with the internet, it's like the Wild West. So if this product gets in someone's hands and they decide to promote it the way they want to, I don't love that. You know, I remember like a year ago seeing a video that I was like, that does not represent our brand. Like, that's not what we're about. And it's funny because when we first launched Bloom, it was kind of like Mari Supplement Company. Like people only knew of the product if they knew of me and they knew of my story. And I felt like I was the best representation of the brand because it came from me. The reason I called it Bloom was because I wanted it to be about becoming the best version of you. But now the brand has grown so much that people often don't even know who I am. They just know the brand itself, which is really cool. That was the goal. But inevitably I, you know, I saw content a year ago where I was like, that is not what I want this to be about. That's not what the brand's about. Was it content you guys produced? No. It was like someone who had the product and we're doing it their own way. Really? Yeah. So when we go about finding creators and talking about the type of content we want, we always go back to the core values of the brand and what we want, you know, the way for it to come across because I'd never want to be a part of that, of the fitness industry in that way. What was the process of working with Target and getting in on that? Did they contact you? Did you contact them? No. We like knocked their door down. Really? The first call we had with them was probably two, three years ago. And I remember we were in a WeWork because we didn't even have our own office then and got on the call with the buyer for that department. So there's a buyer for each department in Target. So you've got like supplements and vitamins. You've got ready to drink, you know. I didn't realize it was that way. So each buyer of the department is looking for the best new products to bring in. And the guy got on and he was like, I've tried greens and superfoods in my department before it never works. Like, I have no interest. And he basically laughed at us and left. We were like, okay, good start. Good start. Let's try this again. Did another call. Kept sending the numbers because our numbers were what got people to pay attention to us because on the outside, Greg and I are both young. I think a lot of people doubted us at the beginning. And that was a thing we kept running into. Like, you know, we're in our 20s. A lot of the other people in this industry are older. They're always men in suits. You know, they're not often... They don't look like me and Greg. So we had a lot of doubt at the beginning. Kept getting on the phone, kept showing our numbers and they said, okay, we'll let you have the bottom shelf, five products and we'll try it in, you know, 200 stores and see how it goes. And we were like, perfect. And it was the numbers that got you that. Look at our conversions. Look what we're... Yeah. And they hadn't seen that before. So they're like, okay, we'll try it. Sold out everywhere. Right away. Yeah. And we really used our social media and marketing to send people. We were like, go look for us. So you told them specifically, hey guys, we're in Target. We need your support so that they continue to carry our product. Go over there and buy some. Wow. And we put money behind our marketing. So Greg, you know, does all the Facebook ads and Google marketing and he put money behind the fact that we were in Target because for us it was very validating to be put in a store like that. You know, this was our first retail store and it worked. People were running there like crazy to get the product. So now we've got like a proper end cap display. So it's not there right now. It will be for new years. But a couple of months ago when you walked into Target and you were in the supplement section, it was the first thing you saw was a big end cap display with the product all over it, which is so crazy for me to see. But it hasn't been easy because I think for a lot of retailers, this concept of a new D2C online product is quite new, you know, or an influencer product because they're kind of used to, especially in the supplement section, their best selling products were like Flonase. So I think we actually beat them. You beat Flonase. Yeah. Wow. For one, we were... Okay, I'm going to mess this up. This is like Greg's sentence, but the top selling skew for that department in history for one month. Wow. Which was crazy. Wow, that's awesome. I just think the supplement section of Target hasn't had a lot of innovation in a very long time. I don't think of supplements in Target. Exactly. I think of like generic like vitamin C, vitamin D, vitamin E, vitamin K of supplements. Yeah. It's not somewhere you'd go for a health supplement. So I think for them, it was very new and scary. And then we were like, okay, we got a full send on this to show them that we can do it. Now, did that create a negotiating opportunity for you guys to negotiate the profits, margins, things like that? Or it is what it is with Target. It's like, we give you this, this is how it works and you don't have a choice. It kind of is what it is, but it gave us leverage to ask for end cap displays, for example, and more marketing, which is so funny because as a consumer, you never think about that. You're like, oh yeah, they've just decided that that product's on the end cap. There's like so much that goes into it. A lot of planning, right? Yeah. And I'm very involved in the design of the end cap, which I really enjoy. Oh, that's cool. Which is really cool. But yeah, we've been to Minneapolis a couple of times to talk to the Target team. It's an operation. But I like Target. I feel like they are at the forefront of trying new things. A lot of retailers are really stuck in their ways because they've been doing it for so long. I feel like Target's really pushing the envelope in that way. I know you say Greg is more the numbers guy, but I'm so curious to... If you don't know the exact number, is it just an idea of how this is? Because I know that in the supplement space, the margins are already very slim, right? I mean, a really good supplement company is making 10 to 20% tops like the profit margins, right? Now, how much less is that for you when it runs through Target in comparison, say they buy straight from your Instagram or straight from your website? Like, how different is it for you guys? That's a good question. And I have no idea what the answer is. I would like to know that as well. But I do think... So Amazon is a big channel for us. Amazon is a big one. There's another one that cuts into the profits quite a bit too. A bit. And I think that scared us at the beginning, but then you realize how much you can scale when you go via Amazon and retailers and you just become far more widely known. So it ends up being worth it. I mean, our Shopify used to be our main channel. That was the only thing that anyone ever really went to and now it's probably our least used. Are you looking to eventually sell Bloom to build it, to sell it to another company? Is there an exit plan? Possibly. Yeah, we've dabbled with it. I mean, at the beginning, a lot of people get into business now with the plan to sell, which I think is really odd because... That's an actual business strategy. I know. And I find that weird. I guess my experience of starting a business was it's like my child. And even when I even have a hard time like handing it off, you know, in terms of our team, when they started taking over, I had a hard time with it. I had like a grieving period where I wasn't in the weeds every day because I was like, this is my baby. So I never... We never thought about that as a plan, but now I think it would make sense to partner up with someone else and potentially. We've actually never even taken an investment alone. Oh, really? So you guys are 100% owners? 100% owners, 100% self-funded from the beginning, which is not common. No, it's not. And it's really difficult to go from, okay, we're selling this on social media and our direct website, and then all of a sudden leap to, we can actually fulfill enough to like target, something like that. Was that... Just take all your savings and just... Yeah, what was that jump from there? Because that's, a lot of times we get somebody who has this, like someone has a big dream one day, I want to be in Target too, and supplements, and they think, oh, I'm gonna just start selling this product, and then hopefully Target will pick it up. It's like, then there's the other part of, Target won't even mess with you unless you can fulfill their stores, which fulfillment from a small startup in the supplement space, which has small margins already, is a massive leap. So tell me how that... With no investors. Yeah, and yeah, no capital from somebody else. How did that happen? I wish I had Greg and Leo with me, because they were really in the weeds with that, but that, you're right. Like that is the biggest hurdle. And that's Target's number one question is, what does your manufacturing capability look like? So by the time we were ready for it, we already had three different manufacturers. Like at the beginning, we just had one. To be honest, when we first called them, we probably weren't ready to be in there. So it's perfect that it happened when it did, because now we do have the capability to do that. Yeah. You also did this through COVID. So COVID was actually very helpful for us. Oh, interesting. We launched Greens right before COVID. And I launched Greens because I just wanted the product. Like this wasn't planned in any way. I just simply wanted a Greens powder that was good for my gut health and bloating. And then the pandemic hit. And we were, I would have considered us more of a gym brand before COVID. We had protein pre-workout. That was like our main thing, EAAs, which is funny to think about now. And we promoted it mostly with like gym content, me and the gym. I always kind of envisioned it that way because I was such a gym rat back then. And then COVID hit and I was like, okay, I think we need to pivot and really focus on this Greens powder because it does have immunity benefits. So I started doing more home workouts and showing recipes and basically pivoted the whole business towards wellness rather than fitness. Wow. And that resonated with people. We sold out of our first like five orders of Greens, mostly because we couldn't afford to keep a nothing stock because it's so expensive. All of our money was in this product. And it's been, all of our money has been in this business from the beginning, which is obviously like stressful. Because people are like, oh, you're rolling in money. You're like, we put everything back in. Yeah, no, we're asset, asset rich. Not actually rich. No, but it, I think it honestly was helpful because it's sort of like a, you need to survive situation. Like we had to put everything into this business and make it work because we didn't have another option. So yeah, know that COVID really helped because people really started focusing on their inner health and Greens just took off around that time. Oh wow. That's so awesome. What have been your biggest challenges with? Yeah, I want to know all the mistakes that you made. Like where did you screw up? Because obviously right now the audience is listening and they're like, man, she just home run, home run, home run. But I know that's never how it is. Like there's always, like when you look back, what are some of the dumbest things you did or the things that you made a big miss on, you think? Definitely some dumb things were done. Sorry, I'm sick. So if I sound crazy, that's why. I launched a hoodie, like a Mari fitness hoodie before bloom. And I was so excited about it. We launched it right before Christmas. I sold like a thousand units of a size that I didn't even have. Like I listed like extra small, small, medium. I had all these sizes and somehow sold a thousand of a size I didn't have. And it was just me and Greg at the time. So we had no idea how to handle that. So we literally emailed every single person. We didn't celebrate Christmas. We were just on our laptops the whole time. Had to figure out what to do with those a thousand orders. So that's one mistake. Did you refund everybody? Yeah, of course. Of course. All we were like, all we can send you this size. So we let people decide, which obviously created like weeks of customer service. Sorry. Sorry. I don't have your size. I'll send you another size. Maybe motivate you to get into it. I don't know. Oh, this one. I couldn't get away with that. Maybe you guys could. We printed a label for a protein. Like we had these big tubs of protein that came and it was done. Like these were ready to ship and it came and there was like a milkshake on the front, like a product image, a flavor image. And it had a straw coming out of the glass that wasn't actually there. It was just gloss. So it was an invisible straw coming out of the cup. So it was a label mishap. That's one that sticks out to me because I was like, oh my God, that's my fault for sure. Like a Photoshop error. Then with the greens, I mean, I feel like our biggest mistake was just not having them in stock. People were so mad at me. We kept selling out constantly, but that also added to the hype. I'd say, okay, probably to me one of the biggest mistakes was developing protein bars. That was about a year ago now. And we've been working on the protein bars for a long time. Protein bars take a really long time to develop for whatever reason. It's hard to make 20 or 30 or 40 grams of protein palatable period and a story and have shelf life and not turn, get weird in the wrapper. And like people have no idea. Like making a tasty candy bar piece of cake, making a tasty protein bar. It's like magic. That's really hard. Exactly. And when we started formulating them, who we were as a brand was completely different than who we are now. And I've learned a lot since then. So what we established about our customer back then was they care about taste. They care about the look of it. They want a lot of protein. It was less about the ingredients. And we also trusted the manufacturer and food scientists that we were working with probably too much. So we developed this protein bar that looked gorgeous. It had like this icing on it and it was all colorful. And it took so long to develop. And by the time we were ready to launch, we were like, I don't know. This feels kind of like off-brand for us. We're now this wellness company. We're not so much gym anymore. But people were asking for it. They really, really wanted it and they tasted good. So we launched it and it did really well. But one of the ingredients was titanium dioxide, which I learned later on isn't the best and not something that I want to consume either. So we immediately were like, okay, I don't think we should sell this. This isn't on-brand for us. Were your consumers saying this or were you looking at this going, okay, this is a problem? Both. Okay. I started seeing it in the feedback and I went into my own research and I actually talked to Thomas DeLauer about it. And that was kind of what made me realize, okay, I really think that this bar was a mistake and we immediately pulled it off the website. So sometimes you try things. Now what's titanium dioxide for? Is that a preservative? I think so. And I think it was something that the manufacturers put in there because they were like, oh, this is necessary to keep it on the shelf wherever it may be. And when you're doing things like that, it was a learning lesson for me for sure to be way more diligent because the manufacturer's goals are not necessarily your goals. And that was a big learning process for me. Did you have a bunch of stock that you had to dump? I think we may have donated it. We sold a lot of it, which was good. But yeah, I think going out there and trying something like that and kind of realizing this isn't who we are, to me that stands out as a mistake. Kind of cool though, because of your personality, the way you've approached everything so far, I would imagine it actually just emboldened the brand too though because you come off as someone who's, I'm not professing that I'm the scientist, the doctor, the nutritionist, like I'm just sharing and I didn't know. Now I know. That's why I'm not selling anymore. And there's something for a lot of people that want to get into the social media business or be an influencer to learn from that like that. It's okay to make mistakes. You don't have to be perfect. I think where people make a mistake more often is trying to act like they're an expert or trying to act like they know everything and or always pursuing the money thing. Forget about integrity. They don't give a shit. And so I think, or I would imagine your audience probably forgave you and moved on from it. And if anything, probably just strengthened the brand. I hope so. And yeah, I think I hope that they know that that was something I took really seriously and the team took really seriously. And also that we read the feedback. Like I really do pay attention to what the customers want and what they're feeling, even flavors that we launch. Every time we launch a new greens flavor, we ask them what they are looking for. And now with a new product development, we're asking them what they want. What are they saying? People are really into classroom right now, which is interesting. They're also really into glutamine. Yeah. For gut health. You know what's funny about glutamine? What? So it's amino acid. Here's what's funny about the supplement industry. And you're too young to see this, but you will eventually. Is that there, there'll be a product that'll get popular, lose popularity, and then every, for whatever reason, 10 to 15 years. Resurrected. Yeah, that's like, branching amino acids, glutamine, arginine. You're going to see. Okay. G is going to do it again. Chromium is going to come back again. Like these are all things that'll like pop up. Like fashion. Yeah. It's so funny. Yeah. Yeah. Glutamines amino acids got some gut health benefits, but if you have bad gut health, taking glutamine might make it worse, depending on what's going on with your gut. You talk to a functional medicine practitioner. They'll, they'll break that down for you. Yeah. So, um, amino acid in skeletal muscle. Oh, and creatine. Creatine's big. Yeah. Creatine's different. That's a whole nother ballgame. Yeah. Do you take creatine? I used to when I was keto. What do you guys think of it? Should for sure. Because it's, there's actually more benefits coming out for overall health and wellness too. It's the most studied, uh, supplement there is. It's the, it's extremely safe. And it, uh, it's really healthy. People think, oh, it just builds muscle. Yeah, it does that, but it's also good for your brain, good for your heart, good for your liver. Uh, it's got anti-aging benefits. It's great for the mitochondria. It helps with insulin sensitivity. They're finding benefits with dementia. You're probably going to see it in, um, those care facilities where people go to retire. They'll probably start putting it in there. I mean, they're probably going to start putting it in formula for babies. Like it's, it's like legit. You know what I think, is women about creatine. The weight, the water. Yeah. I hear women say that. Okay. So here's what's, here, here's what's funny about that. If I were to dehydrate you, hold it in the muscle, that's what I didn't understand. If I, so there's difference between bloat and being well hydrated, well hydrated, it looks like healthy skin. Uh, your muscles feel nice and firm. Um, and you just look healthy. Okay. That's hydrated. Bloat is water under the skin. It's inflammation. It looks totally different. So if I were to dehydrate you right now, even if you, if you lost five pounds on the scale, you know, unless you were just tied to the scale and you didn't, you ignored everything else, you wouldn't, you wouldn't, you wouldn't think you look better. You wouldn't feel better. You'd have what we call in the body building world, the flat look. There's all the muscles. I used to have the flat look. Yeah. Because most people that are dieting are right. You're, you're carb depleted, you're low calorie. So you, we get this kind of flat look, which is also what kind of messes with people psychologically when they have that first big, huge meal afterwards. And they're like, what kind of look better? Yeah. And then they go, maybe I can't eat McDonald's every night. It really does. It fucks with a lot of clients because they've been on this diet for a while and they're flat. The muscle bellies are not filled up. And the same thing, this is in the same vein as the creatine. No, creatine pulls more water and so it holds more into the muscle. And so actually, in fact, when I was body building, I used to love to take creatine only really when I was cutting and dieting psychologically because it would fill my muscle bellies up. And so I wouldn't feel so small. Yeah. I felt like I looked better with the fuller muscle bellies because I was dieting. It was inevitable. I was going to look small while I was doing that. I feel like I should take it again. I'm going to tell you right now because these guys won't let me start us up on the company. It's the one we've tossed around. If you could really market creatine to young women, you'll crush. Because if they can get around the, ooh, I gained two pounds of water on the scale thing, which will happen, but it's hydration. It's not the same as blow. I'd like to see a mine pump creatine. I tell you what, you could steal our idea on this line because I don't see us doing it anytime soon is that we predicted that you would start to see creatine included in just basic health supplements and wellness supplements. So instead of just selling it as a standalone product, is putting it in like a greens juice or putting it in some sort of a health product and watch what it does. We've talked about doing greens with added benefits, like a glutamine, a creatine, things like that. I think you guys should do a creatine though. I would buy it. Really? All right. Is that why you brought her on? Yeah. This is it. Can you convince my person's going? So what about a lot of the stuff that you talked about that were kind of mistakes, which is really interesting for me to listen to because it's so different than all of our mistakes. I feel like we made a lot of mistakes. Like, I, you know, we thought email marketing was dead. You thought that social media had taken that over. So there's no reason to capture emails early on. With the podcast? Just, you know, just in general, when we were building the business. Literally the most profitable thing we thought was. Yeah. I just started my newsletter. Yeah. So we like, yeah, we weren't even capturing emails for the first two years of the business. And then to Sal's point, it's one of the most profitable things that we do is our email marketing. We were late to the party on the YouTube channel. We thought that the way you communicate on the YouTube channel would be the same way that we communicate on the podcast. I mean, we made so many mistakes. But you have to. Yeah. So what about those, like those types of mistakes? Did you just feel like you guys hit everything social media wise and website wise and email? Like how has that evolution been? And has that been challenging for you? Or do you feel like you and Greg just knew what to do in that area? Like what are some of the mistakes you made in that direction? I feel like social media did come pretty naturally to us, especially me. I feel like I really love connecting with people and I had a good, for some reason, I was always pretty comfortable, probably over sharing on camera. I'm not sure why. And I'm still that way. Like I probably have said 10 things I shouldn't have said on this microphone. I think I just don't think about who's on the other end necessarily. And I feel like my purpose is to share my pain and connect with other people. And I feel like I've had a good way of doing that. I would say, I mean, we're always learning. I think we were a little bit late to TikTok for Bloom and a large portion of our customers at GenZ. But you can catch up. Like you can always make up for lost time. I feel like there's never, never a wrong moment to start doing something. Or most of your podcast episodes, you interview people, right? Yes. Or do you episodes by yourself or? I do solos every now and again, but I don't, I don't love it. Have you had an encounter yet? I mean, you just, maybe you haven't yet, because you just started, but have you had a guest yet where you're like, oh, I don't, I don't like them. Yes. Do you not air it? Did you not air it? I won't post it. So have you had some that you didn't post? Yes. Wow. I have. Now did you, did you stop the podcast halfway through or did you let it finish? No, that's so rude. Imagine, I'm just like, oh, you're not, you're not it. Sorry. We've done that a couple of times. Oh. Yeah. Would I know by now if you did it? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. We would have let you know. There's gonna be no, yeah. We have like hand signals, you know, code words, one of them Adam literally stood up. Yeah. And he's like, okay, we can't air this. This isn't gonna work. Yeah. I mean, someone could be lovely in person and amazing. Get them on the microphone. Horrible. Yeah. I actually find, this will be interesting for your journey since you're one year in right now. We're normally wrong. Like rarely ever do I feel like the guests that we have coming in that they're going to be anything like I assume I feel like it's almost always the opposite. Like someone, there's been times where I'm like, I do not want any of this person. I'm like, whatever. They're awesome. And then meet them and they're like, oh my God, they're amazing. I love them, you know. Or somebody I'm like so excited, like, oh my God, I can't wait to meet them. And I meet them and I'm like, oh, what a let down. Don't you guys find that it's the people who are more famous that are less interesting? Yes. 100%. I feel bad saying that, but I feel like maybe they're media trained or something. Correct. And they just don't, they don't get candid with you. They don't share as much as you'd like. They're fake. They're not a good episode. Yeah. They've learned, they're great actors. Yeah. They've learned to present themself on camera really well. Doesn't work. And that's what's made them famous on social media or television, whichever, whichever medium they use. What I always found. You meet them in person and they're lame. Yeah. So what I found is interesting is you'll, you'll, you'll turn on the cameras and this persona comes out. You turn them off and they're weird or awkward or what happened to that person that was, you know, it's really like, like you said, yeah. And that doesn't work for podcasts because people know. It's too long. Yeah. It's, and people are listening and they're smart and they know when someone's being fake. So I, yeah, I've run into that issue. Do you guys find that even when it's like a really good conversation in person or in the room, you don't know how it's going to perform to the audience. Yeah. Yeah. There's conversations that we love that just did all right on the podcast. Same. Same. Yeah. And the ones that I love, but they're not as into. Well, that was a learning, you know, talking about huge lessons for us. And I don't know where this could potentially help you, but we early on ignored the most basic dumb episodes, right? So we used to say like, I'm not, we're not going to do an episode on how to get by big biceps or these most, these like super like basic, like, I really want to talk about that. I feel like those are your best episodes. That's what people, that's what we found was they performed the best. That's what got, that brought the bigger audience and that's what actually got shared. And that was the transition that we made to what we call our single topic episodes. We used to never do those. They were all kind of the same. We had this kind of free flowing dynamic where we would just talk about stuff and then eventually it evolved to the quaw where we answer questions, but we didn't never do these like dedicated days that were just these under an hour, very specific, very basic conversation. And we found that those bring the biggest amount of people over sort of chum in the water with that. Over here is kind of a little bit more where we like to talk in, you know, great detail. Well, we've been talking about fitness for 25 years. I was going to say, I run into that issue too, because I think when you've been doing fitness for a while and talking about it for a while, you don't want to talk about the basics anymore or you don't think it's important. That's right. But most people tuning in, that's all they want to hear. Correct. Like your glute episode you did recently. Yeah. Or your glute video. Yes. Great thumbnail. Oh, yeah. I appreciate it. I was like, that's going to do well. Those are Justin's glutes. Shiny and smooth. They're really nice. So any surprises, like where you had a guest come on and you're like, oh my God, any favorites? Ooh. I mean, liver king was an experience. I got him on right after the scandal. Oh, wow. And I was the first ever woman to interview him. And it was like one of my first episodes. Like I'd interviewed. Does he smell? Because he looks like he smells. Yeah. He apologized right away. Swear to God. Swear to God he walked in. He was like, so sorry for the smell. Are you serious? I couldn't really tell. Like I, I wasn't that affected by it. And liver queen came up, she came to, she came up to me and she was like, do you wear deodorant? And I was like, yeah, natural one. Do you? And she was like, no. So other people, no, I don't know. Wait. First of all, first of all. Okay, I have questions. They, they walked in with a 10 person crew, two security guys, like massive security guys. His chef arrived first, Chef Lionel. I thought he'd say everything raw. What the hell does chef do? Preparing the raw platter for me. Oh. I know. He arrived in a headdress, like massive headdress. Right. No shoes. I saw the car that he arrived in. It was a black van. The level of narcissism. Oh my God. So he is like celebrity status, 10 person crew, liver queens there. They have their entourage. I don't even know who all these people are. This is like probably my second interview ever. I didn't sleep. Like I was shizzing myself. I was so scared. And also I'm addressing the fact that he's been on steroids. Yeah. Which just happened. That just came out. Oh, I have to talk about it. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm not going to skip over that. Right. So I get in the room with him. He's quite short, by the way. I mean, I'm 5'10", but he's quite short. And I had to pull Greg into the interview. I was like, I'm not doing this by myself. There's no way. So Greg co-interviewed with me. And I'm sat with him. And I had to, first of all, eat raw liver, testicle. What else did I eat? Raw liver, testicle. Maybe there was kidney on there. There was some gross stuff. On the podcast. On the podcast. Was that part of the deal? Was that like, you come on, you have to try some of it? I knew I probably would have to because I obviously watched previous interviews and he makes everyone do it. I just blacked out. Oh, bone marrow. Raw bone marrow. Oh, raw? Oh, fuck. That was the most disgusting because it was like waxy. That's gross. Yeah, it was gross. So you just ate it on air. I had to. I'm not going to be like, no, I did it. I just blacked out. And just, I feel like I'm going to have to let him on the show now just so I can watch the circus. I feel like, Do you feel like he's as- We denied him way back when. You denied him? Yeah, yeah. He's a character. He's literally a circus act. He represents, I'm sorry. I should reserve judgment because I'm big on, like until I meet the person, I'm not going to, so, but his, let's just say his character is that he presents online is an exact representation of what inspired us to create a podcast to counter that bullshit. Yeah. To basically be like, this is. Yeah. So what would it be like on the podcast with us? Just us telling him, we hate what you do. You do kind of feel like you're talking to the character version. Yeah, of course. When you're recording, it's sort of like, is this really you? Off the mic, he's really nice. He like invited us to his ranch. He clearly like has something good in there, like some good intention, but it was- Did you get any of that in the interview or was it all just his character? I'm the liver king. He shared his story with bullying and sort of- Oh, this makes sense. Yeah. And his relationship with his father and things like that. So he did get kind of in the weeds with me and a bit more raw and vulnerable. No pun intended on the raw. But you know, who I feel like was more, a bit more genuine and a bit more like lives, like practices what they preach was Paul Saladino. Yeah. I felt like he- We like Paul. I like Paul a lot. Yeah, yeah. Even though we don't obviously agree with eating the way he eats all the time, we really like him. Agreed. Like I don't necessarily agree with everything that he says, but he came in really prepared, really nice. I feel like he's good at his job and he's good at delivering information, but he actually believes it too. He was like showing me his house in Costa Rica. He lives in like the middle of the forest. Yeah. Pretty amazing. And then he was even following up with me because at the time I was really struggling with acne and he was giving me some advice on how to use raw dairy to help my acne. Did it work? Um, no. Okay. But he was like- Butter on your face. It'll make you go away. No, he suggested tallow on my face actually. And he followed up with me on text and was like, how's your skin doing? Wow. No, super sweet guy. Okay. I really liked it. We like Paul a lot too. I feel like if you rub tallow or grease on your skin, you'll get more pimples. That's what I feel like. I'm never going to do that. Like that is my worst nightmare, honestly. Yeah. Like I get paranoid if I give him anything in my face. Yeah, let alone. But that tallow skincare is becoming a thing. Wow. Yeah. People are developing that. Interesting. It must have some pro, pro, you know, microbiome effects or something for it to- Do you guys use tallow? Have you used coconut oil before for your skin before? So I think the fats and the oils have some properties in it. Maybe. You know, here's a- I've done coconut oil on like my psoriasis so at that it actually tamps it down. So here's the deal. So coconut oil's got- Stay dry. Yeah. I do no skincare. I'm oily. So if I put any more oil on my skin, I'll slide right out of this chair. So I can't- Yeah. Yeah. I don't do anything like that. So it doesn't work for me. But I've used it on my son, my three year old, because he'll have a little bit of eczema and we've put coconut oil. Yeah. That helps. Yeah. So I would think it's in the same like category as that. That's what I would assume. I love cooking in it. Yeah. It's great to cook with. How nice that would be. Yeah. So any other like notable guests, so Paul Saldino, liver king, that's liver king's interesting name. People loved glucose goddess, Jesse. Who's that? I don't know how that is. No. Oh, you guys, she's huge. Oh, really? Glucose goddess? No. What's up with these names? Liver king, glucose goddess. Why don't we have a good name? I'm assuming she's into the like the like a neutral sense, right? The glucose monitor. Blood sugar balancing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's all about the order CGMs. in which you eat your food. So she's of the belief. Protein, fiber. Am I right? Am I hitting it right? I think she's greens protein. Okay. So fiber, then protein. And then carbs. And she's like, have your slice of cake, but have it after fats and protein. So she'll like eat olives. We actually teach this. We actually, I mean, we tell, that's actually one of the easiest tips that you can give a client who's trying to start their diet is simply just go eat your protein and greens first before you indulge in the carbs. By the way, it's way more, it's way more simple than. Yeah. Yes. It does help with glucose control and it just makes you, you just eat less. I'm always fascinated by how we don't know we are in the health of fitness space and we've been here for a long time. And I don't know who this is. And in magic, this presents three million followers. It's women. In a health wise. She's massive in the women's space and her episode did really, really well for me. Maybe we'll talk to her. And she does these like simple infographics and then also Dr. Mindy Pells. Okay. That is familiar. Yes. She actually went through my personal hormone test. My Dutch test. And was giving me suggestions on how to improve my hormones. Oh, wow. Yeah. I've done that a couple of times where I bring my own results and we talk about it. She was awesome. Are you, what did your hormone test say, by the way? So I used to make no hormones. Like I used to have horrible, I had high testosterone and no progesterone. So I used to be like a mess. Now they're good. I went on a whole healing journey. But I always had high testosterone and I had really bad acne like on the jawline area. PCOS? Any polycystic? I don't love that diagnosis because I feel like PCOS is just like a term they throw at you when you have a cluster of symptoms. Yeah, you're right. You know what I mean? I'm like, why do we need to put an You know what? There's a weird problem. It's like your cerebral bowel syndrome. Yeah. Like, oh, your IBS. Like your guts just messed up. Yeah. Oh, that's all. And I basically, yeah. Where do I go with this? That thanks. That helps me none. I also had like a mycotoxin overload. Oh. And I had heavy metals in my system. So I went on a full. Were you living in mold? I must have been at some point in my life. And then that's so sauna. Lots of sauna. Castor oil packs on the liver. I have a whole supplement regime. Hot water and lemon in the morning. Like all these, all these things started cooking in tallow and butter. I ate, I kind of went carnivore for a little bit there. Wow. That helps. What's been some of the most life-changing things that you've done on your health and journey? Like I'm sure there's been things that you're like, well, that was game changer for me or that radically changed things for me. That's a good question. For me, diet always moves the needle the most. And for me, my most recent journey was the acne journey and my blood work. Cause I was living a really healthy lifestyle. But in reality, I was doing things every day that probably weren't helping. I was definitely overworking myself. Like I was in the gym for an hour and a half. Too much. Hit every day like crazy. I've gotten like, I got way too lean at one point. Yeah. Mari, are you, you need to follow one of our programs. Should I? Yeah, 100%. What's going to happen? What's going to happen? You're going to feel incredible. I mean, you're the perfect person. Was Greg letting you do hit? Yeah. She didn't want him. I'm going to talk to him. He's like a slow mover. Yeah. So he's doing it all right. And he's letting you go around, run around doing hit. It's as a woman, especially when you represent your brand, it's like really easy to cross the line. Of course. You know what I mean? And I had a really healthy start in the industry. I did, but especially living in LA, everyone's so good looking. And you represent your own brand. LA sucks. I teated on the line of overrestricting. Of course. And I wanted the six pack all the time. And I went there and I came out of it quite quickly. Thank goodness. But like it was tough for me. You know what you were saying? We were talking about you guys are trying for a baby. And off air you said, oh, your house looks like a, would you call it say a baby factory? My house is a baby factory. Yeah. Which I'm like, what does that mean? I can explain. Yes. Please tell us. Sorry. Like nice music playing in the background. Or is it more about like hacks and shit? So Greg and I are like obsessed with health and fitness. So it's more hacks. Definitely like having a lot of sex as well. Yeah. You have to do that part. Yeah. That part's important. But on my end, I went on this hormone healing journey, clean that up. I take progesterone now, bio identical progesterone. So pill. Yes. Slow release. Cause I basically was making no progesterone. Did that make you feel way more relaxed and calm? Oh my God. I'm a different person. Okay. I, the lady was like, do you ever feel uptight? And I was like, oh, that's my whole personality. And now I feel like I'm humming, you know? Like I'm like chilling humming. Like I would never used to do that. I'm happy now. I know it's crazy. It makes such a big difference. Greg is, so he loves sauna and cold plunging. It's like many of us do nowadays. Yeah. Fully has like an ice pack on his balls. Right. In the underwear, in the sauna. Because it like, it gets, it burns up the semen. Oh gosh. Yeah. Lower just sperm counts. And that was just bone counts. He's keeping it cold like the rest of the body gets hot. Yeah. Small percentage. Yeah. Okay. He keeps them cold. And then I also, he's sitting like this all the time. Like super wide leg. And I'm like, what are you doing? He's like, oh, I'm letting the air out. What? He's like. You guys are checking all the boxes. Checking all the boxes. No alcohol. All right. Is he red light therapy the balls yet? Okay. Yeah. How am I walking my bedroom now for bed? He's laying on a PMF mat. Right. Red light glasses on the red light is here. And his whole like legs open completely naked. Red lighting the balls, the butthole. Yeah. No, we're in a movie. You're in the mood now. We're fully in baby making mode. I'm, I'm red lighting my face. The other day I was red lighting my face in front of any guys. Oh, you got, you got room for two. Lowers in front of me. I was like, you know what? Take it. Who cares about my skin? My time's up here. So yeah, everything we're doing is for fertility at this point. I'm tracking my ovulation. I'm doing the LH strip tests. We're trying to have, it's a whole thing. Wow. Sex twice a day. Okay. So go on a bulk. Yeah. And stop exercising so much. Yeah. That's it. Literally. Okay. When you say stop exercising so much. How about you just follow, maybe just give her, just give her a program. Okay. Let me ask you a question. How many days a week are you working out structured? Let's say right now four or five. Okay. So bring it down to three, maybe two of strength training. And then walk. Just kind of make sure you're walking like you normally do. Cause you, you already lead a high stress, even though you enjoy what you do and there's a purpose behind it. Yeah. You're busy. You're obviously very busy. You're a hundred employees. So strength train twice a week. Okay. Make sure you're moving, which you probably already are. Twice a week. I feel like I'm going to shrink. No, you'll get, this is how you'll know it's working. You're going to get stronger. Go into calorie surplus. And that'll be the best possible thing you could do for fertility. Period. End of story. This is like so difficult for some reason. Because, Of course. I wouldn't take you from your four or five all the way down the two. I would go to the three, because the program's written to follow either two or three days a week. I would pull you to three first and then show you. Well, I did this Adam, because I knew she would go three. Now that you said three, she's going to go four. No, there is no four. If she follows the program, she's only got three to go. She can only have an option of three, two or one. So you start with three. And then at that, I would convince you to already start to see and feel differences. And then I'd be like, Hey, let's try two and see if you're still feel okay. There's a right dose. Moving down. Moving down there. We're always trying to convey. But just follow it, follow anabolic and then throw yourself in a little bit of a, a little bit of a bulk. Yeah. So if you're down low twenties, body fat percentage, maybe less, get your body fat up to mid twenties, go in a bulk, get stronger. Your body's going to be like, hell yeah, we can have a baby. But if you're, if you're working hard, you've got kind of this low level of background stress. You're also working out hard. And you're in a calorie deficit. And you're in a calorie deficit or maintenance. Cause your body, it needs to have extra either number one to support the baby. But you're also sending a signal to your body that says, I have enough food to support this baby when it's out of my environment. That's to be right. Not just in me, but out of me. Okay. Cause your body, even if you eat in a calorie surplus, but you're so stressed that your body's like, we don't want to bring a baby into this world because it's already so stressful that there's no way this baby will survive. So your body, and you might not survive. You're, you're baking a cake with, you're trying to bake a cake with half the ingredients and a cold oven. Yeah. Yeah. Go on a bulk. Yeah. Bump. Do you know how many calories you eating a day? No. I don't know right now. I'd say maybe 2000. Yeah. I literally seriously go up five, about 500 above where you're at, three to 500. Okay. Lift three days a week. Don't do any cardio. Just like your normal walking. I'd choose it from healthy fats. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this sounds really fun. You know, I had an avocado in there or add some, you know, Oh my God. Fattier beef. Yeah. That does sound fun. Yeah. I wouldn't have sex twice a day. Well, I guess you have it twice a day. Well, you know, your fertility expert will tell you, that was Katrina and I's problem. They said we were having too much sex. One of the hardest things that we had to do was actually refrain for three to four days. You know, it's on our part. It's our part. So it's like on our part that they said like, yeah, she went in there thinking, we're a champion because we were twice a day type of deal all the time. Yeah. And the lady's like, Oh, it'd be more ideal if he waited like three or four days. She was like three or four days, like we'll break up over some shit like that. And so she's like, no, I mean, it would be more ideal at least try and stretch. Adam, we get real weird in here. Yeah. We were having the frequency was too much. So, you know, it's crazy when you actually try to have a baby. It's like, why is this so hard? People get pregnant accidentally all the time. And they're drinking on drugs. We're red lighting are a freaking genitalia. You know, something that also helps. So you're timing, right? So since your time in a perfect world, when you're at peak ovulation, he's refrain from sex from you for two or three days before that. So if you know, you're getting ready to hit peak time to get pregnant by your strips and stuff. Yeah. Ideally, you guys wouldn't have had sex for two or three days before that. So then when you do, yeah, you get the full. Yeah, you're at prime. And then you're, then you're versus if you guys just had it yesterday and then now you're primed to do it. And that was our issue. We were actually, because we were tracking all that stuff. And like what we were seeing was, we would have sex, this amazing sex. And then all of a sudden it would be the next day. It would be ideal. We just, and of course we would again, but you're not maximizing the potential. I didn't expect to get a fertility advice. I didn't expect to give it. No, but the, so the bulk is a big one. Okay. We've all experienced this with our female clients that would struggle with fertility, but they wouldn't come to us for four fertility. It was more like, I don't feel good or whatever. And eight out of 10 times, you have to, you have the main creaster calories because they've been eating too little. They've been overtraining. And then it's like, I can't tell you how many times it would happen where I finally convinced them to do it. They'd be like, Oh my God, I feel so good. And then a month later, I'm pregnant. And it's, you know, it's annoying. Like Greg gets to stay jacked, six pack doing his thing. And I have to get overweight. You know what I mean? You're going to get pregnant. What do you think? He like looks the best he's ever looked. He's, he's really into rocking right now. Oh my God. He's a psycho. He'll go rocking for like miles. He's insane. This has been, this has been really fun, Mari and I really wish you guys all the luck in the world. And I do hope you follow one of our programs because I think it'll help you a lot. Can you send it to me? Yeah. I'll give you any program, but I think maps on a ball will be the one that you'll get the best results out of for sure. Okay. And then if you guys have a baby, I mean, you can name it. So you don't have to. I'll leave it. Mind pump. Mind pump. Baby pump. I like that. That's a ring. Yeah. No, I appreciate you. I appreciate what you do, Mari. Yeah. Thanks for coming on and hopefully we continue to stay in contact. So. Thank you guys. I'll look out for the career team. Yeah. Thank you.